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View Full Version : Super Tuesday - Welcome to the Recession


fitbabits
02-05-2008, 12:30 PM
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- A growing number of top economists believe that the U.S. economy has now toppled into recession.

Alarm bells were set off Tuesday by a grim report on service businesses, which make up the majority of the U.S. economy.

The Institute of Supply Management said that activity in the service sector declined for the first time in nearly five years. This report also indicated that employers are cutting staff.

The survey covers the retail, transportation and health care industries as well as hard hit areas such as finance, real estate and construction.

Some economists argued that the normally low-profile ISM services reading, coupled with the government's report Friday showing the first monthly net loss in jobs in more than four years, is proof that recession is now a reality.

"My forecast had been that the recession would begin this quarter, but the hard data wasn't there yet," said Keith Hembre, chief economist of First American Funds. "But now we're seeing that. The service sector is a much larger component of the economy [than manufacturing] and this is very much a recession reading."

The National Bureau of Economic Research is the official arbiter of whether the economy has entered recession. But the NBER typically does not declare a recession until well after one has begun.

Weakness spreading

Economists took the latest report as a sign that problems are no longer restricted to just housing and manufacturing.

"We're definitely seeing conditions spread to more parts of the economy. The big drop in business activity, that's a huge red flag," said Gus Faucher, director of macroeconomics for Moody's Economy.com.

Faucher said his firm now believes the economy is in a recession but he believes it's possible that growth will resume in the second half of this year.

However, Faucher noted this will depend upon additional rate cuts from the Federal Reserve, coupled with Congress quickly passing a proposed $150 billion stimulus package. That package includes $600 tax rebates for most U.S. taxpayers and some temporary tax cuts for businesses.

Economist Bob Brusca of FAO Economics said he doubted that the U.S. was in recession a week ago, but now he believes there's about a 75% chance that a recession began in January.

"That's what recessions do. They come upon you all of a sudden," he said. "When you look back at history, you're struck by how even-keel it is until the bottom just falls out."

What's next for the Fed

Besides the ISM and jobs report, Brusca said he was concerned about the results of the Federal Reserve's survey of senior lending officers released Monday. The survey showed a tightening of lending standards for business and residential loans in the past three months.

According to a statement from the Fed, lenders are reporting a "reduced tolerance for risk" as the reason why they are being more cautious.

And even for the relatively safe "prime" residential loans made to borrowers with good credit, 55% of lenders surveyed by the Fed reported tighter lending standards.

Brusca said this is a major concern for the central bank. "The Fed has been leaning on banks to not tighten so much," he said.

Worries about banks tightening their lending standards is one reason why the Fed announced two large rate cuts in just the course of eight days in late January, reducing the key federal funds rate from 4.25% to 3%.

Most economists aren't looking for additional cuts of that magnitude, but they do expect more cuts.

Even Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond President Jeffrey Lacker, who is known primarily for being more concerned about inflation than economic growth, said in a speech Tuesday that "the prominence of downside risks means that further easing ultimately may be warranted." Lacker does not get to vote on monetary policy decisions this year, however.

Lacker added that "sluggish growth in the near term" -- not an actual recession -- is the most likely economic scenario. But he did not completely rule out the possibility of a "mild recession, similar to the last two we have experienced."

Moody's Economy.com is forecasting cuts totaling three-quarters of a percentage point over the next three scheduled Fed meetings in March, April and May.

But the markets want more drastic action by the Fed. The Chicago Board of Trade's fed fund futures are pricing in a 30% chance of a quarter-point cut this month, when the Fed isn't even scheduled to meet.

Those futures are also pricing in a 100% chance of a quarter-point cut in March, and a 28% chance of a half-point cut during the month, up from virtually no chance of a half-point cut ahead of Tuesday's ISM report.
I can't remember ever feeling as devoid of hope for the US (in most every regard).

Schnoogs
02-05-2008, 01:01 PM
I can't remember ever feeling as devoid of hope for the US (in most every regard).

We survived 9/11 and 8 years of Bush. We'll get over this.

TheKeck
02-05-2008, 01:05 PM
My wife just booked plane tickets, hotel rooms, train tickets, and more. I'm doing my part!

fitbabits
02-05-2008, 04:27 PM
We survived 9/11 and 8 years of Bush. We'll get over this.

I fear the aftershocks of Bush's time in office will be felt for generations, not just eight years.

Zanzibar
02-05-2008, 04:30 PM
That's the thing - the Republicans might as well just thumb their nose and not run a candidate this year. No matter who takes office, the country is screwed, so it'll take longer than 3 years to even see any improvements. The GOP should just wait until 2012 and point to the Dem President and say 'See? S/he didn't turn the country around! Vote for us!'

Johan
02-05-2008, 04:42 PM
Capitalism: It's what's for dinner. (http://www.uoregon.edu/~rbear/modest.html)

SuicideKing
02-05-2008, 04:43 PM
Heh, count me as not a member of the doom and gloom club.

I fear the aftershocks of Bush's time in office will be felt for generations, not just eight years.

I can guess which way you think the impact will be, but I think I'm probably just going to have to disagree 100% on that one. Can't think of a single solitary thing he screwed up that couldn't be fixed within the next decade, he came close with the crap amnesty immigration proposal, but thankfully that got shot down.

baggle
02-05-2008, 10:31 PM
Slowdowns and recessions happen. It's all part of the circle of life. Economic booms happen, too, and are just as temporary.

walkstheplanes
02-06-2008, 02:20 AM
Slowdowns and recessions happen. It's all part of the circle of life. Economic booms happen, too, and are just as temporary.

I agree... You just can't help recession. This will be my first one as a "grown up" making my own money and whatnot, so I have no idea what the impact will be.

GrinR
02-06-2008, 02:40 AM
Last year of Clinton saw the same thing. First year of Dubya, he inherited a swiftly plummeting economy. This year? Everyone I know is working, and making $$$. Anyone remember the 7K range for the Dow? I do. Great time to buy stock. What is it now? 12K?

Oh yeah, during a war.

Bush may be a stuttering idiot, but I'm laughing all the way to the bank.

blackzc
02-07-2008, 10:22 AM
I can't remember ever feeling as devoid of hope for the US (in most every regard).


Your 39 and you never have been so devoid of hope? Do you not remember the 70s 80s? We are fine. Your perspective is all out of wack IMO.

blackzc
02-07-2008, 10:24 AM
I fear the aftershocks of Bush's time in office will be felt for generations, not just eight years.

Can you elaborate on that, because honestly i feel the same as i did in 1997. Its like a fucking broken record the way you guys repeat this stuff over and over.

MJBuddy
02-08-2008, 12:27 AM
We're all going to get through it.

That's the fun trick of being an Econ major, you really just realizing that life is about just...getting through the bad because there's good down the way.

fitbabits
02-08-2008, 12:28 AM
Your 39 and you never have been so devoid of hope? Do you not remember the 70s 80s? We are fine. Your perspective is all out of wack IMO.

See, I've only been in the USA since 1999. Thanks for paying attention, though.

Xerxes
02-08-2008, 12:42 AM
Spending GrinR's money will make this all better. :D

Church42
02-08-2008, 05:20 PM
Nice thing about this looming recession is that it's making most stocks relatively cheaper and I'm saving a bunch of money to get good stocks on the cheap.

blackzc
02-09-2008, 11:37 AM
See, I've only been in the USA since 1999. Thanks for paying attention, though.


OK, so you dont know what your talking about. This is nothing. This country is constant drama its what we do. Its not the end of the world, the dollar will bounce back, the war be over and another republican is going to win.:D


Speaking man to man here you really should turn off that fucking CNN and FOX news or just news in general spend a little time looking at whats in front of you, that may be a better indicator to how the country is, that if its hope that your looking for. Surprise, news is created for ratings.

Baron Samedi
02-09-2008, 11:39 AM
But Exxon/Mobil posted record profits!

fitbabits
02-09-2008, 12:32 PM
OK, so you dont know what your talking about. This is nothing. This country is constant drama its what we do. Its not the end of the world, the dollar will bounce back, the war be over and another republican is going to win.:D


Speaking man to man here you really should turn off that fucking CNN and FOX news or just news in general spend a little time looking at whats in front of you, that may be a better indicator to how the country is, that if its hope that your looking for. Surprise, news is created for ratings.

I get none of my news from CNN or FOX. Instead, I get it from here...

MJBuddy
02-09-2008, 01:36 PM
I get none of my news from CNN or FOX. Instead, I get it from here...

You are awarded no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

baggle
02-09-2008, 02:18 PM
You are awarded no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

Adam Sandler's last funny movie aka Billy Madison. What do I win? :D

MJBuddy
02-09-2008, 08:58 PM
Adam Sandler's last funny movie aka Billy Madison. What do I win? :D

A Recession!!!! :D:D:D:D










:(:(:(

Johan
02-14-2008, 08:24 AM
What recession? (http://money.cnn.com/2008/02/14/news/economy/bernanke_paulson/index.htm?cnn=yes)

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson both acknowledged problems in the U.S. economy on Thursday, but both said they believe the nation will avoid falling into recession.

In prepared testimony before the Senate Banking Committee, the head of the central bank and the Bush administration's point man on the economy said that steps taken already this year will be able to keep the economy moving forward despite the continued downturn in housing and troubles in credit markets.

http://www.norcalblogs.com/dog/alfred_e_neuman.jpg