Old Dog Learns New Tricks: DAoC Continues To Be Updated

[bean19]

According to Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/08/17/news_6131369.html), Dark Age of Camelet (DAoC) is patching in a new Realm vs. Realm area.

Players of the massively multiplayer online role-playing game Dark Age of Camelot now have a new island on which to set forth for the game's signature realm-versus-realm battles. The Isle of Agramon is located in the North Sea within the New Frontiers. For those of us who do not have intricate knowledge of the game's geography, that means its central location makes it easy for players from all three realms to take part in battles. The PC game is entering its fifth year in operation, and it will receive its fourth expansion pack, titled Darkness Rising, this October.Despite DAoC's age, it continues to keep and/or attract subscribers (http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html). I'm amazed that a game this old continues to do so well when it is pitted against such strong opponents that also cater to the fantasy genre. I recently bought all the updates to see where the game had advanced and was not impressed with the graphics, gameplay, or the user-interface (although playing as a vampire was cool). Should this game's success be attributed to customer loyalty? What is keeping this aging MMO afloat enough that they still create content for it instead of working on a sequel or a new intellectual property?

[Moatman]

The main draw of Daoc is the RVR(pvp, 3 "realms" at constant war with a lot of keep and tower sieges) that the game was intended to be built around. The pve aspect of the game is somewhat of an afterthought, the endgame was always meant to be the RVR(and with good reason, it can be quite enjoyable with equal skilled players in somewhat equal amounts) It still has some of the best mmo pvp out there, hands down better than WoW's queue-fest, though I do personally like Planetside a bit more for pvp(but it's a first person shooter mmo, instead of an rpg...)

Daoc's pve system has a couple interesting aspects, but on the whole is very poor. If daoc had been strictly the pve, it would have folded within the first year most likely. So when an expansion comes out, people just look to the items to see what can help their RVR more(he who has the most toys wins...and that's very true in daoc, at least with their Trials of Atlantis expansion) instead of enjoying the content, that isn't true for 100% of the population, but after the initial awe wears off, it's all a means to an end. Their latest expansion, Catacombs, basically halves the time it takes to normally xp up to 50 and go rvr, so I guess Mythic realizes the issues they have.

The sad thing is, they've changed rvr about as drastically as they can without redoing their entire frontier system for the second time(New New Frontiers anyone?) Even with the renewed interest with people with the classic servers, daoc is a dying game unfortunately, it was doing decently until the release of wow, then the server population numbers dropped gradually and still are dropping(besides the new classic servers) Mythic has made some poor judgement calls, their largest was Trials of Atlantis, a somewhat fun pve expansion with items that are *required* to compete in rvr, without them you will lose. Their poor class/realm balancing and slow response to serious balance complaints are also an issue that has frustrated players.

So, basically, people playing daoc tend to play for the RVR and that's about it. I can't imagine a reason anyone would actually want to play the game and start fresh if they weren't interested in the rvr aspect. Besides spending time with friends, the only enjoyable moments I can remember from the game were in rvr, it's fun to see the area's once, but with the graphics that new games are putting out, daoc is close to being totally outdated. If Mythic came out today and announced DAoC 2, almost starting from scratch but also learning from their mistakes, I'd seriously be behind that and hope that they could avoid the pitfalls they made(look at games like planetside or guild wars for the pvp, they've done it very well)

[Orphiuchus]

The thing that shocked me on that graph was that ff11 was still growing. That game sucked donkey balls, and everyone I know canceled their account not long after starting when theg ame came out.

Also, that graph is out of date. Wow is over 3.5 million now.

[Dirty Harry]

The thing that shocked me on that graph was that ff11 was still growing. That game sucked donkey balls, and everyone I know canceled their account not long after starting when theg ame came out.

Also, that graph is out of date. Wow is over 3.5 million now.
I liked ff11, i dunno about anyone else found it enjoyable.

[thegameguru]

hahaha... its always amusing to see people roll out that MMOG subscriber chart..when even the author basically claims no real statistics to back up those numbers.

edit..

I mean common sense would dictate that any MMORPG that has undergone 2 rounds of server consolidations in the past 12 months doesnt have HIGHER subscriber numbers than 18 months ago.

[Babbster]

I mean common sense would dictate that any MMORPG that has undergone 2 rounds of server consolidations in the past 12 months doesnt have HIGHER subscriber numbers than 18 months ago.

Depends on how long it took them to figure out they need to consolidate servers. :)

[bean19]

hahaha... its always amusing to see people roll out that MMOG subscriber chart..when even the author basically claims no real statistics to back up those numbers.

The chart is the best information re: subscriber numbers available on the subject. Should I trust your conjecture that server consolidations indicate a much smaller number of subscribers than the graph? Which is more scientific?

Besides, it really isn't the point. With new MMOs, they always have a part when they get over 50K subscribers because this is the number that will allow for an MMO to be in the black (everything is scaleable, but they need 50K as the smallest possible scale to make money).

If you like these numbers better, I saw 23K players at the log-in screen (they give you the total for all servers) during peak hours. Now a portion of these are free trial people (they are doing the 14 days free thing), but let's say that there are 20K actual subscribers playing each night. If they are like other games and only about 25% of the playerbase is ever on (even at peak hours) then that is 80K subscribers. . . much lower than the chart (http://www.mmogchart.com/), but still a number high enough to sustain this ancient game. . . that despite it's age and it's over-used genre continues to be updated instead of having that development shifted into a sequel.

Tiresome and boring to read me defending my sources, but, you know, trying to be a good journalist. :)

[Heretic Machine]

I used to play DAoC a bit... Never got past lvl 20 though. As people have already pointed out, the PvE sucked, and unless you could keep yourself motivated with the promise of RvR you were pretty much screwed. Interesting tid bit though, my guild from UO was the only guild from UO to be invited into the guild beta testing round... Or at least that's what they told us, I'm not sure if it's true. I guess the rest came from EQ and AC.

[51|RandoM]

daoc still has the best factional(rvr) pvp in the genre. Kind of a shame that is now hogtied to an abominable PvE system. Everybody knew it sucked, but tried to ignore it. Then they added artifact grind, master level grind, and then WoW came out with fairly enjoyable PvE.

Oh, and for the record, I really, really, really liked FF:XI. I think it is a fairly good game that just has a couple very annoying issues that squarenix doesn't care about. The farmers camping NMs/HNMs are one of those issues and another is the winnowing of players as you go past 50th or so. You get to a point there where it can be pretty hard to get a real exp group going, and most classes can't solo at all. The language barrier doesn't help any.

Played all three of them extensively, don't play any of them anymore. I think most of us go through a phase with our first relatively good MMORPG where we play it often, and for months. Eventually we get tired of it, then try another one. The new ones never seem to be able to hold me for more than a few months. I'd still be playing DAoC if it weren't for the PvE grinding they added with the expansion.

[bean19]

51-Random - If Final Fantasy came out with a game that used instances (so your group could move FORWARD without camping to be safe) and so that mobs weren't camped and/or scarce, it would be hugely popular. Okay, to be hugely popular they'd also need to give people a way to level up without absolutely NEEDING a WHM/RDM and a WAR/PAL (not doing subclasses there. . . I mean either or. . . You HAVE to have a healer and a tank. . . makes starting groups rough).

The story-telling and art in that game (as in the series) are just miles ahead of every other MMO out there. One of my ALL-TIME favorite moments in a game was in Final Fantasy. . . the Star Onion Brigade quest series. Very well-scripted and fun.

I really hope that they make another FF MMO that has a much lower time commitment barrier to entry. . . honestly, I think that making the leveling speed super fast is one of the keys to WoW's success. A ton of casual gamers are happy to spend 2 months leveling to the max level and then spend another year with endgame content and playing alts, but those same gamers would not spend a year getting their main to max level.

[kickmybum]

I really hope that they make another FF MMO that has a much lower time commitment barrier to entry. . . honestly, I think that making the leveling speed super fast is one of the keys to WoW's success. A ton of casual gamers are happy to spend 2 months leveling to the max level and then spend another year with endgame content and playing alts, but those same gamers would not spend a year getting their main to max level.

Actually, the reason alot of players leave WOW is because they've maxed level and there's nothing else to do.

[bean19]

kickmybum - This is true, yet they have over 3 million subscribers worldwide.

Check out the chart (http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart1.html). . . the life cycle of a successful MMO is a sharp peak to their maximum subscribers then a many year long plateau at near max subscirbers followed by a slow decline. Evidently people who unsubscribe are replaced by new subscribers or returning subscribers at a faster rate in the early portion of a game's plateau and then slowly the game loses ground (many years slowly).

If I were designing an MMO, I'd worry about getting 3 million players in the door. . . it is ALL about removing as many barriers to entry as humanly possible.

[51|RandoM]

Yeah, it only took me 3 months to get everything out of WoW that was worth my time.

I think you have to balance it out, not too easy and not too hard.

Wow was entirely too easy, at all levels, whereas ff:xi becomes almost a chore after 50th or so. I didn't really mind it being a chore so much as I minded the fact that you could go days without any real character progress outside of tradeskills.

Yep, SOB quest series is great. Almost all of the major quest lines in the game are outstanding. The backstory ties the world together, and you realize there is actually something going on there.

Dang, now I'm missing my tarutaru sam/war.

[Tohoya]

51-Random - If Final Fantasy came out with a game that used instances (so your group could move FORWARD without camping to be safe) and so that mobs weren't camped and/or scarce, it would be hugely popular. Okay, to be hugely popular they'd also need to give people a way to level up without absolutely NEEDING a WHM/RDM and a WAR/PAL (not doing subclasses there. . . I mean either or. . . You HAVE to have a healer and a tank. . . makes starting groups rough).

The story-telling and art in that game (as in the series) are just miles ahead of every other MMO out there. One of my ALL-TIME favorite moments in a game was in Final Fantasy. . . the Star Onion Brigade quest series. Very well-scripted and fun.

I really hope that they make another FF MMO that has a much lower time commitment barrier to entry. . . honestly, I think that making the leveling speed super fast is one of the keys to WoW's success. A ton of casual gamers are happy to spend 2 months leveling to the max level and then spend another year with endgame content and playing alts, but those same gamers would not spend a year getting their main to max level.


I don't think WoW has such incredibly good lack of travel time. It's not quite as bad as FFXI, but travel isn't incredibly fast until you get mounts. In CoH the train would take you almost anywhere you needed to go, and travel powers got you the rest of the way. GW doesn't even need travel powers since you automatically warp to your location.

And I totally agree on the FF MMO. An FF MMO designed like Guild Wars (but with a good story this time, damnit) would own everything.

[Shifteh]

I'm amazed that a game this old continues to do so well when it is pitted against such strong opponents that also cater to the fantasy genre.

Is it really that surprising? Counter-Strike is still, by far, the most popular shooter online, and Starcraft still has a huge following.