Sony: Nintendo is Irrelevant [Archive]

EvilBob46

08-26-2005, 01:40 PM

MCV (http://www.mcvuk.com) has an article (http://www.mcvuk.com/newsitem.php?id=454) discussing the European launch of the PSP and offers a few quotes from a Sony representative regarding Nintendo.

According to him, "the idea of a handheld rivalry with Nintendo is an irrelevance." He further goes on to say that "those formats don’t appear in our planning," suggesting that the company doesn't particularly care about anything Nintendo is doing in the handheld market. Why is this? Apparently, "Nintendo knows its target audience, because it has really narrowed that down; and it’s pretty much defined by a boy or girl’s ability to admire Pokémon."

Oh the flame bait. Nintendo isn't the #1 player in the console market anymore, no doubt, but they're still a force to be reckoned with in the portable market. With almost 7 million Nintendo DS handhels sold and in light of the tremendous success of the GBA, you'd think Sony would be kind of worried...just a little bit.

Thanks ve3d. (http://ve3d.ign.com/)

Madhatter45

08-26-2005, 02:20 PM

Wow, that is a cocky statement. I will seriously laugh when this comes back to bite Sony in the ass.

Chagrinful

08-26-2005, 02:22 PM

I think all that needs to be said about this is LOL@Sony.

Zeal

08-26-2005, 02:24 PM

Actually, Sony is actually right. I can't believe I'm saying this.

The DS is just a toy compared to the PSP. It isn't even the same markets.

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 02:24 PM

OOOHH!! It's on now! Five bucks says Nintendo starts talkin' smack about Sony's mother.

PantherModern

08-26-2005, 02:25 PM

Agreed. I think the PSP is a very capable machine, and quite swanky, yes. But you know what I use mine for? Watching TV shows. That is about it. Until Sony steps up to the plate and makes the PSP a viable handheld GAMING device (by releasing a few games that don't suck), they can kiss Nintendo's butt as they walk to the bank. Everyone I know who bought a PSP (except me) has sold their PSP already. A few to reserve a 360, and a few even bought DS's. It all depends what you want. If Sony is going to market the PSP henceforth as a "Multimedia Machine" or somesuch, that is fine. But I know that I, a gamer, bought it under the pretense of it being an awesome gaming platform. As of right now, I am horribly disappointed. Besides, that do everything market is way oversaturated right now. A single browse through the posts over at engadget are proof of that.

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 02:25 PM

Actually, Sony is actually right. I can't believe I'm saying this.

The DS is just a toy compared to the PSP. It isn't even the same markets.
You are retarded. They are both fucking toys. The DS is just a toy that is actually fun to play.

Ghost_Saint

08-26-2005, 02:26 PM

Cocky, but none-the-less true. If Sony could get mature games out there on it's handheld, it would be the same story as PS2 vs. GC. The DS has gimics, but ones that don't really add enough, or aren't implemented enough, to make the technical superiority of the PSP something that customers would rather pass up.

Only problem is that the PSP doesn't have the right games. Where's Killzone for the PSP, or Madden. I think the second they get a Final Fantasy game(stress game, not movie) on the PSP, that thing is going to turn into hot (insert something good).

Aero Leviathan

08-26-2005, 02:26 PM

Way to twist the quote around. They're not saying Nintendo is irrelevant, they're saying the so-called 'rivarly' between them is irrelevant, because they target different markets. While I don't know if I agree with that or not, it's not an unreasonable statement at all.

automaton

08-26-2005, 02:27 PM

Zeal

08-26-2005, 02:29 PM

You are retarded. They are both fucking toys. The DS is just a toy that is actually fun to play.

I see the truth stings Nintendo fans. Good going, Sony.

For once, it ain't Kutaragi spewing bullshit.

Way to twist the quote around. They're not saying Nintendo is irrelevant, they're saying the so-called 'rivarly' between them is irrelevant, because they target different markets. While I don't know if I agree with that or not, it's not an unreasonable statement at all.

Well, no. I think Sony said it pretty accurately. Irrelevant. Period.

They are no longer considered a serious rival, which is true.

Xerxes

08-26-2005, 02:30 PM

One word... nintendogs....

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 02:31 PM

PantherModern

08-26-2005, 02:33 PM

Zeal

08-26-2005, 02:34 PM

Anyone who mentions "mature games" is automatically discounted as an idiot in my mind. Anyone who does not consider these people to be idiots are also discounted as being idiots. YOU are the reason PoP:WW sucks. YOU are the reason games forsake simplicity and good gameplay for dark colors and glam metal rock. You people make me fucking sick.

What an ignorant statement. So gamers who play mature games are considered 'stupid', huh? The industry disagrees with you, so you can blow Kirby happy dust up your ass.

YOU are the reason PoP:WW sucks. YOU are the reason games forsake simplicity and good gameplay for dark colors and glam metal rock.

And only diehard Nintendo fanboys would say something so overused and redundant. You could practically be a Nintendo PR spokesman.

TheBrainKills

08-26-2005, 02:34 PM

Sony can trash talk all they want, but Nintendo OBVIOUSLY did something right. A quick glance at the Japanese sales charts shows the DS selling at a 3 to 1 rate over the PSP. I'd love to hear Reggie Fils-Aime's response to these comments by Sony...

and heres the link:
http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEkVpkZklkBUvLXAxF.php

smells like Sony is admiting to failure, hell the DS is even outselling the PS2 now.

Ghost_Saint

08-26-2005, 02:34 PM

To add injury to insult:
Anyone who mentions "mature games" is automatically discounted as an idiot in my mind. Anyone who does not consider these people to be idiots are also discounted as being idiots. YOU are the reason PoP:WW sucks. YOU are the reason games forsake simplicity and good gameplay for dark colors and glam metal rock. You people make me fucking sick.

Can I get some Halo fans to flame this boy? I know that he's the only one who doesn't like games that are targeted at 18-25 year olds.

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 02:35 PM

What an ignorant statement. So gamers who play mature games are considered 'stupid', huh? The industry disagrees with you, so you can blow Kirby happy dust up your ass.
No, people like you who do not pay attention to what I am fucking saying are considered stupid. Way to ruin the fucking industry, jack-ass.

Aero Leviathan

08-26-2005, 02:37 PM

Well, no. I think Sony said it pretty accurately. Irrelevant. Period.

Except they didn't say that. Reading comprehension much?

Zeal

08-26-2005, 02:37 PM

No, people like you who do not pay attention to what I am fucking saying are considered stupid. Way to ruin the fucking industry, jack-ass.

This is exactly the kind of person the DS and Revolution were made for. I rest my case.

One word... nintendogs....
lol

PacerDawn

08-26-2005, 02:39 PM

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 02:40 PM

This is exactly the kind of person the DS and Revolution were made for. I rest my case.

lol
People who enjoy gameplay and don't wear fucking mascara to high school and spend time writing in their fucking dead journals? I agree. The entire "mature" movement is so fucking immature it hurts.

Zeal

08-26-2005, 02:43 PM

NoName

08-26-2005, 02:43 PM

Wow, what flames. It seems the PSP and DS mean a whole lot to some people... or something like that.

Anyways, if the DS is doing so good now, I wonder what the sales look like once the online component kicks off. Assuming it's not pushed back till forever and turns out to be somewhat decent.

roboflavinoid

08-26-2005, 02:48 PM

Man, you guys really eat this stuff up.

They're competitors, and one is trash-talking the other. That's what competitors do. Leave it to the fanboys in both camps to turn it into a fistfight.

Who cares who said what?

president_fred

08-26-2005, 02:49 PM

The quote is taken fairly out of context but then again a good flamebait gets the appetite going I guess. I don't read it as sony saying the DS is irrelavent as Aero Leviathan
was saying. If they did of course that would be pretty arrogant as the DS has outsold the PSP hasn't it? Not sure thats why I am asking.
PS. Zeal why do you feel the need defend mature games so much. In the words of an excellent bloke "Me thinks thou dost protest to loudly. ;)" I am pretty sure both can coexist. Although I don't think anyone would claim that halo or PoP:WW are really more mature, (not talking bout the ratings here) than many younger rated games.

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 02:52 PM

Although I don't think anyone would claim that halo or PoP:WW are really more mature, (not talking bout the ratings here) than many younger rated games.
Yes, but they tried way too hard to be mature. They went with the additude of "fuck this awesome, light-hearted gameplay. What we need charaters in metal thongs, and Godsmack!" That is the additude I hate. And that zeal bitch oozes it.

Zeal

08-26-2005, 02:56 PM

TheBrainKills

08-26-2005, 02:57 PM

every once in a while I like to stick the knife in and give it a twist ;)

I don't think Sony realizes that they are competing for the same dollar. If I had $200 burning a hole in my pocket and wanted some mobile gaming for my trip coming up, I would buy a DS and Advance Wars DS, in a flash! Oh.. and I think I am a mature gamer ... well I can be at times.

see colon

08-26-2005, 02:59 PM

Don't forget, Nintendo was firmly entrenched as the console leader only a few years ago. Nobody could even envision them anywhere but on top, and where are they now?

Yesterday:
"Nintendo can never be unseated as the King of Consoles!"

Today:
"Uh, ok, I was wrong about that but... Handhelds! They can never be unseated as the King of Handhelds!!"
what video game history did you live through? the only home console generation nintendo was clearly the dominent party was with the NES. the 16bit generation was almost a statistical tie between nintendo and sega. if by "a few years ago" you mean 1982, then your statement is correct.

Cocky, but none-the-less true. If Sony could get mature games out there on it's handheld, it would be the same story as PS2 vs. GC.
except it wasn't GC vs PS2, it was GC vs. PS2 vs. Xbox. history has proven that the videogame market is large enough for at LEAST 2 competators. it isn't until a 3rd contendor walks onto the stage that someone has to tap out. sega was the first big player to start purging resources durring the 32bit generation, and any company other than microsoft would have given up on the xbox after loosing the amount of capital they did. although, to be fair, i don't think any company but microsoft would have planned on loosing that much capital, much less been comfortable with the idea.

anyway, the point is that it's going to take more than one handheld (by that i mean one handheld that is actualy "done right") before nintendo is going to loose the portable market.

Xerxes

08-26-2005, 03:00 PM

I'm sorry when I said the word Nintendogs.. I mean look at how it's catching... I mean I rather play with fake dogs than watch Riddick on a psp... O_o

Darkmatter

08-26-2005, 03:00 PM

The fact is, Nintendo has a good grip on the handheld market, but nothing lasts forever. Their console slip is the perfect example of that. What their weakness in the handheld market is, is that they're dominance is based on their focus on the kids market. And while thats a huge market, any time you narrow your market you are more open to a disaster. Especially when your talking about kids, who are by far the most fickel and flakey segment of the market. Whats hot and "cool" one day is dorksville central garbage the next. If your just looking at Nintendo from the handheld market, its a good example of "putting all your eggs in one basket."

As for Nintendo in general, I've known for a long time that they would falter. I knew it the second I saw how they were going to handle the "Mortal Kombat" issue. It was clear to me that they not only lacked a basic understanding of the gamers, but that they had let their ego's get the better of them. They had let their stubborn thick headed ego's convince them that they knew what was best for the rest of us. Any time a company gets to that point they start to lose touch with their customers, and fast.

And guess what?

They did...

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 03:00 PM

That's the problem, they're not really considered mature games, they're simply games with more 'mature' themes. In other words, they are games that do not specifically target children, but a general audience. Anything can fall under such a category; Halo, KoTOR, Jade Empire, Darkwatch, etc., on and on.

Nintendo fans seem to have a problem with games that don't intentionally target children, saying they lack gameplay, innovation and all this other Nintendo fanboy rhetoric. Nothing but excuses for Nintendo losing the industry to superior developers.

Nintendo is going to realize sooner or later that older gamers don't want to play Mario and Kirby for the rest of their lives.
Spoken like someone who has not tried their games and has an irrational hatred for anything with colors.

If by maturity, you mean The Longest Journey, or Grim Fandango, I am all fucking with you. It is just that when most people talk about maturity, they think of the most immature games ever made.

president_fred

08-26-2005, 03:04 PM

Does it have to be a case of one or the other Zeal and Crazyd isn't plausible that while certain developers do explore mature themes with fantastic gameplay while others use maturity per se as a selling point. I think jade empires gameplay wasn't exactly deep or fantastic but there are others. IMHO anyone who doesn't think that nintendo creates fantastic and innovative gameplay (not plots perhaps) in their games (few and far between as they are) isn't a fan of videogames or else doesn't have a nintendo console. They simply choose a different estetique which I am not always very into but so be it.

LiquidRain

08-26-2005, 03:04 PM

This has turned worse than a political thread.

thecrazyd would make a good point if he wasn't so extremist about it. I'd say: Just because it's a cute, cartoony game, doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed be adults and should be immediately frowned upon. I like my Unreal Tournament and yadda yadda as much as anyone else, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy Kirby Canvas Curse or Nintendogs because it's "cutesy". A good example would be that hating Advance Wars because it has cartoony graphics is an extremely dumb thing to say, considering how in-depth the strategy is and how well-balanced the units are and how well-thought out everything is in general.

More than a few people I know who are fully grown, matured people, have fallen all over Nintendogs. If I had the money, I would too, but I don't.

That said: I prefer the Nintendo DS' game lineup to the PSP's. That is my opinion. Whatever system you prefer, good on you, watch me care if you disagree. Just don't disagree for what amounts to a stupid reason.

Heretic Machine

08-26-2005, 03:05 PM

The DS is just a toy compared to the PSP. It isn't even the same markets.

Keep telling yourself that Ken.

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 03:06 PM

see colon

08-26-2005, 03:10 PM

If your just looking at Nintendo from the handheld market, its a good example of "putting all your eggs in one basket."
i would say that nintendo has put it's eggs in 2 baskets (the GBA and DS), but are walking down the same rocky road to sell all of the eggs at the same market. there's a little less risk on the trip, but if noone buys the eggs once you get there you're still screwed

Ghost_Saint

08-26-2005, 03:11 PM

I agree completely. But discounting an entire system based on "maturity" is a very imature and idiotic thing to do. So is forsaking depth and gameplay for mature themes. Maturity is the least important thing a game has to have.

If you're looking for just good gameplay, then there's plenty of games that completely ditch the story and just give you a great playing time(Quake 3 comes to mind). But fact is that good story line sells like nothing else. FFVII was THE killer app of the PS1, and it wasn't because the gameplay was something that hadn't been done before. If you want to attract the people with money to spend (16-30) then developing games with a storyline that appeals to them is something that you simply can't miss. Halo was admittedly the same 15 seconds of gameplay through the entire game, the story of the game was what kept you going through it.

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 03:15 PM

If you're looking for just good gameplay, then there's plenty of games that completely ditch the story and just give you a great playing time(Quake 3 comes to mind). But fact is that good story line sells like nothing else. FFVII was THE killer app of the PS1, and it wasn't because the gameplay was something that hadn't been done before. If you want to attract the people with money to spend (16-30) then developing games with a storyline that appeals to them is something that you simply can't miss. Halo was admittedly the same 15 seconds of gameplay through the entire game, the story of the game was what kept you going through it.
Gameplay > Story > Graphics > Maturity. I do not think story is the same as maturity. I do not really see how the two relate.

Mithridates

08-26-2005, 03:15 PM

This whole 'mature' vs. 'kiddy games' seems to be a dead end. To me it looks as if the justification for mature or child is based on the graphics or the atmosphere. To me it's more about the intellectual capacity of the game. How complex/deep the story is in the game, AND how complex/deep the gameplay of the game is. Final Fantasy 7 is a 'mature' game. It deals with a lot of more adult elements in the main storyline, and the gameplay in and of itself is more complex than say... Kirby's Pinball. I played FF7 when I was like 12 and enjoyed it. I also played Kirby's pinball and enjoyed it as well. I don't think the industry is being ruined by marketing towards either of the two audiences...

I'm not sure if that post has a point or not... but it's being posted anyways :)

Ghost_Saint

08-26-2005, 03:19 PM

Gameplay > Story > Graphics > Maturity. I do not think story is the same as maturity. I do not really see how the two relate.

The point I'm trying to make is that story is important, and that a story with more mature themes will appeal more to older gamers. I totally agree with you '>__>__>' set up there, maturity isn't the most important thing, but it's not something you can simply throw out the window.

Adults feel a lot more comfortable sharing their love of video games with everyone they know when the game isn't 'kiddy'.

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 03:21 PM

Immature adults feel a lot more comfortable sharing their love of video games with everyone they know when the game isn't 'kiddy'.
Much better.

*Edit* Maybe insecure is a better word.

Zanzibar

08-26-2005, 03:24 PM

<troll>
YOU PUSSY PSP AND DS OWNERZ CAN FIGHT ALL U WANT FOR THE BRAGGING RIGHTS TO THE WIMPY HANDHELD MARKET - XBOX 360 WILL OWNZ U ALL FOR WHERE IT REALLY COUNTS!!!
</troll>

Seriously. This is the opening salvo for Sony trying to label the Nintendo handhelds the same thing that has apparently worked for the Gamecube - "kid games vs. mature games." Basically, Sony is trying to say 'if you own a handheld, when you're ready to grow up, buy a PSP.'

I've gotten used to thumbsticks, though. Wish the PSP had thumbstick capability.

Bydo_Empire

08-26-2005, 03:24 PM

Don't forget, Nintendo was firmly entrenched as the console leader only a few years ago.
Well... uh... they were the King of Consoles back in 94. That was ten years ago. And Sega gave them quite a battle. In an industry only ~35 years old, that's hardly "a few years go."

The PSP post-launch is obviously suffering from a severe lack of games (*almost* as bad as the DS launch), which reflects in the sales numbers. I believe the DS beat the PSP in hardware and software in all territories last month. I'm sure once GTA comes out, or a FF game things will improve for the PSP. Although I wonder if the same casual gamers that bought ps1's and ps2's in droves will plop down $300 for a portable. I'm not sure the market is there. I guess we'll find out in a couple years.

Ghost_Saint

08-26-2005, 03:25 PM

Much better.

I'll put it in Nintendo terms for you.

The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time stands as the favorite Zelda game even over Majora's Mask. Even Nintendo is bending to this because the next Zelda game isn't going to be at all like the last one, they're going to make it more mature.

bapenguin

08-26-2005, 03:26 PM

Umm...Sony on crack....check.

Both handhelds have their place...if Sony is trying to say they don't have the same target audience...that's somewhat true. I think the PSP is targetted more towards the gadget geek than the gamer....the DS is strictly gamer and nintendo fans.

Zeal

08-26-2005, 03:37 PM

Basically, Sony is trying to say 'if you own a handheld, when you're ready to grow up, buy a PSP.'

That should actually be the official tagline.

Rakael

08-26-2005, 03:42 PM

BenSkywalker

08-26-2005, 03:52 PM

What 'mature' games are headed to the PSP? I ask as I have had my PSP since launch and the only thing worth playing on it is older games released for systems other then Sony's. I use mine every day to game with- but certainly nothing in the pathetic PSP lineup.

Right now I'm looking at titles aimed at mature audiences- not 16-23 year old slightly older male children, mature audiences mind you and the only thing I'm really seeing on the horizon for the handhelds is Age of Empires- and that is NDS exclusive. Why is that?

I purchased my PSP as a media machine with the intention of having SOME decent games for it- Sony has failed in an absolute sense that I didn't really think was possible. GameGear had a vastly superior lineup in its day, and in relative terms its sales were stronger then what the PSP is seeing(DS is already starting to dwarf the PSP and Nin barely launched their killer app in the US). I'm hoping the PSP doesn't become a dead platform prior to Sony releasing a much stronger battery pack- playing anything worthwhile on the PSP require a bump in clock speed and very short battery life is a result.

Kamalot

08-26-2005, 03:56 PM

Yep. Death Jr. is Soooooo MATURE!

If you actually RTA, they call the DS a gimmick and say that the only players are those who like Pokemon.

So, all of the research that says gamers aren't using their PSP, for games OR multimedia (http://psp.joystiq.com/entry/1234000463056006/), that DS owners on average are over 20 or that the DS is kicking all kinds of ass means what?

This looks like a SMEAR CAMPAIGN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smear_campaign) through and through. When you are behind, loosing and scared, say a bunch of shit to make the other team look bad. Nothing the Sony guy said was based in fact, it was all just designed to make Nintendo look bad.

Sony has no future in the PSP except PS2 ports. It is sad. When the most anticipated games are GTA and a compilation of old Burnout levels, all hope is lost. The PSP is a cool gadget, but not a great gaming machine.

When you can't compete, slander.

(btw, is there even a Pokemon game for the DS? If people are buying it for Pokemon, how come there are so many DS' sold? Maybe Sony should start a Piokemon game if they want to sell units.)

Blue

08-26-2005, 04:05 PM

I picked up a PSP on day one, played it about a month and a half, two months, and then put it down. I can only take so much Lumines, Hot Shots, and Ac!d over and over again. Contrary to popular belief, I didn't buy the PSP as a "multi-media device" but rather as a game system. The fact that it can play smaller versions of films I already have does me no good because, if I'm going to watch a film, I'm going to do it on my HDTV. Sony lacks a good deal of games and that's what's killing it. Never mind whether these games are mature or not (though Hot Shots, Lumines, or Wipeout I wouldn't look to as terribly mature), the fact that they have nothing for me to do on the system is what's shooting them in the foot. I could care less if a game is kiddie or mature, I'm going to buy a game that I have a good time playing. If I'm having fun with Kirby, it'll be in my system. If I'm having fun with God of War, it too will be in my system. Who cares who the game company is targeting. I'll get the best of both worlds if I can manage to not put all of my love into one camp and just take and play the games I'm given.

That said, I'm bored with my PSP. I never use it. Already traded it in and have some store credit that I'm 99% sure I'm going to put on a DS. Why? Because they have fun games to play and their library is significantly larger. Sony is stretching themselves too thin and if they want to peg themselves as mature and Nintendo as kiddie, then they too are simply targeting a very specific audience. All I know is I would rather play something that's fun and if it doesn't include buckets of blood or words that would make a sailor blush, I'll still play it. Limiting yourself and calling yourself a gamer is a contradiction.

FunkyPoopMonkey

08-26-2005, 04:13 PM

Every week with these kinds of school-yard taunts, Sony proves that it's the most immature company in the industry. So sad.

Zeal

08-26-2005, 04:15 PM

Zeal, I hope to God you don't honestly beleive what you are saying and are just trolling. If so, then I pity you...well, not really. Get off my planet either way.

You keep throwing around the words "Nintendo Fanboy," and yet you are so suckered in by Sony's "we are mature, dark, and cool" sales pitch that you too are *gasp* a fanboy.

You mean besides that fact that I have stated numerously that I have no loyalty to either one? I slam Microsoft when they make stupid mistakes, and the same goes for Nintendo and Sony. Take Microsoft releasing two versions of the 360 at launch, for example. Absolute stupidity.

I also give respect where it's due, and I respect Sony for actually saying what the rest of the industry has been thinking. The same doesn't go for Kutaragi's comments, however. He does meth.

People need to stop misinterpreting shit. All Sony was saying is that Nintendo is irrelevant in the sense that they are not targeting the same market. Sony is marketing the PSP as a multimedia handheld platform, (movies, games, music, etc.) whereas the DS is marketed to children.

TrackZero

08-26-2005, 04:48 PM

Irrelevance is what I'd say about the PSP, so it's good to know views are shared.

TrackZero

08-26-2005, 04:51 PM

To add injury to insult:

Can I get some Halo fans to flame this boy? I know that he's the only one who doesn't like games that are targeted at 18-25 year olds.

Heh, considering he wasn't talking about Halo, that's quite the odd statement. As far as games such as PoP:WW, 18-25 is not the market they're targeting. It's more like 14-16. It's a young teenage boys concept of what "mature" is.

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 04:51 PM

whereas the DS is marketed to children.
You are the biggest ass backwards dick of all time. Have you seen the "Touching is good" campaign? They are definately not marketing to kids. Just because you think that having no games at all is better than having excellent games with vivid colors does not make it so. In fact, it makes you a dumbass. Sure, the PSP does alot of things, but none of it well. It is a mediocre MP3 player and video player that has no fucking games. But those non-existant games sure are mature.

TrackZero

08-26-2005, 04:54 PM

People need to stop misinterpreting shit. All Sony was saying is that Nintendo is irrelevant in the sense that they are not targeting the same market. Sony is marketing the PSP as a multimedia handheld platform, (movies, games, music, etc.) whereas the DS is marketed to children.

Actually, no, they're talking about the same market:

"Nintendo knows its target audience, because it has really narrowed that down; and it’s pretty much defined by a boy or girl’s ability to admire Pokémon."

You can't slander the games of your competitor and then turn around and claim you're not even in their market because you're a "multimedia" device. Otherwise that kind of comment would have been moot. It's quite obvious they're just shit-talking because they lost a battle they thought would be a clean sweep.

Whether you can't see this or not is beside the point, because everyone else here knows the score.

Zeal

08-26-2005, 05:01 PM

Blue

08-26-2005, 05:04 PM

If you're seriously gonna sit there and tell me Nintendo doesn't develop its games for a younger audience, you're in denial.

How's Resident Evil 4 working out for you? Enjoying it or is it too much of a kiddie game?

FunkyPoopMonkey

08-26-2005, 05:05 PM

How the hell can you possibly get offended by such a statement? Nintendo themselves states they market to a younger demographic. They call themselves a fucking toy company, for crying outloud.

If you're seriously gonna sit there and tell me Nintendo doesn't develop its games for a younger audience, you're in denial.

No, Nintendo says they develop for ALL AGES, and by god they do. The only games that me, my older friends, my younger friends, and my little sisters can ALL enjoy, are Nintendo games. Always.

And are you implying that M Rated games are not toys? Newsflash kid. Video games have always been toys and they always will be. A toy is an object that offers fun and entertainment. Videogames are these.

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 05:05 PM

How the hell can you possibly get offended by such a statement? Nintendo themselves states they market to a younger demographic. They call themselves a fucking toy company, for crying outloud.

If you're seriously gonna sit there and tell me Nintendo doesn't develop its games for a younger audience, you're in denial.
Who cares who the fuck they market to (even though they are not marketing to kids with the DS, and you are a dumbass). They make games that are fucking fun. Yeah, they make toys. So does fucking Sony. Games are toys. They just do not cater to insecure assholes who are ashamed of the size of their penises. MINE HAS A BIGGER SCREEN!!!11 MINE HAS MORE POWER!!!11 Well, mine has games, jackass.

Zeal

08-26-2005, 05:05 PM

How's Resident Evil 4 working out for you? Enjoying it or is it too much of a kiddie game?

I don't understand how a Capcom developed game (also coming to PS2) has to do with anything Nintendo develops.

TrackZero

08-26-2005, 05:06 PM

How the hell can you possibly get offended by such a statement? Nintendo themselves states they market to a younger demographic. They call themselves a fucking toy company, for crying outloud.

If you're seriously gonna sit there and tell me Nintendo doesn't develop its games for a younger audience, you're in denial.

No, maybe you are. They target their games to, exactly what you pointed out, ALL audiences. Zelda, Mario, Metroid, these three are meant (and are in practice as well) for everyone to enjoy.

Geez, make a few million on one kids game (Pokemon) and another few million on a dog simulator (Nintendogs) and all of the sudden the "mature" kids don't want your system, out of fear that someone may think they're playing said games. Sheesh.

Kamalot summed it up nicely above. Fact of the matter is the DS's average user is over 20, and it's vastly outsold the PSP. Sony's the one in denial.

slothy

08-26-2005, 05:09 PM

As far as games such as PoP:WW, 18-25 is not the market they're targeting. It's more like 14-16. It's a young teenage boys concept of what "mature" is.

Only 1/3 of all gamers are kids. I can promise you that PoP:WW is NOT targeting 1/3 of the market. The Mature rating should also give that away.

Twigz'N'Berries

08-26-2005, 05:11 PM

Keep telling yourself that Ken.

I kind of have to agree with him to a point. PSP (when it gets to a lower price point...my guess is around the time 360 launches) it will appeal to the casual gamer a lot more. Just like those stupid UMDs are going to keep selling. The PSP offers a wide variety of options...the DS just isn't as versatile. For people who don't care as much about games as most people here do, the PSP is the more attractive machine (once the price drops a bit).

TrackZero

08-26-2005, 05:12 PM

Only 1/3 of all gamers are kids. I can promise you that PoP:WW is NOT targeting 1/3 of the market. The Mature rating should also give that away.

If you enjoyed the game and are over that range, have at it. But the game was targeted at teenagers (despite the rating, this is the same reason 14-16 year olds loved "American Pie" which was rated R). It's a type of immature, maturity (say that ten times fast).

Blue

08-26-2005, 05:12 PM

I don't understand how a Capcom developed game (also coming to PS2) has to do with anything Nintendo develops.

So you're just speaking about games that Nintendo develops? Thought we were discussing the console as a whole seeing as how the argument here seems to be focused on which system has the better titles and where they skew: the PSP or the DS. Sure Nintendo didn't develop Res 4, but it was put on their system - same with the Splinter Cell titles which are far from child-like. People want to paint Nintendo as a nothing-but-kids company, but games made accessible to anyone does not automatically mean that only children play those titles. I'm much more interested in something like, say, Animal Crossing (not so much now, mind you, but when it first hit) over the next Halo. Why? It's different and it makes me relax in ways that a FPS can't. Does that make me an immature gamer? Of course not.

Besides, didn't Sony come out with Jumping Flash? Are they automatically a kiddie company now? Simply because the Big N chooses to make games that can be enjoyed by everyone and not just a person who can see rated R movies doesn't mean they don't know a mature title when one comes along.

Zeal

08-26-2005, 05:15 PM

http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=8254

http://www.pspworld.com/sony-psp/psp/psp-outselling-ds-by-large-margin-000834.php

http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=7932

http://www.nlgaming.com/nl/asp/id_5439/nl/newsDisp.htm

It's as simple as that. Anyone claiming the DS is 'owning' the PSP is just full of crap. If Nintendo currently has the lead, it is only because the unit costs much less. They're pretty much even.

Then again, this article says DS has a slight lead, but also backs up my comment about the PSP.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/23/news_6128046.html

The comments also show that users view the PSP as a multimedia device more than a gaming machine.

TrackZero

08-26-2005, 05:15 PM

I kind of have to agree with him to a point. PSP (when it gets to a lower price point...my guess is around the time 360 launches) it will appeal to the casual gamer a lot more. Just like those stupid UMDs are going to keep selling. The PSP offers a wide variety of options...the DS just isn't as versatile. For people who don't care as much about games as most people here do, the PSP is the more attractive machine (once the price drops a bit).

Casual gamers do not spend more on a PSP than they would on a Xbox. That simple. PSP was targeted at the hardcore market, yet failed to deliver on the game development end.

That said, you're right in that once the price drops some more and we see more titles finally get released next year, it should do better in sales. But it's still certainlly not for "casual" gamers. The DS is (which is why many people I know have purchased it, who I didn't even expect to).

TrackZero

08-26-2005, 05:17 PM

http://news.spong.com/detail/news.asp?prid=8254

It's as simple as that. Anyone claiming the DS is 'owning' the PSP is just full of crap.

Great work Zeal, quote an article from '24th Jan 2005', shortly after the PSP launch and when many of the current high-selling DS titles hadn't even yet been released. Quite a bit has changed in, oh, I don't know, 7 months.

Damnit. Just stop posting man.

TheBrainKills

08-26-2005, 05:22 PM

I would like to thank Zeal for being brainwashed by Sony, very entertaining.

But that link is slightly outdated.

"The most recent sales charts, concluding on January 16 2005"

Do you have any other links?

Those other links just say Sony shipped 250,000 units, they did not sell them yet. Big difference there.

...Damn Trackzero beatme to it.

deathfan

08-26-2005, 05:24 PM

and Zeal. Just fuck off.

H.Bogard

08-26-2005, 05:26 PM

I dont see why $ony (yeah i know) calls its handheld a more mature platform than the nintendo DS, all i see on the psp are card games and sports titles, the latter of which are lousy ports/alternatives to consol versions

Seriously, I cant think of one MUST-BUY title for the psp...GTA portable? no thanks I`ve already had more than enough with san andreas...

Zeal

08-26-2005, 05:28 PM

CapnBob

08-26-2005, 05:31 PM

Sony is marketing the PSP as a multimedia handheld platform, (movies, games, music, etc.) whereas the DS is marketed to children.

Perhaps that is what Sony is claiming they are doing, but unfortunately they gave pretty much everyone the impression that it would be primarily a gaming system, and they have thus far failed to deliver. Not only that, but the market for a "multimedia handheld platform" doesn't seem to actually exist in any sort of revelant functional capacity. Maybe it exists in a "hey, that sounds cool" sort of way, but not in a "I actually use this" sort of way. The question is not whether Nintendo is revelant to Sony's intended market, but whether Sony's intended market is relevant at all.

Also, what you don't seem to be grasping is that Nintendo has been rather successfully marketing the DS to both children and adults. You are confusing Nintendo's refusal to ignore the children's market with a total abandonment of the adult market. Sony WANTS you to think this way because they are ignoring the children's market completely and it's more convenient for them if people view Nintendo as the polar opposite, but they aren't.

The fact of the matter is as I have said before... Sony is trying to carve their own niche with the PSP out of the adult handheld gaming market, the ipod market and the portable DVD player market. The problem is that they cannot compete with portable DVD players because their media is inferior, and that market was never huge anyway. They also cannot compete with the ipod because, frankly, the PSP is rather poorly-designed for a portable mp3 device.

So, what they have presented us with is an extravagantly overpowered and overpriced handheld gaming machine whose only significant target audience is the adult handheld gamer, which they either have to steal from Nintendo by convincing gamers that Nintendo has nothing for them or they have to build that luxury handheld gamer demographic from scratch. It's not an easy sell with such a high price tag and so few games, especially when it largely is viewed as a platform for buying handheld duplicates of the same games and movies that its target audience already purchased for their PS2.

It's an uphill battle for them because they designed a niche luxury item that they expect to become the new industry standard. Of course, they can't come right out and SAY this, so they have to take pot-shots at the competition and hope to bully DS or GBA owners into buying a PSP.

Drinking_Buddy

08-26-2005, 05:36 PM

I think that Sony has really dropped the ball on the PSP. Its a great system, has alot of great features. But no good games.

How did that happen? Sony's got the money and the connections to get somebody to make a great game for the PSP. So why didn't they do that?

Now with Nintendo getting to start pushing our there big name titles, it might be too late for them to have serious impact on the market.

TrackZero

08-26-2005, 05:37 PM

Uh I'm aware the links were older, that why I edited the post and followed it by an up to date link at the bottom. If you actually read the the damn link, it states the DS has a slight edge over the PSP, and that is due to cost.

The PSP costs much more. Once the unit price falls, I expect the PSP to sell more. It offers more capabilities than the DS. That isn't even argueable.

The thing is viewed as a multimedia system.

Speaking with hindsight, that may have been why it held an edge for a short while. But again, clearly the DS took the lead with better games being released and a far lower price point (which it's already just dropped in price again the other day). It can also be said that once it became apparent of the systems capabilities against the DS (once they had been in the marketplace for a quarter) is when we started seeing the PSP deline and the DS sales gain even faster....bah, I'm just stopping now. There's no sense wasting my time even discussing this with you. Stop being a fanboy and stop changing this thread's topic. This thread is simple. Sony just said a fucking lame comment to cover up their failure, for which I say they can go fuck themselves.

If you love your PSP, again, great for you, but it's an undeniable fact that the DS is the current leader of the portable GAMING market. Which is what this market is, make no mistake or excuses for it.

Zanzibar

08-26-2005, 05:37 PM

Great work Zeal, quote an article from '24th Jan 2005', shortly after the PSP launch and when many of the current high-selling DS titles hadn't even yet been released. Quite a bit has changed in, oh, I don't know, 7 months.

Damnit. Just stop posting man.

I'm seeing three other links to more recent data in Zeal's posts, most recent one from last month, all of them confirming that the DS is nowhere near dominating the PSP. I also remember hearing about those numbers last month. He may have added links to his original post, but I knew his numbers to be true. I'm surprised the rest of you didn't know, and jumped down his throat for using an outdated link. You should know the score by now.

Does Nintendo use bright colors and cutesy characters primarily? Hell yes. Do those translate into easy access for the younger crowd? You betcha. Fair or not, it's pretty obvious that Nintendo isn't fighting the perception that they're geared towards the younger market, so WHY ARE YOU fighting that battle for them??

Zeal

08-26-2005, 05:41 PM

The PSP's UMD medium is not very good for movies, but I do respect Sony for creating a handheld with multimedia capabilities in mind, not just games. I own a PSP and DS, and don't really play either. I don't consider the handheld market a serious platform for games, but rather something to play on the fly or as you wait.

And yes, most DS games are in fact marketed to a young audience.

I'm seeing three other links to more recent data in Zeal's posts, most recent one from last month, all of them confirming that the DS is nowhere near dominating the PSP. I also remember hearing about those numbers last month. He may have added links to his original post, but I knew his numbers to be true. I'm surprised the rest of you didn't know, and jumped down his throat for using an outdated link. You should know the score by now.

Does Nintendo use bright colors and cutesy characters primarily? Hell yes. Do those translate into easy access for the younger crowd? You betcha. Fair or not, it's pretty obvious that Nintendo isn't fighting the perception that they're geared towards the younger market, so WHY ARE YOU fighting that battle for them??

In response to that, I'd just like to state that it was an extremely unbiased response, and I appreciate that. I will never under any circumstances post misleading or inaccurate information. I do not have a brand loyalty to any developer.

With that said, I would like to post two factual statements that provide irrefutable proof supporting my overall argument:

1. Nintendo themselves admit they primarily market to children, always have and always will.

2. If the DS is in fact outselling the PSP, (which is questionable, considering people only post links to support their point of view) it is by a very small margain. People must consider the price comparison of the units when taking this into consideration.

That's all I'm saying.

TheBrainKills

08-26-2005, 05:52 PM

I'm seeing three other links to more recent data in Zeal's posts, most recent one from last month, all of them confirming that the DS is nowhere near dominating the PSP. I also remember hearing about those numbers last month. He may have added links to his original post, but I knew his numbers to be true. I'm surprised the rest of you didn't know, and jumped down his throat for using an outdated link. You should know the score by now.

according to the gamespot article:

"When looking at the two handhelds in terms of sales figures, the Nintendo DS has sold approximately 2.2 million units in Japan since its launch on December 2, versus the PSP's 1.39 million units since it went on sale 10 days later"

isn't that 800,000 units more? Thats still a hefty lead.

Heretic Machine

08-26-2005, 05:54 PM

1. Nintendo themselves admit they primarily market to children, always have and always will.

Well, whatever, but I saw five other college students with DS's today. And I loaned mine out on two different occassions during the day. They must be doing something right, since I've only seen one person with a PSP -ever- on this campus.

And he wasn't even playing PSP games, he was playing an emulator with Super Mario World on it :p

H.Bogard

08-26-2005, 06:06 PM

Perhaps that is what Sony is claiming they are doing, but unfortunately they gave pretty much everyone the impression that it would be primarily a gaming system, and they have thus far failed to deliver. Not only that, but the market for a "multimedia handheld platform" doesn't seem to actually exist in any sort of revelant functional capacity. Maybe it exists in a "hey, that sounds cool" sort of way, but not in a "I actually use this" sort of way. The question is not whether Nintendo is revelant to Sony's intended market, but whether Sony's intended market is relevant at all.

Also, what you don't seem to be grasping is that Nintendo has been rather successfully marketing the DS to both children and adults. You are confusing Nintendo's refusal to ignore the children's market with a total abandonment of the adult market. Sony WANTS you to think this way because they are ignoring the children's market completely and it's more convenient for them if people view Nintendo as the polar opposite, but they aren't.

The fact of the matter is as I have said before... Sony is trying to carve their own niche with the PSP out of the adult handheld gaming market, the ipod market and the portable DVD player market. The problem is that they cannot compete with portable DVD players because their media is inferior, and that market was never huge anyway. They also cannot compete with the ipod because, frankly, the PSP is rather poorly-designed for a portable mp3 device.

So, what they have presented us with is an extravagantly overpowered and overpriced handheld gaming machine whose only significant target audience is the adult handheld gamer, which they either have to steal from Nintendo by convincing gamers that Nintendo has nothing for them or they have to build that luxury handheld gamer demographic from scratch. It's not an easy sell with such a high price tag and so few games, especially when it largely is viewed as a platform for buying handheld duplicates of the same games and movies that its target audience already purchased for their PS2.

It's an uphill battle for them because they designed a niche luxury item that they expect to become the new industry standard. Of course, they can't come right out and SAY this, so they have to take pot-shots at the competition and hope to bully DS or GBA owners into buying a PSP.

:eek: DAMN!!!
THAT IS ONE HUGE FUCKING POST!
Do you really expect someone to read all that?
Not offending anything you said, but please...if you want to make a point...do so in a convenient way

Kamalot

08-26-2005, 06:10 PM

Just like those stupid UMDs are going to keep selling.
Actually, UMDs aren't selling well at all.

One reader points out that if you factor in Playstation Portable sales than only about five percent of Sony’s portable gaming base bought a UMD movie (that’s assuming that each person only bought one.) (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/psp/umd-movies-sales-actually-suck-109728.php)

And in Japan, they are doing quite poorly as well.

Only 10% of those polled had ever used the PSP to watch a UMD movie, and a majority did not plan on buying any UMD movies. (http://psp.joystiq.com/entry/1234000463056006/)

Just because lots of companies shovel their movies onto the dics, does not mean people are buying them.

Talltale

08-26-2005, 06:10 PM

I for one am actually regretting the cash I plunked down on my PSP. All I use it for is MP3's. Woo.. Coulda got the same thing for 50 bucks. /= My DS on the otherhand.. used EVERY day. If not for GBA games for Kirby, Warioware, Nanostray.. hmm.. and with lunar, mario cart, castlevania, world of mana, new mario, and animal crossing.. I think I'm going to be a very very busy guy.

Kamalot

08-26-2005, 06:17 PM

Darkholmme

08-26-2005, 06:21 PM

I was really gung-ho about the PSP for about 2 or 3 months... then I realized how little was really coming out for the system. I also do not see anything all that promising on the horizon. I therefore have not bought any PSP games since launch and do not plan to buy any more in the near or even distant future.

On the other hand, my DS is getting many hours of daily play now. I have bought 6 games over the past 3 months for it, and I plan to buy at least another 3-5 within the next 5 months. I am very tempted to sell off my PSP right now, simply because it is not getting any play at all.

KDups

08-26-2005, 06:25 PM

Yes yes, but what does Jesus think?

Sorry, this thread is just too funny to pass up.

Valchael

08-26-2005, 06:31 PM

2. If the DS is in fact outselling the PSP, (which is questionable, considering people only post links to support their point of view) it is by a very small margain.

That's all I'm saying.

There is no "irrefutable proof." Your links gave no proof for anything much really. 2 of the links were quite old one, and the other two were from last month. And those two aren't even original. Their source appears to be a 1up article here. (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3141818) The only real data for sales is 5 million for DS and 2.5 million for PSP, which I assume is from launch. Also, in May, 250,000 psp's shipped to 57,000 units sold for the ds, and the GBA sold 237,000 units. Does shipped mean sold or in stores? I don't know.

The only other number was sony's goal to ship 12 million psp's by march next year.

And following the sources takes you to Mercury News (http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/) which doesn't have the article anymore it seems.

So from your links even if the psp outsold the ds in may it still had 2.5 million units to go at that point to out sell the ds. A pretty big difference. And if you don't think of handhelds as a "serious platform" why the fuss?

From your comments it seems your handle would be apt to describe your feelings towards Sony.

Fungii

08-26-2005, 06:39 PM

2. If the DS is in fact outselling the PSP, (which is questionable, considering people only post links to support their point of view) it is by a very small margain. People must consider the price comparison of the units when taking this into consideration.

The DS sold 5 million units to the PSP's 2.5 million, I'd call that more than a "small margain". When you factor in GBA sales, which I am sure is also quite significant, Sony is having it's ass handed to them. Also take a look at the software sales, the GBA/DS is doing much better than the PSP. This is taken, funnily enough, from the links you provided, Zeal. Give it up man, the PSP is sucking right now. Although Sony could turn it around with a price drop and some killer games.

CapnBob

08-26-2005, 06:41 PM

:eek: DAMN!!!
THAT IS ONE HUGE FUCKING POST!
Do you really expect someone to read all that?
Not offending anything you said, but please...if you want to make a point...do so in a convenient way

Quite the contrary. I am attempting to discourage people who lack patience and decent conversational skills from reading it.

RMan

08-26-2005, 06:44 PM

I think Sony expected the PSP to just steamroll the handheld market, and are a bit peeved that it didn't set the world on fire. The idea that the DS is irrelevant is absolute garbage, though. This to me makes as much sense as the MS saying the same thing about the Xbox vs the PS2 while being whomped by it. It’s true that it caters to a slightly different market, but that’s likely more a product of the games they ended up with rather than the games they wanted, anybody that doesn’t want to see a family game like Pokemon on their system is a fool, and the idea that GBA and DS has only childish games like this to offer is equally foolish or just has their head stuck in the sand.

Fungii

08-26-2005, 06:54 PM

Valcheal can read my mind, apparently. :o

And I read CapnBob's post, it wasn't that long. He even used mostly nice, short words and shit. ;)

Valchael

08-26-2005, 06:59 PM

The PSP's UMD medium is not very good for movies, but I do respect Sony for creating a handheld with multimedia capabilities in mind, not just games. I own a PSP and DS, and don't really play either. I don't consider the handheld market a serious platform for games, but rather something to play on the fly or as you wait.

And yes, most DS games are in fact marketed to a young audience.

In response to that, I'd just like to state that it was an extremely unbiased response, and I appreciate that. I will never under any circumstances post misleading or inaccurate information. I do not have a brand loyalty to any developer.

With that said, I would like to post two factual statements that provide irrefutable proof supporting my overall argument:

1. Nintendo themselves admit they primarily market to children, always have and always will.

2. If the DS is in fact outselling the PSP, (which is questionable, considering people only post links to support their point of view) it is by a very small margain. People must consider the price comparison of the units when taking this into consideration.

That's all I'm saying.
You would be a lot better off if you didn't change your post after someone has replyed to it. Zeal. And taking into account the price of the system is not relevant. It certainly would limit whos gonna buy the PSP vs the DS due to cost concerns, but if people didn't like the ds they wouldn't buy it. They'd just save for the PSP. So it really has no relevance to a discussion about units sold. Why they sold is an entirely different discussion.

Darkholmme

08-26-2005, 07:10 PM

The DS sold 5 million units to the PSP's 2.5 million, I'd call that more than a "small margain". When you factor in GBA sales, which I am sure is also quite significant, Sony is having it's ass handed to them. Also take a look at the software sales, the GBA/DS is doing much better than the PSP. This is taken, funnily enough, from the links you provided, Zeal. Give it up man, the PSP is sucking right now. Although Sony could turn it around with a price drop and some killer games.

The problem with a price drop is that Sony's already losing a ton of cash on the PSP, especially since software isn't moving anywhere near as fast as they need it to move.

Funny how the selling point of the PSP, that it can do many other things besides play software, cripples Sony's traditional strategy of selling systems at a loss and letting software sales make up the slack.

Who would have thought?

Valchael

08-26-2005, 07:10 PM

Here's Japanese sales of hardware august 15 - 21
http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=5470

Software same week
http://www.m-create.com/eng/e_ranking.html

50% of all games sold were ds. while the hardware was over double the next highest. Don't know abot the us but still good data. (gotta feel sorry for the xbox. 263 sold)

PS. ~I'm psychic~ :eek:

Zeal

08-26-2005, 07:11 PM

You would be a lot better off if you didn't change your post after someone has replyed to it. Zeal. And taking into account the price of the system is not relevant. It certainly would limit whos gonna buy the PSP vs the DS due to cost concerns, but if people didn't like the ds they wouldn't buy it. They'd just save for the PSP. So it really has no relevance to a discussion about units sold. Why they sold is an entirely different discussion.

Wrong.

The price of a product is the prime factor in respect to its sales ratio. Marketing 101 and also common sense. Then again, we could just erase the entire history of the consumer market and assume you're right, but that'd be stupid. Better yet, why price things at all? Everything should be free.

Don't post stupid shit.

thecrazyd

08-26-2005, 07:19 PM

Don't post stupid shit.
Finally, we agree. So shut up.

Valchael

08-26-2005, 07:25 PM

Wrong.

The price of a product is the prime factor in respect to its sales ratio. Marketing 101 and also common sense. Then again, we could just erase the entire history of the consumer market and assume you're right, but that'd be stupid. Better yet, why price things at all? Everything should be free.

Don't post stupid shit.
We weren't talking about price/sales ratio, we were talking total numbers sold. And even if we did talk about the ratio, it doesn't take into account expences associated with the product and debt in the company. Simply looking at either of those doesn't really show the success of eithier company, and it's long term outlook.

Also stop trying to insult. It adds nothing to the discussion. Nor do phrases that are potentially emotionally charged.

Darkholmme

08-26-2005, 07:27 PM

Wrong.

The price of a product is the prime factor in respect to its sales ratio. Marketing 101 and also common sense. Then again, we could just erase the entire history of the consumer market and assume you're right, but that'd be stupid. Better yet, why price things at all? Everything should be free.

Don't post stupid shit.

You're acting as if Sony shouldn't be blamed for their higher price point, that it is some sort of justifiable excuse to say, "Well, Sony's system costs more, that explains a gap of 2.5 million units." It's not as if God came down and told Sony that they must make a system that cost that much. Nintendo should be praised and not derided for making a fun system at a low price point while adding in new technology to the mainstream handheld market like dual screens and a touch screen (note that I said mainstream market, I know all about the Zodiac and other touch screen-based systems).

Zeal

08-26-2005, 07:36 PM

We weren't talking about price/sales ratio, we were talking total numbers sold. And even if we did talk about the ratio, it doesn't take into account expences associated with the product and debt in the company. Simply looking at either of those doesn't really show the success of eithier company, and it's long term outlook.

Also stop trying to insult. It adds nothing to the discussion. Nor do phrases that are potentially emotionally charged.

I have no idea what all of that was about, but I was simply responding to your statement of:

taking into account the price of the system is not relevant. It certainly would limit whos gonna buy the PSP vs the DS due to cost concerns, but if people didn't like the ds they wouldn't buy it.

You're acting like price has absolutely nothing to do with someone choosing one unit over the other, when I'm simply saying price is always one of the main things people make their decisions based on. This is proven fact.

Also, all I stated was that if the DS is outselling the PSP (which I don't even know if it is), price would play a major factor in that. The DS is a much cheaper system and people consider such when deciding which one to buy. This is also just common sense.

And lastly, I claimed that sales between the two would be much different once the PSP's price is cut, which is also true.

I don't even see an argument here.

The entire argument of this thread was based on "Sony is full of shit" in their statement and that the DS is raping the PSP in sales. Neither of which are true.

bryan

08-26-2005, 07:38 PM

Zeal, who priced the PSP? i.e Who fucked up. Price point and other variables aside, if a product doesn't sell well then it's the failing of it's producer. THAT'S as simple and clearcut as it gets. Sony's dropped the ball, end of story, thank you please don't come again.

And now they're unprovokedly dissing Nintendo. Nice show of 'maturity' there.

edit: added 'unprovokedly'

TrackZero

08-26-2005, 07:56 PM

Also, all I stated was that if the DS is outselling the PSP (which I don't even know if it is), price would play a major factor in that. The DS is a much cheaper system and people consider such when deciding which one to buy. This is also just common sense.

Zeal, stop. Seriously. It's a known fact that the DS has twice the userbase than the PSP worldwide at this point.

JUST STOP POSTING, put the keyboard down and walk away. This is my final post in this thread, as it's obvious that no reasonable conversation can be had with someone who isn't listening. (And don't even try to claim that I'm not listening to your points, I responded to them with valid counterpoints, which you then proceed to ignore and play "let's change the topic".) If you want to be a troll, head on over to gamespot's forums, I'm sure they'll love you there.

Valchael

08-26-2005, 08:04 PM

zeal...
You're acting like price has absolutely nothing to do with someone choosing one unit over the other, when I'm simply saying price is always one of the main things people make their decisions based on. This is proven fact.
Also, all I stated was that if the DS is outselling the PSP (which I don't even know if it is), price would play a major factor in that. The DS is a much cheaper system and people consider such when deciding which one to buy. This is also just common sense.
I did say price had something to do with people choosing which one to buy. And you quoted me on it.taking into account the price of the system is not relevant. It certainly would limit whos gonna buy the PSP vs the DS due to cost concerns, but if people didn't like the ds they wouldn't buy it. The phrase is bolded and it refers to price. so... price limits psp vs the ds due to cost. Simplified.

The price will not be cut all that soon. Considering they're probably not making too much money as it is limiting any profit they might make through hardware sales would be stupid.
And lastly, I claimed that sales between the two would be much different once the PSP's price is cut, which is also true. I do not believe that I remember that.
The entire argument of this thread was based on "Sony is full of shit" in their statement and that the DS is raping the PSP in sales. Neither of which are true.This thread's argument went a little further than that. Into sales and price points. And what not. The PSP is losing in sales now in the handheld market.

Try to make a better response than simply skewing and rehashing what you've already said. Also, logic would help. There's a list of logical fallacies that would probably help. http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/

Ja!

Zeal

08-26-2005, 08:05 PM

Zeal, stop. Seriously. It's a known fact that the DS has twice the userbase than the PSP worldwide at this point.

JUST STOP POSTING, put the keyboard down and walk away. This is my final post in this thread, as it's obvious that no reasonable conversation can be had with someone who isn't listening. (And don't even try to claim that I'm not listening to your points, I responded to them with valid counterpoints, which you then proceed to ignore and play "let's change the topic".) If you want to be a troll, head on over to gamespot's forums, I'm sure they'll love you there.

That's actually a pretty good tactic, I hadn't thought of it. Just call someone a troll when you can't refute a thing they've said. I backed up what I claimed with links that were later acknowledged to be accurate, but I haven't seen anything from you.

I'm no longer posting in this thread, either. It isn't valid.

It's just a bash fest of Nintendo fanboys, triggered by a factual statement Sony made regarding their target audience, children.

Zanzibar

08-26-2005, 08:12 PM

The DS sold 5 million units to the PSP's 2.5 million, I'd call that more than a "small margain". When you factor in GBA sales, which I am sure is also quite significant, Sony is having it's ass handed to them. Also take a look at the software sales, the GBA/DS is doing much better than the PSP. This is taken, funnily enough, from the links you provided, Zeal. Give it up man, the PSP is sucking right now. Although Sony could turn it around with a price drop and some killer games.

Remember also that the PSP missed the 2004 holiday season in the US. The DS did not. Right now, the titles are selling the systems, not the other way around. This Christmas season is gonna make or break the PSP; I'd check sales then rather than right now.

Yes, the PSP games aren't that great as of yet. Launch title problems. PS2 had the same problem, but look at the PS2 library now, eh? Now that developers understand that the freakin' thing is just about as powerful as a PS2, they'll be able to develop better games, faster.

Darkholmme

08-26-2005, 08:21 PM

Remember also that the PSP missed the 2004 holiday season in the US. The DS did not. Right now, the titles are selling the systems, not the other way around. This Christmas season is gonna make or break the PSP; I'd check sales then rather than right now.

Yes, the PSP games aren't that great as of yet. Launch title problems. PS2 had the same problem, but look at the PS2 library now, eh? Now that developers understand that the freakin' thing is just about as powerful as a PS2, they'll be able to develop better games, faster.

Don't forget that the DS also had launch title problems. But most people bought the DS knowing that games in the near future would make the purchase more than worth it. Truth be told, I don't see anything on the PSP horizon that makes me feel good about my PSP purchase: quite the opposite, really. I honestly feel like I have nothing to look forward to on my PSP outside of what we, the consumers, can cook up for it. This is bad for Sony, because again, the company depends on selling their systems at a lower-than-production cost while making up the deficit on software sales. Considering Sony's current financial situation outside of its gaming division, one wonders how much longer they can keep it up.

Kamalot

08-26-2005, 08:43 PM

Funny how the selling point of the PSP, that it can do many other things besides play software
And yet Sony has the nerve to call the Nintendo DS a 'Gimmick'.

Ha!

The gimmick must be that it plays games that are fun.

Kamalot

08-26-2005, 08:48 PM

You're acting like price has absolutely nothing to do with someone choosing one unit over the other, when I'm simply saying price is always one of the main things people make their decisions based on. This is proven fact.
Zeal:
I think that if price was such a big factor, the GameCube would have mopped up the PS2; it has always been lower priced than the PS2.

Lon Lon Rabbit

08-26-2005, 09:06 PM

Zeal, noooo!
Come back!
I miss you!
8(
I miss the way you grease your body up real good and slip and slide through all the holes in your argument, the way you slip through the clutches of the people in this thread who actually make sense just by changing your argument, leaving the others with hands that feel sticky and dirty and like they will never feel happiness again.
Please don't leave us!
*cries*

Nessus

08-26-2005, 09:31 PM

"1. Nintendo themselves admit they primarily market to children, always have and always will."

I concur, show us a quote where they say that.

Actually, I remember Nintendo stating on numerous occassions that they were marketing the DS towards teenagers/young adults, and that that was one of the justifications for making the DS a line seperate from the Game Boy.

And in general I only remember Nintendo saying they wish to make games for "everyone". Never "we want to make games for children".

Whether Nintendo has been successful in shifting their demographic is debatable (though the DS *does* have a significantly older demographic than the Game Boy Advance, not as old as the PSP, but they're getting better).

DS had a bad launch. There are more games now, but it's still not doing horribly well in the US. The PSP is doing much better in the US currently. I don't know if that is going to change any time soon.

However the DS is trouncing the PSP in Japan by a huge margin (in fact it's been consistantly outselling all other systems *combined*) and I think that will continue, as Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, and New Super Mario Bros. haven't even been released yet.

The PSP had a decent launch, and for casual gamers they had an alright lineup. Much better than the DS' launch lineup. But the PSP didn't sell anywhere near as many units as they had expected, and they are still falling short of their projection.

I think in general the PSP will do better in America and the DS will do better in Japan.

I know I currently have no interst in any of the games for PSP, or any of the upcoming games save Devil May Cry. I'll likely pick up a DS next month along with with Kirby and Meteos. I'll get a PSP when they have games and when the system doesn't cost nearly $400 Canadian.

Rakael

08-26-2005, 09:52 PM

Im still laughing at Zeal. Dear christ man, you pull this shit and yet have the nerve to call US children? Thanks for the chuckle man, I've needed it.

Now, Zanzibar makes some very good points without comming off as a complete, brainwashed fucktard. The PSP could very well turn out like the PS2, although with the price of the system and the way the GBA/DS already hold the market, I doubt it. Remember, the PS2 was also following the massive (for its time) install base of the PS. This time they don't have that luxury.

Rakael

08-26-2005, 09:54 PM

IndependentGMR

08-26-2005, 10:08 PM

I own both.

Meshyf

08-26-2005, 11:22 PM

You are retarded. They are both fucking toys. The DS is just a toy that is actually fun to play.
HAHAHAH omg hero<3

I take my Psp everywhere! I love homebrew but without that its dead. My brother has nintendogs and AW:DS and I'm jealous as all hell. I love playing Super Mario All Stars anytime I want but its nothing new sadly and even most of the homebrew are home versions of even older games.
Sony should step up and make something fun.
Shit I love Grand Tourismo as much as the next person but the only game I'm even remotely interested in is Infected and even that looks like it could get old.

Kelegacy

08-26-2005, 11:35 PM

You are retarded. They are both fucking toys. The DS is just a toy that is actually fun to play.

Fun to play because it has more games right now, maybe. But the PSP has it's multimedia handheld shit going for it that the DS doesnt. I still call stalemate. Both suck until I see further proof.

Vandenh

08-27-2005, 01:18 AM

>I'd love to hear Reggie Fils-Aime's response to these comments by Sony...

I don't think Nintendo needs any comment... the sales charts say it all.

I have been waiting to buy a new handheld and was initially excited by the PSP (technology wise), but now you would have to be crazy to buy a PSP, the DS has the games and will be mine at XMas! The PSP will die a slow painful death.

Achilles

08-27-2005, 02:30 AM

Nintendo isn't the #1 player in the console market anymore, no doubt, but they're still a force to be reckoned with in the portable market.I wouldn’t call them a force to be reckoned with so much as a near monopoly that created the industry. At first I thought Sony could really make some headway with the PSP. I was certainly interested in one. However they managed to follow up a large price tag with the longest drought of games I’ve ever seen for a serious system. At first publishers were really interested in it (more powerful, versatile, better screen, more hip) but their interest has been declining because it doesn’t even seem like Sony’s interested in making games for it.

This can turn around for them, hardware wise Nintendo won’t have anything to compete for a while because they aren’t really interested in making such a high-end system, but god Sony, release a game already. There are a lot of PSP games in production, but this is why these console companies should release their dev kits early.

Nimos

08-27-2005, 02:34 AM

DS = chick magnet.
End of discussion.

bKangy

08-27-2005, 04:08 AM

The PSP hasn't even been released here in Europe yet. Sony have done a fantastic job on failing, really. Nobody even cares about it where I'm living. I have 2 Sony fanboy friends, and even they're completely apathetic to this. Sony has done a fantastic job to reassure me that Europe is still the market they abuse.

Kamalot

08-27-2005, 05:39 AM

Do you think that Sony has divided its own pool of developers? The effort involved in making a 'PS2-like' game must be fairly high. Why on earth would a developer want to learn the ins and outs of a new system, manage the disc spinning/battery life/wireless usage to a completely untested market? Why not spend that effort creating a kick-ass game for the PS2 or spend your R&D for a new system learning the tools to make next-gen games?

Say what you want about the DS being 'underpowered' but that means that it is easier to make games for, which means we get more games. Easier also means smaller development budgets which means developers and publishers can take more of a risk developing new ideas. All of this is good for the consumer and gamer, US!

see colon

08-27-2005, 08:47 AM

i love the whole "sony isn't competing with nintendo" argument. who are they competing against? the pda market? the high end cell phone market? both of those platforms beat the PSP in features and installed base. sony (or it's fans) might be quick to counter that by stating that sony is creating a whole new market. how? what exactly does the psp do that other devices haven't already done? there have been PDA's on the market for years that could do everything the PSP does (play games, music, video, have a large screen). the PSP might be the next generation of those devices, but it's nothing new. just something that's got a bit more power.

regardless, nintendo owns the handheld space like sony owns the home console space. in fact, there are some pretty reasonable comparisons to be drawn between the two markets. nintendo had a basicly undisputed lead in the handheld sector like sony did with the playstaion in the home sector. the next generation was vangarded by another company (sega with the dreamcast in the home consoles, and nokia with the ngage in the mobile gaming device) that was quickly brushed asside when the bigger players launched their parts (ps2/xbox/gc and psp/ds), and the company that did it right last generation is doing it right again.

to me, the PSP is like the xbox. more powerfull, bigger, and definatly a step in the right direction, but not the device that's going to lead the market.

i also get a kick out of the "the PSP costs more" defense. of course more expensive items are harder to sell, but it doesn't mean that people wouldn't have them if they really want them. look at the success apple has with the ipod (they cost more than competing products). and if you actualy look at the sales charts for handhelds (not the number of units sony has shipped, ones that have actualy been sold), you'll see something along the lines of 5 million DS sold vs 2.5 million PSPs sold. since the DS costs (or did cost, since the price just dropped) about 60% of what the PSP costs, people are still spending more money (total) on nintendo.

Nintendo Revolution

08-27-2005, 10:11 PM

This is exactly the kind of person the DS and Revolution were made for. I rest my case.

Hmm. Nice generalization.

kwillhan

08-28-2005, 12:33 AM

The kids thing is funny. I like how marketing wizards try to define gaming by age groups now, like older people are the ones that 'really matter' and kiddie systems and games are on the way out. or something? What the hell are they trying to say?

Who gives a shit how old the customer is? Did they pay for it? Did they buy the purple grey version? Good. make another one. make ten more.

Nintendo problably banks on Sony's ignorance of the child market. Aren't they the consumers with the most potential to buy in the future?

kel