XBox 360 Price Confirmed, 2 Variations and Pricepoints

[Borys]

Seems like the rumours about 2 different 360 stock keeping units were true. Los Angeles Times brings this news:

Microsoft Corp. said its next-generation Xbox 360 game console would cost $299 to $399 when the device is launched this holiday season.

The $299 version will come with a wired controller, but will not have the 20-gigabyte hard-disc drive, wireless controller, headset, Ethernet cable and wireless television remote control included in the $399 version.Read the short story here (http://www.latimes.com/business/custom/cotown/la-fi-rup17.2aug17,1,331393.story?coll=la-headlines-business-enter&ctrack=1&cset=true).

Edit: IGN is the first to confirm this leak.

August 17, 2005
Today at the Games Convention in Leipzig, Germany, Microsoft unveiled the price of their upcoming next-generation system.

The new 'box will come in two flavors, a core and a fully-loaded model, and will carry two separate price points.

Read more at xbox360.ign.com (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/642/642656p1.html).

Edit: And finally GameSpot (http://www.gamespot.com) confirms everything.

The 360 gets two spins: the $299 "Core System," and the $399 fully-loaded package with 20GB hard drive, wireless controller and headset, HD cables, and remote control.

Here's the interesting part from GS's article (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/08/17/news_6131245.html) on 360's accessories pricing:
• Faceplate ($19.99, 19.99 Euros, 14.99 GBP)
• Hard Drive (20 GB) ($99.99, 99.99 Euros, 69.99 GBP)
• Memory Unit (64 MB) ($39.99, 34.99 Euros, 22.99 GBP)
• Wireless Networking Adapter ($99.99, 79.99 Euros, 59.99 GBP)
• Wireless Controller ($49.99, 44.99 Euros, 32.99 GBP)
• Play and Charge Kit ($19.99, 19.99 Euros, 14.99 GBP)
• Rechargeable Battery Pack ($11.99, 14.99 Euros, 9.99 GBP)
• Controller ($39.99, 34.99 Euros, 24.99 GBP)
• Headset ($19.99, 19.99 Euros, 14.99 GBP)
• Universal Media Remote ($29.99, 29.99 Euros, 19.99 GBP)
• Component HD AV Cable ($39.99, 29.99 Euros, 19.99 GBP)
• S-Video AV Cable (US) ($29.99)
• SCART AV Cable (Europe) (24.99 Euros, 17.99 GBP)
• VGA HD AV Cable ($39.99, 29.99 Euros, 19.99 GBP)

ScoobyDoo's voice: Ruh-roh.

[jeffool]

Gonna piggy back this post to not crowd up the front page with the press release -bapenguin

LEIPZIG, Germany — Aug. 17, 2005 — Ending weeks of speculation about which upcoming video game platform will give gamers the most bang for their buck, today at the German Games Convention, Microsoft Corp. revealed that consumers can get their hands on Xbox 360™ — the most powerful and feature-packed next-generation video game and entertainment system — for as little as $299.99 U.S./€299.99/£209.99 starting this holiday season. For gamers who want to experience the ultimate digital entertainment thrill ride, Microsoft also announced a model with hundreds of dollars worth of accessories for $399.99 U.S./€399.99/£279.99, giving consumers the definitive entertainment experience at an unbelievable value right out of the box.
The Xbox 360 and Xbox 360 Core System — along with an impressive lineup of high-definition game titles from the world’s best publishers and developers — will make their debut in North America, Europe and Japan in time for this Christmas holiday, several months ahead of the competition. Although details for the Japan launch will be addressed at the Tokyo Game Show in September, the unprecedented three-region launch signifies an industry first. The Xbox 360 platform will deliver the most powerful console, the best games, the next generation of the Xbox Live® service, and amazing digital entertainment experiences never seen in console entertainment.
“The sheer entertainment value of Xbox 360 cannot be overstated,” said Robbie Bach, chief Xbox officer for Microsoft. “While the system has the muscle to power awe-inspiring graphics, audio and online play, it’s also got the intelligence to serve as a one-of-a-kind entertainment device that plays CDs, DVDs, MP3s and digital content from an array of devices, including portable music players and digital cameras.”
With its built-in Ethernet port and free Silver level of service right out of the box, Xbox 360 also connects players to Xbox Live, the premier global online console games and entertainment network. With Xbox Live, gamers can chat with friends online, build and share gamer profiles, send and receive text and voice messages, and access Xbox Live Marketplace for new content such as game demos, trailers and casual games from Xbox Live Arcade. Subscribers to the Gold level of service will also enjoy access to online multiplayer gaming in their favorite games, as well as great promotional programs such as worldwide tournaments, the chance to play online with their favorite celebrities, and opportunities to win big prizes.

jeffool:
Raaar! Angry noises! ANGRY NOISES!

Yeah, I now offiically won't be an early adopter. I'm waiting.

[Tricky Thumb]

Oh I knew when the games were announced I'd be waiting... this only makes me feel much better about it.

[Liquidize105]

So basically it costs 399.

[Bushido]

and so history repeats itself ....

[Morratut]

Here is the 2nd part of the article for people who don't like registration like me...

Sony Corp., which said it would launch PlayStation 3 in the spring, has not released a price for its new console.

"This will put pressure on Sony come holiday of 2007 because by then Microsoft will cut their premium price to $299 or below, while the PS3 will still be north of $399," said P.J. McNealey, an analyst at American Technology Research. Meanwhile, Nintendo Co. cut $20 off the price of its Dual Screen hand-held console to $129.99.

[Morratut]

I have to admit i'm dissapointed in MS not putting a HD in all of their xboxs. I do however think that people will automatically go for the package with all the extras, especially current Xbox owners.

I know i am. :D

[El Gato]

This'll probably mean it'll be £400 over here for the full version. I was hoping for (well) under £300 to be honest.

I'm still sold, just because of Xbox Live, to tell the truth.

Anyone know if the headset is wireless?

[Borys]

Here is the 2nd part of the article for people who don't like registration like me...

Sony Corp., which said it would launch PlayStation 3 in the spring, has not released a price for its new console.

"This will put pressure on Sony come holiday of 2007 because by then Microsoft will cut their premium price to $299 or below, while the PS3 will still be north of $399," said P.J. McNealey, an analyst at American Technology Research. Meanwhile, Nintendo Co. cut $20 off the price of its Dual Screen hand-held console to $129.99.

You don't need registration, just click on the link and read the rest of the story.

[Tricky Thumb]

Here is the 2nd part of the article for people who don't like registration like me...

Sony Corp., which said it would launch PlayStation 3 in the spring, has not released a price for its new console.

"This will put pressure on Sony come holiday of 2007 because by then Microsoft will cut their premium price to $299 or below, while the PS3 will still be north of $399," said P.J. McNealey, an analyst at American Technology Research. Meanwhile, Nintendo Co. cut $20 off the price of its Dual Screen hand-held console to $129.99.


Wow, I wasn't aware that P.J. McNealey (Which sounds like some sort of fake name, by the way) was so keen on what Sony's plans are.

I really can't stand Analysts.

[Liquidize105]

Meanwhile, Nintendo Co. cut $20 off the price of its Dual Screen hand-held console to $129.99.

Nintendo for teh win!

[baz]

This'll probably mean it'll be £400 over here for the full version.

I'm still thinking £300 for the full.. at least I'm hoping that.

[Morratut]

Yeah i feel the same El Gato. Yes i'm a bit dissapointed that it's probably going to be £399 in the UK too but i don't care that much to not buy it.

I want the Xbox for the enhanced version of Xbox live and i'm intrested in all these extra media features when combined with a pc.

I'm a Xbox fan but at this moment in time i'm still not seeing a game for me personally that will replace Halo2. I was initially thinking PD0 but i've heard that you can't jump(replaced with a roll) in that game. So basically all the mp levels will have slopes like in PD and GoldenEye.Which was great for their times but i want to be able jump if need be. :(

Currently i can see me playing Halo2 on my Xbox360. Which is crazy because in my mind i will still be happy to do that until something else comes along.

[Vandenh]

If true... very stupid of MS not to include a HD. Guess the "next" gen is really a step backwards in some ways... can you imagine running Oblivion on the non HD model?

[El Gato]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is still a 'leak' isn't it?

Since MS have been saying, all along, that the base will have a HD with the possibility of a future version without, this is a bit of a 180 (pardon the pun).

[Morratut]

Yes i think it is also silly of MS not to have the HD in all 360s.

I do however believe that MS will still put in a lot of extras/incentives for the HD so it i bet it will be very popular.

[Borys]

If true... very stupid of MS not to include a HD. Guess the "next" gen is really a step backwards in some ways... can you imagine running Oblivion on the non HD model?

Vandenh...
HDD isn't required for gaming on 360, PERIOD.
Devs aren't building ANY games (including Oblivion, ask kathode!) around HDD. It's only used for caching. You'll maybe get faster load-times on the HD version but the whole experience will be the same - as you won't miss anything, same features, same game.

Games are coded with no HD in mind.

You want to save your game? Sure, pop in a HD, memory card or even a PSP.
360's HD is obsolete.

You want custom soundtracks? Sure, connect your PC and point to the My Music folder. Why would you want to copy a part of your 80 GB music collection to a small-ass 20 GB HD ?
Again - 360's HD is obsolete.

Maybe they'll allow to save on your PC hard-drive but that's still undecided (and allows for much-o-hacking).

This isn't exactly a step forward - more like backwards because Xbox 1 users DIDN'T need to buy any memory cards.

Why you'll NEED the HD for 360:

- Backwards Compatibility

That's it. Everything else (music, dl'd content, even LIVE!) will be saved to/ used by MC if no HD is present.

BTW MMORPGs are still undecided. Maybe they will find a way to work it out without a HDD (read: maybe the saved data will fit on a 64MB MC).

[Vandenh]

>Devs aren't building ANY games (including Oblivion, ask kathode!) around HDD. It's only used for caching.

I know.. ok.. let me rephrase that remark. Can you imagine playing Oblivion *without* HD caching???

[Borys]

>Devs aren't building ANY games (including Oblivion, ask kathode!) around HDD. It's only used for caching.

I know.. ok.. let me rephrase that remark. Can you imagine playing Oblivion *without* HD caching???

Dunno man, that won't be my problem (PC version).

But yes - I can imagine it - with a slight more loading, longer pauses but way more quiet (MC data transfer makes no noise).

Hell, I couldn't imagine a MMORPG without a HDD and yet Everquest MMORPG on PS2 runs without it.

[snubber]

Not having HDD standard is what internet denizens from 2001 called "t3h gay". As others have noted, no developer will really design their game to use one, since they can't count on it being there. Farewell, caching...we hardly knew you!

[bapenguin]

Today we'll find out all the details officially. Honestly...this shouldn't surprise anyone. The only thing that shocks me is the wired controller.

[Borys]

This might not be true after all. MS conference is on right now. I think I need to take a long brake from EA.com...

[Reanimated]

Major Nelson called bullshit on this.

The press conference will reveal the REAL price. Maybe it would have been best to have waited for word from the horses mouth?

[Borys]

You are full of bullshit as always, R. Taking piss and crap from TeamXbox for granted.

First:

Originally Posted by hasanbilal
This just in from Major Nelson on skype:

The Cheapest price for Xbox will have a 20 GB HD and a wireless controller. You cant expect to log onto Xbox Live without a hard drive. Xbox Live is one of the pivotal features of the Xbox 360 console. Also we announced the wireless controller will be standard as the wired controller that you saw in pictures is used for security purposes in gaming conventions and public viewing. LA Times reporting is wrong, I will post about this on my blog later on in the day.

Then:


Quote:
Originally Posted by hasanbilal
For the record: I do have Major Nelson but he isnt online on skype, My point to prove is here is that you take every unofficial news from an indirect source at face value. Major Nelson didnt get asked by me and i didnt ask him, hes probably preparing for the German Convenction which is over an hour away from now.

The Lesson we learnt today is to wait for the official word rather than a newsource which doesnt qoute any MS representative, no links were provided and only a word of an analyst were given.

Sorry to get your hopes up but I hope you learnt a lesson: WAIT FOR THE OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT rather than trust indirect sources with no official sources

So who do I believe more?

Some 11-yr old idiot lying that Major Nelson TALKED to him on Skype or a large print magazine saying it's official?

[Reanimated]

How about believing Microsoft in a few hours?



Evil Avatar.com - The internet's MOST reliable source for UNRELIABLE news.

[51|RandoM]

eh, clicking on that link only takes me to a registration page. :-)

[Borys]

Reanimated:

Well, technically you are right (wait for the PR) while essentialy I am right (it's already out but in other format).

Truce.

51|Random:

Sorry, but we can't post whole stories (as copied word-for-word) here. I had to cut something and it didn't ask me for registration.

[*Legion*]

You are full of bullshit as always, R. Taking piss and crap from TeamXbox for granted.

So who do I believe more?

Some 11-yr old idiot lying that Major Nelson TALKED to him on Skype or a large print magazine saying it's official?

Boy will you look dumb is the "11-yr old idiot" is right.

Who should you believe? Considering that the LA Times is saying something that contradicts what MS has specifically claimed, I would tell you to put your money on the so-called 11-year old.

[Borys]

I'll never come back here again if I screwed up this newspost, that I can promise.

[baz]

I'll never come back here again if I screwed up this newspost, that I can promise.

I hope thats sarcasm? Who cares if you screw up a newspost, you reported a LA Times article... if its wrong its their fault.

[Morratut]

Yeah don't leave Borys. EvAv needs you to counter all the rampant Xbox fanboys like me :D

[Reanimated]

I'll never come back here again if I screwed up this newspost, that I can promise.




Oh man, you're fucked. I like you, so I won't hold you to that.

[Grimgrock]

Is this conference being documented online somewhere? Perhaps a link?

[fitbabits]

I'll never come back here again if I screwed up this newspost, that I can promise.

Dinnae go, Borys! Puh-LEEZE!

[Kelegacy]

Dinnae go, Borys! Puh-LEEZE!

Without Borys, the EvAv universe would be thrown out of balance, corrupting the frail equilibrium of this place.

I hope your newspost is correct, sir. I have faith in you. (even though I think a 299 bare-bones Xbox is fucked up--I thought the HD would be integral to this generation, besides serving as a memory card/Xbox live tool)

[peeweejd]

I'm calling bullshit on this one.

1. MS said 'top selling' games will be backwards compatible. This came from MS.

2. MS said that the hard disk will be used to deliver patches that make the xbox games compatible with teh xbox360. MS has also asaid this.

If there is no hard drive on the default unit, then there is no backwards compatibility. And when Suzy the soccer mom buys a 360 for her sont Tommy and she buys the one with no hard drive, MS will be liars.

Now 2 years down the line when people wanna save money and dont have a xbox library to play, then I can see shipping with no hard drive...

MS has also touted the wireless controllers. I think they will be standard. I bet their will be a 'power' bundle though that contains a controller charger adaptor, remote control and xbox lilve headset... for $100 they better throw in a second controller too though...

[Borys]

Whoa, thanks for the support guys!

I'm updating the story as I write here and it looks like I'm not going anywhere :)

Reanimated, respect +100!

[fitbabits]

Without Borys, the EvAv universe would be thrown out of balance, corrupting the frail equilibrium of this place.

You're exactly right, Kelegacy! My visits to the bathroom will be more or less meaningless without Borys...

[bapenguin]

Grrr....kinda off topic...but i really hate this kind of (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/xbox-360-to-sell-for-more-than-450-117706.php) headline whoring.

[fitbabits]

Grrr....kinda off topic...but i really hate this kind of (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/xbox-360-to-sell-for-more-than-450-117706.php) headline whoring.

Going further off topic for a while, I fucking hate Kotaku!

Anyway, please tell me the rumors about two price points for the 360 are false. If this is the case, then it's the first major mistake that Microsoft will have made with the 360, and a potentially damaging one.

[bapenguin]

Going further off topic for a while, I fucking hate Kotaku!

Anyway, please tell me the rumors about two price points for the 360 are false. If this is the case, then it's the first major mistake that Microsoft will have made with the 360, and a potentially damaging one.

Looks to be true. I wish they would have just stuck with the 399 package. They basically have free reign for 6-9 months until the PS3 launches, so they can have whatever price they want just to try to get early adopters. Then when the PS3 launches,drop to the 299. Splitting the market is a bad idea.

[Borys]

Looks to be true. I wish they would have just stuck with the 399 package. They basically have free reign for 6-9 months until the PS3 launches, so they can have whatever price they want just to try to get early adopters. Then when the PS3 launches,drop to the 299. Splitting the market is a bad idea.

Not only that but they gave Sony free hand in pricing PS3. $399 for a PS3 is a lock-on at this time. Sony can "blame" it on Blu-Ray media and the whole "PS3 is faster" idea.
In fact Sony won't feel the heat for launching a $400 console because MS did it first.

2 different SKUs isn't a very good idea and never was.

[Reanimated]

It would seem that MS has contradicted what they themselves said at E3.

Congrats to them! I'm officially off the train. I don't mind the price, but don't lie to me and change your story later.

Farewell MS, the games industry hardly knew ye.

[doubtingthomas]

Wow. I was ALL about getting this but now I don't know. If the $399 package included a Gold Live subscription, or another controller, or at least a game I'd feel better. But $399 for package, (following prices are my guesses) $50 for Live subscription so I can actually play with people online, $50 for an extra controller, $50 for warranty (and I am most definitely getting a warranty and taking that hardware back in two years considering the problems I and others have had with the original Xbox hardware) comes to $550, along with 10% sales tax here in TN has brought me to roughly $600, and I don't even have one of their $60 games to play yet. Damn.

Maybe I will upgrade my PC...............

[MrMeatshake]

I'm a Xbox fan but at this moment in time i'm still not seeing a game for me personally that will replace Halo2.

Currently i can see me playing Halo2 on my Xbox360. Which is crazy because in my mind i will still be happy to do that until something else comes along.

yeah, i want something 2 displace halo2 before i get on this bandwaggon (i'm no *** fanboi, but halo 2 is da filthy (http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/games/halo2.html), and i doubt anything on the PS3 will come close for a good while).

[crashedout]

I was all set to plop down my money to pre-order, but two SKU's? No way. Every "optional" peripherial in console history has failed, why should I pay extra for something that very few are going to code for? Shoulda just realeased the higher priced one. There goes your season, hello Dreamcast 2.

[fitbabits]

This is a BAD IDEA, Microsoft. I can't believe that any focus groups they've dealt with have told them otherwise... I'm annoyed at now having to pay a premium price for all the things that were promised "out of the box".

Not only that, but this gives Kutaragi & Sony a fuckload of ammunition...

[bapenguin]

100 bucks for the wireless network adapter. WTF is Microsoft Smoking.

[Paranoia]

Major Nelson confirms the price & package to be the real deal.

[bapenguin]

It's funny...

All the analysts are going, "this is great"

All the gamers are going, "this sucks bigtime"

[fitbabits]

It's funny...

All the analysts are going, "this is great"

All the gamers are going, "this sucks bigtime"

Which is exactly why analysts are a bunch of overpaid and over-appreciated tits.

I'm angry right now...

[Bydo_Empire]

I don't know, it makes sense to me. $400 bucks is a lot of cash, and might tip the scales for a lot of consumers towards "wait on the 360 until the price comes down." $299 is much easier to swallow, imho. Games aren't designed to require the HD anyways, and I can live without wireless (or simply buy it later for a 2nd controller). If I end up getting a 360 at launch, I'll probably save the hundred bucks and use the money to buy a game or two. If true, I don't think this move hurts MS at all.

[kokyunage]

Does the Xbox360 have a NIC in it or is the wireless adapter required for any connectivity?

Because if it has a normal NIC in it I'm sure plenty of current Xbox users already have a network cable near their entertainment center for current generation Xbox's.

[Inverarity]

Leaving aside the issue of whether the optional hard drive is a good or bad idea (I'm indifferent), I'd like to point out that the $399 system is - at least judging by the price list given - a pretty good deal for home-theater gamers. The remote, HD cables, wireless headset, etc. are all things I'd have had to buy anyway.

[Atorak]

Doesn't sound that bad to me. I'll be picking one up, woo hoo!

[DaedalusFolly]

Going further off topic for a while, I fucking hate Kotaku!

Why the hate?

[Morratut]

I'm assuming that my gold membership which i pay for will easily be transferred to the 360?:rolleyes:

Happy with £279 price though. Saves a bit of room for a game :)

I'm happy with this news. I don't need wireless access for the xbox with my router right next to my tv cabinet.

[Xaerin]

£70 for a 20gb HD?! All that extra junk for the "full" version seems way overpriced.

[farley2k]

I am glad I had decided to wait. By waiting a year I know the 360 will drop in price to compete with the release of the PS3.



On a side note does this now put MS in the same catagory for gamers as Sony? I remember when the specs were tossed around for the PS3 that many gamers said they didn't believe them because Sony was know for lying. Now it appears MS wants a bit of that reputation as well.

[fitbabits]

Why the hate?

Their headlines are far too often misleading and the writing is poor. That's all. I think of them as the National Enquirer of gaming.

[Kelegacy]

I am glad I had decided to wait. By waiting a year I know the 360 will drop in price to compete with the release of the PS3.



On a side note does this now put MS in the same catagory for gamers as Sony? I remember when the specs were tossed around for the PS3 that many gamers said they didn't believe them because Sony was know for lying. Now it appears MS wants a bit of that reputation as well.

Hmm...I was wondering the same thing.

[Inverarity]

£70 for a 20gb HD?! All that extra junk for the "full" version seems way overpriced.

Just the opposite, I think; for me, at least, the $399 package is worth it even without considering the HD. Cables, wireless headset, wireless controller - go out and price those for a current console and you'll likely account for the extra $100 right there.

The cost of buying everything individually is no doubt inflated, but I'm sure the intention is for MS to make extra money from folks who buy the $299 version.

[Morratut]

I can't see anyone buying the £299 version.

[Vandenh]

I guess this is good for MS since they can have a much more agressive price plan now and maybe ultimatly good for consumers since we will have cheaper stuff but in the end bad news for gamers (who could have used a nice HD in ALL 360 machines). Guess games like Blinx (and we are not talking about how good/bad it was) will not be possible any more. What about Full Auto? Wasn't that going to store the complete destoyed world on HD? What about Otogi that saved all destroyed levels on HD? What about the caching of Oblivion? ....

It is all about the gamer my *ss.

If Sony now decide to add a HD.. MS is teh f*cked. Even if PS3 doesn't have it, MS can only compete on price (and maybe Live) having a HD in all machines would have been a serious bonus vs the PS3.... bad move MS, baaaaad move...

[bapenguin]

Right...I have no quarrells with paying 400 bucks for it with all those goodies. I was getting those anyway. It's the fact that they split the market that peeves people off so, and the fact that they removed the HD as STANDARD. Here that MS, fucking STANDARD bitches.

[i aint yer pa]

This is a little Off-Topic, but is there a way to bump articles like this to the top of the page when it gets updated? Serial refreshers like myself seldom scroll down to see older news posts. Something as news-worthy as an update to the Xbox 360 pricing definitely deserves a "bump".

(And I also question the hate thrown at Kotaku. Brian's headlines may often be pure sensationalism but he gets a lot of things right.)

[zyzyx]

I'm happy to pay for the £280 pack, saying this as a gamer for 2 decades and a computer geek. Speaking as an observer in all this; MS are making a big mistake here. This is all far, far too confusing. 2 console packs, different peripherals for different people, different levels of xbl membership. It's all too confusing for the average consumer. They just want to play the damn thing.

[zangster]

Looking at the pricing for the individual components (HD A/V cables, media remote, headset) I might be able buy the $399 model and make some of my money back by selling those on Ebay. Didn't they already say the headset connector is universal, I'll just use my current headset. Funk that noise.

[fitbabits]

Right...I have no quarrells with paying 400 bucks for it with all those goodies. I was getting those anyway. It's the fact that they split the market that peeves people off so, and the fact that they removed the HD as STANDARD. Here that MS, fucking STANDARD bitches.

That's exactly why I'm pissed off. I'm more than willing to pay the $400, but I'm irked that Microsoft have gone back on their word by not making the HD standard.

Another question - does the lack the hard disk on the anaemic version mean that backwards compatability will no longer be an option for those who opt for the cheaper model? My understanding was the the hard drive was required in order to have backwards compatability. Then again, my understanding was based on information from Microsoft...

[Inverarity]

Vandenh,

In the case of Otogi, the presence of each destructible element was probably represented by a single bit in an array in the save file. Can't be that big, probably 30-40KB for everything in the game, a few hundred KB if they have a semi-destroyed state that needed to be recorded.

As for Blinx, reversing time means having to log every player/character action and movement for reversal, but you can keep that in a rolling cache in RAM while the game's running and store a compressed snapshot of that rolling cache when you save the game. Both of those things are made easier with an HD, but I think they're possible regardless.

Caching resources and level data - that's the big problem with not having an HD. Something like Oblivion will probably suffer, you're right about that...

[bapenguin]

This is a little Off-Topic, but is there a way to bump articles like this to the top of the page when it gets updated? Serial refreshers like myself seldom scroll down to see older news posts. Something as news-worthy as an update to the Xbox 360 pricing definitely deserves a "bump".


I wish I knew how....that's why I put up that other post.

[Reanimated]

MS is so totally screwed. I'll wait for the firesale to buy one.

[Vandenh]

"In the case of Otogi, the presence of each destructible element was probably represented by a single bit in an array in the save file etc.. etc..."

Hey don't talk software to me ;) I have been doing it for 20+ years... :)

What I mean is this is next gen... BIGGER stuff... BIGGER ideas... game slike Blinx and Otogi are just the start. With a next gen console AND a HD maybe those ideas could have been expanded by some clever developers. Oh well....
(also I don't want to reserve RAM.. I want to stream to HD without running into some memory card limits.... i want my Fable 2 world to be totally dynamic.. with random generated stuff and .... .... ... *dreams on*)

[kokyunage]

I think this pretty much fucks them with the parents come Christmas time.

Parent: "Is that extra stuff required?"
Salesman: "No, you can purchase them later on if need be"
Parent: "Do games require a hard drive?"
Salesman: "No"
Parent: "Ok, little Jake doesn't need wireless. He's been fine with all our previous corded consoles. I'll take the cheaper one and a game"
Salesman: "Ok, good choice ma'am"

Stores/Salesmen DO NOT have any incentive to push the more expensive package. They make pennies on the complete set. The parents can come back later to buy the accessories which they make more of a margin on. Remember, many clueless parents actually trust the salesman advice in their local mall Gamestop/EB.

Yes, in the end both Microsoft and the stores make more money. However, it screws the consumer. Not to mention it splits the market and ensures the HD will be used for nothing else than caching (game-wise at least).

[farley2k]

I think this pretty much fucks them with the parents come Christmas time.

Parent: "Is that extra stuff required?"
Salesman: "No, you can purchase them later on if need be"
Parent: "Do games require a hard drive?"
Salesman: "No"
Parent: "Ok, little Jake doesn't need wireless. He's been fine with all our previous corded consoles. I'll take the cheaper one and a game"
Salesman: "Ok, good choice ma'am"

Stores/Salesmen DO NOT have any incentive to push the more expensive package. They make pennies on the complete set. The parents can come back later to buy the accessories which they make more of a margin on. Remember, many clueless parents actually trust the salesman advice in their local mall Gamestop/EB.


Good point. Parents will buy the cheapest because they don't really understand gaming so it will be all about price. After all both systems will play all the games.

[Inverarity]

Hey don't talk software to me ;) I have been doing it for 20+ years... :)
*grin* Okay, I humbly bow to my elder - only about 10 years of HW and SW work for me.

What I mean is this is next gen... BIGGER stuff... BIGGER ideas... [...] With a next gen console AND a HD maybe those ideas could have been expanded by some clever developers. Oh well....
Can't argue with you there. I think this generation of hardware has a lot of promise regardless, but you're right that some local mass storage would open up even more avenues to developers. It'll be interesting if someone can deliver the kind of random world you're hoping for and have it work with flash storage...not ideal, certainly, but it's the kind of resource constraint that occasionally brings out the genius in a programmer.

[Borys]

What kokyunage said and also:

which is more profitable for MS?

a) selling the $399 pack or
b) selling the "Core Pack" for $299 + $200 worth of accessories

Hmm?

This is a great idea from the corporate viewpoint but not so good from the hardcore gamer viewpoint. And yes, I said hardcore because mainstream gamer doesn't give two shits about:

a) pixel-shaders (vide PS2)
b) hard-drive (vide PS2)
c) on-line (vide Live userbase, PS2 on-line)

They just want to pop in Madden 2006 and play and hey, "Core Pack" fits the bill nicely. They can buy some additional accessories later on (vide PS2, PS1, GCN, SNES etc.).

Corporations win.

[Reanimated]

Well, the analysts estimates of the cost to make X360 were 375.00 (with the HDD), so MS might actually be turning a profit on the 399 package.

Basically they've thrown the old model out the window.

[MongolHunter]

The £279 price in the UK is very competitive. I think it will go down well over here. Even the £209 for the basic package is an incredibly competitive price for a brand new console when most are launched at £299 minimum for a new consoole.

Personally I can see the first company to release £20 games brand new as standard will win, people will invest in a console if they think they'll get a good deal after for their investment.

[trip1eX]

Well who is going to buy the $299.99 package when you have to buy a $40 memory card on top of it?

If you could use your old controllers, headset and memorycards for the xbox than maybe someone would buy the cheap package. Hell they should let you use your xbox hard drive with your 360.

[Reanimated]

40 for that memory card is ri-fucking-diculous.

I can get a 256MB Pro Duo Memory Stick for that price.

[fitbabits]

Guess this answers my question:

From a CNN/Money (http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/17/commentary/game_over/column_gaming/index.htm?cnn=yes) story.

The hard drive might seem like an expensive luxury to some shoppers, particularly those buying for someone else this holiday season, but for current Xbox gamers, it's a critical piece of equipment. Without a hard drive, the Xbox 360 will not be able to play any games from the current Xbox, including the phenomenally successful "Halo 2".

So for those of us looking to play Halo 2 et all on our Xbox 360, we MUST buy the premium model!

[trip1eX]

Yeah they priced so the $399.99 is really the basic model. But if price is extremely important you can drop down to $299.99. Basically as an analyst said it's so MS can say they launched at $299.99.

[Everlost_MI]

Wasn't the VGA HD AV Cable going to be standard too? In any case, it's cheper than the XVGA box I bought for my Xbox.

[Xaerin]

So for those of us looking to play Halo 2 et all on our Xbox 360, we MUST buy the premium model!

That wouldn't be me, maybe some people don't have the space but I like having my entire console collection in the same place so if I want to play an Xbox game I'll just use the XBox.

£279 for the full package is a great price, especially when you see what they're charging seperately for the extras.
But what they're charging seperately for the extras is insane and most of the stuff is useless. A tv remote? Who wouldn't have one already? If they mean for the dvd playback on the 360 then just use the controller, it's wireless already. An ethernet cable? Well if you're reading this you've already got one and if you had Xbox Live you've got a spare. And as for the 20gb HDD I did a quick search and found an 80 for £34 as opposed to the £70 they're charging. I'm sure it wouldn't take much to make any standard hdd compatible.

But I'd probably still get it anyway.

[score]

Oh man. I'll chime in with everyone else on how they're splitting the market and basically making the hard drive inconsequential.

Imagine if Sony announced next week a HD as standard for the PS3. Now that would be a kick on the baws for Microsoft....(deservedly so though. I mean, what are they thinking?)

[Kelegacy]

Yeah they priced so the $399.99 is really the basic model. But if price is extremely important you can drop down to $299.99. Basically as an analyst said it's so MS can say they launched at $299.99.

If price is an issue or you can barely afford 300 bucks, you shouldnt be buying one in the first place.

[zorper]

Well, considering the weak launch lineup (except Oblivion of course), I guess this xbox fanboy will wait to see what the PS3 is going to do before taking the plunge...

[KNOTE]

We've known for a long time that the HD was optional. Why else would it be detachable? And for the record, no developer actually used the xbox hard drive in any significant way except for Bungie, Team Ninja, and a handful of others. Did you notice? No. You still played and enjoyed all those great 3rd party *and* 1st party games. Were Xbox games bigger or more complex than Ps2 games? No. So really, the Hard drive ended up being a only a marketing point for MS, and at great cost. THe hard drive alone added about 100 dollars of extra cost into each xbox. That's because of the increased size, bigger power supply, and a hard drive that you cannot cost reduce. That puts into perspective why MS chose to make it optional this time around, and why the price point with hard drive goes up by exactly 100 dollars.

Everyone take a deep breath.... The HD is not some magical "i make consoles better" piece of hardware. Making it optional is not going to make the Xbox 360 crash and burn. In fact, I'd wager that you won't even notice that it's gone *and* it will make them more competetive in the long run. Now, I don't expect people to be happy to pay what is percieved as an extra $100 for what they got for free last time. In fact, that extra 100 is going to reduce my launch title purchase by 1 title. I'm not made of money.

I guess what I'm trying to say in a long ramble is if you think the hard drive is going to make games better, you're wrong. if you think the cell processor is going to make games better, you're wrong. if you think nintendo's controller is going to make games better, you're wrong. What makes games great is inventive developers with time. That is what will determine who "wins" and what platform you enjoy. Only time will tell who has done the necessary work to get the great games.

[sTubbs]

I was calling shenanigans until the official MS statement was made, but now I am not so sure...

[Tyrant]

£70 for a 20gb HD?! All that extra junk for the "full" version seems way overpriced.

Well, it's a 2.5" laptop HD as opposed to the standard 3.5" desktop HD. I'd imagine it has a bit more durability, which would be necessary for people who decide to move it to another 360 and so forth. The cheapest 30gb laptop HD that I've seen goes for $65US.

Personally, I would rather have an internal, faster 3.5" HD though.

[protojack]

Well I stated in the other thread that I thought $399 was reasonable but I didn't scroll down on the main page far enough to see this. Some of these accessory prices make me cringe.

[Kelegacy]

What is different from the Xbox 360 than the Xbox itself? Besides, graphics? So maybe the moniker, "Xbox 1.5" is nearly justified? It does the same things as the Xbox, but is even missing a component, the harddrive, but they add a wireless controller, which have been around since the SNES/Genesis days or before. No new bells? No whistles? Just an updated product? I was hoping for a little more, actually.

[Adam Blue]

There is gonna be more. Like the Tivo function. That's what the remote is for. Watching TV through your XBox and getting alerts at that time. There's a lot going for the system, and while I think this pricing thing is stupid, I'll still get one.

[trip1eX]

The hard drive is detatchable so in case of fire (like the power supply burning up) you can chuck it threw a window and climb out thru the broken shards to safety.

[trip1eX]

There is gonna be more. Like the Tivo function. That's what the remote is for. Watching TV through your XBox and getting alerts at that time. There's a lot going for the system, and while I think this pricing thing is stupid, I'll still get one.

The 360 is just a dummy box. There is no tivo on it unless you have tivo functionality on your pc.

[zangster]

Wouldn't it be super-sexy of Microsoft at some point this week to go "oops, we gave you the wrong press release" and they completely changed the pricing and packaging plans.

[zangster]

I've been seeing a lot of comments about Microsoft "splitting the fanbase" (whatever that hogwash means) when in reality they're just giving the consumer more options. A consumer which is just as likely to buy the cheaper model and then decide they need to go and get whatever other add-ons they didn't get the first time around.

Oh, and let's not forget that Microsoft can easily limit the number of units available at launch so that yes, technically the Xbox 360 will launch at $299 and $399 but good luck finding one of those $299 models. Based on what we've read and seen, the Xbox 360 bundle is a good value for it's money considering what it includes and the features the new system is going to support. Am I disappointed that I'll have to spend more money? Yes. Am I eager to get my hands on a fully-featured game system? Yes.

[Kagger]

I remember all the craziness surrounding sonys 100 dollar harddrive....but...I suppose its ok considering this one will get used at least...well...makes it less ironic

[Rangoth]

$400? Fuck that.
>hands his money to Nintendo< Sony and Microsoft can officially kiss my butt.

[Zeal]

Ok, Microsoft is fucked and I'll tell you why, and before you start, I've always been a huge Microsoft supporter. Bill Gates is my homeboy.

No one will want the $300 system, with the hardcore base snapping up the $400 one. You're gonna have a ton of hdd-less consoles just sitting around in store shelves collecting dust, not to mention a shortage of the hdd/wireless systems.

The average consumer won't buy the console without its hdd and wireless accessories, and ALSO won't be willing to pay $400 for the all in one package. Trust me.

Microsoft is about to make a BIG mistake. Mark my words.

Oh and with the $60 games and this terrible launch strategy, I hope Microsoft enjoys getting raped by the PS3. The general attitude on 360 launch day will be "Isn't Sony releasing the PS3 soon?" http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/images/icons/icon13.gif

[zangster]

$400? Fuck that.
>hands his money to Nintendo< Sony and Microsoft can officially kiss my butt.

"Dear Nintendo,

I have recently become aware of the product Microsoft intends to release as part of the Xbox 360 bundle and I'm very disappointed in the price point as well as the contents of the bundle. Although I'm fully aware of the value for my money I could possibly receive, I have instead decided to give you the same money I would've spent on an Xbox 360 bundle. Having seen nothing more of the Revolution than the display case from E3, nor any gameplay video, nor having any idea what you may actually charge for a Nintendo revolution, I feel this is a much better financial decision.

Thanks!"

(Not to pick on you specifically Rangoth, I just grow weary of reading these same posts all day with people promising or not promising their money to Sony and/or Nintendo when there's not really a whole lot known about either of their products. For that matter Microsoft hasn't even released the Xbox 360 so who know what could happen between now and then.)

[score]

I've been seeing a lot of comments about Microsoft "splitting the fanbase" (whatever that hogwash means)

People are referring to the splitting of the xbox360 market not the fanbase. If a developer decides to do something special with the hard drive in their game then they are limiting the number of xbox360 users who can play their game.

[Kelegacy]

I just want to say how impressed I am with some people here, primarily the usual Microsoft "fanboys". I was thinking that when I jumped into this thread that I'd see a bunch of excuses and defending of MS even though the same people would shit on Sony for doing the same thing. But I was wrong. There are still staunch defenders here, but it's nice to know that even loyal supporters are calling foul in this case. Zeal, Perigon, etc. you guys have been standup gamers today!

But you also ruined my readied retort: "So it's okay for MS to lie to us, but when Sony does it, they are evil and scoundrels?" or something to that affect.

[51|RandoM]

Modders will be putting in their own hard drives from day one. The same amount of money MS wants for a 20 gig drive will buy you an 80 gig drive.

[Kelegacy]

Modders will be putting in their own hard drives from day one. The same amount of money MS wants for a 20 gig drive will buy you an 80 gig drive.

Yep, the mod scene will do what the Corporations wont.

[Zeal]

The 360 launch will be an absolute disaster, I assure you. It's gonna be mass confusion and price gouging.

Below is an example of your average gamer walking into EB on launch day.

Consumer: Ok, so I need the $400 console for backwards compatibility but I also need wireless but $300 is much less but doesn't cover backwards compatibility and wireless controllers but do I get the headset how much for an extra harddrive but what if I buy without the harddrive and then buy a bigger one but can I get on Live! with the $300 one but what does the $400 console Live! do but does the $300 console have a wireless headset but is the wireless controller compatible with the $300 console but what if I wanna hookup the wireless headset to the $300 and don't have the harddrive but what...but...but?!?!?! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!! ::nuclear explosion::

[Stryfe01]

who cares...if you planned on getting the console before...im sure you still will get it. im upset about this, but realistically as a "hardcore" gamer...i'll just buy what i can afford. it's xmas season by then, and ill just spread my 360 wishlist to make up for what i didn't buy myself. everyone does it..i'm 26 and i know ppl in their 40's that do it...albeit not for electronics, but other things

[BigJonno]

I'm going to jump in and defend MS here. For UK gamers, this price announcement is fricking awesome. Almost every console releases at £299 in the UK. I'm pretty sure the Saturn and original PS were even more. That's how much I expect to pay for a new machine. I remember when MS dropped the original Xbox price down to £199 after only a month (and compensated all the early adopters with over £100 worth of goodies) I thought it was Christmas come early or something. Added to that, you US types were getting the same consoles at $299, which is generally about a third less.

This time, not only are we getting a console with a good range of peripherals for £279, it's also in line with US pricing. So while I'm sorry you guys are having to pay more than expected, I can't be too sad as we're getting a great deal.

That said, they still should've left the HD in as standard.