CGW issue unearths HL2 details

[Varsity]

Hey, guess what! I've got more Valve news! Forum members at HL2.net (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90261) have started to recieve their subscriber copies of Computer Gaming World magazine early, as happens for many mags. They've got a Valve bonanza, and some of it is interesting in the extreme.

Lost Coast and DODS 'should be avaliable as you read this'; it is currently less than 2 weeks to the issue's official release.
The director commentary in Lost Coast takes the form of in-game cues that you can walk up to an use to hear what the devs have to say.
Thirdly and finally for Lost Coast, it does in fact tie in with the story, explaining how Ravenholm became overrun with headcrabs.
Aftermath includes new AI for the Rebels and 'collaborative action'.
The Hydra, cut from the game since its demo at E3 2003, may well return in future titles.
Valve don't intend to deliberately shy away from new IPs - but only expect them in the form of episodes.
EA want to take a 'similar approach' to Steam in the near future. Uh oh.
Biggie no. 1: Valve want a new HL2 episode every 3 months and a seasonal box set of them for 56kers and philistines.
Biggie no. 2: Steam has been completely rearchitectured, and we are all 'running two versions of it': Steam 2.0 and 3.0 alongside each other. Presumably only parts, of course.
Biggie no. 3: The second episode, following Aftermath, focuses on vehicles. Aftermath focuses on character interaction, and Alyx is always with the player during it.
Gabe also wants to fight WOW (think Steam IMO, not a game), doesn't think Vista will solve any problems, and finds the 360 a pain because he 'can't rely on a hard drive'.

Infodump...complete. Props to Iced_Eagle for posting it all!

[Cyrano]

Just read the article this morning. Here's the quote from Newell about Vista and the 360:

"Look, I spoke to some people at Microsoft, and as I said, I can't point to a single feature in Vista that I care about that solves problems for us. At all. And I had the same conversation with the Xbox 360 guys. It's like, Xbox 360 doesn't make my life any better, and in fact, it makes it a lot worse, as you're telling me I can't count on having a hard drive."

C'mon, Microsoft fanboys, tell us why Gabe should actually be happy!

In fairness, Newell slams Sony far worse than he does Microsoft.

[Draft]

Biggie no. 1: Valve want a new HL2 episode every 3 months and a seasonal box set of them for 56kers and philistines.Hasn't HL2 been out for almost a year now?
Biggie no. 2: Steam has been completely rearchitectured, and Valve are internally running Steam 2.0 and 3.0 alongside each other.Good. It's a solid idea that needs some serious performance tweaking.
Gabe also wants to fight WOW (think Steam IMO, not a game),Zuh? As in, subscribe to Steam? doesn't think Vista will solve any problems,What problems was he expecting Vista to solve, exactly. and finds the 360 a pain because he 'can't rely on a hard drive'.Hahahaha, no shit. HL2 has more loading than a New York City pier. Without a hard drive, they'd probably have to put a game on the loading screen, like the original Ridge Racer :)

[dartt]

Great bit of news.

Gabe shouldn't worry about the potential non hard drive systems, I think the majority of people that want to play a great new valve title that requires a harddrive will shell out for a HD or have one already.

I remember when Perfect Dark for the N64 came out, I was a fanboy enough to shell out for the memory expansion so I could play more than 4 player MP (or whatever it was), maybe games on the X360 that require the hard drive will have some kind of reduced functionality on core systems (or enhaned functionality on the premium bundle for the "glass-half-full types :p )

[Klade]

Interesting that he would like to release new content every 3 months. I'd like to own a spaceship but thats not going to happen either ;-). Seriously valve isn't known for making deadlines or producing content quickly. I'm all for new content but I'm not holding out much hope for it arriving quickly.

[Varsity]

Zuh? As in, subscribe to Steam?As in, provide the sort of community features WOW enjoys. I was wrong though - he's actually talking about how the WOW community make the story themselves. It's in a reply to the linked thread.

[Draft]

As in, provide the sort of community features WOW enjoys. I was wrong though - he's actually talking about how the WOW community make the story themselves. It's in a reply to the linked thread.Hahahah... ok. I'll just say, as a fairly active member of the WoW community, there's very little story making going on.

[amusedtoe]

Hmm, too bad those quarterly episodes won't be free. Still if they're quality, at least 5 to 10 hours at a couple bucks a piece telling an on-going story or whatever I'd be on board with that. As far as the hard drive goes sure most people who know anything will just buy the $400 package, but that's not the audience that makes up the majority of the buisness anymore. If say 70% of the customers in the first six months skip the HDD and in the year after that it drops no lower then 60% how long until it goes the same way as the PS2 drive? Because Microsoft is deemphasizing it as a peripheral, let alone a core component, why will the average consumer buy it or the developer make special use of it? I hope it doesn't work out this way but it's hard to see it becoming much more then a massive memory card.

[TrackZero]

Zuh? As in, subscribe to Steam?

I think he means them making money by selling episodic content over it. If the delivery service itself costs money, people will simply move elsewhere.

[TrackZero]

Damn, with Lost Coast coming out, it's almost time for me to buy a new videocard.

[Groo]

"Look, I spoke to some people at Microsoft, and as I said, I can't point to a single feature in Vista that I care about that solves problems for us. At all. And I had the same conversation with the Xbox 360 guys. It's like, Xbox 360 doesn't make my life any better, and in fact, it makes it a lot worse, as you're telling me I can't count on having a hard drive."


"So Gabe, what would make you happy?"

http://games.tiscali.cz/images/news/hl2gabe.jpg

GRAVY!

[Varsity]

I've added a few corrections now I've got my hands on the article. Steam 3.0 isn't just running at Valve - it's also taken over some unspecified client duties. EA are also planning a 'similar approach' to Steam 'soon'. Whatever it means, I have a nasty feeling about it.

[earthworm48]

Well I'm not getting any of the new consoles as I still don't see enough worth for my money, especially since I'm starting University in a month, but I will say this: Newell hates Next - gen. Any format. He will dive on any negativity about it. Everything he has said about it has been negative from the word go. Other dev's have just got on with it.

With regards to the WOW thing, when he was asked about next gen, he was harping on about how WOW was the target/benchmark for games, in terms of polish, hours played no. of users e.t.c. I don't feel like he can relate that game to steam easily.

If there are lots of episodic things on steam for quite cheap that would be fantastic as there will always be a flow of new games! Well I don't know if the HL episodes will be so often, its taken them months for 1 level. HDR you say? It was put into Far Cry by the dev's quickly, but wasn't really cleaned up, its a bit crap in places, but I don't think it would have taken Valve this long. Personally I think they have great art direction but the guys like Newell arren't actually too hot. Regardless of the amount polish, they take just too damn long.

I don't know about Aftermath. The recent trailer looked quite good, but the more I hear..... the "character interaction" was quite irritating in HL2, as you just sit there and listen too acting thats not great enough to be great (like System Shock) and not bad enough to be funny. Those rebel teams just generally got in your way and died too, very irritating as lots of the time you are going into small rooms and hallways and can't run back/out easily as they are there. The vehicles in HL2 were ok, a little crappy though, but my biggest complaint was how long the sections were. Now Valve want to charge for an episode thats mainly based on vehicles? I don't know. They still have time to improve and nothings in stone yet. Guess I'll have to wait and see.

[Varsity]

I don't know about Aftermath. The recent trailer looked quite good, but the more I hear..... the "character interaction" was quite irritating in HL2, as you just sit there and listen too acting thats not great enough to be great (like System Shock) and not bad enough to be funny. Those rebel teams just generally got in your way and died too, very irritating as lots of the time you are going into small rooms and hallways and can't run back/out easily as they are there. The vehicles in HL2 were ok, a little crappy though, but my biggest complaint was how long the sections were. Now Valve want to charge for an episode thats mainly based on vehicles? I don't know. They still have time to improve and nothings in stone yet. Guess I'll have to wait and see.The whole idea is that Valve take something they (it) reckon(s) could be done better, and focus on improving it. So reading the article, they discuss how having Alyx alongside the players all the time led to all sorts of design issues, and mention how the Rebel AI has had huge improvements.

[bKangy]

I've added a few corrections now I've got my hands on the article. Steam 3.0 isn't just running at Valve - it's also taken over some unsepecified client duties. EA are also planning a 'similar approach' to Steam 'soon'. Whatever it means, I have a nasty feeling about it.

Yeah, here's what they do:

You buy their game, and then you receive a third of it every 2 months. Also, instead of expansion packs, they simply take $20 from your credit card and stream whatever they want to your HD.

[Liquidize105]

So is there an option to turn off HDR lighting in lost coast, did he say? I wouldn't wanna miss it just because my setup isn't bleeding edge.

Gabe Newell = Peta Griffin, say something funny Gabe!

[DrunkenImmortal]

Aftermath includes new AI for the Rebels and 'collaborative action'.
[/i]

I seem to remember them trying to tout this in the pre-release hype. The AI in half-life 2, on both sides, was pretty dissapointing. The enemies in particular were nowhere near as tough as in Half-Life and the game was only just challenging on the highest difficulty setting. You'd just wait for the combine soldiers to step out from behind their cover. I thought they were going to be based on the PoD_Bots from CS.

The rebel AI was atrocious, if they could get through a door and not stop my grenades from going through and killing the lot of us it was a good thing. In the end I'd just let them run through and get cut to ribbons :rolleyes:

Nonetheless, this does certainly warrant a new video card :)

[bapenguin]

I don't know....I just don't put Valve on a pedestool like I used to. They are like..somewhere in between 3D Realms and Blizzard...closer to 3d Realms, when they used to be closer to Blizzard.

I'm not quite sure what he wants the OS to do to make his life easier....I mean...?

[GrinR]

HL2 AI? ELL OH ELL.
HL2 Plot? AR OH EFF ELL EM AEY OH

Sing it with me, boys!

[earthworm48]

Yeah, it only has HDR if your PC supports it.

I hate the way you can't open up a PC games mag nowadays without seeing the writers now being Valve's gimps.

[Adam Blue]

Funny. When HL2 came out and I knocked on the AI, I was burned at the stake. Now it's cool to hate.

Valve just doesn't excite me anymore.

[Liquidize105]

I wouldn't count on seasonal episodes. Semi-annual's good enough.

I'm very excited about alien swarm source. Make it 10 dollars baby!

[Kefkataran]

Man, so many bitchy whiny people. Even if you didn't think HL2 was the greatest game ever, there's no denying it was well-done and fun. But you cynics ain't having none of that, huh?

Anyways, cool news. I hope Valve can get their shit together and get content out that fast. It would be quite awesome and I'd have no qualms throwing down however much they want for each addition.

[koorb]

Gabe is being stupid.

1) When you launch a game under windows Vista, vista will unload all the unused services and applications from memory so it will be like running the game under DOS with only the essential programs running.

2) Games can actually ask Vista how powerful your system is for different things, like loading textures and alter the games graphical settings to cater for that.

3) There will be NO graphical difference between an ATI or nVidia card under Vista, the only difference will be overall performance.

4) WGF 2.0 allows GPU processing without CPU intervention

If that isn't an improvement over XP, specifically targeted towards gaming, I don't know what is.

[Draft]

Man, so many bitchy whiny people. Even if you didn't think HL2 was the greatest game ever, there's no denying it was well-done and fun. But you cynics ain't having none of that, huh?

Anyways, cool news. I hope Valve can get their shit together and get content out that fast. It would be quite awesome and I'd have no qualms throwing down however much they want for each addition.Who said it wasn't. The "problem" with HL2 is that lots of people put it on the pedestal as "Best Game Ever", which opens it up to all sorts of nitpicking. Like, I really love this game called Disciples 2. I may go on and on about how much I love Disciples 2, and no one will ever say a cross word to me, because they don't care if I like it or not. But, when I step up and say that Disciples 2 is the best game ever made, everyone and their brother steps up and starts pointing out the games flaws, and rightfully so. The "Best Game Ever" needs to be beyond reproach, and HL2, with its constant loading, unremarkable AI and lack of any multiplayer, is pretty damn reproachable.

I think Valve has, for the most part, the gamers best interests in mind. They certainly support the hell out of their game (which is probably pretty easy when you only have one game and are rich as hell, but I digress.) But more so than our needs, Valve is out for Valve. Steam is a method for bypassing publishers, which may promote creativity in a secondary capacity, but will primarily put more pesos into Valve's coffer. No other company (that I can think of) buys mods, puts them in a box, and sells them for $40. On one hand, thats great, gives the mod and mod making in general a lot of exposure. On the other hand, $40 bucks for Counter Strike? wtf? How about just putting the CS and DoD install in the normal HL box, with a big sticker on front that says, "Hey, ignorant frat boys, this box contains that Counterstrike game you've heard so much about."

[TrackZero]

Gabe is being stupid.

1) When you launch a game under windows Vista, vista will unload all the unused services and applications from memory so it will be like running the game under DOS with only the essential programs running.

2) Games can actually ask Vista how powerful your system is for different things, like loading textures and alter the games graphical settings to cater for that.

3) There will be NO graphical difference between an ATI or nVidia card under Vista, the only difference will be overall performance.

4) WGF 2.0 allows GPU processing without CPU intervention

If that isn't an improvement over XP, specifically targeted towards gaming, I don't know what is.

Let's not forget how there are now ESRB configurations for parents to easily set the games they want their kids to play system-wide. No more complaints about that end, since they can now buy the kid a game by accident that they configured on the comp to be unplayable due to it's rating. ;)

[51|RandoM]

You guys are scaring me with this Vista crap. Why don't we just skip right to skynet?

[kraemer]

Does Gabe not know that the Vista graphics driver model is multithreaded, and Nvidias' David Kirk said they went out of their way to expose the parallelism at every single stage in the graphics pipeline?

To say that Vista brings nothing new to the table is pretty ignorant.

[Kefkataran]

Who said it wasn't. The "problem" with HL2 is that lots of people put it on the pedestal as "Best Game Ever", which opens it up to all sorts of nitpicking. Like, I really love this game called Disciples 2. I may go on and on about how much I love Disciples 2, and no one will ever say a cross word to me, because they don't care if I like it or not. But, when I step up and say that Disciples 2 is the best game ever made, everyone and their brother steps up and starts pointing out the games flaws, and rightfully so. The "Best Game Ever" needs to be beyond reproach, and HL2, with its constant loading, unremarkable AI and lack of any multiplayer, is pretty damn reproachable.

Half-Life 2 is, in my opinion, tied with Half-Life 1 as one of the top 3 spots for my fave game ever. The loading was far from constant in my opinion, the AI was certainly enough to keep me interested and engaged (especially at higher difficulties) and there's tons of multiplayer -- Counter-Strike Source for one, but the shortly-after-release-released Half-Life Deathmatch as well, and then the huge modding community. Besides that, though, I tend to judge games on only one basis. My top 3 games are all there based on single-player game, and that includes HL/HL2, even though I adore the multiplayer for both.

Anyways, arguing about a game being the best game ever is pointless because of differing tastes. You just need to accept that it's people's opinions, and you're probably not going to change that with your critiques. I mean obviously I tried to justify why HL2 is on my list for you, and now that we're in that discussion, then it makes sense to critique my reasons from there. But to say that the fact that lots of people say HL2 is really great, it's okay for everyone here to bitch and whine non-stop for a game that in no way has earned that much bitching or whining is just sort of a stretch to me.

[nonchalance]

To say that Vista brings nothing new to the table is pretty ignorant.

Not what he said, though.

He said that it won't solve the problems he wanted it to solve.

[Orphiuchus]

I really doubt anyone here knows more about how windows vista will effect games than gabe.

[Rangoth]

In the end its still a Microsoft product so it will be buggy as hell, run like crap, and crash all the time. Viva La Linux!

[Shifteh]

"Thirdly and finally for Lost Coast, it does in fact tie in with the story, explaining how Ravenholm became overrun with headcrabs."

There was a story? Aliens invade earth; kill aliens.

[Dirty Harry]

Gabe is being stupid.

1) When you launch a game under windows Vista, vista will unload all the unused services and applications from memory so it will be like running the game under DOS with only the essential programs running.

2) Games can actually ask Vista how powerful your system is for different things, like loading textures and alter the games graphical settings to cater for that.

3) There will be NO graphical difference between an ATI or nVidia card under Vista, the only difference will be overall performance.

4) WGF 2.0 allows GPU processing without CPU intervention

If that isn't an improvement over XP, specifically targeted towards gaming, I don't know what is.
Notice how you didnt mention the OPENGL problem that is come around. I for one do not support windows D3d personally and i find it to be more resource hoggish than OPENGL. So think before you speak cockbite.

[koorb]

Notice how you didnt mention the OPENGL problem that is come around. I for one do not support windows D3d personally and i find it to be more resource hoggish than OPENGL. So think before you speak cockbite.

Normally I would not bother replying to a idiotic comment like that, but I will make an exception in your case because this has to stop.

Vista's OpenGL routs through DirectX yes and for that there is a performance hit, but when you install your drivers for your graphics card. Vista will use the OpenGL engine that comes with those drivers so you WON'T have that performance hit.

And when I said earlier that Vista unloads all services and programs not essential to running the game, I should have mentioned, that includes the desktop.

[bapenguin]

Normally I would not bother replying to a idiotic comment like that, but I will make an exception in your case because this has to stop.

Vista's OpenGL routs through DirectX yes and for that there is a performance hit, but when you install your drivers for your graphics card. Vista will use the OpenGL engine that comes with those drivers so you WON'T have that performance hit.

And when I said earlier that Vista unloads all services and programs not essential to running the game, I should have mentioned, that includes the desktop.

That's pretty friggin cool.

[earthworm48]

If you wait around near the entrance to Ravenholme when Alyx says "we don't go there anymore" she tells you about how the Combine shelled it and why. Wow, that makes Lost Coast's explanation quite pointless, doesn't it?

"Well done and Fun"? I don't know. There was very little variation in that game, when people don't seem to notice much, and there were huge bits were it was just dull for the wrong reasons, such as NPCs talking to you and as the acting wasn't that hot it was rather dull, and those vehicle sections going on for too long, as well as parts where I'm somehow using my flashlight power to sprint across a long dull section. There were still some great and fun bit but I don't think its hould have gotten as goodreview scores as it did. Oh well, horses for courses I suppose.

[Kefkataran]

There was a story? Aliens invade earth; kill aliens.

Plenty of it. It just wasn't shoved down your throat by way of cutscene. That's the reason the story-telling is so well-loved in HL and HL2 in my opinion -- you get out of it what you want to. It's like real life, you're not just handed everything you need to know, but if you do some digging, you can figure it out.

If you wait around near the entrance to Ravenholme when Alyx says "we don't go there anymore" she tells you about how the Combine shelled it and why. Wow, that makes Lost Coast's explanation quite pointless, doesn't it?

They're just going a little more in-depth, I guess. Either way, Lost Coast wasn't really expected to have much story at all, since it's just a little one-level add-in that was taken out of the game.

[Pluvious]

Hopefully they mean the random witty comments from the NPC's will return. I was messing around with the free Blue Shift HL1 expansion and noticed they had included a lot more 'interaction' with the NPC's by having them say funny stuff all the time.

I can't help but be disapointed at noticing all the times HL2 missed the boat on doing this. Most all the NPC's had one little scripted quip and that was all. I wanted to see them react to my watching Brien and his TV speeches. A little "Mystery Science Theatre" comments from my group would have been classic. :(

[Varsity]

Psst...press E. Rebels in particular have loads of sayings.

"I'm glad there aren't any kids around to see this..."
"Well what do you want ME to do about it?"

[FunkyPoopMonkey]

I have never even heard of this magazine, and for some reason, this issue of it just showed up at my door. Is it free or something? I didn't subscribe to any magazine.

[H.Bogard]

Gabe is being stupid.

1) When you launch a game under windows Vista, vista will unload all the unused services and applications from memory so it will be like running the game under DOS with only the essential programs running.

2) Games can actually ask Vista how powerful your system is for different things, like loading textures and alter the games graphical settings to cater for that.

3) There will be NO graphical difference between an ATI or nVidia card under Vista, the only difference will be overall performance.

4) WGF 2.0 allows GPU processing without CPU intervention

If that isn't an improvement over XP, specifically targeted towards gaming, I don't know what is.

COOL ! when did you talk to microsoft about this? Gabe said he talked but i guess they ditched him because they wanted to hype you up sir ! :rolleyes:

[Pluvious]

Psst...press E. Rebels in particular have loads of sayings.

"I'm glad there aren't any kids around to see this..."
"Well what do you want ME to do about it?"

Thanks.. I was too busy trying to shoot their heads off so they would get out of my way to "use" them. They should talk on their own though.. like in Halo.

[Xerxes]

Gabe is full of hot air and has to let it out...

John (Carmack) and Tim (Sweeny), little guys in comparison haven't been belly(no pun intended) aching at all...

[Dirty Harry]

Normally I would not bother replying to a idiotic comment like that, but I will make an exception in your case because this has to stop.

Vista's OpenGL routs through DirectX yes and for that there is a performance hit, but when you install your drivers for your graphics card. Vista will use the OpenGL engine that comes with those drivers so you WON'T have that performance hit.

And when I said earlier that Vista unloads all services and programs not essential to running the game, I should have mentioned, that includes the desktop.
bad news about Windows Vista are rumors that it won’t support OpenGL natively. Instead OpenGL will run in emulation mode. Not surprisingly, the emulation layer is supposed to cause a significant performance hit.

I haven’t seen anything official from Microsoft, but it sort of makes sense, if the desktop itself runs on top of Direct3D.

If true, this would be a show stopper for me, because I use Lightwave which depends on OpenGL. 3D graphics are slow enough as it is. Any performance hit would be a big step backwards.

Windows Vista will provide two core 3D API specifications, DirectX9.L (formerly WGF1.0), which the main 3D GUI will utilise, and the yet to be finalised DirectX10 (WGF2.0), however at present it seems that MS will be layering OpenGL not on the more advanced DX10 specification, but the core DX9.L, pinning the specification to OpenGL1.4 and removing any IHV extension provisions.

With such a model in place there are several implications for OpenGL. First, its widely expected that the performance of OpenGL will be noticeably reduced by such an implementation (we may remember 3dfx were long since pilloried for not providing a native OpenGL ICD for a long time, instead laying it over their own Glide API). Pinning the specification to OpenGL1.4 and removing extensions will have implications for applications that are using shaders under OpenGL, which of course includes both workstation applications and games. Also, running OpenGL applications in windowed mode will require you to turn off the 3D Vista GUI, dropping the interface back to the Windows 2000 compatibility interface.


That is all boy.

[The Iron Weasel]

Gabe is full of hot air and has to let it out...

John (Carmack) and Tim (Sweeny), little guys in comparison haven't been belly(no pun intended) aching at all...

John Carmack, the Engine MASTER doesn't complain about 360, he praises it for how easy it is to work with. I'm sorry but Valve is on their first engine, and their second game. Carmack has made like 4 engines and lots of games and he loves the thing, Newell just needs to shut his mouth.

[nonchalance]

Uh, you did look at the dates on this thing, right?