DICE Sales Figures

[Borys]

Following the earlier story about Battlefield 2 breaking 1M units comes official DICE's interim report. Here's the most interesting part including LTD sales data of all DICE (http://www.dice.se) games.


PC titles:
- Battlefield 1942 (PC: 2,070,000 units)
- Battlefield Vietnam (PC: 1,220,000 units)
- Battlefield 2 (PC: 1,130,000 units)
- Battlefield Road To Rome (PC: 640,000 units)
- Battlefield Secret Weapons (PC: 480,000 units)
- Battlefield Deluxe (PC: 370,000 units)
- Battlefield Anthology (PC: 260,000 units)

Xbox titles:
- RalliSport Challenge (Xbox: 900,000 units)
- Midtown Madness 3 (Xbox: 570,000 units)
- RalliSport Challenge 2 (Xbox: 400,000 units)


You can find the whole report in PDF format here (http://www.dice.se/PDF.aspx?article=96745cab-0174-47c9-9ed3-eb4061fded2e).

This certainly puts into perspective the whole "console games sell better/ PC gaming is dead" debate.

[Evil Avatar]

This certainly puts into perspective the whole "console games sell better/ PC gaming is dead" debate.

How so? Pulling out one example of a best selling PC game and putting it up against a couple of mid-range console games doesn't suddenly make fact the idea that PC gaming is still the waving herald of gaming.

If you had done your research properly, you should be comparing the Battlefield figures to some other best selling console titles. Go pull the numbers for Halo, Halo 2 and Grand Theft Auto 3 and compare those to Battlefield 2 if you want to put things in perspective.

[Kefkataran]

Either way, I think that anyone saying that PC gaming is dead or on the verge of dying is just being daft. Less titles than consoles? Perhaps. But also less crap.

[bean19]

EA - Or Madden. . . the perrenial best-seller.

[Nesta]

In a world where PCs are becoming as commonplace as phones and microwaves, what this really says is when there is a well made and marketed PC game put out, people are going to pick it up, whether they own one or all three consoles. That doesn't mean the console market is bigger and better, it just means there will always be people willing to fork over dough on the PC.

[Borys]

These are games from one devhouse. Comparing them is pretty natural. This devhouse can ask itself "where do we make the most money?", the answer is - on the PC.

However, there are many ways to spin this data, Evil.

I choose the PC way because every site on the internet tries to shove down my throat the message that PC GAMES DON'T SELL. PERIOD. and every console title outsolds every PC title 10:1. That's not true and here's the data that proves it.

If I would play YOUR game I would compare Halo 2 sales to say, WoW? Sims? Even BF1942? Certainly not that bad.

Besides, give me some OTHER console title that sold a few millions (not a Halo or a GTA game).

And don't even think Pokemon ;p

[51|RandoM]

This certainly puts into perspective the whole "console games sell better/ PC gaming is dead" debate.

Uh, exactly what type of skewed perspective are you aiming for?

You're comparing the 2nd most popular online PC FPS series of all time to a racing variant on one console. Looking at it that way, the xbox looks like a sweet target for the developer.

Is pc gaming going to die? No. Is it going to continue to dwindle? Yes. When the big name players decide PC is no longer worth developing for, the independents will find it fertile ground for their efforts----since they won't have to compete vs. multi-million dollar budget titles.

[kathode]

PC game sales have unfortunately been slipping year after year since about 1999. Look at this data from last year:

Taking a closer look at the data reveals that console software sales reached $5.2 billion (up from $4.9 billion) on 160.7 million units, portable software sales expanded to a record $1.0 billion (up from $903 million) on 42.3 million units, and PC game sales were $1.1 billion (45 million units), which is down from the $1.2 billion total that PC games posted in 2003. Despite the long-awaited releases of high profile titles like id Software's Doom 3 or Valve Software's Half-Life 2, the PC market only accounted for 15% of overall console and PC software sales. And only two PC games managed to surpass 500,000 units sold. In 2003, total PC game sales represented about 17% of the market.

Reference (http://biz.gamedaily.com/features.asp?article_id=8854). Pretty sobering. But at least PCs are certainly still by FAR and away the most open of platforms, so you'll always see fantastic stuff like Fate pop up here and there.

[TheKeck]

I will never believe that PC gaming is dead. There are just too many people who love them. Look at how Apple has held on. Clearly Microsoft is triumphant, but there are tons of loyal Mac users who insist they are better.

(Hold on, did I just compare PC gaming to Mac computers? I feel all dirty inside.)

[Heretic Machine]

If PC gaming is dead, so is Nintendo.

[KNOTE]

I can't believe Rallisport 2 only sold 400k. MS needs to step up their marketing. They have one of the best driving franchises around and they're doing nothing with it.

[Adam Blue]

This certainly puts into perspective the whole "console games sell better/ PC gaming is dead" debate.[/i]

That's ridiculous. I know you know better than that.

[novicius]

If BF2 was on the Xbox before this October, perhaps they'd be twice as rich.

[Evil Avatar]

These are games from one devhouse. Comparing them is pretty natural. This devhouse can ask itself "where do we make the most money?", the answer is - on the PC.

That isn't going to be true for any other developer and you are comparing two different kinds of games... an online PC shooter vs. a single player console racing title.

If DICE had released the same title for three platforms and the PC version had sold twice as many copies as their console version, then you would have something to compare. As it is, you are just trying to add flame to the fire... trolling without backing up your conclusions.

Besides, give me some OTHER console title that sold a few millions (not a Halo or a GTA game).

Final Fantasy X
Pokemon Fire Red / Leaf Green
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Madden NFL 2005
Gran Turismo 4
Lego Star Wars
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Pokemon Stadium

I'm sure I could come up with more, those are just off the top of my head.

[goc_sin]

I wouldn't count on PC gaming going away.... actually you'll start seeing more support for gaming in Vista.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3142401

Also there is a article in this months PC gamer about three major publishers such as Namco and Midway jumping in to the PC market. I wouldn't be surprised to see others follow suit. All this crap about PC gaming dying is a load of bull that always appears around a console launch, aimed at putting fear in to PC gamers and trying to convert them to buy a console. Sales may not be what they once were, but the same will happen to consoles.. just you wait and see.

[Paranoia]

These are games from one devhouse. Comparing them is pretty natural. This devhouse can ask itself "where do we make the most money?", the answer is - on the PC.

That's not an accurate answer. Try to see if you can sell fighting games, action games on the PC, do you think Capcom or Konami can make the most money on the PC?


I choose the PC way because every site on the internet tries to shove down my throat the message that PC GAMES DON'T SELL. PERIOD.

I never read sites claiming PC GAMES DON'T SELL.

and every console title outsolds every PC title 10:1. That's not true and here's the data that proves it.

Did we see titles such as Battlefield 1942 for the console? Likewise Rallisport for the PC?

Besides, give me some OTHER console title that sold a few millions (not a Halo or a GTA game).

Street Fighter 2
Final Fantasy
Legend of Zelda
Super Mario Bros
Metal Gear Solid
Grand Turismo

[Acidpoptart]

I <3 BF42.
I KNEW IT! No one else bought those expansions either!

[Draft]

Hahaha, for Christ's sake Borys. No, PC gaming is not dead. No, it's not even close to dead. But to put Battlefield Anything up against some fucking no name Xbox racing games and say, "See, PC titles DO sell as much as console titles!" is crazy.

(and yes, I realize those games aren't exactly "no names", but they aren't Project Gotham, or Gran Turismo, or even Forza.)

[51|RandoM]

The first rallisport sold so well because there was almost nothing else to buy. Or maybe I should be saying that is why the numbers for second one were significantly smaller?

[Kefkataran]

If PC gaming is dead, so is Nintendo.

May I be the first to hand you your due respect for such a spiffy quote.

[danhoo]

For those curious, here are numbers from a recent Game Developer Magazine on life-to-date sales of top console games from 1995 to 2004 (source: NPD Group):

GTA:VC -- Over 6.3 million (Dunno if this includes both PS2 and XBox?)
Super Mario 64 -- Over 5.9 million (probably includes various GBA re-releases)
GTA III -- Over 5.4 million
Pokemon Yellow -- Over 5.1 million
GTA:SA -- Over 5.1 million
Pokemon Blue -- Over 5 million
Goldeneye -- Over 5 million
Pokemon Red -- Over 4.8 million
Mario Kart 64 -- Over 4.7 million
Halo 2 -- Over 4.2 million

Boy, those pokemon games sell. Anyway, my point was -- going down the list to number 40 (Donkey Kong 64), the number 40 console title still sold over 2.3 million copies. PC gaming is not dead, not by a long shot, however I'd guess that there aren't 40 PC titles that all sold over 2 million copies during that time frame (but who knows, maybe there are, and I'm smoking crack).

[Borys]

/raises white flag

Alright, alright I forgot about all those Gran Turismos and Final Fantasies.

I just hope PC gaming won't become the next Mac gaming that's all.

I got some serious ownage in this thread, however answer me this:
if you would be a publisher and you had to fund DICE's one next game, looking at that list what would it be?

danhoo:
well certainly not 40 but if we are talking about 1994-now (and over 2M not over 5M):

all Blizzard titles
Sims
Half-Life 1
Half-Life 2
some Tycoon games
at least one UT title
maybe Doom 3 (closing in to 2M)
BF1942 (duh)
B&W
Deer Hunter (the Pokemon of PC games)

probably some other titles that we don't know (C&C?)

[bean19]

Borys - You suck dude. Okay, I'll make your case for the PC for you. :)

Two Points:

1. MMOs can spell enormous profits and have (thus far) been much more popular than console MMORPGs.
2. Internet distribution can create direct profit for developers who bypass publishers and retailers in gaining the customer's dollar.

You didn't reference World of Warcraft in your defense. MMORPGs provide income from subscribers every month, and although there are continued costs in server upkeep, customer service, and continued development, the scalability is awesome and MMOs make serious money and are considered a "success" after only 50K subscribers. World of Warcraft is sporting 3 million subscribers currently so they are pulling in the cash hand over first. Let's look at the gross from initial box sales with an adjustment down to $40 instead of $50 because of the difference in price internationally (and to keep our numbers in the low estimate).

3 million x $40 = $120 million

Okay, now lets stay with the extremely low projection for monthly subscriptions and not use $14.99 month, but just $10/month (some international players pay less and some players sign up for longer subscriptions at discount rates).

3 million X $10/month = $30 million/month or $360 million/year

Okay, so they have to pay for a bagillion servers, customer support, and continued development. Let's just say they spend a ton of money each month (far more than likely at $3 million/month on operational costs). That leaves them with $7 million/month. . .

So an estimated profit of (3 million x $7/month X 12 months) + $120 million = $372 million dollars in profit in their first year of business. Heck, let's even say they spent an absurd amount on infastructure and initial development and knock that down $22 million to just $350 million profit.

Even by cruel estimates, WoW is an enormous money maker, and the end is not yet in sight. If they can up their development speed (Blizzard is notoriously meticulous and slow in development), then they'll start shipping expansion packs yearly as well as expanding the variety and scope of their endgame.

The most famous internet distribution game thus far has been Half-Life 2 on their gaming network "Steam". By selling directly to consumers, they can bypass paying the publisher and retailers their cut of the gamer's money. That means more profit. While some argue that developers also must pay heavy internet charges to distribute their product to the gamers who have purchased them, the costs for internet traffic are down and are certainly much lower than the cost of packaging and the publisher and retailer's respective cuts.

Half-Life 2 was able to break this ground by having a sequel to a legendary product and immense support of their Steam backbone through the popularity of the Counter-Strike mod, but other PC developers are getting smart to this service, especially indy developers. Valve is even looking at possibly earning their OWN publishing fees by extending the Steam service to other PC developers that wish to use Steam as their online game publisher.

Will consoles catch up and start online distribution. . . not likely. This is a heavily touted feature for the upcoming Nintendo Revolution, but they've only promised older games and it appears that the system could only handle older games as, thus far, no plans for a hardrive on the Revolution have surfaced. (Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not following the day-to-day Revolution leaks as it is still in my "too far away" category).

So, while I agree that Evil Avatar is correct that the console market enjoys MUCH greater sales than PC Games, there is a bright future for PC game developers who make high quality, grade AAA MMORPGs, and great money-making potential with online distribution.

[Draft]

bean, I think the reason Valve never said how many copies it sold through steam is because the number's not very high. I think that's pretty pathetic, actually. PC gamers, for all their talk of how much more advanced and in-depth their hobby is compared to console gamers, are scared of buying a game that doesn't come burned on a little piece of plastic.

[bean19]

bean, I think the reason Valve never said how many copies it sold through steam is because the number's not very high. I think that's pretty pathetic, actually. PC gamers, for all their talk of how much more advanced and in-depth their hobby is compared to console gamers, are scared of buying a game that doesn't come burned on a little piece of plastic.

By your own admission, you are also speculating low sales. I think it is more likely they have not published the exact number of online sales because their dispute with Vivendi (the retail publisher of Half-Life 2) has not yet settled.

Still, you make a good point. I think that people are going to want hard-copies of their games for a while. It is a new idea after all, but people who purchase a mod for Half-Life 2 or a new game through Steam because they own Half-Life 2 and thus get occassional Steam Updates (that are often ads) will see that their service works, and it has worked really well (for me - I've read some breif horror stories from people in the HL2: Aftermath video thread).

Plus, their business model is not "ignore store sells". It's "supplement store sells and build a customer base" with the Steam network. In 5 years, I am willing to bet that players will get on their PCs, load up their favorite gaming network (there will be Steam imitators), and SHOP for the PC games they are interested in. Heck, they may even pre-order and get cool features or sneak peaks.

Steam is going to change PC gaming, and it will change the generation of consoles after the X360, PS3, and Revolution too.

[Sanchez]

Super Mario 64 -- Over 5.9 million (probably includes various GBA re-releases)


The only re release is Mario 64DS, and that wouldn't be included in these stats because it was released late 2004.

Draft, if that's the reason, then why were the servers overloaded for weeks?

[Draft]

You know, you could buy games online before Steam. Fileplanet's been doing it for years. All Steam introduced was an often buggy "service" that hogged your CPU cycles as often as it could.

edit: because a million people bought the box copy and tried to update and register it at the same time.

[Borys]

bean19 - hey thanks man :) I couldn't write that long post in proper English - it's just impossible.

WoW is a serious cashcow and I referenced to it - "all Blizzard games". WoW is the only game that made more money than GTA3 + Halo 2 together.

Anyway thanks for your post - my thoughts exactly. If you deliver a proper, exclusive (not some shitty console port) and GOOD PC game people will line-up and buy it. There's still money to be made on PC gaming.

Lots of it.

[Kefkataran]

I just hope PC gaming won't become the next Mac gaming that's all.

I don't think we need to worry too much.

PC gamers, for all their talk of how much more advanced and in-depth their hobby is compared to console gamers, are scared of buying a game that doesn't come burned on a little piece of plastic.

That's the case now, but I do seriously think it's going to be changing. The more developers discover how much easier and more profitable it can be to develop a game without the need for a publisher, the more they're going to try and push games through download rather than retail. And I honestly believe PC gamers will warm up to the idea given time and, possibly, a more friendly system (or a more nicely tweaked version of) Steam.

[Evil Avatar]

I just hope PC gaming won't become the next Mac gaming that's all.

I don't think that will happen, but it seems like PC gaming is really getting into a rut of just online shooters, MMORPG's and MOTS RTS titles.

I got some serious ownage in this thread, however answer me this:

if you would be a publisher and you had to fund DICE's one next game, looking at that list what would it be?

The Xbox 360 or Playstation 3 version of Battlefield 2, of course. With Battlefield's popularity, the natural course of action would be to make console versions so that you are selling 6 Million copies instead of 1 Million copies. :)

With like 2 Million Live subscribers, you know there is going to be a market for it.

Off Topic, has anyone played Black Hawk Down for the Xbox? It looks great on the commercials.

[Evil Avatar]

bean, I think the reason Valve never said how many copies it sold through steam is because the number's not very high. I think that's pretty pathetic, actually. PC gamers, for all their talk of how much more advanced and in-depth their hobby is compared to console gamers, are scared of buying a game that doesn't come burned on a little piece of plastic.

I've had too many hard drives go bad and seen too many companies go out of business (I've been doing this since 1998, BTW.) to trust online purchasing.

[Deadend]

To completely change the subject...

BF2 sold a million copies with all sorts of people bitching about the minimum requirements to run the game. Does that mean DICE/EA made a well calculated move in not having lower shader settings and potentially losing marketshare?

[Dirty Harry]

You know, you could buy games online before Steam. Fileplanet's been doing it for years. All Steam introduced was an often buggy "service" that hogged your CPU cycles as often as it could.

edit: because a million people bought the box copy and tried to update and register it at the same time.
I run a rather crap pc and i notice no real difference when i leave steam on in the background. Ive also noticed it only downloads updates when my pc has been idle for awhile, internet traffic wise aswell. So to say that your bad experience is what everyone is experiencing is a wrong statement.

[Kefkataran]

but it seems like PC gaming is really getting into a rut of just online shooters, MMORPG's and MOTS RTS titles.

Meh, not any more of a rut than gaming in general, if you ask me. I don't see consoles having any more creativity or ingenuity than PC gaming.

the natural course of action would be to make console versions so that you are selling 6 Million copies instead of 1 Million copies.

I thought they had console versions of Battlefield out already? But I'm probably wrong. I don't keep updated on that series much.

So if there are only 2 million Live subscribers, why would 6 million people buy a game made chiefly for online play? Hrm.

[Frogleg Special]

Unreal Tournament 2004 > Unreal Championship 2 sales, periods taken care off. Just ask Epic/Digital Extremes. Yeah blame Halo 2 for that.

[H.Bogard]

oh boy i gotta lot of people to quote here :p





Final Fantasy X
Pokemon Fire Red / Leaf Green
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Madden NFL 2005
Gran Turismo 4
Lego Star Wars
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2
Pokemon Stadium

I'm sure I could come up with more, those are just off the top of my head.


did you even READ his post?


bean, I think the reason Valve never said how many copies it sold through steam is because the number's not very high.

You are wrong, the real reason is the valve-vivendi dispute.
plus i heard there were a LOT of preloaders, obviously steam purchases!

Meh, not any more of a rut than gaming in general, if you ask me. I don't see consoles having any more creativity or ingenuity than PC gaming.


As a matter of fact its been seemingly otherwise lately, hasnt it?


So if there are only 2 million Live subscribers, why would 6 million people buy a game made chiefly for online play? Hrm.

LOL ....PWN4G3! :)

[Kefkataran]

As a matter of fact its been seemingly otherwise lately, hasnt it?

Eh. I think it's about as normal as ever as far as the balance of interesting, creative, new games to boring, same-old games on all platforms.

[Wonka]

Unreal Tournament 2004 > Unreal Championship 2 sales, periods taken care off. Just ask Epic/Digital Extremes. Yeah blame Halo 2 for that.

Actually I would blame Epic for that. They made this fantastic action packed game, and then they hamstrung it to only allow 8 players at a time. That was not smart.

[Wonka]

I've had too many hard drives go bad and seen too many companies go out of business (I've been doing this since 1998, BTW.) to trust online purchasing.

I agree with this. I am interested to see what (if anything) MS will do about this problem on the X360.

If I buy a hundred bucks worth of content to the X360 HDD, and it croaks, will they let me have all that content again? Or will I be screwed into buying it yet again? It had better NOT be the latter, or I will not be buying much online content...

[Babbster]

bean, I think the reason Valve never said how many copies it sold through steam is because the number's not very high. I think that's pretty pathetic, actually. PC gamers, for all their talk of how much more advanced and in-depth their hobby is compared to console gamers, are scared of buying a game that doesn't come burned on a little piece of plastic.

As a formerly addicted, currently occasional, PC gamer, I haven't bought HL2 in either disc or online form for the simple fact that I won't support that Steam garbage - this despite loving the first game. I won't support any company that jams an online service down my throat for a single-player game. Buying online isn't a bad thing for PC gaming, but Steam sure as hell is.

[Shifteh]

This certainly puts into perspective the whole "console games sell better/ PC gaming is dead" debate.

RalliSport vs. Battlefield 2 does not prove this theory, sorry man.

[Paranoia]

I don't think STEAM is the future. Last night when I fired up Counter Strike, I can't even join some damn servers because "PROBLEM CONNECTING TO VAC SERVER". It wasn't until 4AM then I was able to get join the server. I'm glad there are alternative online delivery content (such as Fileplant's Direct 2 Drive) that don't rely on STEAM like application.

[bean19]

I don't think STEAM is the future. Last night when I fired up Counter Strike, I can't even join some damn servers because "PROBLEM CONNECTING TO VAC SERVER". It wasn't until 4AM then I was able to get join the server. I'm glad there are alternative online delivery content (such as Fileplant's Direct 2 Drive) that don't rely on STEAM like application.

Are you a cheater?

VAC servers are for people who have never used a hack in Counter-Strike. Rumor is they scanned for cheats a month in advance of using VAC secured servers so you could have cheated BEFORE the service and still gotten a global ban from all cheat-protected servers.

Of course, if you are a cheater, you shouldn't have ever connected. . . regardless of when you attempted connection.

[Kefkataran]

Buying online isn't a bad thing for PC gaming, but Steam sure as hell is.

Okay, now why? I can understand a few reasons why people wouldn't like Steam and I've had problems with it, but some of you people are ridiculously vehement about your hatred towards it. Killed your families?

[51|RandoM]

Steam works great for me, and I like it. No more CD/DVD issues. No more no-cd cracks needed, automagic anti-cheat updates.

At this point, it just works. :-)

[Kefkataran]

That's one of the things i find undeniably good about Steam -- no more CD/DVD issues. Once it knows you have a game, you have it for good and can d/l it from any computer you log onto Steam from.

[drakkarim]

battlefield 1942 & expansions & forgottenhope mod has the dubious distinction as being the one game that i've spent the most time ever playing/enjoying on my computer thoughout my 18+ years of gaming. and i typically hate FPS's.

[Ozymandias]

I agree with this. I am interested to see what (if anything) MS will do about this problem on the X360.

If I buy a hundred bucks worth of content to the X360 HDD, and it croaks, will they let me have all that content again? Or will I be screwed into buying it yet again? It had better NOT be the latter, or I will not be buying much online content...

Today the content is tracked to the Xbox - so if you delete the content, you can download it again without a charge. I can't imagine they'd step backward from this in next-gen.

Secondly, I'm mystified why some people point to Steam and ESD (Electronic Software Distribution) as being PC-only, and a proof that the PC will never go away in the face of consoles?

I don't personally believe PC gaming is dead... at least online. Yes, it'll continue to decline at retail, and then spike again during console transitions as it always has as publishers hedge their bets. But the online MMO market will support PC gaming for at least a few years.

What I'm really curious about is what happens 3-4 years from now when the next generation of consoles is available - all with the ability to download content, with hard drives to store it, and things like Microsoft's marketplace/downloader to make it very easy (for both the developer and the gamer). (Yes, the latter is 360 only, but I'm sure Sony will have some equivilant to be competitive).

At that point, is there really any difference between PC/Consoles WRT the capability to support ESD, or MMOs, or episodic content? And if not, isn't it possible publishers will migrate what are now PC-strongholds for gaming (RTS, MMOs) to consoles to take advantage of the huge install base, ease of use, and the fact that their lead development platform (for most pubs) have become consoles?

Sobering thought - we used to think that online gaming (in general) and FPSes were PC strongholds. Those are gone to consoles now. What we're left with on the PC are RTS titles and MMOs. I can easily imagine MMOs moving over - it's already happening with Final Fantasy. RTS remains the only category I can't imagine yet - and I suspect all it takes is some world-class RTS developer really applying their talents to the console space to make it work.

[Chenzo]

Consoles Games are to PC Games as T-Ball is to Pro Baseball. (Flame bait)

I don't know how people can play FPSs on consoles with a freaking controller - you just can't beat a mouse/keyboard combo.

Battlefield2 > Battlefield:Modern Combat

[bean19]

Sobering thought - we used to think that online gaming (in general) and FPSes were PC strongholds. Those are gone to consoles now. What we're left with on the PC are RTS titles and MMOs. I can easily imagine MMOs moving over - it's already happening with Final Fantasy. RTS remains the only category I can't imagine yet - and I suspect all it takes is some world-class RTS developer really applying their talents to the console space to make it work.

Uhm. . . not so much. While the FPS has certainly seen a good transistion with a few stellar titles, can you name any truly successful console FPS games that don't rhyme with halo or rainbow?

Timesplitters and Unreal Championship are both decent games, but Timesplitters would not have sold on the PC because it isn't that good of a game, and Unreal Championship's PC counter-part UT2K4 outsold it by a crap-ton.

At any given time of the day, there are more people playing Counter-Strike than there are people playing every online game available on consoles.

Consoles getting their hands in the pie doesn't mean they are winning. . . at least not yet. Hopefully, the new consoles will allow for better FPS and we will see more and more awesome online compatible games and a game matching system that isn't a chore to use. Halo 2 = Finding opponents for 3 minutes every damn map if you don't set up a party.

[Ozymandias]

My point was more that there was a time when an FPS on a console wasn't seen as realistic. "You need a keyboard/mouse to do an FPS" - that sort of thing. Then Perfect Dark came along and showed it could happen.

Looking at the Top Xbox Live games worldwide (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/live-top25games.htm?level1=enuslivehome&level2=topgames&level3=top25gameslist) six of the top ten titles are FPS shooters. Counterstrike for Xbox is number 8 - and you know how bad a port it was for Xbox.

As to Halo 2's matchmaking system - some love it, some hate it. I could go either way, but it certainly hasn't hurt the popularity of the title.

Point is, I think we'd collectively struggle to find a PC FPS title that *hasn't* made it to the console - or isn't in the works (Half Life 2), and that hasn't done reasonably well. The genre has become viable on console.

I'm in agreement about RTS titles, though - that hasn't migrated yet. But I still bet the majority of "big" MMOs will be cross-platform (PC<->Console) within a few years.

Uhm. . . not so much. While the FPS has certainly seen a good transistion with a few stellar titles, can you name any truly successful console FPS games that don't rhyme with halo or rainbow?

Timesplitters and Unreal Championship are both decent games, but Timesplitters would not have sold on the PC because it isn't that good of a game, and Unreal Championship's PC counter-part UT2K4 outsold it by a crap-ton.

At any given time of the day, there are more people playing Counter-Strike than there are people playing every online game available on consoles.

Consoles getting their hands in the pie doesn't mean they are winning. . . at least not yet. Hopefully, the new consoles will allow for better FPS and we will see more and more awesome online compatible games and a game matching system that isn't a chore to use. Halo 2 = Finding opponents for 3 minutes every damn map if you don't set up a party.

[Kefkataran]

Then Perfect Dark came along and showed it could happen.

I'd say Goldeneye, not Perfect Dark. But either way, I think the vast majority of hardcore FPS gamers still prefer PC FPSes to console 90% of the time.

[mister_slim]

I imagine the Steam numbers must be fairly good if Ritual and other developers are planning to use it.

[Frogleg Special]

Sobering thought - we used to think that online gaming (in general) and FPSes were PC strongholds. Those are gone to consoles now.

How so? There are still more exclusive FPSes in the PC like Fear, Bioshock and STALKER than in consoles. Most exclusive FPSes in the consoles are sponsored heavily by the console manufacturers (Halo, Gears of War, Killzone, Metroid). While in PC, developers are willingly creating FPSes just because FPS is better played with k/m even under the threat of lower sales.


RTS remains the only category I can't imagine yet - and I suspect all it takes is some world-class RTS developer really applying their talents to the console space to make it work.


World class RTS developer only create RTS in PC until consoles have their own multibutton controllers (and voice command is just silly). And that includes Microsoft.

[Ozymandias]

Do you really believe those "exclusive" FPSes aren't coming to the next gen of consoles? Not trying to be combative - this has been an interesting thread. I just wish we could just jump ahead a year and see what happens. My $.02 would be that every one of those PC FPS titles *that does well* (ie, isn't crap) is either announced or available on at least one next-gen console.


How so? There are still more exclusive FPSes in the PC like Fear, Bioshock and STALKER than in consoles. Most exclusive FPSes in the consoles are sponsored heavily by the console manufacturers (Halo, Gears of War, Killzone, Metroid). While in PC, developers are willingly creating FPSes just because FPS is better played with k/m even under the threat of lower sales.



World class RTS developer only create RTS in PC until consoles have their own multibutton controllers (and voice command is just silly). And that includes Microsoft.