View Full Version : SWG Team Apologizes for Nerf
thecrazyd
08-23-2005, 08:26 AM
The controversial group XP nerf in Star Wars Galaxies was revoked due to the public outburst. The team also apologized for instating this.
On behalf of the entire LucasArts and SOE SWG team, we wanted to take this opportunity to apologize for a recent change we made regarding group experience (XP) rates. With Publish 22, we attempted to fix an unintended game play mechanic that we introduced with the Combat Upgrade earlier this year. Specifically, we wanted to correct a large divergence between the rate at which experience (XP) could be earned in a solo setting versus a group setting. After this change hit live, we were presented with a mountain of feedback describing how this change had a major negative impact on your enjoyment of the game. We want to let you know that we hear you and we value your feedback. You were right: we made a mistake on this one and we reversed out the change because of that feedback. We continue to learn from experience and pledge to improve our process for bringing you timely updates to Star Wars Galaxies.
How the christ they let that one slip in and not be aware of people's opinions on it beforehand?
Hieremias
08-23-2005, 08:36 AM
So when do they apologize for making a shitty game?
Heretic Machine
08-23-2005, 08:43 AM
So when do they apologize for making a shitty game?
Most people who say that have never actually played the game.
thecrazyd
08-23-2005, 08:45 AM
Or, at the very least, have not played it since the combat upgrade totally changed the way the game plays.
Reanimated
08-23-2005, 08:45 AM
So I'm not up on the whole history here since I just started playing SWG last month.
Is it now going to be harder or easier for me to group with higher level friends and power level?
thecrazyd
08-23-2005, 08:47 AM
Easier. Now the XP will not split, and everyone will get the same XP for the kill.
Yeah, the nerf sucked and the way they handled putting it into the game wasn't all that slick (from what I've gathered - as I don't actually own the game), but I think it's cool they at least listened to people and apologized for said problem. Ain't bashing here as I still play and love the game, but Blizzard has a tendency to not respond to issues that are actual issues when brought up. Mind you there's a horrific amount of whine on the WoW boards, but legitimate questions aren't even addressed and the moderators blow. So at least some kudos to the SWG team.
Abednigo
08-23-2005, 09:05 AM
With SWG and Matrix Online being a part of SOE's Station Pass I'm tempted to grab them. At least SWG. But then again, I hardly have time to play EQ and EQ2 along with WoW.
Malovech
08-23-2005, 09:18 AM
Most people who say that have never actually played the game.
That's crap, most people who say that have played that game and realized that Sony has no clue anymore (if they've ever had one).
Mondopest
08-23-2005, 09:30 AM
They are notorious for implementing nerfs into SWG without putting them in the release notes. It is insane. Even the devs of the Matrix Online had a feedback feature built into the client. You could give constructive criticism anytime you wanted. They actually read them as well. Goes to show the difference between Monolith and Sony Online Entertainment. The devs are very out of touch with the player-base as the only way to provide feedback to them is through forums and that is a minefield of trolls, off-topics, and ten year olds at best.
They probably just did this to take the heat of their unnanounced combat experience coversion rate nerf they introduced the patch before this one.
endrom
08-23-2005, 09:43 AM
That's crap, most people who say that have played that game and realized that Sony has no clue anymore (if they've ever had one).
no you dont have a clue what your talking about. I played SWG before we even had swoop bikes, thne left right before jump to lightspeed, form there I played CoH, EQ2, and WoW (which i still do) and after combat upgrade they got buff glitch that made you invincable. combat upgrade also made crafting and entertainer classes useless. SWG even though i love it so as my starting MMO, is dead, and its only a matter of time, its a real shame.
Royal Fool
08-23-2005, 10:02 AM
Thank goodness that Blizzard tweaked the biggest things in their game during the beta.. that game had 'combat' and 'xp' tweaks of its own, like lvl 30 warriors having upwards of 5000 health, or getting a bunch of upgrade points every level that you could put into various skills and stats.
Reanimated
08-23-2005, 10:05 AM
Good.
It was taking me FOREVER to level, despite the fact that I was out doing misisons with people that were 4x my level.
QueQueg
08-23-2005, 10:18 AM
no you dont have a clue what your talking about. I played SWG before we even had swoop bikes, thne left right before jump to lightspeed, form there I played CoH, EQ2, and WoW (which i still do) and after combat upgrade they got buff glitch that made you invincable. combat upgrade also made crafting and entertainer classes useless. SWG even though i love it so as my starting MMO, is dead, and its only a matter of time, its a real shame.
Wait, say what?
You said he has no clue, then you agreed with what he said?
jacktion
08-23-2005, 10:19 AM
Did the old combat upgrade/change help the game? Or did everyone hate it?
Malovech
08-23-2005, 10:23 AM
They are notorious for implementing nerfs into SWG without putting them in the release notes. It is insane. Even the devs of the Matrix Online had a feedback feature built into the client. You could give constructive criticism anytime you wanted. They actually read them as well. Goes to show the difference between Monolith and Sony Online Entertainment. The devs are very out of touch with the player-base as the only way to provide feedback to them is through forums and that is a minefield of trolls, off-topics, and ten year olds at best.
They probably just did this to take the heat of their unnanounced combat experience coversion rate nerf they introduced the patch before this one.
I totally agree with you. Sony are a pack of morons they have no clue what they are doing with MMORPGs. Instead of pushing the genre forward they keep retreading the same crap over and over.
EQ2 is the same thing as SWG, save for different graphics (which are hideous) and setting.
triptogn
08-23-2005, 10:40 AM
Can't wait to see your next MMORPG Malovech.
Malovech
08-23-2005, 10:59 AM
Can't wait to see your next MMORPG Malovech.
Oh that's rich, because I'm not a game developer I don't get to criticize? Think of something more creative please. I would've even accepted "U Sux0rs", at least I can laugh at that.
Sony is in a position to do innovative things with MMORPGs because of their size and the amount of money they can throw around. But like EA, they are content with feeding customers garbage and riding a wave of hype to sell games. That might work as an unscrupulous (yet profitable) business model, but it sure as hell doesn't make for good games.
thecrazyd
08-23-2005, 11:03 AM
I totally agree with you. Sony are a pack of morons they have no clue what they are doing with MMORPGs. Instead of pushing the genre forward they keep retreading the same crap over and over.
EQ2 is the same thing as SWG, save for different graphics (which are hideous) and setting.
Have you even played the games? That is total crap. SWG and EQ2 are different games, and play as such. And EQ2's graphics are not bad. Maybe the art direction is crappy, but it is one of the most graphically advanced MMOs out.
Did the old combat upgrade/change help the game? Or did everyone hate it?
Everyone hated it at first, but it is definately a step forward for the game. Makes it far more interesting, just took some time for the players stuck in their ways to get used to it.
Phades
08-23-2005, 11:07 AM
Wait, say what?
You said he has no clue, then you agreed with what he said?
I think he was just disagreeing with the point that they never had a clue. He's saying it used to be good and went downhill... or at least that's what I got out of it.
Malovech
08-23-2005, 11:13 AM
Have you even played the games? That is total crap. SWG and EQ2 are different games, and play as such. And EQ2's graphics are not bad. Maybe the art direction is crappy, but it is one of the most graphically advanced MMOs out.
Bah! They have minor differences. And yes I include lightspeed as part of that. They boil down to the same levelling-treadmill bs. Everything remotely fun in the game requires endless hours of mind-numbing grind to get to.
And the graphics for EQ2 and SWG are some of the worst I've ever seen. Sure the technology is state of the art, but what the artists chose to do with that technology is shameful.
Good graphics isn't just implemented technology it encompasses art direction, modeller skills, texture-artist skills, lighting skills etc. Of the numerous factors involved in "graphics" EQ2 and SWG excel only in technology implementation, making the overall result subpar.
Malovech
08-23-2005, 11:15 AM
I think he was just disagreeing with the point that they never had a clue. He's saying it used to be good and went downhill... or at least that's what I got out of it.
Sony never had a clue with either EQ2 or SWG. From beta both of those games were seriously flawed, lacked any level of originality or innovation, looked ugly, had terrible interfaces, boring gameplay etc...
thecrazyd
08-23-2005, 11:16 AM
Bah! They have minor differences. And yes I include lightspeed as part of that. They boil down to the same levelling-treadmill bs. Everything remotely fun in the game requires endless hours of mind-numbing grind to get to.
As does every MMO ever made.
And the graphics for EQ2 and SWG are some of the worst I've ever seen. Sure the technology is state of the art, but what the artists chose to do with that technology is shameful.
Good graphics isn't just implemented technology it encompasses art direction, modeller skills, texture-artist skills, lighting skills etc. Of the numerous factors involved in "graphics" EQ2 and SWG excel only in technology implementation, making the overall result subpar.
What are you comparing it to? Doom fucking 3? It is a MMO. The graphics are not going to be top of the pile. The graphics are very detailed and the texturing is fine. If you do not like the art direction, then I relate, but the graphics are good for a MMO.
Dirty Harry
08-23-2005, 11:25 AM
Bah! They have minor differences. And yes I include lightspeed as part of that. They boil down to the same levelling-treadmill bs. Everything remotely fun in the game requires endless hours of mind-numbing grind to get to.
And the graphics for EQ2 and SWG are some of the worst I've ever seen. Sure the technology is state of the art, but what the artists chose to do with that technology is shameful.
Good graphics isn't just implemented technology it encompasses art direction, modeller skills, texture-artist skills, lighting skills etc. Of the numerous factors involved in "graphics" EQ2 and SWG excel only in technology implementation, making the overall result subpar.
EQ2 is the only MMO on the market at the moment that most peoples machines cannot run at max.
Stop trying to troll, your not impressing me boy.
Played SWG for about a year then Wow came out and i left (i feelt i had "been there done that"). Now ive recently ended my Wow account and started to play SWG again and I love the combat upgrade. The game has fairly big and annoying faults but its still a unique and fun experience. I hope SOE does a SWG2, id be all over that.
Malovech
08-23-2005, 11:31 AM
As does every MMO ever made.
What are you comparing it to? Doom fucking 3? It is a MMO. The graphics are not going to be top of the pile. The graphics are very detailed and the texturing is fine. If you do not like the art direction, then I relate, but the graphics are good for a MMO.
I guess you didn't read my entire post. My argument is that graphics are not simply how many shaders that a given engine implements, or if it supports 8x aa etc... Graphics includes a large amount of talent on the part of the art team and because Sony could barely give too shits about that- they created two games that were all engine and no talent. If my system has to perform backflips to run an engine the result better be amazing, not crappy "my-first-3dmodel-level" renders. Therefore SWG and EQ2s graphics are chunder.
As a good comparison WoW has half the technology behind their engine, but their art team is so amazing at what they do they elevate the modest engine that game is running.
Malovech
08-23-2005, 11:33 AM
EQ2 is the only MMO on the market at the moment that most peoples machines cannot run at max.
Stop trying to troll, your not impressing me boy.
It's not my intention to troll, I'm trying to express my opinion. So what if most machines can't run EQ2, the result isn't worth it.
Dirty Harry
08-23-2005, 11:49 AM
It's not my intention to troll, I'm trying to express my opinion. So what if most machines can't run EQ2, the result isn't worth it.
Its one thing to express your opinion but it is a completely different thing to go around shoving your opinion into everyone else face like your hand is coated in chunky shit and nut butter. I understand that you did not find that these games are what you wanted. Personally i think most MMo's do suck pretty bad, that doesn't stop me from playing them because that all that is offered.
Any ways my point is, you've stated your opinion, your done here. Your opinion is not the majority of everyones opinion, hence why I am suggesting you should ceast and desist since you've already said your bit.
Talanvor
08-23-2005, 11:51 AM
Meh. I have a friend who played an Empire aligned merc, and he constantly had problems with Jedi kicking them around. Really gave me no reason to quit CoH and join him in SWG.
Course now I'm on GW, and so is he, heh.
thecrazyd
08-23-2005, 11:57 AM
I guess you didn't read my entire post. My argument is that graphics are not simply how many shaders that a given engine implements, or if it supports 8x aa etc... Graphics includes a large amount of talent on the part of the art team and because Sony could barely give too shits about that- they created two games that were all engine and no talent. If my system has to perform backflips to run an engine the result better be amazing, not crappy "my-first-3dmodel-level" renders. Therefore SWG and EQ2s graphics are chunder.
As a good comparison WoW has half the technology behind their engine, but their art team is so amazing at what they do they elevate the modest engine that game is running.
And that is bullshit. I would say that Curse of Monkey Island is a game with beautiful art direction, but the graphics are not beautiful. I would say the same about WoW. Doom 3 has better graphics then HalfLife 2, but HL2 has better art direction and therefore looks better. Insulting the graphics is juvenile, and you are doing nothing but trolling.
Bushido
08-23-2005, 12:16 PM
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6945/iseedumbpeople21212nl.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
AboveAvgCharles
08-23-2005, 12:20 PM
I think referring to "graphics" as the technology behind the visuals, and "art direction" as the creative design present in the graphics is a good, and important distinction. It seems the main conflict here is differing terminology.
Case in point, EQ2 has fairly impressive graphics (see above), but a sub-par art direction. How's that? Can we agree to disagree?
mindstrike
08-23-2005, 12:54 PM
Speaking of Nerfs... I hope some people will complain about the upcoming Nerf in CoH in the next Publish. As a tanker, I love having a huge mob on me to get xp... My Build is for aggro management, not offensive...
But, we will see...
I would feel Better if they sent me my email for CoV beta... ;)
Galaxies was the only MMRPG I played and quit in a week. I hated it.
thecrazyd
08-23-2005, 02:39 PM
Galaxies was the only MMRPG I played and quit in a week. I hated it.
I assume this was before the CU completely changed the way the game was played.
triptogn
08-23-2005, 02:43 PM
If your machine can't handle EQ2's graphics to any degree, you obviously haven't experienced the game and all it has to offer graphically. It's obvious you are just here to troll.
I don't know of an MMO that has better graphics that EQ2 when it is on a good machine. The art direction is what you should be complaining about, as alot of people have legitimate gripes about it. But that is personal preference, and I happen to dig EQ2's look as do many others.
Anyone that has played EQ2 longer than the first month it was out knows the game has improved tenfold since release. Taking a dump on SOE for digging in and improving EQ2 and SWG the way they have is just stupid. Would you rather the games just stay stagnant and not improve?
As for innovation in SWG, how many MMOS do you play that have a fully fledged space flight and combat engine on top of an entire ground based (normal) MMO game to go along with it?
It's not my intention to troll, I'm trying to express my opinion. So what if most machines can't run EQ2, the result isn't worth it.
Bushido
08-23-2005, 03:16 PM
As for innovation in SWG, how many MMOS do you play that have a fully fledged space flight and combat engine on top of an entire ground based (normal) MMO game to go along with it?
You must be reffering to one of the expansions to SWG.
thecrazyd
08-23-2005, 03:24 PM
You must be reffering to one of the expansions to SWG.
I am sure you have a point, but I cannot seem to decipher it.
jwbxx
08-23-2005, 03:43 PM
They should also Apologize for their game being garabage.
thecrazyd
08-23-2005, 03:53 PM
They should also Apologize for their game being garabage.
You should apologize for your ignorance, trolling, and poor spelling.
Demize99
08-23-2005, 06:37 PM
EQ2 is the only MMO on the market at the moment that most peoples machines cannot run at max.
Because a poorly coded graphics engine is the defenition of a great graphics engine. I'm sorry, I just can't see this agrument as being at all near valid. By that standard coding an engine optimized for technology 2 years in the future would be the most advanced graphical engine in the world. No, rather I say the "best" graphical engine is the one that does the most with the average system.
jwbxx
08-23-2005, 08:10 PM
You should apologize for your ignorance, trolling, and poor spelling.I'll apologize for the spelling, but the game is garbage.
thecrazyd
08-23-2005, 10:00 PM
I'll apologize for the spelling, but the game is garbage.
In what manner? Have you even played it? How about since the Combat Upgrade? Or, are you just pulling this out of your ass, as I would assume. Here is an example of a dev listening to a legitimate argument, and solving a problem, and all I hear is bitching.
Liquidize105
08-23-2005, 10:03 PM
Whip out your blankie and get on ya knees you ingrate SOE! Apologize properly! Your customers are not money signs or farm animals! You got some of them whipped but not all of them!
jwbxx
08-23-2005, 10:23 PM
In what manner? Have you even played it? How about since the Combat Upgrade? Or, are you just pulling this out of your ass, as I would assume. Here is an example of a dev listening to a legitimate argument, and solving a problem, and all I hear is bitching.A played the game originally when it came, being a huge star wars fan and an experience mmo player. Everyone here saw the trailers and we were all geeked up on the graphics thinking it would be the 2nd coming, but it failed to deliver. I thought it needed more development and i deleted from my comp, just a like of other star wars and people on these forums, if you like it so be it, but a lot of other people hated it.
Bushido
08-23-2005, 11:20 PM
Here is an example of a dev listening to a legitimate argument, and solving a problem, and all I hear is bitching.
More like Dev trying to save his Job. If he had been listening to the players this would not have happened. Since when has SOE given a shit about the customer? They prolly watched their stock plummet as people quit in droves. The investors are the only people Devs listen to.
thecrazyd
08-24-2005, 12:01 AM
A played the game originally when it came, being a huge star wars fan and an experience mmo player. Everyone here saw the trailers and we were all geeked up on the graphics thinking it would be the 2nd coming, but it failed to deliver. I thought it needed more development and i deleted from my comp, just a like of other star wars and people on these forums, if you like it so be it, but a lot of other people hated it.
Name one MMO that had a good launch. I fucking dare you. There have been so many major changes to this game that you would not recognize it. Yet you can still insult it. Funny.
bobbler
08-24-2005, 12:09 AM
More like Dev trying to save his Job. If he had been listening to the players this would not have happened. Since when has SOE given a shit about the customer? They prolly watched their stock plummet as people quit in droves. The investors are the only people Devs listen to.
Anyone else find bushido's comments even the slightest bit ironic (Hint: look at the sig!)?
Tee hee.
Lets not be so senselessly negative, please.
jwbxx
08-24-2005, 12:46 AM
Name one MMO that had a good launch. I fucking dare you. There have been so many major changes to this game that you would not recognize it. Yet you can still insult it. Funny.WOW, that game was beta tested to death and still had a very stable product.
FF11 even though i dont like that game it came out smooth also, because of good beta testing.
Don't get mad at me because those games were launched correctly.
triptogn
08-24-2005, 10:18 AM
I recall waiting in hour long lines to get into WoW at launch, servers constantly bouncing up and down for months. I don't call that a great launch sorry.
I recall waiting in hour long lines to get into WoW at launch, servers constantly bouncing up and down for months. I don't call that a great launch sorry.
Agreed, but you ignored FF XI in his post and went straight for WoW (which I agree had a shaky launch and is still - in some patches - shaky). As I recall, that one was a pretty good launch.
triptogn
08-24-2005, 06:38 PM
You guys played the FF XI launch in Japan? You guys are pretty hardcore!
Who hosts FF XI servers and customer service btw?
You guys played the FF XI launch in Japan? You guys are pretty hardcore!
Who hosts FF XI servers and customer service btw?
I'm pretty sure the servers are handled by Ifrit and customer service is performed by various Moogles.
thecrazyd
08-24-2005, 08:18 PM
You guys played the FF XI launch in Japan? You guys are pretty hardcore!
Who hosts FF XI servers and customer service btw?
I am not positive about the servers, but customer service is handled by none other than SOE.
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