PDA

View Full Version : The whole Berkeley/Code Pink vs Marines affair


SuicideKing
02-13-2008, 03:23 PM
Well I can't seem to find or remember any threads on this popping up, so here's one.

As you may or may not be aware a few days ago this (http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1058361420080210) happened:

Last week, the Berkeley City Council agreed to send a letter to the Marines stating their recruiters were not welcome in the city and that those who stayed would be considered "uninvited and unwelcome intruders."

The council also applauded people who "impede" the recruiters' work and awarded a free parking permit to Code Pink, an anti-war group that demonstrates daily outside the Marine recruiting office in the city.

Many people were outraged (as they should have been IMO). Among them Senator Jim Demint(R) had the following (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327466,00.html) to say:

"This is a slap in the face to all brave service men and women and their families," DeMint said in a prepared statement. "The First Amendment gives the City of Berkeley the right to be idiotic, but from now on they should do it with their own money."

"If the city can’t show respect for the Marines that have fought, bled and died for their freedom, Berkeley should not be receiving special taxpayer-funded handouts," he added.

...

DeMint said he will draft legislation to rescind any earmarks dedicated for the City of Berkeley in the recently passed appropriations bill — which his office tallied to value about $2.1 million. He said that any money taken back would be transferred to the Marines.

DeMint's office provided a preliminary list of items that would be subject to his proposal:

— $975,000 for the University of California at Berkeley, for the Matsui Center for Politics and Public Service, which may include establishing an endowment, and for cataloguing the papers of Congressman Robert Matsui.

— $750,000 for the Berkeley/Albana ferry service.

— $243,000 for the Chez Panisse Foundation, for a school lunch initiative to integrate lessons about wellness, sustainability and nutrition into the academic curriculum.

— $94,000 for a Berkeley public safety interoperability program.

— $87,000 for the Berkeley Unified School District, nutrition education program.


Senator John Cornryn(R) joined in (http://cornyn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=ForPress.NewsReleases&ContentRecord_id=f0273640-802a-23ad-4b44-55f355726f91) in support of Demint.

“The Berkeley City Council insulted our troops and offended people across the country. If the U.S. Marines are not good enough for Berkeley, neither are taxpayer dollars Congress would have sent there this year. That city closed its doors on the same individuals taking bullets on the front lines while fighting for the safety and freedom of families in Berkeley and throughout America,” Sen. Cornyn said.

Once it hit the national stage, the ass-covering began (http://www.timesheraldonline.com/todaysnews/ci_8150358).

Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates offered Friday to help the U.S. Marines leave town by negotiating an end to the lease for their recruiting station, even as he backpedaled on a City Council resolution declaring the Corps "uninvited and unwelcome intruders" in the city.

In the face of an onslaught of pro-military criticism from around the country, Bates, a retired Army captain, also issued a statement that said the City Council's resolution Tuesday night "did not adequately differentiate our respect and support for those serving in the armed forces and our opposition to the Iraq war policy." He said he would ask the council to modify the resolution at its next meeting, scheduled for Feb. 12.

The Marines essentially told him to fuck off.

A Marines spokeswoman said Friday that the Corps has no intention of abandoning its space at 64 Shattuck Square that has been the subject of protests for month

DeMint drafted the legislation only to have it delayed (http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/reids-move-delayed-rap-on-berkeley-2008-02-11.html) by Senator Harry Reid (D) on Monday.

Instead of adjourning at the end of a day as usual, the Senate “recessed” twice, a move that, under Senate rules, slows the process of adding new bills to the calendar. Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) did not adjourn until last Friday, effectively pushing back floor consideration on the GOP bill until Tuesday — the same day that the city council is likely to tone down its call for Marine Corps recruiters to leave town.

Then yesterday, the Democrats placed an anonymous hold on the bill (http://demint.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=144775f9-cc16-f140-9849-099be1b903ab).

Senator DeMint introduced the Semper Fi Act to rescind over $2 million in hidden earmarks for Berkeley, California in the Fiscal Year 2008 Omnibus Appropriations bill, and transfer the funds to the Marine Corps. Until yesterday, Senate Democrat leaders used parliamentary maneuvers to block consideration of the bill. Last night, Republicans asked to pass the Semper Fi Act by unanimous consent after no Republican member opposed its passage, but Democrats have placed an anonymous hold on the bill.

Meanwhile, back in California, Code Pink had the following inanity (http://www.dailycal.org/article/100158/code_pink_stages_mock_debate_at_marines_center) to contribute:

"We are the defenders of democracy, the upholders of the Constitution," said Medea Benjamin, co-founder of Code Pink. "If it weren't for people like the people in Berkeley, standing up for what they believe, we'd be living under Hitler."

Without an opposing voice present, members of Code Pink and other activist groups including The World Can't Wait, Middle East Children's Alliance and Veterans for Peace, turned the debate into an anti-war protest

There were also reports (http://patdollard.com/2008/02/berkeley-outrage-cops-hang-up-on-refuse-to-aid-assaulted-pro-troopers/) of anti-Marines protesters physically accosting pro-troop protesters and people attempting to enter the recruiting office.

Move America Forward, the nation’s largest pro-troop organization, received permits from the City of Berkeley to hold a daylong demonstration in MLK park against the City Council who passed three outrageous resolutions calling U.S. Marines “unwanted intruders.”

“It is mayhem on here,” MAF communications director Danny Gonzalez said from the park early Tuesday morning.

Code Pink was permitted for across the street. The two sides were to stay separated, according to rules laid down by the city. But the city has a history of giving Code Pink special preference. The City Council gave free parking permits and a free noise permit to the radical group, which has helped fund terrorist families in Iraq with a $600,000 gift.

MAF Exeutive Director Catherine Moy attempted to get help from the Berkeley police as the mayhem unfolded, but an officer hung up on Moy. Moy asked the California Highway Patrol to help in the emergency, but the CHP refused.

Today, the Berkeley city council offered it's non-apology apology (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/13/BAM9V1H00.DTL):

Council members conceded that they had erred in passing a resolution Jan. 29 that condemned the Marines - rather than the war in Iraq - and some council members added that they felt they owed U.S. troops an apology as well the many Berkeley residents who were ashamed and offended by their position.

“To err is human but to really screw up it takes the Berkeley City Council,” said council member Gordon Wozniak. “We failed our city. We embarrassed our city.”

In the end, however, the council voted against issuing a public apology for its January action.

The officials said, however, that they strongly believe the Bush administration has used lies and deceit to lead the country into a war in which nearly 4,000 American troops have been killed. They also criticized the government for what they said was hiding the horrors of the war behind a “support our troops” mantra.

Notice, they don't retract the letter, change their policy, or offer an official public apology.

Meanwhile here's video of some of the "Code Pink", "The World Can't Wait" (*EDIT* I had originally erroneously listed "Move America Forward" instead of "The World Can't Wait" sorry about that, brain/fingers disconnect) other random anti-Marines groups physically preventing people from entering the office, while the police stand by.

XsyvpUL1F3k

I can only wonder how those police would have reacted had the scene been an abortion clinic with the pro-lifers employing the same protest tactics.

So now it's time for you guys to weigh in? Do you agree with the Berkeley Council's actions, and the protest techniques of Code Pink et. al? Do you agree with their position but reject their methods? Do you disagree completely? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.

Telefrog
02-13-2008, 03:35 PM
Berkley, as a whole, has a pretty (in)famous history of being very liberal. As a college town, that's almost to be expected anyway.

That said, the city council seems to be filled with douches of great magnitude that did not truly understand the gravitas of their initial protest letter. They certainly had no conception of the town's own economic dependence on federally funded college projects. Welcome to reality.

torrefaction
02-13-2008, 03:38 PM
Fuck these guys. They sure as hell don't deserve that money, kicking federally funded troops out of the city. Also, the Democrats that are holding this up are pansies.

Esquilax1138
02-13-2008, 03:39 PM
They have a right to protest the Iraq war and the policies and politicans who started it, but the actual troops should get all the support they can, they sure don't get enough from their own govt.

My hats off to anyone that has served their country in the armed forces, protesting the troops is just fucking stupid. Go march on washington if you like, and get the troops home safe if that is what you feel.

Maybe a couple years of mandatory military service for everyone is not such a bad idea, if only to give the people of a country a shared experience and sense of service to their country.

Service guarantees citizenship?

Mondopest
02-13-2008, 03:39 PM
"We are the defenders of democracy, the upholders of the Constitution," said Medea Benjamin, co-founder of Code Pink. "If it weren't for people like the people in Berkeley, standing up for what they believe, we'd be living under Hitler."

I love the irony in their statement, because those people they cite for us not living under Hitler would, in fact, be the US Army, Marines, Navy. I would include you flyboys but technically you were in the US Army Air Corps during WWII.

Heretic Machine
02-13-2008, 03:40 PM
Meh, just your standard extremist insanity.

Mot Wakorb
02-13-2008, 03:42 PM
I'll be honest - I was never in the military, but many of my friends and family were. I think this is a rash and stupid decision by Berkeley. It's fine to protest - but don't hate on the military for doing their jobs. These people choose to go into the armed forces for their own reasons, and especially now, it's even well known that you may end up in a place like Iraq, or anywhere else like that. At the same time, I think the government folks that're saying "if they don't want the military, they obviously don't want the tax money". I agree with that position. Even if you don't support Bush and his cronies, it's not the fault of the soldiers and such, so don't go booting them out.

walkstheplanes
02-13-2008, 03:42 PM
Yarg. I'm embarrassed for all the sane liberals in Berkeley.

Schnoogs
02-13-2008, 03:44 PM
Freedom of Speech vs. Blame the politicians not the troops

On one hand I think people should be able to protest whatever they want but on the other hand I just see this as directed the wrong way. I went to a pretty liberal college and a lot of people protested for the sake of protesting...their energy and intellect were severely misguided and often they did things for the wrong reason.

I just feel bad for the Marines who are shouldering an immense burden because of the decisions of a politician. Don't protest them...protest the local Republican meeting house or whatever.

Go to WWII...you're a hero. Go to Nam...you're a baby killer. Go to Iraq....according to Berkley you're not worthy enough for their city? :confused:

Lima Beans
02-13-2008, 03:45 PM
I can only wonder how those police would have reacted had the scene been an abortion clinic with the pro-lifers employing the same protest tactics.



/massive eyeroll

walkstheplanes
02-13-2008, 03:46 PM
Too much war fatigue. The governor has to convert more citizens into entertainers.

Schnoogs
02-13-2008, 03:48 PM
"We are the defenders of democracy, the upholders of the Constitution," said Medea Benjamin, co-founder of Code Pink. "If it weren't for people like the people in Berkeley, standing up for what they believe, we'd be living under Hitler."

Got to love psuedo-intellectuals. I guess warmongers like myself we're busy learning in high school that the US Marines were primarily operating in the Pacific theater while these liberal types were out making the world a better place.

Johan
02-13-2008, 03:48 PM
I can only wonder how those police would have reacted had the scene been an abortion clinic with the pro-lifers employing the same protest tactics.

/massive eyeroll

He has a point which I think is quite accurate. Might want to grab those eyes before they roll away! :D

Wraith
02-13-2008, 03:50 PM
They're really no better than the Westboro church that protests at veterans' funerals.

Protest the war, if you wish. Protest policy, protest military actions abroad. But if you look to kick the military out of your city, I hope you also offer to forfeit any protection you'd receive from them.

Are there any National Guard offices in Berkeley? Would they turn away National Guard aid, were they victims of a natural disaster?

Wraith
02-13-2008, 03:51 PM
Meanwhile here's video of some of the "Code Pink", "Move America Forward" and other random anti-Marines groups physically preventing people from entering the office, while the police stand by.From one of your quotes above, it looks like "Move America Forward" is a pro-Military organization.

Schnoogs
02-13-2008, 03:54 PM
Are there any National Guard offices in Berkeley? Would they turn away National Guard aid, were they victims of a natural disaster?

I would be willing to bet they would be out protesting that the Guard didn't show up fast enough.

I can see it now...9.0 on the Richter scale...telethons on 24 hours a day to raise money

Kanye West: "George Bush hate liberal people"

SuicideKing
02-13-2008, 03:55 PM
From one of your quotes above, it looks like "Move America Forward" is a pro-Military organization.

Shit, I meant to type the world can't wait and for some reason the other came out...

Slack3r78
02-13-2008, 03:55 PM
A lot of misdirected effort on all sides of this one.

torrefaction
02-13-2008, 03:55 PM
I think we should just divest Berkeley from the USA.

SuicideKing
02-13-2008, 03:56 PM
From one of your quotes above, it looks like "Move America Forward" is a pro-Military organization.

Shit, I meant to type "The World Can't Wait" (bozos in orange jumpsuits) and for some reason the other came out... I'll edit the original appropriately.

Also, I want to be 100% clear on this, I maintain that Code Pink should be allowed to say whatever the hell they want, my problem is the way they physically prevent people from entering and exiting the building. I also have problems with the city giving them free permits.

Schnoogs
02-13-2008, 03:58 PM
That video...how dispicable...god I wish shit like that would go down in Portland. I would be there in a heartbeat to make about 50 trips in and out of the recruiting office. I'd love to see how their wall holds up with me running straight into it. :p

Nuggsy
02-13-2008, 03:58 PM
I agree that everybody has their right to protest. I would add, however, that I've had much more intelligent conversation with the Armed Services recruiters in my life than I have had with most religious solicitors. That being said, I've never joined up with any of them. I've got the utmost respect for the men and women that enlist willingly, they're braver than I, but if you don't like listening to the recruiters, then just ask them to leave you alone. They're just fighting for your freedom, not trying to save your soul, so they tend to be a little less persistent. :D

walkstheplanes
02-13-2008, 03:59 PM
I think we should just divest Berkeley from the USA.

My favorite restaurants are there...:(

Schnoogs
02-13-2008, 04:00 PM
My favorite restaurants are there...:(

You have a passport don't you?

Slack3r78
02-13-2008, 04:01 PM
torrefaction fails at language

torrefaction
02-13-2008, 04:02 PM
torrefaction fails at language

That never happened. Walkstheplanes misquoted me.

walkstheplanes
02-13-2008, 04:03 PM
You have a passport don't you?

I have a feeling that removing Berkeley from the rest of California would turn it into a huge hobo city. I suppose my favorite restaurants would move elsewhere, but still.... the inconvenience of it all.

That never happened. Walkstheplanes misquoted me.

Fixed!

torrefaction
02-13-2008, 04:04 PM
I have a feeling that removing Berkeley from the rest of California would turn it into a huge hobo city. I suppose my favorite restaurants would move elsewhere, but still.... the inconvenience of it all.

Wow. What a great solution. Get the hobos AND the whackjob liberals (that's not all inclusive.) out of the country.

Win/Win

walkstheplanes
02-13-2008, 04:06 PM
Wow. What a great solution. Get the hobos AND the whackjob liberals (that's not all inclusive.) out of the country.

Win/Win

This would only be fair if we flew in all the right wing extremists and plopped them down in the city as well.

torrefaction
02-13-2008, 04:07 PM
This would only be fair if we flew in all the right wing extremists and plopped them down in the city as well.

Agreed. I'll setup the e-petition now, then?

Schnoogs
02-13-2008, 04:09 PM
This would only be fair if we flew in all the right wing extremists and plopped them down in the city as well.

At least they work for a living ;)

Wraith
02-13-2008, 04:10 PM
I have a feeling that removing Berkeley from the rest of California would turn it into a huge hobo city. I suppose my favorite restaurants would move elsewhere, but still.... the inconvenience of it all.You mean that hobos would flock there from across the country... or that the existing population would convert to hoboism after their economy goes down the crapper?

torrefaction
02-13-2008, 04:17 PM
You mean that hobos would flock there from across the country... or that the existing population would convert to hoboism after their economy goes down the crapper?

The answer is yes.

torrefaction
02-13-2008, 04:18 PM
This has nothing to do with anything, except for being hilarious.

eTosQerWBzU

Intruder
02-13-2008, 04:22 PM
This has nothing to do with anything, except for being hilarious.


LOL, about as ridiculously stupid as those far left Berkley Libs.

Slack3r78
02-13-2008, 04:24 PM
I FIGHT VAMPIRES
</tard>

Vermillion
02-13-2008, 04:25 PM
I have no problem with them protesting the military and/or the war and/or the president. That's fine and their right. A right they have because the military protects them foreign rule.

Your country is only a strong as those who are willing to die for it. It's only as weak as those who will curtail the rights of others for their own personal gain.

Berkeley City Council should be ashamed and replaced. The fact that they won't even say "mea culpa", shows what a bunch of elitest dicks they are.

walkstheplanes
02-13-2008, 04:35 PM
Agreed. I'll setup the e-petition now, then?

http://www.petitiononline.com/dbftusa/petition.html

This exists because I hate my job today.
don't bother signing it, i just made it 'cause I was bored
In retrospect, I should have requested dinosaurs holding weapons also be placed in the city, but oh well. Back to work!

Johan
02-13-2008, 04:37 PM
I love the two senators from my state. Jim DeMint is a true conservative, and Lindey Graham is an open-minded and accommodating "aisle crosser."

We're well represented here in SC.

BTW: Harry Reid is an asshole, and anonymous holds are what make American democracy strong. :rolleyes:

IrishWhiskey
02-13-2008, 04:42 PM
I think that asking the Marine recruiters to leave the city in general is a dickish move.


Although I don't support the city council in their criticism of the Marines, I do support Reid in stopping the bill that would punish the city by taking away money. There are better ways to resolve this pissing contest than by attacking school lunch programs.

“To err is human but to really screw up it takes the Berkeley City Council,” said council member Gordon Wozniak. “We failed our city. We embarrassed our city.”That pretty much sums it up.
.

Slack3r78
02-13-2008, 05:58 PM
There are better ways to resolve this pissing contest than by attacking school lunch programs.
Pretty much what I was getting at when I said both sides are guilty of misdirected priorities.

Darkbase
02-13-2008, 06:17 PM
This entire thread was nearly full of knee-jerk reactions and idiotic comments (both from the groups and senators in the story, and the posters here) until I reached the bottom of page 1. I've always wanted to say this: thank God for Irish. Renewing my faith in humanity and defending sanity when all seems lost since I can remember on this site.

Schnoogs
02-13-2008, 06:43 PM
This entire thread was nearly full of knee-jerk reactions and idiotic comments (both from the groups and senators in the story, and the posters here) until I reached the bottom of page 1. I've always wanted to say this: thank God for Irish. Renewing my faith in humanity and defending sanity when all seems lost since I can remember on this site.

http://www.assassinworks.com/**********

Generation ABXY
02-13-2008, 07:04 PM
I think it is all well and good that the protestors are willing to exercise their free speech, you know, like so many (though not all) of those soldiers they hate so vehemently have fought and died for throughout history. However, I don’t agree with them blocking the door like that – that they have no right to do - and that “neutral” cop should have intervened the first time it happened.

As for the city council, that’s the same sort of stuff we’ve seen in Washington this past year: lots of “symbolic” (read: impotent) politics and so much backpedaling it could power half the damn country with the right generator. There’s your alternative energy! :rolleyes:

Darkbase
02-13-2008, 07:14 PM
http://www.assassinworks.com/**********

Are we posting overused .gifs because we can't put our asinine comments into words? Okay, I'll play!

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/darkbase/yr5xiwn4gkya.gif

Johan
02-13-2008, 07:18 PM
Are we posting overused .gifs because we can't put our asinine comments into words? Okay, I'll play!

You cheated. You used words.

Irony.

Darkbase
02-13-2008, 07:27 PM
You cheated. You used words.

Irony.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/darkbase/FacePalm_qjgenth.jpg

Wraith
02-13-2008, 07:34 PM
Watching that video now...wow. Those people are pathetic. They fail at protesting. And being decent human beings.

Schnoogs
02-13-2008, 07:34 PM
You cheated. You used words.

Irony.

pwnage +10

Deadend
02-13-2008, 07:37 PM
Meh, Berkley has no other recruiting offices.

This just means the marines could focus on those who wish to join, save themselves some money, and time of recruiting officers. Everyone wins.

Mostly, it's a bunch of hippies who feel guilt about getting older, putting on a suit and dropping their ideals in exchange for nice houses and power. Their flower power guilt makes them take stupid stances that make no difference.

So what is the stance of the Marines on this?

Johan
02-13-2008, 07:38 PM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b221/darkbase/FacePalm_qjgenth.jpg

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/CAMB/27540~You-Can-Do-Better-Posters.jpg

Ultima Thulian
02-14-2008, 11:33 AM
Great. As if I needed another reason to hate California.