Mark Ecko 1, NY City 0

[Deadend]

Gamespot is reporting that Mark Ecko just won his case against NYC. He did it (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/08/22/news_6131703.html), and that means the show will go on.

Ecko sued, and a judge today said that the city's defense was bunk, Reuters reported this afternoon. The ruling paves the way for Wednesday's scheduled event, which will feature 20 graffiti artists spraying up mock subway cars. The city said such an event would incite vandalism.

"By the same token, presumably, a street performance of 'Hamlet' would be tantamount to encouraging revenge murder," U.S. District Judge Jed Rakoff said. "As for a street performance of 'Oedipus Rex,' don't even think about it."

That is such a great quote... Jed Rakoff is now the coolest person in govenment.

[NoName]

Wow, that Jed Rakoff quote is awesome. I do believe it made my day. Then again, it's only 9 in the morning...
(stupid work making me get up early)

[drakkarim]

unfortunately they're both right. its a stupid thing to try to get the game to not come out because you think kids will copy it, and its stupid to think that they won't.

which reminds me, why are so many kids stupid these days? do they all need a good size 12 combat boot up their ass to get them to realize the world doesn't revolve around them?

[Scaryboy]

which reminds me, why are so many kids stupid these days? do they all need a good size 12 combat boot up their ass to get them to realize the world doesn't revolve around them?

Kids are stupid these days as they were stupid back in our day as they have always been stupid. Being stupid is why children are children and turning your back on stupid ways is what it means to grow up.

I think the main problem with a lot of these arguments are based around the concept that children are angelic little cherubs if it wasn't for that evil evil media trying to corrupt them, something I think is completely wrong. Kids are evil anarchic demons by default and it requires direction and the construtive application of discipline to steer them on the correct course. Otherwise why would they need parents in the first place?

[Kefkataran]

Jed Rakoff. Oh man. Wow. I like him.

Kids are evil anarchic demons by default

No offense, but man I'm glad you weren't my parents. Yeesh.

[earthworm48]

There also seems to be a lot more "everybody wins" shit in schools and they aren't disciplined as harshly from what I see of today's youth. All this "I've got rights!!" stuff too. They carry on with that and eventually someone will just take them away as they are abusing them.

[Kefkataran]

Yeah. Fucking giving kids rights. What shit is that?! And everybody wins? Fuck that! Society's not about cooperation! Social darwinisim!

Dammit, I can't wait to be back in political theory classes next week.

[drakkarim]

Kids are stupid these days as they were stupid back in our day as they have always been stupid. Being stupid is why children are children and turning your back on stupid ways is what it means to grow up.


I would disagree with the first part. I think kids are getting stupider (only have to look at general education levels over the years), they're doing stupider things, and more OF them are doing it...

i think its the governments way of solving the illegal immigration problem, grow our own crop of low wage workers.

[Kefkataran]

So if that's the case they aren't really getting stupider so much as we're making them stupider.

[Scaryboy]

If they are getting stupider it's because we have allowed them to get stupider. It's not a new genetic trait amongst humans, it's that we're letting the tail wag the dog within the education system and that has caused the situations that earthworm48 mentioned above.

[Kefkataran]

Speaking of education: I had to send this story to my favorite couple English profs if only for the quote alone. I think they'll get a kick out of that.

[drakkarim]

So if that's the case they aren't really getting stupider so much as we're making them stupider.

well, that's true in the sense that we decide things by who we vote into office, after that, its really out of our hands. and those that don't vote (that are capable of doing so) should bend the F over and smile while the ceo's vote themselves raises for closing down plants to send to their jobs to china. but hey, as long as they have their 'reality tv' drivel, then who cares.

[Justin_McElroy]

My advice?

let this one go. (http://www.getthesugar.com/wp/?p=28)

[Kefkataran]

and those that don't vote (that are capable of doing so) should bend the F over and smile while the ceo's vote themselves raises for closing down plants to send to their jobs to china. but hey, as long as they have their 'reality tv' drivel, then who cares.

Okay, okay, I'll admit, I pretty much agree with that bit entirely. I'm with you there.

[Kelegacy]

well, that's true in the sense that we decide things by who we vote into office, after that, its really out of our hands. and those that don't vote (that are capable of doing so) should bend the F over and smile while the ceo's vote themselves raises for closing down plants to send to their jobs to china. but hey, as long as they have their 'reality tv' drivel, then who cares.

You mean like Laguna Beach? Wow, I think I got 20 pts dumber by watching that show a few weekends ago. Everytime I turn MTV on, its there!

MTV: Making kids dumber and promiscuous since 1986.

[ÜberJumper]

Oedipus Rex? hahah awesome....The problem raised by this play is: is there justice in a world, where, for no reason clear to ethical understanding, the worst happens to the best? (http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1984/2/84.02.03.x.html)

[nein89]

Kids need hope, and a compelling reason to care. We're doing a miserable job of providing either.

Most of my solutions involve a massive reduction of the global population, so I'll understand if you disagree.

[Kefkataran]

Bringing up Oedipus felt wonderfully apt for some reason. Now I need to read that article.

[Kelegacy]

Bringing up Oedipus felt wonderfully apt for some reason. Now I need to read that article.

Let me guess: Oedipus is your hero? I just hope you have a MILF for a mother. Otherwise, that's just sick.

[if76]

I'm not sure if I like the judge's analogy. None of the actors actually die in Hamlet but actually painting actual subway cars is mimiking the actual event.

A better analogy would be charging two men who were boxing with assault. Obviously hitting someone in the face is a crime but not when the victim gives the perpetrator permission like in a boxing ring just like spraypainting a subway car is a crime but not when its owner gives you permission.

[AzN.Homeboy]

I'm not sure if I like the judge's analogy. None of the actors actually die in Hamlet but actually painting actual subway cars is mimiking the actual event.
Wow, that's a pretty crappy reason to not like the analogy.

It's like saying that because videogames are virtual, they don't affect people's behavior at all.

[Kefkataran]

Let me guess: Oedipus is your hero? I just hope you have a MILF for a mother. Otherwise, that's just sick.

No and no. And no. NO MEANS NO.

None of the actors actually die in Hamlet but actually painting actual subway cars is mimiking the actual event.

They aren't painting an actual subway car. :) They're painting a mock subway car. Just like Hamlet would be mock-murders. :)

[Deadend]

Kids are not getting stupider. People who run schools are.

Know why kids get away with things now? Because rules have become binary. You either have no punishment, or it's suspension for multiple weeks. Nothing in between really. It's that whole Zero-Tolerance thing. About getting "tough" on students.

[Kefkataran]

Know why kids get away with things now? Because rules have become binary. You either have no punishment, or it's suspension for multiple weeks. Nothing in between really. It's that whole Zero-Tolerance thing. About getting "tough" on students.

You've got something of a point here. I know a couple local high schools with zero tolerance rules where half the time the people affected by them are the ones who honestly didn't do shit. It's really ridiculous.

[Zurik]

I never understood suspension. Usually you got it from missing a bunch of classes or something lame, and how is getting sent home a punishment? You don't have to come to school for a day? Sweet! Glad I missed all the zero tolerance crap though, feel sorry for you people that have to deal with those out-of-touch teachers.

[Kefkataran]

feel sorry for you people that have to deal with those out-of-touch teachers.


Well, first off it isn't the teacher's policy. Teachers don't even come close to creating policy in the majority of cases. That's school board/administration stuff, and they're out of touch by design (read: fuck beauracracy). As for teachers being out of touch, there are some of course, but just as many as usual. the really awesome thing is when you get one who isn't. I only had one or two really great teachers in high school, but I'm pretty sure I'll always remember them for just how much they helped me out.

[Alexious]

Is anyone else blown away by the fact that stupider is actually a word?

I was going to go on a tirade about the irony of you guys talking about stupidity while using a fake word. But then I looked it up and it's legit. So... I guess I really don't have anything to say.

[Kefkataran]

Heh. I'm sort of surprised. Thanks for pointing it out!

[51|RandoM]

Eh, Kids are probably smarter than they used to be.

Unfortunately, being smart doesn't do you much good without a reservoir of good experience to draw upon.

They just end up using their intelligence to achieve goals that our generation places no value in, or actively discourages.

...ultimately, just like every generation before it.

Every time I hear somebody say something like, "Well, stuff like that never happened in my day." I just have to laugh. Stuff like that DID happen in your day. You just didn't have CNN and a video camera on every street corner to capture it live and show it to you.

[mister_slim]

This is giving me Underground History of American Education flashbacks. Anyway, go read some John Taylor Gatto.

[Kelegacy]

I'd like to see this event. I've never seen anyone create graffiti before and would be interested in seeing it performed. I mean, GOOD graffiti, not the crap I see on overpasses here in Maine. Stuff like, I FUK MOOSES HAHA COCK.

[president_fred]

Eh, Kids are probably smarter than they used to be.

Unfortunately, being smart doesn't do you much good without a reservoir of good experience to draw upon.

They just end up using their intelligence to achieve goals that our generation places no value in, or actively discourages.

...ultimately, just like every generation before it.

Yeah but come on you have to admit that the beatles are totally cool cats, right. What about the Stones or sticking it to the man ;) . If you get the younger generation you are retarded but thats always been the case they are not dumb we just don't get them. Remember some people like southpark ffs and consider it satire so there you go. Are they right? Maybe, but I dont get it, I always thought satire was supposed to be a little subtle.

[Apex]

quote from Russell Petes: "Parents ... please beat your kids"

Thats the reason why kids are such little sh**s these days. You can't really bring any kind of charge against a minor that they actually fear. They just dont fear any repurcussions that can be brought against them. Especially with this "anti-kid beating" movement thing. And when I say beating, I dont mean a belt buckle beating within an inch of their life.

I mean a good slap around the backside or the thighs, a clip around the ear.

An parents say "I dont believe in hitting my kids, I only need to talk to them" hey, is that your kid acting like a little brat over there? Kids like to push the limits, figure out where the boundaries lie.

J.S. Mill knew what he was talking about, Pain and Pleasure are our primary masters. Its those masters that rule our kids. Verbal deiscipline only goes so far.

I mean come on? when you were kids you werent scared of what any other adult could do to you. But when someone said "Im going to tell your parents/father/mother" that put the fear of god into you cos you know you were in trouble then.

[Kefkataran]

quote from Russell Petes: "Parents ... please beat your kids"

Thats the reason why kids are such little sh**s these days. You can't really bring any kind of charge against a minor that they actually fear. They just dont fear any repurcussions that can be brought against them. Especially with this "anti-kid beating" movement thing. And when I say beating, I dont mean a belt buckle beating within an inch of their life. An parents say "I dont believe in hitting my kids, I only need to talk to them" hey, is that your kid acting like a little brat over there? Kids like to push the limits, figure out where the boundaries lie.

I mean a good slap around the backside or the thighs, a clip around the ear.

As someone who didn't get beat or hit at all as a child and turned out just fine: physical harming a child is not necessary to create a good human being. The preferred method, in my opinion, would be giving the child reasons to respect you rather than fear you.

J.S. Mill knew what he was talking about, Pain and Pleasure are our primary masters. Its those masters that rule our kids. Verbal deiscipline only goes so far.

As someone who's been reading a lot of John Rawls this summer: The pain/pleasure principal is a painfully simple way of looking at desire. In truth there are many more complex desire systems, and while these aren't all fully in action as children, that's where they're starting to go.

I mean come on? when you were kids you werent scared of what any other adult could do to you. But when someone said "Im going to tell your parents/father/mother" that put the fear of god into you cos you know you were in trouble then.

I knew I was in trouble, but never physical trouble. I was always more afraid of losing my mother's respect because I respected her. I still say there are far better ways to raise a child than by the fist.

[Apex]

As someone who didn't get beat or hit at all as a child and turned out just fine: physical harming a child is not necessary to create a good human being. The preferred method, in my opinion, would be giving the child reasons to respect you rather than fear you.



As someone who's been reading a lot of John Rawls this summer: The pain/pleasure principal is a painfully simple way of looking at desire. In truth there are many more complex desire systems, and while these aren't all fully in action as children, that's where they're starting to go.



I knew I was in trouble, but never physical trouble. I was always more afraid of losing my mother's respect because I respected her. I still say there are far better ways to raise a child than by the fist.


My mum beat me, put a slipper to my backside if I ever didnt listen to her or I didnt understand why she was telling me so but I'd carry on anyway. My parents were somewhat strict. But I dont resent it at all, im grateful for it when I look at how I turned out compared to how alot of my friends turned out who didnt get disciplined. I also have 4 nephews an one neice, im around them alot, love them alot too. Mostly their well behaved but not always, they have their days. I think anyone who thinks that kids will always be good as gold and only need to be told are living on another planet.

[Kelegacy]

I can hear Perigon coming. Everyone quick, hide!

[Kefkataran]

I think anyone who thinks that kids will always be good as gold and only need to be told are living on another planet.

I didn't say that. I just said physical abuse, even on the smallest level, is *not* necessary to teach children how to be good people. While I guess I wouldn't exactly look down on it, it's something I didn't have employed against me, something I will never employ against my children, and something that I honestly believe is an excuse for lazy parenting.

I can hear Perigon coming. Everyone quick, hide!

I call under his bed! I love surprise parties!