Weekend Boxoffice Chart

[Evil Avatar]

The South rose again at the box office in North America as The Dukes of Hazzard raced to the top in its first weekend of release.

Here is the Weekend Boxoffice Chart for the weekend of August 5th to August 7th.


The Dukes of Hazzard $30.5/$30.5
Wedding Crashers $16.5/$144.0
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory $10.5/$169.0
Sky High $9.0/$32.0
Must Love Dogs $7.4/$26.2
March of the Penguins $7.1/$26.4
Stealth $5.8/$24.4
Fantastic Four $4.0/$143.7
War of the Worlds $3.5/$224.6
The Island $3.1/$30.9
Bad News Bears $2.5/$28.6
Hustle & Flow $2.5/$18.6

[Murmillo]

man.. stealth.. where is it.. I can't even see it. Oh ... is that it. at #7!. LOL

[Commissar Rob]

Wow. There's...uh...a whole lotta crap out there...

And they wonder why the movie industry's in a slump right now...sheesh.

[Vandenh]

The Island is going down in flames as well. Maybe there is still hope for the world?

[XxSATANxX]

Oh god Stealth was crap. Painful to watch.

My kid went to see Dukes. Odd she's 13 never saw the show and liked the movie?

I'm going to march of the penquins!

[Furious Wang]

Oh Jesus. Stealth is losing to March of the Penguins.

And its bad news for the Bad News Bears! Har!

[TrackZero]

That's because Dukes of Hazzard was entertaining. I barely remembered the show from my childhood and I still enjoyed it.

[Heretic Machine]

I was privy to hearing a bunch of red necks on the radio bitching about how their favorite television show got raped by the evil Hollywood execs as I was riding back from my vacation in Tenessee. I think I'll go see it the first chance I get :)

[Ernst_Jager]

Stealth wasn't that bad. Awesome visuals. Sometimes I wonder what the hell some of you expect when you go see a movie like this.

[Kefkataran]

And its bad news for the Bad News Bears! Har!

I feel like I should stand up for this movie since a.) it's my fave director and b.) it's actually really good. That said, I don't think it was at all expected to be a huge summer blockbuster success movie. You can just look at the very low-key marketting campaign to see that.

[Furious Wang]

Stealth wasn't that bad. Awesome visuals. Sometimes I wonder what the hell some of you expect when you go see a movie like this.

Good plot, good acting, funny jokes, characters we care about, good soundtrack. Rampant CGI does not a movie make.

And the whole premise for Stealth was wack from the get go. Robot airplane goes mad because a bolt of lightning hits it? Come on. Designers wouldn't have thought "Hey, its flying in the air! Through clouds! Maybe we should put some electrical shielding on it?"

[XxSATANxX]

Stealth wasn't that bad. Awesome visuals. Sometimes I wonder what the hell some of you expect when you go see a movie like this.


Look I love a good ole evil robot movie just as much as the next guy. This was just painful. At least TOP GUN used real airplanes. The one thing that
did make me laugh was that EDDIE was a music pirate so he could play his own music trax while on a mission.

[bean19]

Stealth wasn't that bad. Awesome visuals. Sometimes I wonder what the hell some of you expect when you go see a movie like this.

I think that we DON'T go to see a movie like this because we know what to expect, and from box office results, other people agree.

It really amazes me that there are people whose jobs are to produce films. . . they spend every day making films that they hope will be box office successes, but then we get a slew of really terrible movies that most people do not want to pay $5-20 to see in a theatre.

*shrugs*

[fitbabits]

Went to see March of the Penguins with my wife yesterday and it was awesome. I cried twice - first time I've done that in the theater since Braveheart.

Right, where's my testicles... [shuffle] Ah, there they are!

[net7runner]

Is anyone else offended that they kept the Confederate Flag on the Hazzard car?

I mean seriously...this is supposed to be a funny movie with some cool action. That has no place there.

[Kefkataran]

Is anyone else offended that they kept the Confederate Flag on the Hazzard car?

I'm mostly just offended by the movie's existence, but I seem to be pretty alone on that one. Heh.

[fitbabits]

Is anyone else offended by the flag that they kept the Confederate Flag on the Hazzard car?

I mean seriously...this is supposed to be a funny movie with some cool action. That has no place there.

I'm sure there are people out there who are (myself included), but what else could they do? Arguably, that stupid flag was as much a part of the show as the actual car was. I live in NC and the amount of cars buzzing around here with the Confederate Flag is really disheartening.

[kickmybum]

The Island is going down in flames as well. Maybe there is still hope for the world?

I loved The Island. Too bad its tanking. Dukes wasn't quality but its good old fun, Jessica Simpson was in it a heck of a lot more than I thought she would be. She was soaking up alot of screen time.

[frederec]

Is anyone else offended that they kept the Confederate Flag on the Hazzard car?

I mean seriously...this is supposed to be a funny movie with some cool action. That has no place there.

Why must it be offensive? Just because the Confederacy is identified with slavery doesn't mean that's all it was about. There's something you need to recognize. History is written by the winners. The south was crushed by the north and never recovered economically. Many southerners have a deep resentment to the north because of this, yet the most yankees tend to think about the south is in the redneck backwoods stereotype.

Racism and slavery are deplorable. However, the civil war was about states rights, not slavery, and southern pride and the Confederate flag don't have to have anything to do with racism either. But history is written by the winners, and the north says that the civil war was about slavery, and that anything favoring the confederacy is promoting racism and slavery. Morality always gets more attention than rights. See the current fiasco about sex and violence in videogames. So that's what people believe.

And with that, I'll bet that no one else will ever want to listen to anything I have to say...

[XxSATANxX]

I mean seriously...this is supposed to be a funny movie with some cool action. That has no place there.

Okay so You'd rather have Underdog minus the super energy pill?

Humphrey Boghardt minus the scenes of him smoking?

The Three Stooges minus the hitting?

For fucks sake the name of the car was THE GENERAL LEE. Uhm although
the flag is addressed in the movie via a clever nod to the POLITICALLY CORRECT police.

I understand not wanting STATE goverment to display the rebel flag as though it were some official icon. I'm okay with it on a car hood.

Might not want to take that ride to the South Side however!

[PantherModern]

Went to see Dukes last night, and I have to say that it was far better than I thought it would be. It's stupid, yes, but ultimately a decent ride. For me, Seann William Scott made the flick. His take on Bo Duke as a guy more in love with his car than any girl was pretty great. As far as the flag thing goes, I remember reading that the filmmakers wanted to take it out, but that DoH "purists" were offended. So, they put it back in, but only under the condition that they Dukes would be in trouble for it. So, after a series of events, the car gets fixed and "Cooter" sticks the flag on the top without the Dukes knowing. It actually leads to some pretty funny scenes.

All in all though, Dukes is the same type of humor as Super Troopers (which is to be expected) and its ilk. If you hate those types of movies, you'll likely hate this.

As for March of the Penguins, everyone should see it. Truly and amazing piece of work.

[superherotaco]

Is anyone else offended that they kept the Confederate Flag on the Hazzard car?

I mean seriously...this is supposed to be a funny movie with some cool action. That has no place there.

I'm not too sure if you're being sarcastic or not. I'm not sure a flag is offensive. I mean it would be like making a movie about the Hindenburg and removing the swastikas from it.

[XxSATANxX]

I'm not too sure if you're being sarcastic or not. I'm not sure a flag is offensive. I mean it would be like making a movie about the Hindenburg and removing the swastikas from it.

Actually A bunch of movies did just that. If you look at the official news reel footage of the Hindenburg disaster you'll notice the NAZI markings have been blacked out.

I do understand being offended by the rebel flag as a state symbol. On some idiots car from a stupid TV show? Yea that swastika has no place in
Hogans hero's!!!

Okay I'm officially guilty of fallin for the troll!
:D

[TheKeck]

So, I keep hearing nothing but good things about March of the Penguins. I suppose I'm going to have to break down and watch it as well.

[net7runner]

Before I begin, I was born and raised in North Carolina. Although having one of the smallest slave populations in the Confederacy, it lost the most men in battle (by far). I routinely see confederate flags on cars, T-shirts, and flying from flag poles.

I'm not too sure if you're being sarcastic or not. I'm not sure a flag is offensive. I mean it would be like making a movie about the Hindenburg and removing the swastikas from it.

The problem is that this movie A). Isn't set in a historical period, and B). Links the flag directly to the main characters

Swaztikas on the Hindenburg would be the same as the Confederate Flag in a Civil War movie. It happened, it's historical fact. Main characters from a (imaginary or historical) storyline could have their actions explained by the society they were raised in.

In this movie, the car is supposed to be totally awesome. It's directly connected with the main characters. The audience is supposed to sympathize and identify with the main characters, and, by association, will have to do so with the Confederate Flag. In other words, the movie is lending tacit support to whatever that flag represents.

Just because the Confederacy is identified with slavery doesn't mean that's all it was about.
Yeah, and just because Playboy is identified with naked women, it doesn't mean that that's all it's about either. I hear they have some great articles.

The south was crushed by the north and never recovered economically.
Noooo...the South didn't have an economy to begin with. They had figured out that they could make mucho dinero off agricultural slave labor, and so that was *all* that they practiced. When it came time for war, they had no factories, and no war industry.

However, the civil war was about states rights, not slavery, and southern pride and the Confederate flag don't have to have anything to do with racism either. But history is written by the winners, and the north says that the civil war was about slavery, and that anything favoring the confederacy is promoting racism and slavery.
Yes, the Civil War was about the southern states' rights to enslave fellow human beings. Or are you saying that you would have preferred it if the Confederacy had won? I might be lording over my very own plantation of slaves right now, isn't that a pleasant thought. (sarcasm)

Might not want to take that ride to the South Side however!
I doubt you'd last long either. Bigot.

Bottom line: the Confederate Flag is culturally and historically linked with slavery. Almost anyone viewing it will be immediately so reminded, and having the main characters of a movie proudly display it is a support of those ideals.

[Deadend]

The whole freeing the slaves thing was added in during the war.

I thought the southen states were angry that they always lost votes because they had much fewer people than the north, so they wanted to do things their way.

To me, the confederate flag is on the cars of racist assholes, which has been backed up by them acting like assholes.

The South lost, they had their economy that was based on slave labor colapse and they continued to treat fellow humans like garbage.

Yeah, sure states rights vs federal, but human rights trump both.

Anyhow, the south controls this country politically, with their hyper-throwback ideas of how the world should be, like back in the good-ole-days with the good-ole-boys. Jackasses, only reason things were better for your ancestor 160 years ago was because he had slave labor.

[Kefkataran]

I thought the southen states were angry that they always lost votes because they had much fewer people than the north, so they wanted to do things their way.

If I'm remembering my American history class from last semester and the lengthy biography of Lincoln that we had to read correctly, that's not really right. There was political tension between the north and south already, but the slavery issue was the straw that broke the camel's back. Regardless of whether or not it's what started it (it can be argued that it's not, although I'd say it was a pretty big part), it ended up becoming the focus by the end on both sides.

[XxSATANxX]

I was born and raised in North Carolina


Yea you had me at "I was born"

[Drinking_Buddy]

I was born raised and still live in South Carolina. Which was the first state to succed from the union and the last state to drop the confederate symbol from it's state house. So I think I am more then qualified to speak on this subject.

What you are going to have to realize is that symbols mean different things to different people. Take the swastika, yes it can stand for Nazism, but is also a Buddist symbol. (I think, its either Buddist or Hindu)

We also need to know that symbols are like cuse words. They only have power if we allow them to have power over us.

Besides, every southern person knows that flying the Confederate flag today does not mean that you are racist. It means that you are a god damn dumb ass redneck, thus makeing it appropite for The Dukes of Hazards.

I have yet to see the movie, but I dought that its about Bo and Duke racing around wearing white cloth and dragging black people from the back of the General Lee.

Speaking of which, I find it funny that nobody has a problem with the car being called the General Lee. A man, who did not own slaves, but did far more to advance the Confederate cause then the flag ever did.

In short: Go watch March of the Pengiuns, and stop worrying about the Confederate flag, that way everybody wins.

[ldi222]

Stealth would have done a lot better if the trailer was better made. That trailer made it look like a total crap movie and it really was pretty good.

[net7runner]

Stealth would have done a lot better if the trailer was better made.About the trailer...does the movie ever explain how the plane coninues to fly without refueling? Don't super-fast fighters have very limited fuel capicities? Made me wonder when watching the trailer...

[bobbler]

I saw The Chumscrubber the other day (friday I think). It was a good movie -- had a hint of Donnie Darko in it (if you liked that movie you'll probably enjoy this one).

It was a frightening portrayal of a suburb where families are so detached that nothing really matters besides their daily routines. It is hard to explain... but it was one of my favorite movies this year.

[ldi222]

About the trailer...does the movie ever explain how the plane coninues to fly without refueling? Don't super-fast fighters have very limited fuel capicities? Made me wonder when watching the trailer...

It does address this in a pretty cool way. Stealth is going to be one of those DVD's people will watch and think "damn, that was a lot better than I thought it was going to be."

[Reanimated]

Is anyone else offended that they kept the Confederate Flag on the Hazzard car?

I mean seriously...this is supposed to be a funny movie with some cool action. That has no place there.



I think I speak for all sane people when I say: Shut. The fuck. Up. You goddamn PC fucktard.

[evilpenguin9000]

I think I'm gonna let the confederate flag debate pass me by, as I do see both sides. I will say that I assume you're racist if I see the confederate flag on your car, but I doubt the Broken Lizard guys meant it that way.

I saw March of the Penguins this weekend and that movie was awesome. I love penguins anyway (note my handle) and Morgan Freeman is a great narrator. See it!

[Kefkataran]

In short: Go watch March of the Pengiuns, and stop worrying about the Confederate flag, that way everybody wins.

Huzzah! I'm buying Drinking Buddy a drink!

[didragondi]

I am probably one of the few to remember the TV show when it came out, but I must say I remember wondering much more about how much of Daisy Dukes Tits and Ass I could see than exactly what the flag on the car represented. Also, the movie came out shortly after the Smokey and the Bandit, and I think it was also more into making the cops look stupid than anything else. As for the latest movies, I had opportunity to see one last week and just decided to bail and play video games. nuff said.

[XxSATANxX]

I think I speak for all sane people when I say: Shut. The fuck. Up. You goddamn PC fucktard.


I think I FINALLY have a sig THANX!

[net7runner]

Must...resist...urge to flame back...

I think I speak for all sane people when I say: Shut. The fuck. Up. You goddamn PC fucktard.That's Mr. PC Fucktard to you!

...racist asshole.

Dammit! Willpower, how can you fail me now?!

[Abash Alarmist]

Must...resist...urge to flame back...

That's Mr. PC Fucktard to you!

...racist asshole.

Dammit! Willpower, how can you fail me now?!

Because it realized that you are a moronic asshole trying to run everybody's life through censorship and your own personal agenda? Yeah..Sounds good.

[XxSATANxX]

Does anybody have something bad to say about Penquins?

[net7runner]

Because it realized that you are a moronic asshole trying to run everybody's life through censorship and your own personal agenda?Yeah, but I can't fit Moronic Asshole Trying to Run Everybody's Life Through Censorship And My Own Personal Agenda on my business card. Guess I'm going to have to stick with Mr. PC Fucktard....

In other news, I have decided to inaugurate my censorship campaign with the announcement of its new slogan: "Shut. The fuck. Up." I can't remember where I heard it before, but it's perfect....

[Furious Wang]

Yeah, and just because Playboy is identified with naked women, it doesn't mean that that's all it's about either. I hear they have some great articles.

Noooo...the South didn't have an economy to begin with. They had figured out that they could make mucho dinero off agricultural slave labor, and so that was *all* that they practiced. When it came time for war, they had no factories, and no war industry.

I doubt you'd last long either. Bigot.

Bottom line: the Confederate Flag is culturally and historically linked with slavery. Almost anyone viewing it will be immediately so reminded, and having the main characters of a movie proudly display it is a support of those ideals.

The Civil War was not about slavery. Do some research aside from your 9th grade liberalized history textbook. If Lincoln cared so much about the slaves, why did he promise them reparations and then fail to deliver?

Ending slavery was a moral justification proposed midway through an unpopular war. Similar to how our current purpose in Iraq is to spread Freedom and Democracy. The Emancipation Proclomation was made 2 years into the war and didn't even apply to the 4 Union border states that still supported slavery.

The North declared war on the South because the North's wonderful economy full of railroads and factories would have crumpled without the agricultural might of the Confederate states. The North commited unspeakable acts of horror (see the burning of Atlanta, raping of anything that moved, etc.) against Dixie.


Yes, the Civil War was about the southern states' rights to enslave fellow human beings. Or are you saying that you would have preferred it if the Confederacy had won? I might be lording over my very own plantation of slaves right now, isn't that a pleasant thought. (sarcasm)


Actually, if the Confederacy had won then America would probably be a communist nation by this point. Marxism would have taken root in the slaves and aristocracy would have been overthrown. In the end its certainly better that the North won, but that doesn't give one an excuse to eat up revisionist history as fact.

Oh yeah, and I'm a liberal democrat.

[net7runner]

Furious Wang, we can debate history until we're dead...my point is that, whatever the Confederate Flag* might have represented historically, it is now irrevocably linked with the ideals of slavery. And any movie that presents modern main characters proudly displaying such an icon is itself, however tacitly or subtly, supporting the ideals that that icon represents.

Simple enough? If you want to claim that when the average US citizen looks at the Confederate Flag they think of something other than slavery, racism, and ignorance, then this conversation had better end right here because we're never going to agree.

*technically, it's the Navy Jack. The true Confederate Flag is another flag altogether, but this one looks the prettiest, so it eventually replaced the original in the minds of most of America.

PS: I'm going home for the day, so I'm afraid further flames will go unanswered. Sorry to disappoint.

[MosBen]

Actually, I'd say that this particular use of the Confederate flag, or Navy Jack if you like, would represent that these guys are so dumb/out of touch with mainstream values that they don't understand what the flag means to most people *today*.

[Ernst_Jager]

Stealth is one of those movies that people will see and flame but if they took a few minutes and watched it for what it is they might actually like many parts of it. Some people think they are either to cool or to intelligent to enjoy a mindless action movie.
Only mind numbling boring indy films for me!

Of course I do realize everyone is has their own opinion, but I hate it when people whine and moan how bad a movie is but they went and watched it anyway. Either they are totally inable to judge a movie based on it's trailers or just need an excuse to bitch. I bet half the people that review it haven't even seen it. When I left the theater I didn't over hear one person complain about it (out of say 80-100 people) and actually heard quite a few people say scene so and so was really good.

[Cupelix]

Ending slavery was a moral justification proposed midway through an unpopular war. To be more accurate, the truth is that morality was never the true purpose of emancipation. Emancipation ruined the South's economy, plain and simple. No economy == no war. Freeing slaves (who then could actually fight for the North) was actually a shrewd method of warfare. This is an unfortunate truth that history does tend to idealize and gloss over because it is fairly unpleasant and unsettling to admit.

[didragondi]

MMM. In regard to my previous post, did they completely change the movie and make it a social commentary? Or is it still about watching hot women and making cops look stupid? The movie did not sound that great in the first place, but if its now a social commentary, it sounds much worse. Although I did get a chuckle out of the fool defending the right to represent the confederate flag when he could not spell the word 'doubt'. THanks for that.

[XxSATANxX]

Yeah, but I can't fit Moronic Asshole Trying to Run Everybody's Life Through Censorship And My Own Personal Agenda on my business card.

Small type?

[Kefkataran]

Because it realized that you are a moronic asshole trying to run everybody's life through censorship and your own personal agenda? Yeah..Sounds good.

Admittedly, I'm not bothered by the flag thing. That said, I think there's a pretty big difference from him trying to censor something and him simply saying it bothered him a little.

[superherotaco]

Well my major point is that the car is called "The General Lee", the flag fits, I mean, he was a confederate.

Personally when I see a confederate flag I don't imedately think "Slavery", I usally just think "Trashy southern people".

[Ghost_Saint]

The most ironic thing is to see BOTH the Confederate and American flags in the Redneck pickup truck. I've seen it before myself. Those Confederates sure do love that sponsor of worldwide freedom GW Bush. Who can blame 'em?

But!!! Go ready "How Few Remain, The Great War: American Front, and The Great War: A Walk in Hell" By Harry Turrtledove. He's got some neat ideas of what might have happened if the south had won.

[Furious Wang]

Furious Wang, we can debate history until we're dead...my point is that, whatever the Confederate Flag* might have represented historically, it is now irrevocably linked with the ideals of slavery.


It is linked with the ideals of slavery because people such as yourself have brainwashed the population into linking slavery with the flag. People who display the flag do so in opposition to your revisionism. The flag stands for one thing: State Rights. States chose to freely enter the Republic with the promise as stated in the Constitution that the state (not the federal government) shall be the supreme authority over all happenings within that state. When the federal government chose to disregard the Constitution and began to impose its will over state governments those states had every right to withdraw from the Union.

When the victor of the unjust war that followed tries to revise history and say "No no no. It wasn't about state rights. It was about slavery." and equates the Navy Jack with slavery and lynching and the KKK and racism and bigotry you would have the population lie down without objection because others have believed the lie?

Many in the south had great grandparents who fought and died in defense of that ideal or simply to defend their homes from invaders from the north. They would honor and remember their nobility while you in your self righteousness would have them forget because someone might be wrongly offended.

[Kefkataran]

It is linked with the ideals of slavery because people such as yourself have brainwashed the population into linking slavery with the flag. People who display the flag do so in opposition to your revisionism. The flag stands for one thing: State Rights.

I'm gonna go ahead and point out how wrong both of you are. He's saying "The flag stands for one thing only: Slavery!" and you're saying "The flag stands for one thing only: States rights!" when it's obvious that it stands for different things to different people. That's how symbols work. Arguing which one it stands for "the most" is pretty pointless, really. Especially on a videogame website on the net. :)

I mean obviously it's going to mean something completely different for someone who had an ancestor who fought and died for the South in the Civil War than it is for a black person who had ancestors who were slaves. And we should be able to understand both views as they both make sense.

[pomeroy]

If you see the movie, the main characters aren't "proudly displaying" anything...it's stuck on there by the mechanic without their knowing and they are embarrassed by it. But please, by all means, continue...

[51|RandoM]

Is anyone else offended that they kept the Confederate Flag on the Hazzard car?

I mean seriously...this is supposed to be a funny movie with some cool action. That has no place there.

Uh, why doesn't it? My high school mascot is the "rebel" and we still have confederate flags.

...it isn't just about slavery, you know?


hahah, look at stealth though, that flop cost $110 million dollars. Sony Pictures is f*cked this year.

[Kelegacy]

You Southerners are all infidels! You and your deep fried foods and biscuits/gravy should all burn!


kidding

[Testcase]

I'm fine with the flag in the movie. *shrug* I'm fine with people displaying it on their trucks, homes, t-shirts, whatever. Hell, tattoo it to your forehead if you want.

Ain't freedom grand?

[Drinking_Buddy]

Kelegacy, dont make me burn a cross in your front yard. You damn godless yankee!

Kidding, of course.

[Kefkataran]

Kelegacy, dont make me burn a cross in your front yard. You damn godless yankee!

Kidding, of course.

Damn. I was gonna offer to come with.

[Imelman]

God, I hate the Confederate flag almost as much as I hate black people and all this racism talk is making me want to punch a jew in the face. It's a shame that certain symbols have to forever be brandished with negativity just because a certain group of people did terrible things while displaying it. The swastika used to be a symbol of strength, power, and good luck (of course that's why Hitler used it as his symbol) but now it's a sign of hate and death. As for the confederate flag, I should start a charity to help inner city children and make the flag my emblem. Maybe then people won't be so offended and true biggots will stop putting the flag on things because it won't mean what it once did. But then the meaning behind symbols are never changed by acts of goodwill are they?

Besides racism is about treating certain people differently than others based on superficial standards. That way if you like one kind of person you have to like every kind of person equally or your a racist. That's why I hate everyone equally including myself.

Anyway, people should stop saying positive things about Stealth, because that offends me and I am now bound and determined to see March of the Penguines due in no small part to the testimony of many of you.

[XxSATANxX]

I am now bound and determined to see March of the Penguines due in no small part to the testimony of many of you.

Damn Penguin lover

[B_Money]

Does anybody have something bad to say about Penquins?

I hate penguins so much, always dressed in little tuxedos like elist bastards. They think they're so great, always strutting around, but what kind of loser bird has wings but can't fly?

[AbeLincoln]

To be more accurate, the truth is that morality was never the true purpose of emancipation. Emancipation ruined the South's economy, plain and simple. No economy == no war. Freeing slaves (who then could actually fight for the North) was actually a shrewd method of warfare. This is an unfortunate truth that history does tend to idealize and gloss over because it is fairly unpleasant and unsettling to admit.
You're only half right there. I'm going to get my history major out (see the nick?) and say that the emancipation proclamation had more to do with foreign policy than anything else. The south was courting Britan to come in as an ally because they could supply Britan's textile industry (industrial revolution was stronger in Britan than anywhere else at the time) with cotton and thereby gain money to buy the things they could not manufacture. With emancipation though Britan had no way to explain to it's working class citizens why they were coming in on the side of a war that supported slavery. There was also plenty of cotton on the market from other sources so Britan stayed out of it rather than risk an angry working class. I've read that Lincoln probably had the emacipation proclamation written and was just waiting for a Union victory to lend it some clout which is why it was issued after the Battle of Antietam, so it wasn't really meant as moral justification or to get slaves to fight for the union or he would have issued it anytime. It was foreign policy.

Well that was long and completly off topic but I needed to say it. Penguins huh? I'll have to check that out.

[B_Money]

You're only half right there. I'm going to get my history major out (see the nick?) and say that the emancipation proclamation had more to do with foreign policy than anything else. The south was courting Britan to come in as an ally because they could supply Britan's textile industry (industrial revolution was stronger in Britan than anywhere else at the time) with cotton and thereby gain money to buy the things they could not manufacture. With emancipation though Britan had no way to explain to it's working class citizens why they were coming in on the side of a war that supported slavery. There was also plenty of cotton on the market from other sources so Britan stayed out of it rather than risk an angry working class. I've read that Lincoln probably had the emacipation proclamation written and was just waiting for a Union victory to lend it some clout which is why it was issued after the Battle of Antietam, so it wasn't really meant as moral justification or to get slaves to fight for the union or he would have issued it anytime. It was foreign policy.

Well that was long and completly off topic but I needed to say it. Penguins huh? I'll have to check that out.


This is a nice assessment of why Lincoln wrote the Emancipation procomiation (I guess you wouldk now, huh?) but let's not forget that if not for slavery, the South wouldn't have seceded in the first place. Yes it was about State's rights verses the US Government, but the right they seceded to protect was the right to keep thier slaves in bondage.

[Drinking_Buddy]

Well, atlest I am not working for Jews.

[AbeLincoln]

This is a nice assessment of why Lincoln wrote the Emancipation procomiation (I guess you wouldk now, huh?) but let's not forget that if not for slavery, the South wouldn't have seceded in the first place. Yes it was about State's rights verses the US Government, but the right they seceded to protect was the right to keep thier slaves in bondage.

I agree, it's not at all like it had nothing to do with slavery. For the real origins of the war, you have to go all the way back to when to when the declaration and constitution were written. Which is a long and messy process I didn't/don't want to get into as I won't get any credit for it.

[Kefkataran]

I'm glad Mr. Lincoln decided to join us in weighing in on the Civil War.

[Kelegacy]

I'm glad Mr. Lincoln decided to join us in weighing in on the Civil War.

I don't get it.

[AbeLincoln]

I don't get it.

/me waves at Kelegacy

[Kelegacy]

/me waves at Kelegacy

Still don't...

Hey, WAIT!

...uhh, nope, still dont get it.

[Kefkataran]

Still don't...

Hey, WAIT!

...uhh, nope, still dont get it.

You're pulling my act.

[net7runner]

Battle of the K's!


....fight....

[Imelman]

Damn Penguin lover

I'm sorry, they just taste so good. Chopped and sauteed with a light garlic butter sauce the meat just melts in your mouth. It's like a cross between fish and chicken. Really tasty. Now I'm hungry but all I have is leftover baby. Sweet tender baby. Oh well, it'll have to do.

By the way, the above is totally true. I eat penguines and babies. Really.

[Kelegacy]

You're pulling my act.

HAHA! You figured me out. That was my impression of Kefkataran!! ;)

[Roc Ingersol]

I wouldn't mind 'The Island' doing so poorly. Really, it's not all that good.
But what it is, is head and shoulders above anything Bay's done in the past.
I can't believe the market is actually punishing him for trying.
They're gonna get Bad Boys 3, with double the huge dead fake tits, and they're gonna lap it up.

[Furious Wang]

I'm gonna go ahead and point out how wrong both of you are. He's saying "The flag stands for one thing only: Slavery!" and you're saying "The flag stands for one thing only: States rights!" when it's obvious that it stands for different things to different people. That's how symbols work. Arguing which one it stands for "the most" is pretty pointless, really. Especially on a videogame website on the net. :)

I mean obviously it's going to mean something completely different for someone who had an ancestor who fought and died for the South in the Civil War than it is for a black person who had ancestors who were slaves. And we should be able to understand both views as they both make sense.

The meaning of a symbol is posited by the user of the symbol. Not by an ill informed third party's erroneous interpretation.

[AbeLincoln]

Bear in mind I haven't seen 'The Island' but the trailers made it look like a new version of the MST3K classic 'Parts: The Clonus Horror' I swear somebody pitched the same idea but because we all know about cloning now it got a budget. Anyone ever see that episode or know what I'm talking about?

[Kefkataran]

The meaning of a symbol is posited by the user of the symbol. Not by an ill informed third party's erroneous interpretation.

Anyone who takes part in viewing the symbol can create their own meaning. Some will be more valid than others, but they all happen. Might as well accept that fact of life/psychology instead of complaining about how it shouldn't be so.

[Furious Wang]

This is a nice assessment of why Lincoln wrote the Emancipation procomiation (I guess you wouldk now, huh?) but let's not forget that if not for slavery, the South wouldn't have seceded in the first place. Yes it was about State's rights verses the US Government, but the right they seceded to protect was the right to keep thier slaves in bondage.

They would have seceded anyway, actually. It wasn't just about slaves. *Do some research*

>>
Between the years 1800 and 1860, arguments between the North and South grew more intense. One of the main quarrels was about taxes paid on goods brought into this country from foreign countries. This tax was called a tariff.

As industry in the North expanded it looked towards southern markets, rich with cash from the lucrative agricultural business, to buy the North's manufactured goods. However, it was often cheaper for the South to purchase the goods abroad. In order to "protect" the northern industries Jackson slapped a tariff on many of the imported goods that could be manufactured in the North. When South Carolina passed the Ordinance of Nullification in November 1832, refusing to collect the tariff and threatening to withdraw from the Union, Jackson ordered federal troops to Charleston.

Taxes were also placed on many Southern goods that were shipped to foreign countries, an expense that was not always applied to Northern goods of equal value. An awkward economic structure allowed states and private transportation companies to do this, which also affected Southern banks that found themselves paying higher interest rates on loans made with banks in the North. The situation grew worse after several "panics", including one in 1857 that affected more Northern banks than Southern. Southern financiers found themselves burdened with high payments just to save Northern banks that had suffered financial losses through poor investment.

In the years before the Civil War the political power in the Federal government, centered in Washington, D.C., was changing. Northern and mid-western states were becoming more and more powerful as the populations increased and new states were added to the Union. Southern states lost political power because the population did not increase as rapidly. As one portion of the nation grew larger than another, people began to talk of the nation as sections. This was called sectionalism. Just as the original thirteen colonies fought for their independence almost 100 years earlier, the Southern states felt a growing need for freedom from the central Federal authority in Washington. Southerners believed that state laws carried more weight than Federal laws, and they should abide by the state regulations first. This issue was called State's Rights and became a very warm topic in congress.
>>

It was about money and political power. Thanks to the invention of the cotton gin the South was growing very very rich. This would have occured with or without slavery. In fact, while pre-cotton gin slave conditions were horrid, post-cotton gin slave conditions were actually quite preferable to living conditions of factory and mine workers or many in the North. While no justification for slavery, it is still a fact that should be taken into account.

As the South grew rich, the high society of the North grew threatened. They imposed tariffs designed to economically weaken the South. They began adding new northern states to the Union to increase the total number of congressional representatives thus marginalizing Southern senators and influence in Congress. Manipulation of the electoral system destroyed any hopes of electing a southerner to the Presidency.

Were it not for the intervention of the northern aristocracy, the south would have eventually grown rich enough to overtake them through legitimate capitalistic means.

By the 1850s, the South had no political sway whatsoever in the federal government and one half of the nation was actually conspiring to prevent the other half from accumulating wealth.

Faced with this, it is easy to see why they seceded.

[Furious Wang]

Anyone who takes part in viewing the symbol can create their own meaning. Some will be more valid than others, but they all happen. Might as well accept that fact of life/psychology instead of complaining about how it shouldn't be so.

Wow. You are way off target and you're missing the entire point of the debate.

This isn't a case of relativism. This is a case where one person has a wholly inaccurate understanding of a symbol/meaning relationship due to the propagation of an agenda-laden lie and a lack of knowledge of historical fact.

The matter at hand is not open to interpretation. Opposing viewpoints hold no validity if they are not factual accurate in any way.. Let us use an analogy:

Bob and Joe come across a block of cheese. They both sample the cheese. Bob thinks the cheese tastes good. Joe thinks the cheese tastes bad. Both are valid viewpoints according to their own personal tastes. Bob and Joe continue on their way.

Bob and Joe come across another block of cheese. They both sample the cheese. Bob knows his cheeses. Bob says the cheese is cheddar. Joe disagrees. Joe says the cheese is concrete. Joe is clearly wrong. Just because Joe think the cheese is concrete doesn't give validity to his opinion.

[Kefkataran]

This is a case where one person has a wholly inaccurate understanding of a symbol/meaning relationship due to the propagation of an agenda-laden lie and a lack of knowledge of historical fact.

Regardless of whether or not the Civil War was started due to slavery, slavery DID become a focus of the war and what it was most known for. Thus the symbol of the South during the war has become associated with slavery. Regardless of how valid this association is or how much you like it, it makes sense that people would make this association. Symbols and ideologies are not the same thing as... blocks of cheese. They are always open to interpretation for the very fact that they are not solid. Others on this thread may not have as strong of a knowledge of history of you, but there are still obvious reasons for why they view the symbol of the Confederate flag as they do, and it is a SYMBOL, thus it is relative. Symbols are relative.

[XxSATANxX]

*cue Homer Simpson voice*

Ummmmmm cheeezzeeeee!

[B_Money]

Bear in mind I haven't seen 'The Island' but the trailers made it look like a new version of the MST3K classic 'Parts: The Clonus Horror' I swear somebody pitched the same idea but because we all know about cloning now it got a budget. Anyone ever see that episode or know what I'm talking about?

I saw that episode, and I'm sure that Michael Bay ripped off the plot of Clonus. I hope Rhino takes adavantage of the situation and releases the episode in the next MST3K compilation.