Next-gen System Spec War is Over! Tie game!

[Ludoc]

In a surprisingly unbiased (and short) article, Gamespot highlights MS's perspective (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/29/news_6130057.html) on the next round of console wars:

Our view is basically: We've got a Ferrari. They've got a Ferrari," Gates said in a question-and-answer session Thursday. "Our Ferrari is leaving the starting line substantially before their Ferrari is, and, in most races, that's a very nice thing.They're going to be a little faster in a few areas; we're going to be a little faster in a few areas," Bach said. "The net result from a hardware perspective is going to be kind of a toss-up.
I'm quite suprised. Flame on, fanboys.

[FunkyPoopMonkey]

Does anyone even care? I thought that this generation already taught us that specs don't ammount to anything visually. This stuff should only concern developers, and I'd say 99.9% of everyone here is not one.

[Zeal]

Considering all 360 games look worse if not identical to this generation's, and based on the fact that everything Sony showed at E3 was bs, I'm not listening to either at this point.

Microsoft's just talking about of their ass, just like Krazy Kutaragi.

Oh and Revolution's controller will probably end up being a handheld with three screens.

[snubber]

All 360 games look worse or identical to this generation's?!? You're really telling me that you think the shots of Oblivion or PGR3 can be done with this tech? Or perhaps even look WORSE than current games?!?!?

Man I'd love to be as high as you right now.

[if76]

Does anyone even care? I thought that this generation already taught us that specs don't ammount to anything visually. This stuff should only concern developers, and I'd say 99.9% of everyone here is not one.

Play GTA:Vice City on PS2 and then on Xbox and tell me that specs didn't mean anything this generation. I do agree with your overall point that system specs really won't be that important this generation though. I think this is what MS is saying.

[balamoor]

Remember the PS3 isn't a game machine!!! It is a piece of Kutaragi's brain encapsulated in a Titanium case linked together by strands of Psychic energy forming a huge overmind.

[Heretic Machine]

Does anyone even care? I thought that this generation already taught us that specs don't ammount to anything visually. This stuff should only concern developers, and I'd say 99.9% of everyone here is not one.

...Keep telling yourself that.

[bapenguin]

So they are saying what I've been saying for a year now. Cool.

[Paranoia]

**runs to reserve X360**

[Neverborne]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!

I don't foresee anyone getting all uppity about this; the posting says nothing about Nintendo.

[Furious Wang]

Considering all 360 games look worse if not identical to this generation's,

You are either the world's biggest idiot, the world's biggest liar, or your computer monitor is set to 640x480 16 colors.

[SpectralWolf]

Remember the PS3 isn't a game machine!!! It is a piece of Kutaragi's brain encapsulated in a Titanium case linked together by strands of Psychic energy forming a huge overmind.

LOL. Now that made reading this thread worthwhile.
:)

[51|RandoM]

So if I run this through a marketspeak translator, it tells me ps3 is stronger than xbox360.

because:

a) if your console is faster, you talk about it all the time
b) if your console isn't faster, you never come out and admit it
c) if your console is slower, you claim to be just as fast and put the burden of proof on the competitor, allowing them to bungle it.

Business as usual. :-)

[Kamalot]

All 360 games look worse or identical to this generation's?!? You're really telling me that you think the shots of Oblivion or PGR3 can be done with this tech?

Well, TECHNICALLY Oblivion is a VERY nice looking game.

Artistically, Oblivion looks like complete and total ass.

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/702/702493/img_2807257.html

Can anyone seriously tell me that those are interesting creature designs?

Sure, they have tons of polygons, but what good are a lot of polygons if they are all of an assy 3D model?

It isn't the technology that's important, its what you DO with the tech that's important.

[TrackZero]

Does anyone even care? I thought that this generation already taught us that specs don't ammount to anything visually. This stuff should only concern developers, and I'd say 99.9% of everyone here is not one.

Heh, I'd say you don't know this site's readership very well. I'd be surprised if at least 5% weren't developers.

[FunkyPoopMonkey]

Play GTA:Vice City on PS2 and then on Xbox and tell me that specs didn't mean anything this generation. I do agree with your overall point that system specs really won't be that important this generation though. I think this is what MS is saying.
Lol, why did you chose the worst coded game series of the entire generation, for your argument? The game looks bad and runs at 10 fps, because Rockstar can't code their way out of a nutsack.

Once again, specs do not mean anything to the consumer. The only people who think otherwise are so disconnected from the entire point of the industry, that I weep for them.

[mister_slim]

You are either the world's biggest idiot, the world's biggest liar, or your computer monitor is set to 640x480 16 colors.
Did you forget saying this (http://gametrailers.com/player.php?id=1791) looked like a N64 game?

[Something about glass houses and whatnot]

[Dirty Harry]

Well, TECHNICALLY Oblivion is a VERY nice looking game.

Artistically, Oblivion looks like complete and total ass.

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/702/702493/img_2807257.html

Can anyone seriously tell me that those are interesting creature designs?

Sure, they have tons of polygons, but what good are a lot of polygons if they are all of an assy 3D model?

It isn't the technology that's important, its what you DO with the tech that's important.
I honestly would hold my tongue if i were you. I don't even think you understand what you are saying. It takes a lot of work to be a good modeller. I'm not talking about the quality of modeling Ala quake/half life 1 engine. More so the quality of the Doom 3 engine. Secondly the game morrowind, is technically a rip of D&D settings wise, well time era and the races of all the inhabitants of the setting of the game. So the fact that the game is comprised of elfs and demons and orcs and humans has no problem with me. The picture in question you talk about illustrates what I as a gamer and avid Fantasy reader would expect Orcs and Goblins to look like. So please give these game creators more respect than to say they are untalented.

[Dirty Harry]

Did you forget saying this (http://gametrailers.com/player.php?id=1791) looked like a N64 game?

[Something about glass houses and whatnot]
http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36593#post36593

closest thing i can think of.

[Achilles]

Considering all 360 games look worse if not identical to this generation'sIf you’re serious I can only assume that you can’t distinguish any kind of technical or visual differences in artwork. People like that exist; they say that Conker for Xbox looks just like Conker for the N64 and such things. Once again, specs do not mean anything to the consumer. The only people who think otherwise are so disconnected from the entire point of the industry, that I weep for them.Try to make Halo for the PS1. Specs matter. Maybe Bill G is right that the PS3 and 360 will be similar, but that's very different than specs not mattering except to developers. Some experiences can't exsist on certain kinds of hardware.

[Furious Wang]

Did you forget saying this (http://gametrailers.com/player.php?id=1791) looked like a N64 game?

[Something about glass houses and whatnot]

Yeah. Kameo for the Xbox did look like a N64 game. Slightly higher resolution textures, sure, but it definately looked horrible for a Xbox game. Kameo for 360 looks better but not great.

So what was your point anyway? Were you trying to compare my statement to a blanket statement that is 100% false in every way?

Let's put them side by side.

Here's mine.

Kameo for Xbox looks like an N64 game.

Here's his:

all 360 games look worse if not identical to this generation's,

Now, if I had said "Kameo for Xbox looks worse than N64 games" then sure, there might be some validity to your post. Slight nuance there, but you seem to be intelligent so I am suprised you couldn't catch it.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Yeah. Kameo for the Xbox did look like a N64 game. Slightly higher resolution textures, sure, but it definately looked horrible for a Xbox game. Kameo for 360 looks better but not great.

So what was your point anyway? Were you trying to compare my statement to a blanket statement that is 100% false in every way?

Let's put them side by side.

Here's mine.

Kameo for Xbox looks like an N64 game.

Here's his:

all 360 games look worse if not identical to this generation's,

Now, if I had said "Kameo for Xbox looks worse than N64 games" then sure, there might be some validity to your post. Slight nuance there, but you seem to be intelligent so I am suprised you couldn't catch it.

Although I am not floored by Kameo's graphics, it is an insult to compare it to N64 graphics. That is not even a funny joke. To compare Kameo to a 64 to the build they had of Kameo on Xbox isn't even close. It musthave been a long time since you guys have played a 64 if you think it was capable of producing those graphics.

As for 360 graphics looking worse than this generation's...show me those two games. I agree that some do look similar...but to say that "all" games look worse if not identical to this generation's is absolutely ridiculous.

[Furious Wang]

http://www.gamespot.com/n64/action/rayman2thegreatescape/screens.html?page=158
http://www.gamespot.com/n64/action/rayman2thegreatescape/screens.html?page=38
http://www.gamespot.com/n64/action/rayman2thegreatescape/screens.html?page=28

He shoots! He scores!

[Kamalot]

Not once did I say the developers are untalented. In some ways, I think the developers of Oblivion are the best in their field. They make large expansive worlds that are unbelievably rich in detail. I remember playing Daggerfall for hours and hours poking around the world trying to see what the possibilities are, how far I could push the universe.

I still think the designs for Oblivion look completely trite and uninspired. Technically, the game is amazing. The texture work is rich, complete with excellent bump-maps. The game really takes advantage of the 360’s power. But all the texture work, 3D models and bump maps won’t help you overcome a terrible sense of style.

Now maybe some will really dig the goblin-y baddies in the previous screen shot. Some may like the Wookie reject pictured here.

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/702/702493/img_2668044.html

Or even this guy who looks like he was copied and pasted from Poser.

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/702/702493/img_2556929.html

Technically, they are all quite cool. Artistically, they suck. I’d rather have the low-poly models from World of Warcraft in my games. They are fluid and have a great, cohesive sense of style.

Actually, World of Warcraft is a great basepoint for discussion. Compare screen shots of WOW and Everquest 2. Hands down, Everquest 2 is a better rendering engine yet the world seems dull, inspired and lifeless. As if there was no artistic direction during development. WOW has an overall, pervasive sense of style that inhabits every nook and cranny of the world.

[mister_slim]

Yeah. Kameo for the Xbox did look like a N64 game. Slightly higher resolution textures, sure, but it definately looked horrible for a Xbox game. Kameo for 360 looks better but not great.

Are you confused by the art style or something?

[OUX]

Actually, World of Warcraft is a great basepoint for discussion. Compare screen shots of WOW and Everquest 2. Hands down, Everquest 2 is a better rendering engine yet the world seems dull, inspired and lifeless. As if there was no artistic direction during development. WOW has an overall, pervasive sense of style that inhabits every nook and cranny of the world.

Finally someone else who doesn't confuse rendering with style.