City of Heroes Issue 5 powers screens

[Ventura_DK]

The City of Heroes community is crying "Doooooom" at the moment due to the huge, collective nerf in the upcoming fifth expansion for the MMO. However, there are also bits of good news such as the new power sets like Sonic Blast and Trick Arrow. These new screenshots (http://rpg.boomtown.net/en_uk/articles/art.view.php?id=8858) give us an idea of what the powers are going to look like.

http://i.boomtown.net/pics/4/3/5/80534/120x90.jpg (http://rpg.boomtown.net/en_uk/articles/art.view.php?id=8858)

Personally I think the nerfing is going to be a disaster, but I'll switch to a Sonic/Energy blaster and enjoy the new powers for a while.

[Cupelix]

I stopped playing CoH awhile ago - but is the reason for the big nerf an attempt to balance out the classes for PvP?

[Kefkataran]

Cupe, no. As far as I can tell, PvP still isn't being considered much at all. Considering the fact that there are pretty different combat rules (especially as far as holds and such) for PvP, it's not that big of a deal.

My regen scrapper (lvl. 43) is getting a huuuuuge nerf, but I'm just holding out till City of Villains and praying I can maybe hit 50 before then.

[Ventura_DK]

The nerf is not related to PvP. I think the official idea is to change the way the game is being played, and in particular squashing all farming/herding. Instead of changing the few powers that enable farming (such as burn for fire tanks), they have lowered defense/resistance for all AT, nerfed burn, nerfed all defensive pool powers and so on. Additionally there are now quite low limits to how many foes your powers can hit at the same time.

On the plus side the XP will be raised from the mid-20s upwards for kills, since most people will have to kill easier mobs now. Hopefully this means that the general speed of levelling won't be affected too much.

[Kefkataran]

The thing I'm concerned about is the very low limit on number of foes a tank can have taunted. Sure, it stops herding, but the limit is deadly low and makes tanks even less efficient in my opinion.

Raised XP is nice, but I'm worried that now I'll just blow past missions faster and outlevel them. They really need to get in a way to do outleveled missions.

[Mason]

...why are people still paying for this game?

I had fun with it for a while (tried several characters before settling on Ill/Rad controller), but once PvP came out it was pretty clear that they had little comprehension of their own combat system, and that always leads to trouble. When MMORPGs start having sweeping negative changes "for the good of the game", it is time for that final logoff.

And what moron decided that every AT needed a nerf to prevent herding? As I recall, herding was only really viable on a few special missions. Change those, end of problem.

[Cupelix]

Is the idea to push people back towards doing quests, or just to stop some archtypes from being able to farm as fast as they were? Some day I might want to get back into CoH because the draw of being a super hero is still awfully strong. I just want to know how different the game will be.

[Ventura_DK]

Well, the stupid thing is that while the number of taunts per "shot" is limited to 5, there's no limited to the total number of taunted enemies. You can still use punch voke (the build in tank taunt of all his powers) to get more mobs to follow you. So they aren't entirely stopping that, instead they are making group play much more hazardous, cause the tank can't get all the enemies to hit on him in an emergency, where his team mates are getting beaten up....

[Savok]

It's a massive rebalance that only effects the enjoyment of your game if you're herding entire maps. The game was broken, they are fixing it.

Really, play the damn thing on test, it's nowhere near as bad people think. Biggest thing in I5 is that you actually have to think about what you're fighting like you did on lower lvls. My 37 BS/Regen scrapper is still perfectly capable, hell with the damage increase I can 1-shot most minions. And as said, XP is going up, a full 33% from what I experienced. They aren't trying to stop you lvling they're trying to have the game make sense.

Not to mention the graphical updates and new powers (though sonic for blasters seems to be pretty awful right now, maybe I read it wrong) and new zone.

[Kefkataran]

I had fun with it for a while (tried several characters before settling on Ill/Rad controller), but once PvP came out it was pretty clear that they had little comprehension of their own combat system, and that always leads to trouble. When MMORPGs start having sweeping negative changes "for the good of the game", it is time for that final logoff.

Well, I played up till I2, quit, and then just restarted recently after I4 was released. So that's my story.

What kind of graphical updates are being up in with I5? I haven't heard much of anything about that.

[Justin_McElroy]

I heard it nerfed all the characters so bad that they don't even have super powers anymore. The new tag line is

"City of Heroes: Like a World of Batmen"

[Savok]

Taunt is the only thing I really have a problem with, putting the cap at 5 makes no sense at all.

The difference? The game has shifted to offense rather then defence in fitting with the original idea. No more getting build that can endure half the damn map, you don't want to die? Kill your enemies, they can't attack when they're dead.

Kefka, that's the much hoped for "flashback" mode. Not to worry too much though, once you get over 30 you'll burn up every contact you have well before going out of range currently, with the extra xp it may now actually "fit" later on. Of course this doesn't help those interested in the Hollows.

[Savok]

From what I've noticed in game some of the villian art has been redone (for quality rather then actual style change) and some new grahpic options, like anthitopic filtering or whatever it is. The water looks fantastic now.

[Kefkataran]

The new tag line is

"City of Heroes: Like a World of Batmen"

I heard it was "City of Moderately Able Heroes"

Kefka, that's the much hoped for "flashback" mode. Not to worry too much though, once you get over 30 you'll burn up every contact you have well before going out of range currently, with the extra xp it may now actually "fit" later on. Of course this doesn't help those interested in the Hollows.

I am over 30. Heh, I remember 35-40 and the huge gap between running out of missions and getting new contacts. That sucked. But yeah, it was more the lower-level stuff I'm concerned about, for when I finally restart and want to experience all the new content in the zones without missing out on missions. It seems with the auto-lower-levelling with TFs now in, it'd be easy to do the same with outlevelled missions.

I'm glad to hear about the graphical upgrades. That should be good.

[Savok]

That's what I've been doing, skipping the TFs because they can be done later (for a ton of inf as well).

It's 4am and I need sleep, so I'll add the last couple of things floating in my brain.

Trick Arrows for defenders is the first pure debuff set they've gotten, it can pretty much do everything except cause fear. Sitting back and torturing the enemy while the rest of the team blows everything apart is damn fun.

When it goes Live, run through the Tutorial again, you'll be in for a nice surprise.

[Demo_Boy]

Along with the nerf to every defense based power in the game, they also halved the duration of holds, disorients, etc... and doubled the recycle time on those same powers. Fortunately Controllers still have multipets? So sorry, that's gone too -- you only get one summons worth. No more pet wrangling for you.
I think every controller primary power got nerfed.
In exchange Controllers are given some extra damage which will help pre 22 and post 41.

[Moatman]

I've been playing since just before launch(pre-orders got into beta) and my main since about a month after launch(april 2004 was launch) has been an Invulnerable Tank. Sounds tough, and he was... There are 10 types of damage(Cold, Fire, Negative, Energy, Toxic, Smash, Lethal, and the dreaded psionic) and he currently(pre-issue5) has 90% resistance(mitigation) in all but 2, he only has 45% toxic and 0% psionic. He's one tough sob, hit him for 5000 damage and he only takes 500 in most cases, he has 2 ae taunt powers and cannot be "crowd controlled" unless 15 enemies try at the same exact time. That's one tough fella. After issue 5, all of those non-psionic numbers change to about 35%(smash and lethal are still about 90% if I respec a power to be stronger...) What?!?

So, I'm mighty pissed at their "vision" of what the game should be at this point, no other class has been so heavily nerfed, they had to change about 5 or 6 of my powers, typically it's one or two powers that are not meant to be as powerful(say a power that permanently makes you unhittable if you manage to make it recharge faster than its duration, or one that lets you solo dozens of enemies and burn them into submission with no effort or danger)

I'm fine with dropping down to maybe 60 or 70% damage, that easily lets me be killable by enemies, I fully understand that 90% is out of whack and too high(and keep in mind that those numbers may not seem so different, but in the world of percentages, it's 200-300% more damage I'd be taking) but lets me feel like I'm not just a heal-leech. Tanks deal such mediocre damage as it is, I'm definitely considering leaving the game as this point. And for the record, my character is 50 and has been for quite some time, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy playing him or that I should just forget about him and all of the other people getting nerfed at this point. He will become nearly unplayable in a lot of situations.

[Kefkataran]

Trick arrows suddenly does sound really fun. And something new in the tutorial could never be bad. I'm psyched to check that out. When does I5 go live anyways? I had heard this week.

[beerbaronstatic]

As they haven't even started the "predownload" of Issue 5 yet I'm going to guess it won't be released for a good several more weeks... plenty of time for all those who fear actually playing the game to still farm their way to 50. Bleh

[bean19]

They are nerfing it to disable some power-leveling exploits.

By using high level tanks that have most of their defensive powers set up, it is currently possible (in Issue 4) to coral a large number of enemies into a small area and allow blasters to destroy them. If you are particularly clever, then you can do this in an uber way, by using a devices blaster that is sidekicked up to high level while he lays trip mines, then have him move out of range of the trip mines so that he is not close enough in proximity to set them off (mobs will go over them without exploding). While the blaster is away, have him remove sidekicking so that he levels down to his original level (however the trip mines will still be the same level as they were when he set them). Once the tank has them coralled onto the mines, bring the unsidekicked blaster back in range and watch the xp fly as the entire group receives the experience cap for their level for every single kill.

Another big exploit for really low levels is to take a controller and have them use a power that does no damage to pull a large number of groups (that are too low level to hurt the controller) close to a number of low levels that are not grouped with the controller, but who are within 3 to 5 levels of the mobs being pulled. The controller coralls them in a box and then uses AoE holds to make all of the large number of mobs unable to attack. The low level heroes then take out the defenseless mobs with area of effect powers and gain massive xp with no risk.

Likewise, some of the nerfs are to "Invincible" sets. Sets that allow players to play without any, or at least very low risk, against mobs that are even as much as 3 levels higher than their characters. Tanks shouldn't be able to endure over 100 same level mobs shooting at them at once. It wouldn't make sense in the comic books and it doesn't make sense in the game. Controllers shouldn't be able to summon a ton of pets, click phase out, and then go to fetch a soda. Regen scrappers shouldn't be able to click instant healing and Integration and then proceed to solo every archvillain in the game. Archvillains for those not in the know about CoH are this game's equivalent of endgame group baddies. All of the powersets getting nerfed were incredibly overpowered by comparison to any other class in other MMOs. However, because there are just so MANY of these overpowered sets, it gives the players the impression that this is "normal".

So, the "big" nerfs are to:

-Number of mobs a tank can aggro at once with AoE taunts
-Number of mobs a controller can hold at once with AoE holds
-Nerfs to various sets that played "invulnerably" after a certain point in the game.

Anyway, I wouldn't post in depth information on the CoH boards about the exploits and reasons because 1) I5 isn't live yet and those exploits still work right now and 2) most players don't want to hear that they were overpowered and the nerf stick is hitting.

However, there is some really great news. They have upped xp CONSIDERABLY from levels 25-50 so that you can still level at a good pace. Not an exploiters pace, of course, but for people who never used these shady tactics, the speed of leveling in the endgame has gone UP considerably rather than down.

[Demo_Boy]

The game is fun, just don't bother making a Controller class or Inv tanker post I5.

[Thenetcase]

You guys are a bunch of f'ing idiots... It's not nerfing.. it's ballancing for longevity.
And also NC Soft has the reputation of changing things BACK if they don't work out, so go piss on yourself and die.

You people are so freaking stupid to be whining about this stuff. Who wants to play an MMORPG that too damn easy? Being a fire tank is like walking through a park shooting squirrles with a 12 guage-- just no challenge to it.

-TNC-

[Moatman]

Sure, it's easy to say it's "balancing" but it's going overboard in some situations. I've been playing mmo's as long as anyone, I know balancing and fixing obvious issues when I see it, they are taking care of some big issues here, some of them are going overboard though. When the game stops being enjoyable and more of a hassle to play, that's when the dev's failed. These game dev's just don't realize that sometimes their "vision" of the games don't make the games better and just piss off players.

Look at Saga of Ryzom. Their dev's put out a patch to make the game more in tune with how they felt the game should be, that was a month or two after launch...I hear 50-70% of the subscribers left. I haven't seen subscriber notes yet for swg, but I'm guessing they probably dipped a bit after the combat "upgrade" that was put out. Balancing is "this is too powerful, let's lower it to be in line with the intended use" instead of "this is too powerful, let's ruin it so no one picks it as a power/spell/ability again" Many mmo's over-nerf things instead of carefully adjusting values here and there to be more in-line with other classes. I fully expected to be nerfed, but at some point they decided that instead of making my character "strong but killable" they made him "somewhat tough, with the right spec and powers and playstyle, sometimes" which isn't what I signed up for. But eh, things change in time I guess.

[Thenetcase]

Last time everyone whined about the "nerfs" and said how people were going to leave by the thousands... the subscription base went up 20% instead of down.

Good game, whiners.

Moatman has some rational points. If they do screw up the game... they'll fix it like they did with issue 3.

[Savok]

Everyone says regen has it worst off with the nerfs everytime but each time I find myself still perfectly capable. I was fighting +1s with only Intergration and Combat Jumping on (including an even lvled boss (which resisted lethal) and no inspirs), I didn't die because they died first. Take into account I had Dull Pain and the new click IH as back up, powers like Tough and Weave I haven't even got yet, you're still perfectly capable.

60%-70% is scrapper inv I think, wanna know what spines/inv are doing right now? Herding, that's what. They've tried to boost stuff in the past to balance and adding higher difficulties, it didn't work, the game was/is just too broken.

Yes they're making it so you can only have one pet out at a time, but they're also boosting the pet strength to compensate. If you think about it, this helps controllers because elevators will no longer gimp you.

[Mason]

No, this is a sad means of addressing the issue.

How hard would it be to give most farmed mobs a small defense debuff as part of their attacks? Legitimate groups wouldn't notice it, but farming tanks would be hit by everything if they wrangled up more than a few groups. Instadeath, regardless of defenses or buffs.

And as for controllers wrangling for lowbies, just flag a mob with the highest player level that's "touched" it recently, and use it as the basis for giving out exp. Kind of surprised that such a thing isn't already on the damage table.

It's all academic, as I unsubscribed months ago, but I heartily reject the notion that messing with people's classes is the only way to rebalance things. If I made a character to play a desired role, but the capabilities of the character keep changing unpredictably whenever some jerk figures out a new exploit, it really deprives one of a sense of ownership of the character.

Like, I could log back on and play with my old characters, but my illusion controller would be based mainly around EPP fireball attacks, since pets and holds are nerfed but the AE stuff does double damage. Umm...that's great, but I thought I rolled a controller.

Keep an eye on MMOGCHART (http://www.mmogchart.com) to see if this was a smart change. Will it bring CoH up above eight-year old UO?

[Savok]

Pets are stronger and god forbid you may have to concentrate on controlling. You haven't played in months, you have no idea just how broken it currently is.

The moment I walked into Crey's Folly I could solo the place on Intergration and IH alone. Broken. Heroes struggle, it's what they do, it's why comics are intersting. At this time the game takes zero effort at higher lvls. And not just a bit of it, or a few groups, all of it, you can herd almost anything and live.

The game is broken, how many times must it be said for people to understand?

[Scar]

I don't have an opinion on the game and the changes since I haven't played it since beta, but don't you guys wish that there was more mystery to this process? The way everyone's listing nerf this, buff that, +30% that, where does the fun come into it? Because to me it looks like a bunch of math and build planning, then a bunch of clicking and then you have an uber character. This sounds less like a game and more like a spreadsheet (moo3 lol).

[bean19]

Scar - Read my last post. I didn't go into percentages, but I clearly outlined the reasons for the changes.

The game doesn't play like MOO3 at all. There isn't any number crunching unless you are super hardcore (and usually a tester looking for problems).

Btw - I'd reply to the others who are still upset about the changes, but we've gotten to that point where 1) you know the reasons for the nerfs and 2) you still don't like them on principle. Nothing left to argue.

[QueQueg]

Pets are stronger and god forbid you may have to concentrate on controlling. You haven't played in months, you have no idea just how broken it currently is.

The moment I walked into Crey's Folly I could solo the place on Intergration and IH alone. Broken. Heroes struggle, it's what they do, it's why comics are intersting. At this time the game takes zero effort at higher lvls. And not just a bit of it, or a few groups, all of it, you can herd almost anything and live.

The game is broken, how many times must it be said for people to understand?

I don't think anyone would argue that there were broken powers/combinations. I take issue with the heavy-handed nature of the correction.

Not all tanks could herd entire, 8-man invincible missions, and yet all tanks were nerfed. Tell the poor Ice tanks that they had too much defense, and that they were "broken".

Not all scrappers could afk in a spawn of reds, because the doorbell rang, and let Instant Healing do all the work. Again, tell the poor SR scrappers that they were broken, and had to be nerfed.

Not all contollers could spawn armies of Fire Imps, to the point that actually dropping holds became an afterthought. Gravity and Mind controllers were overpowered, and needed to have thier holds neutered?

If, in the face of those three examples, you still think that the indescrimate "balance"ing was necessary, well, you're Jack Emert's ideal customer. You'll happily accept any further mutation of the original game as all being part of his original "vision".

The rest of us will call you by your real name.

Fanboi.

[Kefkataran]

Not all scrappers could afk in a spawn of reds, because the doorbell rang, and let Instant Healing do all the work. Again, tell the poor SR scrappers that they were broken, and had to be nerfed.

Erm... SR scrappers obviously don't have Instant Healing so they didn't have that nerfed. Any other all-scrapper nerfs had nothing to do with instant healing. And as someone who has and loves IH, I can say quite firmly that going AFK in a spawn of reds and surviving is still hyperbole. Then again, your whole post was pretty hyperbolic, and that's coming from someone who isn't that excited or apologetic about the patch/nerfs.

[Demo_Boy]

Quadruple nerf controllers: hold duration, recycle, max held mobs, no pet wrangling - add a bit more damage??? esentially making them into a different class,
gut Inv players
and generally roll the dice on changing dozens of powers in the game.
hello?

You have a level 80 Barbarian in Diablo 2. You click on enemies a couple times and they die. Thousands are having fun. The next day you log in and you feel like a level 20, tops.
COH is a carebear game, what is the big crisis about having to make players suffer like in EQ? sometimes all you wanna do is click monsters and pick up piles of gold.

The reason COH is a great game and the #2 MMORPG around is because carebear players can feel like powergamers when they play it. Not post I5...

[QueQueg]

Erm... SR scrappers obviously don't have Instant Healing so they didn't have that nerfed.

Come again?

Perhaps you should reread my post. I was responding to the previous posters comments that IH and regen were broken, by pointing out that not all scrappers are regen. For an SR scrapper who depends solely on defense to keep him alive, further reducing the effectiveness of his defensive powers is just another smack in the face.

You really should read a post before replying to it.

[bean19]

Demoboy - Because players complain that the high level game is boring due to a distinct lack of challenge.

My characters still feel very powerful and super. They just removed exploits and clipped the wings of the most eggregiously overpowered heroes. A controller still controls very well, a tank still tanks very well, and a scrapper still does great damage with a ton of damage mitigation.

Risk vs. reward, etc.

To extend the life of the game though. . . they need endgame content. Not more and more zones for low to mid-level players.

Btw, they aren't the #2 MMORPG except with critics. For whatever reasons, they have fewer subscribers than WoW, DAoC, Everquest, Everquest II, SWG, and possibly Lineage II and Lineage (their numbers are messed up due to the Korea thingy). So, while they are critically acclaimed, they appreciate fewer subscribers.

My guess is that this is because the gameplay from 1-50 becomes "too much of the same". If you are pushing the same buttons and fighting different mobs that only differ in their art over and over and over, well, people will get bored. The leveling speed isn't anywhere as fast as the speed in WoW and they don't have good endgame content like WoW, so even though CoH has a TON of replayability with all the different hero types, there is not any reason to level one up past 32-35 as you can see all the primary powers by that point, and by then you are probably exhausted with the game mechanics.

Mission customization will help a lot, and hopefully City of Villains will introduce a lot of endgame content that should also help.

Anyway, big tangent. . . but I think you should try the changes before complaining. The xp bonus from level 25 up is SIGNIFICANT and every player that doesn't exploit, regardless of archetype will level faster now. Yes, even regen scrappers, controllers, and inv tanks that were nerfed down to comparability with the other ATs or other sets in their AT will level faster than ever (unless they were exploiting).

[Babbster]

Btw, they aren't the #2 MMORPG except with critics. For whatever reasons, they have fewer subscribers than WoW, DAoC, Everquest, Everquest II, SWG, and possibly Lineage II and Lineage (their numbers are messed up due to the Korea thingy). So, while they are critically acclaimed, they appreciate fewer subscribers.

My guess is that this is because the gameplay from 1-50 becomes "too much of the same".

Yeah, I don't think so. I think the reason they have fewer subscribers is because they're not running a swords'n'sorcery RPG, and because WoW seems to have "taken over the world." All but one of the MMOs you listed is old school fantasy and the one that isn't is based on what is probably the biggest license of all time.

Heck, take a look at people complaining in EVERY MMOG. They ALL get to be "too much of the same" as you spend more time in the game. Considering the number of people I've met who play (as opposed to power-level) through CoH 1-50 multiple times, I think what it really suffers from is that it doesn't follow the usual "phat lewt" paradigm that so many folks enjoy.

Me, I'm on hiatus from CoH. Not because it got to be too much of the same (it is but, again, no more so than other games of its type). No, I stopped playing because I'm holding out for the flashback feature, and possibly for a PC upgrade (mine is woefully inadequate but I have SO many vices). I'll probably be back, upgraded PC or not, once flashback gets into the game, mainly so that I can take part in any task force or trial I want any time...I like my superheroing "decompressed." :)

[Savok]

you're Jack Emert's ideal customer. You'll happily accept any further mutation of the original game as all being part of his original "vision".

The rest of us will call you by your real name.

Fanboi.
Don't get me started on the 5th/Council, boy.

And fuck can we at least try to spell "boy" properly in this day and age?

Have you been on test with those sets? Have you tried the new game? I have, I seriously thought they'd gone mad from what everyone was saying, then I actually tried it and everything worked great.

[Kefkataran]

Perhaps you should reread my post. I was responding to the previous posters comments that IH and regen were broken, by pointing out that not all scrappers are regen. For an SR scrapper who depends solely on defense to keep him alive, further reducing the effectiveness of his defensive powers is just another smack in the face.

You really should read a post before replying to it.

I did. But the regen nerf (which was huge) has nothing to do with the defense nerf. The defense nerf had nothing to do with regen scrappers being overpowered. Those things are unrelated, so I have no idea why you were making them related. Of course the defense nerf hurts SR scrappers. But it hurts regen scrappers too who had a huge regen nerf as well.

Anyways.

I again think it's worth keeping in mind when talking about CoH's low subscriber rate in comparison to other MMORPGs that they've said time and again this summer that they're still doing very well and are currently at the peak for subscribers, which will only go up when CoV is released, likely to rave reviews if CoH is any indication.

[bean19]

boi = this term comes from the gay community and originally implied "young gay male". Do you read XY magazine?