PS3 May Get 2x Or Faster BluRay Drive

[Oddmaker]

Seems the PS3 will get 2x BluRay Drives for thier launch which can read disks upto 4MBytes/sec to 9MBytes/sec.

Blu-ray, along with the competing HD-DVD format, is set to hit retail markets at the end of this year. Blu-ray's ace in the hole is no doubt the PlayStation 3 though, launching sometime during Spring 2006, roughly four to six months after the format first emerges.

As was the case with CD and DVD drives, the first, minimum speed of players and disc drives will be 1X. The Blu-ray spec puts this at 36Mbps. It usually takes a few months or so before 2X drives hit, then a little more time for 4X and so forth. Because of this usual timeline, it was generally assumed that the PlayStation 3 would be using a 1X drive, with an outside chance at 2X.

Go read the full story over at IGN (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/638/638676p1.html)

[51|RandoM]

data has a tendency to grow to fit the pipe, regardless of how big the pipe is, especially when the programmers are running wild.

Load times won't be any shorter, they'll just be pulling significantly more data(HD vs SD, for example).

[holysin]

32Mbps is actually 4MBytes/sec
72Mbps would be 9MBytes/sec

[TRiLoGY]

data has a tendency to grow to fit the pipe, regardless of how big the pipe is, especially when the programmers are running wild.

Load times won't be any shorter, they'll just be pulling significantly more data(HD vs SD, for example).

Yeah, I think I agree with you there! :)

[Xerxes]

lol... Microsoft and Toshiba shake hands and takes one picture together... 1 month later...

[Furious Wang]

That's odd. blue-ray.com has the 1x transfer rate as 54 Mb/s. Ign says 36 Mb/s.

And poster, please be aware of the differences between Mb and MB and edit your comment accordingly.

And poster number 1 is right. There will always be loading times.

[Paltry]

data has a tendency to grow to fit the pipe, regardless of how big the pipe is, especially when the programmers are running wild.

Load times won't be any shorter, they'll just be pulling significantly more data(HD vs SD, for example).


if thats the case than what about the 360. If its only going to use traditional dvds what does that say?

[Mrbunchypants]

Does it really matter how fast it can read off the disc? IF the PS3 can use that much data and keep up the streeming then it's good. If not.... well thats going to suck.

I'm going to assume that Blu-ray will have a read buffer to help with minor vibrations.

[51|RandoM]

if thats the case than what about the 360. If its only going to use traditional dvds what does that say?

it says they better cache their games on the 20 gig hard drive?

[EvilBob46]

How exactly, in regular MBs per second, does a 2x Blue Ray drive compare to the drive of the Xbox?

From my reading it would appear to be quite a bit faster.

[Oddmaker]

Your wishs have come true! moaning *beep* *beep* :P

[holysin]

If I'm not mistaken, current 16x DVD-R drives go at 20MB/s. That's pretty high compared to blu-ray's 1x 36Mbps/4MB/s.

or maybe I'm wrong..

[kokyunage]

it says they better cache their games on the 20 gig hard drive?

Yeah, that worked on the PC all that well. Xbox360 will have loading times, just reduced loading times if it caches it's data to the harddrive.

[Xerxes]

Or maybe have certain aspects compressed that download on to the hard drive, unravel itself for in game play... Although sooner or later we'd have to clean this stuff out... But that would take a heck of a load time for the first boot of a game...

[Kamalot]

If I'm not mistaken, current 16x DVD-R drives go at 20MB/s. That's pretty high compared to blu-ray's 1x 36Mbps/4MB/s.

or maybe I'm wrong..

Nope, you are right.

A 1x DVD is slower than a 1X Bluray drive.

A 12x DVD is faster than a 2X Bluray drive.

With the Xbox caching games to the HD, load times will be even less.

With the same game on both consoles, the PS3 version will be slower to load. The 2nd time you play, it will be MUCH faster on the Xbox 360 since the game will have been cached on the HD. It will take the same amount of time to load on the PS3 (no hard drive for game caching).

Every time Sony speaks, the PS3 dies a little more.

[Paltry]

no shit

why is sony fucking around wtih blue ray

i cant imagine even a single game needing all the space they are providing

and even if one does why couldnt it just be put on 2 dvds

[Dirty Harry]

Hah, kam once again you continue to become dull in my eyes. If everyone here is such business fucking experts, then why are you not working for sony/mircosoft?, thats fucking right because you are not fucking experts in anything even closely related to this "conversation". Fuck you think a butcher askes his mechanic how to cut a rack of ribs?.

[Ludoc]

Or maybe have certain aspects compressed that download on to the hard drive, unravel itself for in game play... Although sooner or later we'd have to clean this stuff out... But that would take a heck of a load time for the first boot of a game...

Sounds an awful lot like installing games on a PC.

[TrackZero]

How exactly, in regular MBs per second, does a 2x Blue Ray drive compare to the drive of the Xbox?

From my reading it would appear to be quite a bit faster.

Don't confuse maximum read time with seek time. The numbers being given for blu-ray's speed are assuming you're loading the data all in a row on the disc (heh, which unless you're watching a movie, doesn't really happen, ever), that it's also on the inner track of the disc and no imperfections on the disc at happen over time. Regardless, it's still fast.

The problem comes in with seek time, which is what games do, a lot. Games want their data and it's almost always stored out of order, so the drive has to "seek" out that next bit of data it needs and where it is on the disk. In that case keeping the amount of data smaller/compressed and just having a solid drive is a good choice (what the 360 is doing) as well as caching on the local hard drive since it has superior seek time (which the 360 is doing).

It's a case of Sony throwing big numbers around that really don't mean anything to your gaming experience, except they can store more higher-res textures and movies at the cost of slower load times. While Microsoft has gone the other route of making your games load faster at the possible cost of content. Though, IMHO, developers are fine with 9GB for this next gen, unless they're lazy with compression or they're over-guessing what hardware people will be running this on...most of us will NOT be using 1080p this generation and won't need the texture sizes they'd like to throw on the disc (it's easier for them to leave them at original size on the disc and re-size per system, less work for them, they can assume 'best-case-scenario' at the cost of our load times).

Pick your poison.

[Furious Wang]

Hah, kam once again you continue to become dull in my eyes. If everyone here is such business fucking experts, then why are you not working for sony/mircosoft?, thats fucking right because you are not fucking experts in anything even closely related to this "conversation". Fuck you think a butcher askes his mechanic how to cut a rack of ribs?.

Anyone who has to lace their arguments with "Fuck yous" & "Shut the fuck ups" has already lost. Something you should learn.

And thank you, Dirty Harry, for GameFaqing the EA forum. Its really appreciated.

[bobbler]

Why can't IGN get the speeds right?

How many times do we need to go over this. Write speed is 36Mbit/s per 1x. Read speed is 54Mbit/s per 1x. DVD read speed is ~11Mbit/s per 1x.

It would take around ~2.4x BR read speed to match 12x DVD read -- 2.4x isn't exactly out of the realm possibility. Anyways, seek times often matter a lot more than transfer speeds, and that has more to do with the position of data on the disc (and redundant data).

[kathode]

Hah, kam once again you continue to become dull in my eyes. If everyone here is such business fucking experts, then why are you not working for sony/mircosoft?, thats fucking right because you are not fucking experts in anything even closely related to this "conversation". Fuck you think a butcher askes his mechanic how to cut a rack of ribs?.
Actually kam is correct, and TrackZero further fleshed it out. What the hell is the point of this flame?

[balamoor]

Sorry I just don't see this alone Kicking the 360's ass. Possible delay in shipment (2007) the whole Hard Drive fiasco.... I think Sony is second-guessing themselves right out of the market.

[Kamalot]

I think Sony is second-guessing themselves right out of the market.
You know, that's the best description I've heard yet.

[bobbler]

Wow, it seems as though IGN is actually correct -- While emailing one of the IGN guys, we got into a debate about it, linking each other PDFs and it seems the standard spec for blu-ray is 36Mbit/s for read AND write.

The 54mbit/s number comes from the standard movie read speed, which is 1.5x (needs to be 50+mbit/s because of the encoding rate of HD video -- 48mbit/s or so). Looking at the PDF states that the disc velocity for 1x reference speed is like 4.9m/s and that the 54mbit/s movie read speed is 7.36m/s. 1.5x 4.9 = 7.36. 1.5x 36 = 54. It is easy to come to the conclusion that read speeds are 54mbit/s reading through the various PDFs, if you aren't careful.

Shame on me for not actually reading things carefully while spouting stuff out. It would take a 4x BD to match a 12x DVD. Seems BR is semi off limits for games unless they carefully make sure seek times are taken care of (which I suppose the extra space on the disc would be helpful for that -- but many developers don't bother optimizing the disc, sadly). I would expect a 2-3x BR drive and a 12x DVD drive still, regardless of finding out the actual speed of BR.

[Goronmon]

Every time Sony speaks, the PS3 dies a little more.
Quoted for truth.

I swear, the more I hear about the PS3, the more expensive it seems to get and the less I care about what it can do.

[51|RandoM]

Ignore the hype, wait for the games.

[Goronmon]

Ignore the hype, wait for the games.
Its hard to ignore when Sony is the one pushing for all this crap that I don't care about.

[Dirty Harry]

Anyone who has to lace their arguments with "Fuck yous" & "Shut the fuck ups" has already lost. Something you should learn.

And thank you, Dirty Harry, for GameFaqing the EA forum. Its really appreciated.
One could defiantly say the same thing about you and your childish flaming. If you have a problem with swearing i hope you buck up nancy boy, swearing happens just like this shit post of yours. You don't see me running around like my head was cut off like a chicken every time someone swears or uses language that offends me.

The fact that you have no qualification makes your opinion just as shit as my own opinion. There are plenty of reasons to flame you and your support for the x360 but i give you the same respect everyone else should get, the same i expect from you. Stop being such a little cock boy.


One more thing Wang, what makes your opinion correct over my opinion?

[NACIONAL]

.... Stop being such a little cock boy.....

....One more thing Wang,....

Oh my .. oh my...

I'm partially blind after reading this post...

[Phades]

One could defiantly say the same thing about you and your childish flaming. If you have a problem with swearing i hope you buck up nancy boy, swearing happens just like this shit post of yours. You don't see me running around like my head was cut off like a chicken every time someone swears or uses language that offends me.

The fact that you have no qualification makes your opinion just as shit as my own opinion. There are plenty of reasons to flame you and your support for the x360 but i give you the same respect everyone else should get, the same i expect from you. Stop being such a little cock boy.


One more thing Wang, what makes your opinion correct over my opinion?

Perhaps because his is written in a more intelligent and less "I live in a dumpster" fashion?

[51|RandoM]

Its hard to ignore when Sony is the one pushing for all this crap that I don't care about.

It is easy to ignore. You just don't really want to ignore it.

Until the games are on the shelf, the press releases are little more than fodder for idle gaming site/forum surfing..

[Goronmon]

It is easy to ignore. You just don't really want to ignore it.

Until the games are on the shelf, the press releases are little more than fodder for idle gaming site/forum surfing..
I do want to hear about how the PS3 is progressing in relation to its gaming capabilities, unfortunately, that means I have to wade through the non-gaming info as well.

[rein]

Oh my .. oh my...

I'm partially blind after reading this post...


You know what (http://www.religioustolerance.org/masturba.htm) causes blindness don't you?

Wang and Cock boy. It sounds like a super hero duo.

As far as this whole debate.... ...who cares.. None of us know what the real-llife performance of these systems are going to be yet. I honestly don't care as long as I can play me some games. Generation after generation these debates (http://gameads.gamepressure.com/tv_game_commercial.asp?ID=2581) rage on and they accomplish nothing.

[Kamalot]

You don't see me running around like my head was cut off like a chicken every time someone swears or uses language that offends me.
Apparently, you don't need a valid reason to act like that. :D

[if76]

Ok then it's official. PS3 will have slower load times than X360.

Thus I will be getting an X360.

[NACIONAL]

Ok then it's official. PS3 will have slower load times than X360.

We don't know that with current info. Besides, part of the load performance is due to the developers....

[Dirty Harry]

Apparently, you don't need a valid reason to act like that. :D
<3?, anyways lets just drop this shit and when it comes out then we can bash it, just like the good ol days of the 32x\segacd days. If you think about it, i really wonder what people said about the 32x from sega, man or even the virtual boy.


Secondly, there aint nothing wrong with living in a dumpster bin, home is where the heart is they say.

[Furious Wang]

One could defiantly say the same thing about you and your childish flaming. If you have a problem with swearing i hope you buck up nancy boy, swearing happens just like this shit post of yours. You don't see me running around like my head was cut off like a chicken every time someone swears or uses language that offends me.

The fact that you have no qualification makes your opinion just as shit as my own opinion. There are plenty of reasons to flame you and your support for the x360 but i give you the same respect everyone else should get, the same i expect from you. Stop being such a little cock boy.


One more thing Wang, what makes your opinion correct over my opinion?

Wow, I kinda feel sorry for you. There's only a few life events I can think of that would make a person as consistantly hostile as you and they aren't happy thoughts.

First, I have no problem with swearing. I swear quite a bit. Fuck. See? I just did it. Donkey Raping Shit Eater. Whoops! I did it again! The thing I take issue with is you swearing at others. The "Fuck yous" and "Shut the fuck ups" and "cock boys". There's no justification for that.

The point of debate is, of course, to sway someone of an opposing viewpoint to your own. Grammar that would make a 5th grader frown at you won't do that. Peppering your argument with invective won't do that. The person will immediately become defensive and will not take any notice of your opinion. So your post then becomes pointless and is nothing but you raging aimlessly and projecting anger onto others. This causes observers to view you as an adolescent - unworthy of respect or regard.

And as for "qualifications", does a computer engineering degree from Vanderbilt University and 3 years in the industry grant me allowance to minor speculation on the state of console gaming electronics?

Oh, and this is my favorite:
There are plenty of reasons to flame you and your support for the x360 but i give you the same respect everyone else should get, the same i expect from you. Stop being such a little cock boy.

Seriously, can you comprehend how blatantly you are contradicting yourself here?

If you want respect from people then respect them. Stop telling them "Fuck you" and "Shut the fuck up". There's nothing more disrespectful.

Take mister_slim. There's no one I love arguing with more. His posts are well written and generally on the mark. He doesn't resort to "Fuck yous". And I respect him.

And to close:

One more thing Wang, what makes your opinion correct over my opinion?

Well, for one thing, you don't really state one. You just start swearing at people. What was your opinion in this thread? I'm right, you're wrong, neiner? That's really not an opinion.

[Paltry]

dirty harry... did your boyfreind dump you or somin

your being a huge dick

[Dirty Harry]

Wow, I kinda feel sorry for you. There's only a few life events I can think of that would make a person as consistantly hostile as you and they aren't happy thoughts.

First, I have no problem with swearing. I swear quite a bit. Fuck. See? I just did it. Donkey Raping Shit Eater. Whoops! I did it again! The thing I take issue with is you swearing at others. The "Fuck yous" and "Shut the fuck ups" and "cock boys". There's no justification for that.

The point of debate is, of course, to sway someone of an opposing viewpoint to your own. Grammar that would make a 5th grader frown at you won't do that. Peppering your argument with invective won't do that. The person will immediately become defensive and will not take any notice of your opinion. So your post then becomes pointless and is nothing but you raging aimlessly and projecting anger onto others. This causes observers to view you as an adolescent - unworthy of respect or regard.

And as for "qualifications", does a computer engineering degree from Vanderbilt University and 3 years in the industry grant me allowance to minor speculation on the state of console gaming electronics?

Oh, and this is my favorite:


Seriously, can you comprehend how blatantly you are contradicting yourself here?

If you want respect from people then respect them. Stop telling them "Fuck you" and "Shut the fuck up". There's nothing more disrespectful.

Take mister_slim. There's no one I love arguing with more. His posts are well written and generally on the mark. He doesn't resort to "Fuck yous". And I respect him.

And to close:


Well, for one thing, you don't really state one. You just start swearing at people. What was your opinion in this thread? I'm right, you're wrong, neiner? That's really not an opinion.
Maybe im just intentionally being an asshole to you and giving you flamebait? did you ever think of that?, how long did you bother with that reply?, i would suppose more than 5 minutes of your life wasted on inane babble. hurrah <3 anyways lets not fight baby, im thinking of making a team change this generation anyways.

[mister_slim]

Take mister_slim. There's no one I love arguing with more. His posts are well written and generally on the mark. He doesn't resort to "Fuck yous". And I respect him.

Why would you do a foolish thing like that?

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Wow, I kinda feel sorry for you. There's only a few life events I can think of that would make a person as consistantly hostile as you and they aren't happy thoughts.

Don't waste the keystrokes. There are people out there who like nothing better than to get a reaction out of others.

Now I have definitely disagreed with you (and you with me) and I think I called you a fanboy once or twice. But DirtyHarry is a different kind of animal. He is crude, vulgar uncooth...DirtyHarry. There is no point in trying to appeal to his 'intellect' or his 'sense of decency'.

I still think you are a fanboy and believe way too much in MS. I personally like MS, and think the 360 will be ok (once the 2nd gen of games come out on the 360) as long as they don't scre up the hardware ahem *HD-DVD*. There really is a lot to like about MS in the videogame sector. I personal own quite a few games for X1.

Back on target:

MS inability to take the plunge on HD-DVD will ultimately hurt it in the end. Storage will become an issue when it comes to game size. Since MS has been kicking around the idea of adding an HD-DVD later, I personally think MS will lose a few loyalists. Plus, developers can't make disks to utilize the HD-DVD only. So that negates the additional storage space. Smooth MS...smooth.

With Blu-Ray, everyday parents can buy a PS3 with the knowledge that they are getting a new Blu-Ray player for themselves and a gaming system for their kids. Blu-Ray unfortunately keeps getting stronger everytime I look at the news relating to it. Xbox is on the losing end of this debate.

I'm still on the fence about the power of the Cell. I hear a lot of conflicting info...