Five ways Bungie can fix Halo 2 [Archive]

Adam Blue

08-28-2005, 07:13 PM

Halo 2 is not even in the same galaxy as the first Halo.

The first is a legend in videogame history. The second was a disgrace that pretty much destroyed the series.

This might fit in that "pansy" category I just mentioned, but as far as Halo vs Halo 2...

Halo made it simple for anyone to pick up and play. Just grab the pistol and you'll be on your way to a good time. Halo 2 added several different strategic elements. This frustrated a large amount of Halo players because someone would do one thing, someone would do another, then that would be mastered...then so on and so forth.

And that's what it boils down to. Halo: CE involves less strategy and therefore is generally easier. The opposite would be said about Halo 2.

Goronmon

08-28-2005, 07:16 PM

I actually think he makes some valid points. The control-based spawning of weapons is silly, especially considering how terrbile the SMG is as a starting weapon. The PP+BR combo is ridiculous. Vehicles I don't mind, most aren't too great. Though the Covenant tank is a bit too cheat codes, IMO.

A lot of it was whining however, especially about the host advantage with the matchmaking system.

Zeal

08-28-2005, 07:17 PM

This might fit in that "pansy" category I just mentioned, but as far as Halo vs Halo 2...

Halo made it simple for anyone to pick up and play. Just grab the pistol and you'll be on your way to a good time. Halo 2 added several different strategic elements. This frustrated a large amount of Halo players because someone would do one thing, someone would do another, then that would be mastered...then so on and so forth.

And that's what it boils down to. Halo: CE involves less strategy and therefore is generally easier. The opposite would be said about Halo 2.

Halo involves more strategy and also includes a balanced set of weapons. Halo 2's weapon set is so unbalanced that it forces players to pretty much cheat in order to stay alive (i.e. whoring the sword, rocket or using the plasma/BR combo over and over).

No matter what weapon you had in the original Halo, you always had a
chance of survival. The only thing your survival depended on was your skill with a weapon; the same cannot be said about Halo 2.

Also, Halo 2's stat system practically ruined the online community. Players are now willing to do anything to gain levels, whether it be cheating or stat boosting. It's no longer about skill or reputation, but about the level beside your name.

Although Halo isn't compatible with Live, it is with XBConnect and many other programs that make it online capable. There was no cheating and the community was also much more respectable.

EvilBob46

08-28-2005, 07:24 PM

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..........

Enormously indepth and insightful commentary, as always. Don't like the article I posted? Then find something more interesting so we can have more than 4 news items per day in these slow summer months.

Heretic Machine

08-28-2005, 07:24 PM

And that's what it boils down to. Halo: CE involves less strategy and therefore is generally easier. The opposite would be said about Halo 2.

Well you know what? All I know is that Halo PC is more fun than Halo 2 on Live. That's what it boils down to for me, and that's all I give a damn about.

TrackZero

08-28-2005, 07:26 PM

Personally, I found Halo to be the superior game... It's hard to explain why, I just do. I like Halo 2, don't get me wrong, but I don't find it to be nearly as fun or atmospheric as the original.

I get the same vibe. Something about the first Halo just seemed more...perfect. If it had co-op over Xbox Live, I don't think I'd have had reason to play another title on that system, ever.

IndependentGMR

08-28-2005, 07:27 PM

I think you guys take Halo a little too seriously. The guy is entitled to his opinion, which happens to make a lot of sense. Halo 2 isn't God's gift to the fps genre.

It's called an editorial. If you don't like his opinion, forumlate an opposing one of your own. Make sure it consists of more than just calling him a whining pansy.

Adam Blue

08-28-2005, 07:27 PM

Halo involves more strategy and also includes a balanced set of weapons. Halo 2's weapon set is so unbalanced that it forces players to pretty much cheat in order to stay alive (i.e. whoring the sword, rocket or using the plasma/BR combo over and over).

There is no whoring the sword or the rocket. Like I said, this is where strategy comes into play. How are you going to kill the sword whore? How are you going to get the rocket back? Plasma/BR combo? Stealth and cover.

No matter what weapon you had in the original Halo, you always had a chance of survival. The only thing your survival depended on was your skill with a weapon, the same cannot be said about Halo 2.

I guess that could be subjective, and I love Halo. But hell, all you needed was the pistol. WHy would I grab anything else when I could lay waste with the pistol so easily?

Also, Halo 2's stat system practically ruined the online community. Players are now willing to do anything to gain levels, whether it be cheating or stat boosting. It's no longer about skill or reputation, but about the level beside your name.

I will admit, sometimes the system turns on you. But online gaming has been needing a serious facelift, and it's good that someone has the balls to take the plunge. They knew the risks and EVERYONE in the gaming community is learning from it... I still ahve a great time though...

Although Halo isn't compatible with Live, it is with XBConnect and many other programs that make it online capable. There was no cheating and the community was also much more respectable.

I won't deny that Halo on XBConnect was great.

Adam Blue

08-28-2005, 07:28 PM

I think you guys take Halo a little too seriously. The guy is entitled to his opinion, which happens to make a lot of sense. Halo 2 isn't God's gift to the fps genre.

Sorry about the whole opinion thing...I tend to have a few of those.

IndependentGMR

08-28-2005, 07:32 PM

"A pansy gamer in journalism is a sure let down."

And such a strong opinion it is.

Twigz'N'Berries

08-28-2005, 07:34 PM

I guess it is just a matter of opinion. I really liked both Halo games. The single player story on Halo 1 was better and the multiplayer was awesome on Halo 2. Ithink a lot of players were expecting Halo 2 to give them the same rush as Halo 1 did. It just wasn't going to happen. Halo 1 was a new experience. Gamers were thrilled at everything they found in the game. The expectations for Halo 2 were just too great. The game was very good, but couldn;t live up to the game players had built up in their heads. I blame MS's hype machine for that. Their hype machine killed off many a good gaming experiences because they built unrealistic expectations in gamer's heads.

Just my opinion on the whole Halo thing.

Adam Blue

08-28-2005, 07:37 PM

"A pansy gamer in journalism is a sure let down."

And such a strong opinion it is.

Maybe a strong opinion....but I don't want to read horror movie reviews by someone that sqeals at the sight of gore...because then the review would reflect on that.

IndependentGMR

08-28-2005, 07:44 PM

Maybe a strong opinion....but I don't want to read horror movie reviews by someone that sqeals at the sight of gore...because then the review would reflect on that.

That's not a very good analogy. His article highlights mistakes that bungie made in the development of the multiplayer. Those mistakes, in his opinion, ruin the game. The purpose of his article was not to document his frustrations with losing, but to expose flaws. Plus, he didn't write a review. It's an editorial.

However, I don't want this to turn into an ignorant argument. We obviously have strong opinions residing on opposite sides of the fence.

Heretic Machine

08-28-2005, 07:50 PM

Kamalot

08-28-2005, 08:03 PM

My experience was the opposite... I found that I was really happy with Halo 2 at first... but slowly came to the realization that it wasn't as good as the original Halo.
As the hype wore off, I think everyone came to realize that...well...everyone without Microsoft's hook firmly through their cheek.

Zeal

08-28-2005, 08:05 PM

What's worse is the H3 hype is soon to begin. Expect something at X05.

jonchaos

08-28-2005, 08:11 PM

Halo was by far the better game. I think Halo 2 has quite a few shortcomings and they need to be addressed. You could say I am whining because I suck at Halo 2 but then you would realize that I am a 31. I don't suck at it, but I don't like it either. Upsetting too considering how fun the first one truly was. I remember having countless 15+ hours gaming sessions. Good times.

Blue

08-28-2005, 08:12 PM

I personally like Halo 2 over the first. Don't get me wrong, I still regularly play through the first, but I found the second to be more stream-lined and focused. The levels on the first game were really back and forth with me as some would be brilliant and allow for fantastic battles whereas others were so repetative rehashes. A lot of Halo - for me - was stuck in backtrack mode. Again, I still think it's a brilliant game, but the second really came off as being stronger, more put-together, and I can't help feeling that Bungie went into that title better prepared and, to me, it shows.

Ultima Thulian

08-28-2005, 08:40 PM

"Five ways Bungie can fix Halo2 Multiplayer..." Was it even broke to begin with? I like some of the points the guy makes, but I think Halo 2 is superior. Seems I'm alone in thinking that. But the weapons are better balanced. Hey I love the "Sniper" pistol and the super powerful shotgun in the first game, but they were a little unfair. Deft use of those two weapons usually scores a victory IMO.

Halo 2 (for the exception of the BS ending) had better presentation, better story (Well, I could actually hear the story, in the first Cortana rambled while I was being mauled by Flood or the damn choir would overkill the voices, even with the music volume turned down), two different and equally interesting characters, excellent weapon balance and multiplayer, online, purdy graphics and great sound, and just more personality, strategy, difficulty, and better A.I. For me, that makes the sequel better. Both are fantastic (but not perfect) FPS games. Can we all agree both are kickass?

Phades

08-28-2005, 08:51 PM

The thing that truly did it for me in Halo 2 was playing through the campaign with a buddy on Legendary difficulty. I may be a bit of a masochist, but I loved every moment of it and constantly getting my ass handed to me. It would take us hours just to beat a single level. I was very disappointed though that it didn't have coop on Live.

If Halo 3 doesn't have Live coop, I won't buy it....... or at least I'll scowl as I do.

jeffool

08-28-2005, 09:19 PM

I think the guy (L.M. Smith) is dead on in that these are problems. They may not be 'huge' problems 'all the time', but they're definitely true. Lord knows back when CTF Wraiths was every other Big Team Battle, I held on to rocket launchers while defending the base for a long time just so it wouldn't spawn again for other teams to use against our vehicles. And sure, it's 'a strategy,' but it's one that is ridiculously hard to counter.

Then again, I'm still saddened that you can't make warthogs indestructable in custom games.

MasterEvilAce

08-28-2005, 09:33 PM

Halo > Halo2, for some reason. Despite Halo2 having more oodles of stuff.

Usually sequals do dominate... every game in the GTA series.. I play one, then i play the newer.. and I never want to touch the older one ever again. I even tried it, and found myself in pain. Need For Speed Underground dominated the first, and again... agony to even mention the first of the two.... Mario... I play Mario 3.. love it.. I try Mario 2.. it's "ok".. it's too different. I try Mario1... Can't walk backwards to the left?? what the hell? *Turns off game*

But Halo... At a LAN my friend occasionally has, we were all playing Halo2.. bored out of our minds.. getting angry with the game, losing the will to play for some reason.. and he says, "Let's have some real fun" and pops in Halo1.

The only thing Halo2 really has over Halo1, are the little things such as when someone disconnects, the other player's screen fills the dead space, giving more room. The plasma sword is nifty, too, though.. but it gets bland after awhile.

evilpenguin9000

08-28-2005, 09:47 PM

I'd say overall Halo is better than Halo 2, but it's close. I think most of the points in the 1UP article are dead on. There isn't a lot you can really do about most of them, but they are flaws. I too am with the group that enjoyed it a lot more at first and then less as time went on.

The original Halo also had it's flaws, a la the uber pistol and heatseeking grenades. The reason it is still the king if simply the fact that it's the original. Nothing trumps nostalgia.

Zanzibar

08-28-2005, 09:57 PM

My experience was the opposite... I found that I was really happy with Halo 2 at first... but slowly came to the realization that it wasn't as good as the original Halo.

Agreed. The more we play LAN Halo 2 parties, the less fun we're finding it. The articles first point - about the control-spawn idea - is absolutely 100% the main complaint I have about Halo 2. It makes the entire strategy from 'kill the other team' or 'plant the bomb' to 'grab the fuckin' sniper rifle/rocket launcher or else we'll never survive.'

If they fixed this one problem, I think it'd be as much fun as Halo 1. I really believe that. Some of the maps from the map pack are really ridiculously awesome. I think the sword is probably fair to only have one spawn of, but the other stuff is broken. Grab the rocket launcher and sit in the Scorpion tank on Coagulation and the game is over.

I really wish they'd at least give us the OPTION to turn on 'timed weapon spawns'. Can't be THAT difficult to code, even if it's non-ranked.

Dirty Harry

08-28-2005, 10:35 PM

Well you know what? All I know is that Halo PC is more fun than Halo 2 on Live. That's what it boils down to for me, and that's all I give a damn about.
Ive played both xbox versions and the pc version and while i didnt like ANY of them i thought the Halo CE version was the best. Xboxtunnel is good though before halo ce came out.

Vjornaxx

08-28-2005, 11:33 PM

Adam - I really think you're overreacting to this article. It's not like he's making wild claims about anything. The points he makes are all valid... especially about the weapon spawning / vehicle spawning.

As for saying that Halo 1 had no strategy - well you know damn well that's not true. The strategies in Halo 2 involve holding onto the power weapons, whereas the strategies in Halo 1 involve timing the weapon spawns and fighting to get to the pickups. Sure, anyone can pick up and play Halo 1, but the same can be said for Halo 2... AND you could even argue that less skill is involved since it's easier to aim the SMG than a pistol... but the skill isn't the point here. The point is that both games involve strategy to win... it's just a different kind of strategy.

I would argue that strategies were a bit easier to counter in Halo 1, and that's why people complain (myself included) about Halo 2. Because all players have the pistol, good tactics are rewarded rather than weapon control. Sure, good weapons help, but they don't guaruntee a win. So in Halo 1, strategies like holding the top in Damnation, or holding blue base in Hang 'Em High weren't guarunteed to win because a better coordinated team had a fighting chance wrest control of those areas from you.

If you look at Halo 2, the reason it is much more difficult to counter the winning tactics, because when you spawn in, you are at an immediate disadvantage to the opposing team's players with weapons. If they spot you, YOU will be the one to die and there's not much you can do about it. It would be nice if the spawning system worked like it did in Halo 1 (with teammates consistently spawning near teammates), because sneaking your team's spawn closer to an enemy would be a clever tactic... but the player respawn system is not consistent enough to rely on like you could in Halo 1.

Which game is superior is purely a matter of opinion, but I like the game which I feel starts players out on a level playing field. You have your complaints with the pistol, but let me ask you this - What's wrong with a standard weapon? If there was an FPS in which there was only one weapon, what would it be a game of? Tactics. Pure tactics.

Orphiuchus

08-28-2005, 11:40 PM

I have never understood how anyone could stand halo or halo 2, I just found both to be unfun, and very dumb games. I guess I'll give halo one more shot, there must be something I'm missing.

Zeal

08-28-2005, 11:47 PM

I have never understood how anyone could stand halo or halo 2, I just found both to be unfun, and very dumb games. I guess I'll give halo one more shot, there must be something I'm missing.

Don't worry, you're in the extreme minority.

trip1eX

08-28-2005, 11:58 PM

Wow someone talking about host advantage on xbox live. I used to mention this to console folks and they had no idea what the hell I was talking about.

I always thought there was host advantge for every xbox live game. As the article says it's a big advantage.

MasterKwan

08-29-2005, 12:10 AM

Sadly, I'm with Orphiuchus. It's not like I haven't tried too. I have all 3 version (H1/H2 and H1 PC). First, I can't play an FPS without a mouse and Keyboard. Second, the PC version of Halo's still clearly a console port with the large hitbox and mostly spray type weapons.

I know I'm in a tiny minority here.

Orphiuchus

08-29-2005, 12:28 AM

I grabbed my pc copy, I installed it, and its still a stupid unfun game. I just dont get it. And the plot, jesus, its just not good. A dumb plot can ruin a game for me, luckily I hate the way this game plays, so its no loss.

I'm probably the only person who is still pissed about halo getting ruined by microsoft too. When I played just now I couldn't seem to get over what could have been.(I know EvilAvatar tends to attract people who love microsoft and EA and any huge company that ruins games, but thats not why I dont like halo so dont bother with it.)

RandomViolence

08-29-2005, 12:51 AM

One weapon = pure tactics, eh? I thought the idea of having varied weapons was to size up the requirements of different engagements and decide which weapon would give you a TACTICAL advantage. Putting everyone on a perfectly level playing field just shouldn't happen, and frankly is boring as shit (as anyone who's played 4 hour Blood Gulch marathons can attest to).

If it's not pure weapon equality, it's spawn location, or imbalances on the map. People can complain about anything. I do believe that with no timed respawns and the Plasma/BR combo Bungie made some mistakes. However... that's it! I really don't hate on control spawning that much either. It is definitely possible to wrest power weapons from people, and if you're bitching about it, then why aren't YOU controlling the damn spawns?

I would like to see timed spawns to see how they change the game, and it would a lot, but there's nothing like assassinating a sniper because you were a sneaky fucker and turning the tables on him, knowing that you'll put him through the same pain. I think it's fun because at times it's really fucking difficult. Everything you do in a match of Halo 2 has consequences. Halo 1 you just... run out and headshot everyone. I think as a competitive game Halo 2 is far superior. Halo 1 is more laid-back, requires less thought, and is a lot of fun as a couch game. I can definitely see wanting to play that over Halo 2 on a LAN with buddies.

Anyway, I'm tired of nitpicking, both are great fun but not where my heart lies. My loins ache for Gears of War co-op play. I'll satiate that with some Shock 2 co-op. Has anyone made a better game? I mean... seriously. Co-op Sci-fi Horror RPG.

Mmmmm.
Tastes liek caek.

Vandenh

08-29-2005, 01:14 AM

Screw all those whiners.... Halo 2 is great online. If they like Halo 1 better, then just play Halo 1 and stop complaining.

DeadlyDonkey

08-29-2005, 01:47 AM

jeffool

08-29-2005, 02:19 AM

Putting everyone on a perfectly level playing field just shouldn't happen, and frankly is boring as shit (as anyone who's played 4 hour Blood Gulch marathons can attest to).Everyone is on the same basis in the beginning of a match. So it's as even as it'll ever be, save the host issue. It's just that in Halo 2, to overcome a winning strategy you really have to be part of a good team. And that's another major problem; the players are largely bastards (or children, (or bastard children.))

But four hour matches in the Gulch? Man, two years ago when I lived in Orlando my friends and I met every Sunday to play. Sixteen player Blood Gulch CTF and AssFlag matches. (Assault Flag. You plant the flag in the opponent's base, you score.) We usually spent six or more hours playing Halo and usually only got in two matches. It's easy to kill hours on that game when your seven teammates are all in the same room as you and you're plotting, laughing, and shouting obsceneties at the other team in a different room. And with console games, you get the added 'tactical advantage' of being able to see your team's screens. :D Then we'd all be worn out and go play Munchkin or something equally as geeky.

jim_rock

08-29-2005, 03:02 AM

Wow, I can't believe this thread. Most of the posts are people just jumping on this "Halo 2 is full of weapon spawn fuckups" bandwagon. This is bullshit, people! Whats so wrong with the weapon spawns in Halo2? I got Halo 2 at midnight on the ninth of november and I still play atleast a half hour on Live (if not more) everyday I'm able to! When I lose at live and go down a ranking I dont sit and bitch about where bungie put the weapons because I'm sentient enough to realize I'm playing on the same damn map as the other team..... We each have equal rights to all the weapons on the map!
I have the same chance to get these so-called "power weapons" as anyone else on the map. Plus if your not a moron, you can realize that every weapon has horrific weaknesses. The rocket launcher is a complete liability when your opponent is up close to you and the sword is useless when your opponent is at a distance. Most skilled players will use these weapons when they get a chance and do some damage, but the sniper rifles are the real threat to any intelligent player.
I'm very suspicious that most of you posters are dissing halo2 live because you got your shit tossed in it and instead of trying to be better, you just bitch and moan. Halo 2 is incredible. It has easily the largest and most active community of multiplayer users in the history of console gaming. The game has been fun since the minute I tossed it in the xbox. Some of you people sound like you don't even have live and your just bitching about the experiences you have playing system link at a friends house. Me and my rl friends party up on Live at our respective houses and kickass . Who wants to share a friggin screen?
Halo2 almost perfectly recreates the feeling of playing with your friends without actually having to gather together and share lil rinky dink split screens or string wires around in some dudes basement. I have multiple friends who have bought xboxes for the specific purpose of being able to join in on live sessions after seeing how much fun they are.
Furthermore, to beat a dead horse into guaranteed submission (aka weapon spawn issue): Ever hear of a battle rifle? The best weapon in the game is lying around everywhere and spawns super rapidly. The weapon is deadly as hell in an experienced players and hand and can easily neutralize a rocket or sword. However if you run around with an smg and immediately rush every opponent you see, your gonna get tore up and bitter.

gamertag: Pink Nasty

bapenguin

08-29-2005, 04:19 AM

There's one glaring flaw in this article. He is comparing the PC version of Halo: CE with the console version of Halo 2. Credibility is out the window right there.

I think what happened with Halo2, with opening up to the Live community, paired with the fact the game is so damn popular, is that no glitch, no tweak, no secret was left unturned. Every little advantage that was found in the game quickly spawned around to every play (The PP/BR combo for example). Before that was the SMG/Pistol combo.

The weapon spawning is definitley a problem...but it can be overcome. It's part of the strategy of the game. Just because other games do it differently doesn't mean it's right.

My only problem with Halo 2, is the PP/BR combo. It's simply way to overpowerful and throws the balance out on larger maps. On close quarters maps, it's a little more fair.

Still....4 player Slayer on Damnation in Halo 1 is my all time fav....perfect balance.

Adam Blue

08-29-2005, 04:24 AM

That's not a very good analogy. His article highlights mistakes that bungie made in the development of the multiplayer. Those mistakes, in his opinion, ruin the game. The purpose of his article was not to document his frustrations with losing, but to expose flaws. Plus, he didn't write a review. It's an editorial.

However, I don't want this to turn into an ignorant argument. We obviously have strong opinions residing on opposite sides of the fence.

Bungie didn't make mistakes(gameplay-wise). Their mechanics were done on purpose. The editor is obviously taking out his frustration with losing to certain strategies.

Halo: CE was designed so that on most maps and in most situations, players already had the best weapon-the human pistol. While the pistol is tremendously overpowered (two body shots and a headshot is a kill), everyone starts with one in most situations (Wizard was an example of where they didn't). By starting everyone with an equally powerful weapon, Bungie's map design demanded performance from the players. Victory is determined by skill rather than the randomness of the weapon. After all, if everyone has the same weapon, it's a Tombstone-style shoot-out.

This guy is obviously mad at the game, for he's mad when the enemy grabs the rocks before him. He thinks everyone should just have a pistol. That could be fun...but would get extremely old.

Halo 2's design includes the need for map control, but the mechanics of map control have been twisted by the game's design. Forgoing timed respawns on power weapons in favor of a control-based spawn system, Halo 2's power weapons stay in the hands of the team who grabs them, unless they empty the weapon or drop it. When the weapon is dropped, it idles and then despawns and respawns on a timer. These control-based spawns are central to the broken game design of Halo 2. Once a team has the weapons, it's only their fault if they lose them.

This is where team-based strategy would come into play. But obviously holding on to a power weapon so the opposing team won't get it is unfair. Count the enemies rocket shots. Know when a respawn is likely to occur. Communicate.

In the first 30 seconds of a Coagulation slayer game, it's pretty obvious what team is going to win.

I would have agreed around the release of the game, but since then I have learned that just because you have the rockets it isn't game over.

And there's a lot more here. I could go on and on, but I need to get to work. But it's obviously all frustrations. He's trying to make Halo 2 into a game it's not.

PantherModern

08-29-2005, 07:11 AM

While I don't think that the article is perfect, I also don't think that the author is really going too far out on a limb with his suggestions. I know my primary frsutrations in H2 stem from the weapon spawn system, and I do think that it makes map balancing a problem at times. However, I think the author is failing to realize that most of the people who play the game a have simply adapted to the new style of play. I loathe sword/shotty and sword/rocket whores as much as the next guy, but hey--they got to them, and now you have to deal with it.

The only problem that I think he addresses correctly is the host issue. It is real, despite what Live lovers may think. It's certainly not insurmountable, and real skill will always overcome superior ping, but I imagine that as more and more people with shoddy connections continue to play on Live it will be something that becomes a larger problem.

Honestly, the real way to have fun with Halo 2 is to treat it like Halo:CE--just play with your friends and recreate those golden times in your basement huddled around a couple of TV's. Usually I only hate playing H2 when I am playing alone in matchmaking.

RandomViolence

08-29-2005, 07:51 AM

Why are we arguing about a console shooter?

Everyone knows that if you want a decent online fps experience, with leagues, clans and community, you need to pick up a PC shooter. Not to mention that joypads are horrible for FPSes, and most console games turn on autoaim to compensate.

*Listens patiently as DeadlyDonkey thrashes the dead horse.*

Ummm... no.

I've had more fun with my Halo 2 clan than any PC one I've been a part of. And, for the last time, joypads are BETTER for Halo 2 than PC controls.

We understand you goddamn PC fucktards (thanks Reanimated) are addicted to your mouse/keyboard combo. You're all closed-minded and scared about a new control scheme. Fine, we get it. Leave the damn horse alone, it's been violated enough for one year.

Heretic Machine

08-29-2005, 08:11 AM

Why are we arguing about a console shooter?

"You are an idiot, ha-ha-ha ha-ha ha-ha ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha."

01010

08-29-2005, 08:34 AM

It's not hard to kill a guy with a rocket launcher or a sniper. Most of the weapon whoring problems arise when the people who don't get the weapons just blindly charge at a position. Me and my buddies use lures to pick off the weaker weaponed players and then mass charge.

I disagree with pretty much all the points the guy makes actually aside from snipers on Colossus. It either needs 2 snipers or no snipers cause it's unbalanced with 1.

Demo_Boy

08-29-2005, 09:03 AM

I read the article and my assessment is the guy knows what he is talking about, but he drones on and on so long that it winds up sounding whiney like a forum post and the reader gets fatigued and misses the key suggestions.

Many are likely to come away thinking the guy should just go play Halo1, even though the changes he suggests would be warranted.

Tightening up the article (say word count divide by 2) would have given it more credibility.

I don't know about a full rebalance on dual weilding though, that sounds a bit chancy.

Demo_Boy

08-29-2005, 09:06 AM

...and Unreal2: XMP is ten times the depth Halo2 MP could ever have.

Orphiuchus

08-29-2005, 11:32 AM

You're all close-minded and scared about a new control scheme.

I'm scared of a control scheme where autoaim is necessary to make the game playable.

I'm sorry if I prefer a scheme where I actually have to be good at the game to win, I guess you console guys will never understand that.

evilpenguin9000

08-29-2005, 12:12 PM

I'm scared of a control scheme where autoaim is necessary to make the game playable.

I'm sorry if I prefer a scheme where I actually have to be good at the game to win, I guess you console guys will never understand that.

/sigh
how can you argue with that? You just can't be good at Halo like you can on a PC FPS. I'm horribly sorry for like a console FPS, I'll never be as ubar leet as you.

ldi222

08-29-2005, 04:09 PM

http://www.thatweasel.tv/video_single.php?vId=1822

This is what I have to say to that article, PC gamers are especially encouraged to see what analog sticks and right and left triggers can do...

Ultima Thulian

08-29-2005, 05:52 PM

I agree with Random Violence. The double joysticks vs. keyboard/mouse debate is old. Both work fine. I agree with some of the points the article makes, but it's long winded and frankly, most of the faults aren't a big deal. I'm not super kickass at Halo2 or anything, but I've never whined about weapon spawning. It really isn't that big of deal. And let's be honest. Both Halos are kickass. They're not perfect like many people say, but dammit, they're really fun. For the most part, every timed I get my ass handed to me in Halo 1 or 2 it is because I SUCK. Not the game or weapon spawns or any weakminded excuse like that.

jwbxx

08-29-2005, 07:58 PM

1.Not a bad idea, but what would suck is that lets say its a sniper rifle on coagulation. If it respawned even if someone had one, then everyone and their mother at the end of the game would have a sniper rifle. Then you could truely put teams on lock down.
2.meh
3.Needlers are a joke, hes right about that.
4.Plasma pistol needs a huge nerf, the auto track feature is too good. Get rid of it so it can be a close combat weapon.
5.Hes right about host.

RandomViolence

08-29-2005, 09:52 PM

I'm scared of a control scheme where autoaim is necessary to make the game playable.

I'm sorry if I prefer a scheme where I actually have to be good at the game to win, I guess you console guys will never understand that.

I guess you didn't like the last few Zelda games, Goldeneye, Metroid Prime, or half the third person shooters out there either.

Look. You're getting me riled up, because your goddamn arguments don't make any fucking sense. EVERYONE uses the autoaim in Halo. Hence, those who use it the best will aim the best, and therefore win. That means it takes skill to win. Hell, sometimes it takes more than a keyboard and mouse, because you can't just instantly move the mouse to whatever position you need. You need to account for more in aiming. I'm sorry if YOU can't get adjusted to it, but the rest of us who have like it just fine. Stop fighting what's obviously a decent working solution because of your own reactionary hang-ups.

It's done in the name of FUN, dammit. Why fight fun?

Morratut

08-30-2005, 04:35 AM

I loved both the Halo games but I much prefer Halo2 mp to Halo:CE mp. I just don't see how people can compare the weapon balance of the first to the second game. Especially with the Sniper Pistol in CE :rolleyes:

Everything in Halo2 for me is much more balanced. If some team is kicking your teams ass you can normally swing it around if you communicate and work together.

Yes Halo2 isn't perfect but then again no game is.

Halo 2 for me is great. I love playing good close matches with friends. Fantastic fun.

The joypad vs mouse/keyboard is old. Who cares both work great.