Oblivion WILL Utilize Hard Drive

[bapenguin]

When the XBox 360 Launch was announced with 2 models, one with a hard drive, one without, there was a huge outcry. Many claimed developers would never want to utilize the hard drive. The market would be split. Well Game Informer (http://www.gameinformer.com/News/Story/200508/N05.0817.1800.09580.htm) got a chance to talk to Todd Howard, producer at Bethesda, about Oblivion and the hard drive issues. "We've known since day one that there would be versions of the 360 without a hard drive, so Oblivion will still work on every 360," assures Todd Howard, executive producer at Bethesda. "That being said, Oblivion takes full advantage of the hard drive and uses it extensively, so we'd certainly recommend that everyone gets one."

So there you have it, many people were complaining Oblivion would suffer from the lack of hard drive, when in fact only the cheapskate's getting the core version without the hard drive will suffer in Oblivion.

[Ailer]

Awesome wording on your comment. Only the cheapskates will suffer in hell!

[Morratut]

Nice 1 :D

I still think that if people have a choice of a hard disk at the START of a consoles lifecycle it will get used. This is proof of it :)

[makkura]

many people were complaining Oblivion would suffer from the lack of hard drive, when in fact only the cheapskate's getting the core version without the hard drive will suffer in Oblivion.[/i]


oh i do love the smell of flamebait in the morning :p

[bapenguin]

oh i do love the smell of flamebait in the morning :p

Ya...I woke up on the wrong side of the bed. :)

[makkura]

a little bit offtopic question: i saw that microsoft will sell a wireless adapter for the 360, i thought it came with it, do i need it or can i plug my ethernet cable in it ?

[Reanimated]

I woke up on the wrong side of J. Allard's throne of lies.

[Ailer]

I believe I read somewhere that it will still have ethernet ports, but the cheap version doesn't come with any cable.

Oh and in response to ReAnimated, I'm sure the microsoft marketing people FINALLY got to touch the xbox360, and are turning it into what we all hate.

[makkura]

well i was planning on switching to wireless, so i gather i will need to buy the adapter ?

[Ailer]

that is likely, yes.

[bapenguin]

well i was planning on switching to wireless, so i gather i will need to buy the adapter ?

There are plenty of other options too...basically you just need a wireless bridge. If you only want a B adapter it's pretty cheap. Linksys (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;tag=happyapplefar-20&amp;creative=9325&amp;path=tg/detail/-/B0000AJVBW/qid=1124366717/sr=8-2/ref=pd_bbs_2?v=glance%26s=electronics%26n=507846) has one for <$50. If you want a G one (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;tag=happyapplefar-20&amp;creative=9325&amp;path=tg/detail/-/B00009X6DT/qid=1124366717/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1?v=glance%26s=electronics%26n=507846). ..it's slightly more. Netgear (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?link_code=ur2&amp;camp=1789&amp;tag=happyapplefar-20&amp;creative=9325&amp;path=tg/detail/-/B000637RGQ/qid=1124366717/sr=8-4/ref=pd_bbs_4?v=glance%26s=pc%26n=507846) has a slightly cheaper G one as well.

The adavatage with these is they will technically work with any device. So if you get a PS3 in the future...they will work with that.

Newegg has the B adapter (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16873999101) for 31.99 after a 10 dollar rebate.

[IndependentGMR]

well i was planning on switching to wireless, so i gather i will need to buy the adapter ?

No problem! The wireless adapter is only $100.

[Borys]

Ehh, it will be still the same game. Same experience minus or plus the loading.


No, it won't be scaled down at all. It'll be the exact same game, with the exact same content with or without the HDD. And no, that doesn't mean it's scaled down to begin with.

Still - best on PC.
1600x1200 not some crappy (YUCK !) 1280x780, tons of user created mods (not only those accepted by MS), you get the idea.

:)

[fitbabits]

So there you have it, many people were complaining Oblivion would suffer from the lack of hard drive, when in fact only the cheapskate's getting the core version without the hard drive will suffer in Oblivion.

I'm telling you, cheapskates will be the death of the videogame industry. :rolleyes:

[Dirty Harry]

I'm telling you, cheapskates will be the death of the videogame industry. :rolleyes:
cheapskates are the ones that birthed the console..........

Spenders are the ones that started the pc market...........

[fitbabits]

cheapskates are the ones that birthed the console..........

Spenders are the ones that started the pc market...........

Huh, now there's some food for thought...

[PacerDawn]

While the phanboi's argue over their types of Gay-Box, or Gay-Cube, or PS-Gay, I will be playing Oblivion on my PC with no worries at all.

It's great to be a PC gamer.

[bapenguin]

While the phanboi's argue over their types of Gay-Box, or Gay-Cube, or PS-Gay, I will be playing Oblivion on my PC with no worries at all.

It's great to be a PC gamer.

Your only worry will be, "is my pc capable of running it"
:)

I still don't know which system I want to get it for....I need to know a PC release date. If it's MUCH later than the 360...I will end up getting both.

[fitbabits]

While the phanboi's argue over their types of Gay-Box, or Gay-Cube, or PS-Gay, I will be playing Oblivion on my PC with no worries at all.

It's great to be a PC gamer.

I get it, you're gay!

It's great to be a gamer, period - be it on PC, PS2, Xbox, GBA, GameCube, etc... Why deny yourself some classic console games because you're too proud of your PC?

[El Gato]

I will be playing Oblivion on my PC with no worries at all.

It's rare that anyone plays a game on a pc with no worries...

[TRiLoGY]

It's rare that anyone plays a game on a pc with no worries...

hmm.. well I've had no problems running PC Games

But to be fair, I have high specs:

P4 3Ghz 800FSB HT
1Gb Ram
X800 XT PE

I'm tempted to pic this up for X360.. I think in the future (for me anyway) it will be cheaper to get the same games on Console, rather than having to upgrade my PC all the time (especially as the Nxt Gen games are beginning to look just as good as pc Games and with good Performance) Thats just my Opinion though..

:)

[VoodooKarma]

I'm tempted to pic this up for X360.. I think in the future (for me anyway) it will be cheaper to get the same games on Console, rather than having to upgrade my PC all the time (especially as the Nxt Gen games are beginning to look just as good as pc Games and with good Performance) Thats just my Opinion though..

:)

I feel the same way. I used to always get these type of games for my PC but it's just too expensive to keep upgrading my PC all the time. Not to mention, I am getting sick of trying to figure out why some games won't run right on my pc....whether it's some driver update or a patch I need to download or some mysterious problem that takes me hours to figure out. I am getting lazy in my old age, I just want to turn the power on and play. Plus, I much prefer being able to play my games laying on the couch in front of the HD TV as opposed to being hunched over my computer desk for hours at a time.

[Borys]

Hey PC lovers, let's not derail this thread any further, ok?

Another quote about HD/HD-less Oblivion:

The Microsoft line is that games may take advantage of the HDD if it's there, but must be able to run if it's not. Beyond that I can't be more specific.

Sooooo each & every game may have specific functions/ features hardcoded in for the 360 with HD.

Of course implementing them costs time & money.

I can already see a BIG marketing push for Halo 3 with extra HD fetures. Gotta sell'em $99 HDDs...

[Dirty Harry]

I feel the same way. I used to always get these type of games for my PC but it's just too expensive to keep upgrading my PC all the time. Not to mention, I am getting sick of trying to figure out why some games won't run right on my pc....whether it's some driver update or a patch I need to download or some mysterious problem that takes me hours to figure out. I am getting lazy in my old age, I just want to turn the power on and play. Plus, I much prefer being able to play my games laying on the couch in front of the HD TV as opposed to being hunched over my computer desk for hours at a time.
You really should invest in a good computer chair, but not that chair made of speakers, that is a bad chair. bad chair, bad.

[PIPBoy3000]

Huh. Having a game run with or without a hard drive seems like a pretty big deal, especially for a game like Oblivion. It sounds like it'll be pulling data from the DVD otherwise, and quite a bit of it. I wonder if they had to tone down the quality and ship lower resolution textures and audio just to deal with memory and transfer rate issues. Blah.

[VoodooKarma]

You really should invest in a good computer chair, but not that chair made of speakers, that is a bad chair. bad chair, bad.


I did make the mistake of getting one of those 'good posture' chairs. It's got to be one of the most uncomfortable chairs in the world!

[Dirty Harry]

I did make the mistake of getting one of those 'good posture' chairs. It's got to be one of the most uncomfortable chairs in the world!
These 100 dollar chairs, i have, are so good that occasionally i can fall asleep on these chairs. If you add a blanket and a small pillow, its like whoa.

[bapenguin]

Huh. Having a game run with or without a hard drive seems like a pretty big deal, especially for a game like Oblivion. It sounds like it'll be pulling data from the DVD otherwise, and quite a bit of it. I wonder if they had to tone down the quality and ship lower resolution textures and audio just to deal with memory and transfer rate issues. Blah.

From the Oblivion Forum from one of the Devs:"No, it won't be scaled down at all. It'll be the exact same game, with the exact same content with or without the HDD. And no, that doesn't mean it's scaled down to begin with."

[bapenguin]

I can already see a BIG marketing push for Halo 3 with extra HD fetures. Gotta sell'em $99 HDDs...

The whole split system thing is a marketing ploy. The $299 system is their money maker. It'll be like the N64 "Expansion" pack later on. There will be games coming out that require the hard drive for "Maximum play" everyone is going to want to get the hard drive.

[Kelegacy]

No problem! The wireless adapter is only $100.

Will you need a wireless adapter for the PS3? Or is it wireless out of the box? With all those goddamned ports, it better be.

[Dirty Harry]

I personally dont mind cords, its part of being a console gamer.

[Kamalot]

There are plenty of other options too...basically you just need a wireless bridge. [sic]
The adavatage with these is they will technically work with any device. So if you get a PS3 in the future...they will work with that.
Thing is, with a PS3 or Revolution, you won't NEED a wireless bridge. All other next-gen consoles come WITH Wi-Fi. Why not the 360? That's a total scam to get people to spend another $39 on a wireless adapter.

Lame.

[Murmillo]

Oh Perigon... where are you?.

[MrMeatshake]

I feel the same way. I used to always get these type of games for my PC but it's just too expensive to keep upgrading my PC all the time. Not to mention, I am getting sick of trying to figure out why some games won't run right on my pc....whether it's some driver update or a patch I need to download or some mysterious problem that takes me hours to figure out. I am getting lazy in my old age, I just want to turn the power on and play.

omg yes. just started playing CS:S - great game, but it's just been left behind compared to the overall experience of halo2 (not the game itself). all the frustrations with the game, the settings, the servers, the drivers, the specs, the players, the different ways of cheating or 'semi-cheating' on PC (can you say 'bind'?). nearly everything is sorted out for you on a console game.

last night i tried 2 play CS:S. it apparently freezes my router every time i hit 'refresh servers' this took me aboot half an hour to figure out. i then jumped into a server with a friend via xfire (brilliant bit of software) and waited for ages for it to download stupid wav files i'd never hear anyway. got tired of that, tried to joing my friend in a different game, same happened. third time, ended up in a game with people saying 'don't shoot' then setting the gravity to half and gayley jumping as high as buildings and killing each other, like gays. finally, the next server i got on was ok, no gayers, fast, no massive downloads needed, but the guys there were 200 times better than us.

when you've sat in front of your tv and been in a great, close, fast, level (playing-field wise, everyone using similar contollers, rez etc.) match of halo2 with voice comms within 30 seconds of choosing what game type to play, PC gaming becomes about 10 steps back!

/rant

[VoodooKarma]

I can already see a BIG marketing push for Halo 3 with extra HD features. Gotta sell'em $99 HDDs...

As long as they are using the HD. Microsoft is in this business to make money let's not forget. They sold the original XBox at a loss to get their foot in the market, now that they have a foothold in the market they don't want to sell at a loss anymore. At least they are giving consumers the option. I understand why people are upset that all XBox 360's do not come with a HD standard but then people would bitch about the XBox 360 costing too much money. I get the impression that some people would not be happy here unless the Xbox 360 came standard with a 80GB HD and cost $200. As far as the HD being overpriced, well what vidoegame accesory by any company ISN'T overpriced. Memory cards have been selling for $20-$25 at minimum and how much do they hold?

[solinari6]

Newegg has the B adapter (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16873999101) for 31.99 after a 10 dollar rebate.
You are better off getting a generic bridge instead of a "gaming" one. Newegg has a B linksys (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16833124105) one for $18 after a $30 rebate.

[Morrolan]

Well, this is just fantastic. I don't care if all it affects is load times, the simple fact is that if you spend more money, the game will perform better.

MS has brought the single worst thing about PC gaming, to the console world. Nintendo and Sony have tried it, but they failed. What makes this different is that MS will probably succeed. Damn it.

[MrMeatshake]

MS has brought the single worst thing about PC gaming, to the console world. Nintendo and Sony have tried it, but they failed. What makes this different is that MS will probably succeed. Damn it.

v true, and i agreed when i first heard about the xbox. and yes, it freezes up about 1,000 times more than any other console because of it, but damnit if downloadable content isn't quite cool!

however, it also opens the door for developers releasing broken games which should never have seen the light of day until they're finally patched up to v1.3 or something :-/

[bapenguin]

Thing is, with a PS3 or Revolution, you won't NEED a wireless bridge. All other next-gen consoles come WITH Wi-Fi. Why not the 360? That's a total scam to get people to spend another $39 on a wireless adapter.

Lame.

Lets not forget when the 360 was announced it was going to have wireless out of the box...and that dissapeared. The same may happen for the PS3/Revolution.

[Kelegacy]

Thing is, with a PS3 or Revolution, you won't NEED a wireless bridge. All other next-gen consoles come WITH Wi-Fi. Why not the 360? That's a total scam to get people to spend another $39 on a wireless adapter.

Lame.

Okay, you answered my question. My response is "That's a whole lotta bullshit!"

The Xbox is just starting to sell well...that means people weren't buying the system before...what makes them think that someone is going to buy all this bullshit? To really enjoy the 360 in all it's next-gen glory, you need to buy a cockwad full of accessories, and get the 399 version. It already seems the 360 is more of a hassle than it is worth. Those MS guys are fucking geniuses. Shot yourself in the foot and then let the guy jogging 6 months behind you take the checkered flag. Have they not learned anything from last round? Where did this hubris suddenly come from?

Hello Dreamcast 2. So much potential, but most of it wasted.

[Borys]

Thing is, with a PS3 or Revolution, you won't NEED a wireless bridge. All other next-gen consoles come WITH Wi-Fi. Why not the 360? That's a total scam to get people to spend another $39 on a wireless adapter.

Lame.

Nothing is set in stone yet. PS3 may loose many features over time and as for Revo we don't know enough solid info for now.

You cannot make any ASSumptions or you'll look like an ass later on.

But I wouldn't expect any better from you, Kamalot.

[fitbabits]

Have they not learned anything from last round? Where did this hubris suddenly come from?

See, this is why I frequent EvAv - Kelegacy used the word 'hubris' in a post! I'm so giddy I could pee my pants! :eek:

[PIPBoy3000]

"No, it won't be scaled down at all. It'll be the exact same game, with the exact same content with or without the HDD. And no, that doesn't mean it's scaled down to begin with."


That's interesting, bapenguin. So the game won't be scaled down at all. That seems to contradict the statement that Oblivion will take full advantage of the hard drive. What's there to take advantage of? Will non-HD gamers get "Loading . . . Please Wait" messages as content loads off the DVD? It wouldn't technically be scaled down, but it would make gameplay annoying.

[bapenguin]

That's interesting, bapenguin. So the game won't be scaled down at all. That seems to contradict the statement that Oblivion will take full advantage of the hard drive. What's there to take advantage of? Will non-HD gamers get "Loading . . . Please Wait" messages as content loads off the DVD? It wouldn't technically be scaled down, but it would make gameplay annoying.

I think that's exactly what's going to happen. People without the hard drive get to wait. I guess time is money in this case....ok that was bad.

[vanlandw]

good to see a developer make a stand and firmly support the HD. I feel a little better about yesterdays announcement

[Morratut]

I agree completely with what your saying MeatShake. PC gaming is clunky compared to console gaming in my opinion.

Console gaming :- Stick the disc in. Grab some friends and have some good competitive games with great competitive gaming

PC gaming :- boot PC up. Which server are you on?Oh that one nice. Damn not enough for 2 of us. Choose this one.Nobody on.Why won't voice work.Freeze,crash,Stutter,Jerk.Aww man were getting owned by ELITE players,no fun. Aww no my mate has gone over the opposing side, damn.

Don't get me wrong i like gaming on my PC but it can be a hassle at times. With console online gaming i get a more consistent positive experience :)

[solinari6]

Thing is, with a PS3 or Revolution, you won't NEED a wireless bridge. All other next-gen consoles come WITH Wi-Fi. Why not the 360? That's a total scam to get people to spend another $39 on a wireless adapter.

Lame.
$39? The offical wireless adapter is $99!

[Heretic Machine]

Oh Perigon... where are you?

Well I was asleep, yo.

As for this wireless mess... I remember when I bought my wireless router I thought, "Hey, this will be awesome! All of the next gen consoles come with wi-fi right out of the box, I'll never have to string an ethernet cable over a door again!"

WRONG! The 360 has dropped it, and I'm sure there is a good chance that PS3 features will start dropping like flies once we start coming up on the launch. I'm not saying that wi-fi will be dropped, but there is a good chance. I think the Revolution will keep it, but that's just speculation.

EDIT: Oh, and I so forgot to say this... A 360 copy of Oblivion becomes a coaster after about six months, tops. A PC copy of Oblivion lives a long and hardy life spanning several years as the modding community continues to add content that is superior even to what the devs offer.

I owned both versions of Morrowind, and the PC version is clearly superior, I still play it today.

[Hellstorm]

Of course Bethesda wants you to get the HD, how else will they get the fun patch to 360 users at a later time?

[zangster]

I think that's exactly what's going to happen. People without the hard drive get to wait. I guess time is money in this case....ok that was bad.

You never know, there may also be downloadable content in the way of extra missions, something that a player may want to have a HD to take full advantage of.

[Hellstorm]

Will you need a wireless adapter for the PS3? Or is it wireless out of the box? With all those goddamned ports, it better be.

The Revolution is the only console wireless out of the box, I believe.

[bapenguin]

The Revolution is the only console wireless out of the box, I believe.

Right now the PS3 is listed to have it too. I too get the hunch though Nintendo will be the only one to have it....granted we don't know what the hell we get to use it for or play it with.

[Borys]

EDIT: Oh, and I so forgot to say this... A 360 copy of Oblivion becomes a coaster after about six months, tops. A PC copy of Oblivion lives a long and hardy life spanning several years as the modding community continues to add content that is superior even to what the devs offer.

I owned both versions of Morrowind, and the PC version is clearly superior, I still play it today.

Yo Perigon, anti-Xbox guy here but listen up:

There will be mods (maybe? as in mods as we know from PC version) and other downloadable content (NOT mods - prolly dungeons, weapons, armors etc.) for 360 version of Oblivion.

Sounds good, eh?

HOWEVER they'll have to pass some internal MS (or Bethesda) Q&A so your 11-yr old George or "Velocity Jailbait" won't download a HUGE PENIS & VAGINA mod.

Of course you'll be able to freely download this mod on the PC version.

And I've yet to think on the pricing - will these 360 mods be free? or for $.50? MICROTRANSACTIONS? Don't know.

^^That's all speculation BTW.

[Heretic Machine]

HOWEVER they'll have to pass some internal MS (or Bethesda) Q&A so your 11-yr old George or "Velocity Jailbait" won't download a HUGE PENIS & VAGINA mod.

That means no better bodies mod (if such a thing will exist for Oblivion) :( Besides, I always liked killing naked Nords in Bloodmoon. Plus, even if mods are aloud and have to go through that Q&A, how long do you think that's gonna keep up before they stop approving new mods? And what about fairly graphic mods like The Horror Mod, or mods that change every texture in the game (the graphics replacers) which will be fairly large?

I'm just not buying this whole monitored mods thing, I didn't think it'd work even when I wanted a 360.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot all about mods that violate copyrights, like the Moogle mod which I love so much...

[Atorak]

Dear Lord PLEASE bring on Oblivion. PC, X360, eh, I'm split on which one I'm picking up. Guess i'll wait for reviews...if I can wait that long.

[Kelegacy]

Dear Lord PLEASE bring on Oblivion. PC, X360, eh, I'm split on which one I'm picking up. Guess i'll wait for reviews...if I can wait that long.

If you have a PC that's up to snuff, it's a no brainer.

[Heretic Machine]

If you have a PC that's up to snuff, it's a no brainer.

Exactly... the 360 version is basically for people who can't run it on their PC. In other words, the cheap skates.

[VoodooKarma]

Exactly... the 360 version is basically for people who can't run it on their PC. In other words, the cheap skates.

What an ass you are. Some of us aren't immature, punk college kids trying to look cool on a message board. Some of us are adults who have families to support, mortgages to pay, daughters to buy school clothes for, etc. Another great post by ignorant, douchebag Perigon. The same Perigon who has been bitching about paying too much for the XBox 360 but claims people who aren't willing to blow $500 on theiur PC every other year are cheapskates. Brilliant, man, brilliant!

[Kelegacy]

What an ass you are. Some of us aren't immature, punk college kids trying to look cool on a message board. Some of us are adults who have families to support, mortgages to pay, daughters to buy school clothes for, etc. Another great post by ignorant, douchebag Perigon. The same Perigon who has been bitching about paying too much for the XBox 360 but claims people who aren't willing to blow $500 on theiur PC every other year are cheapskates. Brilliant, man, brilliant!

Well, he does have a point, in a roundabout way. In this forum there are console gamers calling people who buy the 299 bundle for the 360 cheapskates. It's only fitting that he call the 399 buyers (who called "cheapskate" on the 299 guys) cheapskates in turn for not upgrading their PC's to play Oblivion.

Oh, Perigon is still a mighty douchepipe, but maybe he was justified in this criticism.

;) Just kidding, Perigon.

[kid cabelgo]

Ehh, it will be still the same game. Same experience minus or plus the loading.



Still - best on PC.
1600x1200 not some crappy (YUCK !) 1280x780, tons of user created mods (not only those accepted by MS), you get the idea.

:)


If you're playing your games like Battlefield 2 at 1600x1200, you either don't care about framerates, or you've just spent money on a computer that would have provided you with a nice new car.

[Heretic Machine]

VoodooKarma, you shouldn't direct posts towards me, since you yourself requested to be put on my ignore list. I can only read those posts when someone quotes you, and with your mightily useless posts I doubt that will happen very often :)

Now listen to what Kelegacy says, and then consider thinking before shooting your mouth off again.

[VoodooKarma]

I just want to get you all worked up again Perigon, your posts are much more entertaining then! You must be medicated today as it does not seem to be working. Come on man, get with the program! Maybe this will work.....'PC's suck and XBox 360 rules!! '. I guess you can't read this anyways since I am on the 'ignore' list, hehe, but maybe someone can quote me.

[Phades]

I'll buy Oblivion for the Xbox360 just because I'm more of a console gamer. I play both, but I can usually sit on a couch kicking back for longer than I can at a desk and enjoy it. I stare at a computer screen all day, I like to fool myself into thinking I'm doing something else at night other than staring at a monitor.

As for longevity, it's true that the PC version will no doubt have more mods and a longer life than the console version. But personally, I really just don't have the time for a game to last me more than a few months. I want to play and experience several games. So, Oblivian becoming a "coaster in six month" isn't such a bad thing to me. I'll beat it, love it I'm sure, and move on. At which point I'll sell it on Ebay. The only real exceptions to this for me are multiplayer games like Half Life 2 or Battlefield 2. I'll hold onto those for the mods because it's fun to load one up and play it for an hour or so and be done. My problem with the mods for Morrowind (I have the PC version) are that they're much more time consuming. This certainly isn't a bad thing, it's just not for me.

[Heretic Machine]

I'll buy Oblivion for the Xbox360 just because I'm more of a console gamer. I play both, but I can usually sit on a couch kicking back for longer than I can at a desk and enjoy it. I stare at a computer screen all day, I like to fool myself into thinking I'm doing something else at night other than staring at a monitor.

You know... maybe people just need to have a different mentality to be a PC gamer. I mean, I sit at a computer almost 24/7 (I'm at my desk almost all the time at home, even when playing console games, and I carry my laptop with me everywhere else I go) and I don't have a problem with it. Actually, when I'm not at a computer I feel a bit disconnected. That could be a bad thing, but whatever, it works for me.

[Phades]

You know... maybe people just need to have a different mentality to be a PC gamer.

I think you're absolutely right. I have friends who could do that same thing as you, sit at a computer 24/7 and be perfectly happy. I just get tired of it and need a change of atmosphere. The other thing I like about console gaming is that I like being in the living room, closer to my family, rather than be alone back in my office. Unfortunately, there's no way my wife would let me move my computer desk out there :)

[drakkarim]

the only people that will suffer are those that don't buy Oblivion PERIOD. albeit they're probably won't realize they're suffering :)

[Mr.Green]

I used to be a PC snob myself playing Quake1/2/3 in clans and all that jazz but I couldn't care less about PC gaming these days, and yes I do have a high-end PC that I upgraded just to play Half-Life 2 and Doom 3. The thing is, my consoles are hooked to a kick ass 7.1 Denon receiver and an HD projector that shoots a 106" image. Also, I work on a freakin computer all day long, my neck and back are killing me and yes I have a very good chair. I'm much more comfy on the couch with the girlfriend besides me. Keyboard and mouse? I've grown so used of the controler that I now even prefer it. No it's not as precise as the mouse but the games are designed around it and the movement is handled a lot better with an analog stick than a freakin keyboard.

And by the way, the Xbox 360 has at least as much power than any high-end PC on the market right now.

Did I just participate in a PC vs. Console debate? Please kill me.

[Heretic Machine]

I used to be a PC snob myself playing Quake1/2/3 in clans and all that jazz but I couldn't care less about PC gaming these days, and yes I do have a high-end PC that I upgraded just to play Half-Life 2 and Doom 3. The thing is, my consoles are hooked to a kick ass 7.1 Denon receiver and an HD projector that shoots a 106" image. Also, I work on a freakin computer all day long, my neck and back are killing me and yes I have a very good chair. I'm much more comfy on the couch with the girlfriend besides me. Keyboard and mouse? I've grown so used of the controler that I now even prefer it. No it's not as precise as the mouse but the games are designed around it and the movement is handled a lot better with an analog stick than a freakin keyboard.

And by the way, the Xbox 360 has at least as much power than any high-end PC on the market right now.

Did I just participate in a PC vs. Console debate? Please kill me.

And yet, the modding community is still dead in the water when it comes to consoles... Even with the micro transactions, I doubt very much that the console will get anything decent. And since I play for user created content, the console is right out.

[The Iron Weasel]

i'm getting a brand new pc soon so i'm thinking that the PC will be the way to go, but still i'm not sure, i like the sounds of a widescreen gaming experiance (no i dont have a widescreen moniter)

oh and the pc version will be cheaper!

[Mr.Green]

And yet, the modding community is still dead in the water when it comes to consoles... Even with the micro transactions, I doubt very much that the console will get anything decent. And since I play for user created content, the console is right out.
Fair enough, but I barely have time to play the games I buy let alone the time to play mods on top of them. Also, content creation is becoming a hell lot harder to do for amateurs. Just look at Half-Life 2 and Doom 3, 2 series that used to spawn beeelions of mods, not much of interest has been made for them. I worked on LMCTF (http://www.planetquake.com/lmctf) for Quake 2, Alliance (http://www.planetquake.com/alliance) for Quake 3 and I.C.S. (http://www.planetsoldier.com/ics) for Soldier of Fortune 2 doing code and a ton of levels on my free time. No way in hell I could find the time to do "next-gen" stuff without quitting my day job.

[Borys]

This has to be the best and most toned down PC vs console debate I've ever seen.

None of this PC elitists, rich bastards or console kiddies crap I'm used to.

Thumbs up, guys I certainly do understand someone who just prefers console gaming because it's easier, cheaper and more comfortable because, well, IT IS! to spamming "lol PC sux, cost $5K" like a 11-yr old.

I'm a console/PC guy myself and always have been. No jRPGs on the PC make me cry and awkward FPSes controls on the consoles make me cry.
Nothing's gonna change this time.
I hope they (Sony, MS or whoever is at the top) never succees in making a full PC/console hybrid.

Too much fun and exclusive features in both of the worlds!

[Achilles]

Hmm, I do like the nude patch for the Elder Scrolls series since it reminds me of what Daggerfall was like, what with the temple of the love god and all that. But I am fairly sure that the one on 360 will look better since it’s a more powerful system than my PC (2.8Ghz) could ever hope to be. I know there’s some chaps at Bethesda who read this site, are you going to offer a Daggerfall style M rated mod for the 360 version?

Other than that- the HDD cost discussion; I hope everyone realizes before they go slamming the cost that it’s not an IDE HDD. It’s quite a bit faster. It’s part of MS’s plan to eliminate bottlenecks in their architecture. I expect load times to be extremely low on games that cache to the HDD.

[51|RandoM]

I feel the same way. I used to always get these type of games for my PC but it's just too expensive to keep upgrading my PC all the time. Not to mention, I am getting sick of trying to figure out why some games won't run right on my pc....whether it's some driver update or a patch I need to download or some mysterious problem that takes me hours to figure out. I am getting lazy in my old age, I just want to turn the power on and play. Plus, I much prefer being able to play my games laying on the couch in front of the HD TV as opposed to being hunched over my computer desk for hours at a time.


The only thing stopping you from playing your pc games from the couch is YOU.

I play pc games from the couch just fine.

Really don't know why people keep acting like you can't output pc graphics to any display you'd use for a console---YOU CAN!

Really don't know why people keep acting like you can't use a game controller on your pc---YOU CAN!

Really don't know why people haven't figured you can also use wireless peripherals on the PC---YOU CAN!

Gets old seeing this same retarded excuse come up.

[51|RandoM]

Other than that- the HDD cost discussion; I hope everyone realizes before they go slamming the cost that it’s not an IDE HDD. It’s quite a bit faster. It’s part of MS’s plan to eliminate bottlenecks in their architecture. I expect load times to be extremely low on games that cache to the HDD.

Nobody realizes it. What is this miracle technology only used on xbox360 that makes a harddrive much faster than current pc hardrives?

Unless it is 20 gigs of solid state ram, I don't expect it to be any faster than a raptor.

It is probably a 4200rpm laptop drive in a snap-in enclosure.

[Xerxes]

That's what I"m lost on... PC Gamers are still banking on the better looking version... Mods i'll give you and you can have... But looks better than gpu ATI claims is a few steps ahead of it's x800 and 3cpu 3.2 ghz.... I just don't see it... If anything i'd say they'll look about the same... Some guy is with a 19in moniter and a 52in HDTV.. Which should he choose...

[Kelegacy]

This has to be the best and most toned down PC vs console debate I've ever seen.

None of this PC elitists, rich bastards or console kiddies crap I'm used to.

Thumbs up, guys I certainly do understand someone who just prefers console gaming because it's easier, cheaper and more comfortable because, well, IT IS! to spamming "lol PC sux, cost $5K" like a 11-yr old.

I'm a console/PC guy myself and always have been. No jRPGs on the PC make me cry and awkward FPSes controls on the consoles make me cry.
Nothing's gonna change this time.
I hope they (Sony, MS or whoever is at the top) never succees in making a full PC/console hybrid.

Too much fun and exclusive features in both of the worlds!

That would make the second day in a row I was impressed with the conduct in the forums, the debates, and responses from members. Maybe we've entered a paradigm shift, an alternate version of EvAv...a BIZARRO Avatar realm?

*cue Thriller overture.

[Zeal]

I won't lie, I've been to a bunch of game related forums, and EvilAvatar is easily the best one I've ever seen. It doesn't endorse Nazi-styled moderation and the users are intelligent and informed.

I can foresee this site becoming a pretty big force in game news. For realz, though.

[Rangoth]

You are all fools. Just you all wait, the days of PC gaming are numbered for the Virtual Boy shall make a huge return and vanquish the personal computer with the high tech graphics only it can create! Just wait and see!!! ;-)

[TheBrainKills]

I hope they (Sony, MS or whoever is at the top) never succees in making a full PC/console hybrid.

Too much fun and exclusive features in both of the worlds!

Well I think I am done upgrading my PC. I am at the age where screwing about with PC's is more of a job than a hobbie now. Its been 20 years now, and upgrading every 6 months has caught up to me. So I figure I am going to join the console crowd now, the machines are finally capable of hi-rez graphics (sorry Xbox just doesn't cut it for me). The xbox399 will finally have what I want, that is if I can plug any USB keyboard into it. We shall see if the lure of the dark side lasts.

[trip1eX]

Nobody realizes it. What is this miracle technology only used on xbox360 that makes a harddrive much faster than current pc hardrives?

Unless it is 20 gigs of solid state ram, I don't expect it to be any faster than a raptor.

It is probably a 4200rpm laptop drive in a snap-in enclosure.

Yeah the HD in the 360 is definitley not a 7200 rpm model. It's going to be a slow laptop HD.

[Achilles]

Nobody realizes it. What is this miracle technology only used on xbox360 that makes a harddrive much faster than current pc hardrives?Wow you guys really didn't know that (looking at the other posts) huh, well you'll find out more later I suppose. It has nothing to do with rpms btw, it's about transfer rate.

[trip1eX]

Wow you guys really didn't know that (looking at the other posts) huh, well you'll find out more later I suppose. It has nothing to do with rpms btw, it's about transfer rate.

ah how do you think transfer rate is determined? The big factors are data density and rpms. Same as an optical drive.

the slower the rpms the slower the hard drive given the same data density.

And let me tell you a 20gb hard drive has alot less data density than today's 120-300+gb hard drives.

[Draft]

Wow you guys really didn't know that (looking at the other posts) huh, well you'll find out more later I suppose. It has nothing to do with rpms btw, it's about transfer rate.I'm interested in hearing more. PC hard drives don't even come close to saturating archaic transfer standards like ATA100- is the Xbox360s going to be different somehow?

[Achilles]

ah how do you think transfer rate is determined? The big factors are data density and rpms. Same as an optical drive.I'm going to try to find some stuff on the spesifics so I can post it, but if I can't than this is the last you'll hear.

[trip1eX]

I'm going to try to find some stuff on the spesifics so I can post it, but if I can't than this is the last you'll hear.

I guess that's the last we hear of you then cause you can't outdo the laws of physics.

[Achilles]

I guess that's the last we hear of you then cause you can't outdo the laws of physics.Yeah hah-hah. If you want to think it’s a standard IDE, or a slow lap top drive go right ahead until they bother to announce what it is. Apparently they don’t think it’s important to do damage control on their price point so I’m not going to do it for them.

But if you would like a faster hard drive for your PC there are technologies out there that started showing up at around 2003 which combined faster rpms with a higher data transfer rate.

[Kelegacy]

Barring that it doesnt fuck up XBOX LIVE!--which I'm sure it will--someone should be able to mod their ThreeSixty with a faster and larger hard drive of their own, right? I know with the original box, XB LIVE was impossible with a modded hard drive. I'm sure they've upped the security of their new system due to the easy nature of cracking and modding the previous system. Still, it would be nice to be able to add your own stuff instead of using theirs. I wonder how long it will be before modders crack this system. Since it's still a standard DVD system, i'm guessing not long. At least the Blu-Ray will hamper the PS3's pirate acts for awhile anyway...until BR burners and media become readily affordable.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

With all the talk about mods, has any consideration been given to the 'difficulty' of programming for multiple cores? How much effect will this have on the amount of mods coming out for multi-core games? Every developer stating that programming for these machines will be more difficult, I can't imagine that this will be an easy process to overcome for the 'casual' modder. If I'm correct in this, mods will become fewer and fewer as games become more complex and require larger teams.

This is just an opinion though...

[Evil Avatar]

A couple of minor points...

First of all the Xbox 360 is significantly MORE powerfull than even a top end PC. Just like the Xbox 1 was more powerful than PC's at the time the 360 will top PC's for the first couple of years. The video components in the 360 are similar in power to TWO GeForce 6800 cards running in SLI. While I know a lot of my readers (and myself) are high-end PC gamers, I doubt many of us are running SLI rigs yet. For $399.99 you are going to have a system that can run 720p with 4xFSAA on your computer monitor. That is a pretty good deal for the money.

Second, how many people here are seriously considering buying the $299.99 version without the hard drive? If you aren't going to purchase the low-end system, then I wouldn't be all that concerned about wether or not developers are going to take advantage of the hard disk. You will have one for patch files and extra content - so why worry about the little guy?

Third, no one here seems to have addressed the idea that load times on current generation console titles are very low. Ever played DOOM 3 on your PC? How about Half-Life 2? The wait time for a level to load in those two titles is more than equal to the load time in DOOM 3 for the Xbox or Killzone for the Playstation 2. I'm sorry, but wait times for console titles is a non-issue. The wait times in most console titles are pretty similar to most current generation PC titles. If you get the $399.99 system it should shave a little bit off load times - and again who is thinking of buying the $299 system?

If you are thinking of going budget... think again. You will want that hard disk for Xbox Live and you aren't going to want to spend the money on the remote or the headset after the fact. Just buy the better system.

I was as shocked as anyone that there would be a "low end" system, but I'm over it. I realize that I'm getting a lot of goodies for the extra $100.00 (Hard drive, headset, component cables, wireless controller) and I know that the Playstation 3 will be $400 at launch.

Everyone just needs to chill and wait for the list of launch titles. That is when the fun starts.

[Heretic Machine]

Uhh... Evil, no one here has said (as far as I could tell) that they would buy the $299 system. We've all been bitching because it exists, and it introduces several problems (previously outlined) in the platform.

[Xerxes]

Actually Perigon you were also bitching about paying more than $300 for a console as well...

To just to reclarify:
-Developers can't rely on caching but it's there to use if game is on a hdd xbox
-Live works on memory cards if need be, so you can still get updates
-Save games with hdd
-Still can make custom soundtracks with hdd
-Microtransaction download BS :confused:
-360 is rumored to allowing modding to some games... :o So was the xbox and i think only Pariah allows anything of the sort eh? :(
-Only a few of companies used hard drives on the xbox and that was just to squeeze the xbox's balls and make it sing for all it's worth
-Only the uninformed will even want the $300 version

[Evil Avatar]

Uhh... Evil, no one here has said (as far as I could tell) that they would buy the $299 system. We've all been bitching because it exists, and it introduces several problems (previously outlined) in the platform.

You seem to be the one doing the most bitching.

[Phades]

The only thing stopping you from playing your pc games from the couch is YOU.

I play pc games from the couch just fine.

Really don't know why people keep acting like you can't output pc graphics to any display you'd use for a console---YOU CAN!

Really don't know why people keep acting like you can't use a game controller on your pc---YOU CAN!

Really don't know why people haven't figured you can also use wireless peripherals on the PC---YOU CAN!

Gets old seeing this same retarded excuse come up.

I haven't seen a single post that said you CAN'T play PC games in your living room from your couch. But let's face it, you usually don't.

I have other purposes for my PC besides games. Mainly, work. I really can't do my work in the living room, I need the quiet of my office.

I don't want to have to disconnect everything to take it into the living room to hook up when I want to play. I also don't feel like running all the necessary cable waaaaay across my house to play PC games on my couch when I choose. (you show me a little set top box that easily lets me do this wirelessly and I'll buy it, as long as it's not too expensive.) It's also much less of an ordeal to move my console if the need should arise.

The desire to buy 2 expensive gaming PC's to be able to choose where I want to play just isn't in me. If I want to play games in solitude, I play on my PC. If I don't care or want to be around others, I play console. Usually I choose the 2nd option.

[Phades]

Uhh... Evil, no one here has said (as far as I could tell) that they would buy the $299 system. We've all been bitching because it exists, and it introduces several problems (previously outlined) in the platform.

Just for clarification, would you mind stating what these "several problems" are? Here are some of the ones I can think of, none of them that are big to me.

- Caching. As Evil pointed out, load times just aren't a big deal on consoles. They're almost just as bad on PC's. So this feature isn't that big of a deal.

- Patches. Most console games don't (and shouldn't) need to be patched. Before the Xbox 1, I can't really remember it happening on a console. Again, not a big feature.

- Downloadable content. I personally don't buy games for the promise of downloadable content. It's nice, sure, but it's certainly not a deal closer for me. "What!? Halo 3 doesn't have content downloads! Screw that! <places back on shelf>" With the importance Microsoft has been placing on content downloads, I don't think this will be a problem anyway.

[Heretic Machine]

- Caching. As Evil pointed out, load times just aren't a big deal on consoles. They're almost just as bad on PC's. So this feature isn't that big of a deal.


Ok... you know, graphics aren't that bad on consoles either, why are you upgrading?

- Patches. Most console games don't (and shouldn't) need to be patched. Before the Xbox 1, I can't really remember it happening on a console. Again, not a big feature.


How much online gaming were you doing on consoles before the XBOX?

- Downloadable content. I personally don't buy games for the promise of downloadable content. It's nice, sure, but it's certainly not a deal closer for me. "What!? Halo 3 doesn't have content downloads! Screw that! <places back on shelf>" With the importance Microsoft has been placing on content downloads, I don't think this will be a problem anyway.

Ok... so let's just take out that feature that we had last generation. Seems to be a lot of that going around.

[kathode]

Caching becomes exponentially more important with the more data you have. The differences between hard drive and disc loads for the last generation weren't really felt because it was pretty much transparent to the user on the Xbox, though they can be seen on titles like GTA that got released for multiple platforms. The fact is that the hard drive is an order of magnitude faster than a disc drive, and when you're loading an order of magnitude more data than previously, you'll feel the difference between the two even more. A lot of the differences can be hidden by smart disc layout, and smart streaming routines, but you're still comparing a slow technology to a fast one.

[Phades]

Ok... you know, graphics aren't that bad on consoles either, why are you upgrading?

Weak argument. What console have you seen that has attracted consumers on the basis of its load times? "Now with faster load times!" The only one I can think of that even attempted it was the Nintendo 64..... Didn't seem to bother the Playstation.

Graphics are obviously a reason people buy new consoles, not load times.

How much online gaming were you doing on consoles before the XBOX?

Not as much as Xbox, but I played online quite a bit with my Dreamcast.

ok... so let's just take out that feature that we had last generation. Seems to be a lot of that going around.

Downloadable content as a feature has not been removed. If anything, the structure of the Xbox 360 has made the possibility of it being more prevalent. By including a form of Xbox Live right out of the box there will be more people with online access via their 360. They may not have paid the $50/month, but now they might as well hook it up. Assuming they don't have the hard drive, they'll more than likely have a memory card. A 64MB memory card is still big enough to allow at least some content downloads. If they like what they get, they may now spring for the hard drive so they can do more. Now, of coure I'm not saying it wouldn't be even better if the hard drive were already included. Regardless, everyone having access to Live (if they have broadband of course) is a much bigger benefit to the future of downloadable content than the lack of a hard drive is a detriment.

[Phades]

Caching becomes exponentially more important with the more data you have. The differences between hard drive and disc loads for the last generation weren't really felt because it was pretty much transparent to the user on the Xbox, though they can be seen on titles like GTA that got released for multiple platforms. The fact is that the hard drive is an order of magnitude faster than a disc drive, and when you're loading an order of magnitude more data than previously, you'll feel the difference between the two even more. A lot of the differences can be hidden by smart disc layout, and smart streaming routines, but you're still comparing a slow technology to a fast one.

Absolutely the hard drive would be faster. That's not my point. And yes there's more data to transfer, but then the Xbox360 has a faster DVD drive to help there.

There was definitely a big difference in load times for GTA on the PS2 and Xbox. Still seems to me that the PS2 version did pretty well with its relatively long load times.

[Heretic Machine]

Not as much as Xbox, but I played online quite a bit with my Dreamcast.

Ya, that was great. I loved it when people were able to corrupt my PSO character with a Gameshark.

[Rangoth]

I remember that, damn cheaters. Special place in hell for them.