WoW Vs WAR

[digitalblue]

So I've seen a few of the online trailors for WAR and I've played WoW Fairly extensivly. And quite frankly from what I've seen in WAR I'm not too excited about.

First of all the graphics are earily similar. Which makes it seem as if you will be playing just another WoW. Granted I'm sure the UI will be vastly differant however I'm afraid that the feel of that game will be the same. IE it's another fantasy MMORPG just a differant setting. While I'm sure there will be a lot of people to try it out to be the First to do anything on someting new or the die hard Warhammer fans out there. I have a feeling that it will still not be a rival to what WoW is. I think it would have been better if they had the setting in Warhammer 40k. That way it would have been a whole new dimension for players to experiance.

But that's my 2 bits what do you all think?

[Ten19]

From what I hear (though I'm not in the beta...yet) WAR is more about PvP and RvR (realm vs realm) content than about PvE, which WoW, in my opinion, excels at.

I'm still very curious about WAR and will definitely be checking it out, but I'm not convinced it's the WoW-killer everyone makes it out to be when comparing apples to apples.

[Chaos Machine]

warhammers graphical style is true to the series, if anything wow is ripping off them since warhammer has been around since the 80s, at any rate warhammer is a pvp centric game it intends to compete with wow on that front, so far from what i have seen it is doing a pretty good job.

[digitalblue]

Well if that is the case then I hope they can balance well. As far as PvP when you have a multitude of classes is balance, which Blizzard has learned the hard way, and is still struggeling with.

[Chaos Machine]

Well if that is the case then I hope they can balance well. As far as PvP when you have a multitude of classes is balance, which Blizzard has learned the hard way, and is still struggeling with.

classes are being balanced with pvp in mind first, pve is a tertiary concern for better or worse =/

[Mr. Lake]

I'm still waiting for the MMO based on Gilligan's Island.

[Drinking_Buddy]

I don't see WOW and WAR being similar in graphic style. I see WOW style being more cartoonish and stylish, ranging from high fanasty to low fanasty.


From the screenshots I've seen of WAR, its realistic and dark, with gothic influence. There not supposed to look the same.

WAR hasn't really grabbed me yet, I know that its focusing on RvR and PvP, but I haven't seen anything that grabs me.

[digitalErich]

Well, recent Blizzard decisions in some of the patches seem to imply that Arenas are Blizzard's new PvP darling (forsaking and impacting almost every other form of PvP) and that doesn't really gel with my tastes when I think MMO and PvP.

I'm excited for this PvP world zone in Lich to see if this gives me what I want, but if that doesn't measure up and WoW keeps going the way it's going, WAR's large scale PvP is going to get more and more attractive.

I'll always be falling in and out of WoW's PVE game, but there is room for a WoW clone to out-WoW on the PVP front. I'm guessing that is what WAR is going for.

[asimonk]

warhammers graphical style is true to the series, if anything wow is ripping off them since warhammer has been around since the 80s, at any rate warhammer is a pvp centric game it intends to compete with wow on that front, so far from what i have seen it is doing a pretty good job.

It's not exactly a state secret that the Warcraft universe was heavily, heavily influenced by the Warhammer universe. That being said, its somewhat ironic that WoW made a better Warhammer game than Warhammer online.

The only people I have seen speak highly of the game are those that only have access to IGN previews.

[aileron]

The only people I have seen speak highly of the game are those that only have access to IGN previews.

So the only people that speak highly of the game are those that have played it? *gasp*

[Lint of Death]

It's not exactly a state secret that the Warcraft universe was heavily, heavily influenced by the Warhammer universe. That being said, its somewhat ironic that WoW made a better Warhammer game than Warhammer online.

The only people I have seen speak highly of the game are those that only have access to IGN previews.

What a great idea, let's judge games not just based on the final version, not even based on playing the beta, but instead on those beta testers who disrespect the system enough to complain about the unfinished game.

[Heretic Machine]

So the only people that speak highly of the game are those that have played it? *gasp*

You know the game is in beta, right?

[aileron]

You know the game is in beta, right?

That was kind of my point...

[Khash]

Mythic has been pretty vocal about WAR being the spiritual successor to Dark Age of Camelot. Man, I can't tell you how many hours I spent playing DAoC. Best PvP system I've played in any MMORPG. Sure, it had its problems but it beat the crap out of WoWs sorry excuse for PvP.

[mightbe]

The customizable UI in WoW has made my gaming there so much more enjoyable. I think the next game I get this much into better have a solid fucking interface or allow the same level of customization.

[tacitus]

If you have any interest in WAR, check out pcgamer magazine this month.

[maverick106]

The customizable UI in WoW has made my gaming there so much more enjoyable. I think the next game I get this much into better have a solid fucking interface or allow the same level of customization.

Here here. I was a player of EQ, then DAoC for years, then WoW, and I don't think I could ever take a step back in interface customization from WoW. It really enhanced the experience.

[asimonk]

So the only people that speak highly of the game are those that have played it? *gasp*

Um, no. Everyone I have heard from that are in the beta do not think highly of it. Granted, there is a bit of hyperbole in that statement. I'm sure there are people in beta that actually enjoy it. At the same time, 50 Cent: Bulletproof sold 2 million copies.

[Kalar]

Well if that is the case then I hope they can balance well. As far as PvP when you have a multitude of classes is balance, which Blizzard has learned the hard way, and is still struggeling with.

In my opinion, a skill system (Ultima Online, EvE, Ect...) is the best way to go for a player vs player environment.

[ShivaX]

Well, recent Blizzard decisions in some of the patches seem to imply that Arenas are Blizzard's new PvP darling (forsaking and impacting almost every other form of PvP) and that doesn't really gel with my tastes when I think MMO and PvP.

You and damn near everyone else.

Largest player base of any online game, lets put a handful of them in a shoebox that defys all the lore of the world and common sense and have our horribly imbalanced classes run around a pole for 5-10 minutes. This will be the focus of everything PvP. If it bleeds into PvE (in this PvE game) well tough crap, we have eSport sponsors to suck off.

One of the best things about WAR is that it has an uncaring evil empire behind it that will not allow anything to compromise its lore for any reason. Whereas Blizzard owns their own lore and was more than happy to whore it out without a second thought.

I'm not even a huge PvP person. I got into WoW for the PvE aspect of it, PvP was a kinda fun distraction. Now PvP is everything and they made it the worst grind in the game as an added bonus - do an Honor grind that reminds you of Furbolg rep only less fun every season. While PvE became fairly friendly to every spec of every class, Arenas have forced every class into a single specfic spec.

I'm sorry the war in Warcraft doesn't make me think of 6 dudes in a box all of the same side killing each other for gear that would make gods tremble (somehow a bunch of goblin just happen to have these things in unlmited numbers). Warcraft should be huge battles and armies, not tiny groups of gladiators. If nothing else WAR will at least try to get that right and honestly for a lot of people trying is enough anymore. That they have superior lore and people who admire and respect that lore backing them up is just icing.

[Vandenh]

The customizable UI in WoW has made my gaming there so much more enjoyable. I think the next game I get this much into better have a solid fucking interface or allow the same level of customization.

This will be in WAR.

[digitalblue]

You and damn near everyone else.

Largest player base of any online game, lets put a handful of them in a shoebox that defys all the lore of the world and common sense and have our horribly imbalanced classes run around a pole for 5-10 minutes. This will be the focus of everything PvP. If it bleeds into PvE (in this PvE game) well tough crap, we have eSport sponsors to suck off.

One of the best things about WAR is that it has an uncaring evil empire behind it that will not allow anything to compromise its lore for any reason. Whereas Blizzard owns their own lore and was more than happy to whore it out without a second thought.

I'm not even a huge PvP person. I got into WoW for the PvE aspect of it, PvP was a kinda fun distraction. Now PvP is everything and they made it the worst grind in the game as an added bonus - do an Honor grind that reminds you of Furbolg rep only less fun every season. While PvE became fairly friendly to every spec of every class, Arenas have forced every class into a single specfic spec.

I'm sorry the war in Warcraft doesn't make me think of 6 dudes in a box all of the same side killing each other for gear that would make gods tremble (somehow a bunch of goblin just happen to have these things in unlmited numbers). Warcraft should be huge battles and armies, not tiny groups of gladiators. If nothing else WAR will at least try to get that right and honestly for a lot of people trying is enough anymore. That they have superior lore and people who admire and respect that lore backing them up is just icing.

I second this notion. PvP Arenas have ruined much of WoW for me as well as some of the battlegrounds. It's all well and good to have some rewards for PvP which I'm sure is what that whole part of the game was derived from however it has taken a lot out of PvE and Raids. A lot of guilds now expext thier members to do arenas for the better gear so they can do the end game instances. And for me that takes out 90% of the fun. Grinding honor is def not fun. Which is one of the reasons I was taking a look at WAR.

[nonchalance]

YOne of the best things about WAR is that it has an uncaring evil empire behind it that will not allow anything to compromise its lore for any reason.

Blood Bowl ring a bell?

[Karmakin]

WAR will live or die not on the strength of its PvP, but the strength of its Public Quest system.

[mightbe]

Games Workshop is known for not supporting product lines, pressuring stores into ordering large amounts of stock, and changing rules to sell more models.

To say that they are "uncompromising" I would say is very inaccurate.

Does this mean I dislike their product? No. But It think they could be better stewards of their fan base and not simply rush to wring every dollar they can as quick as they can.

And I fucking love me some blood bowl.

[Vandenh]

A lot of guilds now expext thier members to do arenas for the better gear so they can do the end game instances

Strange as PvP gear usually is pretty bad for PvE. These are probably guild that have a hard time doing end game stuff anyway.

[nonchalance]

And I fucking love me some blood bowl.

Oh, fuck yes. The point was that BB does kinda compromise the WHFB lore.
Then again, so do the Lizardmen. And the Chaos Dwarves, when they turned up. And whatever new armies they've introduced since I quit the hobby probably do too.

[mightbe]

Strange as PvP gear usually is pretty bad for PvE. These are probably guild that have a hard time doing end game stuff anyway.

It's an easy way to fill in the holes, gear up alts.

And there's not a ton of gear that's required to clear ZA and that will quickly get you geared for t6 instances.

[HotCod]

Strange as PvP gear usually is pretty bad for PvE. These are probably guild that have a hard time doing end game stuff anyway.

the best non high end raid swords for a rouge for PvE high end raiding are from the PvP arena set... well at lest it was the last time i was playing. There is for some classes HUGE cross over that makes some of the PvP loot the best gear for starting the end game raid stuff.

I had a good list of stuff i was gearing up to get to set me up for my first raid stuff with the guild before i got bored and stopped playing again (which is odd given that i'm half an xp bar from 70...) and i had to make a choice to gimp my self on the swords beacuse i don't like the arena.

[Vandenh]

the best non high end raid swords for a rouge for PvE high end raiding are from the PvP arena set

Offhand indeed. Mainhand probably not so.

I am playing in a serious end-game guild and PvP geared players are not accepted as PvE raiders. Than being said, you are right that there are gaps that can be filled with PvP gear (just not a lot).

It is also true that some guild get PvP gear before going into Kara... that probably makes sense. I would not really recommend going into ZA with arena gear ;) It might work... but better to gear up on PvE gear.

[everar]

I have followed WAR very closely, and from what they have recently been sharing with us, we are seeing more and more of what they can do with shading and rendering, and they are currently working on character differentiation appearance-wise, etc. That's right. They saved customization for last. So I'm prepared to be dazzled, and I have my hopes up for when they finally include the high-end graphics into beta with character aesthetics.

They will have their own flavor apart from WoW, despite the obvious similarities between the franchises (zerg = tyranids!). I think we'll see more shading and it will make more of a darker feel.

[ShivaX]

Oh, fuck yes. The point was that BB does kinda compromise the WHFB lore.
Then again, so do the Lizardmen. And the Chaos Dwarves, when they turned up. And whatever new armies they've introduced since I quit the hobby probably do too.

Well Blood Bowl is in its own little corner.
The difference with Blood Bowl is that it isn't real in the context of the universe.
Its a spoof of the universe in basically every way. And I love it.

That said the actual lore of the Warhammer world is very detailed. They've done some retconning to sort out stuff from early on, but its mostly solid and makes sense.

Blizzard lore changes because they need to have an expansion come out and you need to kill crap. I mean if Blizzard was running Warhammer lore we'd be forming raids to kill Khorne... as Khornites. Khornites with magic. Meanwhile the Elves would all be fighting each other in duels in an Arena in the Chaos Wastes for Skaven Arena Masters.

[Primus]

I know it was beta, but if the footage I have seen of WAR is any indication it looks soooo fucking terrible.

[digitalErich]

While I don't think you can say, as a blanket statement, that PvP gear is or is not good for PvE, there are examples I can think of where PvP gear might make certain PvE encounters easier, especially with what I'm seeing of the Season 4 gear, what with the shift in focus almost completely over to +Stam for every. freaking. class. An easy example would be PvE encounters where you decide to Warlock-tank.

[Ghostbear]

Sigh...stupid NDA

[Vadras]

While I don't think you can say, as a blanket statement, that PvP gear is or is not good for PvE, there are examples I can think of where PvP gear might make certain PvE encounters easier, especially with what I'm seeing of the Season 4 gear, what with the shift in focus almost completely over to +Stam for every. freaking. class. An easy example would be PvE encounters where you decide to Warlock-tank.

It's sad, but true that many classes can excel in end-game raids by using PVP gear. While this is not true for every class, many of the DPS based classes can get away with it and even some healing classes. Tanks in the game really can't use the PVP gear for tanking as you need stats such as defense, avoidance stats, and stamina... not resilience.

That all being said, the PVE gear will always be superior to the PVP gear for every class for raiding.... the differences are just minor for some classes and major for others.

[sparkfizt]

I like WoW PVP, especially with the recent changes in 2.4. Arena has it's issues but I'm glad it exists, it provides blizzard a very focused environment to examine class balance. I personally havent taken part very much in the arena, while it's interesting I generally have more fun in the BG's.

I'm very curious about WAR but I'm also very skeptical, I played DAOC the summer before WoW came out and absolutely hated it. The game may have been fun at launch but it's extremely inaccessable to new players. Buffbots, class balance (rock paper scissors to the extreme), and side imbalances made is very not fun for me. Not to mention DAOC's pvp has an extreme hole in RVR, that being alarm clock raids. These seemed to happen pretty frequently as you'd go to bed one night only to find your side losing all their territory and relic by morning(the strong get stronger! yay!).

Blizzard stuck with 9 classes and was rebuked for it when they launched. People claimed they did'nt have enough compared to all the other games at the time. But they did this because it's a hell of a lot simpler to balance for 9 rather than 20. Which has me worried in WAR because they have a jillion classes that are basicaly copies of each other but they're trying to make em somwhat unique.

I'm very interested in WAR but i'll hold off on getting excited until we have more concrete evidence that it's going to come through.

[Wyrm]

I want this to be good, but it's really just icing on the cake.

The Warhammer 40K MMO is all I care about now.

[Vyzov]

Sigh...stupid NDA

I know! Are you at least playing the beta again?

[Ghostbear]

I know! Are you at least playing the beta again?

yes, yes I am.

[ShivaX]

But they did this because it's a hell of a lot simpler to balance for 9 rather than 20.

And they still couldn't pull it off. Of course every class has 3 specs and in almost every case a different spec is a completely different character, so you're looking at 27 classes really. Given that two of them are pure PvE tanks, thats down to 25. So WAR's 24 classes isn't that far off of WoW, except that all of them are focused on PvP whereas WoW's classes have always been PvE focused first and PvP as an after thought.

[silv]

You and damn near everyone else.

Largest player base of any online game, lets put a handful of them in a shoebox that defys all the lore of the world and common sense and have our horribly imbalanced classes run around a pole for 5-10 minutes. This will be the focus of everything PvP. If it bleeds into PvE (in this PvE game) well tough crap, we have eSport sponsors to suck off.

One of the best things about WAR is that it has an uncaring evil empire behind it that will not allow anything to compromise its lore for any reason. Whereas Blizzard owns their own lore and was more than happy to whore it out without a second thought.

I'm not even a huge PvP person. I got into WoW for the PvE aspect of it, PvP was a kinda fun distraction. Now PvP is everything and they made it the worst grind in the game as an added bonus - do an Honor grind that reminds you of Furbolg rep only less fun every season. While PvE became fairly friendly to every spec of every class, Arenas have forced every class into a single specfic spec.

I'm sorry the war in Warcraft doesn't make me think of 6 dudes in a box all of the same side killing each other for gear that would make gods tremble (somehow a bunch of goblin just happen to have these things in unlmited numbers). Warcraft should be huge battles and armies, not tiny groups of gladiators. If nothing else WAR will at least try to get that right and honestly for a lot of people trying is enough anymore. That they have superior lore and people who admire and respect that lore backing them up is just icing.

Whoah, someone call the rant police.

Some classes are pigeon-holed into 1 or 2 good specs, but in general there are atleast 2. Disc and Shadow Priests are viable, Resto and Ele shamans are viable. Couple different mage specs, Aff and SL/SL are viable... etc..

Also, large scale PvP is in general, 'not fun'.

[ShivaX]

Whoah, someone call the rant police.

Some classes are pigeon-holed into 1 or 2 good specs, but in general there are atleast 2. Disc and Shadow Priests are viable, Resto and Ele shamans are viable. Couple different mage specs, Aff and SL/SL are viable... etc..

Also, large scale PvP is in general, 'not fun'.

In Arena? No.

Warriors: Arms
Druids: Resto
Paladins: Holy (Ret passable)
Mages: Frost
Warlocks: SL/SL
Priest: Disc
Hunter: MM
Shaman: Resto (Elem passable)
Rogue: ShS

For every class there is ONE spec. Two classes have two specs, but they're far from the most effective or common. For mages and hunters even their "PvP spec" is generally crap. Most classes only have a role in 5v5. Since 2v2/3v3 is by far the easier way to get free crap everyone does that.

[Citizen Philip]

I left WoW 2 years ago because their pvp was garbage. I am looking foward to WAR along the same line as Planetside a pvpmmo. Perhaps not exactly like Planetside, but a focus on what is the most fun, players killing players. The fact that your guild can carry war-banners with aoe buffs with your custom guild symbol - sounds just about right.

I've already pre-ordered. :P

And at the same time, how can expect any sort of genuine comparison between a game that hasn't even been released vs a game that is near 3.5 years old? Silly.

[asimonk]

In Arena? No.

Warriors: Arms
Druids: Resto
Paladins: Holy (Ret passable)
Mages: Frost
Warlocks: SL/SL
Priest: Disc
Hunter: MM
Shaman: Resto (Elem passable)
Rogue: ShS

For every class there is ONE spec. Two classes have two specs, but they're far from the most effective or common. For mages and hunters even their "PvP spec" is generally crap. Most classes only have a role in 5v5. Since 2v2/3v3 is by far the easier way to get free crap everyone does that.

Are you trying to claim that the people behind DAoC have a better grasp of class balance?

I mean, really?

As for WoW, saying every class has "ONE SPECZOMG" is kind of, I don't know, dumb? For no reason than, given a specific context, only then, you may be right. Are we talking pvp? BGs? Arena? Raiding? The class system in WoW has the most flexibility I have seen thus far in MMOs. Gear notwithstanding.

[ShivaX]

For no reason than, given a specific context, only then, you may be right. Are we talking pvp? BGs? Arena? Raiding? The class system in WoW has the most flexibility I have seen thus far in MMOs. Gear notwithstanding.

Well since you're quoting me, you could maybe like... read what you quoted and the context of the entire thread.

[sparkfizt]

And they still couldn't pull it off. Of course every class has 3 specs and in almost every case a different spec is a completely different character, so you're looking at 27 classes really. Given that two of them are pure PvE tanks, thats down to 25. So WAR's 24 classes isn't that far off of WoW, except that all of them are focused on PvP whereas WoW's classes have always been PvE focused first and PvP as an after thought.

I'll have to disagree. It's arguable that you can view WoW as having 27 classes after you take into account different spec options. The viability of the different specs vary a good bit between classes but most every spec has a role. The complaints come because that role may not fit all activities, such as a prot pally in pvp vs a ret/holy pally.

WAR has 24 classes + tactics(talents) to further specialize them, and these classes are not symmetric. It's admirable not to be symmetric, WoW started that way and decided the headache of shaman vs paladin wasn't worth it.

PVP always has been a design consideration for WoW, how they handled pvp is what originally got me into the game. I had been playing AO and even a little DAOC and came to desire some decently fair pvp battles because both of those were plagued with side(and class) imbalances. The battlegrounds were always an original goal of WoW, but it took a while for them to make it into the game, and for the honor system to really be figured out. With the current honor system + arena + season gear rotations I think they've got a pretty good pvp game. They also stand to improve it quite a bit with lessons learned from BC, they're adding a pvp zone dedicated to a castle siege.

just look me up on the armory, sparkfizt on blackrock. I'm a decent example of how you can be successful and outside the box. My arena team ranking isn't stellar but it's also a duo of what people consider to be one of the most gimped class/specs in the game. We've just recently started playing again and with some practice I think we can push higher. If only they'd given us a mortal strike effect in 2.4..... 75% of those losses would be wins. We have a really hard time with war+druid.

[silv]

In Arena? No.

Warriors: Arms
Druids: Resto
Paladins: Holy (Ret passable)
Mages: Frost
Warlocks: SL/SL
Priest: Disc
Hunter: MM
Shaman: Resto (Elem passable)
Rogue: ShS

For every class there is ONE spec. Two classes have two specs, but they're far from the most effective or common. For mages and hunters even their "PvP spec" is generally crap. Most classes only have a role in 5v5. Since 2v2/3v3 is by far the easier way to get free crap everyone does that.

There are plenty of viable 5v5 specs, including shadow for priests. I have my armored netherdrake as shadow, for instance. Do you?

[Gambit]

Balance is the best spec for druid for pvp - Team Boomkin anyone?!

[bub64882]

Balance is the best spec for druid for pvp - Team Boomkin anyone?!

LAWLZ!!!!!

[Abash Alarmist]

Do you like good games? If so, go with WoW. WAR is a mediocre pile of shit. I will surprised if there are more than 10k people playing it in 6 months.

[Sly Marbo]

Do you like good games? If so, go with WoW. WAR is a mediocre pile of shit. I will surprised if there are more than 10k people playing it in 6 months.

I have a crazy idea. Why don't we wait until it's released to pass judgement.

[Ghostbear]

I have a crazy idea. Why don't we wait until it's released to pass judgement.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ghostbear1/ideasintriguemejz3.jpg

[roboninja]

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g302/ghostbear1/ideasintriguemejz3.jpg

This is my new favorite forum pic. I have used the quote several times, but the pic is better. Plus, I agree with your agreement :)

[Primus]

The beta footage I saw looked painful.

And if this game doesn't have a skill system, PVP will be more of the same.

[Kem0sabe]

Game simply is geting too many beta leaks of an unfinished product, it can generare considerable bad word of mouth, as we are seeing now.

The recent patches to the WAR beta have done a pretty good job of polishing the game. I think that they will meet their target release date and launch before the WoW expansion.

Personaly, i have the game pre.ordered and im confident it will be a blast to play. Till then, i have AoC to tidy me over, and the LotRO expansion as well.

[TeeCakes]

In Arena? No.

Warriors: Arms
Druids: Resto
Paladins: Holy (Ret passable)
Mages: Frost
Warlocks: SL/SL
Priest: Disc
Hunter: MM
Shaman: Resto (Elem passable)
Rogue: ShS


There's more than just one spec, actually. As a rogue, I used to play around with combat specs in PvP, you have no idea how easy it is to defeat uber-Warriors/Hunters with Riposte, combat potency, Adren. Rush, and knowing how to successfully stun-lock.

Versus a shadowstep spec which gets these non-squishy enemies down to max 50% health before they destroy you/make you retreat after you're forced to pop a Vanish. Seriously, shadowstep specs are for cheap kills on injured enemies, but going toe-to-toe in duels is Combat all the way.

[Kem0sabe]

Gota love Mythic's patch notes, check out this bit about the most excelent class of Squig Herder ;)

Squig Herder

Squig Herder Summary:
Goblins aren't exactly known for their fortitude or strength, so the clever Squig Herder uses a pack of squigs to do the hard work for him while he stands safely away and unleashes a rain of deadly arrows.


Squig Herder Mechanic:
Through a combination of poking, prodding, yelling, and throwing raw meat, a Squig Herder has managed to...well...not exactly 'tame' a pack of squigs, but certainly get them to at least run when he stabs them. The Squig Herder has the means to deal with any combat situation through the wide array of squigs at his disposal - and sometimes, they are quite literally at his disposal, as his pets have an unsettling habit of being eaten or exploding.


Squig Herder Masteries:

Path Of Big Shootin'
*A specialist in this path is more than happy to stand far, far back from the fight and let his squig pets distract the enemies while he peppers them with arrows from a safe distance. Those who dismiss Goblins for their small stature quickly learn not to underestimate the Squig Herder's powerful bow and keen aim, and many an enemy's final dying thought has been that perhaps they should've paid more attention to the Goblin than to the squig.

Path Of Quick Shootin'
*A clever master of this path uses the Goblins' inherent tendencies towards twitching and running in his favor, and has learned to quickly snap off bow shots while moving around. While he pays for this mobility at the cost of range, as he can't shoot as far without taking the time to stop and brace his bow, the speed and flexibility that he gains ensures that he can always stay out of harm's reach.

Path Of Stabbin'
*Some goblins are simply more bloodthirsty than others, and a master of this path prefers to use his bow simply as a means to weaken and hinder his enemy, allowing him to move in and dispatch them quickly with his crude yet brutal spear. Fighting side-by-side with his squig pets, the Squig Herder who selects this path is always gleeful to find himself in the middle of a messy fight.

[Citizen Philip]

Gota love Mythic's patch notes, check out this bit about the most excelent class of Squig Herder ;)

Tsk tsk! That's a breach of NDA.

[Akela]

I am surprised with the ammount of "It is just a WoW clone"..ness floating around.

From what I have seen/read and first hand experienced (EDIT: I am not in the beta. I am referring to WoW and DAoC) WoW will be as far from Warhammer as DAoC is from WoW.

Allow me to elaborate: Simularities will be noted, but those are common to any MMO, since it is....An MMO set in "Zap and Slash" setting! Elements such as Levels, entire "doll" full of possible equipment, abilities that are considered overpowered, hundreds of elitist jerks, and just as many very vocal individuals that essentially only want a single class (I wan't to have an equal chance to beat anything!).

None of it began with WoW, DAoC or WAR, none of it will end with those games.

As far as WH vs 40k. Something is being made. Just not by Mythic.

And for "it looks and "feels" (quotes since 99% of Us Don't actually know) like WoW. WAR is not a "Not quite WoW", as some seem to think. It is WoW that is a game set in the world that is "not quite as Warhammer as originally intended", as people have stated previously.

[Mason]

I'm very curious about WAR but I'm also very skeptical, I played DAOC the summer before WoW came out and absolutely hated it. The game may have been fun at launch but it's extremely inaccessable to new players. Buffbots, class balance (rock paper scissors to the extreme), and side imbalances made is very not fun for me. Not to mention DAOC's pvp has an extreme hole in RVR, that being alarm clock raids. These seemed to happen pretty frequently as you'd go to bed one night only to find your side losing all their territory and relic by morning(the strong get stronger! yay!).
If you'd played it a while longer, you'd have seen that it wasn't all bad. The class balance was horrible (I know, I played a bolt caster, and they are probably still broken), admittedly.

But the RvR concept was solid. The thing to remember is that there were three realms, and any dirty tricks were accessible to all of them. Taking relics is easy, but defending them gets progressively harder as you acquire more, since your NPC defenses start to disappear and the other two realms can gang up on you. To maintain a relic disparity, you have to motivate your realm better than the other guys.

This caused some interesting things to emerge in-game: politics and leadership. Realm relations were a deep and complex thing, and there were always rumors of tacit or explicit cross-realm alliances and the resulting back-stabbing. On my server, people weren't constantly scheduling the AM raids; sneaky shit was rare, since it inconvenienced everyone involved and inevitably provoked responses in kind, but when it occured it could flare up into epic conflicts. Prisoner's dilemma type stuff.

Since winning a fight meant getting more of your guys on the field and sticking to a battle plan, and it was up to guild and alliance leaders to make that happen. This actually made these groups meaningful, whereas in most MMOs they're little more than a chat group. RvR was weirdly mature, and the leaders of my alliance and guild were strangely respectable and diplomatic people (in-game, at least). Bonding in the face of a common enemy is just one of those things that humans do, and few other games actually have an enemy (human or otherwise) that can take persistent things away from you.

The punch-line is that DAoC was my first MMO, and after I moved on to other games I spent a long time confused about the social disconnection and downright incivility of their communities. It was as if no one had anything to care about other than their personal gain. My word!

Everything else about DAoC sucked, of course, and I have no idea how WAR will turn out, but the core idea behind old-school RvR is a good one that shouldn't be lost.

[Akela]

Some of my best memories of any game ever would be defending/attacking keeps with my Nightshade. (I have picked Nightshade [the stealthy assassin-type character of Hyberina] since day one, when they were commonly viewed as gimped..Was my main until the end).

The cooperation of groups, the
"Damn, we have a caster on them walls, NS-go take him out!"
"Happy to oblige..." - type situations. When having done the task you sprint back being pelted by archers to be saved by a good bard in the last second....Good times.

Organization was incredible. Realm Pride was a huge factor (Igraine server). Rock paper scissors? Perhaps. But it was done well enough! Pieces did fit together, system worked. Right now the game is in its "later" stages, many issues surfacing with not much in terms of company resources to take care of them, but that was not always the case.

WAR != DAoC. If you have to label it anything it will be DAoC v 2.0. The ideas of realm involment, individual participation encouragement, realm pride, and Reward for the Effort are carried through using new methods and deep pockets of EA.

....What's not to like?....

[AversionFX]

I don't see WOW and WAR being similar in graphic style. I see WOW style being more cartoonish and stylish, ranging from high fanasty to low fanasty.


From the screenshots I've seen of WAR, its realistic and dark, with gothic influence. There not supposed to look the same.

WAR hasn't really grabbed me yet, I know that its focusing on RvR and PvP, but I haven't seen anything that grabs me.

I'm pretty sure WoW's art style was directly influenced by the Warhammer universe.

[Abash Alarmist]

I have a crazy idea. Why don't we wait until it's released to pass judgement.

Because I don't need to wait to judge it.

[Akela]

He never did claim the purpose of his Judgment, or the degree of its intended validity measured against some of your standards.

A judgment based on cautious pessimism rooted in desire to oppose is still a Judgment. He is right, you know. You don't have to wait to pass such a Judgment. The rest of you don't have to pay any attention to it either.

As someone said ... somewhere: "There is a place for all opinions here, even though yours is wrong".

:D

Alex.