Obama fans "latte-drinking, Prius- driving, Birkenstock-wearing, trust fund babies"

[Wraith]

according to Hillary supporter, union president.

Give me a break! I've got news for all the latte-drinking, Prius-driving, Birkenstock-wearing, trust fund babies crowding in to hear him speak! This guy won't last a round against the Republican attack machine. He's a poet, not a fighter.- Tom Buffenbarger, President, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers

MSNBC (http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/02/20/684411.aspx), via AutoBlog Green (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02/21/are-obama-supporters-all-prius-driving-birkenstock-wearing-t/)

Love that "Republican attack machine" line too. Seems to be a Hillary favorite.

[DiBiddilyBop]

Much like a cornered animal, she gets nasty when threatened.

[Telefrog]

Damn. I guess I need to get a Prius, some Birkenstocks, a trust fund, and start liking lattes.

[Grifter]

Seems to me Hillary is doing most of the attacking, that woman makes my skin crawl.

[Tabasco]

Wow, I am none of those and still support Obama. Of course I am a tea drinking, honda driving, vintage clothing-wearing, pretty well off young adult; so take that however you will.

I'm pretty sure it's intelligent people who vote for Obama. :D

[Heretic Machine]

Seemed to do alright against her, maybe because there really isn't an effective way to attack him. Thus far, it seems that McCain is just adopting her strategy in a preemptive attack against Obama; I doubt it'll work any better for him. Personally, I doubt old Hilldog would last very long against McCain, her history is long and sordid; she even said so herself, claiming that it didn't matter because everyone already knew about all of the skeletons in her closet. That doesn't exactly inspire a lot of confidence in me.

[bKangy]

The hilarious thing is, without the aforementioned group, the Dems would be utterly fucked in November. Great job alienating everyone Hillary campaign!

[Oxonian]

This "Republican attack machine" you speak of... this would be supposed "machine" that failed to prevent Senator Clinton from winning election to the Senate twice from a state in which she never lived, even though Senator Clinton is apparently such a weak candidate that even a "poet" can whup her ass?

That "Republican attack machine" sounds about as threatening as an egg beater. Watch out, Obama!

[CaptStu]

Hillary can suck it.

[Slack3r78]

This "Republican attack machine" you speak of... this would be supposed "machine" that failed to prevent Senator Clinton from winning election to the Senate twice from a state in which she never lived, even though Senator Clinton is apparently such a weak candidate that even a "poet" can whup her ass?

That "Republican attack machine" sounds about as threatening as an egg beater. Watch out, Obama!

Hillary's sinking poll numbers are all part of the vast right-wing conspiracy.

[GrinR]

4 more years of Republican guidance, HERE WE COME!

[Devilturnip]

4 more years of Republican guidance, HERE WE COME!

Yeah, that fantastic Republican turn out we've been seeing during the primaries must give you a lot of hope for the general election.

[Wslove]

Yeah, that fantastic Republican turn out we've been seeing during the primaries must give you a lot of hope for the general election.

Don't pay attention to GrinR, he thinks PNAC is on the right track and have a good grasp of how the world works :rolleyes:

By the way, in case nobody knows who PNAC is:

Project for the New American Century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC)

[IrishWhiskey]

I don't drink coffee, but if they're handing out free trust funds, I'll take one.

Actually it seems like he's being subjected to the "Republican attack machine" already, as that exact phrase was used in a Republican ad against Harold Ford in 2006.

Hmm, maybe Hillary's supporters are trying to help Obama by getting him ready for baseless and insulting attacks. That's very sweet of them.

[Heretic Machine]

4 more years of Republican guidance, HERE WE COME!

Yeah, right... lulz. McCain doesn't stand a chance in hell against Obama, and I'm pretty sure the higher ups in the Republican party know that; they're throwing him under the bus.

[Oxonian]

Hillary's sinking poll numbers are all part of the vast right-wing conspiracy.
Let's be honest: Barack Obama is part of the vast right-wing conspiracy. It's the only explanation.

[Slack3r78]

Let's be honest: Barack Obama is part of the vast right-wing conspiracy. It's the only explanation.

Just wait until people find out that he was on the Grassy Knoll back in '63.

[Wraith]

Just wait until people find out that he was on the Grassy Knoll back in '63.Toddlers can fire rifles with pinpoint accuracy, right?

Or maybe there was time travel involved.

[sprankton]

Hillary can suck it.

... nevermind too easy.

[Wslove]

Toddlers can fire rifles with pinpoint accuracy, right?

Or maybe there was time travel involved.

Barack Obama is everywhere at everytime.

Just wish upon a star and *poof* he will be there.

[EternalGamer]

Much like a cornered animal, she gets nasty when threatened.

So are candidates now responsible for anything anyone who supports them says?

I don't agree with all the criticism she has leveled against Obama, but this doesn't seem to have anything to do with her.

[Karmakin]

Yeah, right... lulz. McCain doesn't stand a chance in hell against Obama, and I'm pretty sure the higher ups in the Republican party know that; they're throwing him under the bus.

Actually not really. McCain actually is their BEST chance against Obama. Mind you, they're still going under the bus more or less.

So instead of losing 40+states they might only lose 30+ states. It's still enough to probably end the Reagan era 'tho.

[ElektroDragon]

There won't BE a Republican attack machine, only a McCain attack machine. You forget that a lot of Republicans, like me, hate McCain. That's why I'm for Obama. There is little difference between Hillary and McCain. The Republicans who would have been the ones leading the "attack machine" have been disenfranchised by the neocons and McCain media love machine (which has already turned on him). Both Hillary and McCain are toast. Obama is the next POTUS.

[Itchyeyes]

Much like a cornered animal, she gets nasty when threatened.
Umm... you do realize that this quote was not stated by her, or even someone associated with her campaign, don't you? That's what that little line underneath the quote is for, to tell you who actually said that quote so that you don't go jumping to idiotic conclusions.

[Goronmon]

...so that you don't go jumping to idiotic conclusions.I'm confused. How else are we supposed to respond to these kinds of stories, if not with knee-jerk reactions?

[kid cabelgo]

There won't BE a Republican attack machine, only a McCain attack machine. You forget that a lot of Republicans, like me, hate McCain. That's why I'm for Obama. There is little difference between Hillary and McCain. The Republicans who would have been the ones leading the "attack machine" have been disenfranchised by the neocons and McCain media love machine (which has already turned on him). Both Hillary and McCain are toast. Obama is the next POTUS.

Two Uncles, my father, and my brother have all been die-hard republicans for their entire lives.

They've all said that they're voting for Obama. :D

edit: Oh, and my sister...and my sister in law...

I have a lot of republicans (repooblicans) in my family.

At least, I used to. ;)

[TheFlyingOrc]

Toddlers can fire rifles with pinpoint accuracy, right?

Or maybe there was time travel involved.
He's Kennedy-esque...right?

Well, we know for a fact after Kennedy was shot, they died him black and put him in a retirement home.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b350/theflyingorc/bubba_hotep_02.jpg
So maybe they sent him back to the past to ASSASSINATE HIMSELF, so that he could then be died black.

After that happened, they sent him Back To The Future in a DeLorean, and he's running for president AGAIN.

[Slack3r78]

He's Kennedy-esque...right?

Well, we know for a fact after Kennedy was shot, they died him black and put him in a retirement home.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b350/theflyingorc/bubba_hotep_02.jpg
I must dig up my copy of that DVD now.

[Johan]

I drink regular coffee, drive a gas-guzzling Yukon XL SLT, don't even know what a Birkenstock is, and have babies but few funds.

I'm also conservative socially (fiscally more liberal, though hawkish on deficits), and I think Obama deserves a real look.

Where do I fit? :confused:

Hillary can suck it.

This might meet with Bill's approval! ;)

[IrishWhiskey]

Actually not really. McCain actually is their BEST chance against Obama. Mind you, they're still going under the bus more or less.There's basically two ways it could go in a general with McCain vs Obama

1. McCain siphons a lot of moderates and leaning Republicans away from Obama, and the conservative base begrudingly lines up behind him. Obama is left with core Democratic strongholds, and has to fight hard for the swing states. There's low turnout as young voters supporting Obama don't show up (which happens) and the elderly and blue collar reliable more voters go McCain, giving him all the states he needs.

2. Obama siphons most of McCain's moderate support, McCain has trouble getting the conservative base to vote for him, particularly the key evangelical movement they based much of their election strategy on, and the large number of Congressional seats flipping blue mobilize Democratic voters while reducing incentives to Republican turnout. High-turnout, anti-incumbent mood, and support from downticket races give him the win.

[SuicideKing]

Two Uncles, my father, and my brother have all been die-hard republicans for their entire lives.

They've all said that they're voting for Obama. :D

edit: Oh, and my sister...and my sister in law...

I have a lot of republicans (repooblicans) in my family.

At least, I used to. ;)

Just curious, what about Obama appeals to your apparently previous right-leaning policy preferences? And by republican do you mean, just a republican party liberal, forced into the camp by a single issue (like the dems gun-grabbing years ago?) or actually held right wing position on most issues. Is it just the "hope" and "change" deal where you think anything different would have to be better?

[GrinR]

Don't pay attention to GrinR, he thinks PNAC is on the right track and have a good grasp of how the world works :rolleyes:

By the way, in case nobody knows who PNAC is:

Project for the New American Century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNAC)

Thanks for the link, I'd never heard of them. But yeah, you're mostly right.

[Mantooth]

He's Kennedy-esque...right?

If by Kennedy-esque you mean that he quotes Kennedy a lot in his speeches, then yes.


I thought Obama fans just liked a good speech telling them what they want to hear.

Obama Speech Template

Hope, Hope, Hope...
<Insert JFK quote>
Change, Change, Change...
<Insert MLK quote>
Hope, Change, Hope...
<Insert JFK quote>
Change, Hope, Change....

[Slack3r78]

If by Kennedy-esque you mean that he quotes Kennedy a lot in his speeches, then yes.
You've apparently not listened to many of his speeches.

His policy direction strikes me as Kennedy-esque, as well. Policy proposals like a $4000 tuition credit in return for community service strike me as being very much in the spirit of Kennedy.

[Variable Gear]

Hillary's sinking poll numbers are all part of the vast right-wing conspiracy.

Yes. This is true.

[TheFlyingOrc]

You've apparently not listened to many of his speeches.

His policy direction strikes me as Kennedy-esque, as well. Policy proposals like a $4000 tuition credit in return for community service strike me as being very much in the spirit of Kennedy.

Honestly? I'm not a fan of this proposal. Regardless of how much "service" people do, I don't care what you do if you're just doing it for money - it's not service anymore.

[Troggles]

Honestly? I'm not a fan of this proposal. Regardless of how much "service" people do, I don't care what you do if you're just doing it for money - it's not service anymore.

The point is, it still gets done.

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

The problem with Hilary supporters who think Obama is all about latte-drinking etc, is that those people vote. Just because they don't fall into the nice clean categories of single-white-male or whatever, doesn't mean they don't wander into a Starbucks on occasion.

Maybe they should be careful about alienating that segment of the population, since any battle done in that realm will mean somebody has to pick between 4 years of Clinton, or 4 years of guilt free lattes.

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

The point is, it still gets done.And it addresses a need that has always had a tough time finding solutions that work. Plus, there will be some people who find they enjoy the work or the people and continue on helping.

I don't see much difference between that and signing up with the military to pay for your schooling, except it is another option to pick from. If it works, you might get more kids going for higher education while also easing some areas that need help.

[bKangy]

I thought Obama fans just liked a good speech telling them what they want to hear.



Yes, I'm sure 20,000 people pack out stadiums because they want to hear mundane statistics about policy implementation and the tabulation of the cost of that policy on the budget, and how that budget will be balanced. You just don't interest people by waffling on and on for hours about things people have very little grasp of. Obama has the policies and a very good senatorial record, but they're fronted by the inspiring speeches etc. That's the point, to get people excited and then interested in how that excitement will be harnessed. Not to talk and talk and talk and then demand people raise the roof.

[GrinR]

Yeah, right... lulz. McCain doesn't stand a chance in hell against Obama, and I'm pretty sure the higher ups in the Republican party know that; they're throwing him under the bus.

My money is on a Republican win. Let's see who the final nominees are, I don't care if it's Hillary or Obama but I want to see who the running mates are, and then I'll bet you whether or not the Republican win is a shoo-in or not.

Folks keep on thinking it's about voting for "their guy" but with the country split, it's far more about who can gather folks "across the aisle."

Call me cynical, but there ain't no red states gonna be votin' for Obama. Hillary, maybe, because at least she's got some war under her belt but then she's a woman, so... there's that.

McCain can get blue states.

[bKangy]

McCain can get blue states.

You're in denial. McCain is sucking up to the Neo-Cons so hard it's almost embarrassing. If there's one thing that'll turn off the blue state voters in November, it's being reminded of the fact McCain once supported action against torture, abortion clamp downs and the religious wing amongst other things but is now firmly on message with the Bush Republicans to make sure they bother to turn up at the election.

[IrishWhiskey]

Call me cynical, but there ain't no red states gonna be votin' for Obama. Hillary, maybe, because at least she's got some war under her belt but then she's a woman, so... there's that.

McCain can get blue states.See, unlike yourself, three-quarters of the country isn't happy with the war, and don't consider it a benefit for a candidate to embrace continuing it.

And its going to be way easier for Obama to win red states, than McCain blue. There are definately some key swing states McCain could turn alright (Florida, Penn, Ohio), but the big Democratic ones (California, New York etc) are just completely out of reach. Some states will be out of reach for the Democrats too, but there aren't worth as many electoral votes, and by targeting key southern states, Obama could grab a few away. Basically in a winner take all system, it helps Obama that the Republicans have more small states (some with large African-American contingencies), and the Democrats a few big ones.

[Oxonian]

The point is, it still gets done.
Well, yeah, but what is the "it" here? Anyone with any skills is unlikely to take this offer, which means we'll have a lot of people who are competent to pick up litter by the side of the highway. That's nice, but we could probably get at least as many people to pick up litter simply by offering cash instead.

If the purpose of this program is to accomplish useful work, it makes a lot more sense just to hire more government workers. If the purpose is to encourage people to go to college, then extend the credit to everyone regardless of whether they perform community service or not. Trying to accomplish both goals with the same program doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

[bKangy]

Basically in a winner take all system, it helps Obama that the Republicans have more small states (some with large African-American contingencies), and the Democrats a few big ones.

Surely it's the other way round due to Florida being so critical to Dem success?

[sparkfizt]

I fail to see republicans swapping to obama, fiscally he is extremely liberal. I don't see this election being sweeped by either side. But already we've had some upsets, before the primaries started it was apparently evident we were gonna have guliani vs hillary :P
I do personally think obama has a better chance than hillary though, she has way too much baggage.

[Wokapto]

Toddlers can fire rifles with pinpoint accuracy, right?

Or maybe there was time travel involved.

There is always time travel involved.

[Slack3r78]

If the purpose of this program is to accomplish useful work, it makes a lot more sense just to hire more government workers. If the purpose is to encourage people to go to college, then extend the credit to everyone regardless of whether they perform community service or not. Trying to accomplish both goals with the same program doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Why is that? You're both giving kids a chance to go to college and getting them to make an investment in their community. Why would it be superior to pay workers to do the same thing without getting the added bonus of a better-educated populace? It makes more sense to me than yet another entitlement program.

[Ultima Thulian]

Political attack tactics are both sad and funny at the same time.

Besides, Obama fans wear Dockers.

Me? I'm rooting for McCain. He's ain't too bad.

[blackzc]

The point is, it still gets done.

Its easy to go to collage. This is waste of time.

[bKangy]

Its easy to go to collage. This is waste of time.

Yes, but is it easy for people to pay for it, especially if they're from poorer backgrounds or not guaranteed of jobs after it? I get the impression you have absolutely no experience of the poor.

[Ultima Thulian]

Its easy to go to collage. This is waste of time.

WTF is a collage? I never been to one.

[IrishWhiskey]

Surely it's the other way round due to Florida being so critical to Dem success?If the discussion is on swing states like Florida and Ohio, I can't predict anything. However if its about solid red states versus blue, I'd say Obama can take more, particularly in the South.

Its easy to go to collage. This is waste of time.Oh blackzc, so much comedy.

By the way, I apologize for mocking your statement about how your therapist being black proves you aren't racist. It was not in any way a ridiculous argument. At least, not when compared to your following suggestion that you couldn't be racist because you have "black" in your username.

[Ultima Thulian]

Yes, but is it easy for people to pay for it, especially if they're from poorer backgrounds or not guaranteed of jobs after it? Think before you open your mouth :V

Actually, being poor is one of the FEW times it pays. Being poor is a huge asset in getting grants, scholarships, etc. for college.

Trust me. I fucking know! :p

But yea, I get your point. The middle class has the hardest time with college, which is unfortunate. But I'm going on mostly anecdotal evidence, so I'm probably wrong anyway. :o

[Slack3r78]

Its easy to go to collage. This is waste of time.

Irony. Thick. Choking.

[Ultima Thulian]

By the way, I apologize for mocking your statement about how your therapist being black proves you aren't racist. It was not in any way a ridiculous argument. At least, not when compared to your following suggestion that you couldn't be racist because you have "black" in your username.

My family doctor is black. And he cupped my balls once. Thus, I'm less racist than anyone here, and therefore, everyone on this board is more racist than me. Win for me.

[mkelehan]

Rock solid proof that Hillary is in the pocket of big oil.

[Slack3r78]

My family doctor is black. And he cupped my balls once. Thus, I'm less racist than anyone here, and therefore, everyone on this board is more racist than me. Win for me.

However, you are approximately 73% gayer than the rest of us.

[bKangy]

Actually, being poor is one of the FEW times it pays. Being poor is a huge asset in getting grants, scholarships, etc. for college.

Trust me. I fucking know! :p



Ahh, I assumed the US would be less like the UK as it is normally in these types of debate. Still, college is massively expensive, $4000 would help any struggling student who's outside of the grants and scholarships.

[IrishWhiskey]

My family doctor is black. And he cupped my balls once. Thus, I'm less racist than anyone here, and therefore, everyone on this board is more racist than me. Win for me.I would take advantage of this position by making a bunch of racist statements. Then we all become even more racist in comparison. And if you just change your name to "ImNotRacist", then you'll be completely impervious to criticism.

[GrinR]

Wait and see, folks. Bookmark this thread and I'll be happy to put my bib on and chow down on crow if I'm wrong.

[sparkfizt]

Am I allowed to say that not everyone should go to college? We need to stop vilifying those who don't go to college and instead focus on what secondary education is right for a person. Some people cant solve differential equations or create a sorting algorithm but they can fix cars, weld, etc... These are all jobs that will provide a decent livliehood.

I've seen so many people crammed into college on my tax dollars that immediately fail out. The university is going to take em because it's revenue for them, they don't care if they fail out. If we better judge what people can and want to do we can stop wasting money on those who will never make it. I believe in better spending our tax dollars and not just constantly throwing more money at problems, more bureaucracy never solves anything other than wasting more money.

[TheKeck]

WTF is a collage? I never been to one.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/OttokarBild.JPG

[Ultima Thulian]

However, you are approximately 73% gayer than the rest of us.

That's racist.

[Slack3r78]

Am I allowed to say that not everyone should go to college? We need to stop vilifying those who don't go to college and instead focus on what secondary education is right for a person.
Hey, I'm a big advocate of vocational schools, myself. $4000 would go a long way toward paying for those too.

[Ultima Thulian]

Nah, spark, you make an excellent point. I know many people who just do enough to get a certificate of some sort, get an apprenticeship, and then they are good as gravy. Many ways to play the game.

[Slack3r78]

I do have to say, though, it does brighten my day a little bit when, once every few weeks, blackcz decides to sweep through the forums and prove to the rest of us that, yes, someone really can be that dumb.

[cp#]

He won't last a round? Clintons best strategy is to cry...

[IrishWhiskey]

Some people cant solve differential equations or create a sorting algorithm but they can fix cars, weld, etc... These are all jobs that will provide a decent livliehood.

I've seen so many people crammed into college on my tax dollars that immediately fail out. First of all, being able to create sorting algorithms generally does give you the opportunities for a decent livelihood. Usually better than shop class will anyway. So if you can do so, then its worth going for.

Second, on your tax dollars? There are definately government programs that help subsidize education, but I don't think that most of the people failing out are doing so on your dime, or anyone elses. In fact, all of those I know who dropped out of college did so because they were trust fund babies, who felt they didn't need to work for the education. Those who had to work to afford it made a bigger effort and commitment.

And finally, although there's a decent point in there about directing Universities more toward job skills and less toward general education, I think its just a fact that our world increasingly demands more higher learning, even in areas that previously didn't need it. Its true that college isn't the best option for everyone, but those who can go, and can use it in their career, should be encouraged.

[Wslove]

Thanks for the link, I'd never heard of them. But yeah, you're mostly right.

You never heard of them? They are planners of the Bush Doctrine which you support (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44921&page=12).

And since your sarcasm meter is off I'll reiterate here what you missed out in that thread. The PNAC ideals have no basis in reality. It was dangerous giving them high government positions. I honestly don't know how they kept from nuking someone other then the bulk of the military likely quashed the idea every time they tried to bring it up.

[sparkfizt]

Hey, I'm a big advocate of vocational schools, myself. $4000 would go a long way toward paying for those too.

I just get skeptical whenever helping people immediately means just throw raw money at it. Every social program we add will increase my taxes and limit what I am able to do financially. I am just not confident this is the most efficient way to meet the goals.

[GrinR]

You never heard of them? They are planners of the Bush Doctrine which you support (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44921&page=12).

And since your sarcasm meter is off I'll reiterate here what you missed out in that thread. The PNAC ideals have no basis in reality. It was dangerous giving them high government positions. I honestly don't know how they kept from nuking someone other then the bulk of the military likely quashed the idea every time they tried to bring it up.


I suspect your link is off. My sarcasm meter isn't off, I simply noted that my views are so different from yours that you see them as not even worth considering. Fair enough, I suppose.

[Oxonian]

Why is that? You're both giving kids a chance to go to college and getting them to make an investment in their community. Why would it be superior to pay workers to do the same thing without getting the added bonus of a better-educated populace?
What is this "investment in the community"? It sounds like any sort of "community service" will be enough to qualify for the credit. Working a few hours a week in an Oxfam shop would count. Is that something the country desperately needs?

The problem with this sort of program is twofold. First, it's highly inefficient at encouraging more people to do volunteer work, because there's a large body of people who already do volunteer work for free (many of whom later go on to college). Those people (who are not, by and large, idiots) will take this credit but not do any more volunteer work. So you're paying people to do something they would do anyway.

The second problem is that relatively few tasks can be accomplished with unskilled labor. High-school kids who want to do a little community service cannot be trusted with anything that requires much training, experience, judgment, or education. You can't have them patrolling the streets in dangerous neighborhoods. You can let them do a little painting and such on low-income housing, but they can't install the wiring or work on a load-bearing joist without close supervision. Unskilled volunteers cannot provide expert assistance, do anything that might incur liability, or work unsupervised.

My girlfriend runs a non-profit organization that attracts a lot of unskilled volunteers. With rare exception, they are more trouble than they're worth. They can't even answer the phones competently. She would trade them all in an instant for a single, trained, salaried employee who would hang around for years and be trustworthy. One cop does more to keep a neighborhood safe than a dozen grannies watching the street suspiciously. One social worker benefits the homeless a lot more than any number of soup kitchen volunteers.

[IrishWhiskey]

I just get skeptical whenever helping people immediately means just throw raw money at it. Every social program we add will increase my taxes and limit what I am able to do financially. I am just not confident this is the most efficient way to meet the goals.All we need to do is cut these (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/most-awful/government-waste-1.php) programs, (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/most-awful/worst-government-waste.php) and we can all afford gold plated Humvees.

[sparkfizt]

First of all, being able to create sorting algorithms generally does give you the opportunities for a decent livelihood. Usually better than shop class will anyway. So if you can do so, then its worth going for.

Second, on your tax dollars? There are definately government programs that help subsidize education, but I don't think that most of the people failing out are doing so on your dime, or anyone elses. In fact, all of those I know who dropped out of college did so because they were trust fund babies, who felt they didn't need to work for the education. Those who had to work to afford it made a bigger effort and commitment.

And finally, although there's a decent point in there about directing Universities more toward job skills and less toward general education, I think its just a fact that our world increasingly demands more higher learning, even in areas that previously didn't need it. Its true that college isn't the best option for everyone, but those who can go, and can use it in their career, should be encouraged.

I think you totally missed pretty much everything I said/meant...

Have you never been in a lit 101 class, look around at people struggling with a thesis statement? Not all of them are trust fund babies, especially if you're in a state like georgia that tries to do massive university funding. The more raw money you throw the more you end up with people who shouldn't be there.

Vocation schools != university, the universities should not be vocational. The entire point of a univesity degree is not that you're certified to do a job. it's that you're certified to solve problems within a discipline. Coming out of college I was not a brilliant programmer, but I picked up on it real fast since I had a solid foundation of knowledge and problem solving to work from. Teaching someone the details of C++ is nice, but what happens when their job suddenly needs them to become experts in SQL?

The point was not that money should dictate what you do, fix cars or do math. But instead we should be more intelligent with how we handle secondary education. Something that raw money isn't going to fix.

[IrishWhiskey]

I think you totally missed pretty much everything I said/meant...Yeah, I do that.


....Oh look, a butterfly!










No really, I take your point and agree. Although I wonder just how much money Georgia is throwing at it, and how much it costs to give people that chance. And if more people were able to get in, shouldn't that raise the standards required?

[Wraith]

... One cop does more to keep a neighborhood safe than a dozen grannies watching the street suspiciously. One social worker benefits the homeless a lot more than any number of soup kitchen volunteers.I haven't been following this plan, but it would seem to me that having them perform their volunteer work after they graduate would be a lot more useful (as long as there's a reliable way to make sure they keep their end of the bargain, i.e. dumping loans back on them if they try to skip out).

[sparkfizt]

...
No really, I take your point and agree. Although I wonder just how much money Georgia is throwing at it, and how much it costs to give people that chance. And if more people were able to get in, shouldn't that raise the standards required?

Instead you end up with the university sucking up as many as they can and have huge early attrition rates. The university makes money whether nor not you succeed, it just affects how long they get to leech money out of you.

[sparkfizt]

All we need to do is cut these (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/most-awful/government-waste-1.php) programs, (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/most-awful/worst-government-waste.php) and we can all afford gold plated Humvees.

I cant read the links at present but yeah we need to cut stuff out of the government. Every time we hand them something to manage it's going to be slow and expensive, and most importantly difficult to eventually stop funding. It's always easy to grow the government but hard to shrink.

one interesting thing to note when you read about gold plated toilets for the government is that we've sometimes used stuff like that to hide secret military projects :P As long as the funding to projects is public enemies can at least guess on what we're working on :P is it right? wrong? *shrug* I just find it interesting :P

[IrishWhiskey]

Instead you end up with the university sucking up as many as they can and have huge early attrition rates. The university makes money whether nor not you succeed, it just affects how long they get to leech money out of you.So if they are making money leeching off of dropouts, then how does their doing so take your tax dollars?

[Oxonian]

I haven't been following this plan, but it would seem to me that having them perform their volunteer work after they graduate would be a lot more useful (as long as there's a reliable way to make sure they keep their end of the bargain, i.e. dumping loans back on them if they try to skip out).
Yeah. The military does that a lot, especially with doctors: you sign a contract in which they pay for your education and you commit to a specified period of service. Law schools do something similar, although it's less organized: individual law schools will sometimes pay part or all of your loans for you if you work in low-paying public interest law. Actually, Congress passed a bill last year providing for some federal student loan forgiveness for public-service lawyers.

This is a reasonable system, although you still have the first problem I mentioned: even people who would have entered public service anyway collect the money. Moreover, since the students choose which sort of public service they want to do and get the same benefits regardless, they choose stuff that's exciting but might not be quite so useful. For example, lots of young public-spirited lawyers want to help struggling artists negotiate contracts (interesting and glamorous) but not homeless people fighting for Medicaid benefits (which is arguably more important).

[bKangy]

All we need to do is cut these (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/most-awful/government-waste-1.php) programs, (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/most-awful/worst-government-waste.php) and we can all afford gold plated Humvees.

Holy shit, this is my favourite:

"$18,000 to Santa Clara, California so the bomb squad could buy Segways."

[sparkfizt]

So if they are making money leeching off of dropouts, then how does their doing so take your tax dollars?

Many of those dropouts would not have attended if they had not received massive financial aid.

[Slack3r78]

This is a reasonable system, although you still have the first problem I mentioned: even people who would have entered public service anyway collect the money. Moreover, since the students choose which sort of public service they want to do and get the same benefits regardless, they choose stuff that's exciting but might not be quite so useful.

Might there be an economic argument that it's still a net positive to have these people graduate with lower student loan burdens out of school even if they'd have performed community service anyway?

[Oxonian]

Might there be an economic argument that it's still a net positive to have these people graduate with lower student loan burdens out of school even if they'd have performed community service anyway?
Sure, but that's an argument for just handing out tuition credits to everyone, without regard for the Kabuki theater of the Oxfam shop.

[IrishWhiskey]

Holy shit, this is my favourite:

"$18,000 to Santa Clara, California so the bomb squad could buy Segways."My favorite is the six man hovercraft in inland Indiana.

- "Hey guys, DHS is handing out contracts all over the place, and even Iowa's 'Corn Palace' is getting designated as a high value terrorist target. So if we need some new equipment for safety, just make a suggestions."
- "Bomb robot?"
- "Radiological sensors?"
- "Biometric cameras?"
- "Hovercraft?"
- ......
- "Oh fuck yes, we are DEFINITELY doing that. And if it works, next year we ask for jetpacks."

[drakkarim]

Damn. I guess I need to get a Prius, some Birkenstocks, a trust fund, and start liking lattes.

ditto.

fucking hate unions.

[Oxonian]

If Indiana's brave public servants are not equipped with the jetpacks that are their God-given right, the terrorists have already won.

[rinichanraar]

All I have to say is that I absolutely abhor Birkenstocks. I just can't stand them. I have an irrational hatred towards them.

I do like Obama, though.

[blackzc]

Yes, but is it easy for people to pay for it, especially if they're from poorer backgrounds or not guaranteed of jobs after it? I get the impression you have absolutely no experience of the poor.

You have no idea. Ive slept in cars with my mother before. I come from a poor family and im just now fighting my way out of it. Trailers, dirty wood floors, oatmeal and bologna everyday. I know all about it.

I could have went to collage but it was more of a mental thing than a money thing for sure, i blame myself for not going.

[Arnold Darkshner]

I suspect your link is off. My sarcasm meter isn't off, I simply noted that my views are so different from yours that you see them as not even worth considering. Fair enough, I suppose.

I think it might be that your views are, in the end, morally repugnant - especially if you can get behind PNAC

[Cyrillus]

"Why is it called a latte? Maybe because it costs a latte, or because it takes a latte time to make."

We salute you, Mr. Fancy Coffee Shop Coffee Pourer.

[Lunar Blue]

Its easy to go to collage. This is waste of time.

Oh yay, more quote material! Gotta collect 'em all!

[Johan]

Oh yay, more quote material! Gotta collect 'em all!

That is truly one of the all-time classic quotes right there! Awesome!

[joruussuun]

This is pretty interesting. (http://www.theneweditor.com/index.php?/archives/7601-Fainting-for-Obama.html)

I know I've never been as excited, nowhere near, about politics as I am in this election.

Can anyone finish this quote? "You think you're excited!? Feel-"

:p

[blackzc]

Oh yay, more quote material! Gotta collect 'em all!

Why dont tell me why what i said was so ridiculous? Is it not easy to get into college? High school/GED. pass your SATs, get a grant/loan

OMG thats so fucking hard!!!unpossible!!

LOL 2 of my quotes in your sig...hahah fucking pwnd right there. (thumbsup)

[IrishWhiskey]

Why dont tell me why what i said was so ridiculous? Is it not easy to get into college? High school/GED. pass your SATs, get a grant/loan

OMG thats so fucking hard!!!unpossible!!

LOL 2 of my quotes in your sig...hahah fucking pwnd right there. (thumbsup)In case you missed the irony, in a post talking about how any idiot can go to college, you misspelled college and said something stupid.

Of course, maybe people are judging unfairly. No one who says "OMG, LOL," and "fucking pwnd right there" could possibly be a gibbering moron.

[Maskatron]

"latte-drinking, Prius- driving, Birkenstock-wearing, trust fund babies"

Let's see here...
1) Close I guess. More of an Americano drinker.
2) Close - 4 year old Honda Hybrid.
2) Hell nah.
4) I fucking wish.

[blackzc]

In case you missed the irony, in a post talking about how any idiot can go to college, you misspelled college and said something stupid.

Of course, maybe people are judging unfairly. No one who says "OMG, LOL," and "fucking pwnd right there" could possibly be a gibbering moron.


And how many times do i have to ignore the college comments and misspell it before you get that im playing you idiots like a drum.hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Geez, for as witty and sarcastic as you fucks come off you really do have a tough time getting it.

I cannot believe the bait that you guy take as me being for real. Especially the racial stuff....wow!..er omg!!

[IrishWhiskey]

And how many times do i have to ignore the college comments and misspell it before you get that im playing you idiots like a drum.hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Geez, for as witty and sarcastic as you fucks come off you really do have a tough getting it.

I cannot believe the bait that you guy take as me being for real. Especially the racial stuff....wow!..er omg!!Ah, so you are only acting like an idiotic racist jerk. That means we were being completely unfair it treating you like an idi.... hang on a minute...


You sure fooled all of us. I guess we're too stupid to appreciate your fine wit and charm. Actually I'm still not sure whats funny about typing like a third-grader and saying stupid stuff, but I'll try and develop my sense of humor more.


.

[Oxonian]

playing you idiots like a drum
? Is that the expression?

You should give it up, Irish. In the event of a nuclear war, the only survivors will be slime mold, cockroaches, and blackzc.

[Evil Avatar]

I'm pretty sure it's intelligent people who vote for Obama. :D

Funny, I would have said the opposite. Go Muslim!

[broodax]

*Opens Anti troll kit, reads* Step one: Ignore troll and live your productive life. Go outside, talk to friends, and read a book. Step two: troll continues usless spiral and waste of existance by trolling an internet forum. Congrats, troll has defeated itself by wasting its life points. Also, its social points should be zero as well.

Sweet, well I'm going to listen to some music and read some Comac McCarthy. Heck, I might even do some of my college homework. Have fun, blackzc.

[Wslove]

Funny, I would have said the opposite. Go Muslim!

Are you trolling Evil?

Say it ain't so Evil! *sniff* Say it ain't so!

[Worldcrafter]

My favorite is the six man hovercraft in inland Indiana.
Midwestern values stipulate riding on a cushion of air.

[blackzc]

[QUOTE=IrishWhiskey;1285131]Ah, so you are only acting like an idiotic racist jerk. That means we were being completely unfair it treating you like an idi.... hang on a minute...


You sure fooled all of us. I guess we're too stupid to appreciate your fine wit and charm. Actually I'm still not sure whats funny about typing like a third-grader and saying stupid stuff, but I'll try and develop my sense of humor more.


Point is you are so busy calling me a racist we cant even have a discussion. Yea, im blunt and your sensitive. Im sorry i hurt your e-feelings. I promise ill sugar coat it for you from now on mkay.

Because frank discussion =RACIST!!RAWR!



.

[blackzc]

Are you trolling Evil?

Say it ain't so Evil! *sniff* Say it ain't so!


I get the feeling EA isn't a latte drinking prius driving birkenstock wearing trust fund baby. Always seemed a bit middle right IMO. (shrugs)

[NSFW]

lol... pnac is the neocon bible and future plan for the future. It is what would have happened if the iraq war went well. Empire.... blah. I read that back in 98 or whenever and it's kinda funny that that is why i didn't vote for bush. I'm conservative in some of my views but neocons are THE right wing nut jobs that people joke about. It's funny.

[Wslove]

I get the feeling EA isn't a latte drinking prius driving birkenstock wearing trust fund baby. Always seemed a bit middle right IMO. (shrugs)

Yeah but even he has to know that the OMG Barack Obama is a Muslim story has long ago been debunked.

Hell, the closest thing to a muslim was his father. And his father was an Atheist by the time he met Obama's mother. Technically he was born Atheist, which in this country may or may not be better then being born Muslim.

[Beelzebud]

Hey if Fox News says Obama is a muslim, then the nuckle-draggers can't help but parrot the talking point until November. Good luck with that strategy.

[Oxonian]

I do love when people misspell their aspersions on other people's intelligence. I don't mind elitists, so long as they are elite.

[Beelzebud]

Yeah I spelled knuckle wrong from not hitting a key, but at least I'm not stupid enough to believe everything Fox News spews about the Democratic front runner.

[Johan]

Yeah I spelled knuckle wrong from not hitting a key, but at least I'm not stupid enough to believe everything Fox News spews about the Democratic front runner.

Hahaha! Too true!

The only American political mind-frame that has modern terrorism in its past is the right wing.

You take your "stupid" from the extreme left side of the spectrum of idiocy...

[muddi900]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/lolrus-prezidenshul-candida.jpg

[Ultima Thulian]

Lolrus? This just made my day!

[sleepbox]

Obama is a force on the Internet. It IS sorta like a cult no matter how you try to spin it. It's definately true that over 95% of people are sheepish and will do what they are told/led to do and the media (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pNaLFcrvbI0) is all up on Obama's nuts.

[Beelzebud]

Obama is a force on the Internet. It IS sorta like a cult no matter how you try to spin it.

Actually it's not like a cult at all.

[Ultima Thulian]

Obama is a force on the Internet. It IS sorta like a cult no matter how you try to spin it. It's definately true that over 95% of people are sheepish and will do what they are told/led to do and the media (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pNaLFcrvbI0) is all up on Obama's nuts.

*Dr. Evil*

Riiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhttt.

*Dr. Evil*

[Johan]

Obama is a force on the Internet. It IS sorta like a cult no matter how you try to spin it. It's definately true that over 95% of people are sheepish and will do what they are told/led to do and the media (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pNaLFcrvbI0) is all up on Obama's nuts.

Not 94.4%? Because, I'm pretty sure I heard it was 94.4%, you know.

And sheep? I thought it was lemmings. I'll have to Google it.

[broodax]

Obama is a force on the Internet. It IS sorta like a cult no matter how you try to spin it. It's definately true that over 95% of people are sheepish and will do what they are told/led to do and the media (http://youtube.com/watch?v=pNaLFcrvbI0) is all up on Obama's nuts.

Yeah...not sure where you got that, but ooookay...I really appreciated the "definitely true," just to assuage any doubt I may have. But anyhoo...

Gah, the combination of lolrus and the title of this thread has gotten me laughing so hard. I hate lattes (the closest I come his hot cocoa), I drive a '96 Grand Prix, I hate hippies and all related clothing, and if I had a trust fund, I wouldn't be posting in web site forums (EA rocks my sozzors, though:D).

[joruussuun]

I just wanted to let everyone know that Cats have just officially announced their support for Obama:

http://mfrost.typepad.com/cute_overload/images/2008/02/26/obama1.jpg

I hear Dogs will be making the announcement soon as well...

:D

[Johan]

Babies don't care, yo! They think the whole thing be the shiznit!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y12/swanktrendz/global/baby_flipping_the_bird.jpg