For those with Xbox 360 sticker shock - new apparel [Archive]

Triprotic

08-17-2005, 12:04 PM

i'm sorry, but i don't get where there is so much hate about the Xbox360 pricing.

So there is a cheaper version without the hard drive, so what?! it's just like a big memory card anyway, every one will end up getting one. People kepe comparing it to expansions to previous consoles, but they came out in the latter half of those consoles life spans, this is at the begning.

You're all fucking crazy, i'm getting my Xbox360 on day 1, screw you guys :p

(sorry if you're not one of those people)

snubber

08-17-2005, 12:04 PM

Man that didn't take long.

Heretic Machine

08-17-2005, 12:07 PM

So there is a cheaper version without the hard drive, so what?! it's just like a big memory card anyway, every one will end up getting one. People kepe comparing it to expansions to previous consoles, but they came out in the latter half of those consoles life spans, this is at the begning.

First, this post isn't about that. Second, why does it matter when the add-ons come out? They are still just as unappealing to the casual gamer, and again, they make up 90% of the market and are what developers aim to please.

bean19

08-17-2005, 12:16 PM

My problems with no hard-drive for the masses:

1. No backwards compatability w/o hard-drive (so I can't be cheap)
2. Cheaper console will sell more and thus developers are les likely to use the hard-drive functionality.

I'm soooo still buying every system, but I wished they'd launched with a third version that only has the hard-drive and wireless joystick for like $350. I'd like the install base to have like 2 million or more hard-drive owners so that game developers feel safe using it.

Already have a network, so I don't need the wireless adapater. . . and if I did get a wireless network, the hub would almost definitely come with at least 2 adapters. . .

Pex-Corrh

08-17-2005, 12:22 PM

First, this post isn't about that. Second, why does it matter when the add-ons come out? They are still just as unappealing to the casual gamer, and again, they make up 90% of the market and are what developers aim to please.

I don't necessarily think that's true any more. Live and PS2 networking have something like 15% and 5% penetration, but we've got three full time people on our team doing network play. Developers spend a lot of time on features that are significant, even if a large number of people can't use them. Hell, PC gaming has a tradition of pushing for the features a small community has and nobody is tearing that community apart.

As far as the HD goes, MS has been saying since day 1 that no developer could assume the HD would be present. They weren't saying when a machine without a drive would come to market, just that there may be so no game can assume it's going to be there and fail if it's not. So they're offering a lower price point machine for people who want one. What's the big deal with that? Besides, if I removed the HD from my system and left it at a friend's house, I'd be rightly pissed if none of the games I had worked any more. This is a situation that should have been really obvious the moment the system specs were announced.

Besides, all this talk makes it sound like the only reason the 360 had any chance against the PS3 was the Hard Drive, and now without one it has no chance. Didn't somebody say it was all about the games?

kokyunage

08-17-2005, 12:22 PM

So, anyone think that Nintendo could actually do well next generation if they freaking release some games on a timely schedule?

Heretic Machine

08-17-2005, 12:31 PM

So, anyone think that Nintendo could actually do well next generation if they freaking release some games on a timely schedule?

Nintendo's success depends on a few factors. First would be how many people are willing to pay 400+ for a console, which tells us how many people will be buying a PS3 or bundled 360. The second would be how many people buy the unbundled 360. Then we have the issue of what the Revolution actually is. Then how much third party support Nintendo can pull in if the 360 and PS3 get disapointing sales. Lastly, we'll have to see what first party launch games they can offer... The GC's wasn't exactly stellar.

If they can pull a Mario or Zelda out of the hat for launch then I'd say they'll have a lock. A Smash Brothers Revolution would be good too...

EL CABONG

08-17-2005, 12:33 PM

So, anyone think that Nintendo could actually do well next generation if they freaking release some games on a timely schedule?
They be 3rd put their fanboys will keep them in the black,They haven't released games in a timely shcedule since the snes days, so why would they start now?
Don't get me wrong they delay alot but release less crappy/buggy games. Which is not all bad if u don't mind waiting.

Dirty Harry

08-17-2005, 12:34 PM

So, anyone think that Nintendo could actually do well next generation if they freaking release some games on a timely schedule?
Or how about nintendo opening the fucking third party gate?. I love nintendo man, one of my favorite systems. Almost every game i have played on nintendo systems have been very enjoyable. Its not nintendos hardware that disapoints me to be honest. Its their game line up, i want games like resident evil (which have been good the first remake and re4, but i like the remake better :P). Like i played resident evil Codev on dreamcast way before the ps2 but honestly i like the ps2 verison better plus extras but my ps2 is on lease so i might just pick up a ps2 slim line instead of getting it back. If i can get it for 99 dollars canadian am i doing good for used?.

Phades

08-17-2005, 12:37 PM

I don't necessarily think that's true any more. Live and PS2 networking have something like 15% and 5% penetration, but we've got three full time people on our team doing network play. Developers spend a lot of time on features that are significant, even if a large number of people can't use them. Hell, PC gaming has a tradition of pushing for the features a small community has and nobody is tearing that community apart.

As far as the HD goes, MS has been saying since day 1 that no developer could assume the HD would be present. They weren't saying when a machine without a drive would come to market, just that there may be so no game can assume it's going to be there and fail if it's not. So they're offering a lower price point machine for people who want one. What's the big deal with that? Besides, if I removed the HD from my system and left it at a friend's house, I'd be rightly pissed if none of the games I had worked any more. This is a situation that should have been really obvious the moment the system specs were announced.

Besides, all this talk makes it sound like the only reason the 360 had any chance against the PS3 was the Hard Drive, and now without one it has no chance. Didn't somebody say it was all about the games?

Excellent post. I 100% agree with you. I noticed that too. It's like everyone seems to think that the only feature the Xbox360 had going for it was the hard drive. You're also absolutely right about the comparison on market penetration for this versus Xbox Live. In fact, since the hard drive will be available since day 1, this will probably have an even higher market penetration. That's part of what makes the comparison to the PS2's hard drive unfair. First off, the PS2's hard drive came out WAY after the PS2 and was never sold seperately from FFXI. So to the average joe, that probably made it look like that was the only reason to get it (which is pretty much was). Secondly, this is actually being bundled with some of the systems. It's a much more prominent feature of the system than the PS2's ever was. Lastly, the PS2 was shortly redesigned so that it couldn't even take the hard drive, assuring that it would never be a significant part of the PS2.

Heretic Machine

08-17-2005, 12:42 PM

Oh, and is anyone else a little confused by the whole $100 GBA Micro thing...? I mean, I could buy an SP for $100. I could buy a friggin DS for $130 (if I didn't already have one). Both of these seem superior on several levels, not the least of which is the clam-shell designs which protect their screens.

Maybe I just don't appreciate the value of a handheld too small to play... <.<

EL CABONG

08-17-2005, 12:45 PM

bapenguin

08-17-2005, 12:46 PM

bean19

08-17-2005, 12:49 PM

Perigon - Bit off topic?

I agree with you though. It hink the GBA Micro is just kyitch. They aren't trying to expand their market with it, and will probably not produce many more of them than analysts expect to sell. It's a teeny-tiny system for a teeny-tiny market.

zangster

08-17-2005, 12:56 PM

The wit of that t-shirt slays me. Check and mate good sirs.

lowlevel

08-17-2005, 01:42 PM

The wit of that t-shirt slays me. Check and mate good sirs.

Hehe ... your response is "several orders of magnitude" funnier than the shirt.

EGO

08-17-2005, 01:44 PM

Does ANYBODY remember the price points of consoles historically?

They're always in the $300+ range.
Even the 2600 and all mighty Playstation were in that range!

There's no "sticker shock" unless people are just getting into this "game thing". In which case, go back to pinning away for a GeForce 7800 at $400+ or whatever new thing you have to buy for your PC to "keep up". :p

Heretic Machine

08-17-2005, 01:46 PM

There's no "sticker shock" unless people are just getting into this "game thing". In which case, go back to pinning away for a GeForce 7800 at $400+ or whatever new thing you have to buy for your PC to "keep up".

$400 =/= $300

And the cost of "keeping up" in the PC world is WAY over exagerated.

Mason

08-17-2005, 01:52 PM

Were people honestly expecting the XBox360 would be like $299 with a hard drive?

This bundling makes pretty good sense to me. If you're going to get on Live, then you will get all the benefits of having the hard drive. If you have no desire to get on Live, then the HD is nothing more than a really expensive memory card (developers didn't seem to bother with cacheing resources for faster load times much on the XBox, so it is silly to expect them to start now).

And no mention is made of memory card prices for no-drive 360s (359s?). If they're in the $50 range, the value of going with the cheaper system is diminished even more. From the looks of things, if there's a chance you'll upgrade to a HD display, or start a Live subscription, you're way better off going with the 360, since the 359's low price is way offset by the lack of accessories.

Kefkataran

08-17-2005, 01:52 PM

You're all fucking crazy, i'm getting my Xbox360 on day 1, screw you guys

You're fucking crazy, I'm saving $100+ by buying it later when there will likely be a good library of games for a reasonable price, screw you!

Triprotic

08-17-2005, 02:08 PM

You're fucking crazy, I'm saving $100+ by buying it later when there will likely be a good library of games for a reasonable price, screw you!

yea but i don't have a girlfriend and earn too much money, what else do you expect me to do?

KDups

08-17-2005, 02:10 PM

And no mention is made of memory card prices for no-drive 360s (359s?).

• Faceplate ($19.99, 19.99 Euros, 14.99 GBP)
• Hard Drive (20 GB) ($99.99, 99.99 Euros, 69.99 GBP)
• Memory Unit (64 MB) ($39.99, 34.99 Euros, 22.99 GBP)
• Wireless Networking Adapter ($99.99, 79.99 Euros, 59.99 GBP)
• Wireless Controller ($49.99, 44.99 Euros, 32.99 GBP)
• Play and Charge Kit ($19.99, 19.99 Euros, 14.99 GBP)
• Rechargeable Battery Pack ($11.99, 14.99 Euros, 9.99 GBP)
• Controller ($39.99, 34.99 Euros, 24.99 GBP)
• Headset ($19.99, 19.99 Euros, 14.99 GBP)
• Universal Media Remote ($29.99, 29.99 Euros, 19.99 GBP)
• Component HD AV Cable ($39.99, 29.99 Euros, 19.99 GBP)
• S-Video AV Cable (US) ($29.99)
• SCART AV Cable (Europe) (24.99 Euros, 17.99 GBP)
• VGA HD AV Cable ($39.99, 29.99 Euros, 19.99 GBP)

If you look at the $400 package over the $300 you're getting a HD ($99), memory card ($40), wireless controller ($50), media remote ($30), and a headset ($20). That's $240 worth of stuff for an extra $100.

I'm not saying I'm totally thrilled with the whole thing (fucking nickel and dime us why don't you), but honestly if you're a moderately savy buyer you're going to go for the $400 package. Confusing as all hell to the average Joe though.

Maskatron

08-17-2005, 02:33 PM

I was already planning to wait on the 360, but today's announcement just sealed the deal. Does anyone remember how long it took for the original Xbox to go down in price $100, like 6 months I think? That's when I bought the first one. I have a backlog of games to play through anyway before I can think about the next generation.

Heretic Machine

08-17-2005, 02:39 PM

If you look at the $400 package over the $300 you're getting a HD ($99), memory card ($40), wireless controller ($50), media remote ($30), and a headset ($20). That's $240 worth of stuff for an extra $100.

No, if you don't buy the $400 package they will sell you the stuff that it's in it at prices that are set the way they are because they decided they wanted to sell $400 bundles. It's not "worth" $240.

rein

08-17-2005, 02:51 PM

I'm not saying I'm totally thrilled with the whole thing (fucking nickel and dime us why don't you), but honestly if you're a moderately savy buyer you're going to go for the $400 package. Confusing as all hell to the average Joe though.

This is where I have the problem with it. I already expected a $400 price point. I have a bigger problem with the $300 system. It causes confusion to the casual consumer and is likely to cause some to wait and see what package is going to be best for them. Yea, we can all see the value in the $399.99 package but most parents will not. They will only ask one thing, does it come with a game?

Pex-Corrh may be correct and it is great that they have 3 people working on network play but my customers don't care. What they want is simplicity and value. With this pricing scheme they are not going to get either.

Pex-Corrh, are you guys working on an Xbox 360 Live game? I am curious how it is going to handle hard drive vs non hard drive systems on live. <-- not being a smart ass.. ..I really want to know if there will be a difference in the way it will be handled. Or, if there will be Live available for the non hard drive version.

Kagger

08-17-2005, 02:55 PM

rein

08-17-2005, 02:56 PM

Doesn't the base system come with a controller?

yes, a wired version.

mkelehan

08-17-2005, 03:01 PM

A Smash Brothers Revolution would be good too...

...and already announced for launch. Smash Bros. Online. I don't see a situation in which I'll go a day without playing it.

Draft

08-17-2005, 03:39 PM

Were people honestly expecting the XBox360 would be like $299 with a hard drive?The price is not the problem. The demotion of the Hard Drive from integral system component to someplace to store Velocity Girl's phone number is the problem.

Pex-Corrh

08-17-2005, 03:49 PM

Pex-Corrh, are you guys working on an Xbox 360 Live game? I am curious how it is going to handle hard drive vs non hard drive systems on live. <-- not being a smart ass.. ..I really want to know if there will be a difference in the way it will be handled. Or, if there will be Live available for the non hard drive version.

No, I'm not working on 360 right now. How would I handle it, though? Not sure. Probably limit downloadable content to people who had a HD, but it's already been announced that people can use a memory card if they want to get on Live!. I could also see using the HD if available to improve loading performance. As a developer, I have no problem exposing extra functionality to HD owners, but I'd make sure core features were available to people w/o them.

The Major Nelson (http://www.majornelson.com/ ) podcast today explains some stuff if you're interested.

askheaves

08-17-2005, 03:54 PM

I think my problem lies in charging $100 for a 20Gig harddrive when I can buy a 300Gig harddrive for $100.

How user swappable will this thing be? I think I can shop around better.

Kelegacy

08-17-2005, 03:56 PM

yea but i don't have a girlfriend and earn too much money, what else do you expect me to do?

Buy a girlfriend?

Heretic Machine

08-17-2005, 03:59 PM

...and already announced for launch. Smash Bros. Online. I don't see a situation in which I'll go a day without playing it.

Shiiiit... Viva la Revolution then, mofos.

MasterEvilAce

08-17-2005, 04:05 PM

So... in a way Sony and Microsoft may destroy themselves, and the only one left standing is Nintendo... because even if they wanna do what the rest of the world doesn't want... They still know what they want, and in the end that's what wins.

Zeal

08-17-2005, 04:09 PM

http://www.lucasarts.com/products/grim/salvadore.jpg

"VIVA LA REVOLUTIONNNNN!"

bapenguin

08-17-2005, 04:09 PM

I think my problem lies in charging $100 for a 20Gig harddrive when I can buy a 300Gig harddrive for $100.

How user swappable will this thing be? I think I can shop around better.

a 2.5 inch 20 gig hard drive (OEM) sells for 67 dollars on Newegg. And thats' the 4200 RPM version, not sure how much a 5200 RPM version is.

The drives on the 360 are 2.5" and most likely hot swappable...which may be they are serial ATA based...making it even more expensive.

Reanimated

08-17-2005, 04:33 PM

J. Allard sits on a throne of lies.

http://throneoflies.ytmnd.com/

thecrazyd

08-17-2005, 04:53 PM

...and already announced for launch. Smash Bros. Online. I don't see a situation in which I'll go a day without playing it.
I can't imagine playing Smash Bros online. It is really a party game, and most of the fun comes from playing with people next to you. It least, in my opinion.

ackbrack

08-17-2005, 04:53 PM

Does ANYBODY remember the price points of consoles historically?

They're always in the $300+ range.
Even the 2600 and all mighty Playstation were in that range!

This is incorrect; up until the Playstation, the majority of consoles launched at $199. The 2600 launched, in 1977, for this price, as has every Nintendo console. I didn't check out the launch prices of all the other major consoles, but it looks like the first one to break the $199 launch price was the Saturn, which went for $399. The Playstation went for $299, and, apart from Nintendo's consoles, launch prices have been rising ever since.

http://www.atarimuseum.com/videogames/consoles/2600menu/2600menu.htm
http://www.cyberiapc.com/vgg/

Heretic Machine

08-17-2005, 04:57 PM

I can't imagine playing Smash Bros online. It is really a party game, and most of the fun comes from playing with people next to you. It least, in my opinion.

I play it single player more than anything else, with all the bots up on the highest level.... Still not as fun as human players, but I tend to pwn them to the point that they don't want to play anymore so the bots ar ebetter in the long run. I'm really not very good at most games... but Smash Brothers and Halo just click with me in a way I can't explain.

Lexicon

08-17-2005, 05:16 PM

a 2.5 inch 20 gig hard drive (OEM) sells for 67 dollars on Newegg. And thats' the 4200 RPM version, not sure how much a 5200 RPM version is.

The drives on the 360 are 2.5" and most likely hot swappable...which may be they are serial ATA based...making it even more expensive.

Or you could get an 80GB 2.5" 5400RPM 8MB cache notebook HD from newegg for $99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822152503

DriveALW

08-17-2005, 07:46 PM

The price is not the problem. The demotion of the Hard Drive from integral system component to someplace to store Velocity Girl's phone number is the problem.

That is very funny and a *great* reference to that stupid presentation.

BigJonno

08-18-2005, 04:02 AM

Non-essential, overpriced peripheral that was available from day one that eventually became a completely essential piece of kit? Playstation memory cards.

I wasn't on the net at the time, but I'm sure people at the time were moaning that they could buy X amount of storage for the same price.

Testcase

08-18-2005, 09:50 AM

Soooo... the idea is I pay money.. for a shirt about how.. I don't want to pay money...?

EBEmplyeeEnigma

09-09-2005, 08:16 PM

The price is worth it for the hard drive alone! You have to look at it this way. This system is the "bundle", the core is the rock bottom system so broke people can still get the upgraded system. Its not the system they want to release to everyone. We have over 100 pre orders already and all I can say is we can no longer gareentee it day 1. NOONE has pre ordered the core set yet. Like I said you have to realize that the core is the one for those of you that refuse or cant spend 400 for the system. They are giving that option. the original Xbox was 300 how can u expect the new one to be the same price?
i'm sorry, but i don't get where there is so much hate about the Xbox360 pricing.

So there is a cheaper version without the hard drive, so what?! it's just like a big memory card anyway, every one will end up getting one. People kepe comparing it to expansions to previous consoles, but they came out in the latter half of those consoles life spans, this is at the begning.

You're all fucking crazy, i'm getting my Xbox360 on day 1, screw you guys :p

(sorry if you're not one of those people)

you have to have the Hard Drive to use the backwards compatablity!

Twigz'N'Berries

09-09-2005, 09:59 PM

The price is worth it for the hard drive alone! You have to look at it this way. This system is the "bundle", the core is the rock bottom system so broke people can still get the upgraded system. Its not the system they want to release to everyone. We have over 100 pre orders already and all I can say is we can no longer gareentee it day 1. NOONE has pre ordered the core set yet. Like I said you have to realize that the core is the one for those of you that refuse or cant spend 400 for the system. They are giving that option. the original Xbox was 300 how can u expect the new one to be the same price?
you have to have the Hard Drive to use the backwards compatablity!
Yup. But developers traditionally cater to the lowest common denominator and that will be the core. Second, no BC without the HD. Third, probably no MMOs without the HD.
The core system is damaging in the fact that my games that would have been better if a HD was standard, will now be designed at the level of the core. But, what lasting impact this has is yet to be seen. Oh, and there is that whole HD-DVD thing that is looming.

How are the pre-sales numbers looking at all EBs and Gamestops?

EBEmplyeeEnigma

09-10-2005, 07:40 PM

I know in our mall which has 2 eb games and a gamesstop we have 200+ between our two stores. Not sure how games stops doin.

Twigz'N'Berries

09-10-2005, 08:45 PM

Damn.
So, despite all of the naysayers on this website, it looks like the 360 will have no problem selling out when it launches. Gamestops are the same. They (the ones I've talked to) have stated that there is no chance that I'd get a first round pre-order if I haven't pre-ordered already. They suggested I drink plenty of Moutain Dew.

Now the hard question:
When do you think the 360 is coming out? Will the games come out before the system?