Bethesda Hints at Console Superiority for Oblivion

[bapenguin]

Our buddy Pete Hines from Bethesda had an interview over at The ConsoleWars (http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/08/exclusive-interview-with-pete-hines-of.html). In it he talks about Oblivion and a few tidbits on Fallout 3. It sounds like Oblivion will really need a very beefy PC to run.TCW: "Will the 360 version of Oblivion be equal or superior to the PC version?"

Pete Hines: "That’s a tough question because “PC” can mean an almost infinite number of things. What video card? Sound card? How much RAM? Are the right drivers installed? The list goes on and on. All these things determine performance on a PC. The advantage of the Xbox 360 is that it’s designed to run our game, period. You know if you have a 360 it will look as good as it can possibly look. If you have the latest, greatest PC with the best video card, etc., it will probably look the same as the Xbox 360 version. Anything else will probably lag behind.

When people ask us whether or not to do a major PC upgrade or get the console version of one of our games, we always recommend the console version. Our games tend to push the limits of technology pretty hard, so it’s much easier to predict performance on a closed box than one with thousands of possible configurations."

From the sound of the interview, the console version will probably look better (unless you have a TOP of the line PC), while the PC version will be more open to mods etc.

[retsudo]

Our buddy Pete Hines from Bethesda had an interview over at The ConsoleWars (http://theconsolewars.blogspot.com/2005/08/exclusive-interview-with-pete-hines-of.html). In it he talks about Oblivion and a few tidbits on Fallout 3. It sounds like Oblivion will really need a very beefy PC to run.

From the sound of the interview, the console version will probably look better, while the PC version will be more open to mods etc.


Bullshit. Even the 360 is still limited to low resolution, even with an HD-TV. The PC version will look better on a new machine, the same as every other game. With the added bonus, of course, that it can be played on an older machine if you don't have a new machine.

[DevDict]

I believe as Microsoft's launch partner, he couldn't have said otherwise.

[Morratut]

Bullshit. Even the 360 is still limited to low resolution, even with an HD-TV. The PC version will look better on a new machine, the same as every other game. With the added bonus, of course, that it can be played on an older machine if you don't have a new machine.

Just because things are in higher resolution doesn't automatically make it superior. I'm sure you really appreciate 1600x1200 for example on a 19" monitor :rolleyes:.

Personally i find it funny that some PC users are obsessed with higher resolution when most of them only run it on a 19" monitors. You can have the all the pixels you want on a PC monitor. It's still not going to be as immersive as a nice big widescreen HDTV :) in my opinion of course ;)

[H.Bogard]

From the sound of the interview, the console version will probably look better, while the PC version will be more open to mods etc.

Where the hell does it say in the interview that "the 360 looks better than the pc."

Stuff like this on the main page is just annoying

[Everlost_MI]

Then there is the whole question of do you want to be able to play the game out of the box on Xbox 360 or do you want to try to make it work if you don't have a bleeding edge PC?

[VoodooKarma]

Bullshit. Even the 360 is still limited to low resolution, even with an HD-TV. The PC version will look better on a new machine, the same as every other game. With the added bonus, of course, that it can be played on an older machine if you don't have a new machine.



Let's see, should I take the advice of the company who developed the game or some anonymous poster on the internet. Hmmmm, tough choice.

[Morratut]

I reckon on the PC version in the intro you should get a 'Xbox360, the way its meant to be played' animation ;)

/Morratut ducks

[Vandenh]

Playing Oblivion from my couch is more important IMHO. If it looks as good as PC version, that is an added bonus. The wireless controller, soft couch, big screen and Dolby does it for me.

My PC wil be an RTS/MMORPG machine when I get a 360.

[51|RandoM]

Just another developer dumbing down their game to console levels.

Nothing new here. Just scratch them off your list as people who have the ability to exploit advances in pc hardware, as people who can code a game to run at multiple levels of performance, as people who give a shit about the community after the game is sold.

After all, with most console games, there is no community to worry about. Live is changing that, slowly but surely, I suppose.

Well, most of us live in the land of the almighty dollar, don't suppose we can complain when people place it highest on the altar.

[51|RandoM]

Playing Oblivion from my couch is more important IMHO. If it looks as good as PC version, that is an added bonus. The wireless controller, soft couch, big screen and Dolby does it for me.


wow, another person who can't play his pc from the couch.

I feel sorry for you guys. I've been playing my pc with "wireless controller, soft couch, big screen, and Dolby" for years...

Console has exactly one advantage over pc for me, and only one. That advantage is the games I want to play that are only on console.

[The_Reckoning]

I don't like playing on consoles because of the control interface. When consoles start shipping with mice and keyboards, complete internet access, retroplayable games from as far back as I like, and open source software, then I'll switch.

The reason I stick with PC, is that I know my PC in 10 years will still be able to play Red Alert and Dune 2000.

[bapenguin]

Maybe I should rephrase my comment, I wrote it very early. Oblivion will only look up to par with the 360 on the very high end PCs. Which...is really something we knew already.

[Deadend]

Agh! This is quite frustrating to listen to everyone this early in the morning.

For me, the X360 may be the best way to get Oblivion on, as upgrading my PC to the point where it may run Oblivion the way it should would cost $400 easily. That still does not promise the game will look, or run as well as the X360 version.

The guy is saying that if you want to make sure the game runs perfect, without shelling out $3,000 to make sure you have the best damn PC you can.... get a X360.

[bapenguin]

Then there is the whole question of do you want to be able to play the game out of the box on Xbox 360 or do you want to try to make it work if you don't have a bleeding edge PC?

I think that is what Pete's point is.

[The_Reckoning]

Makes sense.

I'll just wait 2 years or so till after the game's released for when my new circa 2008 PC can play it faster and better than the 360.

[holysin]

They recommend the console version of their games? is that a joke?
Morrowind ran like shit on the xbox, imho it was only playable on pc!

And to the poster of this news: the game on pc will look at good as on the xbox 360. And of course you need a high end pc, just look at the damn screenshots. Did you hope to play it on a geforce 4 mx?


If you're planning on getting the 360 version, you better hope bethesda's definition of a playable framerate got better since morrowind on the xbox.

[MrMeatshake]

Playing Oblivion from my couch is more important IMHO. If it looks as good as PC version, that is an added bonus. The wireless controller, soft couch, big screen and Dolby does it for me.

My PC wil be an RTS/MMORPG machine when I get a 360.

yeeeap.

/me looks @ the prices of HDTVs and new sofas.

[MrMeatshake]

wow, another person who can't play his pc from the couch.
I feel sorry for you guys. I've been playing my pc with "wireless controller, soft couch, big screen, and Dolby" for years...

eeeurgh. using controllers on a system that isn't designed for it? i feel sorry for you. unless the drivers have improved by 100s of times in the last 2 years this is just a total pain.

oh, and u wanna plug that headset in? go ahead, you'll disable your 5.1 surround sound system, though :D

[earthworm48]

Your PC may not be able run those games in 10 years due to software and hardware conflicts with those old games. Also your PC can run them now why upgrade to play 10 year old games. I know you didn't say you'd upgrade but you will be if you are sticking with your PC. Don't pretend you can see the future.

With regards to the resolution, I have a 2405FPW and I now wish I hadn't bought it. Why? Well the fact is for games too look good on it I have to play at the native res (1920x1200) which means that I'll need to upgrade my PC more often which is a waste. HDTV's look fantastic, and from the trailers I've seen running at 1280x720 for games the games will also look great. The resolution argument isn't as valid now with HDTVs.

Well if my PC can run it well I'm getting it for that if not I'll get the 360 version.

I can't help the feeling that people who defend the PCs the way they do (or defend any format without even accepting valid counter arguments) are rather immature, or they are just smarting that the PC they spent so much money on will not be that great with handling the newest PC games. I personally am reaching the state now where I care less about upgrading my PC as the time when there would be lots of awesome new games between upgrades has passed. Also the genre which I get the most out of (RPGs) has seemingly dried up on the PC, theres little selection in that way, FPSs are done really now and while I play WoW occasionally, I don't think MMORPGs will ever replace true RPGs.

[MrMeatshake]

I can't help the feeling that people who defend the PCs the way they do (or defend any format without even accepting valid counter arguments) are rather immature, or they are just smarting that the PC they spent so much money on will not be that great with handling the newest PC games. I personally am reaching the state now where I care less about upgrading my PC as the time when there would be lots of awesome new games between upgrades has passed. Also the genre which I get the most out of (RPGs) has seemingly dried up on the PC, theres little selection in that way, FPSs are done really now and while I play WoW occasionally, I don't think MMORPGs will ever replace true RPGs.

i agree. i used 2 b a fervent supporter of PC games, but would never say 'buying console games is silly' or using PC is better in some way. in truth i could see exactly why people were buying thier SNES for streetfighter II and N64 for killer instinct (notice a pattern?) - as i've got older and can now afford consoles without the 'i REALLY need this PC to do my work on, dad, REALLY!' i've loved having an xbox, and most of the problems i though i'd have compared to the 'good old' PC days have either been surmounted by games/hardware designers or have been non-issues.

[Vandenh]

I feel sorry for you guys. I've been playing my pc with "wireless controller, soft couch, big screen, and Dolby" for years..

Sorry dude... the amount of money you have to spend to do all this is the same as buying a 360. Also my PC wouldn't be able to use those higher resolutions anyway, and let's not even mention the way you would have to reconfigure a controller to work with all the keys of a PC game (I hope you are not suggesting using a wireless keyboard and mouse from your couch?)... what is the use?

[Grimgrock]

What are the PC system requirements?
We don't know at this time, but it will certainly look the best on the latest hardware available when the game is released.

This is from the official FAQ on bethesda's Web site. Unless they have released this information and haven't updated the FAQ, how is one supposed to plan accordingly. Incidently, I have an ATI 9800 Pro (256 MB) and 2 GB RAM. I know the card isn't top of the line but it isn't exactly bargain basement yet either.

It is a big decision: upgrade (read: replace old system for new system) my PC or buy an Xbox 360. If I go with the same brand computer I have now (Dell), the upgrade will cost about $2500 (a guess) (plus shipping/tax). Buying an Xbox will cost $399 plus tax. I don't know what kind of room there is inside my case so for the moment just upgrading the video card is off the table. There is also the question of power supply requirements. It's an XPS system I bought in March of 2004.

[Derella]

Not being able to use the toolset is enough to disuade me from buying an Xbox360.

[earthworm48]

What would you do with the toolset?

[Xerxes]

Holysin when Morrowind first came out I remember playing it just fine(until i got too damn bored of it) while people where on forums everywhere whining about it locking there computer and having to play it on lower settings. After the upgrades I'm sure, "Yeah it beat the shit out of xbox." And then countless mods again for a game. Holy smokes PCs rule.

I suppose if you don't have the latest gfx card (what is it the x800 platinum xt house shaker or the nvidia 8900) however and maybe 1+ gig of RAM, you'll be shelling out over $400 to squeeze the full potential out of it.

What's being said is the Xbox 360 is topped off as far as they are going. There is no changing the card or boosting the AA. There is no overclocking and adding 5 fans to keep it cool in the system.

Someone was probably being funny, but yeah, your 2008 will beat the shit out of xbox 360 playing Oblivion...

[zipR]

Does anyone else's eyes freak out after playing games on a TV for long? After about 10 minutes, my eyes start to water like crazy and I have to stop. I always wondered if it is the refresh rate that causes me problems.

Oh, and responding to an earlier post about 19" monitors -- resolution does matter A LOT even on smaller screens (I personally game on a 17" monitor). 1600x1200 looks a lot better than 640x480 regardless of the screen size.

[Taco]

Resolution is my major grievance against consoles. Not only are the graphics worse, the the HUD/GUI is nearly always ugly and massive, see any console port on a PC.

Yes, 1600x1200 is most defintly noticeable on my 22", I can bump it up even higher and notice the difference but the performance hit isn't worth it.

In any case the 360 version SHOULD dwarf the PC version in graphics. It seems expecations for graphics in consoles compared to PCs become less every cycle. Graphics is the only thing consoles have.

[Averic]

Exactly Retsudo... The resolution on the Xbox 360 does not even come close to the resolution a High end PC can handle.

[VoodooKarma]

Exactly Retsudo... The resolution on the Xbox 360 does not even come close to the resolution a High end PC can handle.


Key words in that statement are 'high end PC'.

[Borys]

I'm not going to post in this thread.

[Frogleg Special]

Just another Xboxhead wants to stir up the bee nest to get some needed platform fight masturbation.

I'm going with Borys.

[Xerxes]

It's like every Xbox 360 post ends up a scene from Michael Jackson "Beat It" where PC gamers and Console gamers dance around with switch blades. That video looked silly didn't it. These post are getting that way.

Yeah I know I'm dancing with the console coat, sheesh. Continue dancing...

[earthworm48]

Depends on your monitor. What i was saying the difference between things like 1280x720 and 1280x1024 (probably the most common PC res) is slight, (HDTvs can do 1080 though 1080p TVs are rare and the 360 soesn't support this) and on my 2405FPW as the res is higher (native) i have to give my PC more of a beating so there is less chance I can stick effects on on the new games without an upgrade. I got my PC last December (and it's poweful A64 3500+ 1GB Ballistix PC3200 DDR and I got a 7800 GTX recently also) but I know that I'm already having to put more money into a good upgrade.

Fact is the GFX cards aren't the main thing that determine the performance. CPUs and RAM are also a large part (and the speed of the RAM). I have a problem with the tech companies at the moment as they keep moving us onto new CPU sockets w more often, New RAM sockets and soon new GFX card sockets (Next year intel will have new mobos for new CPUs, AMD will release M" sockets and DDR2 support, then in 07 there will be DDR3 mobos, and PCI-e 2 according to roadmaps from AMD and Intel). Also these recent X-Fi card's prices made me laugh, and we will soon have physics cards (Oh yay another expensive component).

My old here CRT goes up too 1600x1200, but on games when I run at 1280x1024 then 1600x1200 I notice barely any difference, I'd ratehr have the better performance (also in some games the writing and HUD get far too small).

[rein]

OMFG!! Why don't we just make If it's on the 360, it's the golden shit the slogan for EvAv?

I will take the modding over whatever it is that is supposed to be better about the console version. What exactly did he say was better? That on the console you will not need to optimize it for the best performance? As far as it looking better on the 360. If it does, who cares? Like I said, the mods are much more important to me than the looks. No way in hell it is going to look that much better on the 360 any way.

[The_Reckoning]

Your PC may not be able run those games in 10 years due to software and hardware conflicts with those old games. Also your PC can run them now why upgrade to play 10 year old games. I know you didn't say you'd upgrade but you will be if you are sticking with your PC. Don't pretend you can see the future.

With regards to the resolution, I have a 2405FPW and I now wish I hadn't bought it. Why? Well the fact is for games too look good on it I have to play at the native res (1920x1200) which means that I'll need to upgrade my PC more often which is a waste. HDTV's look fantastic, and from the trailers I've seen running at 1280x720 for games the games will also look great. The resolution argument isn't as valid now with HDTVs.

Well if my PC can run it well I'm getting it for that if not I'll get the 360 version.

I can't help the feeling that people who defend the PCs the way they do (or defend any format without even accepting valid counter arguments) are rather immature, or they are just smarting that the PC they spent so much money on will not be that great with handling the newest PC games. I personally am reaching the state now where I care less about upgrading my PC as the time when there would be lots of awesome new games between upgrades has passed. Also the genre which I get the most out of (RPGs) has seemingly dried up on the PC, theres little selection in that way, FPSs are done really now and while I play WoW occasionally, I don't think MMORPGs will ever replace true RPGs.

I know what you mean.

That reminds me of another good point about PCs, it's that development costs are quite low. Although that means crappier games more often.

Yeah, PCs, unless you fork out about $2000, are shit for the latest in games.

My point was that in 2010, I can play most of the games that are coming out now with minimal loading times. People still play Starcraft and Diablo II.

Here's some stuff that can't be done with a PC well: Beat 'em ups, Arcade (1942 etc), Platformer (a la Mario), FF-type RPGs, Racing and Sports.

Then there's the stuff that can't be done well on consoles: RPGs (BG, D2), any mod-based game (NWN), FPS (not fun to use controller when used to mouse, as mouse is so much faster), Flying, RTS, and TBS.

Now I prefer the type of games on PC, so I just get a top-of-the range PC every 3/4 years for about $800 (They're SO much cheaper when you build your own) and it'll run most of the future games at top level untill the 3rd year, at which point I think about upgrading again.

Fairly cheap as the HD, CD, DVD, Monitor, box, Memory, MoBo, mouse and keyboard carry over. So that's just a new graphics card, processor and maybe some more memory.

[bapenguin]

I will take the modding over whatever it is that is supposed to be better about the console version. What exactly did he say was better? That on the console you will not need to optimize it for the best performance? As far as it looking better on the 360. If it does, who cares? Like I said, the mods are much more important to me than the looks. No way in hell it is going to look that much better on the 360 any way.

Hmm..that sounds EXACTLY what i said in my comment. :)

[VoodooKarma]

It's like every Xbox 360 post ends up a scene from Michael Jackson "Beat It" where PC gamers and Console gamers dance around with switch blades. That video looked silly didn't it. These post are getting that way.

Yeah I know I'm dancing with the console coat, sheesh. Continue dancing...

I think 'Bad' would be the better video comparison but more importantly....which side gets Michael Jackason and which side gets Wesley Snipes?

[earthworm48]

The way things are going though....

This is my problem now with the PC. Simply: Things don't carry over anymore.

New CPU sockets, new Ram sockets, new HDD sockets, new GFX card sockets, new monitor features that "become the norm to go for", new displayports on the monitors (ok at the moment with adaptors)

All this new stuff means that you need to replace more and more of it everytime. The new sockets/formats annoy me as they just make it cost more to upgrade than it already does. People always go "You can do so much more on your PC over consoles" < this statement is true. However do you have to upgrade your PC for anything other than games? I'd say no. If you have to for some work thing then its likely to be for some specialized field which means that the Pc you would be using wouldn't be designed to be that great for games,e.g. like maybe large monitors for professional picture/video editing or something, not for playing games on.

One other thing is this: in recent years GFX card prices have risen, of course. It used to be though that you could always still not spend too much and get what you wanted. Now the cheaper cards perform a lot worse on the new games than they would previously, I remember recently here on EvAv someone said they only spent $250 on GFX cards at any time, that was their budget and 2 years after their last card they are only seeing like 30FPS increases. I think this is more because you are getting less for your money than you used too.

[Morratut]

Does anyone else's eyes freak out after playing games on a TV for long? After about 10 minutes, my eyes start to water like crazy and I have to stop. I always wondered if it is the refresh rate that causes me problems.

Oh, and responding to an earlier post about 19" monitors -- resolution does matter A LOT even on smaller screens (I personally game on a 17" monitor). 1600x1200 looks a lot better than 640x480 regardless of the screen size.

It was me ZipR regarding resolution. Of course 1600x1200 looks a lot better than 640x480. Thats obvious :rolleyes:

Earthworm48 hit the head right on the money. Not a lot of difference between 1280x1024 and 1600x1200 on normal monitors.

LOL Xerxes i know what you mean regarding your 'switchblade' comment.

We've all being here before. I hope the PC and the Xbox 360 version is great. Big hugs to everyone on EvilAvatar.

/puts switchblade down.

[Xerxes]

OK what morrowind mods where sooooo must have... O_o

[Murmillo]

You know, its funny here. You all drool over mods, but lets take a realistic look at mods here. For the most part, it takes a good year maybe even two years before any GOOD mods come out. Sure one or two from a well respected long time TES nerd.. most IMO the first 2 years of mods SUCK.
And also, the same lot of you all are saying that yea the 360 might have better graphics NOW, until the next year or two when the next gen of video cards come out...

So, I'm thinking. Buy the 360 version now, where you can play in with out any worries, and then after a few years pass, PC patches come out, killer mods start to get refined, computer hardware passes the 360, get Oblivion cheap for the PC.

Best of both worlds. Win Win!

[TrackZero]

I reckon on the PC version in the intro you should get a 'Xbox360, the way its meant to be played' animation ;)

/Morratut ducks

LMFAO. They should do that, it'd be amusing.

[Atorak]

Guys, guys, guys....I think you are all missing the point. Who honestly cares if it runs better on one system or the other! Choose your poison, and move on with life!

Sure, I'm still torn between the XBox 360 and the PC version. But what's more important than the platform I choose to play the game on, is the fact that this game will actually be in my hands in a few months!

Fine, you hate consoles. You have a bumper sticker on the back of your Volkswagon that says "PC Gaming 4 Life". You once punched a kid in the kidneys for dissing your Thermaltake CPU fan. Cool, buy the PC version.

Oh, you have a huge 60" DLP and a kicking sound system? You have faith in Microsoft / Bethesda's commitment to bring cool mods to the XBox 360 marketplace? You enjoy fragging newbs with your controller in Halo 2 over your mouse and keyboard in Battlefield 2? Cool, buy the X360 version.

Hell, please keep fighting over this stuff, I find it hilarious, and it makes for great reading at work! But the fact that console lovers can pick up this (hopefully) fantastic game on their platform, and PC lovers can pick it up on their platform, it should make everyone happy to be gamers...period.

[if76]

Then there is the whole question of do you want to be able to play the game out of the box on Xbox 360 or do you want to try to make it work if you don't have a bleeding edge PC?

This isn't 1991. You don't have to choose your IRQ and DMA, do sound tests or adjust your EMS memory. Installing a game may be somewhat time consuming but you benefit in the end by having faster load times.

I agree that it can be a hassle tinkering with your graphics settings to find the perfect balance between fidelity and framerate but a lot of games these days do some autoconfiguring for you and then it takes only about ten minutes. For a 70 hour game that aint bad.

All completely worth it to have superior controls, loading times, and customization.

[Murmillo]

Atorak. great post, too bad that type of talk is way over most peoples head over here. (I'll admit, I've done it too..)

But really, now that I think about it. We all know that Microsoft wanted to prop up PDZ, but look at everybodies reaction to PDZ "zzzZZZ... wha? did you say Halo3? .. No.. Fuck off!!"
At this point, Microsoft needs a buzz game to sell the x360 with, the only game that has major buzz to it is Oblivion. I ponder a little something like this happened recently:

Microsoft goes over to Bethesda and goes, "So *cough* Milk and polish the x360 version a little*cough*money falls out of pocket* and *cough*more money falls out* I think we get the idea. *cough*even more money* Excuse me, Have a nice day."

[goc_sin]

I'll believe it when we see it, as for now I bet it will run on both systems no problem.

[Xerxes]

Dude I think load times on computer games are just as bad. Although I don't have a top of the line computer. Not to mention we don't even know what load time are truly like on the xbox 360. And superior controls is something to question as well. Control can only come as opinoin. Customization however is fact. You probably won't make a killer mod but somebody out there just might.

Again, what was morrowind's killer mod. I have to see why modding is so pivotal.

[Morratut]

Wow Atorak i nearly shed a tear then :D

In a Junkion stylee..........All hail King Atorak!!!Atoooorraaak!!!

Bar weep granah weep nini bon!!!

Very true Murmillo. I'm gagging for a Xbox360 and i'm still wondering what my wonder game will be :confused: Fingers crossed PDZ will be it.If Halo3 would've been a release day title there would've been murder in the street on day 1.

[Xerxes]

Murmillo it aint like that all. Nice imagination though, check out mines.

I ponder something like,
Guy 1: Hey that PC version looks nice.
Guy 2: No that's the xbox360 version, the pc version kept crapping out. I sent Steve to the store with a $6000 so we can update the computer.
Guy 1: Sweeeeet.

Steve to the compusa clerk: What do you mean those part don't exist yet?!?!

[thecrazyd]

Dude I think load times on computer games are just as bad. Although I don't have a top of the line computer. Not to mention we don't even know what load time are truly like on the xbox 360. And superior controls is something to question as well. Control can only come as opinoin. Customization however is fact. You probably won't make a killer mod but somebody out there just might.

Again, what was morrowind's killer mod. I have to see why modding is so pivotal.
Load times are way faster on PCs. They do not have to stream data off of a disk as they have a hard drive to cache to (the XBox 360's HD is optional and I doubt very many companies will make use of it). The only reason you may consider PC times to be comprable is in games made for PC only that have way more textures to cache.

[earthworm48]

Load times on new games on PCs are terrible. They aren't better. I can of course load BG2 in less than 1 sec on my PC (specs earlier in thread) but the FEAR demo still has a pretty hefty wait.

[Morratut]

Yeah i'm not too impressed with load times of BF2 either.

[Atorak]

Wow Atorak i nearly shed a tear then :D

LOL! Hey, what can I say? I stumble onto a gem of a post every now and then. :D

I attribute my comments to drinking heavily at work.

[Xerxes]

I just slapped in another 512MB RAM stick in my computer just so i could stop going to "Lagforge"... Now Ironforge in World of Warcraft is managable. It use to take me minutes to get anything done there. Then going into instances, people would already be fighting when I finally loaded in myself. Sure it's all working now. But I am sure major upgrades, even building a brand new one, would be need to play anything at max settings and such.

[TacRod]

OK what morrowind mods where sooooo must have... O_o

Giants (and it's extras), for starters. Adventurers TC, the better bodies, better heads, Morrowind Comes Alive, The Lighting Mod, extended dungeons, rogues and ambushes, the vampire stuff... modded Morrowind is a vastly superior experience to the out of the box version. Much better graphics and better gameplay (both quantity- and quality-wise).

[51|RandoM]

eeeurgh. using controllers on a system that isn't designed for it? i feel sorry for you. unless the drivers have improved by 100s of times in the last 2 years this is just a total pain.

oh, and u wanna plug that headset in? go ahead, you'll disable your 5.1 surround sound system, though :D

I have no idea what you're talking about. But that is alright, cause neither do you. :-)

controllers work exactly the same. sound is exactly the same.

If you're talking about a headset for voice, big deal. They came out with this nifty device many decades ago, I believe they call it a microphone...

[51|RandoM]

Sorry dude... the amount of money you have to spend to do all this is the same as buying a 360. Also my PC wouldn't be able to use those higher resolutions anyway, and let's not even mention the way you would have to reconfigure a controller to work with all the keys of a PC game (I hope you are not suggesting using a wireless keyboard and mouse from your couch?)... what is the use?

I already have a tv. I already have a pc. I already have wireless controls for both. I even had spare cables laying around to run the pc into the a/v receiver.

I don't have to go out and spend money on these features, I already have them for other purposes.

You're cracking me up. You complain that you'd have to remap a controller to the pc keys, and that there are a lot more of them than the console version? WTF are you talking about? I can control the game just like the console version, with a controller. The pc games aren't more complex because they take more keys to control, LOL.

People need to realize that this isn't an either/or situation. It is possible to enjoy the best of both worlds.

An argument that assumes you have NOTHING and then decide you suddenly want to play Oblivion, and then chooses platform based upon cost seems to be a bit of a laugh, at least to me.

A highend pc is clearly the better platform for a game of this nature, if one's goal is to maximize the experience. I'll have the consoles, and I'll have a highend pc. Anything that comes out on the PC, I'll play on the PC, it just provide a better overall experience. Anything that only comes out on the console, I'll play on the console, because I have no choice.

Bottom line for me is that hardware costs are irrelevelant, because I'll already have all of the hardware I need.

[Dirty Harry]

OK what morrowind mods where sooooo must have... O_o
OKay ill tell you one i personally liked, the pack mule mod, that let me actively collect weapons to sell and inturn made me play the game differently when i had a travelling treasure chest stocked with health and spells. There are non important mods that add things such as a the cliff racer removal mod, that makes the game about 20 times better. I got so sick of being attacked every ten feet in the game. Secondly they have many many, diffrent player models aswell as faces. Aswell they have new content for the game world made up, new armor sets, new weapon sets, hell even knew classes and races with unique ability. I also forgot to mention that there is a hell of a lot of mods that change the game effects and honestly they make it quite nice. What i have modded on my game is the pack mule, lighting changes, swamp and marsh land mod that makes it real pretty, cliff racer mod, better bodies mod, this pack of faces for the nordies L:D, this mod that gives all the taverens music in the background so they arent as boring. And a few other but i havent touched the game inawhile.

[51|RandoM]

Ha, one more thought. On PC load times.

A. PC load times are just as bad as console load times.
B. On the other hand, a console may have a load time in 4 different spots of a level, where a PC will load once.

The PC is loading more data, which is why the times are just as bad, even though it is generally loading from a faster medium. But, since the PC generally has a much larger amount of system ram available, plus a viable virtual ram implementation, it can hold larger sets in memory---which means fewer loads.

This is actually one of the key arguments in the "dumbing down" complaint of pc vs. console. Take Undying, for example. They had to chop up the levels quite a bit to fit them in system ram on a console... and they kept that same division on the PC version, so PC users got saddled with load screens every 50 feet, which they're entirely unused to.

In BF2, it isn't actually load times you're looking at. What you're seeing it checksum validation and/or on the fly shader optimization. Fast processor and loading from a stripe and you can be first one one the map every time. If they ported the game to console---hahahahahah---levels would probably load fairly quickly, as you'd probably not have the full anti-cheat check each level, and you'd never have to optimize shaders, and the actual data being loaded would be significantly smaller.

BF2 is a good example of both the best and the worst PC gaming has to offer. You won't see anything with that level of detail on a console any time soon, including the upcoming generation. They just don't have enough system ram to accomodate that many models and textures at once.

[Zurik]

You guys do know Bethesda's track record with bugs in their games right? As in all of them are full of bugs? So unless you want to wait for the xbox 360 game of the year edition, I'd opt for the pc version. Not to mention modding was the best part of Morrowind. Its all a matter of preference.

[Dirty Harry]

To the pc/console agruement.


Lets just say i have a few pc game pads and a few good real good steering wheels and paddles and a special cabnit made with a seat and monitor to play games. What makes a console better again?, oh yeah the couch thing. Well hey, im pretty crazy but i bought this small tray for your lap for doing homework and i use it for the wireless keyboard and mouse when im not actually in the pc room. so again please just remind me what exactly is better about console again?



edit: noticed the grue spelling mistake and i thought

oh noess not teh gruee.

[H.Bogard]

Microsoft goes over to Bethesda and goes, "So *cough* Milk and polish the x360 version a little*cough*money falls out of pocket* and *cough*more money falls out* I think we get the idea. *cough*even more money* Excuse me, Have a nice day."


ROTFLMFAO!!!!!!! dude i just tumbled off my chair :D

anyway , if you can run this game on your pc by spending 399 bucks , then do so....otherwise get the xbox

but remember, the interview says the xbox 360 ver. will look AS GOOD AS the pc version, so lets say its running at 50fps on the 360 , you know damn well that by april 2006 there`ll be a video card costing 500 bucks out there that can run it twice as fast, no one can deny.

[baz]

I've got a HDTV, comfy sofa, and I'm getting a 360 on launch.... but I've also got a damn comfy office chair, Athlon64 3500+, 1 gig of ram, and a 7800GTX.

So I actually have a pretty even choice between the two systems, and I'm going to get the game on PC. Not because I think all games are better on a PC, but I think I will prefer this game on a PC. For me its a no brainer to get all car games, fighting games and sports games on consoles, and other types of games on the PC.

The modding/patching of Oblivion is the major reason that I'll be going PC on this thing.

Most peoples arguments are retarded, especially relating to the size of TVs versus monitors. I sit close to my 19in LCD, so its every bit as immersive as my big TV, I have a comfy office chair which is just as comfy as my bean bag that I play my console games on. Both of them have 5.1 sound.

Each system is perfectly valid and preferring one over the other doesn't make you inept and insane, people just need to fuck off a bit.

[AboveAvgCharles]

This is all personal preference, and the information presented in the article is being misconstrued. Consoles are a known quantity; the developer is going to know the exact capabilities and limitations of every X-Box 360 that their game is ever going to be played on (okay, I guess that's a bit of an oversimplification given that some will have hard drives, and others won't, but bear with me). The hardware and capabilities of a given person's PC carries infinite permutations, though. Every PC is different, and the game will run slightly differently on every PC it is played on.

I don't think Pete Hines is saying Oblivion is going to be better on the 360, I think he's just saying "look, I know the game is going to run this well on the 360. On your home PC, which could be comprised of any number of different configurations? Hell, I haven't the foggiest." And I mean, really, when asked to compare performance on the 360 version with the performance of the PC version, what else can he even say without outright lying and feeding hype?

[dead_parrot]

Is a toolkit for the xbox 360 completely out of the question, though? Admittedly the interface could be pretty awkward using a controller and not a mouse and keyboard, but with Live at least they have a viable distribution option. What would be really cool is if xbox users could download mods on their pc made with the toolkit and stick them on a usb stick, seeing as the xbox 360 has usb 2.0 ports, and get mods from the pc for their xbox version. Although I suspect that would be - if not impossible - at least too difficult to even consider, since code optimized for pc wouldn't work on xbox.

[AboveAvgCharles]

That would be awesome, though I don't see it happening. Technical difficulties aside, I don't think we're going to see any cooperation for a console-mod movement. The ridiculous Hot Coffee fiasco only became such a major deal because the content was also accessible on the console versions, which admittedly had a much larger distribution than the PC version of San Andreas. Developer's actually encouraging mod-ability on consoles can only lead to politicial ramifications, no doubt spearheaded by Jack Thompson's Ego. It's too bad, too.

[dead_parrot]

Yeah, I just read the faq (probably should have read it before I posted lol) which says that there will be no construction set for the xbox 360. Like I said, though, it would probably be harder to use on the console anyway, and any serious mod developers will opt for the pc version.

[Bushido]

You must buy an Xbox360, forget what you think you know about technology. The Xbox was given to us by an advanced alien race, clearly making it superior to any PC.

[Liquidize105]

If it doesn't run on my p1.8 Radeon9800pro, I'm screwed.

Make it work Bethesda!

[Stryfe01]

I believe as Microsoft's launch partner, he couldn't have said otherwise.

Damn. Even when a developer says to get the console version ppl cry foul. Clearly he said what he thought. I didn't seen anything wrong in that. It would be suicide for Bethseda to isolate their PC community. Those are the guys that made them popular first. So take it for what it is. His opinion on what he'd rather do. HE didn't say, "Betheseda says buy the 360 version over the PC."

[Rangoth]

Fools! The C-64 will soon dominate all!

[Draft]

If it doesn't run on my p1.8 Radeon9800pro, I'm screwed.

Make it work Bethesda!Hahaha, prepare to enjoy the superiority of the PC version at 640x480.

[goc_sin]

I just noticed the price over at EB.com, the x-box360 is $59.99 and the PC is only $49.99. It sucks for the Console people have to pay $10 bucks more than the PC guys. I guess they are paying for it to look as good as it can possibly look. This may be a factor in deciding which version to buy for some. I just hope we don't see those kind of prices jump over to the PC market.

[Achilles]

To all the PC folks who say that Bethesda is being lazy in not making it look as good on PC: How does your PC stack up to a 3 dual threaded 3.2Ghz core processor with 10 Megs of L2 cache and a graphics card more powerful than two of the most powerful on the market running in SLI? Of course it’s going to look better on 360. Unless all you care about is resolution, but even then, after a certain point all a higher res does is give you less aliasing, which can be solved by anti-aliasing anyway.

[Rangoth]

Wait for the "PC r00lz geniuses Achilles" ;)

[Pumped'Up]

obviously, the 360 will have the superior version...i'm a huge PC gamer, but the 360 specs blow away any PC rig today. nuff said.

[baz]

To all the PC folks who say that Bethesda is being lazy in not making it look as good on PC: How does your PC stack up to a 3 dual threaded 3.2Ghz core processor with 10 Megs of L2 cache and a graphics card more powerful than two of the most powerful on the market running in SLI? Of course it’s going to look better on 360. Unless all you care about is resolution, but even then, after a certain point all a higher res does is give you less aliasing, which can be solved by anti-aliasing anyway.

If you're going to set up straw men, of course you'll be able to pummle the shit out of them. I looked through this thread and couldn't find anyone saying that Bethseda was being lazy. Also, the CPU's only have 1 Meg of L2 cache.

I would say the game is going to look damn near identical on an xbox360 and whatever is considered a high end PC when oblivion is released. Morrowind kicked the crap out of my first system as well... I expect oblivion to tax it pretty similarly.

[Achilles]

If you're going to set up straw men, of course you'll be able to pummle the shit out of them. I looked through this thread and couldn't find anyone saying that Bethseda was being lazy. Also, the CPU's only have 1 Meg of L2 cache.Well Ritsudo said this:
“Even the 360 is still limited to low resolution, even with an HD-TV. The PC version will look better on a new machine, the same as every other game.”
Which claimed the PC will look better unless I’m reading it wrong.

Or 51|Random who was claiming what I was talking about:
“Just scratch them off your list as people who have the ability to exploit advances in pc hardware, as people who can code a game to run at multiple levels of performance, as people who give a shit about the community after the game is sold.”

I get the mod/ patch argument against the 360 version. The Elder Scrolls games have been traditionally really bugy and on the PC you can get that patch day one, but on the 360 one you’ll have to wait a month for it to go through certification, if the patch corrupts your save games you might as well have waited a month to buy it. But the graphics argument, or the ‘dumbed down for console’ arguments are bunk as far as I’m concerned.

[baz]

But the graphics argument, or the ‘dumbed down for console’ arguments are bunk as far as I’m concerned.

Yeah, I agree with you about this. Both versions will be sweet, I'll be going for the PC version, but that doesn't mean I'll be slashing you tires if you go for the x360 version :D

[Achilles]

Yeah, I agree with you about this. Both versions will be sweet, I'll be going for the PC version, but that doesn't mean I'll be slashing you tires if you go for the x360 version :DAh and you were right about the L2 cache, I was thinking the 10 MB of embedded DRAM on the video card processor. :)

Both versions of Oblivion will be sweet. As someone who did break out a hex editor and re-do the armor and character skins for Morrowind I can appriciate the desire to mod. I haven't seen anything about mods being available through marketplace which is bothersome, but I haven't been reading every interview about it either.

[51|RandoM]

obviously, the 360 will have the superior version...i'm a huge PC gamer, but the 360 specs blow away any PC rig today. nuff said.

You need to read the specs again. They don't blow away any PC rig today. The probably blow your pc away, but don't assume everybody has your config.

My PC vs. xbox360

cpu [faster, MUCH FASTER, and multipurpose at that]
memory [more, and of a higher bandwidth]
video card [somewhat slower, but has same feature set, now that we're talking directx everywhere, courtesy of microsoft. By the time 360 is out, I'll have a pc video card that betters it. That is how it always works, if you stay at the front of video hardware]
physical storage [148 gig of 10k rpm disk, 300 gig of 7200rpm disk on my pc. I think my pc takes this one]
network [dual gigabit, 802.11g on my pc, looks like pc wins again]

...oh, and my pc runs photoshop, office, itunes, nero burning rom, etc.

When xbox360 is released, it will be better than my personal computer in TWO areas: COST, and PORTABILITY. Cost isn't an issue for me, I have to have a PC anyways, and can write it off, lol. For portability, I have an SFF rig and a laptop.

That is just me, though, there are plenty of old personal computers out there.

People might get the idea that I'm anti-console---I'm not. I end up buying consoles in every generation, going all the way back to sears televideo, heh. I just find it annoying when people try to say that consoles can provide anything that a PC can't.

It just isn't true, other than the software itself.

[earthworm48]

You can't compare PC specs straight to console specs like that. Also my 6 year old PC can run those programs. Wow.

The CPU and mem in consoles are higer performance than things you can currently get for desktop PCs.

The gfx chips are currently slightly ahead (due to the architecture of the chip) and will be until next year not by the time the 360 is out. Also how much will the new card cost you? Between $400 - $650 in the US?

The console doesn't need great networking abilities though does it really. Come on. It still has 1 gigabit ethernet (if I remember correctly) and there is wireless (but you need that adaptor which isn't optimal but my router which is essentially an accessory on my PC cost me £120, twice the 360's adaptor).

The fact that you are comparing spec numbers against actual performance is just stupid, and shows that you probably don'tt really fully understand everything in your PC. If you have an Intel thats higher clocked that the powerPC chip, then your PC has poor performance per clock and if you have an AMD chip (and since its multicore according to your post (oh yeah wtf is "multipurpose") you have spent silly amounts on the latest CPUs, when I'd have waited for next year where dual core will be cheaper and new architectures will begin to arrive) then your AMD chip is only clocked around 2Ghz, but has a great performance for clock ratio.

[defiant]

To all the PC folks who say that Bethesda is being lazy in not making it look as good on PC: How does your PC stack up to a 3 dual threaded 3.2Ghz core processor with 10 Megs of L2 cache and a graphics card more powerful than two of the most powerful on the market running in SLI? Of course it’s going to look better on 360. Unless all you care about is resolution, but even then, after a certain point all a higher res does is give you less aliasing, which can be solved by anti-aliasing anyway.

Wow...just wow, do you work for *** Xbox PR department?

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/cpu/xbox360-2.ars/1
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050629-5054.html
http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.aspx?i=24696
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2005/08/09/gabe_newell_dual_core/

Heres a nice quote from the arstechnica article which sums up the position nicely.

Rumors and some game developer comments (on the record and off the record) have Xenon's performance on branch-intensive game control, AI, and physics code as ranging from mediocre to downright bad. Xenon will be a streaming media monster, but the parts of the game engine that have to do with making the game fun to play (and not just pretty to look at) are probably going to suffer. Even if the PPE's branch prediction is significantly better than I think it is, the relatively meager 1MB L2 cache that the game control, AI, and physics code will have to share with procedural synthesis and other graphics code will ensure that programmers have a hard time getting good performance out of non-graphics parts of the game.

Furthermore, the Xenon may be capable of running six threads at once, but the three types of branch-intensive code listed above are not as amenable to high levels of thread-level parallelization as graphics code. On the other hand, these types of code do benefit greatly from out-of-order execution, which Xenon lacks completely, a decent amount of execution core width, which Xenon also lacks; branch prediction hardware, which Xenon is probably short on; and large caches, which Xenon is definitely short on. The end result is a recipe for a console that provides developers with a wealth of graphics resources but that asks them to do more with less on the non-graphical side of gaming.

[Achilles]

Wow...just wow, do you work for *** Xbox PR department?No, but I do make games for a living and I know quite a few people working on 360 games. It's not as easy to get the performance out of a 360 as it would be for a PC, but it is more powerful. Lots of developers are having a hard time making the transition and some blame the hardware. (Love the *** by the way, ah PC fans)cpu [faster, MUCH FASTER, and multipurpose at that]
memory [more, and of a higher bandwidth]Got numbers for either of those? Because I really don't believe that you have a processor that's better than a 3 core 3.2 GHz chip. The 360's memory is 700Mhz GDDR3 RAM, do you have 512 of it that can be read from by both the CPU and GPU? I've got no doubt that you have more memory. Consoles have other advantages which make up for the lack of RAM. For example Halo 2 was running on 64 Megs of RAM.

[Xerxes]

OOOOK...
So we have Gabe Newell saying multithreads is the future that isn't now... And console are shitty... To some extent... Which doesn't even sound like he got a dev kit and looked at anything...

Then John Carmack applauds the Xbox360 at quakecon saying it's easier than he thought it would be and it's designed where it has a thin API layer so he can talk directly to the Hardware... Oh and he's going to be working on that for a while cause that's the console he's steering his games...

O_o Carmack or Newell

[Rangoth]

Carmack everytime. No Question.

[earthworm48]

Newell has come across like a bit of a fool recently.

Recently in EDGE Dev's were asked about their next gen thoughts and he was there and he was saying that the consoles weren't helping developers make newer greater games with things like multicore CPUs (as if the PC wasn't going this way the way he said it) and then he said "if Microsoft or Intel gave even a half hearted effort to improve the PC as a living room entertainment client, it could really be a challenge for the proprietary games machines" well I guess Windows Media Center never happened then.

Multicore may be harder Gabe but that isn't going to stop the chip companies from going that way. From the sounds of Intel's IDF, adding more cores is going to be the big performance push over the next few years.

He was also moaning about them being limited by TVs and ignoring internet or connectiveness (sp) as a driver for innovation, which are both fait I believe to some begree but Xbox live and marketplace along with HDTVs are a step in the right direction at least. Personally I believe that TVs aren't much of a limiting factor now we are reaching 720p and 1080p.

[MrMeatshake]

Recently in EDGE Dev's were asked about...

mmm, EDGE.

gone downhill a bit recently, though, hasn't it?

[Xerxes]

lol.. You say Carmack but i bet you were thinking half life 2...

[Rangoth]

Nope, not thinking Half-Life 2. I'll hand it to Valve, Half-Life was a killer fucking game. Half-Life 2? It was a good game but not *the* experience the first was if that makes sense.

[earthworm48]

I'll tell you what, the textures in HL2 even at full were so ugly they made me feel ill.

EDGE wasn't as good after they changed the look but I started buying it again since the E3 coverage and its been better, a month ago it had an interview with Ron Gilbert who was talking about the new game he wants to make.

PC Gamer UK since their change of look though...... :(

[Rangoth]

It feels good knowing I am not the only person on the planet who failed to have the earth move for them with Half-Life 2.

[earthworm48]

Oneof the things I hated the most was the "emotions", that were supposed to be so great, "OH NOES Gordn my da has been takn!!11" *huge frowny face* and "Shes actually teh badz0r5" *crappy angry face*

Bah. Also Valve have made 1 awesome game and 1 ok game in 9 years and everyone, including themselves seems, to love them waaaaay too much.

[Xerxes]

So if we believe in the Carmack over the Newell... We believe more in the idea that Xbox 360 is not as hard as the other guy makes multicore programming out to be... I mean MS keeps boasting how they are trying to make it easy for the developers to get in there and crank out some good games...

Or was Carmack just bought off... As the Simpsons indicated, buying someone out isn't about giving people big bag of money...

[Xerxes]

Oneof the things I hated the most was the "emotions", that were supposed to be so great, "OH NOES Gordn my da has been takn!!11" *huge frowny face* and "Shes actually teh badz0r5" *crappy angry face*



ROTFLMFAOUIH

So yeah... Umm that's just funny there... But I don't remember really wooting and shouting for Doom 3...

[earthworm48]

I didn't say Doom 3 did it any better but I don't really remember anyone going on about Doom 3's character vast array of emotions.

Quite frankly, every other dev just seems to have swallowed that multicore pill, only gabe has kicked up a big fuss about it really.

[H.Bogard]

Bah. Also Valve have made 1 awesome game and 1 ok game in 9 years and everyone, including themselves seems, to love them waaaaay too much.

OMG HALO 2 IS TEH ROXX0RZ!

Seriously...Half Life 2 has accomplished more than any other game at once....and we`re so spoiled we dont even appreciate it.

[Xerxes]

It accomplished what again?

[Rangoth]

It managed to make everyone at Valve once again rich bastards ;)

[earthworm48]

Urrrmmm no it hasn't really accomplished anything, it only contains a slighlty advanced version of the Havok physics engine.

I didn't say anything about Halo 2 did I. It wasn't as fun as HL2 but HL2 wasn't that much fun, when compared to lots of other games. I still think I got more enjoyment out of Far Cry over D3, H2 or HL2.

I hate the way people go on about the ridiculous B movie plot, that isn't even really told to you. I like the fact that you have to catch sections yourself (but there sin't as much there as people think, theres a lot of fans looking too deep into things the way they do with Halo 2), but I'm still waiting for the plots like that of SS1 to come back. That was not only an awesome plot but it was magnificently told. I was running around inside what was essentially my enemy, and it was a damn sight more deadly than me. SS2 had that great link between 1 and 2 for the origin of the many but overally the plot was weaker (Game mechanics stronger though). Still a great game though and again the storytelling was pretty spectacular (SPOILER: Like when you enter the room to see the doctor's dead body and the room opens revealing shodan. You knew she was in the game already she was on the box, but it was great how she was revealed).

I think I've said it before but I'll say it again, over the past 12 odd years since I started PC gaming, I have had so many great games to play I've always upgraded my PCs. However it seems to be getting even more costly as of late (X-Fis, Physics cards, more expensive graphics, more expensive DC CPUs) and while there are apparently great games coming for it (Woooo Bioshock!! Wooooo Quake Wars!!! (I just hope there aren't a load of online fucktards)) if things like oblivion won't run well on the Pc I have now, which is damn powerful as I got it at the end of last year and upgraded to a 7800GTX (so I doubt it won't run well but we'll see), then I'm going to have to give it up for money/value reasons.

[Xerxes]

Ok... Let's throw Tim Sweeney into this array of who's right.

I mean the Unreal3 engine is being ported to all three systems. We've seen gears of war. Obilivion was ported(i'm pretty sure the pc game came first) to xbox 360... Multicore systems aren't as hard as it's being made out to be. The articles i have read say the three processors help further push the beauty you get on screen leaving the dev's to work harder on the other stuff like ai and physics. MS makes "rumored" good dev kits to help take out some of the guess work.

Too bad xbox360 doesn't support 1080p hdtvs but even on 720p or 1080i you should still be getting some nice looking visuals. And with programming for a console, they top it off without wearing about dumming it down for lesser hardware.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Ok... Let's throw Tim Sweeney into this array of who's right.

I mean the Unreal3 engine is being ported to all three systems. We've seen gears of war. Obilivion was ported(i'm pretty sure the pc game came first) to xbox 360... Multicore systems aren't as hard as it's being made out to be. The articles i have read say the three processors help further push the beauty you get on screen leaving the dev's to work harder on the other stuff like ai and physics. MS makes "rumored" good dev kits to help take out some of the guess work.

Too bad xbox360 doesn't support 1080p hdtvs but even on 720p or 1080i you should still be getting some nice looking visuals. And with programming for a console, they top it off without wearing about dumming it down for lesser hardware.

I thought the human eye couldn't even determine the difference between 720p and 1080i? At some point, it seems like it is technology for technology's sake.

[Xerxes]

Twigs... True, but I am kinda thinking 1080p would seem even shaper than the 720p/1080i. I said them together because they both look they same. And let the pc gamers tell it, it's not technology for technology sake, monitors resolution r0X0rs... O_o

[MrMeatshake]

I thought the human eye couldn't even determine the difference between 720p and 1080i? At some point, it seems like it is technology for technology's sake.

uh? but 1080 has more pixels? so it'd look better on a bigger screen?

[H.Bogard]

Urrrmmm no it hasn't really accomplished anything, it only contains a slighlty advanced version of the Havok physics engine.


TRIVIA - Name 5 games that let you play around with realistic physics

Note : atleast one should be on a console.

[Xerxes]

H. Bogard I never played it. Does it use that crappy rag doll effects stuff?