Anti-Religious Music

[sleepbox]

There's so much much that is anti-Christian out there yet, I was wondering if I could be pointed in the direction of some anti-Hindu/Buddhist/Muslim/other music?

[Sazime]

Hrm, what about that band those twin girls have? Prussian Blue? They probably have all kinds of anti "anything that's not white and Christian" songs. Would that fit?

[Superman's Dead]

Why, he asked with bated breath.

[JediSanf]

There's specifically anti-Christian music out there? Or are we just talking about rock in general?

[TheEpicOfTyler]

Pulling Teeth
Ringworm

[duff himself]

there are a bunch of bands that are anti god/religion that don't single out just one type of religion. they hate everything equally which is always nice. i don't know of any that try to single out what you mentioned tho, no.

[Baron Samedi]

wr8TnC0xvS4

GSBQq-6OARc

[H2o Ninja]

I don't think theres much other anti-religious music, because most of those other religions don't piss people off like Christians do. Whens the last time you saw a Buddhist ranting about how we're all going to hell? I just think that has alot to do with it.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I don't think theres much other anti-religious music, because most of those other religions don't piss people off like Christians do. Whens the last time you saw a Buddhist ranting about how we're all going to hell? I just think that has alot to do with it.
Everyone tells you you're wrong, just so you know.

There was a Hare Krishna (sp?) who came up to me, and tried to give me
some literature on his religion. I thought it was free, and I accepted.

He then informs me that it IS NOT free, and I return it to him - I was interested, but not enough to give him cash.

I was late for class, so I told him I already had a spiritual life - He then asked "Born again?" I responded with the affirmative.

He then told me that he'd go find someone who was "less close-minded".

I have never seen anyone make a statement that ironic without seeing the irony before.

[Lord_Don]

wr8TnC0xvS4

I've never payed much attention to Tool or Perfect Circle before, a guy at work used to blare them day in and day out, over and over and I just kind of became numb to them and it all sounded the same.

I looked up the lyrics for Judith while listening to this and I may have to give them a second listen. I was mormon until I was 27 and finally took a step back so I get the passion and anger in this song. So many years wasted of a life unexamined, and now seeing it in other people, especially loved ones.

edit: Not to say that all who believe in Christianity live lives unexamined. This board in particular has examples of thoughtful christians, Flying Orc and, I shudder to say, Johan. It seems to be an unfortunate side-effect of any large belief structure, whether spiritual or secular, that you get a lot of people the follow blindly, unquestioning.

[Baron Samedi]

I don't think theres much other anti-religious music, because most of those other religions don't piss people off like Christians do. Whens the last time you saw a Buddhist ranting about how we're all going to hell? I just think that has alot to do with it.

This is why China is trying to take over Tibet and the Dalai Lama. Or maybe the Islamic force wanting to terrorize the entire world. Or maybe it's the atheist wanting to stamp out all religion.

[KingGorilla]

I guess white supremacist metal would fit the bill. That has never been my bag, I prefer death and traditional speed metal(Slayer, good Norse stuff).

[duff himself]

Well that song Judith is about how Maynard James Keenan sings about how he would willingly give up the fame and fortune that he got by being the lead singer of Tool just to bring his mother back.

That song stirred up a lot of shit when it came out but many people didn't even know the true meaning behind it.

[violentp]

I literally just walked into my house from a Manson show. He set a bible on fire. It was sacrelicious.

[Drinking_Buddy]

I guess white supremacist metal would fit the bill. That has never been my bag, I prefer death and traditional speed metal(Slayer, good Norse stuff).

White supremacist, tend to be Christian, in there own demented way.

Decide is what your looking for, they have a song called "Kill all of the Christians". I think that fits what your looking for.

I dont know anything thats exactly anti-christian, but pro-satanic.

Eletric Hellfire Club is good in that they really push the whole stataninc thing.

Understand that the whole Satanic, Anti-Christan is just a pull. 99% of them are not really anti-christan or satan worshipers, its just there thing.

Like how rappers talk about bitches and bling and being tought and all. Atlest I hope.

[Delenda]

There's so much much that is anti-Christian out there yet, I was wondering if I could be pointed in the direction of some anti-Hindu/Buddhist/Muslim/other music?

What about anti-Jewish music?

Oh wait, that's for Nazis.

(seriously though, some NSBM is actually quite good, from a purely technical standpoint)

I'd also recommend that everyone suggesting anti-christian music read the OP again :p

[Karamazov]

p_orMqKpQh8

Nobody's mentioned the Dead Kennedys yet? For shame...

[walkstheplanes]

There's so much much spyware and adware and viruses that are anti-Windows out there yet, I was wondering if I could be pointed in the direction of some anti-Mac/Linux/Ubuntu/other OS?

I literally just walked into my house from a Manson show. He set a bible on fire. It was sacrelicious.

I thought I made up that term a few years ago when 4/20 hit on Easter Sunday. In evolutionary terms, we call that convergence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convergent_evolution).

[Karamazov]

There's so much much spyware and adware and viruses that are anti-Windows out there yet, I was wondering if I could be pointed in the direction of some anti-Mac/Linux/Ubuntu/other OS?

Uh... what?

[Banacek]

There's so much much that is anti-Christian out there yet, I was wondering if I could be pointed in the direction of some anti-Hindu/Buddhist/Muslim/other music?

This is almost quotable it's so insane, unless it's for a school paper or something.

[walkstheplanes]

Uh... what?

I was comparing the large profile and large impact in the context of our society (in Christianity's case, it's true for Western Society. I'm sure you can find anti-other religions in the places where they have the greatest impact). Should have put an explanation next to that metaphor, didn't think I needed it.

[Ultima Thulian]

There's always Motorhead's "Don't Need Religion". Other than that, I guess you'll just have to rely on those shitty "metal" bands that try to be "edgy" and "satanic". Granted, I suppose satanism or whatever it is called is a religion, but atheists make up less than %3 of the world's population. Slim pickens, son.

Dead Kennedys also come to mind. Come to think of it, many early punk bands often have anti-religious undertones. Though that usually is because of religion to them is seen as an establishment/group with a rules. And that ain't good. Can't have anarchy and other such pretentious horseshit with rules.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I was comparing the large profile and large impact in the context of our society (in Christianity's case, it's true for Western Society. I'm sure you can find anti-other religions in the places where they have the greatest impact). Should have put an explanation next to that metaphor, didn't think I needed it.

Well, not Islam, as they kill you for that.

And apparently jews will nail you to a tree for challenging authority...
[spoiler]that last part was pretty freaking anti-semitic.

[Heretic Machine]

I don't think there are many people out there who are passionately anti-religion, at least not many who are talented. I mean don't get me wrong, I think exterminating religion would be awesome; the stupid shit I hear on a daily basis would be cut down by at least 30%. I bet it'd even be a boon for the economy in some round-about way. But I don't need to listen to music about that, I've pretty much explored the subject as much as it can be.

[Baron Samedi]

I don't think there are many people out there who are passionately anti-religion, at least not many who are talented. I mean don't get me wrong, I think exterminating religion would be awesome; the stupid shit I hear on a daily basis would be cut down by at least 30%. I bet it'd even be a boon for the economy in some round-about way. But I don't need to listen to music about that, I've pretty much explored the subject as much as it can be.

Did you watch that second video? And listen to it......

[Heretic Machine]

Did you watch that second video? And listen to it......

Nope, didn't watch any of them.

[Baron Samedi]

Nope, didn't watch any of them.

So you're not feigning ignorance?

[kababa]

Well, not Islam, as they kill you for that.

And apparently jews will nail you to a tree for challenging authority...
[spoiler]that last part was pretty freaking anti-semitic.

Yeah we have some really angry and sensitive people over here.

[The Iron Weasel]

Did you watch that second video? And listen to it......

What band is that, I'm having trouble hearing as its a live video.

[Sazime]

I was late for class, so I told him I already had a spiritual life - He then asked "Born again?" I responded with the affirmative.

He then told me that he'd go find someone who was "less close-minded".

I have never seen anyone make a statement that ironic without seeing the irony before.
Ha! That is pretty good. :)

[ShivaX]

Did you watch that second video? And listen to it......

Consider the singer. Maynard's father was a Reverend or something similar and his mother was also insanely religious. Obviously he had some issues with how things went. Also iirc his mother didn't die till well after the song was released, though the part about "losing his mother" is probably accurate. I only remember because when his mother did die and me and the girl I was with at the time heard her name and decided it made the song a little more pointed. He lost her to blind faith that kept her from being there for him or whatever.

In the end, who cares? He obviously didn't write the song or sing it for you. I realize its popular to jump all over Christianity, but nearly every religion is a big pile of hypocrisy. Its just not as "acceptable" to point out the inconsistencies with say Islam. Probably because, frankly, most of us don't have it shoved down our throats over here. If Islam was the big religion and they tried to thought police me to follow their way of thinking, odds are I wouldn't care much for them either.

[president_fred]

Well Wagner's music and writings are antisemitist. And before an apologist comes on here declaring that he was misunderstood read his books.

[Primus]

I don't think theres much other anti-religious music, because most of those other religions don't piss people off like Christians do. Whens the last time you saw a Buddhist ranting about how we're all going to hell? I just think that has alot to do with it.

I don't believe this.

I think it is more that the West is predominately Christian, so the shock value of being a western anti-Christian band is much greater than writing songs about killing... Buddha or Vishnu.

Also consider that in many other countries religion has a much stronger influence on day to day life and even things like government than in the west, so being against that religion wouldn't make you money or get you cool points in high school, it would just make you an outcast of that society.

I am in Afghanistan and you should see how devout some of these guys are. If you said something negative about Islam it would really anger a majority of them. A Islamic version of Slayer or Marilyn Manson just would not fly in this area of the world.

[Primus]

I literally just walked into my house from a Manson show. He set a bible on fire. It was sacrelicious.

If you're 16 and don't realize its a gimmick.

[violentp]

If you're 16 and don't realize its a gimmick.

Wow. Thanks. I was looking to Manson for direction in my life and you opened my eyes. Thanks Primus. It's a fucking rock show, not course on life. Try and enjoy yourself a little more.

[Johan]

I am in Afghanistan and you should see how devout some of these guys are. If you said something negative about Islam it would really anger a majority of them. A Islamic version of Slayer or Marilyn Manson just would not fly in this area of the world.

The average narcissistic, anti-religious, agnostic/atheistic, angst-ridden Westerner would rapidly turn into a woman's sexual organ in many such nations around the world.

Hell...look what happened with the cartoons of Muhammad and Islam! Even in the WEST, people who mock/deride/abuse Christianity refused to print them out of a cowering fear and spinelessness.

Piss on a cross? Check.
Shit on the virgin Mary? Check.
Burn a Bible? Check.

Print a cartoon of Muhammad? No chance, baby!
Burn a Quran? What are you, crazy?

Hypocritical cowards.

[Lord_Don]

Islam doesn't take lightly to anything speaking out or making light of it, as was seen by the cartoon fiasco. Can you imagine the calculated life span of a music group that decided to target them?

edit: Johan beat me to it. You can say what you want about Christianity but they won't kill you for making fun of them.

[Baron Samedi]

What band is that, I'm having trouble hearing as its a live video.

Sleepytime Gorilla Museum - The Donkey-Headed Adversary of Humanity Opens the Discussion

Consider the singer. Maynard's father was a Reverend or something similar and his mother was also insanely religious. Obviously he had some issues with how things went. Also iirc his mother didn't die till well after the song was released, though the part about "losing his mother" is probably accurate. I only remember because when his mother did die and me and the girl I was with at the time heard her name and decided it made the song a little more pointed. He lost her to blind faith that kept her from being there for him or whatever.

In the end, who cares? He obviously didn't write the song or sing it for you. I realize its popular to jump all over Christianity, but nearly every religion is a big pile of hypocrisy. Its just not as "acceptable" to point out the inconsistencies with say Islam. Probably because, frankly, most of us don't have it shoved down our throats over here. If Islam was the big religion and they tried to thought police me to follow their way of thinking, odds are I wouldn't care much for them either.

Ummm...I think you may have misunderstood me (the first video is Judith), but okay, I'll take your word for it.

[king3567]

Deicide are a pretty big anti-christian band and Vital Remains is too.
Vital Remains' lyrics actually are somewhat intelligent in their reasoning against christianity.
Their song Dechristianize is a work of art. NSBM is pretty good, IMO. Just because you listen to a band doesn't mean you must hold their same beliefs.

I DO find it funny that we live in a country with free speech, yet Satanic,atheist, and anti-christian bands are frowned upon. So I say screw religious groups altogether and form your own opinion.

[[GH-SC]Ryctor]

Johan i can play drums. If you can sing we just need a lead guitar and bass for our anti-islam rock band.

[Serapth]

Bad Religion and XTC.

Both band are anti god, not just Christian gods.

[NationalKato]

Anti-Christian music? Here's a great reference film (http://http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087277/)!

[roboninja]

The average narcissistic, anti-religious, agnostic/atheistic, angst-ridden Westerner would rapidly turn into a woman's sexual organ in many such nations around the world.

Hell...look what happened with the cartoons of Muhammad and Islam! Even in the WEST, people who mock/deride/abuse Christianity refused to print them out of a cowering fear and spinelessness.

Piss on a cross? Check.
Shit on the virgin Mary? Check.
Burn a Bible? Check.

Print a cartoon of Muhammad? No chance, baby!
Burn a Quran? What are you, crazy?

Hypocritical cowards.

I love pointing out when I agree with Johan, it is such a rare occurence ;) The whole Islamic cartoon fiasco was a pathetic display by our "free" society. Islam is at least as ridiculous as Christianity, it deserves the proper amount of derision as well.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

The whole cartoon fiasco was indeed pretty sad. I lost a lot of respect for the so-called "free press" after that.

Here, this thead needs more wholesome Christian music:

Ivt4aMTB1GI



Edit - oops, epic phail

[Baron Samedi]

I love pointing out when I agree with Johan, it is such a rare occurence ;) The whole Islamic cartoon fiasco was a pathetic display by our "free" society. Islam is at least as ridiculous as Christianity, it deserves the proper amount of derision as well.

Let's not forget those Hinduists! Fuck you Shiva!

[torrefaction]

I literally just walked into my house from a Manson show. He set a bible on fire. It was sacrelicious.

What a great goddamn show that was. I can't believe you where there, and I didn't know.

Bitch.

[king3567]

The whole cartoon fiasco was indeed pretty sad. I lost a lot of respect for the so-called "free press" after that.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into yet-another thread where people cry about how Christians are so discriminated against in America. :rolleyes:

Yeah, especially since 77% of Americans are Christian :p

[Lord_Don]

Bad Religion and XTC.

Both band are anti god, not just Christian gods.

I love me some Bad Religion.

[roboninja]

Let's not forget those Hinduists! Fuck you Shiva!

Agreed. Shiva would probably give one hell of a handjob though.

[NationalKato]

Agreed. Shiva would probably give one hell of a handjob though.

Sure, if you like getting handjobs from male dieties. Besides, as 'the Destroyer' his handjob would end by ripping your dick off.

[torrefaction]

Sure, if you like getting handjobs from male dieties. Besides, as 'the Destroyer' his handjob would end by ripping your dick off.

From the wiki:
An iconographic representation of Shiva called Ardhanarishvara shows him with one half of the body as male, and the other half as female.[148] According to Ellen Goldberg, the traditional Sanskrit name for this form, (Ardhanārīśvara) is best translated as "the lord who is half woman", and not as "half-man, half-woman".[149]

[NationalKato]

Yeah, torrefaction, that's one of his forms. Throughout the wiki, Shiva is referred to in the male tense. What, you didn't think gods changed forms when showing themselves before mortals? Pssh. That just means you like handjobs from hermaphrodites.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Yeah, especially since 77% of Americans are Christian :p

You quoted me before I could take my post in a whole new direction!

I has epic phail! :o

[Baron Samedi]

Yeah, torrefaction, that's one of his forms. Throughout the wiki, Shiva is referred to in the male tense. What, you didn't think gods changed forms when showing themselves before mortals? Pssh. That just means you like handjobs from hermaphrodites.

Does it matter? Fuck him! By which I mean, ass rape that Destroyer.

[torrefaction]

Yeah, torrefaction, that's one of his forms. Throughout the wiki, Shiva is referred to in the male tense. What, you didn't think gods changed forms when showing themselves before mortals? Pssh. That just means you like handjobs from hermaphrodites.

Yeah, I was more just backing you up than anything else.

[Tel Prydain]

Well that song Judith is about how Maynard James Keenan sings about how he would willingly give up the fame and fortune that he got by being the lead singer of Tool just to bring his mother back.

That song stirred up a lot of shit when it came out but many people didn't even know the true meaning behind it.

Yeah....
Fuck your God
Your Lord and your Christ
Sounds like he really missed his mom. :rolleyes:

[roboninja]

Yeah, torrefaction, that's one of his forms. Throughout the wiki, Shiva is referred to in the male tense. What, you didn't think gods changed forms when showing themselves before mortals? Pssh. That just means you like handjobs from hermaphrodites.

I am comfortable with that as long as the hermaphrodite is a god. Mere mortal hermaphrodites? They can fuck right off.

[Bad_Buddha]

...the shock value of being a western anti-Christian band is much greater than writing songs about killing... Buddha or Vishnu.

Thin ice dude! :cool:

[torrefaction]

Yeah....
Fuck your God
Your Lord and your Christ
Sounds like he really missed his mom. :rolleyes:

Yeah...to me it sounds like the guy your replying is confusing other songs with the entire 10,000 days album.

[Lord_Don]

I am comfortable with that as long as the hermaphrodite is a god. Mere mortal hermaphrodites? They can fuck right off.

So sigged! In addition, Handjobs from Vishnu makes an excellent band name.

[icronic]

Yeah....
Fuck your God
Your Lord and your Christ
Sounds like he really missed his mom. :rolleyes:

I'm not 100% on my facts here, but from what I understand his mom had a stroke which left her partially paralyzed. The whole thing strengthened her belief in god, which he couldn't understand. The song is supposed to be about he felt about the situation.

[Tel Prydain]

I DO find it funny that we live in a country with free speech, yet Satanic,atheist, and anti-christian bands are frowned upon. So I say screw religious groups altogether and form your own opinion.
:rolleyes: Yeah, poor guys like Marilyn Manson are pushed out of business… just for speaking his mind. That guy could have been big. :rolleyes:

Get real. Not only is okay for a group to be anti-christian, it's cool.
It’s another example of it being okay to publicly deride Christianity while other religions are taboo. One rule should apply to all.

[torrefaction]

I'm not 100% on my facts here, but from what I understand his mom had a stroke which left her partially paralyzed. The whole thing strengthened her belief in god, which he couldn't understand. The song is supposed to be about he felt about the situation.

This is pretty much correct.

[Tel Prydain]

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Moslems,
And everybody hates the Jews!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs4jY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIlJ8ZCs4jY

[torrefaction]

:rolleyes: Yeah, poor guys like Marilyn Manson are pushed out of business… just for speaking his mind. That guy could have been big. :rolleyes:

Get real. Not only is okay for a group to be anti-christian, it's cool.
It’s another example of it being okay to publicly deride Christianity while other religions are taboo. One rule should apply to all.


Wait a minute here. Because Manson's message spoke to a large amount of people doesn't mean that it was "cool". Those of us that listened to that type of music were DEFINITELY in the minority, and to some extent, social outcasts.

There are a lot of people disenfranchised by organized religion and the moralistic view our society holds, and it speaks to them. But we're still VERY MUCH in the minority, so don't try to act otherwise.

Yeah, it makes him money and he's popular with that group, but there's far more discrimination against him and people that identify with that message.

Or do you not remember the fact that he would have almost as many church protestors at his shows as fans? Because I do.

[Tel Prydain]

Wait a minute here. Because Manson's message spoke to a large amount of people doesn't mean that it was "cool". Those of us that listened to that type of music were DEFINITELY in the minority, and to some extent, social outcasts.
I'll agree that this was the case in some areas.
There are a lot of people disenfranchised by organized religion and the moralistic view our society holds, and it speaks to them. But we're still VERY MUCH in the minority, so don't try to act otherwise.
Yeah, I can see how you'd feel on the ouside - you know, with all those christian and moralistic songs in the top forty. Oh, and all those moralistic TV shows.

Please, popular music and TV has an overwhelming derision of anything Christian.

[Slack3r78]

I'll agree that this was the case in some areas.

Yeah, I can see how you'd feel on the ouside - you know, with all those christian and moralistic songs in the top forty. Oh, and all those moralistic TV shows.

Please, popular music and TV has an overwhelming derision of anything Christian.
Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)
Clearly, hating on the Baby Jesus is the mainstream hip thing to do. :rolleyes:

[Baron Samedi]

Clearly, hating on the Baby Jesus is the mainstream hip thing to do. :rolleyes:

Sweet Jesus, the minority voice must be heard - Fuck Vishnu! Fuck Shiva! Fuck that hairy Krishna monkey! We cannot be silent on this issue! Our disenfranchised voices will be heard!

[Tel Prydain]

Clearly, hating on the Baby Jesus is the mainstream hip thing to do. :rolleyes:

Don’t be retarded. These stats assume that everyone in a ‘catholic’ family are catholic. That’s clearly not the case. There is a difference between considering yourself catholic and actually believing in the catholic dogma.

That’s why some Christians use ‘born again’ to differentiate between people who are actually Christians (and believe Jesus was the son of god) from those who consider themselves part of a denomination just because that’s what their family is.

[NationalKato]

Yeah, I can see how you'd feel on the ouside - you know, with all those christian and moralistic songs in the top forty.

Hey, I had to suffer through Creed just as much as you did. Fuckin' Creed...

[Slack3r78]

Don’t be retarded. These stats assume that everyone in a ‘catholic’ family are catholic. That’s clearly not the case.

Okay then, let's assume then that the vast majority of the Catholics are just wrongly tabulated as such and most of them, in fact, spent their evenings sipping on the blood of a freshly slaughtered goat in the name of Lucifer -- Christians would still represent the vast majority in this nation.

[torrefaction]

I'll agree that this was the case in some areas.

Yeah, I can see how you'd feel on the ouside - you know, with all those christian and moralistic songs in the top forty. Oh, and all those moralistic TV shows.

Please, popular music and TV has an overwhelming derision of anything Christian.

Dude. You don't even live in the fucking US. You don't see the EIGHT churches in my neighborhood alone. "Don't be retarded".

Go look at the top forty and tell me how many of those have any sort of negative religious connotations. Reznor, Manson, and Maynard are the only artists to really ever get in those charts that have a seriously negative message against organized religion. I can't even comprehend how you can SERIOUSLY argue Christians aren't in the majority? George W. Bush? Hell...name ONE athiest President. Fuck...name ONE atheist Senate/Congress/House member. You might be able to find the name. Because there's only ONE PERSON who will admit to it.

Give me a break.

[walkstheplanes]

Dude. You don't even live in the fucking US. You don't see the EIGHT churches in my neighborhood alone. "Don't be retarded".

Go look at the top forty and tell me how many of those have any sort of negative religious connotations. Reznor, Manson, and Maynard are the only artists to really ever get in those charts that have a seriously negative message against organized religion. I can't even comprehend how you can SERIOUSLY argue Christians aren't in the majority? George W. Bush? Hell...name ONE athiest President. Fuck...name ONE atheist Senate/Congress/House member. You might be able to find the name. Because there's only ONE PERSON who will admit to it.

Give me a break.

True that. My commute is about 10 minutes and I pass by 2 or 3 churches.

[Tel Prydain]

Dude. You don't even live in the fucking US. You don't see the EIGHT churches in my neighborhood alone. "Don't be retarded".

Go look at the top forty and tell me how many of those have any sort of negative religious connotations. Reznor, Manson, and Maynard are the only artists to really ever get in those charts that have a negative religious connotation.I can't even comprehend how you can SERIOUSLY argue Christians aren't in the majority? George W. Bush? Hell...name ONE athiest President. Fuck...name ONE atheist Senate/Congress/House member. You might be able to find the name. Because there's only ONE PERSON who will admit to it.

And this is not reflected in populer cultre. Odd huh? With all those christians running about, you'd think that some of it might show up in mainstream music or on tv.....
I’m not even a Christian myself, but it’s ridiculous to try playing the underdog card when music, movies and tv are squarely on your side.

[torrefaction]

And this is not reflected in populer cultre. Odd huh? With all those christians running about, you'd think that some of it might show up in mainstream music or on tv.....
I’m not even a Christian myself, but it’s ridiculous to try playing the underdog card when music, movies and tv are squarely on your side.

You're being so ridiculous, it's not even funny.

Every teen drama is moralistic with Christian undertones. Seventh Heaven, Darwin's Creek, blah blah blah. Even the shows with a key atheist character (i.e. House) portray those views in a negative light.

A TON of Top 40 songs mention God, and most are related to love. Nearly every goddamn country song EVER mentions God (A fact that drives me insane, since I like country music, and I don't relate.)

Also, from the wiki:
Also, several mainstream music artists sometimes deal with Christian themes in their work, such as Bob Dylan, Creed, Lifehouse, The Fray, and U2, but fall outside of the CCM genre though they may receive airplay on CCM radio stations.[3]

Contemporary Christian music has been a topic of controversy in various ways since its beginnings in the 1960s.[3] Some conservative Christians feel that the medium of popular music is unholy, and thus unfit for Christian participation. For example, the Christian college Bob Jones University prohibits its dormitory students from listening to CCM.[4] Other noted Christian critics of CCM include Dan Lucarini (the author of the book Why I Left the Contemporary Christian Music Movement) and Kimberly Smith (author of the books Oh Be Careful Little Ears and Let Those Who Have Ears to Hear). Also, some simply find the concept of Christian pop/rock music to be an unusual phenomenon, since rock music has historically been associated with themes such as sexual promiscuity, rebellion, drug and alcohol use, and other topics normally considered antithetical to the teachings of Christianity.[3] Perhaps the most well-known (and humorous) defense to this criticism is a quote from a 19th century Methodist minister Rowland Hill: "Why should the devil have all the good music?".

There's a Christian radio station everywhere. Also, they aren't on the same charts.

The industry is represented in Billboard Magazine's "Top Christian Albums" and "Hot Christian Songs" charts,[1] and by Radio & Records magazine's Christian AC (Adult Contemporary), Christian CHR (Contemporary Hit Radio), Christian Rock, and Inspirational (INSPO) airplay charts,[2] as well as the iTunes Store's "Christian & Gospel" genre.

Get a clue. You don't even live in this country, and you're trying to tell me that Christianity isn't the majority, despite every statistic telling you otherwise. CHRISTIANS ARE NOT THE UNDERDOG.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

And this is not reflected in populer cultre. Odd huh? With all those christians running about, you'd think that some of it might show up in mainstream music or on tv.....
I’m not even a Christian myself, but it’s ridiculous to try playing the underdog card when music, movies and tv are squarely on your side.

You really are spouting bullshit though. Mainstream American culture is filled with Christianity. You can argue how much of it is real, but it is definitely there in a big way.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

There's always Motorhead's "Don't Need Religion". Other than that, I guess you'll just have to rely on those shitty "metal" bands that try to be "edgy" and "satanic". Granted, I suppose satanism or whatever it is called is a religion, but atheists make up less than %3 of the world's population. Slim pickens, son.

What about bands that encourage free thought?

[Baron Samedi]

You really are spouting bullshit though. Mainstream American culture is filled with Christianity. You can argue how much of it is real, but it is definitely there in a big way.

Your mom is filled with Christian - my Christian. :cool:

[Tel Prydain]

You're being so ridiculous, it's not even funny.

Every teen drama is moralistic with Christian undertones. Seventh Heaven, Darwin's Creek, blah blah blah. Even the shows with a key atheist character (i.e. House) portray those views in a negative light.

And here is where I must agree to simply disagree. I’d give you Seventh Heven (blagh!), Touched by an Angel and (to a lesser extent) Joan of Arcadia. But, in House (and CSI, and Boston Legal, and all the rest) Christians are constantly portrayed as backwards, close-minded, homophobic, control freaks – who must eventually open up and learn to become better people with the help of the wise atheists.

Having said that, it’s true that I am falling into the ultimate foreigner cliché by judging the country by it's music/movies/TV/message-boards.

[Slack3r78]

And here is where I must agree to simply disagree. I’d give you Seventh Heven (blagh!), Touched by an Angel and (to a lesser extent) Joan of Arcadia. But, in House (and CSI, and Boston Legal, and all the rest) Christians are constantly portrayed as backwards, close-minded, homophobic, control freaks – who must eventually open up and learn to become better people with the help of the wise atheists.
Yep, Americans have a clear and measurable (http://scientech.blogspot.com/2006/03/new-study-declares-atheists-most.html) aversion to anything Christian.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Your mom is filled with Christian - my Christian. :cool:

Actually I'm pretty sure she is filled with her husband's Christian.



Ewww.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Christians are constantly portrayed as backwards, close-minded, homophobic, control freaks – who must eventually open up and learn to become better people with the help of the wise atheists.



That's just reality though. To portray the world otherwise would present a falsehood. :p

[Tel Prydain]

That's just reality though. To portray the world otherwise would present a falsehood. :p

:p .

[Johan]

American media is ruled by popular culture and Hollywood. Popular culture and Hollywood are extremely antagonistic toward Christians, Christian morals, and religion in general (particularly Christianity, however). If you think otherwise, you're high.

Politics is another matter. Politicians seem to fall all over themselves to tout their religious cred...which makes it quite difficult for people who care about that to tell who is full of shit, and who isn't.

[Ultima Thulian]

I just assume everyone is full of shit, including myself, until proven otherwise. Guilty until proven innocent!

[Baron Samedi]

I just assume everyone is full of shit, including myself, until proven otherwise. Guilty until proven innocent!

You're shitin' me! :p

[Tel Prydain]

American media is ruled by popular culture and Hollywood. Popular culture and Hollywood are extremely antagonistic toward Christians, Christian morals, and religion in general (particularly Christianity, however). If you think otherwise, you're high.

Thankyou! That's what I was trying to say.

Took your sweet-ass time, Johan. Ya left the non-American deist flapping out there in the wind. :p
The horror of being verbally savaged by torrefaction. The horror!!

[Slack3r78]

American media is ruled by popular culture and Hollywood. Popular culture and Hollywood are extremely antagonistic toward Christians, Christian morals, and religion in general (particularly Christianity, however). If you think otherwise, you're high.

Eh, pop culture is driven by vapidity as much as anything. Current Top 10 (http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=The+Billboard+Hot+100) on the Billboard charts. The fact that T-Pain has not one but two singles in the top five is all the evidence I need:

rTK0kFXJjd0

[Banacek]

My vision of hell is arguing with other people over religion.

[NationalKato]

Popular culture and Hollywood are extremely antagonistic toward Christians...

Until you Christians start producing culture and media worth a damn, I'll take my godless entertainment.

[Johan]

My vision of hell is arguing with other people over religion.

Welcome! There's plenty of room! :D

Until you Christians start producing culture and media worth a damn, I'll take my godless entertainment.

When "worth a damn" means Saw, Hostel, and Debbie does Dallas for the Fiftieth Time, you'll be waiting a while for anything "worth a damn" from Christians! :D

[cp#]

The D. Hail Satan!

[NationalKato]

...and Debbie does Dallas for the Fiftieth Time,

Wait, there were 49 sequels to that classic? Time to hit the showers Mr. Hardwick, indeed!

[Johan]

cWKqhQAiJLI

ZNYw_lWwwA8

[Slack3r78]

cWKqhQAiJLI

ZNYw_lWwwA8

I'MA GONNA BUY YOU A DRAAAAAAAAANK

[Tel Prydain]

cWKqhQAiJLI

ZNYw_lWwwA8

I.... WHY would you do that to us? Why do you hate us so....



aIlJ8ZCs4jY

[Johan]

I'MA GONNA BUY YOU A DRAAAAAAAAANK

That was VERY funny. I had a passing thought to play it in my classes (I'm home today), but then thought better of it! ;)

BTW: Why do y'all need to quote the actual video as well? Trying to multiply people's agony? :D

[Slack3r78]

hdJJqFsF9CM
NO HOMO

[torrefaction]

American media is ruled by popular culture and Hollywood. Popular culture and Hollywood are extremely antagonistic toward Christians, Christian morals, and religion in general (particularly Christianity, however). If you think otherwise, you're high.

Politics is another matter. Politicians seem to fall all over themselves to tout their religious cred...which makes it quite difficult for people who care about that to tell who is full of shit, and who isn't.

But if conservative christians boycott the industry, how can we expect to see anything? I don't think religion is in any way related to artistic talent (apparently some in the thread disagree, but let's ignore them for the purpose of civility.)

Also, to act like there's some barrier of Christianity that keeps it out of music ignores country music altogether. Country is wildly popular, and many of the songs on the radio definitely speak of religion. Kenny Chesney, Toby Keith, Tim McGraw, Faith Hill...they all have a ton of heavily religious songs.

I'll accept that there's antagonism from Hollywood to Christianity though. I mean, given the secular and liberal nature of the industry, it shouldn't come across as surprising. But how do you beat that if Christians boycott the industry?

Also, it's inarguable that Christians are heavily in the majority here, regardless of how the media may get portrayed.

[Johan]

But if conservative christians boycott the industry, how can we expect to see anything?

I'm not for a boycott. I pick and choose, like everyone else. Some I like, some I tolerate, some I avoid like the plague. The freedom to do that makes America, and the West, a great place to be! :)

Also, to act like there's some barrier of Christianity that keeps it out of music ignores country music altogether.

Country music trends toward more conservative values, and more religious themes, that's true.

Also, it's inarguable that Christians are heavily in the majority here, regardless of how the media may get portrayed.

Cultural Christians, sure. How many that are actively involved in their faith and actively believe? I'd say that's a distinct minority.

[torrefaction]

Cultural Christians, sure. How many that are actively involved in their faith and actively believe? I'd say that's a distinct minority.

I'd say that's pretty unfair to most of the Christians. Actively involved in their faith? Well, there's certainly churches to spare.

And even those not actively involved probably DO actively believe. Also, in regards to pop culture, I've seen a pretty big trend among friends as I've grown up.

Church->Rebellion->Atheism->Church!

A lot of them were surprising. I doubt this would be a shocker to you, but my circle of friends were significantly more anti-organized religion than most people I knew. I can count more than a few of them as renewed believers.

[IrishWhiskey]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but it certainly fits the OP's request to a T.


46uLbYDif2A

[Serapth]

Creed, Live, PoD, U2... there is a fairbit of christianity in mainstream non country music aswell. Not my fault its all shit.

[IrishWhiskey]

Creed, Live, PoD, U2... there is a fairbit of christianity in mainstream non country music aswell. Not my fault its all shit.Yeah but c'mon, thats just a tiny minority compared to all the Muslim, Jewish, Atheist and other such religiously-focused bands, movies, books and TV shows. Like...
...
...
...uh, Madonna?

[Johan]

I'd say that's pretty unfair to most of the Christians.

We disagree.

[Serapth]

p_orMqKpQh8

Nobody's mentioned the Dead Kennedys yet? For shame...

DK arent anti religion, they were anti-religous right ( and anti establishment in general ).

[Tel Prydain]

Creed, Live, PoD, U2... there is a fairbit of christianity in mainstream non country music aswell. Not my fault its all shit.
Well, first cross Live off the list. They follow a mixture of Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism (http://www.shootinglive.com/SOYBOARD/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=LiveForum&Number=284843&Searchpage=1&Main=284843&Words=christian&topic=&Search=true#Post284843).
"I pray and I meditate, Kowalczyk continued, when asked about his own beliefs and/or practices. For the last 8 to 10 years, I've had a regular, spiritual daily practice, but I change it around all the time. I'm not one to say it has been this way or that way. I seek the truth and understanding with an open mind, anyway which it is revealed for me."
So they are off the list as they are not specifically christian (and infact so christians would consider them 'new age').

I'll give you PoD. Although it's worth considering that many Christian bookstores won't carry them. For what it's worth, I actually like PoD.

U2? Bono is a Christian, and anyone who thinks otherwise only needs to read a few reviews. But while their early music (the good stuff, ironically) had lots of christian stuff, that's not true of the newer (shitty pop) stuff.

Creed is like U2 in reverse.... from what I recall only two of the band members were christian, but their thoughts came out in the music.

[Khash]

http://www.epitaph.com/dispatch/_depot/title/c91f3a5e652622cc60da19359472d262.jpg

[The Iron Weasel]

Deicide are a pretty big anti-christian band and Vital Remains is too.
Vital Remains' lyrics actually are somewhat intelligent in their reasoning against christianity.
Their song Dechristianize is a work of art. NSBM is pretty good, IMO. Just because you listen to a band doesn't mean you must hold their same beliefs.

I DO find it funny that we live in a country with free speech, yet Satanic,atheist, and anti-christian bands are frowned upon. So I say screw religious groups altogether and form your own opinion.

Deicide and Vital Remains are some really, really great bands.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Eh, pop culture is driven by vapidity as much as anything. Current Top 10 (http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/chart_display.jsp?g=Singles&f=The+Billboard+Hot+100) on the Billboard charts. The fact that T-Pain has not one but two singles in the top five is all the evidence I need:

rTK0kFXJjd0

Wow, that guy is cute, and funny as well.

Now I have something new to watch on Youtube. Thanks you Slacker! :p

[sleepbox]

Thanks for the replies, all. Though...as I figured, this would turn into a Christian vs. non-Christian contest.

I got a few unique replies I've not heard to this question so it was not a wash.

I am a Christian btw.

[duff himself]

Yeah....
Fuck your God
Your Lord and your Christ
Sounds like he really missed his mom. :rolleyes:

The song is about Judith who was a character in the bible. Judith was enlightened/possessed by god, to betray a general whos armies soon fell to gods armies. Its from that generals point of view, telling judith about her blind faith.

He is asking Judith if there is so much suffering, why do you still believe in a God?

Yeah...to me it sounds like the guy your replying is confusing other songs with the entire 10,000 days album.

I didn't confuse anything. Maynard says on the dvd commentary that this song is inspired by his mother and her struggle with her health. She continued to hold to her faith in Christ even as she became weaker and passed on. In his opinion, those that came to visit her were hypocrites because their words were empty.

He's challenging Evangelical Christianity's conception of a God who loves us yet would allow us to suffer and offer no recourse.

[Amalor]

Wow this is really interesting, I never realized there was so much anti-Christian music and so many other people get off scott free. Someone really needs to kick the music industry in gear. I don't know about you guys but when I look really deep down into my heart I find that really I hate pretty much everyone no matter what race or religion they are.

[Slack3r78]

Wow, that guy is cute, and funny as well.

Now I have something new to watch on Youtube. Thanks you Slacker! :p

Cute with Chris is freaking hilarious. The T-Pain stuff is definitely among his 'best of' material, though. Glad to be of assistance. :p

[Tel Prydain]

He's challenging Evangelical Christianity's conception of a God who loves us yet would allow us to suffer and offer no recourse.

That assumes that there is no personal benefit or spiritual growth that can occur from suffering.

[Banacek]

That assumes that there is no personal benefit or spiritual growth that can occur from suffering.

If a god willing decides that the best way for someone to grow is for them to suffer then he isn't a god worth worshiping.

[mr. murphy]

If a god willing decides that the best way for someone to grow is for them to suffer then he isn't a god worth worshiping.

You've never tried to help a friend and then realized all your advice won't matter until he fucks it up for himself?

Sometimes suffering is the only way. That's life.

[Banacek]

You've never tried to help a friend and then realized all your advice won't matter until he fucks it up for himself?

Sometimes suffering is the only way. That's life.

Hey, I agree totally. But we're talking about GOD here. If he is truly omnipotent he easily could of thought of another way. If he resorts to suffering then he is either lazy or cruel. Either reason demands that you do not worship him.

[Johan]

Either reason demands that you do not worship him.

I thought he didn't exist. :confused:

In which case, something is off here...

[Banacek]

I thought he didn't exist. :confused:

In which case, something is off here...

My statement is posed for people who do believe in God. I personally do not.

I understand and respect the idea that others might choose to believe. I believe that our country was founded on the right of individuals to believe whatever helps them go through life (even Scientologists and Mormons). I do not support any notion that this country was based on Christian principles and thus those principles should be forced on everyone.

The creation vs. evolution argument is easily solved. Creationists should boycott medical treatments that were discovered by any means associated with evolution. Put their money were their mouth is :)

[Johan]

Creationists should boycott medical treatments that were discovered by any means associated with evolution.

I'll be sure to avoid medical treatments that started out as simple organisms and evolved into complex pills, surgical instruments, million-dollar medical equipment, and hypodermic needles.

[Banacek]

I'll be sure to avoid medical treatments that started out as simple organisms and evolved into complex pills, surgical instruments, million-dollar medical equipment, and hypodermic needles.

You're being dense and you know it.

[Baron Samedi]

Fucking Praise & Worship - fuck that shit. That shit's anti-fucking-religious. The past two decades of Christian music has been terrible because of the sentimental, orgasmic horseshit that involves three chords and repeating the same three sentences over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

[Banacek]

Fucking Praise & Worship - fuck that shit. That shit's anti-fucking-religious. The past two decades of Christian music has been terrible because of the sentimental, orgasmic horseshit that involves three chords and repeating the same three sentences over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

Are you talking about punk music? :p

[Johan]

You're being dense and you know it.

I evolved that way. It's not my fault.

[Baron Samedi]

Are you talking about punk music? :p

Comparing it to emo is doing it a favor. The best thing is going to a service and watching all these people get off, hands raised, while singing. It's better than XBL!

[Johan]

over and over...

I'm not sure I get your point...;)

Actually, it's a complaint many have of music in general...repetitiveness.

[Banacek]

Comparing it to emo is doing it a favor. The best thing is going to a service and watching all these people get off, hands raised, while singing. It's better than XBL!

Maybe they really enjoy it? I mean, if you really believe in a God, and you had made a personal connection with Him, you'd probably be happy too.

[Baron Samedi]

I'm not sure I get your point...;)

Actually, it's a complaint many have of music in general...repetitiveness.

It's a complaint many have of life in general....repetitiveness.

[Ultima Thulian]

Fucking Praise & Worship - fuck that shit. That shit's anti-fucking-religious. The past two decades of Christian music has been terrible because of the sentimental, orgasmic horseshit that involves three chords and repeating the same three sentences over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...

As a former Christian, I know all too well what this man speaks of. Even then, I couldn't take the music.

I'll stick with "satan's music." He may be an asshole, but sorry Jesus, your music sucks.

[Johan]

As a former Christian...

Reformed theologians who hold to the concepts of TULIP (Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, Perseverance of the saints) would say that there are no former Christians.

Perseverance, baby! Get back on the wagon, ya heathen! ;) You know you wanna (irresistible grace)!

[Ultima Thulian]

Reformed theologians who hold to the concepts of TULIP (Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, Perseverance of the saints) would say that there are no former Christians.

Perseverance, baby! Get back on the wagon, ya heathen! ;) You know you wanna (irresistible grace)!

I'm not gonna lie, I'm not familiar with the concept of TULIP...this was the first I've heard of it.

But I most say no, good sir. I don't think I'll be heading back down that particular road anytime soon. Besides, I grow weary of omnipotent beings who can't balance a fucking checkbook! They are always needing money! :D

[torrefaction]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm not familiar with the concept of TULIP...this was the first I've heard of it.

But I most say no, good sir. I don't think I'll be heading back down that particular road anytime soon. Besides, I grow weary of omnipotent beings who can't balance a fucking checkbook! They are always needing money! :D

I was taught this early on. That once you're saved, there's no going back.

But then I was also told blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin. I don't know how to collate the two.

[Ultima Thulian]

I was taught this early on. That once you're saved, there's no going back.

But then I was also told blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin. I don't know how to collate the two.

Yea, I went to a Pennacostal (sp?) church. They can be...yea.

But from what I've learned from the Bible, assuming the Bible is the ultimate authority, that you can fall from grace, and require repetence. So can't really understand how someone can say "Once you're saved, it's forever."

But hey, I hope they're right. Means I can do whatever the fuck I want without consequence now! Now I can snort coke of a hookers ass in the name a Jesus! And still get thru the pearly gates. High-Five! :D

[torrefaction]

Yea, I went to a Pennacostal (sp?) church. They can be...yea.

But from what I've learned from the Bible, assuming the Bible is the ultimate authority, that you can fall from grace, and require repetence. So can't really understand how someone can say "Once you're saved, it's forever."

But hey, I hope they're right. Means I can do whatever the fuck I want without consequence now! Now I can snort coke of a hookers ass in the name a Jesus! And still get thru the pearly gates. High-Five! :D

Coke of a hooker's ass? Is this some sort of new manufacturing technique.

*Edit*

Calvinism is where this comes from. Apparently apostasy can be considered proof that you weren't "truly saved". Although the church I went to taught what is apparently called "Free Grace", which is eternal forgiveness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism#Sovereign_grace

[Johan]

I was taught this early on. That once you're saved, there's no going back.

That makes it sound like a plane, plummeting to earth!

It's not a matter of "no going back" as much as "you wouldn't want to if you were truly a Christian before." That's the theological underpinning...not meant as a judgment.

But then I was also told blasphemy is the only unforgivable sin. I don't know how to collate the two.

My understanding was resisting/grieving God's Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin....fwiw.

[torrefaction]

My understanding was resisting/grieving God's Holy Spirit is the unpardonable sin....fwiw.

I did some reading after your response, and apparently the interpretation I was taught is very likely a misinterpretation.

I mean, not that I'm itching to go back to Christianity, but it's always nice to have a better understanding of anything, so thanks.

[IrishWhiskey]

Reformed theologians who hold to the concepts of TULIP (Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, Perseverance of the saints) would say that there are no former Christians.

Perseverance, baby! Get back on the wagon, ya heathen! ;) You know you wanna (irresistible grace)!You know, I definately recall you going on an epic rant against Islam once, for its arrogance in suggesting that there is no such thing as a non-Muslim or former-Muslim, just Muslims that had strayed from the path. I mean you had really harsh words for them, and talked about how such dangerous beliefs fed into the violent jihadist agenda. Just sayin.

Anyway, back to how much Creed sucks.

[Johan]

You know, I definately recall you going on an epic rant against Islam once, for its arrogance in suggesting that there is no such thing as a non-Muslim or former-Muslim, just Muslims that had strayed from the path. I mean you had really harsh words for them, and talked about how such dangerous beliefs fed into the violent jihadist agenda. Just sayin.

Totally different. In that context, the individual had stated that "EVERYONE" is Muslim, and if you are not living as a Muslim now, and then become one, you have actually "REVERTED." This is part and parcel of Muslim fundamentalist theology (fundamentalist...not all). The entire global population is Muslim, but just isn't living that way and isn't living under its rule.

The CAPS and "-----" are to designate actual words from that ridiculous post about "reverting" to being a Muslim. It was one of the most idiotic things I have ever read here, and that's saying a lot.

I state NO such thing as you put it...nor does anyone in Christianity that I know of. Nobody is born a Christian. Everyone is not a Christian. People don't "REVERT" to Christianity if they become a Christian.

If you become a Christian, God has helped you to bridge the gap between yourself and a relationship with Him through faith in Jesus. That's my belief. Once you are a Christian, it is also my belief that you cannot...you WILL not...be given up on and lost. You are saved, once and always. You're not "reverting" to what everyone is. There isn't a little Christian inside of everyone waiting to be let out...nor do I think everyone will become one.

Now...if you'd like to mischaracterize anything else, please feel free.

Also...I don't like you.

[Banacek]

Totally different. In that context, the individual had stated that "EVERYONE" is Muslim, and if you are not living as a Muslim now, and then become one, you have actually "REVERTED." This is part and parcel of Muslim fundamentalist theology (fundamentalist...not all). The entire global population is Muslim, but just isn't living that way and isn't living under its rule.

The CAPS and "-----" are to designate actual words from that post.

I state NO such thing...nor does anyone in Christianity that I know of. Nobody is born a Christian. Everyone is not a Christian. People don't "REVERT" to Christianity if they become a Christian.

If you become a Christian, God has helped you to bridge the gap between yourself and a relationship with Him through faith in Jesus. That's my belief. Once you are a Christian, it is also my belief that you cannot...you WILL not...be given up on and lost. You are saved, once and always.

Now...if you'd like to mischaracterize anything else, please feel free.

Also...I don't like you.

Yeah, because baptism at birth is so much different.

[Johan]

Yeah, because baptism at birth is so much different.

I've edited that post a little, first of all.

Second, baptism at birth is, for mainstream denominations, the equivalent of blessing a baby with a prayer (there are a few exceptions). It's the equivalent of saying, "Lord, I'd like to dedicate my child to you, and pray you will work to draw him/her to you as he/she ages."

Most denominations also believe that there is an age of accountability before which, if you die, your sins are not held against you. An infant does not go to hell, in other words.

Any other mischaracterizations? I actually find discussing this interesting, but I honestly think there are just too many people (I don't know if this applies to you, Banacek) that just want to mock and argue over it. I'm good with that, too, I guess! :D

[Johan]

Also, some denominations only baptize adult believers after a confession/statement of faith. That's more my belief theologically. I don't believe baptism is in any way magical or necessary for salvation, except as a command to be followed after becoming a Christian...

[IrishWhiskey]

Also...I don't like you.I had noticed. You like to troll (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42202) and waste people's time (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42968&page=11), even as an alt (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43148&page=5), to pretend to engage in arguments only for the sake of infuriating others, to respond to civil questions with personal attacks and launching into vicious tirades against those who don't share your interpretation of religious beliefs, and to use way too many smiley faces, but you don't like me.

I think I can live with that.

Also:
"No, everyone is born Christian. Only later in life do people choose to stray from Jesus and worship satan instead. Atheists have the greatest "cover" of all, they insist they believe in no god yet most polls done and the latest research indicates that they are actually a different sect of Muslims."I think there's at least one person who disagrees.

[Johan]

to respond to civil questions with personal attacks and launching into vicious tirades

As I said, I do not like you. You are a charlatan and you twist people's words, regardless of whose they are, to fit your slant and twisted view on life.

In fact, you are a very unlikable person. I'm at peace with the reality that there are assholes in the world, however. It's okay. Yours is the worst "voice" to me on the boards here, in fact. You disgust me. What you did with your mischaracterization of the discussion of "reversion/reverting" is one of many such cases where you see what you want to see, and your "reality" is a mirage of lies, illiteracy, distortions, and ramblings.

I think there's at least one person who disagrees.

Just one? Awwww...too bad.

[BlackMako85]

"No, everyone is born Christian. Only later in life do people choose to stray from Jesus and worship satan instead. Atheists have the greatest "cover" of all, they insist they believe in no god yet most polls done and the latest research indicates that they are actually a different sect of Muslims."

Where did this come from?

[Banacek]

I've edited that post a little, first of all.

Second, baptism at birth is, for mainstream denominations, the equivalent of blessing a baby with a prayer. It's the equivalent of saying, "Lord, I'd like to dedicate my child to you, and pray you will work to draw him/her to you as he/she ages."

Most denominations also believe that there is an age of accountability before which, if you die, your sins are not held against you. An infant does not go to hell, in other words.

Any other mischaracterizations? I actually find discussing this interesting, but I honestly think there are just too many people (I don't know if this applies to you, Banacek) that just want to mock and argue over it. I'm good with that, too, I guess! :D

I don't want to mock religion. I come from a family that is very religious, half Catholic, the born-agains. You should see the arguments they have, i's insane. Anyway, you can't say that all denominations believe it's just a blessing, because Catholics and Eastern Orthodox believe it is much more than that. Which is why I never supported those beliefs. I would think that someone would have to have the cognizance of what they are doing for it to have any meaning. I mean, since I was raised Catholic, all I have to do on my death bed is confess my sins and receive my lasts rights and I'm in Heaven. That seems shallow to me.

On the other hand, Protestants have broken into so many sub-denominations that it's gotten to the point of lunacy. The judgmental attitude that is prevalent with the louder spoken members is very off-putting. "Judge not, that ye be not judged." Matt. 7:1 I think John Cleese said it best, "Jesus came and told us these wonderful things, then we spent 2,000 years killing each other over how he said it."

It's also upsetting that most of the entire Christian religion still uses the same canon decided by Romans almost two centuries ago. The writings of Paul show that he was a bigot and misogynist, and counter the "The meek shall inherit the earth" type teachings of Jesus.

Anyway, my thoughts. Not that they matter.

[IrishWhiskey]

As I said, I do not like you. You are a charlatan and you twist people's words, regardless of whose they are, to fit your slant and twisted view on life.
...
I'll be sure to avoid medical treatments that started out as simple organisms and evolved into complex pills, surgical instruments, million-dollar medical equipment, and hypodermic needles.
You're being dense and you know it.
...
I think there's at least one person who disagrees.
Just one? Awwww...too bad.
....

....okay then.

[Johan]

Where did this come from?

It's a circulated "fundamentalist" stereotype of what Christian-bashers like Irish try to tout as the view of evangelicals. Google the entire quote and you'll see it posted in a bunch of places.

It's an idiot rambling of nothingness with no theological basis and no connection to the Bible or faith of any sort. The kind of thing IrishWhiskey does....obfuscate and trash the religion and God he supposedly loves and follows.

Why anyone would behave like that is beyond me.

....okay then.

Tell us how much you love Jesus, Irish. Do you love the Lord enough that you have to continue to post the kind of ridiculous quote you just posted from nobody?

Why not bring out some Scripture to rant against? Verses?

BTW: YOU are the one who opened this little "conversation" with your LIES. You're a trip.

[IrishWhiskey]

It's a circulated "fundamentalist" stereotype of what Christian-bashers like Irish try to tout as the view of evangelicals.

It's an idiot rambling of nothingness with no theological basis and no connection to the Bible or faith of any sort. The kind of thing IrishWhiskey does....obfuscate and trash the religion and God he supposedly loves and follows.

Why anyone would behave like that is beyond me.You troll. You intentional troll just to piss people off. You admit to it. You constantly denigrate the faiths of anyone you disagree with. There's a saying about throwing stones in glass houses.

Anyway. Despite Johan's psychosis, I am a Christian, and was bringing it to point out that there are always fringe groups in each faith, and that his criticism of Islam seemed unfair. The chances of this making an impact on him are pretty much zero though.

Tell us how much you love Jesus, Irish. Do you love the Lord enough that you have to continue to post the kind of ridiculous quote you just posted from nobody?

Why not bring out some Scripture to rant against? Verses?You are a terrible person. You denigrate Christianity when you claim to represent it. And you do it solely because you enjoy conflict and hurting others. I feel sorry for you.

[Johan]

...his criticism of Islam seemed unfair

Once again, you incredible LIAR, what was said in that post was that ALL PEOPLE ARE MUSLIMS but aren't necessarily living as Muslims, and when they DO become Muslims, they are...

REVERTING

to Islam.

In other words, that individual's theology was/is that EVERYONE is Muslim, even if they aren't living as Muslims.

That is NUTS.

That is also not my belief of Christianity.

I also don't believe that "Christians" directly lie about the words of others as you have.

You are a detestable, evil little boy. YOU began this attack upon me with lies and mischaracterizations of my words. YOU are the troll.

YOU are a liar.

[IrishWhiskey]

Once again, you incredible LIAR, what was said in that post was that ALL PEOPLE ARE MUSLIMS but aren't necessarily living as Muslims, and when they DO become Muslims, they are...

REVERTING

to Islam.

In other words, that individual's theology was/is that EVERYONE is Muslim, even if they aren't living as Muslims.

That is NUTS.

That is also not my belief of Christianity.

I also don't believe that "Christians" directly lie about the words of others as you have.

You are a detestable, evil little boy. YOU began this attack upon me with lies and mischaracterizations of my words. YOU are the troll.

YOU are a liar.Charming. Lets recap.

I state NO such thing as you put it...nor does anyone in Christianity that I know of. Nobody is born a Christian. Everyone is not a Christian. People don't "REVERT" to Christianity if they become a Christian.I think there's at least one person who disagrees.You said no one thinks that (that you know of anyway), I pointed out one person who thinks that (or close enough), you said I was denigrating all of Christianity.

And you say I'm the one lying and twisting words.

[deathfan]

I know I am waayyyy late but didn't have time to read the whole thread. So forgive me if I'm going over something that's already been mentioned. But if you like Judith for the message in the lyrics then have a listen to the tool song Disgustipated. I won't say anything about it. Just listen to it.


I've never payed much attention to Tool or Perfect Circle before, a guy at work used to blare them day in and day out, over and over and I just kind of became numb to them and it all sounded the same.

I looked up the lyrics for Judith while listening to this and I may have to give them a second listen. I was mormon until I was 27 and finally took a step back so I get the passion and anger in this song. So many years wasted of a life unexamined, and now seeing it in other people, especially loved ones.

edit: Not to say that all who believe in Christianity live lives unexamined. This board in particular has examples of thoughtful christians, Flying Orc and, I shudder to say, Johan. It seems to be an unfortunate side-effect of any large belief structure, whether spiritual or secular, that you get a lot of people the follow blindly, unquestioning.

[deathfan]

PS, stop fighting. The children are crying.

[Johan]

PS, stop fighting. The children are crying.

Kids gotta grow up some time! :D

Sorry, children. I apologize.

Charming. Lets recap.
You said no one thinks that

No, I didn't, you ignorant, lying, illiterate little fool. I never said "no one thinks that." Read the damn quote. It's RIGHT THERE in your post!

I state NO such thing as you put it...nor does anyone in Christianity that I know of. Nobody is born a Christian. Everyone is not a Christian. People don't "REVERT" to Christianity if they become a Christian.

"THAT I KNOW OF." I know of NOBODY within Christianity who says that ALL people are Christians and are just waiting for the time to "revert" to faith. That's absolute idiocy. You can post all the quotes from others that you like, but it changes not a thing as to the reality that, in my life, there is nobody who claims to be a Christian that says EVERYONE is a Christian or is going to become one. That's unitarianism or some such nonsense. Random Internet forum posts do NOT change that reality.

...I pointed out one person who thinks that (or close enough anyway), you said I was denigrating all of Christianity.

You ARE denigrating Christianity when you post a ridiculous comment from who-the-hell-knows-who random idiot on the Internet who is probably posting to intentionally SMEAR Christians by making ridiculous statements that supposed Christians like yourself then replicate around the web, you fool! Google the damn quote! It's been spread all over the place to smear the faith. You've contributed to that, as well.

And you say I'm the one lying and twisting words.

Yes, I do. Because you are lying, twisting words, misrepresenting the religion you supposedly adhere to and love, and generally being a dick!

Oh...and I don't like you. At all. You're the only person on here that I can truly say that of, too. That's interesting.

[IrishWhiskey]

No, I didn't, you ignorant, lying, illiterate little fool. I never said "no one thinks that." Read the damn quote. It's RIGHT THERE in your post!

"THAT I KNOW OF."
You said no one thinks that (that you know of anyway)I wish I could be surprised by this, but I'm really not. Do you think people can't read or something?


You know, I don't see any point for this to go on. At least in this thread anyway, but I'm sure it'll happen again. But I might as well point out something:

You aren't attacking me for saying anything factually wrong there (except that previous bit of insanity). My point was that it seemed unfair to apply that standard to Islam when there are fringe members of every religion. I stated that there at least one person who claims to be Christian and has that interpretation, and backed it up with a quote.

You didn't say it was fake, you didn't say no-one thought that way, you didn't acknowledge that of course there are always a few oddballs, or anything like that.

Instead you attacked and denigrated me and my faith, because I disagreed with you and tried to criticize your argument: You ARE denigrating Christianity when you post a ridiculous comment from who-the-hell-knows-who random idiot on the Internet who is probably posting to intentionally SMEAR Christians by making ridiculous statements that supposed Christians like yourself then replicate around the web, you fool! Google the damn quote! It's been spread all over the place to smear the faith. You've contributed to that, as well.

Yes, I do. Because you are lying, twisting words, misrepresenting the religion you supposedly adhere to and love, and generally being a dick!There's nothing you are factually disagreeing with, you just trash me and tell me I'm a bad person and don't have faith just for making the argument.


That's just really sad.

[Johan]

You aren't attacking me for saying anything factually wrong there

Yes I am, in fact, saying you are a liar. Again.

You stated that:

You said no one thinks that

I never said that. I said:

I state NO such thing as you put it...nor does anyone in Christianity that I know of. Nobody is born a Christian. Everyone is not a Christian. People don't "REVERT" to Christianity if they become a Christian.

Also, you started out your little attack upon me with:

You know, I definately recall you going on an epic rant against Islam once, for its arrogance in suggesting that there is no such thing as a non-Muslim or former-Muslim, just Muslims that had strayed from the path. I mean you had really harsh words for them, and talked about how such dangerous beliefs fed into the violent jihadist agenda. Just sayin.

Which was an absolute lie, because, as I said:

...the individual had stated that "EVERYONE" is Muslim, and if you are not living as a Muslim now, and then become one, you have actually "REVERTED." This is part and parcel of Muslim fundamentalist theology (fundamentalist...not all). The entire global population is Muslim, but just isn't living that way and isn't living under its rule.

You're an evil liar and a hypocrite.

Also, whoever stated that previous anonymous quote that is all over the Internet is at best ill-educated in theology...at worst a liar as well.

[Tel Prydain]

I like Johan and IrishWhiskey.
Just saying.

I agree more with Johan, but the *cough*debates*cough* are always fun to read.

[IrishWhiskey]

You stated that:...Good Lord.... I.... you keep selectively quoting that as if people can't just read the rest, as if I don't know what I wrote:You said no one thinks that (that you know of anyway)Do you want to keep repeating that as if I said something different? As if I left out "that you know of"?

Which was an absolute lie, because, as I said:I acknowledged the distinction you made, and tried to respond to it. My remembrance differed somewhat from how you describe it, and thats fine. I didn't keep arguing that you said something else. Yet you keep blatantly lying about what I say? Its...bizarre.
Also, whoever stated that previous anonymous quote that is all over the Internet is at best ill-educated in theology...at worst a liar as well.I agree. I never claimed it represented my faith, or yours or Christianity in general. Just that there's at least one person out there with a bad view, and thats its not good to judge the whole because of it. In Islam or Christianity. I'm not quite sure how many times I have to reiterate my argument before you pay it the slightest attention, instead of just making up whatever rage-filled rants are in your head.

[Johan]

We will never agree on anything of substance.

We will never like each other.

We will never respect each other.

We will barely, if at all, tolerate one another.

Best to be done with this. Until next time.

[IrishWhiskey]

We will never agree on anything of substance.

We will never like each other.

We will never respect each other.

We will barely, if at all, tolerate one another.

Best to be done with this. Until next time.I don't bear you any particular animosity. It bothers me when you insult viciously like that, but it doesn't that you disagree with me. I'd like one day to have a real conversation, but that's clearly not today.

Also if we are never going to agree on anything of substance, then I like puppies and sunshine. I got dibs. Puppy-hater.

[Tel Prydain]

http://www.katurday.com/wp-content/uploads/itgotweird.jpg

[Johan]

On second thought, there won't be a next time. I misspoke. I will not be responding to any more of your posts, which is the simplest solution.

[ascl]

Until you Christians start producing culture and media worth a damn, I'll take my godless entertainment.

Ah thats where you are wrong. EXTREME MORMONS

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZVGilGsfmcQ



EDIT: Wow, the post I replied to was when this was still light hearted... I should have read the rest, it seems like it went weird :(

[Ultima Thulian]

Irish, when well you learn that arguing with Johan is pointless. Just go with the ride. He will never be banned apparently, a side effect of being a high paying member I'm sure.

Instead of arguing with him and making this place worse for it, ignore the fuckwit and just laugh at him. I find once he knows no one is biting his bullshit bait, he goes away. So ignore them until the reds wake up and ban him. Fuck, he even wants banned. I honestly can't think of any other reason he hasn't been banned yet. A "yellow" member would've been banned straight to hell eight times over by now. Just sayin'.

[Johan]

Irish, when well you learn that arguing with Johan is pointless.

Nice reading! This argument was not instigated by me. It was instigated by a troll who came in with the purpose of lying about what I had said in a previous conversation dealing with the crazy idea of another poster that all people are Muslim and merely revert to that religion. That's nuts. It was also instigated by this other poster with the obvious purpose of showing the world that there's apparently one Christian out there, if not a few others, who are absolutely nuts (wow...some people are crazy? Holy shit! I never knew!). I replied clearly to set the record straight, and got attacked.

Here's that wonderful quote:

"No, everyone is born Christian. Only later in life do people choose to stray from Jesus and worship satan instead. Atheists have the greatest "cover" of all, they insist they believe in no god yet most polls done and the latest research indicates that they are actually a different sect of Muslims."

Why someone who claims to be of a faith would post a nut-bag quote about that faith...one making the rounds of the Internet...is beyond me.

You might want to read up a bit.

Also, I'm not pink from my own donations. I have donated, but not enough to be pink.

Additionally, there are very few people around here who haven't deserved to be banned.

Finally, please feel free to block/ignore/skip-over my posts. I'm really quite content with that.

In conclusion...shove it! :D

[Ultima Thulian]

See what I mean Irish? I wasn't even talking to Johan, and he thinks I was. And of course, he's hoping I'll read his response. I didn't it. It's probably some rant saying I'm a hypocrite and/or can't read.

But notice how I'm not speaking to him. I'm not looking at him. He can rattle his cup all day long, but he ain't gettin' change for a sammich, capiche? Just ignore him Irish and report his posts. It's the best one can do.

[Smoof]

See what I mean Irish? I wasn't even talking to Johan, and he thinks I was. And of course, he's hoping I'll read his response. I didn't it. It's probably some rant saying I'm a hypocrite and/or can't read.

But notice how I'm not speaking to him. I'm not looking at him. He can rattle his cup all day long, but he ain't gettin' change for a sammich, capiche? Just ignore him Irish and report his posts. It's the best one can do.

*tsst*

http://images.southparkstudios.com/img/content/season10/1007.gif

?

[Ultima Thulian]

"I'm displaying dominance. And only when he gives off the desired behavior will we acknowledge him."

*TSST*

[Johan]

...he's hoping I'll read his response.

Speaking of me in the third-person is gratifying...:D

http://clinton-legacy.org/humor/pardon_303_marlette.gif

[Bone]

I literally just walked into my house from a Manson show. He set a bible on fire. It was sacrelicious.Not to disrespect your personal tastes, but Manson seems like such a poseur to me. Setting a Bible on fire is the kind of poseur trick I would expect to see some Goth kid pulling off at the food court of the local mall.

And no, I'm not religious at all, actually agnostic. I just think people like Manson are part of the problem, not the solution, to religious fundamentalism. You could almost say he is a fundamentalist himself.

[Karamazov]

Until you Christians start producing culture and media worth a damn, I'll take my godless entertainment.

So... Beethoven's 9th, the Last Supper, Paradise Lost, etc. are not "worth a damn?"

[Ultima Thulian]

It's just shock rock. It's just for show. He's a modern Alice Cooper without the talent. *shrugs*

[IrishWhiskey]

It was also instigated by this other poster with the obvious purpose of showing the world that there's apparently one Christian out there, if not a few others, who are absolutely nuts (wow...some people are crazy? Holy shit! I never knew!). You said you couldn't think of any Christians who thought like that. I pointed out one. I've repeated this fifty times already.
Why someone who claims to be of a faith would post a nut-bag quote about that faith...one making the rounds of the Internet...is beyond me.I've explained again and again exactly why. But thats not what this is all about. I just that I can't say anything about my own faith thats not glowingly positive without you branding me a traitor and terrible person. Hell, I didn't even say anything bad about Christianity, just that there are a few nutso's in all faiths. But pointing out that there's one bad person is enough to accuse me of hating my faith and Jesus. I don't think I've seen anyone so quick to take offense at nothing controversial. But even though the site is filled with atheists and people who criticize Christianity, its only my far more benign comments that you explode at. I have to assume its personal.

I think Christianity has done good and bad things and there are plenty of people who interpret it for peace, love and charity, and others who twist its meanings. If that induces rage in you, well, too bad.

[Ultima Thulian]

So... Beethoven's 9th, the Last Supper, Paradise Lost, etc. are not "worth a damn?"

And the entire catalouge of Bach.

How bout this...modern christian music? There, let's see ya squirm your way outta that! :D

[mr. murphy]

Not to disrespect your personal tastes, but Manson seems like such a poseur to me. Setting a Bible on fire is the kind of poseur trick I would expect to see some Goth kid pulling off at the food court of the local mall.

And no, I'm not religious at all, actually agnostic. I just think people like Manson are part of the problem, not the solution, to religious fundamentalism. You could almost say he is a fundamentalist himself.

Yep, he's fundamentally anti-christian. I think it was more of a problem when it was only the Christians point of view getting out there - at least with artists like him, we get the other perspective.

[Ultima Thulian]

sigh...

Irish listens not.

Oh well. Attention everyone. Your favorite band sucks. That is all.

[Karamazov]

How bout this...modern christian music? There, let's see ya squirm your way outta that! :D

Why? Its all shit...

[Johan]

Irish listens not.

Your powers of persuasion are weak. They suck, in fact! :D

[Ultima Thulian]

True. Maybe religious music, particularly Christian music, should go back to the classical route? Hey, it worked out for them for several centuries right?

[IrishWhiskey]

sigh...

Irish listens not.

Oh well. Attention everyone. Your favorite band sucks. That is all.I'm a compulsive arguer. Surely you noticed that. I almost never post in threads where everyone is in agreement.

Also if you are saying that The Who sucks, there is going to be some violence here...again...

On topic, gospel, blues, soul music (James Brown has some great religious songs), and classical are all good examples of Christian music. Short of that the best Christian rock I can think of is U2, which isn't much of a compliment.

[Baron Samedi]

sigh...

Irish listens not.

Oh well. Attention everyone. Your favorite band sucks. That is all.

Not only that, but they're inherently anti-Christian, too!

[Ultima Thulian]

I'm a compulsive arguer. Surely you noticed that. I almost never post in threads where everyone is in agreement.

Also if you are saying that The Who sucks, there is going to be some violence here...again...

But that's the thing, good sir. You're not arguing. You'd be better off speaking to a brick wall. Same effect without any of the bullshit.

Also, I'm a Zeppelin fan. You're a Who fan.

We must fight!

[Tel Prydain]

Irish, when well you learn that arguing with Johan is pointless. Just go with the ride. He will never be banned apparently, a side effect of being a high paying member I'm sure.

Oh, for fucks sake. Did someone say, “Ultima, there’s a flame war that just died out and needs your help to get it started again!”. No? Then WHY would you do such a thing?

Irish and Johan deserve each other... they are like ying and yang. You don't need to encourage their flame wars - they'll hapen all by themselves.

[Ultima Thulian]

Not only that, but they're inherently anti-Christian, too!

Which also mans they are anti-family. Which also means they are anti-children! Alert the Pentagon! :D

[Johan]

Oh, for fucks sake. Did someone say, “Ultima, there’s a flame war that just died out and needs your help to get it started again!”. No? Then WHY would you do such a thing?

Because Ultima, like most people (there are some who are not), is an asshole who enjoys what most of the rest of us enjoy online here (but few enough will admit it, like I do); FLAMES!!!

http://www.emoticons4u.com/violent/sterb126.gif

[Tel Prydain]

See what I mean Irish? I wasn't even talking to Johan, and he thinks I was. And of course, he's hoping I'll read his response. I didn't it. It's probably some rant saying I'm a hypocrite and/or can't read.

But notice how I'm not speaking to him. I'm not looking at him. He can rattle his cup all day long, but he ain't gettin' change for a sammich, capiche? Just ignore him Irish and report his posts. It's the best one can do.
Oh, pull your fucken head outta your ass. You're a total wanker if you think you can bad mouth someone and then act high and mighty when they relpy to your acusations.

[Ultima Thulian]

Oh, for fucks sake. Did someone say, “Ultima, there’s a flame war that just died out and needs your help to get it started again!”. No? Then WHY would you do such a thing?

Irish and Johan deserve each other... they are like ying and yang. You don't need to encourage their flame wars - they'll hapen all by themselves.

Are you kidding? I tried to persuade Irish to ignore Johan, the only way this ignorant bitching will ever stop, cause Johan will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny.

Personally, I'd like to see them stop. But if they are guaranteed to happen as you say, then I'll get my kicks in before the shithouse goes up in flames. And if they are guaranteed to happen anyway, then my actions carry little consequence, which means you have little reason to bitch at me. :p

[Johan]

Are you kidding? I tried to persuade Irish to ignore Johan, the only way this ignorant bitching will ever stop, cause Johan will go on and on like the Energizer Bunny.

It had already ended. Sorry you didn't notice. :rolleyes:

This is fun, though. I'm home sick with the kids asleep, so I'm bored. Thanks!

[NationalKato]

Irish and Johan deserve each other... they are like ying and yang.

You say that like yin and yang are equal. But in this case it is not so.

[Tel Prydain]

You say that like yin and yang are equal. But in this case it is not so.

Yeah, Johan is much more reasoned then Irish is.
No offence Irish, you’re a great poster.

[IrishWhiskey]

Also, I'm a Zeppelin fan. You're a Who fan.

We must fight!Hmm... dammit.

Robert Plant is overrated, and The Who have better songs... but Led Zeppelin probably has a better discography. Those two and 98 Degrees make up the trilogy of classic rock. So you may live for now.

[Ultima Thulian]

Oh, pull your fucken head outta your ass. You're a total wanker if you think you can bad mouth someone and then act high and mighty when they relpy to your acusations.

What the fuck is a wanker? Is that like one of those Pancake Sausages or something? I kid.

Also, simmer down. If they are so intent on arguing, then it doesn't matter what I do. So what's the harm in having a little fun? I ain't flaming or trolling, though I'm giving Irish a bit of hard time, something we both joke about. Of course, I'm a Zeppelin fan, and he is a Who fan, so we'll have to fight each other to the death to prove which band is superior. But such is life.

But you say I'm an asshole, then say, "You're a total wanker if you think you can bad mouth someone and then act high and mighty when they relpy to your acusations." Whoopsie-Doodle! :D

I don't claim to better. I'm just telling Irish that Johan won't stop what he's doing. He enjoys it too much. He's admitted as much several times. So, if he's annoying you, and it does seem Irish is annoyed, then the best you can do is ignore him until a red does something or Johan cools off.

But here here! No need for you and I to fight. I apologize for my actions, if you felt they were in poor form.

[torrefaction]

The shithouse goes up in flames.

Ultima stole this line from The Doors movie.

He's not cool enough to think of a line like that.

[Ultima Thulian]

Hmm... dammit.

Robert Plant is overrated, and The Who have better songs... but Led Zeppelin probably has a better discography. Those two and 98 Degrees make up the trilogy of classic rock. So you may live for now.

Yea, in seriousness, both bands are great. I just love how the band and fans of both bands used to have some tension between each other.

[Johan]

I ain't flaming or trolling

Yeah...right! Please just be honest. You're enjoying stirring the shit. What was that you said? Oh yeah...

ignore the fuckwit and just laugh at him. I find once he knows no one is biting his bullshit bait...

Nope. Not trolling. No flames! Hahahaha! :D

Honesty is good for the soul, Ultima. Live in the light, young man...live in the light of the truth about your words!

[Ultima Thulian]

Ultima stole this line from The Doors movie.

He's not cool enough to think of a line like that.

Did I just pull a Menstealia? :D But yea, it is from the Doors. I heard it when listening to a live version of "Roadhouse Blues." Morrison talks about astrology being a bunch of bullshit and then says that famous line. I haven't seen the movie though. It's a great line though, I couldn't resist using it. :)

[Tel Prydain]

Also if we are never going to agree on anything of substance, then I like puppies and sunshine. I got dibs. Puppy-hater.
Actually, flicking back, this was the call of the thread :D

[torrefaction]

Did I just pull a Menstealia? :D But yea, it is from the Doors. I heard it when listening to a live version of "Roadhouse Blues." Morrison talks about astrology being a bunch of bullshit and then says that famous line. I haven't seen the movie though. It's a great line though, I couldn't resist using it. :)

Cool...That's an even better source. I just assumed it was from the movie, cuz that's where it got the most exposure :)

[Ultima Thulian]

Cool...That's an even better source. I just assumed it was from the movie, cuz that's where it got the most exposure :)

Should I check out the movie? Is it any good? I saw it in the bargain bin and was thinking about getting it, but I wasn't sure if it would be accurate or good.

[Tel Prydain]

What the fuck is a wanker? Is that like one of those Pancake Sausages or something? I kid.

It initially referred to "one who masturbates" but has since become a general insult. It is synonymous with tosser.
Wanker literally means" "one who wanks" (masturbates). It is normally intended as a general insult rather than as an accusation. It conveys contempt, not commentary on normal sexual habits. Wanker has similar meanings and overtones to American pejoratives like "jerk", "jerk-off", and "prick". One particular connotation is of someone self-obsessed or a show-off (usually male).

I also kid. =o)

[Ultima Thulian]

Oh, in that case, I'm definitely a wanker. Also, those pancake sausages? I was NOT kidding 'bout those. They're an American food...a delicacy!

http://bgcooper.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/jimmy-dean-pancake-sausage-chocolate-chip-736804.jpg

[Tel Prydain]

Oh, in that case, I'm definitely a wanker. Also, those pancake sausages? I was NOT kidding 'bout those. They're an American food...a delicacy!

http://bgcooper.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/jimmy-dean-pancake-sausage-chocolate-chip-736804.jpg

I... I am shocked that anyone could put that into their mouth.

[torrefaction]

Should I check out the movie? Is it any good? I saw it in the bargain bin and was thinking about getting it, but I wasn't sure if it would be accurate or good.

Actually it's GREAT. At times, it's a bit sensationalist, but overall it's an incredible movie. I tend to dig Oliver Stone's work though.

[NationalKato]

Should I check out the movie? Is it any good?

Well, it had the approval of all band members except for Densmore, but that guy doesn't approve anything. ;) I think it's one of Stone's best movies - and I love anything lensed by Robert Richardson! The man's a genius with light and color.

[roboninja]

Actually it's GREAT. At times, it's a bit sensationalist, but overall it's an incredible movie. I tend to dig Oliver Stone's work though.

Finally, some good coming from this thread. See the movie, it is very good.

[IrishWhiskey]

I... I am shocked that anyone could put that into their mouth.Pff, thats for the weak

http://www.seriouseats.com/required_eating/PS_blueberry.jpg

Jimmy Dean BLUEBERRY Pancake and Sausage on a stick is where its at.

[Bone]

Actually it's GREAT. At times, it's a bit sensationalist, but overall it's an incredible movie. I tend to dig Oliver Stone's work though.
I came out of that movie feeling like I was on a hallucinogen. And this was during a brief period of my teens where I was actually not.

[Bone]

Comparing it to emo is doing it a favor. The best thing is going to a service and watching all these people get off, hands raised, while singing. It's better than XBL!
He compared it to punk, not emo. Do we need to go back to the punk != emo thread? ;)

[TheFlyingOrc]

As a former Christian, I know all too well what this man speaks of. Even then, I couldn't take the music.

I'll stick with "satan's music." He may be an asshole, but sorry Jesus, your music sucks.
That isn't Jesus's music.

It's closer to fan fiction, which is always terrible.

[Ultima Thulian]

Finally, some good coming from this thread. See the movie, it is very good.

See, for the exception of Natural Born Killers, I haven't enjoyed any of Stone's work thus far. But I'll definately check it out, especially if most of the band members approved of it.

[Ultima Thulian]

That isn't Jesus's music.

It's closer to fan fiction, which is always terrible.

:D That's pretty funny! I wonder if Jesus approves of the fan fiction?

[NationalKato]

That isn't Jesus's music.


So what music did Jesus listen to? 'Cause basically, every bit of religious music throughout history isn't Jesus' music. Not unless it's an Arabaic folk song or something.

[NationalKato]

But I'll definately check it out, especially if most of the band members approved of it.

UT, keep in mind while you watch that Val Kilmer sung most of the songs himself. I think you'll be impressed by his ability to mimic Morrison.

[Ultima Thulian]

I... I am shocked that anyone could put that into their mouth.

America...we're amazing. Should I tell you about the McDonald's McSkillet Burrito...or do you think you can handle it? :D

I never tried the Pancake Sausage thing...never will. But I grudgingly admit to trying the McSkillet. It was free and I was hungry...but goddamn. Those things are death wrapped in a flour tortilla.

[Ultima Thulian]

UT, keep in mind while you watch that Val Kilmer sung most of the songs himself. I think you'll be impressed by his ability to mimic Morrison.

Really? That's gutsy, if nothing else. And if it is quality like you say, then big kudos to Kilmer.

[NationalKato]

Forget the McSkillet Burrito...how about the KFC Bowl? (http://www.avclub.com/content/feature/a_v_club_taste_test_special_the)

[Ultima Thulian]

Dood, the McSkillet beats the KFC Bowl hands down in pure gluttonous display.

[torrefaction]

Really? That's gutsy, if nothing else. And if it is quality like you say, then big kudos to Kilmer.

It's extreme quality. I was AMAZED when I found out, and I'm a big Morrison fan. (Hence me knowing exactly where that quote came from.)

[Ultima Thulian]

In that case Torre, I'll buy the movie. It was only $5. So even if you're wrong, which I doubt, it'll only cost me a marginal sum.

[KingGorilla]

I... I am shocked that anyone could put that into their mouth.

As am I, it is not hard to make pigs in blankets for breakfast. Just roll a pancake around a sausage link, dip in syrup. Most instant breakfast foods shock me. Why do you need to have eggs microwaved in 2 minutes; when you could make scrambled eggs in like 5, and they will taste good.

[TheFlyingOrc]

So what music did Jesus listen to? 'Cause basically, every bit of religious music throughout history isn't Jesus' music. Not unless it's an Arabaic folk song or something.

Much of the music that came out he co-wrote with the band.

In the past 20-30 years, people keep writing fan fiction without getting his authorization.

"Yes, I'm holy. Talk about SOMETHING ELSE"

[Bone]

Those praise music commercials are pretty funny, I must say. A bunch of glazed-eyed people waving their arms in unison (without drugs!) and singing really banal lyrics while boy-band rejects lead the congregation.

I think Johnny Cash probably did the best Christian music anyway.

[deathfan]

I... I am shocked that anyone could put that into their mouth.

Dude. If we had these in New Zealand? Oh my fuck I so want one of these.