Live Chat with J Allard

[bapenguin]

Major Nelson (http://www.majornelson.com/) is hosting a Live chat with J Allard today at 12PM PT. For the past couple of days, I have been forwarding mail to J regarding some of the concerns the community has had with the recent announcements. Meanwhile J has been reading many of the online forums himself. Based on the some of the posts over the past few days, it’s clear there are still some questions that need to be answered (and some misinformation that needs to be cleared up.) J came to me and asked if I could help set up a direct dialogue with you, so we can get your feedback and answer your questions firsthand. Tomorrow (Sunday) you’ll have your chance.

Update:The transcript from the chat can be read here (http://www.filerush.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=11332#11332&sid=0ac794163d5ca566af02a460955ad68f) at FileRush. (http://www.filerush.com/)

Cool...wish I could be there but I'll be on the golf course. Hopefully he actually ANSWERS the questions instead of giving a sales pitch.

[makkura]

this oughta be interesting...

i hope there will be a transcript because i'm working today and can't attend :mad:

[Tricky Thumb]

I'm already in the chat room... er, because I'm bored.

Well, that and because tabs are fun.

[Murmillo]

If there was one question I could ask him (I can't make the chat) would be:

Since the harddrive is now going to be "optional", and looking at the history of the PS2, 32x etc.etc; WHAT incentives are you [Microsoft] going to make sure that developers use it and continue to want to use it, i.e. downloaded content from live and not let it go to waste because maybe half of the "casual" gaming community won't need or ever use a harddrive. And to also avoid the circle of: "Not enough people have a harddrive so this game isn't going to use it either. - I don't need to buy a harddrive because there are no games that use it."

[NACIONAL]

the chat is filled with morons...... not that i wasn't expecting that.

[Vale]

I won't be making it to the chat because I may not be able to contain my complete and utter disgust over this. If you want to charge $400 for your system then fine, do it. But don't try to feign generosity by offering what amounts to a useless version of your product.

Oh, and I'll also be missing it because I need to snag 3 Nintendo DS's at the new price today (a family of 4 who all play video game gets damned expensive some times ^_^).

[EvilBob46]

I looged in, there is a chat box, but nothing is happening.

Connecting to chat service...
connected.
Chat Topic: Open Peer-to-Peer Technical Chat in Progress


EDIT: Chat works best with Internet Explorer. Figures.

EDIT2: That is...seriously the dumbest chat room I've ever visited. The amount of stupidity is mind boggling and it lags like a wet bitch. J Allard is going to get torn apart unless the moderator oversees every post before it gets posted.

[Commissar Rob]

Hmm, I'd be really, really surprised if there isn't some sort of control over the whole thing. I mean, what sort of goon would expose himself to the full, unregulated stupidity of the internet fanboy community?

Should be interesting never the less. Hey Tricky, would you mind giving us some updates as you see them?

EDIT: Ugh, can't get in. But the post by Major Nelson says he'll be filtering the questions.

EDIT AGAIN: Ugh, I got in. I feel stupider having been in there. Good luck, Mr. Allard. You're going to need it.

[NACIONAL]

Thank god there is an ignore button there.....

I can't possibly know how the hell this is supposed to work with so many stupid fanboys.

[Oversized Landmass]

The chat room is full goddamn it, can someone ask about the australian launch date?

[StGeorge]

Another thing people forget about is that many people (myself included) said that backwards compatibility would be achieved only by recompilation of the original game executables. Apparently, it is now revealed, these executables are included on the XB360 hard drive (which is why the Core won't support backwards compatability and which is why only "certain" games are supported). If it was just emulation, then wouldn't it be part of the hardware ROM or wherever they are keeping the XB360 operating system (obviously not the hard drive)? If it was just emulation, wouldn't they just let you try every game under emulation and only guarantee the ones they fully tested with instead of blocking most games from running?

[A-Team]

The chat room is not full. If you're trying to use a browser other than IE6/IE7, you might not be able to connect all the way.

Try loading the chatroom up in IE.

[Kefkataran]

Interesting. I wouldn't mind an update later on what is actually said.

[A-Team]

Interesting. I wouldn't mind an update later on what is actually said.
I'll have a transcript up from the chat if I'm able to stay in the room.

[vanlandw]

thanks a-team for doing that..i will be checking back later tonight to see if this guy unveiled any interesting information

[A-Team]

thanks a-team for doing that..i will be checking back later tonight to see if this guy unveiled any interesting information
No problem. I'm just hoping that they take my question at this point because I I really want to know more about the Live Gold price and if there's going to be multiple pricing packages other than the 12-month pre-paid package.

[Paranoia]

Its either full or MS deliberately kicking out gamers who happens to disagreed with the $299 package.

[EvilBob46]

This chat isn't going anywhere yet. And what's with the insane lag/ram+cpu usage?


MICROSOFT-SONY: WHERE ARE THE ANSWERS!!

XkhalidX: thats a stupid question

Remij: lol

hop: Robot, you've asked that already.

Screaming: wow...steady on with the answers...i can't keep up!

topgun33: give mr. allard a chance to answer

blind527: who asked if we could stream videos from our pcs who cares

Masenko: STOP TYPING AND LAGGING IT!

bosstoned: does anybody see an answer already

BRYAN839UK: everyone stop a second please

Klonoa: Can anyone see the answers?!

[A-Team]

Yep, I got disconnected.

[StGeorge]

This was such an ill-conceived, poorly thought out event. The chat room is full of news reporters and not fans. They should have held this on IRC which is designed for large-scale chatting. Not this Microsoft crap which blocks Firefox users and can't handle a measly 1000 people.

[EvilBob46]

This was such an ill-conceived, poorly thought out event.

You can say that again. The hell is going on :confused:

[mkelehan]

I've left this thing open since the start. Lots of questions, no answers. Looking good, MS.

[earthworm48]

Well it seems Major Nelson lied again.

[jacktion]

lies kill angels!


(I was in the chat room and I only have this to say. If there was a way to send a lethal feedback voltage shock through all these people's keyboards the world would be a better and smarter place.)

[Dracula-X]

I'm glad I decided to not bother, I was anticipating something like this. Best to wait for a transcript or summary here on EA ;)

[A-Team]

Question 1: Can Microsoft guarantee that the HDD will be fully uitilised when present or are we going to see long load times with a slow DVD unit as standard from most developers.

Allard: Just like last generation utilization of things like xbox live and the hard drive will be up to the game designers and just like last time we expect game developers to be excited by this. we have been in clear communication for more than a year that some scenarios will include a disconnected hard drive and it has not slowed them down

Question 2: Will the Xbox 360 games use the hard drive for game saves and caching like the original Xbox did?

Allard: Absolutely. We think game designers have all kinds of innovative ideas that the hard drive will be used for. use of the hard drive is not limited to game scenarios. like Xbox 1 you will be able to do things like rip and store music and don't forget about live scenarios and all the downloadable content

Question 3: Why is the hard drive so highly priced? A 20GB hard drive now a days goes for about 20-30... why $100? I believe this will deter alot of sales..

Allard: the 20 gb hard drive is a 2.5 inch user servicable drive and is more expense than a pc "crack the box" drive. it's one of the reasons we pushed to create a compelling premium bundle.

Question 4: Why is the hard drive so highly priced? A 20GB hard drive now a days goes for about 20-30... why $100? I believe this will deter alot of sales..

Allard: one of the reasons that we designed a user removable hard drive is in direct response to the hard core gaming audience to make it easier to take game saves, game maps, soundtracks, etc. easily to their friends house or lan party. they also wanted the ability to upgrade to larger capacity drives. and if the drive is not present because someone in the house took it on the road, you still want to be able to use the console for movies, music or games.

Question 5: Will the loss of HDD mean that all games will be made without the HDD in mind, therefore effecting users of the premium pack?

Allard: Absolutely not. Consider this last generation where somewhere in the neighborhood of 20% of game consoles had hard drives attached. this did not deter game developers from utilizing the hard drive both for exclusive games and cross platform games on Xbox. this generation our first party team and our exclusive content developers are just as committed to using the hard drive and like we they demonstrated with this generation our third party cross platform developers are committed as well. Games like splinter cell, madden, and Tony Hawk all demonstrated unique capabilities in hard drive configured systems.

Question 6: Can we stream videos from our PCs?

Allard: Yes. If you have media center on those PCs, you will be able to stream standard and high definition video.

Question 7: Why even offer the core package, its seems quite useless

Allard: Great question! The thing to remember that while we designed a no compromises game system, a huge percentage of our customers are not like the folks in this chat room recognize that more than 75% of the folks on Xbox have not played Halo. by introducing the core system we are sending a signal to the market that we are committed to this part of the market just like with the Xbox 360 premium bundle that we are committed to you.

Question 8: Why even offer the core package, its seems quite useless

Allard: The significance of this message can not be understated. many of the publishing and retail partners want our commitment to grow the market. and as you have heard from us in our press conferences and such we are very committed to growing the market.

Question 9: Can you use your Xbox live gamertag for xbox live gold on the 360?

Allard: absolutely. we want to make sure you can preserve your identity, friends, and investment in xbox live moving forward with xbox 360 and of course you can keep gaming with your identity on xbox 1.

Question 10: Why not package the Xbox 360 with only the hard drive and a wireless controller for $349.99, so that you can have one SKU

Allard: Good question and one of the many combinations we looked at. With our research with hard core gamers, retailers, and the broader market, we felt like these two configurations were the right starting point. the great news is that the way we have designed the system in a modular way we can easily adjust these configurations over time.

Question 11: Will the cables in the $400 package work with my TV that uses A/V cables?

Allard: The A/V pack bundled with the premium pack will work with component and composite cables. this means it will pretty much work with all hd and sd sets out there. the other cool thing is that you can take that cable between high def and standard def tvs.

Question 12: What is your opinion on HD-DVD?

Allard: It's going to be interesting to see how and if a high def format for movies plays out. when we designed the the initial xbox many people asked if sacd or dvd audio would be the successor to the cd format for music. as everyone knows the real successor was mp3 and digital distribution with things like Napster, iPod and MSN music. while there is a lot of talk about this in the industry it will be interesting to see what the exact future of this is for movies. of course i think there will be a need for higher capacity optical media for storage applications. we prefer HD DVD to Blu-Ray in terms of the flexibility it offers to different applications as well as the infrastructure costs to the market.

Question 13: Will consumers be able to purchase and download songs or other media directly through the Live Marketplace?

Allard: Not at launch. It is something we would love to get your feedback on. Please give us your thoughts.

Question 14: Will developers utilize the hard drive when one is detected, or will most games be made without using it at all? Will the HD speed up load times?

Allard: Speeding up load times is one of the many things a hard drive can be used for but really it is up to the imagination of the developer. we have been talking with game developers for a while now to make sure that games will load efficiently without a hard drive present. in terms of load times, as a gamer i am super sensitive to how frustrating load times can be which is one of the reasons we put in a dual layer 12x DVD in the system to make sure gamers get great performance with or without a hard drive. one of the challenges with new optical formats when they first come out is the performance of the media which was a consideration when we decided what the optical format for Xbox 360 would be.

Question 15: Can a USB Memory been used by the Xbox 360??(I'm asking this because the 360 has USB ports)

Allard: At present our design for Xbox 360 uses the USB ports in a read-only capacity for playing music and viewing photos. if there are other applications that you guys think are interesting then please give us your feedback.

Question 16: Why doesn't Wi-Fi work out of the box?

Allard: We worked with game designers and talked to hard core gamers and asked them what their top priorities were and the bulk of our investment went into the silicon to the cpu and the gpu so we would have kick **** games. we had a fixed budget and could not do it all. in the end we had a budget and had to offer wifi as an option but we did decide to add "a" as a standard in addition to b and g. we are also compatible with existing devices already on the makret.

Question 17: Will the core system come with a memory card? if not, how can u save games?

Allard: No it does not come with a memory unit. gamers will need an mu or a hard drive to save games with which is consistent with the games industry for the last decade.

Question 18: Will the core system come with a memory card? if not, how can u save games?

Allard: I think it is really important to emphasize especially for the folks in this chat room that we did not design the core system around you guys. similar to the shuffle, the boxter, the 4:3 tv, the 1mpix camera, we designed the core system as a way to get folks to come into the family at a cheaper prices and decide if an how they scale the system. the great thing about our approach unlike these examples is that the core owner can upgrade the system and match the capabilities of the premium system when the time is right for them.

[Ailer]

looks to be the average marketing crap at the moment

[A-Team]

Continued:

Question 19: Will a completely black 360 be available?

Allard: Not currently in plan for launch but as you know we will have removable faceplates and I expect down the line we will get feedback that people want other colors and we will provide it

Question 20: This in from e-mail: Got a question about the $399 price point for Xbox 360. Feels steep.

Allard: I think that the capabilities we are offering with Xbox 360 are unmatched in the history of video gaming. It’s a great value. and the system that most of the folks in this chat room are going to prefer. i saw a posting earlier today where someone looked up the historical prices and capabilities of games systems. it was worth noting that the ps2 launched at $368 (in Japan) with no hard drive, no online service, no mu, no wireless, no voice, no network adapter, no remote, and only support for 2 controllers. that’s not reason we priced the system this way but it does provide a comparative frame of reference for what you are getting. when you consider you are getting the most powerful games system, best cd player, digital media player, movie player, etc. it’s a great value.

Question 21: Another one from mail: What about backward compatibility in the core system?

Allard: Because we didn’t abstract storage in the first generation Xbox back compat will require a hard drive. The good news is that the core system owners can upgrade if they decide to update at a later date.

Question 22: When can we expect an official release date to be announced?

Allard: I just want to thank the community for the enthusiasm and passion for Xbox since the beginning. conversations like this are super valuable and we would love to do this again.

In summary we tried to optimize launch around three critical audiences

[1] - the game developer - by offering them a no compromises platform with great hardware, tools and the leading online service with live.
[2]- the hard core gamer - by putting together a configuration with everything you would want at a compelling price.
[3] the entry level gamer - that wanted to get into next generation gaming and was excited by the media capabilities and wanted an entry level option

I know the multiple configuration strategy has introduced some confusion and concern with the hard core gamers in particular. Hopefully this has helped explain some of the thinking that went into it. if you - like me - want gaming to get bigger and want to see more creative games out there we need to grow the market.

Like the consumer electronics industry or the automotive industry having a family of products (we believe) will be good for the market.

At the end of the day, you guys make Xbox a success and we designed Xbox for you and dialogs like this are what have gone into the Xbox program to date and will continue to give life to Xbox for years to come.

Let's keep the dialog going. thanks for your time.

I should also mention that we know a lot of folks could not make it into the chat and will be interested in this dialog so know that we will be posting all of this onto majornelson.com and sorry for the lag (it's been hard for us too).

J

[Draft]

Q: J Allard (Moderator): Another one from mail: What about backward compatibility in the core system?

A: J Allard (Moderator): because we didn’t abstract storage in the first generation xbox back compat will require a hard drive. the good news is that the core system owners can upgrade if they deside to update at a later date.WOW, that is good news, you bald motherfucker.

[Zeal]

Talk about a Microsoft PR event. http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

[Ailer]

a BAD* microsoft PR event.

*by bad I of course mean poorly planned.

[earthworm48]

I would pay to see Draft say that to Allard in person. It would be great if it was after his response up there, but better if he just went up to him on the street a week later and says it too him.

[Zeal]

It's obvious at this point that Microsoft is becoming worried about the community reaction surrounding 360. Feedback has been overwhelmingly negative and they're attempting damage control.

[Zeal]

Complete waste of time.

^ uh that was in regards to the J. Allard transcript that was posted, but it was just removed for some reason.

Ah ok, edited in page 3.

[A-Team]

I'm cleaing the transcript up now, but that's the entire thing back on page 3.

Enjoy.... hah.

[EvilBob46]

Analysis of the chat conference:

http://www.gamersreports.com/index.php?sid=2661

[A-Team]

I had to split the transcript up into two posts, but you can find everything on Page 3. I edited a bunch of Allard's typos to help everyone out a bit.

[StGeorge]

This has all the trappings of a "planned spontaneous" event. It's probably been in the works for a month now to coincide with the pricing announcement, except they probably thought they would be praised for the ingenious scheme to launch at both $299 (really $339 to make it more than a paperweight) and $399. Idiots don't realize they just cost a big chunk of pre-orders and probably the whole damn generation to PS3.

[Commissar Rob]

So final analysis is what here? He doesn't seem to bring anything new to the table other than a slavish repetition of the "but we're giving you choice" crap they've been saying thus far.

[Zeal]

It's now clear to me why Microsoft chose to make the HD optional. Whether intentionally or not, Jay Allard pretty much gave away Microsoft's future plans in respect to the harddrive.

Early customers will be able to take advantage of future scenarios like bigger drives and network storage.

In other words, the harddrive will eventually be phased out and replaced with server-side storage. So essentially, your save games, music, downloadable content, etc. will be saved and accessed while on Live.

This, coupled with the fact that Peter Moore admitted the harddrive "might not be there" in future scenarios, makes Microsoft intentions clear.

I also didn't appreciate how Allard danced around questions of whether or not developers would want to fully utilize an optional HD. He basically said "They can do what they wan't with the harddrive, but it really isn't important. Games must work without the HD at all costs, even if it means decreased performance".

Stating that Microsoft is "giving gamers what they want" is just a cheap way of covering up the reality that they're more concerned with making money per system sold.

I absolutely hate this.

[EvilBob46]

In other words, the harddrive will eventually be phased out and replaced with server-side storage. So basically, your save games, music, downloadable content etc. will be saved and accessed while on Live.

Like Steam? I highly doubt this. The bandwidth costs for a service like this if it becomes popular would be insane.

[Chandler]

by network storage they probably meant the server in your own home, like, on a PC for instance.

[bean19]

What will decide HD support is the number of units sold. I'm not sure that this strategy won't up the number of HD's sold.

A $300 unit is more marketable to parents of children wanting a new system. If they release a less expensive HD that is only say $20 more than a memory card but offers more in the way of game performance and storage then this will be an easy buy for parents too. If having the lower cost system raises sales by a million units and half of those buyers add a HD to their system later on, then they X360 will still see the majority of consumers owning HDs, and a larger number of them.

If you are a developer and you are considering creating a game for a system that requires a HD, then you would probably be more likely to make that game if there is an install base of 3 million HD owners instead of 2.5 million, and you'd probably not have many problems writing off the 500K who do not own HD's if they could buy a HD for $50. (Yeah, I expect the cost of X360 HD's to plummet when the PS3 is about to ship).

[Opty]

Question 7: Why even offer the core package, its seems quite useless

Allard: Great question! The thing to remember that while we designed a no compromises game system, a huge percentage of our customers are not like the folks in this chat room recognize that more than 75% of the folks on Xbox have not played Halo. by introducing the core system we are sending a signal to the market that we are committed to this part of the market just like with the Xbox 360 premium bundle that we are committed to you.

Question 8: Why even offer the core package, its seems quite useless

Allard: The significance of this message can not be understated. many of the publishing and retail partners want our commitment to grow the market. and as you have heard from us in our press conferences and such we are very committed to growing the market.

...

Question 17: Will the core system come with a memory card? if not, how can u save games?

Allard: No it does not come with a memory unit. gamers will need an mu or a hard drive to save games with which is consistent with the games industry for the last decade.

Question 18: Will the core system come with a memory card? if not, how can u save games?

Allard: I think it is really important to emphasize especially for the folks in this chat room that we did not design the core system around you guys. similar to the shuffle, the boxter, the 4:3 tv, the 1mpix camera, we designed the core system as a way to get folks to come into the family at a cheaper prices and decide if an how they scale the system. the great thing about our approach unlike these examples is that the core owner can upgrade the system and match the capabilities of the premium system when the time is right for them.

Ahaha, Allard's a douche. Answering the same question twice in a row with different answers.

[fitbabits]

I made the mistake of logging in for the chat and I was appalled at the (lack of) intelligence shown by the majority of the people there. J. Allard and co. must have been holding their collective heads in their hands... It saddened me a great deal. So I went and saw Four Brothers.

[KDups]

Yeah I didn't really understand why some questions were asked twice, one right after the other. And why no answer to the last question about a release date? WTF is going on with these guys?

[Reanimated]

What a load of bullshit.

[Zeal]

by network storage they probably meant the server in your own home, like, on a PC for instance.

That isn't network storage. Network storage refers to server-side storage, like MMORPGs use.

[Chandler]

That isn't network storage. Network storage refers to server-side storage, like MMORPGs use.

no. matter of factly, theres no general meaning of what "network storage" is. So lets just agree to disagree.

[rein]

The question I want answered.. Will every game support HD saves? I mean, it would be stupid for it not to but sonys HD did not. That was probably the biggest short coming of the HD released by Sony. WTF will happen if all of a sudden everyone has to buy a mem card? Talk about the shit hitting the fan... ..I think the internet would explode.

[EvilBob46]

The question I want answered.. Will every game support HD saves? I mean, it would be stupid for it not to but sonys HD did not. That was probably the biggest short coming of the HD released by Sony. WTF will happen if all of a sudden everyone has to buy a mem card? Talk about the shit hitting the fan... ..I think the internet would explode.

Pretty sure you'll be able to save all games on the HD /wo a mem card.

[Everlost_MI]

I made the mistake of logging in for the chat and I was appalled at the (lack of) intelligence shown by the majority of the people there. J. Allard and co. must have been holding their collective heads in their hands... It saddened me a great deal. So I went and saw Four Brothers.

Thread hijack, how was Four Brothers?

[A-Team]

J stands for Jackass, and W stands for Worst public Q&A session in my life. Sure, I wasn't expecting a bunch of intelligent questions from non-press people, but why did a question like "WILL YOUR CABLE WORK WITH MY TV" get chosen over my Xbox Live question (and yes, the question was in caps but I edited it before posting it)?

What irritates me the post is that Allard came prepared with two questions he got via email; questions that we already knew the answers to. If that wasn't proof of some heavy damage control (as someone pointed out already), then feel free call me a dumbass and beat me down with a bat.

[Zeal]

Like Steam? I highly doubt this. The bandwidth costs for a service like this if it becomes popular would be insane.

The Xbox Live fee would be more than enough to pay for a broadband distribution system. It's already widely used.

I believe everything digital is going to this. Cutting out the middle-man saves time, money, production and costs.

[TrackZero]

Ahaha, Allard's a douche. Answering the same question twice in a row with different answers.

Dude, it's obvious whoever did the transcript fucked up and repeated the question twice. It happened more than once and his answers weren't applicable for the question the second time.

[mister_slim]

by network storage they probably meant the server in your own home, like, on a PC for instance.
Such as your Longhorn Media Center Edition PC. Maybe not Longhorn. Though I'm sure when it ships there will be many nifty features for the Xbox 720 to take advantage of.

To whoever complained, network storage can also refer to Local Area Network storage.

[bapenguin]

I really think people are reading into a lot of this stuff WAY to much. Relax.

[A-Team]

Dude, it's obvious whoever did the transcript fucked up and repeated the question twice. It happened more than once and his answers weren't applicable for the question the second time.
I think I know what happened. The reason the questions were repeated wasn't really due to a transcription error, but rather the fact that Allard was still answering the original question.

For example, the hard drive question... the first answer makes sense because he directly answers the question. The second answer you see seems to be a "let me explain why we did this" answer which builds on the original answer.

So, the transcript should MAYBE look like this:

Question 3: Why is the hard drive so highly priced? A 20GB hard drive now a days goes for about 20-30... why $100? I believe this will deter alot of sales..

Allard: The 20 gb hard drive is a 2.5 inch user servicable drive and is more expense than a pc "crack the box" drive. it's one of the reasons we pushed to create a compelling premium bundle.

One of the reasons that we designed a user removable hard drive is in direct response to the hard core gaming audience to make it easier to take game saves, game maps, soundtracks, etc. easily to their friends house or lan party. they also wanted the ability to upgrade to larger capacity drives. and if the drive is not present because someone in the house took it on the road, you still want to be able to use the console for movies, music or games.


If you guys think that looks right, I'll fix the three questions that were "answered twice".

[cjrizzo]

Well, this was pretty useless - no really good information if you've been on the horn with all the 360 news as of late. The questions and answers were pretty stock but no really new or interesting info.

[Kefkataran]

I really think people are reading into a lot of this stuff WAY to much. Relax.

I agree completely, but how come no one says that when Ken Katarugi (sp?) open his stupid mouth? Hell.

[mister_slim]

I agree completely, but how come no one says that when Ken Katarugi (sp?) open his stupid mouth? Hell.
It's because Allard has to be translated from Japanese into English, such that nitpicks are meaningless because it is impossible to tell exactly what he said.

[bapenguin]

I agree completely, but how come no one says that when Ken Katarugi (sp?) open his stupid mouth? Hell.

True.

I think it's more like this. Everyone is like: "Because the hard drive isn't mandatory no one is going to use it"

People say this like it's a known fact.

He's saying look, the glass isn't half empty. I think that's all. The bottom line is....WE DON'T KNOW. NO ONE DOES. F i'm tired......

[PantherModern]

Yeah, I'm with bapenguin. I'm all for some good MS bashing, but we really don't know how this is going to play out. I don't think it is a good idea to have two price points with such wide variances in hardware. However, if the XNA platform is so great, and MS has been planning this package deal for a while, there may be a possibility that there is simply a "hard drive present" operator in the system that allows developers to utilize HD when available and use system memory when not. It's unlikely, yes, but it is at least possible. I'm willing to give MS the benefit of the doubt for now, but they are certainly going to have to prove themselves to a lot of people in order to keep the faithful from switching over.

[Wonka]

"Question 5: Will the loss of HDD mean that all games will be made without the HDD in mind, therefore effecting users of the premium pack?

Allard: Absolutely not. Consider this last generation where somewhere in the neighborhood of 20% of game consoles had hard drives attached. this did not deter game developers from utilizing the hard drive both for exclusive games and cross platform games on Xbox. this generation our first party team and our exclusive content developers are just as committed to using the hard drive and like we they demonstrated with this generation our third party cross platform developers are committed as well. Games like splinter cell, madden, and Tony Hawk all demonstrated unique capabilities in hard drive configured systems. "

I think this raises an important point that goes largely undiscussed. Last time around A LOT of Xbox games used the HDD even though these games were cross platform releases. That means that even though only a minority of the consoles in the marketplace had HDD's they still took the time to make downloadable content and also caching code to use the drive. It was not mandatory that they do this, but they did it before with pretty low market penetration (for a cross platform release). I think that this really puts some perspective on the whole claim that the HDD will never ever be used now that its optional.

With as many uses as the HDD will have, I expect it will be a popular peripheral anyways. Also, to whoever that was who was worried about only being able to save to memory units: if the X360 is anything like the Xbox, then all games will automatically be able to use either a HDD or a memory unit to save games. If I am not mistaken, it's already a TCR to be able to save to an HDD. Hell, I would bet the filesystem sees that HDD as just a bigger memory unit anyhow. In other words, I would also be surprised if there is anything more than some simple dialog box code (to ask you where you want to put the save game) involved in using the HDD for saves.

[fitbabits]

Thread hijack, how was Four Brothers?

Pretty good, actually. Andre Benjamin has some talent - as does Markie Mark. There's also something to be said for the "ten-bob-swagger". It's awesome when done right, as it is here.

Without spoiling it for you (and those who haven't seen it), there is one character who could happily have been cut from the film and the story would have been unaffected.

Anyway, try and catch a matinee if you decide to go see it - cheap and less busy.

[Cyrano]

I like when Allard said they can release different bundles in the future. (I'm not being sarcastic; I actually like it.) I especially like that he didn't rule out a black color version. I'm not getting one at launch anyway, so I'll wait to see what packages Microsoft comes out with in the future.

[Murmillo]

This might be "Old News" but concerning the harddrive/memory. The developers really wanted more RAM, 512Mb instead of 256Mb. They still wanted a HD, but 512Mb of RAM was like 100x higher on the list then a HD as a must have.
Want to complain about a lack of a solid harddrive, bitch to all the developers...

I see that my question that I would have been hoping to ask wasn't. So far, it's still: "If developers want to use the HD good for them... "

[Zeal]

Do you know what? They could have thrown in 512 RAM AND the HD and still only priced the unit at $399. It would have covered the cost of both the RAM and HD, and all they'd have to do was cut out the accessories, such as the headset, remote, etc.

[Kefkataran]

It's because Allard has to be translated from Japanese into English, such that nitpicks are meaningless because it is impossible to tell exactly what he said.

Hahahahahahahaha. Well, my night is set.

I think it's more like this. Everyone is like: "Because the hard drive isn't mandatory no one is going to use it"

People say this like it's a known fact.

He's saying look, the glass isn't half empty. I think that's all. The bottom line is....WE DON'T KNOW. NO ONE DOES. F i'm tired......

Fair enough. I mean I agree with that. But I think the people being critical have some good points as well. And the same could be said of the Sony/PS3 stuff as well. We don't *know* that the PS3 won't be endless in power and girth, like Mr. Katarugi has said, right?

[Kagger]

Consider this last generation where somewhere in the neighborhood of 20% of game consoles had hard drives attached.

The Thing about that is...yes that figure is probably true...but an entire console (therefore an entire release on cross platform releases) still had it. It's a little misleading when you think about it

[bean19]

I agree completely, but how come no one says that when Ken Katarugi (sp?) open his stupid mouth? Hell.

Well Ken Kutaragi is funny with his stupidity.

This is just spin.

Also, I agree with bapenguin. . . responses are way more heated than this news should be creating.

[Babbster]

Do you know what? They could have thrown in 512 RAM AND the HD and still only priced the unit at $399. It would have covered the cost of both the RAM and HD, and all they'd have to do was cut out the accessories, such as the headset, remote, etc.

Well, considering that for $399 you do get the 512MB of RAM, the HD and the accessories such as the headset, remote, wireless controller and component/composite cables...What was your point again?

[Wonka]

Do you know what? They could have thrown in 512 RAM AND the HD and still only priced the unit at $399. It would have covered the cost of both the RAM and HD, and all they'd have to do was cut out the accessories, such as the headset, remote, etc.

Look Zeal, I don't want to provoke you because you seem like a very angry and possibly disturbed dude. But I have to question the wisdom of throwing out the headset. I think that if I had to choose between HDDs and headsets having deep market penetration, I know that I would choose headsets every single time. And this is not JUST for online gaming (although I think that is really important too). This last gen started to see some really intriguing experimentation with voice as a means of controlling the game (see the rainbow six games for examples where this actually worked), and so I think that a headset has far, far more to offer new forms of gameplay than an HDD ever could... Hell who needs buttons if you have voice commands? Of course this is all my opinion, and history has yet to be written on this matter. But I would submit this to you as one thing to consider. I know that your very, very, very, very angry, but I would just like to suggest that maybe (just maybe) MS's decisions will not be the end of the world after all? Maybe we should consider that there are things that we still don't know about how this will all play out? Maybe there are still variables out there that we cannot control for when predicting the future? Just my 2 cents.

[Achilles]

Will every game support HD saves?Yes, every game will support HDD saves. Every game will also have to support memory card saves; I'm looking at you Bioware and Team Ninja. And why no answer to the last question about a release date? WTF is going on with these guys?Because they’re not sure how long it’ll take them to make as many units as they’ll need for launch. It’ll be some time in November, some people (fan sites) are saying November 4th but I wouldn’t expect them to be ready by then, it’s going to be a huge multi-region launch keep in mind.

For those who say this is about money, yes it is, and it’s about a certain large group of people being completely unwilling to pay $400 for a system. They’ll buy an add-on like a memory card, but they will not pay more than $300. MS won’t make a profit or even break even on either type of system, they’ll just lose less money if you buy the $300 system and then upgrade, but really that system is for people who would never upgrade it anyway; people without broadband, without an HD TV, and people uninterested in anything involving the hard drive. It looks like people who are having the hardest time understanding this are those that had no interest in the 360, and were looking for a reason to throw rocks at it.

[bapenguin]

Fair enough. I mean I agree with that. But I think the people being critical have some good points as well. And the same could be said of the Sony/PS3 stuff as well. We don't *know* that the PS3 won't be endless in power and girth, like Mr. Katarugi has said, right?

Right...that's my point...the argument perfectly goes either way. There's damn good reason to be critical about this decision because it DOES introduce doubt. But at the same time...really nothing has changed.

[Kelegacy]

I really think people are reading into a lot of this stuff WAY to much. Relax.

Says the guy who spins for Microsoft.


I agree with Kefkataran; having a double standard for Microsoft and Sony isn't right. If you're tonguing some company's ass, okay, defend them in threads where they are being attacked. But don't jump into threads when a rival company commits virtually the same crazy bullshit and jab fingers at them, demonizing them, and laughing all the while.

[StGeorge]

Re: People who refuse to spend more than $299. Well those people, coming from an Xbox, will expect to be able to save games for $299. I am sure PS3 will have a way to save games for the base price. Without the ability to save games, it's nothing more than a paperweight. When they find out that there is really no option, and that you either pay $399 or you get screwed, is when things will get interesting. So you get A) Hardcore gamers who are cancelling left and right and B) Parents who go in on launch day, find out that the $299 is a screw job and then decide that little Jimmy will have to make do with his Xbox or PS2 for a little while longer (or just buy him the Revolution for $199 or $249). Microsoft seems intent on doing everything it can to lose this generation, so let them.

[doubtingthomas]

I am sure PS3 will have a way to save games for the base price.

Why? Because the PS1 and PS2 certainly weren't able to. You had to buy a memory card to save games.

[Murmillo]

yea, I remember when the PS1 and PS2 came out, I had to BUY MEMORY CARDS on top of the console. Wow people forget fast.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Yeah I didn't really understand why some questions were asked twice, one right after the other. And why no answer to the last question about a release date? WTF is going on with these guys?

Damnit, get out of my head!!
My thoughts exactly. At this point, they were supposed to have announced the pricing and the release date at the same time and they have not. The one thing that pissed me off more than anything about the original Xbox was the way games were overhyped and then pushed back about 5-6 times. They would tease you for months (in cases like Conker and Project Ego / Fable or Brute Force, years) before the game released. I want that trend to stop w/360. The fact that the release date for the frickin' system was supposed to have been announced with the system price irritates me. The fact that Allard completely ignored the question when asked directly really ticks me off.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Re: People who refuse to spend more than $299. Well those people, coming from an Xbox, will expect to be able to save games for $299. I am sure PS3 will have a way to save games for the base price. Without the ability to save games, it's nothing more than a paperweight. When they find out that there is really no option, and that you either pay $399 or you get screwed, is when things will get interesting. So you get A) Hardcore gamers who are cancelling left and right and B) Parents who go in on launch day, find out that the $299 is a screw job and then decide that little Jimmy will have to make do with his Xbox or PS2 for a little while longer (or just buy him the Revolution for $199 or $249). Microsoft seems intent on doing everything it can to lose this generation, so let them.

Well, that wasn't a compelling argument. PS3 never had an internal storage system for their games 'out of the box' and they already announced that they have cut the HD from their core system. They also haven't announced that they will have an internal storage system. I think they did announce that the memory cards that are currently available will not be compatible with the PS3.
Your scenario 'A' doesn't seem likely. When EB called and asked which version I wanted (I already had my pre-order in a longtime ago), I said the $399 version. I then asked if he had a lot of cancellations due to the price and he said no. In fact, he was surprised at the amount of $399 reserves he was getting. He said most people grumble about the price, but admit it is the better value.
Scenario B is absolutely not going to happen. Revolution is not due out this year so Timmy's parents aren't going to have a next-gen alternative for now. Unless Timmy's parents are gamers, they won't know the difference between their head and their anus when it comes to games. They may ask why the two separate prices, but when the sales guy says that the kid will get a bunch of extra 'accessories' in the $399 version, most will simply buy the $299 version (like they paid for the initial PS2 or Xbox).

Your argument 'A' seemed baseless and your argument 'B' seemed to go against parental nature. If Timmy tells his parents that the 360 will cost $299 and there is a $299 version available for his b-day/xmas, which version do you think they will buy?

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Do you know what? They could have thrown in 512 RAM AND the HD and still only priced the unit at $399. It would have covered the cost of both the RAM and HD, and all they'd have to do was cut out the accessories, such as the headset, remote, etc.

**Twigz wiggles his magic stick and shoots magic sprinkle sauce on Zeal's request**

BOOM!! The 360 now includes 512 Ram and the HD for $399, your wish is now granted!!! Plus all of the accesories you were willing to throw out, you get to keep!!

...what do you mean that the 512 Ram and HD was already included in the $399 price?!? What?!? That wasn't magic sprinkle sauce I was spewing?!?

Check your facts before crying that it doesn't do something.

[OUX]

Continued:

Allard: I think it is really important to emphasize especially for the folks in this chat room that we did not design the core system around you guys. similar to the shuffle, the boxter, the 4:3 tv, the 1mpix camera, we designed the core system as a way to get folks to come into the family at a cheaper prices and decide if an how they scale the system. the great thing about our approach unlike these examples is that the core owner can upgrade the system and match the capabilities of the premium system when the time is right for them.
........
Allard:At the end of the day, you guys make Xbox a success and we designed Xbox for you and dialogs like this are what have gone into the Xbox program to date and will continue to give life to Xbox for years to come.



J

WTF mate...

[Twigz'N'Berries]

It sounds like he is saying the $399 is for the videogame aficionados and the $299 version is for the light/casual gamer. No offense should be taken...unless you are a casual gamer.

[A-Team]

WTF mate...
1) Someone was typing for him
2) J wants you to go buy a Core System because he/they/Bill built the Xbox 360 for people just like you!