A detailed look at 360 RROD issues [Archive]

Heretic Machine

01-19-2008, 02:09 PM

Q: How many times does an Xbox 360 unit have to be sent in and repaired before they will replace it with a completely new unit?
That's not how it works. You send in a broken box, you get back a working box (hopefully). So there is a rotating stock of the original units that get repaired and returned to service. Plus, they keep finding these cashes of launch units here and there and using them too. Didn't you hear during the holidays that bundles were found with units made in 06? Those were pulled back from the retail channel last spring when the new heatsink was done, and had the new heatsink placed on them and then put into the shipping flow like any other box.

Back to the rotating inventory of launch units. You risk getting one of those back until the last one is out of the system. I imagine the next big outrage will be when some of the folks who waited till Falcon to buy a console for reliability reasons, and has to send it in for service, gets a Xenon back! Even when all of the Xenons are gone, you will likely get a newer gen repaired one back rather than new. Unless the fail rate gets so low there are none available. I'm holding my breath...

I'm sure that will be fun for you guys.

Baron Samedi

01-19-2008, 02:13 PM

I'm definitely limiting my 360 purchases from here on out. If Sony can get their act together in the next six months, I'm trading my 360 for a PS3.

Grimmjow

01-19-2008, 02:18 PM

I'm sure that will be fun for you guys.

LOL!

wow....wow MS

gzsfrk

01-19-2008, 02:20 PM

I had my one RRoD, and since then, mine has run like a champ, with tons of hours put on it. I'd like to think I could rest at ease because MS really did sort out the problems, but I actually rest more at ease because of the high-end voltage stabilizer I hooked it up to.

Remember, kids--Uncle Tusky says: "Only smacktards run their 360 off a power strip instead of plugging straight into the wall." (Qr, even better, a dedicated voltage stabilizer). :)

Libuke

01-19-2008, 02:34 PM

Tyrant

01-19-2008, 02:35 PM

Of all five videogame systems on the market now (PS3, PSP, PS2, Wii and 360)only the Xbox 360 has had such major hardware failure problems.

Maybe the writer had forgotten about this, but there was a class action lawsuit (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139482.html) against Sony a few years ago regarding the PS2's reliability.

Aside from that, it was a rather interesting, informative, and disconcerting interview.

Kelegacy

01-19-2008, 02:38 PM

That would piss me off to get a Xenon back, or one of the more noisy models, when I waited to buy a more quieter, more "reliable" Falcon. Sucks for those guys.

Norse

01-19-2008, 02:47 PM

As long as the 360 provides me with more fun than problems i'm fine with it. I had to send it in one time, but it was a quick and painless process.

Ancalagon

01-19-2008, 02:48 PM

Very good read, thanks for the link.

Kinda confirms what we already knew or suspected - the Xbox was rushed because of Sony, and all 3 are working on next gen consoles.

GrinR

01-19-2008, 02:50 PM

This past week I met and interviewed an individual who has worked on the Xbox 360 project for many years and they had some things that they wanted to get out into the public. I have the fullest confined in the integrity of my confidential source.

100% accuracy, guaranteed. I have a guy I know who tells me Obama pushed the WTC over. I also have the fullest confined in his integrity.

Seriously, why not just post "I woke up from a crazy dream, now here it is read it as if it's the truth!"

Grimmjow

01-19-2008, 02:51 PM

As long as the 360 provides me with more fun than problems i'm fine with it. I had to send it in one time, but it was a quick and painless process.

So you 're happy with the fact that you may have to keep sending in your 360 as long as they keep providing decent games that are fun?

Baron Samedi

01-19-2008, 02:57 PM

As long as the 360 provides me with more fun than problems i'm fine with it. I had to send it in one time, but it was a quick and painless process.

This is probably how most EvAvers are going to respond to this, but I have a hard time supporting 360 in good conscience. I find it ironic how idealistic most gamers are on many subjects (Politics! Religion!), but as soon as corruption sits in front of their TVs, suddenly none of those ideals applies because they're having fun. In many ways, I hope MS wins this generation just so they can fuck the entire community over. It's what we deserve.

jeffbax

01-19-2008, 02:57 PM

Which is why I'm ditching 360 like a bat out of hell.

rein

01-19-2008, 03:08 PM

100% accuracy, guaranteed. I have a guy I know who tells me Obama pushed the WTC over. I also have the fullest confined in his integrity.

Seriously, why not just post "I woke up from a crazy dream, now here it is read it as if it's the truth!"
Microsoft is welcome to release real numbers and the refute any information this guy provided in his article.

Serapth

01-19-2008, 03:10 PM

This is probably how most EvAvers are going to respond to this, but I have a hard time supporting 360 in good conscience. I find it ironic how idealistic most gamers are on many subjects (Politics! Religion!), but as soon as corruption sits in front of their TVs, suddenly none of those ideals applies because they're having fun. In many ways, I hope MS wins this generation just so they can fuck the entire community over. It's what we deserve.

... that completely ignores the fact that gaming is pretty much a luxury, while things like politics and religion have a much more fundamental impact on our daily lives. It scares me the number of people that can't make this distinction and lose perspective of how unimportant a disruption to their gaming schedule is, in the grand scheme of things.

jeffbax

01-19-2008, 03:13 PM

I think this is the same guy who leaked that Bungie was leaving MS... so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and its not like he is saying much we didn't know already.

Heretic Machine

01-19-2008, 03:13 PM

... that completely ignores the fact that gaming is pretty much a luxury, while things like politics and religion have a much more fundamental impact on our daily lives. It scares me the number of people that can't make this distinction and lose perspective of how unimportant a disruption to their gaming schedule is, in the grand scheme of things.

Which is more important to me: Gay marriage or the video game industry?

To answer this profound question, I ask myself this: How many gay men am I going to marry this year, versus the number of games which I will buy?

Gay Men Married: 0
Video Games Bought: 12+

Thus, video games are more important to me than gay marriage, a big issue in politics today.

Tyrant

01-19-2008, 03:14 PM

Microsoft is welcome to release real numbers and the refute any information this guy provided in his article.

What's the point? People will simply claim that the company is lying if the stated percentage is lower.

GrinR

01-19-2008, 03:16 PM

Microsoft is welcome to release real numbers and the refute any information this guy provided in his article.

Microsoft Xbox 360 has 100% uptime (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43023), and the SeattlePI's source is welcome to release HIS real numbers to refute THAT! If he doesn't, his information is 100% nonsense, which of course we all know it is anyway.

Gorvi

01-19-2008, 03:20 PM

Which is more important to me: Gay marriage or the video game industry?

To answer this profound question, I ask myself this: How many gay men am I going to marry this year, versus the number of games which I will buy?

Gay Men Married: 0
Video Games Bought: 12+

Thus, video games are more important to me than gay marriage, a big issue in politics today.
Way to break a guy's heart, man.... :(

Heretic Machine

01-19-2008, 03:24 PM

Way to break a guy's heart, man.... :(

You knew when you got into this thing that I wasn't going to be tied down.

Serapth

01-19-2008, 03:24 PM

GrinR

01-19-2008, 03:25 PM

You knew when you got into this thing that I wasn't going to be tied down.

MmmmMMm tied down....

DangerousDaze

01-19-2008, 03:29 PM

Maybe the writer had forgotten about this, but there was a class action lawsuit (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139482.html) against Sony a few years ago regarding the PS2's reliability.

He probably didn't forget. He probably just realised like any other non-xbot that the two issues aren't remotely comparable. 25 bucks, a free game (from a list of crappy games), a cheaper repair or an exchange. Sony's decision, not yours. Oh, and you had to have your receipt. And it only applied to certain model numbers. And it had a cut off date of 13 months after purchase.

There's a guy up there on the thread thinks it's the owner's fault for having the fucking temerity to, (and I can barely bring myself to type it), plug it into a a plug-board instead of directly into the wall! Surely only a cunt would do such a trick, a cunt who deserves a broken console.

Hatchetforce

01-19-2008, 03:30 PM

I'm definitely limiting my 360 purchases from here on out. If Sony can get their act together in the next six months, I'm trading my 360 for a PS3.

After 3 previous versions I have a HALO edition now which I purchased on launch. I won't buy another 360 or pay another penny for this crap. MS screwed me out of months of LIVE while previous 360's were in repair and they didn't reimburse me.

Hatchetforce

01-19-2008, 03:32 PM

He probably didn't forget. He probably just realised like any other non-xbot that the two issues aren't remotely comparable. 25 bucks, a free game (from a list of crappy games), a cheaper repair or an exchange. Sony's decision, not yours. Oh, and you had to have your receipt. And it only applied to certain model numbers. And it had a cut off date of 13 months after purchase.

There's a guy up there on the thread thinks it's the owner's fault for having the fucking temerity to, (and I can barely bring myself to type it), plug it into a a plug-board instead of directly into the wall! Surely only a cunt would do such a trick, a cunt who deserves a broken console.

When my launch 360 died, the first thing phone support asked me was "Do you have the 360 plugged into a surge protector?" I asked "Surge protector or powerstrip?" The 'tech' didn't know the difference.

Heretic Machine

01-19-2008, 03:33 PM

... you are cherry picking an issue. What about taxes? Terrorism? War in Iraq. Health care? Milk pasteurization laws?

How many times am I or someone I know going to go to to Iraq this year?

0 times.

How many times am I going to be seriously ill this year?

Chances are good: 0 times.

How many times am I going to be attacked by terrorists this year?

Worst case scenario: 0 times.

As for taxes, I haven't heard much from anyone that my taxes are going to be changed significantly in any case, except with Ron Paul and Huckabee. Huckabee wants to institute a national sales tax, if I understand him correctly. That actually sounds right to me, from a strictly philosophical stand point, but I'm not an economist and can't possibly predict the outcome of such a drastic change from what we're doing right now. I also think that, even if elected, he wouldn't be able to achieve this goal.

Don't get me wrong, they're important issues, they matter to me. But video games occupy most of my free time, they are more important for me, because a change there has a greater effect on me. I certainly take notice and care when things start to go wrong, as they are now.

rein

01-19-2008, 03:39 PM

Microsoft Xbox 360 has 100% uptime (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43023), and the SeattlePI's source is welcome to release HIS real numbers to refute THAT! If he doesn't, his information is 100% nonsense, which of course we all know it is anyway.
Do you realize how many scandals and news stories have broken throughout history due to journalistic investigation and unnamed sources? I'm not saying this guys is 100% correct. I'm just saying you can't dismiss everything just because it does not name the source.

A lot of what this guys said is already known. We already know the 360 is experiencing high defect rates. We already know that Microsoft recycles refurbished systems back into the market when replacing defective units. All this interview provided was a few more details and hypothesis about what might be causing some of the issues.

My point about Microsoft refuting this article is that they have the real data and can provide the truth any time they please.

Serapth

01-19-2008, 03:42 PM

How many times am I or someone I know going to go to to Iraq this year?

Seriously?!?!?!

I am in Canada, we have less then 5K soldiers deployed to Afghanistan/Iraq and still... I know people that are or have been deployed. Given that you guys have like 300K people there, that means 1 in 100 Americans are in Iraq or Afghanistan right now... pretty amazing that you dont know anyone.

... sorry, going wayyyyy off topic, whatever it was.

cp#

01-19-2008, 03:42 PM

If mine ever died (when mine dies?), I would expect a new HDMI model back at the very least

Also off topic, I know few people who have been, are in, or will be deployed soon. :(

Heretic Machine

01-19-2008, 03:45 PM

Seriously?!?!?!

I am in Canada, we have less then 5K soldiers deployed to Afghanistan/Iraq and still... I know people that are or have been deployed. Given that you guys have like 300K people there, that means 1 in 100 Americans are in Iraq or Afghanistan right now... pretty amazing that you dont know anyone.

... sorry, going wayyyyy off topic, whatever it was.

Well, that's you. I know like, one guy, and he's in Afghanistan. So, I guess I fibbed a bit, one guy might go to Iraq. But that was his choice, he joined the army two years ago and knew what he was getting into. He wanted to go, he's in favor of the war, and he's a Republican. I wish him all the best, I'm glad he got to come home safely over the holidays, but my vote isn't turning on his account one way or another.

Besides that, I don't have much of an opinion on our presence in Iraq. It's pretty fucking obvious that we're not being given the information one would need to make a decision on whether or not to stay there. I don't even know why we're there at all, I assume that there is a reason, and I'm not being told what it is. The whole government was in favor of going there a few years back, that means that if there is a reason, they probably know it. And no, I don't believe that they were all stupid enough to believe that nuke thing, any jackass could of told you that Sadaam wasn't making nukes over there.

Gorvi

01-19-2008, 03:49 PM

DangerousDaze

01-19-2008, 03:49 PM

Hatchetforce

01-19-2008, 03:50 PM

Numbers don't accurately reflect those of us that have had mutiple tours over there either.

Silly rabbit! Unnamed sources aren't acceptable for anti-Microsoft threads, just anti-Sony ones. (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38068) :p

Ha ha.

Serapth

01-19-2008, 03:52 PM

Not to nitpick, but the US has 300 million, not 300k. ;)

You have 300M in Iraq? WOW! :eek::eek:

:p

Norse

01-19-2008, 04:01 PM

So you 're happy with the fact that you may have to keep sending in your 360 as long as they keep providing decent games that are fun?
yes. I could live without my console for two weeks. I could do real life stuff while waiting for it. I would miss it, but it wouldn't ruin my life. I have a ps3 that i can go weeks without touching, so i think i'll do fine without my 360 for a while.

mister_slim

01-19-2008, 04:03 PM

There's some neat technical information in there. J Allard should have listened to him about motion control.

rein

01-19-2008, 04:09 PM

Silly rabbit! Unnamed sources aren't acceptable for anti-Microsoft threads, just anti-Sony ones. (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38068) :p
In defense of GrinR, he did not post in that thread. Not that he needs me defending him or anything... :o

sparkfizt

01-19-2008, 04:10 PM

There's some neat technical information in there. J Allard should have listened to him about motion control.

I'm glad they did'nt, i'm not convinced waggle is the future... meanwhile I've had a ton of fun with my 360.

GrinR

01-19-2008, 04:11 PM

Do you realize how many scandals and news stories have broken throughout history due to journalistic investigation and unnamed sources? I'm not saying this guys is 100% correct. I'm just saying you can't dismiss everything just because it does not name the source.

Where there's smoke, there's fire, right!?

Do you realize the number of false reports, phoney or doctored materials, hoaxes, and outright lies have come from unnamed sources?

I can in fact dismiss everything "just because" there is no reason to believe any of it. Others can choose to believe whatever they read, I have a slightly higher standard.

TrackZero

01-19-2008, 04:15 PM

http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/digitaljoystick/archives/129866.asp

Interesting read. And since I am on my 4th 360, a little disconcerting.

I'm still on my first, but I feel for people who had theirs fail. It's gotta suck. But at this point, I could care less. Either my box will die or it won't. Trying to do analysis on the subject, now, serves no real purpose.

donkeydrop

01-19-2008, 04:16 PM

100% accuracy, guaranteed. I have a guy I know who tells me Obama pushed the WTC over. I also have the fullest confined in his integrity.

Seriously, why not just post "I woke up from a crazy dream, now here it is read it as if it's the truth!"

Uhhh ... this is someone he knows to have worked for Microsoft, not quite the same as your loony friend who never even met Obama.

donkeydrop

01-19-2008, 04:19 PM

I think this is the same guy who leaked that Bungie was leaving MS... so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and its not like he is saying much we didn't know already.

Yes, it is. Loads of people cried bs and everything he said turned out to be true. I would say that validates that he has good sources inside MS.

Shodan2020

01-19-2008, 04:20 PM

I'm sure that will be fun for you guys.

I just sent mine back in for repairs (same shit as last time, not a RROD, just a busted DVD-ROM). Hopefully I'll get a Falcon back... ;)

Serapth

01-19-2008, 04:20 PM

I'm still on my first, but I feel for people who had theirs fail. It's gotta suck. But at this point, I could care less. Either my box will die or it won't. Trying to do analysis on the subject, now, serves no real purpose.

I am still on my launch console and its going well. In some ways I wouldnt mind it dying, as I would happily replace it with an Elite, HDMI + cooler + 120 GIG + silence are all seriously worth it. That said, I dont want to drop 400$ right now.

GrinR

01-19-2008, 04:26 PM

Uhhh ... this is someone he knows to have worked for Microsoft, not quite the same as your loony friend who never even met Obama.

Another vote for "I read it, so it must be true!"

donkeydrop

01-19-2008, 04:29 PM

Just one thing I noticed on the second question his uses the PSP as one of the 5 video game systems on the market but not the DS. I only bring it up as I would consider the PSP and DS a different market then the home consoles, but if he is going to bring the PSP into it as point of no or few hardware problems why not include the DS I have never heard from anyone any failures of the DS infarct I have only heard about how much punishment it can take and keep going.

Further about that question, I was under the impression that the PS2 originally did have some hardware problems?

I know this are minor things but they stuck out at me.

Yes, he left out the DS from current systems, but since his point was failure of US vs non-US systems it didn't really change anything.

PS2 is not relevant to discussion of current gen, but if he went back to last gen then failure rate on Xboxs was much higher than either PS2 or GC (or lolDreamcast), mainly due to the suckass DVD drives they used in the beginning.

Serapth

01-19-2008, 04:30 PM

Another vote for "I read it, so it must be true!"

... I used to be like that. Then I read the bible.
shit disturbing

Johan

01-19-2008, 04:36 PM

GrinR

01-19-2008, 04:43 PM

The actual failure rate? Who knows. The reality, GrinR, is that the 360 has a higher-than-it-should failure rate. It is prone to an early death, and greets it with wanton abandon.

You have never acknowledged the poor hardware of the 360 in any thread I have ever seen. Ever.

That is because it is bad science and always has been. I'm not disputing anyone's account of their experience with the 360, what I am disputing, and always have, is the ability of anyone to draw meaningful conclusions without any scientific data whatsoever.

Everyone knows there are most black people in jail than any other race. Black people are just more inclined to crime, right? This is the same sort of junk science that I've read in thread after thread.

donkeydrop

01-19-2008, 04:45 PM

Another vote for "I read it, so it must be true!"

Another vote for "This guy has proven before he has contacts inside Microsoft." This article may give more details, but we already had objective proof that:

1) failure rate is around 30%
2) main cause of failure is excess heat leading to warping of the motherboard and failure of solder joints
3) DVD drive failure rate is also excessively high

Johan

01-19-2008, 04:47 PM

That is because it is bad science and always has been.

In that case, I see two possible stances for you:

1. You have your own theory of what is occurring, if anything (perhaps everyone else is lying?)

OR

2. You are glad that there is no definitive proof, so you can continue to deny the existence of a problem.

Am I missing an option? You either think there's a problem or there isn't, right? :confused:

GrinR

01-19-2008, 04:51 PM

Another vote for "This guy has proven before he has contacts inside Microsoft." This article may give more details, but we already had objective proof that:

1) failure rate is around 30%
2) main cause of failure is excess heat leading to warping of the motherboard and failure of solder joints
3) DVD drive failure rate is also excessively high

What is the proof? He made a prediction and then it happened?

When I watch movies where a crowd is easily manipulated, just when I'm about to criticize it for being unrealistic I think about threads like this one. Yep. That's sure fire proof all right. No need to have a name or any kind of evidence. Just make a prediction, wait for it to come true, and everyone will be convinced you have an accurate source.

Proof POSITIVE!

donkeydrop

01-19-2008, 04:51 PM

That is because it is bad science and always has been.

Your own ignorance doesn't make something non-scientific. Just as an example, extreme value theory makes it quite simple to use cases of individual customers with many failures to accurately determine the average failure rate.

donkeydrop

01-19-2008, 04:53 PM

What is the proof? He made a prediction and then it happened?

I predict thatthe sun will come up tomorrow, but I guess if you feel like sleeping all day you wont believe that either.

jeffbax

01-19-2008, 04:54 PM

Johan

01-19-2008, 04:58 PM

By the way: The linked article is an excellent read.

Oh...and the 360 has ALWAYS been a piece of shit. Those on the boards here who have said that "the problems have been solved" have also been full of shit.

Thank you, thank you...I can point out the obvious! :D

GrinR

01-19-2008, 05:02 PM

Your own ignorance doesn't make something non-scientific. Just as an example, extreme value theory makes it quite simple to use cases of individual customers with many failures to accurately determine the average failure rate.

Do tell. I don't enjoy being ignorant. I'd like to see meaningful data derived from unspecified numbers of variable anecdote. Perhaps your theory can account for the environmental effects on the 360, or mistreatment of the device by users who don't want to admit it. Presumably your theory will read minds as well.

Serapth

01-19-2008, 05:05 PM

Everyone knows there are most black people in jail than any other race. Black people are just more inclined to crime, right? This is the same sort of junk science that I've read in thread after thread.

... bad example, as statistically the answer is yes. Of course, there are other factors ( social/economic ) that are far more important then skin color. That said, per capita, blacks are more inclined to crime.

rein

01-19-2008, 05:06 PM

That is because it is bad science and always has been. I'm not disputing anyone's account of their experience with the 360, what I am disputing, and always have, is the ability of anyone to draw meaningful conclusions without any scientific data whatsoever.

Microsoft admitted to a high failure rate of the 360 consoles. They also extended the warranty by two years. I think it is pretty safe to come to a meaningful conclusion that the 360 has a higher than normal failure rate. Microsoft can end all of the speculation on the percentage of defective units by releasing the data. I wish they would so the issue can be put to rest.

Johan

01-19-2008, 05:08 PM

Microsoft admitted to a high failure rate of the 360 consoles.

But there's no evidence that they were telling the truth! :D

See what I did there?

Serapth

01-19-2008, 05:09 PM

Microsoft admitted to a high failure rate of the 360 consoles. They also extended the warranty by two years. I think it is pretty safe to come to a meaningful conclusion that the 360 has a higher than normal failure rate. Microsoft can end all of the speculation on the percentage of defective units by releasing the data. I wish they would so the issue can be put to rest.

Thats not necisarrily true. It could just be that Sony are just much bigger douchebags! Shit on MS all you want, reality is they have damned good customer support. The defect rate on the PS2 seemed to be huge aswell, difference is, Sony let their customers bear the burden.

rein

01-19-2008, 05:10 PM

But there's no evidence that they were telling the truth! :D

See what I did there?
You're a bad man. :p

Heretic Machine

01-19-2008, 05:12 PM

Thats not necisarrily true. It could just be that Sony are just much bigger douchebags! Shit on MS all you want, reality is they have damned good customer support. The defect rate on the PS2 seemed to be huge aswell, difference is, Sony let their customers bear the burden.

Pff, before you say that they have good customer support, try calling them sometime. All I get are Indian jackasses who have no idea what they're doing, and no authority to give me the help I need.

rein

01-19-2008, 05:22 PM

Thats not necisarrily true. It could just be that Sony are just much bigger douchebags! Shit on MS all you want, reality is they have damned good customer support. The defect rate on the PS2 seemed to be huge aswell, difference is, Sony let their customers bear the burden.
Huh? I'm not sure I follow. :confused:

How do the PS2 failure rates, Sony being a douchebag, or Microsoft's customer service make any of what I said in that post untrue? I guess if you are saying the PS2 also had high failure rates, I agree. I still do not see how that makes the 360 failure rates any less of an issue.

Johan

01-19-2008, 05:23 PM

Shit on MS all you want, reality is they have damned good customer support.

*raises hand*

Do you have empirical evidence of this? I don't trust your sources. I, for one, have had LOUSY experiences with MS customer service. Atrocious. They had me spend hours deleting/redownloading titles to fix a problem that could not be fixed that way. They have kept me waiting for five months with no answer as to whether they are actually going to solve my problem with DRM or not. They keep me on hold for an hour or more each time I call.

Their support sucks, in my opinion.

Ancalagon

01-19-2008, 05:27 PM

Housemixer

01-19-2008, 05:36 PM

I want to point something out to you guys.

Here is a list of threads started by HatchetForce (who started this thread):
/start list
[...]
/end list

That was the first page. I left out a few threads.

What do you guys think?

I don't really see a connection between his Sony bias and the link he posted (after all, it's not his article) :confused:

Ancalagon

01-19-2008, 05:38 PM

I don't really see a connection between his Sony bias and the link he posted (after all, it's not his article) :confused:

Someone with an obvious Sony bias posts an article ripping Microsoft?

Well, I guess the OP's bias need not imply that the article is biased. I dunno, was just curious, so I had a look.

Serapth

01-19-2008, 05:44 PM

Huh? I'm not sure I follow. :confused:

How do the PS2 failure rates, Sony being a douchebag, or Microsoft's customer service make any of what I said in that post untrue? I guess if you are saying the PS2 also had high failure rates, I agree. I still do not see how that makes the 360 failure rates any less of an issue.

pretty safe to come to a meaningful conclusion that the 360 has a higher than normal failure rate

... just trying to define what normal is. Not defending the 360, its a pretty horrible piece of hardware QA wise. That said, I dont think I am not convinced it is really that bad compard to history. NES was a joke, almost every single one broke, period. The Atari was also terrible, the intellivision controllers broke if you looked at them funny... and they were hardwired so you couldnt easily fix them. Plus, the PS1 and PS2 seemed to have a fairly terrible run of things, and even the Xbox1 had a faulty DVD drive for 1/3 consoles, depending on which manufacturer provided the player, not to mention the recall on powersupplies.

I dont think the 360 is necisarrily that much worse then alot of previous consoles... its just that the failure is pretty damned high profile... and the world is much more connected when it comes to spreading the word.

violentp

01-19-2008, 05:52 PM

I want to point something out to you guys.

Here is a list of threads started by HatchetForce (who started this thread):
[...]
What do you guys think?

I think whatever you're attempting is pretty fucking sad. Your ability to attempt to discredit a story based on the individual posted is ignorant. I for one appreciate seeing positive Sony news every once in a while and if HF does that, I thank him. And this RRoD story, it's fucking true. It's a major problem and he posted it so we can read it. Why that's a problem I fail to realize.

Talon-

01-19-2008, 05:52 PM

Well, considering half the people I know have had 360 issues, I wouldn't be surprised by any news that comes out along this article's grounds.

Granted, this article is on some shaky ground, so I'm not that likely to believe it.

DaXIthR

01-19-2008, 06:05 PM

Given that you guys have like 300K people there, that means 1 in 100 Americans are in Iraq or Afghanistan right now... pretty amazing that you dont know anyone.

Not to nitpick, but the US has 300 million, not 300k. ;)

You have 300M in Iraq? WOW! :eek::eek:

OK, this is in response to a tangent on a tangent, but bear with me...because the math and logic exercised here is unforgivable.

The US has 300M people about 300K in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's 1 in 1000. Not 1 in 100.

Alright, ON TOPIC:

Great read. Thanks for the link, Hatchetforce.

I'm with Kalaquinn. I've got a disc-scratching Falcon right now, and even though I had the foresight to get the Best Buy product replacement plan, SoCal BBs have been completely out of systems since Christmas Eve.

If Sony can get its shit together in a major way, I'll gladly say goodbye to MS. I've been disgusted by Sony's arrogance and delusional ramblings as much as anyone, but MS is holding me hostage. If you've got the tolerance and patience for this shit, congratulations. I suppose I'm guilty of being fastidious.

Goronmon

01-19-2008, 06:18 PM

I want to point something out to you guys.Why are you wasting your time posting this information?

Hatchetforce

01-19-2008, 06:20 PM

I want to point something out to you guys.

Here is a list of threads started by HatchetForce (who started this thread):
/start list

A detailed look at 360 RROD issues

PS3 XMB playing Live Encrypted TV via TVersity media streamer

CNN says Walmart stores going Bluray player only

4 major unannounced characters in MGS4

RESISTANCE 2 REVEALED! 60man MP, 8p Co-op..Woah!

Play Crysis on your PS3

PSP getting Divx in 4.0?

Over 70 weapons in MGS4 + New Footage

Gates syas 360 to be most reliable console

Sony makes Bluray to PSP Transfer Official

Paramount reversing and going Bluray?

Warner Brothers Goes Bluray Exclusive

Madden '08 PS3 patch set to go live Tuesday morning

HD DVD Group cancels CES Event

Sony BMG dropping DRM

Konami's Michael Shelling Slams MGS4 on 360 rumors

BJs Wholesale drops HD DVD goes with Bluray

/end list

That was the first page. I left out a few threads.

What do you guys think?

And your point is?

I own all 3 consoles and have personal experience with them. Not the kiosk or neighbor's house experience either. And your consoles are...?

To paraphrase former Xbox cheerleader Peter Moore, "What matters to the customer is the way they are treated." Damn right.

3 dead consoles, my launch check reimbursement still not arrived, countless aggravation, 2 months of Live not reimbursed, lost money trading a dead console in for a HALO edition so I could stop getting other people's dead POS refurbs, and a dead play and charge kit that cost me 6 weeks of AA batteries.

Microsoft got the customer they created. And I still buy the occasional 360 game. How does my being a believer in Sony's console and vision as the better choice affect the veracity and viability of the threads posted?

Again, what is your point?

DangerousDaze

01-19-2008, 06:21 PM

I want to point something out to you guys.

Here is a list of threads started by HatchetForce (who started this thread):
/start list

... a big list ...

/end list

That was the first page. I left out a few threads.

What do you guys think?

I think the article was interesting and has sparked a healthy debate. Love the "you guys" bit as well, like as if everyone except the OP is somehow in the Microsoft "gang".

Telefrog

01-19-2008, 06:21 PM

Honestly, I didn't find much in this article all that surprising.

I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I will eventually be replacing my 360, and likely will need to repair that replacement at least once before this console generation is over.

Zanzibar

01-19-2008, 06:26 PM

Yeah, seriously, why attack the article? It's an interesting read, and there's an EXTREME possibility that it is correct.

Johan

01-19-2008, 06:29 PM

I've been disgusted by Sony's arrogance and delusional ramblings as much as anyone, but MS is holding me hostage. If you've got the tolerance and patience for this shit, congratulations. I suppose I'm guilty of being fastidious.

Truth...truth...truth.

This is the thing about console gaming that bothers me so damn much; unlike music and DVDs (I'm not talking HD, though that is headed in the direction of a single standard), game-playing devices are NOT compatible/inter-operable. Hence, when one console has the bulk of games that interests a person, it is indeed akin to being held "hostage" because the choice is to either bite the bullet and buy, or miss out on something you enjoy.

I do NOT like this feature of the gaming industry at all. I know the arguments for competition, for creativity and moving the industry forward, and all that stuff. I don't see why incompatible systems is an essential element of a healthy, competitive market.

Also, I don't care what the OP's bias is. Everyone here has a bias. My comments in here are based upon my own experience with the 360, the reality of what I see happening to others' 360s, and the article.

Denying the reality of hardware problems with the 360 is nuts. Microsoft themselves ADMIT a higher-than-acceptable failure rate! I suppose they were lying; it's not really a problem of design/hardware, but a problem of improper usage. :D They responded and extended the warranty across the board (pun) for all their customers because...because...well, just because they wanted to take the heat off of John and Jane 360-owner for breaking their own box. :rolleyes:

JayK47

01-19-2008, 11:28 PM

I'd like to think of myself, my friends, and my brother as hardcore gamers. Never in my life have any of us had issues with consoles before the Xbox 360 besides the old NES requiring some "reinsertion". The Xbox 360 comes along, and suddenly there is down time for repairs. It is more or less considered part of the 360 experience. That is sad. Period. I'm sure any "proof" has been covered up. Come on, this is a billion dollar company. They want you to believe everything is under control so you keep buying games for your xbox. So shut up, and buy some games will ya.

PopoWRX

01-20-2008, 01:08 AM

Pc gaming friends. At least you can replace defective hardware with what you want!

Sure its more expensive but, hey, no hostage holding here!

Dirty Harry

01-20-2008, 03:23 AM

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8739/25pc7.gif

RorschachCCCLX

01-20-2008, 08:16 AM

I love my 360, but its reliablity issues is a major thing against them now, they've had over two years to resolve this problem and now people are bringing back brand new arcades and elites to me at gamestop and are returning it for a PS3, no longer are they happy to get another 360. Microsoft needs to fix the damn box, recall it if nessisary. and I don't buy user error as a cause in so many cases, trust me, I see enough burn ringed discs in a day from jokers moving their systems while its on to know users screw up stuff.. but not so bad that nearly every 360 owner I've known has sent it in at least once.

Ancalagon

01-20-2008, 10:34 AM

And your point is?

I own all 3 consoles and have personal experience with them. Not the kiosk or neighbor's house experience either. And your consoles are...?

To paraphrase former Xbox cheerleader Peter Moore, "What matters to the customer is the way they are treated." Damn right.

3 dead consoles, my launch check reimbursement still not arrived, countless aggravation, 2 months of Live not reimbursed, lost money trading a dead console in for a HALO edition so I could stop getting other people's dead POS refurbs, and a dead play and charge kit that cost me 6 weeks of AA batteries.

Microsoft got the customer they created. And I still buy the occasional 360 game. How does my being a believer in Sony's console and vision as the better choice affect the veracity and viability of the threads posted?

Again, what is your point?

Hatchetforce, I realize I owe you an apology. It was wrong of me to dig up your post history - it has nothing to do with the validity of this article. I'm sorry I did, I realized I kinda aired your laundry.

Anyway, whatever your position on the consoles may be, I found it interesting, it confirmed some of what I thought. Its just that it seemed a little too perfect, but then again, I should have discussed the article, not the poster.

Sorry again.

Hatchetforce

01-20-2008, 11:33 AM

Hey, I came back swinging and that may have been too much as well. It happens. None of us can truly be objective. As much as we would like to be, we can't.

And the industry isn't objective either. Look at Mass Effect. A game I was running just this morning. Look at the issues in that game. It received a pass by prominent publications - yeah I am talking to you Dan HSU - over issues that were used to damn other games. Does this mean I don't like it? No. But it isn't all that and a bag of chips.

Now is that assessment I just wrote fair considering my post history? No. Are my observations invalid because of my bias? No. And I am honest about it.

Yes I post positive PS3 news and I also deliver information about MS that is less than charitable. It doesn't mean that news isn't vaild. Could I be more balanced? Absolutely. But I openly admit I am not because of past bad history with MS, what I view (rightly or wrongly) as mainstream press bias against Sony, and my belief based on firsthand experience with multiple Sony systems that they have the best plan for the next 5 years? Am I right? Yes...from a point of view. Am I wrong? from other points of view, yes.

Here is the group hug momnent. We are all here because we share a common hobby and interest. It may sound soppy but we all enjoy gaming. We aren't the social outcasts that we once were - well some of us still are - but at the end of the day what matters is that we are able to sit down and have an individual experience that we all enjoy in a common hobby. That experience may be shared in MP or by word of mouth recommendations, but it is shared. Something places like this website are designed to promote. The shared experience.

So if we all get out of hand once in a while it is okay. And we all have our preferences. That is fine too. I just draw the line at certain persons - and we know who they are - that enter a thread that is discussing a subject and for no other reason than fanboyism and jealousy, they attack the discussion or worse, posters in the thread. BTW, that wasn't you. In fact you only posed a question. We all know those rabid people.

jeffbax

01-20-2008, 12:15 PM

Pc gaming friends. At least you can replace defective hardware with what you want!

Sure its more expensive but, hey, no hostage holding here!

Umm... Windows holding hostage is even worse than consoles considering its a software jail instead of a hardware one :p
Pff, before you say that they have good customer support, try calling them sometime. All I get are Indian jackasses who have no idea what they're doing, and no authority to give me the help I need.
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