360 Core System Partially Backwards Compatible

[bapenguin]

1UP (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3143142) got word from one of their insiders that the hard drive may not be required for backwards compatiblity. It's not a guarantee for every game, but there are some triple A titles that are getting "special" treatment.

What's especially interesting, though, is that select premium Xbox titles in the present and future are getting special treatment. We've learned that Microsoft is inviting some developers to make their current Xbox titles backwards compatible for both 360 SKUs -- that the games themselves will contain the Xbox 360 emulation code on them. In fact, certain Xbox titles already contain the code to boot up under emulation on the Xbox 360. Teams from Microsoft are helping developers with the project.
Well...that's some good news. Not sure if it's a selling point for the core system, but some is better than none.

[makkura]

That ought to hold the SOB's

[score]

I find the whole concept of backward compatibility with the 360 so confusing. I sat out getting an Xbox this round. I'm tempted to get a 360 but would like the ability to go back and play some of the gems from this generation.

So with a hard drive I can go back and play some xbox games? and now without a hard drive I'll be able to go back and play some games?

[Hewie]

How the hell can you tell which games you can play? Is it going to say on the box, "Halo and Halo 2 will work on me, but your Silent Hill 4 won't"? Microsoft, just fucking explain yourselves already.

I'll buy the Xbox 400 when it's at least $100 cheaper and has proved itself.

[Atorak]

How the hell can you tell which games you can play? Is it going to say on the box, "Halo and Halo 2 will work on me, but your Silent Hill 4 won't"?

I'm preeeeeety sure they'll let you know when the time comes. There's not much to bitch about in this headline, we all figured there wouldn't be ANY backward compatibility, and now there will be (limited). Cool.

[Reanimated]

I really don't give a shit what happens to people who buy the core system... because they are MORONS that need to be removed from the gene pool anyway.

[Xerxes]

BC should be ignored until MS finally puts up a neat little website that has a chart tells what games can and can't be played and what games they were to lazy to even check.

[Puresock]

I still don't get it. Why are they releasing the core system again? Will someone explain this to me? :D

It seems like an excellent money-saving idea to buy it, as long as you don't want to save your games. So, what imaginary market is that?

[Reanimated]

I still don't get it. Why are they releasing the core system again? Will someone explain this to me? :D

It seems like an excellent money-saving idea to buy it, as long as you don't want to save your games. So, what imaginary market is that?




The Special Olympics market.

[LilEvilFish]

The core system would be very well suited to the set up with have at work in our cafe for customers.

Currently we have 2 wide screen TV's connected to a slimline PS2 each. They're usually running Gran Turismo 4 and Tiger Woods. We could get these core systems and run summit like PGR or whatever on them (non-violent games) without the users filling the hard drives or saving any details and whatnot.

So they do have a reason.

[Xerxes]

The core machines are only for homemade kiosks.. Ah ha...

[Venkman]

I don't play my old games anyway. I certainly won't buy a NEW system to play games I have already beaten on the old system.

BC is solely for parents who wish to feel better about the purchase, although the kids they are buying it for want to play the new games.

[Atorak]

A Core System would make a great addition as a secondary system. Just keep the one hard drive, and move it back and forth. We planned on doing that for our new place.

[PantherModern]

Well this is certainly a good thing in the long haul, but what bothers me about the situation is that MS is forcing the game developers to create this emulation mode so the XB 360 can run the games. To me, that says that many, many publishers of older Xbox games are simply going to refuse to participate in the program. I would say that games made in the last year or so (when MS started hyping the new XNA development platform) probably took this into account, so we could be safe with some of the more recent 3rd party titles. Microsoft will certainly make their game studios comply, but older stuff...I just don't see a developer plunking down more time (and money) to fix a problem MS created by choosing a totally different graphics architechture. But, were there any decent 3rd party games out the first few years of the Xbox that people still play? I can't think of that many. Ghost Recon maybe? I dunno. It's certainly a positive step, but I think most 360 buyers are just gonna have to stick with the idea of keeping an older Xbox around just in case.

[EvilBob46]

I still don't get it. Why are they releasing the core system again? Will someone explain this to me? :D


So the XBOX 360 LAUNCHES AT ONLY $299!!! (except not really)

There's not much to bitch about in this headline, we all figured there wouldn't be ANY backward compatibility, and now there will be (limited). Cool.

This is really nothing to rave about, not in the slightest. 10 bucks says it this kind of backward compatibility will only work with new Xbox titles that have had the opportunity to include emulation code, or by purchasing updated versions of old games. O joy.

This is just another MS marketing ploy (just like teh 299 price point). It makes it appear as if the core system is backwards compatible...except...it's not really, but who cares right? It's the idea that counts, and MS is, liek, trying hard.

[SaintArnold]

"Do or do not, there is no partial backwards compatibility."

-- Yoda (paraphrased)

[netcraazzy]

So let me get this straight, in order to get an xbox game to play on the 360 you need the harddrive, but then the emulation software still needs to support the game. But some games might have the emulation code on the discs and not need the harddrive at all.

I remember Rein going on and on yesterday about how he feels that 2 different SKUs will cause consumer confusion...hell if that's the case then I'd hate to explain this crap to them.

[rein]

What is this? More Xbox 360 confusion. :rolleyes:

[bapenguin]

So let me get this straight, in order to get an xbox game to play on the 360 you need the harddrive, but then the emulation software still needs to support the game. But some games might have the emulation code on the discs and not need the harddrive at all.

I remember Rein going on and on yesterday about how he feels that 2 different SKUs will cause consumer confusion...hell if that's the case then I'd hate to explain this crap to them.

No no no....I think the point is the Emulation file can be on a memory card or something. That trick is...if the game utilized the hard drive in XBox 1, then they need to somehow "unutilize" it for the 360 if you don't have a hard drive. If you do have the hard drive on the 360, it's no problem though.

[Murmillo]

What he is saying there, the newest Xbox games will already have the 360 emulation file on the disk. But it still won't do any good for the games that have been already out for years now (like Halo & Halo 2). Unless they repackage it when they make it a Platinum Hit or something. A good majority of the games will still need the harddrive (or memory unit if it was one of those games that didn't really use a HD).

[Wonka]

The point of this was not to please consumers. I understand that everyone wants to believe that the world revolves around them and their personal gaming habits, but I am afraid that I have bad news for you guys... :p

Anyhow, the reason that MS is doing this is NOT to make the core system more capable, it is ACTUALLY to please publishers who still have Xbox games coming out in the fall. So if you are EA, and you have an Xbox (but no X360 version planned) title releasing in the fall, now thanks to this trick you can make sure that it will run on ALL of the MS consoles whether they have a HDD or not. This will make Valve very happy for example since they just spent a couple years porting Half life 2 to the Xbox (and there is no X360 version in sight)...

[Twigz'N'Berries]

That makes sense Wonka.

As for backwards capability, it has helped some systems retain their original market. The Genesis was backwards compatible with the Sega Master System (with a $30 adapter) and that helped in my decision to buy one. You could get an add on that ran 2600 games for my Coleco way back in the day...and that helped my decision as well. The PS3 will be backwards compatible w/PS1 and PS2. The idea that nobody wants to play their old games is definitely an overstatement. Old school game collections like Atari Collections, Midway Treasures 1 & 2, Tecmo's Compilations, Sega Classics 1 & 2 and the upcoming Capcom Classics all are proof that there are people who want to fire up their old games without having to keep their old system around. Hell, that is why emulators and roms are so popular on the pc and that the Nintendo Revolution hasn't announced anything except it will have a new controller and you can download old Nintendo games to play on it.

So I'm glad MS is learning the importance of BC and I suspect that the problem with the Xbox 1 will not be repeated with Xbox 360. But in the meantime, those of us that want the Xbox360, you have to go into it with the realization that this consoles version of BC will be a little convoluted. I'd bet that all games released after a certain date in the past will contain this emulation code to make them work. But my only question is when was that date and how soon (or if) will the rest of my library be updated?

[Murmillo]

as long as Sudeki gets BC, I'll be happy. :p



:eek: Thats it.. I'm going to bed..

[if76]

Both Halos use the harddrive extensively. So if you spend $300 on the 360core you get to play an inferior version of a last-generation game. Awesome!

[if76]

I'd like to state for the record that if MS just sold their 20gb harddrive for $50 rather than $100, there'd be a lot less bitching.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

I'd like to state for the record that if MS just sold their 20gb harddrive for $50 rather than $100, there'd be a lot less bitching.

I'd like to state that I think he is right....oh yeah, and then they could just do away with the stupid memory card.

All ms has to do is eat the cost of the HD on every 360. They have the money and then there would be no more controversy. The dual Skus could remain...just throw in a game/or lower the price to $349...or even $360!

....just in my opinion, MS should have included an HVD rewritable drive if they were going to go without a HD. That would have eliminated the performance hit for games that would have utilized the HD. An HVD can transfer up info up tp 128 MB per second and hold up to 3.9 Terabytes of data. The games would have practically been limitless. Of course that may have had a tiny impact on the price. :D

[Zanzibar]

Agreed. Single SKU, $349, HDD, wireless controller, done. Dumbasses. SOOOO CLOSE to really dominating Sony for a full year or MORE and they pull this crap.

'Full year or more? Hogwash,' you PS3 fans say, 'The PS3 will be out in the Spring of '06!!'

You keep telling yourselves that. I know different.

[fitbabits]

I feel like crying now - this is so confusing. :(

[Tyrant]

Both Halos use the harddrive extensively. So if you spend $300 on the 360core you get to play an inferior version of a last-generation game. Awesome!

Considering that there is 512mb of system RAM as opposed to the original Xbox's 64mb, that effectively leaves 448mb of RAM at the most that could replace the <700mb HD cache(which would be far faster than any HD). By releasing a Platinum Hits version of Halo 2 with all the downloadable content and fixes integrated into the game, it would probably play just as well as on the original system, if not better, due to the extra RAM.

Would I buy said version of Halo 2? No, but I'm just tossing out a logical, possible solution to the issue you proposed.

[Chandler]

Gotta hand it to MS for keeping consumers educated about whats going on. Too bad the casual gamers are going to be like "wtf....wtf....huh" when the salesperson explains the backwards compatibility.

[TrackZero]

I've just decided I'm giving in to the hype, since their starting lineup of games looks damn good for a launch (gears of war having co-op just put it over the top for me). Guess I'll be going over to preorder on payday.

[Zanzibar]

I've just decided I'm giving in to the hype, since their starting lineup of games looks damn good for a launch (gears of war having co-op just put it over the top for me). Guess I'll be going over to preorder on payday.

Not sure if I'm misinterpreting you, but GoW isn't a launch title. Probably spring 2006.

I know. I'm disappointed too.

[kokyunage]

gears of war is a launch title?

[fitbabits]

gears of war is a launch title?

Nope, 'fraid not. Scheduled to ship in February 2006 according to EB Games, etc.

[fitbabits]

I've just decided I'm giving in to the hype, since their starting lineup of games looks damn good for a launch (gears of war having co-op just put it over the top for me). Guess I'll be going over to preorder on payday.

Ah-ha! Welcome to the club. The launch lineup does look pretty strong and a little more diverse than previous console launch lineups. Still too many driving games, though, and not enough soccer (it's FOOTBALL fer Christ's sake) titles.

[Xerxes]

I would want BC on occasion... Sometimes I still pop in old games... I mean I have Ghost Recon 2, shoot me cause I pop in the Island Thunder sometimes... Shoot me and all the folks who still be on live with it as well... Despite all of the Halo 2 haters, i still find it fun...

My first xbox broke down, hard drive died... Hard drives die all the time, and I'm thinking this might be better... I mean I'd rather buy another $99 hard drive over another $400 system.

[Sloth]

I plan on stacking my xbox next to my 360 anyway. And just switching between them when I need to. I like the look of a shelf full of game consoles. It makes my apartment feel geeked out. which i like.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

I would want BC on occasion... Sometimes I still pop in old games... I mean I have Ghost Recon 2, shoot me cause I pop in the Island Thunder sometimes... Shoot me and all the folks who still be on live with it as well... Despite all of the Halo 2 haters, i still find it fun...

My first xbox broke down, hard drive died... Hard drives die all the time, and I'm thinking this might be better... I mean I'd rather buy another $99 hard drive over another $400 system.

HDs do die. But since its detachable and upgradeable, there is no reason MS couldn't give away one for free for every system. Hell, give us an 8GB HD like you did in the original for the $299. I guess that just isn't going to happen.

[mister_slim]

I'm going to laugh in DOA:3 or DOA:U is incompatible with the 360.
Nope, 'fraid not. Scheduled to ship in February 2006 according to EB Games, etc.
Epic is aiming for March, I believe.

[*Legion*]

ell, give us an 8GB HD like you did in the original for the $299.

You say that as if it would be cheaper for MS to provide an 8GB HD instead of a 20GB one.

It would not.

Once you get to a certain point, you no longer save money by reducing capacity.

[Xerxes]

Also these are laptop HDDs and not the full sized pc HDDs...
But I mean come on, isn't a HDD of any sort better than the flash drives we thought would be in there?

[Zeal]

I have a feeling this software-only based emulation is going to experience a lot of problems. Microsoft should have just let it go, but they're too desperate to play keep up with Sony.

I just don't think it's really necessary.

[StGeorge]

Emulation file? What the hell is Microsoft talking about... plain and simple... THERE IS NO XBOX EMULATION IN XBOX 360. There is only recompilation. And if Microsoft doesn't recompile for you, then now you have the option to recompile yourself for newer games... For any older games that Microsoft doesn't care about (IE. all non-MS produced games) YOU ARE SHIT OUT OF LUCK. Emulation, my foot.

[Zeal]

Uh...that is emulation.

It's emulation using software only.

[Murmillo]

^ZING^

haa haa. your not telling us anything we don't know StGerorge.

[TrackZero]

Not sure if I'm misinterpreting you, but GoW isn't a launch title. Probably spring 2006.

I know. I'm disappointed too.

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[StGeorge]

Zeal: Emulation is software that ON-THE-FLY converts from one platform to another. This means you can use it for any game (or least attempt to if MS doesn't want to test every game). Just like you can play old Genesis games on your PC. Recompilation is when you take the original source code and compile it under a new platform (also called PORTING), and you can't do this for just any game. Microsoft is PORTING their top games, and now telling devs to PORT their upcoming XBox games to 360. As for older games? You're screwed!

[Zeal]

Zeal: Emulation is software that ON-THE-FLY converts from one platform to another. This means you can use it for any game (or least attempt to if MS doesn't want to test every game). Just like you can play old Genesis games on your PC. Recompilation is when you take the original source code and compile it under a new platform (also called PORTING), and you can't do this for just any game. Microsoft is PORTING their top games, and now telling devs to PORT their upcoming XBox games to 360. As for older games? You're screwed!

What is all of this mumbo-jumbo? Microsoft is emulating its Xbox games on 360 using software, whereas PS3 is using a combination of both hardware and software. That's why the emulation software is being loaded on to the discs of new games.

They said it right up there.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Duh!!!

Every casual gamer knows this info...man you guys are retarded. Doesn't everybody know the code to the games they purchase???

Sorry, I'm being totally sarcastic (obviously) but it boils down to the fact that most games will not run without the hd. But some of the more recent ones will. In any case, some is better than none.

I just feel sorry for the store employee who has to answer this question.
Good topic and good find bapenguin.

[Mystery Writer X]

When it comes down to it this is not a very "customer friendly" move. As a retailer this makes my job a whole lot more difficult. Trying to explain to a grandmother the importance of a hard drive and emulators is enough to make me want to shoot myself. I don't think MS has handled this 360 thing well at all. From that silly MTV outing to this $300/$400 bit of business. MS feels like they can do whatever they want and people will just fall in line like mindless zombies. Well, they're wrong. Now...if only we could get people to stop falling in line like mindless zombies...that would be great.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

When it comes down to it this is not a very "customer friendly" move. As a retailer this makes my job a whole lot more difficult. Trying to explain to a grandmother the importance of a hard drive and emulators is enough to make me want to shoot myself. I don't think MS has handled this 360 thing well at all. From that silly MTV outing to this $300/$400 bit of business. MS feels like they can do whatever they want and people will just fall in line like mindless zombies. Well, they're wrong. Now...if only we could get people to stop falling in line like mindless zombies...that would be great.
I hear you on this one. I know my nephew will want one and I can just imagine how my sister will react when he tries to explain why she has to pony up an extra $100 bucks. When she then goes to ask the guy behind the counter why she needs to pay $100 bucks more I have a feeling my nephew will walk away with the $299 model.
Your customers will probably feel like you are just trying to rip them off.