Gran Turismo 5 Prologue Dated and Priced

[Dr.Finger]

Sony today announced a date and a price (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/01/29/gran-turismo-5-prologue-priced-and-dated/) for the Gran Turismo 5 Prologue. It will be available on Blu-Ray disc and as a PSN download for $39.99 on April 17 in North America.

The game will include 50 cars and 5 tracks from Gran Turismo 5 and offer 16 person multiplayer.

[Dr.Finger]

I'm sorry, but charging forty bucks for what is essentially a beefed up demo is lame.

[Mdot23]

5 tracks isn't enough for $40, imo.

[Karmakin]

That's...crazy.

[Gorvi]

This makes me glad that I couldn't possibly care less about Gran Turismo.

[Sir Kodiak]

At that price, I hope there's going to be a demo for the prologue so people can decide if it's worth getting. :rolleyes:

I know there might actually be one, but it makes it really hard for me to understand the point of the prologue.

[Gorvi]

At that price, I hope there's going to be a demo for the prologue so people can decide if it's worth getting. :rolleyes:
Funny, there actually is.

[Kweli]

So 39.99 for the prologue, and what? 59.99 for the game?

These guys think they are king-shit

[ReaverX]

At max, I think I'd have priced it at $20. That's pretty much the magic price for something like this. I think the sales of Warhawk and the popularity of GT has them getting a bit too big for their britches.

Personally, I'll settle for the Prologue demo and wait till the actual game comes out. $40 for a demo is insanity.

[pheriannath]

This should have been released last year, and certainly not for $40.

[BrainDrain]

Wasn't this originally announced as a free download or did I imagine that?

[Telefrog]

The sad part is that this will sell, and it will do very well.

[Digital Outlaw]

$40 for a Demo? Now thats crazy. Releasing a demo for a demo? Now thats insane.

[Kweli]

The sad part is that this will sell, and it will do very well.
It will sell to everyone who DOESNT know its a "demo"

alot of people will think its the full game

[Vandenh]

They need to get some money back to continue developing.

[VYPUR]

HAHAHA The PS3 Rules!....NOT!!!

[51|RandoM]

It is is just for fans who can't wait. The rest of you can ridicule and move on while they use the profit to make GT5 even that much better.

[agentgray]

I want to see Picard with his hands in his face. Do it.

[Spigot]

I always thought that this was the actual game with an odd name.

Yeesh. It's an expanded demo... For $40... What scares me is if it does well and other games/devs start charging for their demos. *shudder*

The only way I could see this as being a worthwhile investment would be if having paid the $40 for the demo would count against the cost of the full version.

[UnderHero5]

HAHAHA The PS3 Rules!....NOT!!!

Damn, you're clever!

As for the pricing... I'll state the obvious. If it's too much, don't buy it.
Fans will buy it, if they think it's worth it. If not, they won't.

Team Fortress 2 sells for $30, and it only has 9 characters and five maps.
Warhawk sells for $40 and it only has 5 maps.

The pricing doesn't seem horribly out of line, to me. The problem is, people are thinking of it as a demo, when it's not. It has the content of some full games. 50 cars? Many full racing games don't have that many cars.

I'm not saying I would buy it (or even the full game, since I don't care much for the GT series), but it's not as big of a rip off as some of you are making it out to be, when you compare it to many other full games.

[NightRain]

I hate this, this is a dumb idea and it will sell hundreds of thousands of copies. $40 demo is crazy.

This bothers me, crap games like this will sell, sell, sell. They classics and awesome games like Pshyconauts, Beyond Good & Evil, Zack & Wiki, etc don't sell hardly at all. I hate sheep.

No way I'll buy this, I still haven't done everything in GT4 and that only goes for $20 now.

[NightRain]

Wasn't this originally announced as a free download or did I imagine that?

Yes, originally they were gonna release this for free then charge for tracks and cars. It would have worked out to about $100-120 estimated to buy the entire game. Or you could buy the whole game at retail for MSRP $60. They apparently ditched that idea and went with this dumb one instead.

[Dr.Finger]

Question for the audience: When do you think the real, full Gran Turismo 5 will come out here in the states?

[Rune_74]

It is is just for fans who can't wait. The rest of you can ridicule and move on while they use the profit to make GT5 even that much better.

Hahahahaah we spin you round round baby round round....

Noone in their right mind would think this....I would love to see your sony shrine:)

[Wraith]

Question for the audience: When do you think the real, full Gran Turismo 5 will come out here in the states?As soon as they meet their sales goal for Prologue.

[Dukefrukem]

I'm sorry, but charging forty bucks for what is essentially a beefed up demo is lame.

if it looks as good as the video does, in 1080p... im not gonna complain.

[NightRain]

Question for the audience: When do you think the real, full Gran Turismo 5 will come out here in the states?


Q3 or Q4 of 2009 would be my guess.

[VYPUR]

Yeesh. It's an expanded demo... For $40... What scares me is if it does well and other games/devs start charging for their demos.

Yea that will suck cause you know idiots would pay for a demo of maybe like GTA.

[mkelehan]

5 tracks isn't enough for $40, imo.

Some of us paid $50 for one track. The game was called Ridge Racer. The next game, Ridge Racer Revolution, was an amazing deal: THREE tracks for $50!

[asimonk]

It is is just for fans who can't wait. The rest of you can ridicule and move on while they use the profit to make GT5 even that much better.

40 bucks for a demo is ok when its for the hardcore fans.

40 bucks for a year of XBL which allows all demos to be gotten immediately and play of all games is not ok.

[NightRain]

40 bucks for a demo is ok when its for the hardcore fans.

40 bucks for a year of XBL which allows all demos to be gotten immediately and play of all games is not ok.

I hope I sense sarcasm here.

[Jack B]

They've done Prologue's in the past. I don't know what the pricing was, but they've done it. There aren't too many franchises, that could pull off a $40 game of a demo HD Concept or demo of a game, GT 5 and get away with it.

I'm having fun with HD Concept for now, but a one track time trial demo without multiplayer or AI cars won't hold me for long.

I'm torn on this one. I definitely want it, but I'll wait for reviews to see how full featured it is. I noticed the leaderboard on HD Concept had only the top 10 in the world without showing friends for instance. If Prologue has similar skimping on the feature set, I'd probably end up waiting for GT 5.

Reviews for the US version should be out shortly.

[asimonk]

I hope I sense sarcasm here.

Very much so, mostly as that is RandoM's big flag that he waves.

This whole pay-for-demo strikes me as game development on Layaway.

[Jack B]

This whole pay-for-demo strikes me as game development on Layaway.

Except with layaway the money you spend is credited to your purchase. Is that the way it works with Prologue?

[Rune_74]

So random...if halo prologue released with a few maps and enemies for 40 dollars....would you be ok with that?

[Ix Quantum xI]

So random...if halo prologue released with a few maps and enemies for 40 dollars....would you be ok with that?

Many people just bought Crackdown for the Halo 3 Beta and that was $60.

[Rune_74]

Many people just bought Crackdown for the Halo 3 Beta and that was $60.

Hehehe but at least they gota great game with it....which was a full game.

[Gorvi]

Many people just bought Crackdown for the Halo 3 Beta and that was $60.
Just be thankful they packed that in with a good game. ;)

[Virtuoso]

I love how probably 75% of the people bitching in this thread don't even own a PS3.

Also. remember a game called crackdown that you all payed 60 bucks for so you could play in the Halo beta?

Yeah, shut the fuck up.

[roboninja]

I love how probably 75% of the people bitching in this thread don't even own a PS3.

Also. remember a game called crackdown that you all payed 60 bucks for so you could play in the Halo beta?

Yeah, shut the fuck up.

Well, you were all told. STFU! :rolleyes:

[Telefrog]

Also. remember a game called crackdown that you all payed 60 bucks for so you could play in the Halo beta?

Yeah, shut the fuck up.

Again, Crackdown was a damn good game on it's own.

[Rune_74]

I love how probably 75% of the people bitching in this thread don't even own a PS3.

Also. remember a game called crackdown that you all payed 60 bucks for so you could play in the Halo beta?

Yeah, shut the fuck up.

Reading skill below average? We have already discussed this.....see the difference is crackdown was a good game on its own...it just happened to come with a demo of halo 3 so what?

In this case you are buying a demo of a game...and thats it. Do I need to spell out the difference for you?

Oh and just becauyse you have learned swear words does not make you smart.

[DigitalFirefly]

I thought I remember hearing that Prologue won't have any vehicle tuning. Is this true?

[VYPUR]

Also. remember a game called crackdown that you all payed 60 bucks for so you could play in the Halo beta?

Yeah, shut the fuck up.

Ahhh somebody shit in your cheerios? I bought crackdown for crackdown.:D

[Wraith]

Except with layaway the money you spend is credited to your purchase. Is that the way it works with Prologue?Y'know, why couldn't they have done it that way? Put down $40 towards GT5, get free download / disc for Prologue. That would make a lot more sense in my mind, rather than paying $40 for Prologue now and $60 for the full version whenever.

[silv]

Who could possibly object to paying $100 for a game?

[Virtuoso]

Again, Crackdown was a damn good game on it's own.

Don't get me wrong, crackdown is a phenomenal game on its own; but there were quite a few people that bought it and never played crackdown, only messed with the Halo 3 beta.

[Rune_74]

you honestly don't see the difference in the two situations here?

[Durka-Dan]

I thought I remember hearing that Prologue won't have any vehicle tuning. Is this true?

woah woah.. Somebody answer the man. Is that true?

[NightRain]

Again, Crackdown was a damn good game on it's own.

Agreed, I played Crackdown WAY more than the Halo 3 beta. I think Crackdown is one of the best (if not the best) sandbox game ever.

[Chainblast]

I can understand Sony wanting to charge slightly more for network games since PSN is free and all. Despite what some might say about it not being as robust and all inclusive as Live it stills costs money to operate. That said $40 is a ripoff, and here's why:

Unlike Warhawk which is similar in size and price, GT5:P (and I'm making assumptions here which could very well be wrong) is a fraction of what GT5 will be whenever it is released. I'm also assuming that all features, courses and cars in GT5:P will be available in GT5. To me the only reason GT5:P warrants a purchase is for those who cannot wait and want a taste of what GT5 will offer. The $40 price tag for that taste is in no way worth $40. Maybe $20 at the most.

In all honesty though GT5:P should have been a pre-order incentive. You pre-order GT5 and either get a disc or an access code to punch in on PSN. $40 is fucking ridiculous, period.

[51|RandoM]

Hahahahaah we spin you round round baby round round....

Noone in their right mind would think this....I would love to see your sony shrine:)

Oh really? So the people in Japan in Europe who bought this prologue and who bought previous prologues are all imaginary?

I have a new sig for you: "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

[Wyrm]

Don't get me wrong, crackdown is a phenomenal game on its own; but there were quite a few people that bought it and never played crackdown, only messed with the Halo 3 beta.

What the hell is your point?

This is a game demo they're charging money for. That was a beta that came WITH A FULL FUCKING GAME. Can you please stop being so stupid?

[Jack B]

Q3 or Q4 of 2009 would be my guess.

Good grief. Are you sure? I figured 2008 for sure. That's getting way to close to a likely Forza 3 ship date.

I just checked and the original Forza Motorsport came out

Forza Motorsport - May 3, 2005
Forza 2 - May 30, 2007
Forza 3 - May??? 2009

Umm, I haven't heard, but I'd say there is a reasonable chance for Forza 3 to be out by May of 2009. Could it be possible it ships before GT 5???

If so, I'd imagine we'll start to see a bunch of information, videos, feature set stuff on Forza 3 within 6-9 months of launch. That would be this fall. GT 5 better hurry up or the bar, that Forza raised may get raised again.

[huntr]

ill be buying this, things cost money to make, and im more than willing to pay for a good product. Theres too many cheap gamers out there, everyone wants everything for free.... but thats for another discussion.

im just sad its not coming out march 18 like all the preorder dates had stated before

[Flatpicker]

Not a racing game fan, but, anything for the system is cool.

[51|RandoM]

GT 5 better hurry up or the bar, that Forza raised may get raised again.

Until you can play Forza on a ps3 GT 5 has nothing to worry about.

[Wyrm]

Until you can play Forza on a ps3 GT 5 has nothing to worry about.

You know, except for coming out like 5 years late.

[51|RandoM]

You know, except for coming out like 5 years late.

As long as the ps3 is still in use it doesn't matter when GT5 comes out, it will sell a lot of copies.

[Spigot]

Thank you, Wyrm. You've spewed all of the bile that I was about to unleash upon Virtuoso. It's not the fault of RealTimeWorlds or Microsoft if people were stupid enough to not even bother touching the fun and pure awesome of Crackdown because they only wanted to play Halo 3's beta. If they'd put the GT5 Prologue on Lair's Blu-Ray disc or something, then we'd be approaching a reasonable comparison between the Halo 3 beta and this.

Huntr, you're insane. We're talking about the Gran Turismo series, not some upstart production of a niche game. This is called a fleecing of the consumer because they KNOW they'll get people lining up in droves to get a chance to play Gran Turismo in HD early.

A demo is a demo and this, my friends, is a demo. Demos should not cost you money to play them as that cost is usually worked into the development and marketing cost of a game. Hell, they don't even need a demo for this because you know the game will sell a zillion copies (and they already have the HD Concept thingy out there).

Had this been a pre-order bonus or something that would count the cost of the Prologue against the final cost, the hue and cry from people who think it's a stupid idea would be non-existent. As it stands, it just smacks of greed and of consumers who don't seem to realize that they're both getting taken to the cleaners AND possibly setting up the scenario that this will become the norm rather than the exception.

At best, make it cost $15, tops, if you are going to go the route they've gone. It may be happening in a very shiny car, but $40 is still highway robbery.

[51|RandoM]

If you decide to pay the money it isn't robbery, though, is it? :)

[Jack B]

Until you can play Forza on a ps3 GT 5 has nothing to worry about.

I understand your point, but I'm in a growing category of people who own both a 360 and a PS3, so we do have a choice. I'll buy both, because I love racing sims, but some will pick one or the other.

It's people who will only buy one racing sime that Polyphony Digital needs to worry about. Especially, if both games come out at the same time. I played and loved the Shadowrun beta, but when Forza 2 came out 1 week earlier I never ended up purchasing Shadowrun at all, because it was Forza 2 all the time for 3 months. Timing can be important.

[Spigot]

If you decide to pay the money it isn't robbery, though, is it? :)No... it's just stupid :)

[51|RandoM]

It's people who will only buy one racing sime that Polyphony Digital needs to worry about.

I quite honestly do not believe these people exist(at least not in significant numbers). People who buy games for both platforms and like driving games will buy Forza and GT 5.

If those people were common then there would be no market for any other racing games, yet clearly there is a market otherwise PGR and DiRT would not exist..

If you want to argue that people deciding between buying one console and the other who want a sim-style driving game will pick the 360 over the PS3 because they can play Forza 2 today, I'll be happy to agree. :)

[Spigot]

I've come to the realization that I like racing games, but not DRIVING games, so I'll play DiRT and Burnout... I was done with Gran Turismo after sinking some time into GT3 and while I bought both Forza and Forza 2, I just got bored to tears after the first day or two of trying to keep my shopping cart on the track.

Give me some crazy crashes and mud on my car and I'm happy.

Which is why I wouldn't even be in this thread if I wasn't so annoyed by the $40 demo!

[51|RandoM]

Oh, and the people who want a demo and don't want to pay for it can download the GT 5 Prologue demo.

Everybody can be happy that way, unless they are hellbent on bitching.

People who want a free demo? They get one. Be happy.
People who want a much larger slice of GT5 early? They get one. Be happy.

Just another case where people are trying to somehow convince me that choice is bad... and another case where they are failing miserably.

[oldjadedgamer]

Oh, and the people who want a demo and don't want to pay for it can download the GT 5 Prologue demo.

Wait... so there is a demo of a demo?

[Rune_74]

Oh really? So the people in Japan in Europe who bought this prologue and who bought previous prologues are all imaginary?

I have a new sig for you: "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."


No they are just stupid....why pay for a demo, you would have been all over this if it happened on the 360, blinders for the win.

Its always nice when you have nothing to add you throw an insult out to somehow justify your thinking.

[51|RandoM]

Wait... so there is a demo of a demo?

No, there is a demo of the prologue. Semantics FTW, rofl. :D

[51|RandoM]

No they are just stupid....why pay for a demo, you would have been all over this if it happened on the 360, blinders for the win.

Its always nice when you have nothing to add you throw an insult out to somehow justify your thinking.

I don't have to justify my thinking. The current and past prologue sales do that for me. People buy the prologues, and are buying this prologue.

...and none of that stops people from downloading and playing the free demos.

Seems like everybody wins except the people who like to bitch&moan.

For the people reading this who are interested in GT 5 as a game and not as a forum windmill, you should download GT HD Concept now if you want it. When the Prologue demo was released in Japan and Europe they yanked GT HD Concept. The Prologue demo is much better than Concept, but some people might want it just to have it. If you do, grab it before Prologue is released.

[Jack B]

I quite honestly do not believe these people exist(at least not in significant numbers). People who buy games for both platforms and like driving games will buy Forza and GT 5.

If those people were common then there would be no market for any other racing games, yet clearly there is a market otherwise PGR and DiRT would not exist..

If you want to argue that people deciding between buying one console and the other who want a sim-style driving game will pick the 360 over the PS3 because they can play Forza 2 today, I'll be happy to agree. :)

You may be right, I really don't know. I don't buy all the FPS's on the market or sports games, but there really are only two big racing sim type games on the PS3/360, so maybe the majority will buy both regardless of quality. Not sure.

I do believe that's a less likely case if they release at the same time. Some people just won't have time for both games or in the case of Spigot may buy only one, because they realize it's not their style of game. If they launch at the same time it will be a dogfight. I think Polyphony Digital should get cranking and release GT 5 this Xmas at the latest.

[huntr]

i dont remember too many demos having online play and a ton of features.

please someone prove me wrong (was Cod4 demo online?)

[Jack B]

i dont remember too many demos having online play and a ton of features.

please someone prove me wrong (was Cod4 demo online?)

Yeah, COD 4 had a beta/demo and I played the hell out of it. I've played quite a few demos online. The Moto GP series has kept me busy for long periods of time with online demo play. Halo 3 had an online beta/demo as well. There have been quite a few on the 360.

I'm guessing you don't have a 360. Xbox Live is all about demos and online. Lot's of them.

In fact, I was checking out the PSN Store and did some comparisions of content. The 360 had 343 demos compared to the PS3's 69. Microsoft pushes demos, add-on content and online with it's publishers. It appears Sony does not.

360
Demos
111 Arcade
65 Action
17 Adventure
9 Family
9 Fighting
2 Music
2 Other
5 Platform
Puzzle
23 Racing
7 Role Playing
35 Shooter
10 Simulation
41 Sports
7 Strategy
343 Total

PS3
Demos
24 Action
6 Adventure
0 Family
0 Fighting
0 Music
0 Other
0 Platform
5 Puzzle
14 Racing
2 Role Playing
6 Shooter
0 Simulation
18 Sports
0 Strategy

75 Total

[grognard66]

$40 for a beta - no thanks. Basically, Polyphony and Sony are asking consumers to subsidize their continually delayed development of this title. This is the true cost of the "free" PSN service - overpriced downloadable games (i.e. PAIN would have been a demo on Live, not a $10 game for so little content) and charging for the "privilege" of Beta testing.

I hope consumers shun this release as it will only encourage Sony and other other publishers to follow this lead in the future. Developers like Bungie and Infinity Ward understand the value of offering free betas to interested consumers and were rewarded handsomely at retail when the real games were released. This is marketing run amok.

[oldjadedgamer]

i dont remember too many demos having online play and a ton of features.

please someone prove me wrong (was Cod4 demo online?)

There was no COD4, there was a public beta which was free and had online play. Lots of demos have online play including Burnout, Crackdown, Lost Planet and many more that I'm too lazy to think of.

I don't remember any demo being $40 bucks though.

[51|RandoM]

I do believe that's a less likely case if they release at the same time. Some people just won't have time for both games or in the case of Spigot may buy only one, because they realize it's not their style of game. If they launch at the same time it will be a dogfight. I think Polyphony Digital should get cranking and release GT 5 this Xmas at the latest.

...and when they get tired of the one they bought first they will buy the other one, seems like to me. You can put a lot of time into a forza or a gt but eventually you are going to want something new, and that "eventually" usually occurs long before the next installment in the series comes along.

I expect both of the games to be on the shelf for a long time, don't you? Somebody buys one of them then is back in the store 2-3 months later buying the other, if not sooner.

I could see what you are saying happening in a different world, one where there was significant free DLC every moth, DLC that would keep the owners of one title engaged enough that they don't eventually go looking for another game.

Forza 2 doesn't have that. GT 5 is looking a hair better in that department but it is all marketing at this point, not something you can really bank on.

[51|RandoM]

I don't remember any demo being $40 bucks though.

Halo3 is forgettable, but is it really that forgettable?

I still don't understand your issue. There is a free demo. Why not play that one and let the people who want to pay more to get more do so?

Repeat after me: There is a free demo.

Just keep saying that until it sinks in, people.

I already have two free GT 5 demos on my ps3, how many do they have to make before you guys are happy?

[huntr]

how extensive do those other demos get?

Ive only recently gotten a PS3 in the last month, and have enjoyed a few of the free demos as well as PSN games. Isnt 40 cars , 5 tracks (10 with reverse) several online racing modes and leader boards a pretty substantial chunk of game?

and i agree with 51|random, its your choice to get this larger "demo". they had a prologue for GT4 didnt they, and some paid for it while most waited for the real thing

[Jack B]

...and when they get tired of the one they bought first they will buy the other one, seems like to me. You can put a lot of time into a forza or a gt but eventually you are going to want something new, and that "eventually" usually occurs long before the next installment in the series comes along.

I expect both of the games to be on the shelf for a long time, don't you? Somebody buys one of them then is back in the store 2-3 months later buying the other, if not sooner.

I could see what you are saying happening in a different world, one where there was significant free DLC every moth, DLC that would keep the owners of one title engaged enough that they don't eventually go looking for another game.

Forza 2 doesn't have that. GT 5 is looking a hair better in that department but it is all marketing at this point, not something you can really bank on.

I think you speak for you and me, but I wonder about others. There are a lot of Forza 2 owners who are casual. I invested 300 hours or so. I don't know how many others who do. I'll buy both for sure, but I just wonder about the bottom 50%. Those people may choose if they own a 360 and a PS3. On the other hand, I don't even know how many of those people will exist by next Xmas or 2009.

You may be right it might not be a big factor in sales of GT 5 and Forza 3, but if they release within 1 month of each other, I do believe some people will choose one or the other to spend their $60 on...

[Deadend]

GT5 Prologue is a tool test. If you buy it, your a tool. Just wait for the real game and try and teach PD to make a fucking game, not a large demo. I'd never pay $40 bucks for an incomplete game. Even if many people do pay for incomplete games (Halo 2).

[Jack B]

how extensive do those other demos get?

Ive only recently gotten a PS3 in the last month, and have enjoyed a few of the free demos as well as PSN games. Isnt 40 cars , 5 tracks (10 with reverse) several online racing modes and leader boards a pretty substantial chunk of game?

and i agree with 51|random, its your choice to get this larger "demo". they had a prologue for GT4 didnt they, and some paid for it while most waited for the real thing

Prologue is definitely a big demo. Many of the racing demos come with 3 tracks. Prologue has 5. Forza 2 had 3 tracks and 24 cars, but wasn't online. The Moto GP demos typically have 3 tracks and about 10+ bikes. COD 4 had 3 maps and a ton of guns/perks etc. Halo 3, I didn't play much, It had multiple maps.

No question Prologue is bigger than the typical demo. It's disappointing the $40 doesn't go towards purchase, since my guess is the same tracks, cars will be in the full game. I think it should be less than $40. $20 maybe might be right for me, but it's not my call.

[51|RandoM]

You may be right it might not be a big factor in sales of GT 5 and Forza 3, but if they release within 1 month of each other, some people will choose one or the other to spend $60 on...

We'll just have to disagree on how many of those people there are. I tend to think that somebody who a) can afford a ps3 and a 360, and b) likes driving games, will c) buy both of them, regardless of when GT 5 ships.

On the other hand, I find it inconceivable to have a ps3, like driving games and not buy GT5. The possibility for that just doesn't exist in my world view. :D It is like having a 360, liking console FPS and not having a Halo game, simply inconceivable.

[Vanthar]

They're just trying to give fans of the series something to hold them over. It also helps them recoup development money. They did this before with GT4 and sold a Prologue version in Japan and Europe. They decided to bring it to the US this time. Prologue has sold like 200k or so in Japan. I expect it to do at least twice that here. No one is forcing you to purchase it and there is another free demo.

What's the big fucking deal? It has as many features as games similarly priced. I would prefer it to be cheaper as well, but you guys act like you wanted to buy it. None of you wanted to buy it anyway and you woulda whined and bitched if it was $20.

[Jack B]

We'll just have to disagree on how many of those people there are. I tend to think that somebody who a) can afford a ps3 and a 360, and b) likes driving games, will c) buy both of them, regardless of when GT 5 ships.

On the other hand, I find it inconceivable to have a ps3, like driving games and not buy GT5. The possibility for that just doesn't exist in my world view. :D It is like having a 360, liking console FPS and not having a Halo game, simply inconceivable.

Yep. Funny though. I finished Halo 3 single player with my fiance, which is extremely unusual. I almost never play single player FPS's. She liked it however, because she likes driving things and Halo 3 has a lot of vehicles. I definitely prefer COD 4 for online though and have only played about 2 hours of Halo 3 online...

Here's something on the potential sales of GT 5.

GT 4 sold 8.87 million units after being released in 2004/2005 to a PS2 installed base of probably 80 million or so.

GT 4
Japan 1.16
Americas 2.71
Europe 5
Total 8.87

Forza 2 sold 3.51 million units after being released in 2007 to a 360 installed base of about 10 million of so.

Forza 2
Japan 0.04
Americas 2.48
Europe 0.99
Total 3.51

If GT 4 sold 1 copy to every 9 PS2's in the installed base how will that translate with the PS3 only GT 5?

If the PS3 has a worldwide installed base of about 13 million or so, would that equal about 1.2 million or so in GT 5 sales? :eek:

I'm guessing it will be higher due to the PS3 owners being more willing to part with their money than PS2 owners, but still I wonder.

I expected GT 5 to be huge, but now that I look at the numbers, I wonder how big it will really be after all?

I'm really surprised Forza sold 3.41 million, but I think that much of that may be due to the bundle. Not sure how much though. Still 1-2 million in GT 5 sales will be far short of GT 4's 8 million.

[huntr]

Yep. Funny though. I finished Halo 3 single player with my fiance, which is extremely unusual. I almost never play single player FPS's. She liked it however, because she likes driving things and Halo 3 has a lot of vehicles. I definitely prefer COD 4 for online though and have only played about 2 hours of Halo 3 online...

Here's something on the potential sales of GT 5.

GT 4 sold 8.87 million units after being released in 2004/2005 to a PS2 installed base of probably 80 million or so.

GT 4
Japan 1.16
Americas 2.71
Europe 5
Total 8.87

Forza 2 sold 3.51 million units after being released in 2007 to a 360 installed base of about 10 million of so.

Forza 2
Japan 0.04
Americas 2.48
Europe 0.99
Total 3.51

If GT 4 sold 1 copy to every 9 PS2's in the installed base how will that translate with the PS3 only GT 5?

If the PS3 has a worldwide installed base of about 13 million or so, would that equal about 1.2 million or so in GT 5 sales? :eek:

I'm guessing it will be higher due to the PS3 owners being more willing to part with their money than PS2 owners, but still I wonder.

I expected GT 5 to be huge, but now that I look at the numbers, I wonder how big it will really be after all?

I'm really surprised Forza sold 3.41 million, but I think that much of that may be due to the bundle. Not sure how much though. Still 1-2 million in GT 5 sales will be far short of GT 4's 8 million.

i bet the adaption rate is based on the kind of gamers that own the system. By the time GT4 came out, the percentage of PS2 racing gamers was only so much and that there were probably alot of casual ps2 owners. GT3 was also already out for the system (not everyone wants to buy a new game, when they have the old one already, right? - casual gamers perspective)

The same case can be said for 360 as well as PS3 now . If u figure that there are more hardcore gamers owning the system since they were willing to adapt to next gen, the percentage of owners buying AAA racing titles should definitely be higher because they want the newest greatest games for their systems

[Dr.Finger]

Good grief. Are you sure? I figured 2008 for sure. That's getting way to close to a likely Forza 3 ship date.


I would be shocked if GT5 saw the light of day this year.

[Jack B]

i bet the adaption rate is based on the kind of gamers that own the system. By the time GT4 came out, the percentage of PS2 racing gamers was only so much and that there were probably alot of casual ps2 owners. GT3 was also already out for the system (not everyone wants to buy a new game, when they have the old one already, right? - casual gamers perspective)

The same case can be said for 360 as well as PS3 now . If u figure that there are more hardcore gamers owning the system since they were willing to adapt to next gen, the percentage of owners buying AAA racing titles should definitely be higher because they want the newest greatest games for their systems

Yeah, I was taking that into consideration, that's why I went with a potential 2 million unit number, which is nearly double the PS2 number. In that case 1 in 4 PS3 owners would buy GT 5 instead of 1 in 8.

Another factor though is that at the time GT 4 came out Forza wasn't released and when it was the Xbox had a much smaller install base. This time the tables are turned a bit. Forza 2 has established itself and the 360 base is much bigger.

If they both come out at nearly the same time I think they will put a dent in each others sales to some degree. How much I don't know, but things are different this time around for GT 5. Polyphony Digital has some competition, which they didn't really have with GT 4.

[huntr]

Yeah, I was taking that into consideration, that's why I went with a potential 2 million unit number, which is nearly double the PS2 number. In that case 1 in 4 PS3 owners would buy GT 5 instead of 1 in 4.

Another factor though is that at the time GT 4 came out Forza wasn't released and when it was the Xbox had a much smaller install base. This time the tables are turned a bit. Forza 2 has established itself and the 360 base is much bigger.

If they both come out at nearly the same time I think they will put a dent in each others sales to some degree. How much I don't know, but things are different this time around for GT 5. Polyphony Digital has some competition, which they didn't really have with GT 4.

true true true.

I think alot of people are waiting to see if there really is going to be a surge or not in PS3 sales with MGS4, GT5, Little Big Planet, GTAIV, and all those other games coming otu this year. Thatll affect the sales figures for GT5 more than anything.

Im just hoping the online racing modes in prologue are easy to use, and easy to find a way to race friends

[J Arcane]

Yanno, they've done this before.

They released a "prologue" like thing for GT4 as well, though it never made it stateside. One could also argue that the utterly stripped down GT3 was itself sometihng of a "prologue" version to GT4.

[51|RandoM]

If GT 4 sold 1 copy to every 9 PS2's in the installed base how will that translate with the PS3 only GT 5?

If the PS3 has a worldwide installed base of about 13 million or so, would that equal about 1.2 million or so in GT 5 sales? :eek:

Assuming that the 80 million install base figure means 80 million households were buying ps2 software at the time of GT4's release is not an assumption I am willing to make.

You're also dealing with GT4 on a platform late in its lifecycle, and a platform that already had GT3. PS3 on the other hand is still relatively young and only has one real driving title, DiRT, and no GT titles.

I think it is fairly safe to say that GT5 will have a higher tie ratio with PS3 than GT4 did with PS2.

How much more is just speculation.

Forza 2 is bundled with the 360 now, which gives it an inflated tie ratio anyways.

[Jack B]

true true true.

I think alot of people are waiting to see if there really is going to be a surge or not in PS3 sales with MGS4, GT5, Little Big Planet, GTAIV, and all those other games coming otu this year. Thatll affect the sales figures for GT5 more than anything.

Im just hoping the online racing modes in prologue are easy to use, and easy to find a way to race friends

I'm hoping to try the Japanese version of Prologue this week. Not sure if that will help with understanding friends invites, but still should be fun.

I've only had my PS3 for 2 days, so I'm still figuring out friends invites. I see the messages pop up, that someone signed on to PSN. At that point, would we normally need to drop out of the game to PSN and then send a chat or message and then have them join your game? I suppose the next trick is how to get them in your particular lobby.

I think I remember on Resistance if your friend was playing Resistance you could invite them. Some games have that some don't. I would hope GT 5 would have that ability if Sony hasn't gotten cross game invites or chat to work by then.

Was I correct in how the game invites on PSN work? After two days I'm pretty green to PSN's features still.

[Jack B]

Assuming that the 80 million install base figure means 80 million households were buying ps2 software at the time of GT4's release is not an assumption I am willing to make.

You're also dealing with GT4 on a platform late in its lifecycle, and a platform that already had GT3. PS3 on the other hand is still relatively young and only has one real driving title, DiRT, and no GT titles.

I think it is fairly safe to say that GT5 will have a higher tie ratio with PS3 than GT4 did with PS2.

How much more is just speculation.

Forza 2 is bundled with the 360 now, which gives it an inflated tie ratio anyways.

Yeah, I figured about double or so the tie in for GT 5 on the PS3 than the PS2. It does look like it has almost no hope of hitting that 8 million number again though given the PS3 install base will probably be about 13 million or so when GT 5 ships.

GT 6 might hit 8 million, but GT 5 almost certainly won't. That must be an interesting problem for the PD CFO. Not a lot he can do about the install base. He could create a PS2 version, but that's probably out of the question and the 360/Wii is a definite no go.

[51|RandoM]

All depends on the game in question, unfortunately.

Burnout Paradise is the first game I've seen that features in-game XMB and even then it is just for your friends list and messaging and only during singleplayer.

You can still send invites to friends playing burnout while you're playing online but you can't send messages to them, and/or invite people not actually playing Burnout.

A few steps in the right direction, at least.

[Jack B]

Yanno, they've done this before.

They released a "prologue" like thing for GT4 as well, though it never made it stateside. One could also argue that the utterly stripped down GT3 was itself sometihng of a "prologue" version to GT4.

Yes, the last Prologue (GT 4) sold about 1.3 million copies Worldwide. That's probably why they did it again. I'm guessing the last Prologue was profitable.

Gran Turismo 4 Prologue
Japan 0.79
Americas 0.00
Europe 0.57
Worldwide 1.36

The interesting thing is that Japan has very few PS3's compared to PS2's this time around. They are adding the Americas to the equation this time around, so that may balance it out, but I'm not hearing a lot of love for Prologue at $40 on this forum at least. We'll see I suppose.

If it's sold in stores, then NPD will have sales numbers.

[Jack B]

All depends on the game in question, unfortunately.

Burnout Paradise is the first game I've seen that features in-game XMB and even then it is just for your friends list and messaging and only during singleplayer.

You can still send invites to friends playing burnout while you're playing online but you can't send messages to them, and/or invite people not actually playing Burnout.

A few steps in the right direction, at least.

If Burnout can do some form of cross game invites, maybe it will be coming soon to PSN. Hope so.

So how would we coordinate a group of people/friends/EvAv'ers to play in a particular lobby online in most of the PS3 games?

I'm planning on renting (maybe buy later) Resistance to check it out. I tried the demo. Like most demos it's tough to learn too much about the game. Some parts were OK, but I prefer multiplayer for shooters over single player and that's all you get with the demo.

[51|RandoM]

Yeah, I figured about double or so the tie in for GT 5 on the PS3 than the PS2. It does look like it has almost no hope of hitting that 8 million number again though given the PS3 install base will probably be about 13 million or so when GT 5 ships.

I don't really understand how you can come to that conclusion, at least not when using GT3/GT4 PS2 data.

I think the worldwide PS3 install base will be significantly greater than 13 million at the time of GT5's release. I also think its growth will be accelerating at that point in time. I also expect GT5 to be on the shelf for the life of the PS3.

That said, I don't know what the ps3 lifetime will really be, or what install base it will reach so I have no idea whether or not GT5 will reach 8 million in sales. There are at least a couple analysts out there predicting the PS3 will eventually catch up to the Wii. The Wii will probably be old news at that point and we'll be playing Wii Advance, but whatever. :)

I think is unlikely this generation for any console racing game to hit 8 million, outside of possibly Mario Kart Wii.

The ps2 was special, I don't think we'll see domination like that again any time soon. Trying to hold up the efforts of the PS3(or the 360 for that matter) and consider them a failure because they don't live up to the PS2 seems kind of shortsighted.

The ps2 was in its prime, in a market it absolutely dominated. You can't say that about any console this generation... yet. :)

[51|RandoM]

If Burnout can do some form of cross game invites, maybe it will be coming soon to PSN. Hope so.

So how would we coordinate a group of people/friends/EvAv'ers to play in a particular lobby online in most of the PS3 games?

I'm planning on renting (maybe buy later) Resistance to check it out. I tried the demo. Like most demos it's tough to learn too much about the game. Some parts were OK, but I prefer multiplayer for shooters over single player and that's all you get with the demo.

It isn't cross game invites like on 360, it is basically sending them a message saying, "hey, come play this game with me". In some games they'll be able to read that message, in some games they won't without leaving the game.

The only invites in Burnout are to<>from people currently playing burnout. You can also message other people from in the game, but only if you are in singleplayer mode.

If I wanted to coordinate a group of people I'd send all of them a message saying lets play X game and then I would start a session.

PSN has a very long way to go to duplicate this particular bit of Live functionality. I'm not really confident that they ever will, although they have said, "this year." It requires a firmer hand with developers than Sony appears to be wielding, or willing to wield, imho.

Resistance is worth the money. The single player starts out slow but gets great in the latter 2/3s of the game. You can also play through the campaign 2 player co-op which is lots of fun. I didn't spend a lot of time with the multiplayer, I got my ass beaten down for a few days and moved on, honestly. :) It was a bit too fast for me, like UT fast. Then again, I wasn't exploring all of the game types and I am very picky when it comes to FPS gaming.

[Jack B]

It isn't cross game invites like on 360, it is basically sending them a message saying, "hey, come play this game with me". In some games they'll be able to read that message, in some games they won't without leaving the game.

The only invites in Burnout are to<>from people currently playing burnout. You can also message other people from in the game, but only if you are in singleplayer mode.

If I wanted to coordinate a group of people I'd send all of them a message saying lets play X game and then I would start a session.

PSN has a very long way to go to duplicate this particular bit of Live functionality. I'm not really confident that they ever will, although they have said, "this year." It requires a firmer hand with developers than Sony appears to be wielding, or willing to wield, imho.

Resistance is worth the money. The single player starts out slow but gets great in the latter 2/3s of the game. You can also play through the campaign 2 player co-op which is lots of fun. I didn't spend a lot of time with the multiplayer, I got my ass beaten down for a few days and moved on, honestly. :) It was a bit too fast for me, like UT fast. Then again, I wasn't exploring all of the game types and I am very picky when it comes to FPS gaming.

Thanks for the explanation. I know Sony has been more of a single player type company, but they've talked a lot about multiplayer. I sure hope they get it together on that front. Microsoft seems to force publishers to put in those features or they won't approve the game. Not necessarily fun for developers, but good for me.

Hmmm, I don't like UT fast sims either. It seemed a little slower than COD 4 from the demo. I'm surprised it's that fast in multiplayer. It's a rental then for sure. If you got your ass handed to you, I'll probably struggle at first as well. I'll rent it for sure though.

I just can't get into single player shooters. I still haven't finished Bioshock. I need to finish Mass Effect. I'll probably never touch COD 4's single player, although I've heard it's amazing. Online is just too much fun. I prefer human opponents when possible. Computer AI still can't compete with the unpredictability of humans. It's a bit more polite though, I'll give it that! :D

[Jack B]

I don't really understand how you can come to that conclusion, at least not when using GT3/GT4 PS2 data.

I think the worldwide PS3 install base will be significantly greater than 13 million at the time of GT5's release. I also think its growth will be accelerating at that point in time. I also expect GT5 to be on the shelf for the life of the PS3.

That said, I don't know what the ps3 lifetime will really be, or what install base it will reach so I have no idea whether or not GT5 will reach 8 million in sales. There are at least a couple analysts out there predicting the PS3 will eventually catch up to the Wii. The Wii will probably be old news at that point and we'll be playing Wii Advance, but whatever. :)

I think is unlikely this generation for any console racing game to hit 8 million, outside of possibly Mario Kart Wii.

The ps2 was special, I don't think we'll see domination like that again any time soon. Trying to hold up the efforts of the PS3(or the 360 for that matter) and consider them a failure because they don't live up to the PS2 seems kind of shortsighted.

The ps2 was in its prime, in a market it absolutely dominated. You can't say that about any console this generation... yet. :)

Yeah, I was probably quite low with the $13m install base number. I just checked and the PS3 has close to $10m now worldwide after a couple of Xmas seasons and 14 months or so. It could be $20m by next Xmas.

I'd agree PS2 domination won't be happening again this gen. I just hope GT 5 ships sooner rather than later. PD needs it. I need it. Xmas at the latest, please.

[Virtuoso]

you honestly don't see the difference in the two situations here?

Sigh, I know there is a difference, all I am saying is that the situations are not wholly unlike one another. And while I enjoy crackdown quite a bit, ask any GS or EB employee how many copies of it got traded in after the H3 beta was over and done with.

Also, I'm not buying the game, but I think that 50 cars and 5 tracks for 40 dollars, while a bit over priced, is certainly ALOT more than just a demo.

[Jack B]

Sigh, I know there is a difference, all I am saying is that the situations are not wholly unlike one another. And while I enjoy crackdown quite a bit, ask any GS or EB employee how many copies of it got traded in after the H3 beta was over and done with.

Also, I'm not buying the game, but I think that 50 cars and 5 tracks for 40 dollars, while a bit over priced, is certainly ALOT more than just a demo.

Although, there probably were some Crackdown's returned after the Halo 3 beta (I wouldn't know how many) many of those might have been turned in anyway as many games are for trade in. Many would have waited in that case until the Halo 3 beta was over, so they aren't necessarily connected. Some yes, but hard to say how many.

Just to justify a bit the popularity of Crackdown. It was rated number 8 most popular game by Eurogamer readers for 2007. That's pretty impressive. Halo 3 was number 6. I think Crackdown was a very good game in it's own right. I busted my butt just so I could climb that tall bulding and jump into the pool! :D

Crackdown number 8 most popular for 2007 by Eurogamer readers. (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=91458&page=5)

[Disgustipated]

If Sony was smart, Prologue would be a "pre-order." You buy Prologue, and then when GT5 comes out, you get it for $10.

Yanno, they've done this before.

They released a "prologue" like thing for GT4 as well, though it never made it stateside. One could also argue that the utterly stripped down GT3 was itself sometihng of a "prologue" version to GT4.


You're an idiot, GT3 wasn't "stripped down." It didn't have as many cars as GT2, but it had a shitload of content regardless. One of the finest PS2 racers, for sure. Anyone that would argue that it was "stripped down" is grasping at straws.

[Jack B]

If Sony was smart, Prologue would be a "pre-order." You buy Prologue, and then when GT5 comes out, you get it for $10.

Ummm, that would work for me. $20 would even work. I doubt it will happen though. I think there plan is $40 + $60.

[NightRain]

Good grief. Are you sure? I figured 2008 for sure. That's getting way to close to a likely Forza 3 ship date.

I just checked and the original Forza Motorsport came out

Forza Motorsport - May 3, 2005
Forza 2 - May 30, 2007
Forza 3 - May??? 2009

Umm, I haven't heard, but I'd say there is a reasonable chance for Forza 3 to be out by May of 2009. Could it be possible it ships before GT 5???

If so, I'd imagine we'll start to see a bunch of information, videos, feature set stuff on Forza 3 within 6-9 months of launch. That would be this fall. GT 5 better hurry up or the bar, that Forza raised may get raised again.

No way it will be out in 2008, I just can't see it happening. According to what they've said it takes them a long time just to render a car (a car you can't even damage mind you). GT4 prologue came out in Dec 2003, and GT4 full came out in Feb 2005 (14 months later). I can only assume since they haven't set a firm release date yet and the fact they have admitted GT5 involves much more work compared to GT4 that it will be at least as long but probably longer before we see a FULL GT5.

[DigitalFirefly]

So does anyone know if Prologue has vehicle tuning and parts?

[Inspector Fowler]

Who is honestly surprised by this? Any company who knows it has a captive (read: rabid) market is smart to do this. This is why the first prologue never made it over here, though. From my limited observations, the Japanese market tends to be more obsessive about buying every version of a beloved series and complains much less about it.

That said- I would buy this if it had car tuning in it. That's what makes GT or any sim game fun for me- the "one more part" mentality. I sometimes lose interest in racing games when I get to the point where I have enough money to just start buying and immediately "maxing" each car.

So yeah, I'm a sucker. I'd buy it if it had a full feature set, even if it didn't have very many cars or tracks, just so I could play the hell out of it.

Then again, how many people buy Madden on the "off years" when it really amounts to a roster change and some new EA Trax?

[Jack B]

No way it will be out in 2008, I just can't see it happening. According to what they've said it takes them a long time just to render a car (a car you can't even damage mind you). GT4 prologue came out in Dec 2003, and GT4 full came out in Feb 2005 (14 months later). I can only assume since they haven't set a firm release date yet and the fact they have admitted GT5 involves much more work compared to GT4 that it will be at least as long but probably longer before we see a FULL GT5.

I didn't know the lag from previous Prologue's to full game. 14 months takes us to May/June of 2009. Headlong into a potential showdown with Forza 3.

I imagine Forza 3 will add new features. This should be a significant showdown. I'll probably buy both, but it should be fun. I wish they were staggered by a year.

The Turn 10 guys aren't saying anything about Forza 3 yet, but they probably will in the next few months.

[Katana-Wolf]

I think I will buy this.

If Sony is smart they put some exclusive cars in this, cars that can be used in GT5 later and remain exclusive for the people who bought Prologue. Seems like a very NCSoft thing to do...

[DarkDaY]

well, I cant figure out which on is which, is this GT5? the demo, or the game after the demo that is a small game before the full one?

so confused, and If I bought it expecting a full game for that I would be a little dissapointed.
They need to clarify this for the uninformed as much as possible so people know what they are getting. Most will buy off the name alone thinking its a full game.

The rest wont care and buy it anyways no matter what the cost for the love of the game, and there is nothing wrong with that as its their money to spend.
Hell, I bought all things oblivion, everything except the horse armor. *thought about it,, for a second*

[TrackZero]

So when does the actual "Gran Turismo 5" come out? Sheesh.

[Jack B]

well, I cant figure out which on is which, is this GT5? the demo, or the game after the demo that is a small game before the full one?

so confused, and If I bought it expecting a full game for that I would be a little dissapointed.
They need to clarify this for the uninformed as much as possible so people know what they are getting. Most will buy off the name alone thinking its a full game.

The rest wont care and buy it anyways no matter what the cost for the love of the game, and there is nothing wrong with that as its their money to spend.
Hell, I bought all things oblivion, everything except the horse armor. *thought about it,, for a second*

It's in between HD Concept and GT 5 the full game. It's substantial. More than a demo, but less than a full game (ie GT 5 when it comes out).

I think it's 50 cars, 5 tracks with online multiplayer for $40. Polyphony Digital has done a few "Prologues" in the past. I believe GT 4 Prologue was only available in Europe and Japan. It did sell well. About 1.3m copies compared to 8m for the game. I imagine most people know what they're buying.

It's a bit pricey, but people do buy it. I might, but I'm not the typical buyer. I'm thinking the US might not take well to this strategy given the responses on this forum, but we'll see soon enough.

[Jack B]

So when does the actual "Gran Turismo 5" come out? Sheesh.

We were just talking about that. It took 14 months from Prologue to release of the full game for GT 4.

The US Prologue is due out in a couple months, so if 14 months holds up we're talking about mid 2009 for GT 5. I think it needs to be sooner, because Forza 2 shipped 2 years after Forza 1. Thus, Forza 3 would be out in May of 2009 if it does another 2 year dev cycle.

[Hugenex]

Attention Dr.Finger it looks like the news bit on the front page may need some fixing. According to VE3D (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/36393/GT5-Prologue-40-Available-April-17th) GT5 Prologue will include: 37 cars, 10 circuits, 3 modes, online play.
I think you need to look in to it...

If the above info indeed is correct, that kinda makes about 40% of this treads posts based on the unproven facts. GT5 Prologue might actually offer a little somethin' somethin' after all.

[Jack B]

Attention Dr.Finger it looks like the news bit on the front page may need some fixing. According to VE3D (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/36393/GT5-Prologue-40-Available-April-17th) GT5 Prologue will include: 37 cars, 10 circuits, 3 modes, online play.
I think you need to look in to it...

If the above info indeed is correct, that kinda makes about 40% of this treads posts based on the unproven facts. GT5 Prologue might actually offer a little somethin' somethin' after all.

Gamespot just posted the quote below in news. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6185238.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0)

They claim 5 tracks not 10 as Voodoo Extreme reported. 60 cars not 37. That's just about the same little somethin' somethin' we've been discussing in this thread.

Developed by Polyphony Digital, the game will contain some 60 detailed replicas of real-life cars from Nissan, Audi, and Ferrari. It will also sport five racetracks (not 16, as initially reported), including re-creations of international locales such as Daytona International Speedway, which will allow 16 players to race together online. It will also feature a new in-cockpit view with realistic recreations of each vehicle's various dashboard displays, and will fully support the forthcoming DualShock 3 controller's force feedback functionality.

[Micasa]

It could be 5 tracks but 10 "circuits" though. It wouldn't be the first game to take one track or environment and make multiple maps/tracks out of it.

[Sandman]

I would buy this but it's coming out in April....and that's GTA territory. I try to only buy one new game every month that doesn't start with an N.

[Jack B]

It could be 5 tracks but 10 "circuits" though. It wouldn't be the first game to take one track or environment and make multiple maps/tracks out of it.

It could be. Forza 2 called them ribbons, but I'd expect Sony/Polyphony Digital would say more than 5 if they could, so it's likely 5 tracks/ribbons.

My understanding is the current GT 5 Prologue in Japan has 5 tracks/ribbons, it's likely the same as the Japanese version without the Japanese menu's.

[DubiousQuality]

Damn, you're clever!

As for the pricing... I'll state the obvious. If it's too much, don't buy it.
Fans will buy it, if they think it's worth it. If not, they won't.

Team Fortress 2 sells for $30, and it only has 9 characters and five maps.
Warhawk sells for $40 and it only has 5 maps.

The pricing doesn't seem horribly out of line, to me. The problem is, people are thinking of it as a demo, when it's not. It has the content of some full games. 50 cars? Many full racing games don't have that many cars.

I'm not saying I would buy it (or even the full game, since I don't care much for the GT series), but it's not as big of a rip off as some of you are making it out to be, when you compare it to many other full games.

And all 3 are a rip off. As was Shadowrun. The people willing to pay for this may as well get Forza2 instead.

[Inspector Fowler]

My understanding of HD concept was that it was simply GT4 with an HD re-skinning. No actual work was done on the physics or anything. I downloaded it and played it, it was kind of "meh" for me.

However, I've been absolutely loving the GT5:Prologue:Demo that my fictional Japanese self downloaded- at least in a "damn that's pretty" kind of way. I also like that it has the GT:TV in it, or at least some kind of "proof of concept" things for it (I can't read any of the damn menus so I am a little lost sometimes).

After scouring the GT site (http://www.gran-turismo.com/en/), they don't mention tuning the cars at all. Considering how much else they talk about, I think it's safe to assume that tuning isn't part of Prologue.

And now, thinking about GT TV, I might have to recant my earlier statement. If that feature is intact for the US release of Prologue, I might buy it just for the Top Gear videos.

[Hugenex]

It could be. Forza 2 called them ribbons, but I'd expect Sony/Polyphony Digital would say more than 5 if they could, so it's likely 5 tracks/ribbons.

My understanding is the current GT 5 Prologue in Japan has 5 tracks/ribbons, it's likely the same as the Japanese version without the Japanese menu's.

Here we go. If anyone is willing to google JP. version maybe we could at least have some solid info to argue over...

[Hugenex]

Play-Asia says the following regarding GT5 Prologue's content:

37 cars
5 Courses, 10 Layouts
Game modes: Arcade (Singe Race with Maximum 16 Cars), Arcade (Time Trial), Race Events (3 categories / 24 events)
Visual Output: 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p

Could this be the source of VE3D's post?

[Jack B]

However, I've been absolutely loving the GT5:Prologue:Demo that my fictional Japanese self downloaded- at least in a "damn that's pretty" kind of way.

Does the Japanese version of the Prologue demo support the Logitech G25 wheel? Also, does the demo support multiplayer online and/or AI cars offline?

[NightRain]

Gamespot just posted the quote below in news. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6185238.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;0)

They claim 5 tracks not 10 as Voodoo Extreme reported. 60 cars not 37. That's just about the same little somethin' somethin' we've been discussing in this thread.

There are 10 track. 5 regular ones and 5 mirrored versions.

I know its a lame what to count 10, but they did it.

[Jack B]

Play-Asia says the following regarding GT5 Prologue's content:

37 cars
5 Courses, 10 Layouts
Game modes: Arcade (Singe Race with Maximum 16 Cars), Arcade (Time Trial), Race Events (3 categories / 24 events)
Visual Output: 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p

Could this be the source of VE3D's post?

10 layouts is pretty decent, IMO. Forza 2 ended up with about 45 layouts/ribbbons and I believe GT 5 should have more.

I sure hope it has a robust scoreboard system. I'm really bummed about HD: Concept's measly top 10 only scoreboards and I don't believe it shows friends either. Not that I'd have any friends in the top 10 in the world anyway. Well, I do in Forza 2, but after 2 days, I only have about 10 PSN friends...

Sure hope Prologue matches Forza 2's scoreboards. At least in game. I don't expect website integration like Forza 2's. Maybe for GT 5, but probably not for Prologue. I like to challenge myself to move up the rankings in race games and scoreboards make a difference.

[Jack B]

There are 10 track. 5 regular ones and 5 mirrored versions.

I know its a lame what to count 10, but they did it.

Oh crap. I hate mirrored versions... I never raced those in Forza 2. Very few did. Once every 20 hours someone would pick a mirrored version. I left the lobby at that point. Still, it does offer a different view of the track and if you get bored with 5 tracks it give you a bit more content.

[Hugenex]

Does the Japanese version of the Prologue demo support the Logitech G25 wheel? Also, does the demo support multiplayer online and/or AI cars offline?

The demo does support the wheel so one would assume the GT5 Prologue would too.

[Wyrm]

I would equate buying this demo to paying for the Halo 3 maps, knowing full well they will be free in a few months. Sure, you get a taste of something that no one will get to see for awhile, but you essentially just paid money to see a taste of content that other people will get for free not too long from now. In the same regard, you're paying a forty dollar premium here to get a cursory glance at a game that won't be out for a long ass time. You're paying forty bucks, then paying full price when the game comes out.

That doesn't make sense to me. Why pay for content twice? Why pay for something that will be free in a few months? Supporting that business model is telling those fuckers that you're more than happy to get nickel and dimed for the rest of time.

[Dr.Finger]

The official Playstation site (http://www.us.playstation.com/PS3/Games/Gran_Turismo_5_Prologue)is where I got my info from. This is what they say: * Fifty cars and five race tracks, including Fuji Speedway, Suzuka Circuit, and for the first time ever, Daytona International Speedway.
* All-new interior dash view puts you in the driver’s seat like never before.
* Race online with up to 16 players to prove your skills.
* New online community features including Gran Turismo TV, featuring worldwide automotive and motorsport programming.
* Rendered in beautiful 1080p at 60fps with crisp, realistic lighting effects (replays rendered in 1080p 30fps).
While this may be incorrect, I doubt it.

[Virtuoso]

And all 3 are a rip off. As was Shadowrun. The people willing to pay for this may as well get Forza2 instead.

TF2 and Warhawk are ripoffs?

Your opinion officially doesn't count.

[DeathtollWRX]

Any car damage modeling? I know it's not a huge deal to some of you but to be a simulation it needs it both visually and performance degration

[NightRain]

Any car damage modeling? I know it's not a huge deal to some of you but to be a simulation it needs it both visually and performance degration

Nope, full GT5 won't have it either.

[51|RandoM]

Oh crap. I hate mirrored versions... I never raced those in Forza 2.

Good thing they aren't just mirrored versions. Don't believe everything you read here.

Why not just go to the official prologue website?

http://www.gran-turismo.com/gt5p/index_en.html

Not only does it show you the courses graphically, including details, it also shows you both layouts for each course.

They are not "just mirrored". So much bullshit around here from people who haven't even played Prologue, or its demo. I don't mean you, btw, I mean the goober who said they were just mirrored, for instance.

[51|RandoM]

Who is honestly surprised by this? Any company who knows it has a captive (read: rabid) market is smart to do this. This is why the first prologue never made it over here, though. From my limited observations, the Japanese market tends to be more obsessive about buying every version of a beloved series and complains much less about it.

It isn't how the Japanese are about series in general so much as it is how they are about Gran Turismo. They have Gran Turismo TV, etc., and a bunch of other media tie-ins to the series that do not exist anywhere else.

It is a very big franchise over there.

[Jack B]

Good thing they aren't just mirrored versions. Don't believe everything you read here.

Why not just go to the official prologue website?

http://www.gran-turismo.com/gt5p/index_en.html

Not only does it show you the courses graphically, including details, it also shows you both layouts for each course.

They are not "just mirrored". So much bullshit around here from people who haven't even played Prologue, or its demo. I don't mean you, btw, I mean the goober who said they were just mirrored, for instance.

Man, it's unbelievable how many web sites have different information. I'm tempted to go with the Polyphony Digital site, but I'm starting to wonder if the English translation on that is correct as well...

At this point, I'll just wait a couple of months. 5 tracks, 10 tracks it's not that big a difference to me anyway. I'm more concerned with some of the other features included in Prologue. Hopefully, I'll be able to check out the Japanese version of Prologue this week.

[mister_slim]

Yeah, I figured about double or so the tie in for GT 5 on the PS3 than the PS2. It does look like it has almost no hope of hitting that 8 million number again though given the PS3 install base will probably be about 13 million or so when GT 5 ships.

GT 6 might hit 8 million, but GT 5 almost certainly won't. That must be an interesting problem for the PD CFO. Not a lot he can do about the install base. He could create a PS2 version, but that's probably out of the question and the 360/Wii is a definite no go.

You should remember that GT5 is going to continue selling for a long time. You could look at when GT3 launched and how many copies it sold (approximately 15 million).

[oldjadedgamer]

You should remember that GT5 is going to continue selling for a long time. You could look at when GT3 launched and how many copies it sold (approximately 15 million).

GT3 was a pack in with the console

[51|RandoM]

GT3 was a pack in with the console

...and you've traveled into the future and determined that GT5 will never be packed in with a PS3? If I had a time machine like that I wouldn't be spending time playing and talking about videogames.

[Headcase]

They need to get some money back to continue developing.

This is true. It costs them $350 000 000 000 000 in computers and over 3 millenia in man-hours (so, 3 man-millenia) to develop each car model. I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that our planet is actually a giant computer calculating how to make a perfectly rendered 3d model of a Celica.

[Dag-Sabot]

This is true. It costs them $350 000 000 000 000 in computers and over 3 millenia in man-hours (so, 3 man-millenia) to develop each car model. I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that our planet is actually a giant computer calculating how to make a perfectly rendered 3d model of a Celica. I really needed a laugh to get going today. Thanks man.

[Spigot]

This is true. It costs them $350 000 000 000 000 in computers and over 3 millenia in man-hours (so, 3 man-millenia) to develop each car model. I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that our planet is actually a giant computer calculating how to make a perfectly rendered 3d model of a Celica.Thanks man. You've summed up my thoughts on the matter perfectly.

[Gorvi]

GT3 was a pack in with the console
Wasn't that just a limited edition model (not an LE console itself, just the package)? I'm pretty sure the GT3 version of the PS2 was never the only option, sorta negating the argument that it only sold that much because it was a pack in.

[GargantulaKon]

So that means the real Gran Turismo 5 will not be out for another year or two? I thought Prologue was already released. The development is moving along slowly, but hopefully this ensures a rock solid game when it is finally released.

[51|RandoM]

So that means the real Gran Turismo 5 will not be out for another year or two? I thought Prologue was already released. The development is moving along slowly, but hopefully this ensures a rock solid game when it is finally released.

No, it doesn't mean that.

Prologue is already out in Japan and Europe.

[tayaya]

GT5 Prologue has 8 tracks, thank you. Not 5. Suzuka can be raced as the full circuit or just the West section. Daytona has the Road Course or the Superspeedway oval. And Fuji has a GT variant and an F1 variant, but that one boils down to just 1 tiny chicane in difference.

There is a ton of meat to the game as it is. Lots of race events (4 tiers of 8 events each, plus manufacturer specific events for each of the game's manufacturers), downlaodable video, online play (with 16 players).... it's more than a demo, but no one on the forums will ever get that into their heads simply because there's a "proper" GT5 in the works somewhere.

I've poured about 20 hours or so into GT5 Prologue and I'm not finished yet... I've only done about 50% of the events, and most of them are silvers right now. That sounds like a lot more meat than a "demo" in my book.

On top of that, it's got the absolute best car models I've ever seen in a racing game, and some of the nicest and most convincing reflections and lighting I've witnessed as well. The London track goes nuts with the HDR, and although some of the textues there look like butt when you pause the game, most of them are excellent and the city in motion is very photorealistic. The interiors on the cars are spectacular, right down to little details like environment reflections on the steering wheel badges, for cars with big shiny ones like the Honda Integra. The game looks stunning on a level that no other console racer can even touch. I played it back to back with Forza 2 once to compare handling and lap times, and the differences in Suzuka's detail were astounding.

Anyone that's passing on Prologue because they don't want to "pay for a demo" is seriously missing out. There's a ton of content, a lot to do, and the game is spectacular. But hey what do I know, I just own the thing.

[silv]

GT5 Prologue has 8 tracks, thank you. Not 5. Suzuka can be raced as the full circuit or just the West section. Daytona has the Road Course or the Superspeedway oval. And Fuji has a GT variant and an F1 variant, but that one boils down to just 1 tiny chicane in difference.

There is a ton of meat to the game as it is. Lots of race events (4 tiers of 8 events each, plus manufacturer specific events for each of the game's manufacturers), downlaodable video, online play (with 16 players).... it's more than a demo, but no one on the forums will ever get that into their heads simply because there's a "proper" GT5 in the works somewhere.

I've poured about 20 hours or so into GT5 Prologue and I'm not finished yet... I've only done about 50% of the events, and most of them are silvers right now. That sounds like a lot more meat than a "demo" in my book.

On top of that, it's got the absolute best car models I've ever seen in a racing game, and some of the nicest and most convincing reflections and lighting I've witnessed as well. The London track goes nuts with the HDR, and although some of the textues there look like butt when you pause the game, most of them are excellent and the city in motion is very photorealistic. The interiors on the cars are spectacular, right down to little details like environment reflections on the steering wheel badges, for cars with big shiny ones like the Honda Integra. The game looks stunning on a level that no other console racer can even touch. I played it back to back with Forza 2 once to compare handling and lap times, and the differences in Suzuka's detail were astounding.

Anyone that's passing on Prologue because they don't want to "pay for a demo" is seriously missing out. There's a ton of content, a lot to do, and the game is spectacular. But hey what do I know, I just own the thing.

I'm not doubting the prologue has $40 worth of content. I am doubting that the full game will have $60 worth of content over the $40 demo.

If you could take your 40 bucks and apply it to the 60 bucks of the full game, that is an entirely different story.

[51|RandoM]

Hmmm, wonder what the Sour Grapes Crew(tm) will make of that informative post.

[tayaya]

I'm not doubting the prologue has $40 worth of content. I am doubting that the full game will have $60 worth of content over the $40 demo.

If you could take your 40 bucks and apply it to the 60 bucks of the full game, that is an entirely different story.

Given that it's a full year away, and will have many more tracks and many more cars, tuning, as well as lots of goodness from the guys at Top Gear, I will not mind paying $60 for the full game. If they were releasing the game a month or two after Prologue I could see this being a problem, and then yes I would skip Prologue... but given the huge expanse of time and knowing that the final game will be even better... I'm OK with paying a little now and then buying the final game next year.

[Spigot]

Hmmm, wonder what the Sour Grapes Crew(tm) will make of that informative post.Why not call the Prologue GT5 and whatever GT5 ends up being GT6? If you're going to argue that the Prologue is essentially a nearly complete game, why not sell it as such?

Take THAT!

[tayaya]

Because while it's enough to be a full game... it's not enough to compete with the other GT games before it.

Also, for those that think GTHD is a good holdover until GT5 proper comes out.... go try the Prologue demo and check out how improved it is over GTHD in just about every way.

[oldjadedgamer]

Wasn't that just a limited edition model (not an LE console itself, just the package)? I'm pretty sure the GT3 version of the PS2 was never the only option, sorta negating the argument that it only sold that much because it was a pack in.

It was limited but it wasn't a limited edition. Kind of like the core 360, one day they just stopped making it. By buying the bundle, you saved $20 bucks off the game so it was pretty much a no brainer at the time. I'm just saying that when games are pack in's, their numbers get inflated and can't really be compared to games that are sold alone. For instance, GT4 wasn't a pack in and didn't sell as well as GT3 even though there was a larger install base when GT4 came out.

Resident EGM Sony fanboy Shane Bettenhausen has stated many times that even he waited to get the GT3 pack when buying his PS2.

[oldjadedgamer]

Hmmm, wonder what the Sour Grapes Crew(tm) will make of that informative post.

Why waste their time with prologues and demos and just concentrate on getting the full game out. These are extremely timely distractions that take away from dev time on the full product.

Shoot, I'm still waiting for my Gran Turismo Mobile...

[Gorvi]

It was limited but it wasn't a limited edition. Kind of like the core 360, one day they just stopped making it. By buying the bundle, you saved $20 bucks off the game so it was pretty much a no brainer at the time. I'm just saying that when games are pack in's, their numbers get inflated and can't really be compared to games that are sold alone. For instance, GT4 wasn't a pack in and didn't sell as well as GT3 even though there was a larger install base when GT4 came out.

Resident EGM Sony fanboy Shane Bettenhausen has stated many times that even he waited to get the GT3 pack when buying his PS2.
I see what you mean, but that's almost like saying that because a game became a Greatest Hits title that it's sales were inflated. I can see if the game came with the system at no extra charge, and then I'd totally agree, but it didn't.

GT4 selling less is also a bad example. MGS3 sold less than MGS2 with a larger install base. FFXII sold less than FFX-2 which sold less than FFX. It happens with some series for whatever reason, regardless of the install base.

[Jack B]

.... it's more than a demo, but no one on the forums will ever get that into their heads simply because there's a "proper" GT5 in the works somewhere.

Thanks for the write up, but to be fair myself and many others in this thread have agreed Prologue is more than a demo.

[51|RandoM]

Why waste their time with prologues and demos and just concentrate on getting the full game out. These are extremely timely distractions that take away from dev time on the full product.

So tell us about your trip to Polyphony Digital and what you've learned about the inner workings of their particular development process and staffing.

I mean you did do that, right? You would have to to call Prologue an extremely timely distraction, right? I mean you would have to know how much duration creation of Prologue added to the project plan for GT5, right?

Well, fill is us in on everything you learned while you were there.

Until then, I'll reflect on the very simple fact that Polyphony Digital did the same thing with GT3 and GT4, and perhaps they know more about it than either you or I do. :)

[oldjadedgamer]

So tell us about your trip to Polyphony Digital and what you've learned about the inner workings of their particular development process and staffing.

I mean you did do that, right? You would have to to call Prologue an extremely timely distraction, right? I mean you would have to know how much duration creation of Prologue added to the project plan for GT5, right?

Well, fill is us in on everything you learned while you were there.

Until then, I'll reflect on the very simple fact that Polyphony Digital did the same thing with GT3 and GT4, and perhaps they know more about it than either you or I do. :)

I don't recall a GT Prologue ever being released in the States or Europe. Got a link to that? Since it's a simple fact right?

And if I ever went to Polyphony Digital it would be to ask where the F is my GT Mobile that I was promised pre-launch of the PSP. *Something* has taken their time away from making that game.

[Gorvi]

I don't recall a GT Prologue ever being released in the States or Europe. Got a link to that? Since it's a simple fact right?
So the problem is that they decided to release it outside of Japan this time? :confused:

[51|RandoM]

I don't recall a GT Prologue ever being released in the States or Europe. Got a link to that? Since it's a simple fact right?

And if I ever went to Polyphony Digital it would be to ask where the F is my GT Mobile that I was promised pre-launch of the PSP. *Something* has taken their time away from making that game.

They were released in Japan.

Doesn't have any bearing on the argument. Regardless of what country they release the game in you don't know jack shit about how long it takes to create a GT prologue or how much time it would add to the overall project.

I mean if you do know something, by all means tell us. We would love to hear it.

As far as GT Mobile goes you might as well give up on that bit of marketing. While it comes in handy for deflecting arguments with people who aren't paying attention it isn't likely to be a game you'll be playing at any point in time.

Oh, one other thing. Your assumption that something is taking away from their development time and that is why GT5 is taking longer than planned is most likely yet another false assumption. You may or may not be aware that this industry in general isn't noted for being able to meet original schedule. Stuff just takes longer than planned sometimes, heck, this is a great opportunity for you to try to blame how difficult it may be to work on the PS3.

Oh wait, it can only be difficult to work on the PS3 if you are complaining about the PS3, but if you try to use it to explain a development delay that you are trying to blame on a prologue you would never buy in the first place it doesn't fly. WTF-ever is about how I'd sum it up.

[oldjadedgamer]

They were released in Japan.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this entire thread about the US version? So they have never released it ever in the states so your comment of "I'll reflect on the very simple fact that Polyphony Digital did the same thing with GT3 and GT4" is incorrect in this thread.

Are you assuming that another team is doing the translation work into English and all other European languages? Is another team doing all the integration or is it safe to say that all this extra work is taking away from the full version.

Also, when has PD ever done a demo for the Prologue? You said this has all been done before but I don't recall them ever doing extra work to pull out three versions of the prologue (JPN/EUR/US) and then on top of that three demos for the prologue as well (JPN/EUR/US).

You can't say that this isn't a huge amount of extra work that is taking time away from the actual development. You don't need to be an employee of PD to see this.

Regardless of what country they release the game in you don't know jack shit about how long it takes to create a GT prologue or how much time it would add to the overall project.

Ironically enough, the EXACT same could be said about you. You don't know "jack shit" how much extra time it takes away from the full version of the game to make these extra side projects.

[Gorvi]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this entire thread about the US version? So they have never released it ever in the states.

Are you assuming that another team is doing the translation work into English and all other European languages? Is another team doing all the integration or is it safe to say that all this extra work is taking away from the full version.

Also, when has PD ever done a demo for the Prologue? You said this has all been done before but I don't recall them ever doing extra work to pull out three versions of the prologue (JPN/EUR/US) and then on top of that three demos for the prologue as well (JPN/EUR/US).

You can't say that this isn't a huge amount of extra work that is taking time away from the actual development. You don't need to be an employee of PD to see this.
How much localization do you think there is, really? GT isn't exactly an RPG with a ton of text, now is it? Or even voice work for that matter. The whole of the text in all of Prologue could probably be translated in a few hours at most (guessing here, as I've never played it), and I wouldn't think implementing that into the game would be a large undertaking.

As for the demos, those should be the same across all regions (assuming they do release the demos in the US and EU, that is) and would have the same localizations as the full version of Prologue.

[tayaya]

Until then, I'll reflect on the very simple fact that Polyphony Digital did the same thing with GT3 and GT4, and perhaps they know more about it than either you or I do. :)

They did a Prologue for GT3? First I've ever heart of it! They did release a pair of GT Concept games (Tokyo and Geneva) before GT4 Prologue.... but those were different! They came out AFTER GT3, did not carry a GT3 branding, and had cars that were not in GT3 at all (or GT4 either for some). It's enough to make your head spin.

What I DID like though, was that getting all golds in Concept Tokyo unlocked your S license in GT3 and gave you a boatload of money. It was still tough, but not as tough as that S-license shit!

[KingGorilla]

That is outlandish for price. Maybe if they offered a discounted rate on the full game or half price to "upgrade."

But Prologue is nothing new, just new in the US. The Japanese have gotten them before.

[51|RandoM]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this entire thread about the US version? So they have never released it ever in the states.

What is your point? They could be releasing it in 100 countries with a billion languages and you would still have no idea how long a prologue adds to the production schedule.

They have made prologues. They have done it multiple times.


Are you assuming that another team is doing the translation work into English and all other European languages? Is another team doing all the integration or is it safe to say that all this extra work is taking away from the full version.

Do a little bit of research about how the localization process works. Please.


Also, when has PD ever done a demo for the Prologue? You said this has all been done before but I don't recall them ever doing extra work to pull out three versions of the prologue (JPN/EUR/US) and then on top of that three demos for the prologue as well (JPN/EUR/US).


Unless you know more about putting out a demo for a prologue than they do I don't really see your point. If you do, then by all means enlighten us, I'm sure we'd love to hear the details.

You can't say that this isn't a huge amount of extra work that is taking time away from the actual development. You don't need to be an employee of PD to see this.


I didn't say it, did I? You are the one saying it is, and you're doing so based upon: nothing. I'm not saying that it does or does not affect the schedule significantly. What I am saying is that when you say this that you are pulling it out of your ass.


Ironically enough, the EXACT same could be said about you. You don't know "jack shit" how much extra time it takes away from the full version of the game to make these extra side projects.

Ironically, though, it can't by anybody who can read. I am not saying that it does or does not add significant time to the schedule. I am saying that when you say this that you are pulling it out of your ass.

Please, tell us what data is leading you to the conclusion that Prologue is adding a timely delay to the release of GT5.

Simple question. On what are you basing this?

Edit: I'll be in transit for the next hour or so. With that time you can tell us why you are coming to this conclusion... or you can continue to deflect.

[Jack B]

RandoM, what if Oldjadedgamer just said Prologue and the Prologue demo "probably" took resources away from making GT 5 or slowed development of GT 5, would that work?

[mister_slim]

I see what you mean, but that's almost like saying that because a game became a Greatest Hits title that it's sales were inflated. I can see if the game came with the system at no extra charge, and then I'd totally agree, but it didn't.

GT4 selling less is also a bad example. MGS3 sold less than MGS2 with a larger install base. FFXII sold less than FFX-2 which sold less than FFX. It happens with some series for whatever reason, regardless of the install base.

Install base at a game's launch is pretty meaningless to the game's lifetime sales. GT4's first month sales were larger than GT3's, but as long as a game sells well enough to make it to Greatest Hits it keeps selling. GT3 was still available and still selling to that same install base GT4 launched to. And whoever was asking, GT4 Prologue was available in Europe. Blame SCEA.

[oldjadedgamer]

RandoM, what if Oldjadedgamer just said Prologue and the Prologue demo "probably" took resources away from making GT 5 or slowed development of GT 5, would that work?

He's a lost cause. Like many others have said before, the guy is always right no matter what... or he is never wrong. Take your pick.

[51|RandoM]

RandoM, what if Oldjadedgamer just said Prologue and the Prologue demo "probably" took resources away from making GT 5 or slowed development of GT 5, would that work?

On a forum like this we can pretty much append "in my opinion" to the end of anything people say without some supporting information, right?

Usually I am comfortable with doing just that. In this particular case though, ojg is dumping on Prologue for some reason and was very explicit in complaining that it was somehow significantly delaying Gran Turismo 5. I assumed---my bad---that he wouldn't go that far out on a limb without at least some information, presumably information that hadn't been presented in this thread(or anywhere else I have looked). I then asked him what that info was.

At that point he could've just said, "hey, it is just my opinion." and it would have been over with.

He didn't that though, did he?

...and to answer your question: No, we cannot assume that it probably took resources away from GT5 development. To do so we would have to know the following:

A. That prologue wasn't part of the original plan. GT3 Prologue and GT4 Prologue would seem to say otherwise.
B. That they somehow have miraculously figured out how to keep each member of a team 100% utilized throughout the life of a project. In a project like this with a large team you will have people who are "done" with their main work long before the project is complete. You either lay them off or you put them on other work... like forking a demo.

I don't know either of those two things, nor do I see much point in assuming either of them unless my agenda is to somehow make Prologue look bad for making GT5 take even longer than originally planned.

That isn't my agenda. Is it his?

[51|RandoM]

He's a lost cause. Like many others have said before, the guy is always right no matter what... or he is never wrong. Take your pick.

If by "lost cause" you mean you will never make me believe the shit you pull out of your ass daily, then I will have to agree with you: I am a lost cause for you, and happily so.

You still haven't backed up your claim in this thread with anything. You're not even man enough to say it is just your opinion. You have to continue to pretend that you've formed that opinion with some sort of data.

I am often wrong. In this case I am not wrong about you.

[Rune_74]

If by "lost cause" you mean you will never make me believe the shit you pull out of your ass daily, then I will have to agree with you: I am a lost cause for you, and happily so.

You still haven't backed up your claim in this thread with anything. You're not even man enough to say it is just your opinion. You have to continue to pretend that you've formed that opinion with some sort of data.

I am often wrong. In this case I am not wrong about you.

See the sad thing I see here is if this was done by microsoft you wuold be all over them...I brought this up before but you justified that by saying you don't have to explain yourself to me...thats cool and all but still makes you a hypacrite.

[51|RandoM]

See the sad thing I see here is if this was done by microsoft you wuold be all over them...I brought this up before but you justified that by saying you don't have to explain yourself to me...thats cool and all but still makes you a hypacrite.

All over them for what? This is the part I don't get about you guys.

You seem to think these companies are out to get you or something. "Muaahhaha, we're going to ruin Rune's day by releasing a prologue of his favorite game." Doesn't make any sense to me.

All over them for releasing a prologue? For giving fans the opportunity to get more than just a demo if they think it is worth paying for?

Let me help you: If they only released Prologue without a demo, then I would give them(Sony or Microsoft) shit for not releasing a demo. It would still be their choice, I would just point out that, in my opinion, it was a poor one.

I wouldn't decide they were the videogame anti-christ or that they were the personification of all the bad things big business is capable of.

Hey, I have an idea. Let us compare this case to cases where I have given Microsoft "shit", shall we?

In this case, we've got an often delayed game, Gran Turismo 5. The game has a free concept demo, and now it has a prologue, and even the prologue has a free demo. OJG wants to make a case for the prologue being "bad" because it is delaying the game. Ok, make the case. Go ahead, I'm waiting, and I have been waiting. Thing is, I'll wait forever because a) he doesn't have a case, and b) he is unwilling and unable to come up with one.

I have given Microsoft "shit" for RRoD. Is anybody going to tell me RRoD doesn't exist? How about that it isn't a problem? Hmm, the case against RRoD is already built.

I have given Microsoft "shit" for taxing multiplayer. Have I ever had to pay for multiplayer on any non-Microsoft platform? No. Gee, that seems pretty straight forward too. Oh wait, it can be said that Live offers quite a bit more than other console multiplayer services, can't it? Hmm, who has said that before? Oh yeah, I have said that before. Live is way ahead of PSN in terms of multiplayer functionality, something I've also said.

I have given Microsoft "shit" for releasing a SKU without a hard drive. It forces developers to target the lower end SKU and often ignore any and all benefits of the hard drive. That sucks. Anybody who owns a 360 with a hard drive really want to try to dispute that? "But Random, Sony has multiple SKUs for the PS3 and you don't give them shit for that you big hypocrite", and the obvious answer to that is of course that the differences between the SKUs don't have any effect on PS3 game development, all PS3 games work on all PS3 SKUs and none of those games had to be gimped to work on any of the SKUs.

[Rune_74]

I think you know I'm talking about the price Random.

[51|RandoM]

I think you know I'm talking about the price Random.

The price of GT5 Prologue, or the price of the PS3?

GT5 Prologue seems to offer as much or more gaming than many other full racing games, so I don't see what the pricing problem is there. Long story short, if you don't like the price then don't buy it. You will still have a free demo with which to determine whether or not GT5 is worth purchasing, right? OJG tried to say that the problem was that it significantly delayed GT5 to create Prologue... but doesn't have anything to base that opinion upon.

We've beat to death the PS3 pricing, but I'll summarize my opinion on it once again: Unfortunate, yet necessary as they were rushed to market a year earlier than they originally planned. Microsoft jumped the gun by a year and paid for it with RRoD. Sony bit the bullet and charged what was required to pay for a console with roughly equivalent horsepower to the 360 and far better reliability. Only time will tell if either or both of them made the right decision(s).

I don't know which you were referring to but hopefully one of those covers it. :)

[oldjadedgamer]

If by "lost cause" you mean you will never make me believe the shit you pull out of your ass daily, then I will have to agree with you: I am a lost cause for you, and happily so.

You still haven't backed up your claim in this thread with anything. You're not even man enough to say it is just your opinion. You have to continue to pretend that you've formed that opinion with some sort of data.

I am often wrong. In this case I am not wrong about you.

This is my digital version of a grin and nod.

[DarkDaY]

So I went to the web site, looked around, read some, etc.

I take back what I said. This is not unreasonable for a game, let alone a game made by PD.
I have seen games bloated to all hell with so much crap come out every other day and most of the extra content in these games will ever get played.

Just cause its there does not make it playable, good, or worth the value. And these games are full price.

I love.. and I mean love me some Gears Of War, and if they released a tide me over in between 1 and 2, a side story or something. I would be all over it even if it was 60. Its my money.

PD makes quality shit whether you like it or not.
I think the problem is simple, when a company like them has to live up to their own set standards, it becomes a devil in disguise..

They could charge 60 bucks and I will bet this will be better and have more value than 90 percent of the racing games on the market.

Its not my thing, but it still looks pretty fucking tasty for 40 bones. I spend that much on cabs every day. And they are not as much fun.

[Dag-Sabot]

Its not my thing, but it still looks pretty fucking tasty for 40 bones. I spend that much on cabs every day. And they are not as much fun.Try hookers.

[blackzc]

I would pay 150$ for GT5, thats how good i think it is. Actually GT4 is still doing it for me, after forza 2 got old after 1 week i went back to GT4 and haven't stopped.

[KingGorilla]

Try hookers.

Word of advice: In the US, if you see an attractive hooker; It's a cop.

[TeeCakes]

It's a tad expensive. But I guess they'll hafta pay for all the car licenses used in-game somehow.

[Dag-Sabot]

Word of advice: In the US, if you see an attractive hooker; It's a cop.
I hope you don't mind i printed it out and tucked it into my passport. Im bound to forget. I guess my point was supposd to be that the guy was comparing apples to oranges unless he budgets taxi rides as an entertainment expense.

[DarkDaY]

no. I wasnt comparing apples to oranges. Just saying that spend the money how ya want and if its short on play but all high quality, looks to me after snooping around like racing fans could do much worse.

[NightRain]

Wow, was at Futureshop today and saw a Pre-Order sign for GT5 Prologue and the price was $69.99. WTF?? Confirmed online..... they better fix that, because that is CRAZY.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10075769&catid=24302&logon=&langid=EN

Same price at Best Buy

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10075769&catid=24372

[Rune_74]

Man thats a great deal! We should be thanking them for that price we are so lucky to have the opurtunity to play anything t hey have done so far!

[Dag-Sabot]

Wow, was at Futureshop today and saw a Pre-Order sign for GT5 Prologue and the price was $69.99. WTF?? Confirmed online..... they better fix that, because that is CRAZY.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10075769&catid=24302&logon=&langid=EN

Same price at Best Buy

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10075769&catid=24372
They both claim it will be released on March 17. Maybe that's where the extra cost comes in. Time machines ain't cheap.

[DarkDaY]

lol, now that is funny. Well, obviously that is really stupid if true.
Heres a crazy thought, dont buy it and move on.

nothing lost.