[Wii] Mario Super Sluggers Announced

[Dr.Finger]

Nintendo held a media summit today in San Francisco, and while most of the news was fairly dry, a few notable announcements were made. Chief among them, a new Wii title - Mario Super Sluggers

This baseball title uses the Wiimote, but the controls seem a bit more complex than the WiiSports version of the sport.
During the demonstration, producer Bill Trinen showed off the various gameplay mechanics, such as pitching, which has players pulling back on the Wii Remote to perform the wind-up, waiting for a pair of on-screen rings to match up, and then launching forward to release the pitch. Twisting the remote during the release will apparently put a spin on the ball, and pressing the A and B buttons together allowed Mario to put fire on a special pitch in the demo. When fielding as an outfielder, you can snap the Wii Remote towards the direction of the intended base to throw the ball and make diving catches by pressing the A button at the correct moment.The game's tone and style will be similar to that of Mario Strikers and Mario Tennis, with the usual lineup of classic Nintendo characters taking the field.

Thanks to 1UP (http://feeds.feedburner.com/%7Er/1up/ALLVideoGame/News/%7E3/267863235/newsStory).

[phantomhitman]

and the list goes on, mario pr0n up next. :(

[Heretic Machine]

Cue the cries of rehash and the masses ignoring things like game mechanics. If it has Mario in it, it is exactly the same game as Donkey Kong!

amiright guys?

[Dr.Finger]

For all the complaining people do about how bad Electronic Arts is about milking franchises, Nintendo is as bad, if not worse. Although the quality of Nintendo's output is still higher, they're not exactly cranking out a new franchise every year.

[Baron Samedi]

Is this first or second party? Who's the dev?

Cue the cries of rehash and the masses ignoring things like game mechanics. If it has Mario in it, it is exactly the same game as Donkey Kong!

amiright guys?

Oh, oh, is that Spider-Man issue #3454332.234 you got there?

[Karmakin]

For all the complaining people do about how bad Electronic Arts is about milking franchises, Nintendo is as bad, if not worse. Although the quality of Nintendo's output is still higher, they're not exactly cranking out a new franchise every year.

It's not quite the same. This really is just the second game in this particular franchise, and the first was decent but had some flaws, plus the control system sounds like it could be a ton of flaw.

Oh..you mean the usage of the Mushroom Kingdom setting?

It comes from Miyamoto's background in industrial design. If you can use "off the shelf" parts, you do it because it gives you more time to perfect it/polish it, and as well it provides points of reference for the user/worker as well.

For example, it's pretty clear that a mushroom power up makes you bigger/faster, star makes you invincible, and so on. Mario is all-around, Peach is fast, DK is powerful and slow, and so on.

Sure, Nintendo could reinvent the wheel, but by not doing that they're actually able to focus on the quality of the game quite a bit more.

[Wraith]

http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2008/04/super_mario_sluggers_wii-thumb.jpg
Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/378348/nintendo-demos-mario-super-sluggers-for-wii)

http://www.wiiz.fr/medias/divers/2/364.jpg
Wiiz.fr (http://www.wiiz.fr/media.php?a=17273&m=67278)

[Dr.Finger]

Sure, Nintendo could reinvent the wheel, but by not doing that they're actually able to focus on the quality of the game quite a bit more.Here's my question. When Nintendo does something like this it's 'not reinventing the wheel', yet when EA does something like this it's a lack of creativity. Why? I'm not taking a shot at you, or even taking one at Nintendo. I'm more trying to figure out why so much venom is directed at EA.

[Baron Samedi]

Here's my question. When Nintendo does something like this it's 'not reinventing the wheel', yet when EA does something like this it's a lack of creativity. Why? I'm not taking a shot at you, or even taking one at Nintendo. I'm more trying to figure out why so much venom is directed at EA.

EA = yearly releases of the same game. Nintendo = yearly releases of the same taped on theme, but different game.

Quality differences.

Control differences.

[Karmakin]

Here's my question. When Nintendo does something like this it's 'not reinventing the wheel', yet when EA does something like this it's a lack of creativity. Why? I'm not taking a shot at you, or even taking one at Nintendo. I'm more trying to figure out why so much venom is directed at EA.

Actually, I don't say that about EA at all or anybody, and people get on my ass all the time :)

I want my yearly Tony Hawk, my yearly Guitar Hero, my yearly Nippon Ichi game (yes that counts IMO). I don't have a problem with Madden or NHL, or whatever. No problem with episodic content...

All that is the same thing for me.

I actually think sequels are great for the industry. It allows developers to refine gameplay over multiple version, and it creates better games over time. I think there are situations where the game design jumps the shark, but this has nothing to do with the idea of making a game sequel in and of itself.

There are actually quite a few cases where game design jumps the shark IMO, and that's what gets the complaints, however I think that the balance is firmly that sequels actually tend to usually be a good thing.

[Karmakin]

EA = yearly releases of the same game. Nintendo = yearly releases of the same taped on theme, but different game.

Quality differences.

Control differences.

I don't even think it's so much that. The games that people complain about coming from EA tend to be VERY juvenile stuff. They hide it behind sequel-itis, but I think that's the core of the problem.

[ErikErikson]

If it is fun to play, I can see getting it for some multiplayer action.

However, with some of the sports games, after I've gotten over the "this is interesting" initial interface impression, I've grown to appreciate the simple button press for most in-game actions. Swinging around a Wii controller when I want to play a quick 18 holes doesn't quite work.

(P.S. - Yes, I was able to string together 6 'i' words in a row there)

[Generation ABXY]

The Mario sports titles are usually solid fun, if not terribly innovative. So if they add online play, I may pick it up...

[Variable Gear]

I didn't hear great things about Mario Superstar Baseball for the GC, so I'm not going to get too excited about this yet.

Yes, Wii Sports Baseball is fun, but I don't really know how far above that they aim to go with Sluggers.

[Heretic Machine]

Here's my question. When Nintendo does something like this it's 'not reinventing the wheel', yet when EA does something like this it's a lack of creativity. Why? I'm not taking a shot at you, or even taking one at Nintendo. I'm more trying to figure out why so much venom is directed at EA.

It isn't the same thing at all. This is the second Mario Baseball game. Just having Mario in a game doesn't make it the same thing as a Super Mario game (which we normally only get one of per generation, with the exception of the NES and original Gameboy). It isn't as if we see a new Mario Strikers every year, or a new Mario Tennis.

The only annual rehashing that Nintendo does is in the form of the Mario Party games, which I don't buy.

If it is fun to play, I can see getting it for some multiplayer action.

However, with some of the sports games, after I've gotten over the "this is interesting" initial interface impression, I've grown to appreciate the simple button press for most in-game actions. Swinging around a Wii controller when I want to play a quick 18 holes doesn't quite work.

(P.S. - Yes, I was able to string together 6 'i' words in a row there)

Really? I actually enjoyed Wii Sports Golf quite a bit... Though, my arm did get sore from playing it too much. Same with Wii Sports Baseball, which gives me hope for this game (though it is unlikely that I will buy it; I rarely buy Mario Sports titles, despite being quite fun). I'm hoping they'll release some kind of Mario Bowling or a new Mario Golf, as those were my two favorite mini-games in Wii Sports.

[Purple Santa]

Actually, I don't say that about EA at all or anybody, and people get on my ass all the time :)

I want my yearly Tony Hawk, my yearly Guitar Hero, my yearly Nippon Ichi game (yes that counts IMO). I don't have a problem with Madden or NHL, or whatever. No problem with episodic content...

All that is the same thing for me.

I actually think sequels are great for the industry. It allows developers to refine gameplay over multiple version, and it creates better games over time. I think there are situations where the game design jumps the shark, but this has nothing to do with the idea of making a game sequel in and of itself.

There are actually quite a few cases where game design jumps the shark IMO, and that's what gets the complaints, however I think that the balance is firmly that sequels actually tend to usually be a good thing.

I agree with this. I'll be stoned with EvAv stones (or is it evil eyes) but it's a good point...

[Deadend]

It prints money!

But could Nintendo please make a new IP? Please? Mario is on too many boxes.

[Karmakin]

I agree with this. I'll be stoned with EvAv stones (or is it evil eyes) but it's a good point...

I understand WHY the stones. Because it means that people buy Need for Speed instead of Okami. (See the thread right below this).

What has to be realized, is that unfortunately, the gaming market is focused on the post-adolescent crowd, who will buy the latest licensed game or game with a whole lot of violence in it before anything else. Not saying that there's never any overlap, when a game that appeals to that crowd is a good game, but for the most part, for the 2nd tier of games, there's a big disconnect.

Nintendo's biggest sin really is not appealing to that middle-core crowd of gamers.

[Dr.Finger]

It isn't the same thing at all. This is the second Mario Baseball game. Just having Mario in a game doesn't make it the same thing as a Super Mario game (which we normally only get one of per generation, with the exception of the NES and original Gameboy). It isn't as if we see a new Mario Strikers every year, or a new Mario Tennis.Yet we now see a Mario Sports game every year. Which is the same formula - Mario characters + wacky power-ups + basic sport mechanics - thrown into, or onto, a different sport. Tennis, Golf, Soccer, Baseball, Racing. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that if any other company did it a lot of people here would be readying the torches and pitchforks.

[Variable Gear]

It prints money!

But could Nintendo please make a new IP? Please? Mario is on too many boxes.

They really aren't Mario games at all. Nintendo just puts Mario on the cover, and in the starring role, because it sells more units. Look at Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles for the GC. Was that a Final Fantasy game? Nope. However, did the appearance of Final Fantasy on the box lead to more sales? Definitely. Square-Enix was smart to do that, just as Nintendo is wise to connect this baseball game to Mario.

Troll moar.

[UnderHero5]

Yet we now see a Mario Sports game every year. Which is the same formula - Mario characters + wacky power-ups + basic sport mechanics - thrown into, or onto, a different sport. Tennis, Golf, Soccer, Baseball, Racing. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that if any other company did it a lot of people here would be readying the torches and pitchforks.

So now you're saying Mario Kart is the same as Mario Tennis?...

You're grasping at straws, here. All the different themed Mario sport games are completely different games. You can't just lump them into a single "Mario Sport" category and treat them as if they were a single game. They aren't.

Is EA's latest NBA game the same as EA's latest Madden game? No.

[RUSKULL]

Unfortunately for Nintendo, the name "Smash TV" was already taken (badoom-ching!) ;)

[Headcase]

Any word on which team is developing it? Next Level did a spendid job on Strikers.

For anyone complaining "Not another Mario game", what would you do in their shoes?

A) Take the time and effort (money) to develop a brand new cast of characters for a game that has little narrative OR

B) Use a pre-existing franchise where most gamers and many non-gamers know the characters so they can go in without choosing from a faceless cast of random characters they don't know.

I'd go with B. The faceless cast wouldn't bother me much, but why put all that effort towards making new characters in a game where chracters aren't pivotal when you could use it on making a better game elsewhere?

Yet we now see a Mario Sports game every year. Which is the same formula - Mario characters + wacky power-ups + basic sport mechanics - thrown into, or onto, a different sport. Tennis, Golf, Soccer, Baseball, Racing.
That's exactly the point. So if they announce Mario Hockey tomorrow, I'd know what to expect from it. Arcade style hockey with simple rules and lots of items.

If they announced "Nintendo Hockey" tomorrow I'd have no idea what to expect from it, and personally I'd be hoping it was arcade style hockey with simple rules and lots of items.

The mechanics are what they are, depending on who you are you either love them or hate them, but with Mario slapped on the title you know before reading the first preview what type of game they're going for.

In concept they're similar but a fan of these games will tell you that the gameplay is totally different each time (though Hockey would probably end up a lot like Strikers). They've done Golf 2, they've done Tennis 2, and they've done Soccer 2 (each one IMO quite a lot better than it's predeccesor). My biggest surprise here about Baseball 2 is that marketing decided to rebrand it from Baseball to Super Sluggers.

And of course the standard disclaimer applies: you don't need to buy every game released yada yada yada. Mario Power Tennis, for example, looked like it was more directed at those who didn't buy the N64 version; it had big improvements like the gimmick courts and mini-games, but the core gameplay was similar.

[Variable Gear]

Mario Power Tennis, for example, looked like it was more directed at those who didn't buy the N64 version; it had big improvements like the gimmick courts and mini-games, but the core gameplay was similar.

For those that are curious, the GC version sucked.

[Dr.Finger]

I looked around, and I can't find any word on who is developing it, or if it's a Japanese or NA team.

[Karmakin]

That's the other thing. What do you want? For Nintendo to bring out a plain-jane sports sim, probably would a real license that really adds nothing new to the mix? That's the alternative really.

Actually, that said, I'd REALLY like to see more Mutant League games.

[Heretic Machine]

Yet we now see a Mario Sports game every year. Which is the same formula - Mario characters + wacky power-ups + basic sport mechanics - thrown into, or onto, a different sport. Tennis, Golf, Soccer, Baseball, Racing. I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that if any other company did it a lot of people here would be readying the torches and pitchforks.

But they all play differently. Mario Kart is not significantly similar to Mario Hoops 3-on-3. As for readying the pitchforks... well, a lot of people around here seem to be really jazzed about Ninja Gaiden 2, which is really just a spin-off of Dead or Alive, which also has another spin-off in the form of DoA: XVB. I don't see a lot of pitchforks being rallied.

[Telefrog]

I'm just about Mario'd out on the Wii. I think I'll pass on this one.

[ElfShotTheFood]

It's because Nintendo's too cheap to acquire an official license for any type of sports game, so they throw in a bunch of their "stable" characters instead.

It's why they're rich. ;)

[Heretic Machine]

It's because Nintendo's too cheap to acquire an official license for any type of sports game, so they throw in a bunch of their "stable" characters instead.

It's why they're rich. ;)

Might also have a lot to do with Mario Sports fans not really caring about the real sports, or the real "athletes" (steroid junkies) who play them. Honestly, I'd rather play as Toad in Mario Hoops than play some officially licensed NBA game and play as some asshole that I don't know or care about.

[Ravenlock]

I really enjoy the Mario Strikers series, so if this has good gameplay mechanics and is playable online, I might very well pick it up. If not... well, no big loss.

[Grimmjow]

This shyt is getting old.

[AbeLincoln]

Yeah, it's an arcadey sports game. The characters are only important in as much as what attributes they have. So why not use your established characters as a shorthand for who is a big slow heavy, versus small and fast light? Makes sense to me.

Were we really expecting that a slew of "Mario" based sports games weren't going to come out?

Those who cry franchise milking what would you do in this situation?

[Opty]

EA puts out 5+ sports games per year, each built on the previous year's engine with very few additions and the biggest selling point being roster updates which could effectively be done through downloads to the previous version for much cheaper than buying a new game. Nintendo puts out 0-2 sports games a year, each with major additions to the previous version which was on the last console, the biggest selling point being it's Mario. If you can't see the difference there then there's nothing I could do or say to make you.

[Feltoar]

Anyone complaining about original IPs from Nintendo must be totally oblivious to what they are actually doing. 2008 has been a pretty slow year I must admit, but in recent years there have been plenty of original IPs from Nintendo.

Im as sick of Mario sports titles as the next person. Yes they are milking Mario, its true. Thats entirely seperate to this fantasy that Nintendo arent producing original IPs though. The Nintendo DS is full of original IPs published and/or developed by Nintendo!

Do you guys realise you are speaking about a company with such side-ways views on games they published Endless Ocean, Electroplankton, Brain Training, Nintendogs, Wario Ware, WiiFit and all these other games that made us all go WTF when we first saw them? Unoriginal my ass.

Like I said, they are playing both sides. They ARE milking franchises. Mario, Zelda and Pokemon quite clearly. But they are coming up with or publishing new IPs too.

[Evil Avnovice]

Now, simply announce Mario Tennis, and I'm happy.

[Variable Gear]

This shyt is getting old.

Go talk to Konami, Capcom, Bungie, Nippon Ichi, Square-Enix, Tecmo, Namco-Bandai, Koei, EA, or Ubisoft about their dependence on franchises and let me know if you hear anything different. I'm all ears.

[boratika]

Nintendo tried a straight up baseball game on the Gamecube. It was called "Pennant Chase Baseball" and was canned before release (though essentially finnished.)

So there's some serious precedent of financial benefit in going for the Mario baseball.

edit: I wish they'd hurry up and milk a new Pikmin :D

[Variable Gear]

Nintendo tried a straight up baseball game on the Gamecube. It was called "Pennant Chase Baseball" and was canned before release (though essentially finnished.)

So there's some serious precedent of financial benefit in going for the Mario baseball.

edit: I wish they'd hurry up and milk a new Pikmin :D

It's sad that Pennant Chase Baseball got canned, but Nintendo has already experimented with the potential of a Mario-themed baseball title in the form of Mario Superstar Baseball (http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/sports/mariobaseball/) on the GC.

I agree that the Pikmin series deserves to be milked, especially on the Wii. I mean, isn't the system just built for a Pikmin game? I really hope we see one at E3...or later this year...or sometime in the console's lifecycle.

[Cyndair]

You only really see one iteration of each Nintendo sport on each console. There was only one mario baseball, tennis, and soccer game on the cube. It isn't like they are putting out Mario Baseball 07, Mario Baseball 08, Mario Baseball 09, etc.

I'll admit that the offerings on the GC felt a bit bare in terms of content apart from really fun multiplayer. However, the GC sports titles laid the groundwork and now we are seeing a lot of content added for the Wii iterations (Mario Strikers Charged was a huge improvement over the original). I dunno, they are fun to play with friends and if the controls work on Baseball, I look forward to playing it with casual gamers and family at gatherings.

[Chimpbot]

But they all play differently. Mario Kart is not significantly similar to Mario Hoops 3-on-3. As for readying the pitchforks... well, a lot of people around here seem to be really jazzed about Ninja Gaiden 2, which is really just a spin-off of Dead or Alive, which also has another spin-off in the form of DoA: XVB. I don't see a lot of pitchforks being rallied.

Ninja Gaiden was on the NES long before DoA was ever even dreamed of.
You don't see pitchforks being rallied because NG2 is a sequel to the game that revived the Ninja Gaiden series...not because it's a spinoff of a shitty fighting game that happened to feature the main character from the NG series as a bit of fan service.

Part of me hopes you're being sarcastic. The rest of me is just sad.

[Headcase]

For those that are curious, the GC version sucked.

How so? It was pretty much the N64 version with some positive additions and better graphics. IMO the gimmick courts were all well designed and most tended to reward skill. Some of the mini-games were also fun.

The only bad addition in my mind were the power shots, which I think you could turn off outside of tournaments. The shots themselves looked ok, but the repeated to all hell and they didn't add to the strategy.

Not really worth the money if you had the N64 version, but a decent update nonetheless. One thing I sort of remember is that the N64's special games let you play as the same character, and the GC's don't. This is a constant problem with Mario sports games now. In Mario Golf 64, everyone could play as the same character if they wanted to. Then in Tennis 64, only in special games, and after that, never.

I looked around, and I can't find any word on who is developing it, or if it's a Japanese or NA team.

Thanks for checking :)

[Heretic Machine]

Ninja Gaiden was on the NES long before DoA was ever even dreamed of.

And that wasn't part of the same franchise, sorry. I don't care if they retconned things later to say that they're the same character, they weren't the same originally, and they're really not similar in any way either in terms of gameplay, story, or theme.

You don't see pitchforks being rallied because NG2 is a sequel to the game that revived the Ninja Gaiden series...not because it's a spinoff of a shitty fighting game that happened to feature the main character from the NG series as a bit of fan service.

...Uh, so what? You're saying that SSBB isn't fun? That Mario Baseball won't be fun? Do you really think that we only play these games because Mario happens to be in them?

[Variable Gear]

How so? It was pretty much the N64 version with some positive additions and better graphics. IMO the gimmick courts were all well designed and most tended to reward skill. Some of the mini-games were also fun.

The only bad addition in my mind were the power shots, which I think you could turn off outside of tournaments. The shots themselves looked ok, but the repeated to all hell and they didn't add to the strategy.

I was going to say power shots, but I didn't know they were optional. I never bought the game because of the fact that, in the demo version, power shots ruined the strategy of the game entirely. If hit an awesome standard shot, then my effort was canceled out by a power shot. It still sucks that you have to deal with them in tournaments, but it's nice that 2-player games didn't need to be soured by them.

[Headcase]

Giant Bomb says Namco is credited in the press release for Sluggers. Makes sense since they worked on Super Mario Baseball. I like Golf, Tennis, and Strikers more, but Baseball wasn't a bad rental. If they improve the fielding and get the batting and pitching mechanics down right, this could be pretty solid.

There's only one problem: it's baseball ;)

[Kamalot]

The game's tone and style will be similar to that of Mario Strikers and Mario Tennis, with the usual lineup of classic Nintendo characters taking the field.

Is it just me, or do Mario Strikers (http://sickr.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/mario-strikers-charged1.jpg) and Mario Tennis (http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g225/OhhSnap50893gimp/Renders/MarioTennis.png) have decidedly different tones and styles?

[DaXIthR]

Is it just me, or do Mario Strikers (http://sickr.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/mario-strikers-charged1.jpg) and Mario Tennis (http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g225/OhhSnap50893gimp/Renders/MarioTennis.png) have decidedly different tones and styles?

The differences are far more exaggerated when you look at concept art featuring Peach.

[Kamalot]

The differences are far more exaggerated when you look at concept art featuring Peach.

You are right. Searching for Peach Mario Strikers (http://images.google.com/images?q=peach+mario+strikers&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi) returns a very different style than searching for Peach Mario Tennis (http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=peach+mario+tennis&btnG=Search+Images), Of course, a number of them are butt shots, but what can you do about that?