Who are you more afraid of?

[cp#]

I'm scared shitless of the TSA, personally.

[Dr.Finger]

The TSA is too incompetent to be scary.

[JediSanf]

Hmm, I can shoot a terrorist....

[CES]

Since i'm not american, i'm presuming you are talking about the Transportation Security Administration. Personally, i havent seen any reports of the TSA indiscriminately killing people so it'll have to be the terrorists on this one.

[Schnoogs]

When TSA starts flying planes into buildings I'll be terrified of them...until then this just seems like classic FUD and govt. bashing.

Or when TSA employees are guilty of the following...

Danish authorities said Tuesday they have arrested three people who allegedly were plotting a "terror-related assassination" of a cartoonist whose drawing of the Prophet Mohammed sparked rage in the Muslim world two years ago.


The cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed provoked widespread outrage in the Muslim world two years ago.

[Johan]

Seriously?

The worst the TSA can do to me is cause me to wait excessively long in a stupid line. Terrorists? If they could, they would cut the throats of my entire family, and anyone who wants to fuck with my kids will find me wanting to obliterate them...happily, too.

Just the thought gears me up, man. Screw with my kids...%*$& :mad:

[Schnoogs]

Seriously?

The worst the TSA can do to me is cause me to wait excessively long in a stupid line. Terrorists? If they could, they would cut the throats of my entire family, and anyone who wants to fuck with my kids will find me wanting to obliterate them...happily, too.

Just the thought gears me up, man. Screw with my kids...%*$& :mad:

This thread is classic "If you're not questioning your government then YOU'RE the naive one"

I'm sure TSA will have it's share of controversy just like every other govt. agency but come on people...we're comparing TSA to groups whose life purpose is to kill innocent people. :confused:

To be honest I'm far more nervous about the local police.

[NationalKato]

This is a stupid thread.

[Schnoogs]

This is a stupid thread.

50% seem to disagree with you which is TERRIFYING.

[cp#]

Oops dead baby (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080212/NEWS01/802120340/1190/NEWS01)

[Johan]

Oops dead baby (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080212/NEWS01/802120340/1190/NEWS01)

Weak example.

How long were they detained? Twenty minutes? A baby doesn't exactly experience "stress leading to a heart attack" at the idea of being in a locked room. If the detention was a short period of time as they say (just twenty minutes), would they have been in a hospital within that period for care? If not, the baby would have died elsewhere. Why were they detained? It's kinda nice to know that a traveling party that claims to have a sick baby can't just "pass automatically through security" you know...or that might be a nice method to do just that!

Weak example. Needs more details.

This is a stupid fucking poll, and I can't believe anyone would say that the TSA is more dangerous than a terrorist. Seriously...the biggest thing to fear from a government employee in America is that you'll die of boredom or that they suck at their job.

[CES]

And why didnt the mother or the nurse raise the alarm since the article seems to imply they were right there with the kid? Tragic, but not clear cut

[Generation ABXY]

Oops dead baby (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080212/NEWS01/802120340/1190/NEWS01)

Thank you for showing me the error of my ways - the terrorists would never kill anyone! Can I change my vote?

[cp#]

You must be forgetting that they can detain you (citizen or not) for anything. The terrorists can't do a fucking thing to me, and it isn't because they can't catch a flight over.

[Wraith]

TSA? Heh. The ones you really have to watch out for are the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. You don't think they brought back wolves, eagles, and grizzly bears from near extinction solely for biodiversity, do you?


http://www.americazoo.com/kids/graphics/GRIZZLY.jpg

[Generation ABXY]

You must be forgetting that they can detain you (citizen or not) for anything. The terrorists can't do a fucking thing to me, and it isn't because they can't catch a flight over.

Yes, and I'm sure those people in the Twin Towers in NY and on a bus in England were thinking the things like the TSA were their biggest worry, too. The TSA's policy isn't to hold people in a room until they die, much as you may like to think otherwise...

[Schnoogs]

Oops dead baby (http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080212/NEWS01/802120340/1190/NEWS01)

You got us...TSA's actually purpose is to kill and murder. :rolleyes:

[Xerxes]

Afraid? No no no no. Annoied and would love to crack over the head? You can sign the TSA up for that. Them assholes made me walk through, no beep, then told me to walk back through and get my shoes and belt, beep, then told me to go stand on the side so they could wand me. Then while I had my upset face on, they had a fucking message over the airport that seemed like it was directed at me.

[cp#]

TSA? Heh. The ones you really have to watch out for are the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. You don't think they brought back wolves, eagles, and grizzly bears from near extinction solely for biodiversity, do you?


http://www.americazoo.com/kids/graphics/GRIZZLY.jpg

Your observations are keen but their biggest crime is the protection of... Sandhill Cranes

[Tel Prydain]

Hillary Clinton!

[LongStepMantis]

Neither.
I fear 2 things.

Heights...and the Jabberwock.
Anything else is just amusing and/or annoying, but I'm jaded like that.
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!"

[Schnoogs]

What's scarier this thread or that weighlifting, Indian midget?

[NationalKato]

What's scarier this thread or that weighlifting, Indian midget?

You mean Mini-Everclear Dude?

[SuicideKing]

My initial reaction, WTF is he talking about, I must be missing some inside joke. Second reaction, "Oh dear he appears to be somewhat serious, he linked a story that apparently prompted this thread". Third and final reaction "he might actually be serious, at the very least his comment regarding TSA being able to affect him while his being immune to terrorists points to that possibility. To maintain my faith in the overall rationality of humanity, I'm going to assume this is a joke, and the OP is simply ill-informed and has poor taste."

The End.

[Deadend]

The TSA is so stupid it's scary. They have blacklists, bureaucracy and treat people like shit. Worst of all, if you defy them, your considered to be a terrorist.

ZOMG GAIS! If you do not like the TSA, your a terrorist! By not freaking out and being scared shitless of muslims you let the terrorists win!

[Schnoogs]

The TSA is so stupid it's scary. They have blacklists, bureaucracy and treat people like shit. Worst of all, if you defy them, your considered to be a terrorist.

ZOMG GAIS! If you do not like the TSA, your a terrorist! By not freaking out and being scared shitless of muslims you let the terrorists win!

http://johnxlewis.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/tin_foil_hat.jpg

[Voodoo]

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/7720/tinfoilhat2cy2.jpg

[Schnoogs]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1250/876370530_888a03faa9_o.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g24/bouwerieboy/catInTinfoil.jpg

[Deadend]

Not trying hard, those are all page 1 on google.

[Voodoo]

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f49/a1b2c3_Poster/tinfoilhat.jpg

[Schnoogs]

http://rightvoices.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/tinfoil-hat.jpg
http://www.themongoose.co.uk/img/tinfoil/tinfoil_hat_wearers_for_bush.jpg
http://bp2.blogger.com/_UMJPRMUyTLA/RqexgqVPTTI/AAAAAAAAAAs/PufHzLAIvG4/s400/n522306244_197290_3718.jpg

[Gilius Thunderhead]

While I may fear the TSA, I fear them because they are incompetent, which is something that makes me afraid precisely because the terrorists scare me more.

[better]

What is meaning of TSA? Well, i m afraid of Terrorists .

[Grifter]

Yes, we know your a pussy. Your point?

I see how it is, remove the post I'm replying to but leave me hanging...thanks! :D

[Heretic Machine]

I guess I'm not afraid of either of them, really... I don't fly, and the odds of a terrorist killing me just don't rank anywhere on my scale of risk. I'm infinitely more afraid of getting struck by lightning, or dieing in a car accident. If I ever did fly, I'm sure the TSA would jump up temporarily on my list of risk factors.

[OUX]

The TSA come at night... mostly.

[AspectVoid]

I wish neither was an option (since I'm not really scared of either of them) but since it wasn't, I went with Terrorists. I know when the TSA is gonna screw me over, but Terrorists could pop up any time to make the day worse then it already is.

[OUX]

Just a thought but if you choose terrorist does that mean they win?

[Schnoogs]

The TSA come at night... mostly.

(wipes hands through TSA blood on a fern tree)

"If TSA bleeds...we can kill them"

[Oxonian]

You must be forgetting that they can detain you (citizen or not) for anything.
Shit, fool, I can detain you for anything and make you put the lotion on your skin or else you get the hose again. Be scared of me.

[Beelzebud]

I'm not afraid of either, personally.

[Itchyeyes]

TSA. I have never encountered a terrorist, and it's quite likely that I never will. The TSA on the other hand manages to make my life a living hell about once every other month. Most of the stuff the TSA does falls under the category of just general annoyance, but if those people feel like it (and poorly paid, unskilled workers with practically 100% job security often do feel like it), they have the power to really fuck up your day/week and you have practically no recourse.

[Schnoogs]

Shit, fool, I can detain you for anything and make you put the lotion on your skin or else you get the hose again. Be scared of me.

Thanks for a sig worthy post!!!!!

http://www.assassinworks.com/**********

[torrefaction]

I'm not going to vote in this poll, because it's fucking retarded.

[Schnoogs]

TSA. I have never encountered a terrorist, and it's quite likely that I never will. The TSA on the other hand manages to make my life a living hell about once every other month. Most of the stuff the TSA does falls under the category of just general annoyance, but if those people feel like it, they have the power to really fuck up your day/week and you have practically no recourse.

My advice is wrap yourself in bubblewrap and just lie in bed all day. There are social programs out there that will take care of your nutritional and hygienic needs.

Seriously...the world is just a big scary place and the government is the worst of them all

(Big brother is watching you right now)

[torrefaction]

I looked at the poll. Really? Are you people fucking kidding me?

I didn't realize the stupidity ratio was so high around here.

[Citizen Philip]

IR 'fraid of dumb people.

[mr. murphy]

To be fair, the poll isn't "which is more dangerous" or "which should you be more afraid of" it's "which ARE you more afraid of".

I'm not afraid of terrorists. The chances of a terrorist attack affecting somebody I love are so incredibly miniscule as to be infinitesimal. Being afraid of terrorists is like being afraid of getting struck by lightning.

We should prepare for, defend against and pro-actively battle terrorism. Fearing it is just pointless.

I have spent more time worried about how the TSA will change my life than I have terrorism, but I'm not afraid of the TSA either, so I didn't vote in this rather odd poll.

[Schnoogs]

To be fair, the poll isn't "which is more dangerous" or "which should you be more afraid of" it's "which ARE you more afraid of".


This "clarification" only made me more confused. :confused:

[mr. murphy]

This "clarification" only made me more confused. :confused:

I'm not afraid of plenty of things I probably should be. Living in fear is bad for you. If you asked me which I should be more afraid of, I'd say the terrorists. But the poll did not ask that so I didn't feel right answering.

[MJBuddy]

I don't particularly fear the TSA.

Because you know, I'm not a big walking vagina.

[Schnoogs]

I'm not afraid of plenty of things I probably should be. Living in fear is bad for you. If you asked me which I should be more afraid of, I'd say the terrorists. But the poll did not ask that so I didn't feel right answering.

It's very difficult for me to comprehend being more afraid of a bunch of baggage checkers over individuals whose LIFE PURPOSE is to KILL innocent civilians.

Does not compute.

[mr. murphy]

It's very difficult for me to comprehend being more afraid of a bunch of baggage checkers over individuals whose LIFE PURPOSE is to KILL innocent civilians.

Does not compute.

I didn't say I was more afraid of a bunch of baggage carriers. I said I was not afraid of either.

Please don't put words in my mouth when they are right there for all to read. Your lack of reading comprehension is showing.

[Beelzebud]

Live your life in fear of The Terrorists (I guess they're an entity now), and the terrorists win.

[mr. murphy]

Live your life in fear of The Terrorists (I guess they're an entity now), and the terrorists win.

This sounds like so much party line rhetoric until you think about the title "TERRORIST" and realize that it's completely, literally correct.

[Schnoogs]

I didn't say I was more afraid of a bunch of baggage carriers. I said I was not afraid of either.

Please don't put words in my mouth when they are right there for all to read. Your lack of reading comprehension is showing.

Your inability to articulate yourself is what's showing.

/ end of conversation

[OUX]

Live your life in fear of The Terrorists (I guess they're an entity now), and the terrorists win.

I posed this a page ago. Psh

[Sly Marbo]

The fear of baggage handlers is no laughing matter. They look just like you or me and they're every where.

[torrefaction]

You people are honestly afraid of the TSA?

Shit...I haven't even barely noticed the difference except for the year immediately following 9/11. Flying always seems extremely easy to me.

OH NOEZ I HAS TO TAKEZ MY SHUZ OFF

[OUX]

You people are honestly afraid of the TSA?

Shit...I haven't even barely noticed the difference except for the year immediately following 9/11. Flying always seems extremely easy to me.

OH NOEZ I HAS TO TAKEZ MY SHUZ OFF

I could make a Venn diagram explaining it if it will help.:p

[Bone]

Mr. Murphy has a point. The threat of terrorism is valid, but the likelihood of any one person being a victim of terrorism is infinitely low. You may as well worry about getting hit by a meteorite.

Not that the TSA is in any way threatening, at all, so the correct answer is still "terrorist" in this poll. But you could get equal results asking "which are you more afraid of, a puppy, or getting struck by a bus?"

[torrefaction]

Mr. Murphy has a point. The threat of terrorism is valid, but the likelihood of any one person being a victim of terrorism is infinitely low. You may as well worry about getting hit by a meteorite.

Not that the TSA is in any way threatening, at all, so the correct answer is still "terrorist" in this poll. But you could get equal results asking "which are you more afraid of, a puppy, or getting struck by a bus?"

I would never argue that people should live in active fear of terrorism. I am afraid, to some extent, of then taking control of Iraq if we withdraw, and what the repercussions would be. I am afraid that they will succeed in forcing America to live in a police state. I am also afraid that they will succeed in forcing us into bankruptcy. Some of these fears are in contradiction with each other, and I recognize that.

My fear does not affect me. My fear does not control me. My fear galvanizes me to ensure that I do not change my life for terrorism. Every time I hear about someone afraid to fly because of 9/11, I want to punch them in the face for letting the terrorists control their lives.

But I cannot believe this many people actually voted for the TSA. A government agency that does far more good than it does harm. It makes me disappointed in people, and sad that people would consider that a legitimate option.

*Edit*

@Oux:I demand a Venn Diagram, and I demand you edit it THIRTY TIMES in the course of the thread.

[OUX]

http://www.snowdesign.com/img/pf_nofear1.gif

[Schnoogs]

I'm afraid of postal workers.

THEY READ OUR MAIL!!!!

[Yellowman]

I voted for the TSA since being afraid of the terrorists would be letting them win :p

[IrishWhiskey]

I'm fucking terrified of the TSA (http://www.turtlesurvival.org/).

We need to wipe out the turtles, before they wipe us out.

[shnastybiznastic]

I'm not really afraid of terrorism, so the big scary government agency gets my vote.

[MJBuddy]

Irony in the crossover of people who believe the gov't can't handle airport security BUT we should trust them with our retirement funds and socialized systems.

[torrefaction]

Irony in the crossover of people who believe the gov't can't handle airport security BUT we should trust them with our retirement funds and socialized systems.

Yes. I love this. It is hilarious to me.

[Schnoogs]

Irony in the crossover of people who believe the gov't can't handle airport security BUT we should trust them with our retirement funds and socialized systems.

Perhaps they're inept at both for different reasons.

Apples and Oranges my friend.

[torrefaction]

Perhaps they're inept at both for different reasons.

Apples and Oranges my friend.

I think the government is just inefficient at running things because there's no market pressure and incredibly high job security. This is pretty well documented. I don't think it's for different reasons at all. Bureaucracy = Red Tape = Inefficiency.

[Schnoogs]

I think the government is just inefficient at running things because there's no market pressure and incredibly high job security. This is pretty well documented. I don't think it's for different reasons at all. Bureaucracy = Red Tape = Inefficiency.

A massive over simplification. Certainly what you describe has something to do with it but every agency is different.

You don't think there's a difference because you're viewing the problem at the 10,000 foot view. It's apples and oranges when you look at things up close.

You seriously think TSA and say the IRS are bound by the same problems because they're both run by the government. In one case you're talking about low skilled, blue collar workers who were essentially "conscripted" by the government and on the other white collar professionals. I'm sure at some level they run into bureaucracy problems but is it really that simple?

I don't think so.

[NationalKato]

*peeks in*

Wow, you people are still in this turd of a thread? *shrug*

[mr. murphy]

Your inability to articulate yourself is what's showing.

/ end of conversation
You might have thought that I didn't want to justify such an obviously mistaken statement with a response, but in fact, I was just at lunch!

Dude, I don't know why you're ripping into me. I made a statement, you responded with a straw-man argument, I repeated my initial statement.

I am not afraid of terrorists or the TSA. Third time's the charm right? Or is that still too inarticulate for you? Would it help if I put periods between the words so you could pretend I was speaking slowly?

Inarticulate, from the Schnoogs dictionary: "you said something but I decided you said something else so you must not be good at words" ;)

In all honesty, I'm assuming we agree on the key issue here - terrorism is bad and the TSA is our attempt to battle it, so even if the TSA has a few flaws, it's a good thing. However, I don't appreciate being called inarticulate when I take such care to be clear when I post - this is also why I don't appreciate being responded to as if I said one thing when I said another.

Straw man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) arguments make you look smart to the ill-informed, and make your arguments seem weak to those who are paying attention. I recommend you learn to avoid them.

Wow I sound like a pretentious prick!

[torrefaction]

A massive over simplification. Certainly what you describe has something to do with it but every agency is different.

You don't think there's a difference because you're viewing the problem at the 10,000 foot view. It's apples and oranges when you look at things up close.

You seriously think TSA and say the IRS are bound by the same problems because they're both run by the government. In one case you're talking about low skilled, blue collar workers who were essentially "conscripted" by the government and on the other white collar professionals. I'm sure at some level they run into bureaucracy problems but is it really that simple?

I don't think so.

Dude. Have you TALKED to the people at the IRS? I mean, yes, many of them are white collar professionals. Just the same as the people behind the scenes of the TSA are probably pretty sharp, in all fairness. But the people who answer the phones, and handle the base collections...they're not different than the people at the windows of the Clerk of the Courts. That is NOT praise.

I don't think it's an over simplification at all. I'd be hard pressed to believe that any particular job the government does, a private company with proper competitive pressure wouldn't do a significantly better job. It's been shown time and time again that government run agencies are fairly inefficient.

I'd say the military, to some extent, is the exception. Many military programs are the height of efficiency. There are flaws there too, but I don't think anyone would criticize the efficiency of the Marine Corps during actual operations.

The root of this is in all likelihood the heavy amount of discipline and control the superiors have, without having to worry about lawsuits for the most part. The problem is one idiot officer tends to screw things up for LOTS of subordinates.

[MJBuddy]

Job security pretty much destroys productivity, as it should.

I mean, why should I work at 100% if getting paid the same for barely working at all?

It doesn't matter if you're white collar or don't have a high school degree - if anything, the white collar worker knows better to screw around because he understands better what he can and can't be fired for.

[Schnoogs]

Have you TALKED to the people at the IRS? .

My dad worked for the IRS for 30 years and just retired. I don't recall his last job title but he was one of several guys on the entire West Coast who audited large US corporations. I had a keen insight into the sorts of problems that exist within the IRS.

I was able to contrast that with my 8 years as a government employee in the Army. I was also able to contrast that with my mothers experience working for the District Attorney and then the Federal Defenders office.

Yes I come from a family of government workers. I can assure you that each and every one of us faced what you called "bureaucracy or red tape" issues BUT we also faced many unique challenges and issues.

Like I said...I don't think it's as cut and dry as you described it. What's plaguing TSA overlaps Social Security in SOME areas and DOESN'T in other areas.

[torrefaction]

Yes I come from a family of government workers. I can assure you that each and every one of us faced what you called "bureaucracy or red tape" issues BUT we also faced many unique challenges and issues.

Like I said...I don't think it's as cut and dry as you described it. What's plaguing TSA overlaps Social Security in SOME areas and DOESN'T in other areas.

Well of COURSE there are unique challenges to different programs. I don't know why you're acting like I claimed it doesn't. The cut and dry part is that the government is not agile in responding to issues in a dynamic way primarily because of red tape and bureaucracy. A typical government employee does not generally have the motivation to produce that a private sector employee does. This is not always the case, but more often than not, it true.

Without competition, there is no need to consistently improve the processes. Because of the job security issues, people who are inefficient at their jobs never leave, and many times, end up promoted. I don't think this is even arguable. A lack of competition in a free market tends to produce little innovation and less consumer cost cuts. You can view government agencies as a ton of individual markets without competitors, and you'll hopefully see what I'm driving at.

[MJBuddy]

Well of COURSE there are unique challenges to different programs. I don't know why you're acting like I claimed it doesn't. The cut and dry part is that the government is not agile in responding to issues in a dynamic way primarily because of red tape and bureaucracy. A typical government employee does not generally have the motivation to produce that a private sector employee does. This is not always the case, but more often than not, it true.

Without competition, there is no need to consistently improve the processes. Because of the job security issues, people who are inefficient at their jobs never leave, and many times, end up promoted. I don't think this is even arguable. A lack of competition in a free market tends to produce little innovation and less consumer cost cuts. You can view government agencies as a ton of individual markets without competitors, and you'll hopefully see what I'm driving at.

I love playing Monopoly. Guess I'll go work for the gov't and play Monopoly every day!

[cp#]

*peeks in*

Wow, you people are still in this turd of a thread? *shrug*

Don't shit on my thread, buddy. The TSA (http://www.turtlesurvival.org/) is a very real threat

[Schnoogs]

Straw man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) arguments make you look smart to the ill-informed, and make your arguments seem weak to those who are paying attention. I recommend you learn to avoid them.!

I'll have to dig through my history and find that post I made where I call out people who resort to the inevitable "Straw man defense". Accusing someone of a straw man argument is itself one of the worst rhetorical ploys.

If in doubt drop the "straw man defense".

Spare me the yawn inducing responses...

[Schnoogs]

Well of COURSE there are unique challenges to different programs. I don't know why you're acting like I claimed it doesn't. .


Hmmm...why would I think that???? :confused:

I don't think it's for different reasons at all.

Oh yeah!! That's why!! :p

[IrishWhiskey]

I'll have to dig through my history and find that post I made where I call out people who resort to the inevitable "Straw man defense". Accusing someone of a straw man argument is itself one of the worst rhetorical ploys.

If in doubt drop the "straw man defense".You mean the " 'straw man defense' defense". The "straw man defense" is using a straw man to try and rebut a valid point. The " 'straw man defense' defense" is unjustly accusing someone of using a "strawman defense". And the "" 'straw man defense' defense (defense)" is...just plain silly.

[Schnoogs]

You mean the " 'straw man defense' defense". The "straw man defense" is using a straw man to try and rebut a valid point. The " 'straw man defense' defense" is unjustly accusing someone of using a "strawman defense". And the "" 'straw man defense' defense (defense)" is...just plain silly.

It's posts like this for which I love Whiskey! :p

[Telefrog]

It's posts like this for which I love Whiskey! :p

"Straw-man" and "ad hominem" are two terms I wish every ass on the internet would stop using whenever a debate goes south.

Not every rebuttal is a straw-man or a personal attack.

[Bad_Buddha]

Mr. Murphy has a point. The threat of terrorism is valid, but the likelihood of any one person being a victim of terrorism is infinitely low. You may as well worry about getting hit by a meteorite.

Not that the TSA is in any way threatening, at all, so the correct answer is still "terrorist" in this poll. But you could get equal results asking "which are you more afraid of, a puppy, or getting struck by a bus?"

I'm going to go with the TSA; because in the big scheme of things, they are much more likely to screw up my day while traveling than the infinitesimal chance of a terrorist having any impact on my life at all.

At a Sea-Tac security check, I saw one of these a-holes shaking a pair of toenail scissors in an 80-tear old man's face while he scolded the old guy about the dangers involved with this type of "weapon".

[Schnoogs]

At a Sea-Tac security check, I saw one of these a-holes shaking a pair of toenail scissors in an 80-tear old man's face while he scolded the old guy about the dangers involved with this type of "weapon".

Wow...that IS terrifying. :confused: