Mass Effect in Numbers - 6.76 GB and 2.5 Million Words

[bapenguin]

SpaceGhost2k over at the TeamXbox Forums (http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=554994) has some hands on impressions and a behind the scenes look at the Mass Effect launch party at Bioware's headquarters in Edmonton Canada.

A few interesting bits of information has come out; the size of the finished game is 6.74GB and the game has over 2.5 million words worth of dialog that are voiced. There are some details on the save system as well which helps those of you in making difficult decisions in the game.They also changed the way the game saves are handled. There is an autosave setting as well as being able to do manual saves. But most importantly, you can go back and forth between characters of your creation and game save points. To illustrate, let’s say you have a light side Jill Shepard and a dark side Jack Shepard. You play a point in the game as the light side character. You want to see how the same point would play out as a dark side character, all you do is change characters and replay the point. This is HUGE over only having the option to just replay the whole game again as “the other side.”

2 weeks until this massive title hits. The game looks like it's going to meet expectations!

[Dukefrukem]

2.5 million words? I bet some of the Final Fantasy games, (X, XII) meet that.

[Mortis]

Man, I need to quit my job so I have time to play everything. :(

[Gorvi]

Any word yet on a demo?

[Telefrog]

2.5 million words? I bet some of the Final Fantasy games, (X, XII) meet that.

The point being?

[Citizen Philip]

Hmph. I want my PC version.

[CaptStu]

Any word yet on a demo?

You really think this game needs a demo to know if you're going to like it? Come on, Gorvi.

[Gorvi]

You really think this game needs a demo to know if you're going to like it? Come on, Gorvi.
Well, yeah, I do. I didn't like KOTOR, and that game got a ton of praise. Why would wanting a demo for a game I think I may like be a bad thing?

[CaptStu]

Well, yeah, I do. I didn't like KOTOR, and that game got a ton of praise. Why would wanting a demo for a game I think I may like be a bad thing?

Because money is no object and it's good to blindly go into purchases blindly. :)

[Telefrog]

Hmph. I want my PC version.

Good luck with that. How long did it take for Jade Empire to get to the PC?

On topic: The ability to switch out the main character at save points is pretty frickin' awesome. I can finally have my badass baby killer trail my saintly missionary diplomat and undo all the good he does.

[Gorvi]

Because money is no object and it's good to blindly go into purchases blindly. :)
But I want to go blindly into purchases with my eyes wide open, seeing everything! :p

[AboveAvgCharles]

I'm not sure about this character switch feature. Yeah, it's great in that it allows you to see how situations would play out differently for good vs. evil without having to replay the whole game... but it seems sorta like it's making things too easy that way. This is the kind of thing that I want to replay the game for, and making this too easily accessible may kill that desire to replay for some people.

[Kelegacy]

You really think this game needs a demo to know if you're going to like it? Come on, Gorvi.

For some people, yes. Hype does not equal greatness. In a perfect world, maybe. It's funny how high-profile games never receive demos. They might destroy the hype machine.

Plus, I haven't found Bioware stellar since their PC-centric days. Still good, but they lost something in the transition.

[NationalKato]

I'm not sure about this character switch feature...and making this too easily accessible may kill that desire to replay for some people.

How can anyone complain about more features and more freedom to play how you want? It's this kind of backwards thinking that results in checkpoint-only saves and save features as evidenced in games like Dead Rising.

Willpower is the key. You want to replay the whole game from a different perspective? Don't use the feature. Simple as that. Honestly, think of it this way: what if there is more than two options for a given situation? What if it's not just 'light vs. dark?' Then we'd all have to play the game 3 or 4 full times - but wait! What if certain decisions then affect later options? Then the permutations could be countless!

Sorry, I have a lot of games to play. I don't need to play Mass Effect 30 times to experience it all. Put more power in the hands of the gamers that bought the game, not less.

[bean19]

Mass Effect literally makes me happy. I'm happy just thinking about it. So I guess you could say that I've "swallowed the hype". . . except the thing is, I've seen so much video of the game that I really know what I'm getting. It is going to be a fairly easy shooter/RPG with great graphics, story, characters, and a sci-fi setting. The game world is enormous and there are multiple endings.

So how much of that is hype? The only thing we don't really know is how good combat feels, and since this is Bioware, I already know it will be the low point of an otherwise great game.

Now, Assassin's Creed. . . that game is one that I'm not sure about. They have a great track record, but the game is single-player ONLY, and it might be short and it might contain ridiculous jump puzzles or bad stealth puzzles (stealth puzzles are hard to do well). Mass Effect isn't a sure thing, but I've seen enough to know that it will meet my expectations. . . all it really can do is exceed them.

[Goronmon]

Because money is no object and it's good to blindly go into purchases blindly. :)

Cannot wait for this game to release.

[fitbabits]

2.5 million words! That's a lot.

I wonder if the devs had to cut corners to fit the whole game on one disc?

[bapenguin]

Any word yet on a demo?

I'm sure there will be, but probably not for some time after launch. My guess is all resources were being used to create and ship the game on time.

[mkelehan]

2.5 million words? I bet some of the Final Fantasy games, (X, XII) meet that.

I'm sure they're at least knocking on that number, if you include the random townsfolk who aren't voiced. This is 2.5 million voiced words. That's very impressive.

For some people, yes. Hype does not equal greatness. In a perfect world, maybe. It's funny how high-profile games never receive demos. They might destroy the hype machine.Right, demos certainly hurt Guitar Hero 3 and Bioshock.

Bottom line, America: hype is a function of marketing budget, but a demo will only hurt a bad game and only help a good one.

[Gaz]

Mass Effect, Assassins Creed, Guitar Hero 3, Ace Combat 6, Kane and Lynch and to a lesser extent the new Need for Speed all arrive on the same day in the UK...

I think I'm going to pop into Gamestation here when we take our shipment to take advantage of my employee benefits, heh. It's going to be a massive hole in the pocket of an awful lot of gamers, especially with Super Mario Galaxy and Call of duty 4 hitting in the short few weeks beforehand. Delays have just had a compression effect, and now loads of major titles are hitting within close striking distance of one another.

[Gerbs]

While I am not interested in this character swapping aspect of the game, I can see how other gamers would appreciate such a feature. I would rather replay the entire game through again as a new path rather than piggyback two characters through the game.

One thing I read about the other day was how Mass Effects achievements can unlock new talents for your characters on subsequent playthroughs. Something along the lines of unlocking the "150 kills with Assault Rifle" achievement allows your next character to start with the assault rifle trait even if their class would normally not allow it. Hot.

So excited for this game. If only I could get the LE. :(

[AboveAvgCharles]

Willpower is the key. You want to replay the whole game from a different perspective? Don't use the feature. Simple as that.
But I am a weak and wretched creature whose will is easily broken. :(

I'm also curious to see if this only applies to conversations and such, or if you can literally just switch the characters on the fly. If that's the case, how is character progression going to be handled, I wonder? Autolevel the other character when you swap him/her in?

[BlueBomber]

In regards to the demo, I don't see why one wouldn't be released if it truly is an awesome game.

I think it's kind of like how Sony never released that Lair demo. Might have seriously impacted it's sales.

But this is supposed to be a phenomenal game, so why they wouldn't release one is beyond me...

[Kelegacy]

I hope Bioware moves away from the whole light and dark thing in the future. Seems like each new game they create has two tunnels you can take, one correct response according to your playstyle.

Dialogue option 1 "Here, take this money, heal your son."
Option 2: "I care not for your son. Prepare to die!"

Probably all of their games in the future will have this amount of "depth", since it seems like a standard feature for them now. I played through Jade Empire being purely good the entire time, but one action towards the end of the game made me get the evil ending. Basically your actions meant jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

[Goronmon]

Bottom line, America: hype is a function of marketing budget, but a demo will only hurt a bad game and only help a good one.Actually, it's not quite that easy. A bad demo can still hurt a good game.

[Telefrog]

Probably all of their games in the future will have this amount of "depth", since it seems like a standard feature for them now. I played through Jade Empire being purely good the entire time, but one action towards the end of the game made me get the evil ending. Basically your actions meant jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

Funny, that's exactly the way most religions treat people. Do good stuff your whole life, but you don't believe in <insert diety here>? You go to Hell anyway!

[mkelehan]

I hope Bioware moves away from the whole light and dark thing in the future. Seems like each new game they create has two tunnels you can take, one correct response according to your playstyle.

Dialogue option 1 "Here, take this money, heal your son."
Option 2: "I care not for your son. Prepare to die!"

Probably all of their games in the future will have this amount of "depth", since it seems like a standard feature for them now. I played through Jade Empire being purely good the entire time, but one action towards the end of the game made me get the evil ending. Basically your actions meant jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

Was it a choice that very clearly made you evil? I mean, I can see a really big choice doing that. Like, curbstomping a toddler or something.

In Silent Hill 3, there's a really big choice in the end that goes a long way to determining if you get the good or bad ending. A woman asks you for forgiveness. If you give it to her, it gives you massive points towards the BAD ending.

[bean19]

I hope Bioware moves away from the whole light and dark thing in the future. Seems like each new game they create has two tunnels you can take, one correct response according to your playstyle.

They are taking more of the Fallout route with your actions up to that point effecting the choices you can make during two major sequences at the end. This means that you have two big turning points, but you only have available choices based on your actions. So there will be evil vs. good endings, but that's not where it stops.

From the way they talk about it, I think they will be more plot-based than morality based.

In any case, I like games that have ANY branching paths. Bioshock has two endings based on whether or not you kill the little girls or rescue them, and that's it. Coupled with a great game, that gives me a reason to go back and play again.

[Xenkylm]

2.5 million words? I bet some of the Final Fantasy games, (X, XII) meet that.

I will absolutely take that bet. How much, $100? $200? Single-spaced, with no line-breaks, a 2.5 million word script would hover somewhere around 3,500 pages. There is no way in hell the script for any of the last two major FF games approach 2.5 million.

For those of you who are fond of analogies, 2.5 million words would be like reading the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy (~400k words) about six times.

[AeroHudson]

So much for DVD9's not being able to support next gen. This game is about as next gen as they come from what I have seen, heard and read and it looks phenomenal! If devs like Bioware, Bethesda and others can fit these massive worlds on one DVD9 disc than I feel that MS made the right call not going with a next gen optical format which would have driven up the cost.

Just my somewhat related and somewhat nonrelated thought. ;)

[drakkarim]

i've swallowed the hype as well, can't wait for this, keep forgetting they're going to be trying for a triple with this series, so might have to keep this one instead of selling it after finishing, not sure why though, but just a gut feeling.

i'm even at the point of considering the secret sauce edition when i go to the store.

as for good/bad, i figure it can't be worse than halo3, as i actually trust these guys to do it right. i wasn't impressed with KOTOR, but this seems like a world of improvement on that series, specifically addressing all the issues i had with KOTOR.

anyway, here's to hoping i don't buy any other game for a couple months :) except maybe conan and beowulf, and viking, and lair, crap, too many games.

forgot to mention, the save system as well as the character swap system are a big + for me, as is the variety in play style options that they mentioned, regarding difficulty changing something other than the number of bullets you can take.

[beefyjr]

I'd be willing to bet that this game is, functionally, a LOT like KOTOR. Which is fine for me, but if someone didn't like that game, I could see wanting to try before you buy.

[MrWonderstuff]

I swallowed the hype, hopefully I won't throw up.

This is the first game where I read a related novella prior to purchase.

[Zacharai]

I will absolutely take that bet. How much, $100? $200? Single-spaced, with no line-breaks, a 2.5 million word script would hover somewhere around 3,500 pages. There is no way in hell the script for any of the last two major FF games approach 2.5 million.
It always sounds fishy to me when people jump in and say 'Well, game X already did that!' when they have no evidence. Is there a word for this phenomenon? In this case, everyone knows that the Final Fantasy series has lots of words. Then, when a new game comes out that gives a specific word count, people assume that the Final Fantasy games must be close to that number, without any concept of what that number actually entails.

It's not that someone is asserting things without evidence; this is the internet, it's almost expected. It's that what they're asserting sounds right to objective listeners, even though none of them have evidence either.

[civil_dead]

I swallowed the hype, hopefully I won't throw up.

This is the first game where I read a related novella prior to purchase.
Ditto on the hype. And, embarrassingly enough, perhaps in the novella as well. If the universe is as detailed as they make it sound, getting immersed might be interesting.

EDIT: Consider me on the Hype Train. I just ordered the book. Yeesh.

[Xenkylm]

It always sounds fishy to me when people jump in and say 'Well, game X already did that!' when they have no evidence. Is there a word for this phenomenon?

Well, there's a phrase for it, at least: "talking out of your ass," or, if you're from England, "talking out of your bottom."

There's a crazed FFX fan who apparently transcribed the whole script (of the main story, at least), and plopped it into organized chunks on the internet. Very nice job, and the website is pretty easy to manage. I cut one of the sections and pasted into word, and even with stage direction (!!!), the section was about 1000 words (~4 pages double-spaced with images). It seems like he broke the script down into about 10 sections each for 3 main parts, so we're only really talking 30,000 - 40,000 words (if we're being generous and including the stage direction).

Maybe I missed a special 1000-section page, but again, I'm willing to bet that the total falls short of 2.5mil. The info is out there, if anyone is crazy enough to cut and paste the whole thing. It'd probably take an hour, but I'm already convinced enough not to bother.

[Kweli]

After seeing how Witcher does good vs. evil i dont know if i could go back to the old way...

The old way feels linear... Like;
If i choose option A, im picking good...
If i choose option b, im picking BAD...

As opposed to witcher where;
I dont know if i should choose option A because of the following reasons <list reasons>
I dont know if i should choose option B because of these TOTALLY different reasons...

Either way, I think Mass Effect has the potential to be great. The only reasons i hated KOTOR was the turn-based feel of it... the constant pauses for every battle... It felt to slow for me. Hopefully this new FPS spin will be more action oriented.

[Heretic Machine]

You really think this game needs a demo to know if you're going to like it? Come on, Gorvi.

The only game Bioware has made that was even marginally good was NWN, and the things that made it good are not going to be a factor in Mass Effect (multiplayer and modability). So yeah, a demo is necessary.

[Jack B]

Ditto on the hype. And, embarrassingly enough, perhaps in the novella as well. If the universe is as detailed as they make it sound, getting immersed might be interesting.

I'm 2/3 through the Mass Effect novel. It's really, really good. I'd highly recommend it. My girlfriend and I read the first 100 pages together, because I wanted to get her into it prior to playing the game. She isn't normally a sci-fi fan, but got so into the novel she finished it on her own in a couple days and now I'm the one playing catch up. I should get close on my flight home tonight.

Get the novel. She say's it sets the stage for the game really well. I can't wait to see if Batarians will tilt their heads to the left or right during our conversations. :)

[Jack B]

Ditto on the hype. And, embarrassingly enough, perhaps in the novella as well. If the universe is as detailed as they make it sound, getting immersed might be interesting.

I think it is. I'm 2/3 through the Mass Effect novel. It's really, really good. I'd highly recommend it.

My girlfriend and I read the first 100 pages together, because I wanted to get her into the story prior to playing the game. She isn't normally a sci-fi fan, but got so into the novel she finished it on her own in a couple days and now I'm the one playing catch up. I should get close to finishing it on my flight home tonight. :)

[roboninja]

Hmph. I want my PC version.

Damn straight. Come on, Bioware, don't be such turncoats.

[bKangy]

Really looking forward to this - I'm going to see about affording it on release.

[drakkarim]

Either way, I think Mass Effect has the potential to be great. The only reasons i hated KOTOR was the turn-based feel of it... the constant pauses for every battle... It felt to slow for me. Hopefully this new FPS spin will be more action oriented.

exactly my issue. this time the pauses are completely optional and seem to be more for using 'specials' rather than needed everytime you want to let a single bullet fly.

[astranoir]

Everything I hear makes me more excited than ever.

[walkstheplanes]

This is going to be annoying:

The player can interrupt the speech of another character, and the character will react appropriately to the interruption (as opposed to a system that simply allows you to skip through dialogue to save time). If the player wants to befriend someone, they must wait until the NPC finishes speaking, deterring the player from constantly interrupting NPCs.

With 2.5 million words, that's just fucking irritating if I want to get through a part quickly.

[Mantooth]

The only game Bioware has made that was even marginally good was NWN, and the things that made it good are not going to be a factor in Mass Effect (multiplayer and modability). So yeah, a demo is necessary.

Fortunately myself and millions of others disagree.

[Heretic Machine]

This is going to be annoying:



With 2.5 million words, that's just fucking irritating if I want to get through a part quickly.

Yeah, no kidding. Imagine playing through a Final Fantasy game, waiting for everyone to get finish saying whatever asinine paragraph they've been assigned.

[Goronmon]

With 2.5 million words, that's just fucking irritating if I want to get through a part quickly.So, you are mad because the characters in-game will treat you like the impatient bastard you really are? ;)

[Kweli]

This is going to be annoying:

With 2.5 million words, that's just fucking irritating if I want to get through a part quickly.

If the story is good, i should want to listen to them..
If the story sucks then im going to be screwed.. Because most of Biowares games focus on story over combat

But i know what you mean.. sometimes you NEED to skip the conversation (maybe you re-loaded the game to a earlier stage)

[51|RandoM]

You really think this game needs a demo to know if you're going to like it? Come on, Gorvi.

I need a demo. I didn't like KotoR or Jade Empire and what I've seen and heard about the combat in this game makes me think I probably won't like it either.

[Arthen]

Actually, it's not quite that easy. A bad demo can still hurt a good game.


yep... hype is there and thefore risk in a demo..


and when a game only has ok hype a demo can do wonders *cough* *cough* CRACKDOWN

[civil_dead]

exactly my issue. this time the pauses are completely optional and seem to be more for using 'specials' rather than needed everytime you want to let a single bullet fly.
IIRC, the "pauses" in the combat were optional for all Bioware console games. In fact, I remember you could tweak it a little bit further than simply "on" or "off".

[Atorak]

Yeah, no kidding. Imagine playing through a Final Fantasy game, waiting for everyone to get finish saying whatever asinine paragraph they've been assigned.
When games are good enough, I always turn off the text, and just listen to the voices. Makes you feel less like you're playing a game and more like you're actually listening to people speak.

I fully plan on doing that for Mass Effect. I suggest other people do the same, you might appreciate the game that much more. I mean, it's like constantly fast forwarding through the LOTR movies because there is too much talking. You're free to do so, but you're definitely missing out.

[walkstheplanes]

So, you are mad because the characters in-game will treat you like the impatient bastard you really are? ;)

Lol. When I finish the game, NPC's will gather and talk about me:

He was a champion... A hero of the people... Who saved the galaxy, if not the entire universe! He defeated the hordes of Harketria VI, toppled the evil robot ninja kingdom of Yugoth Prime...

But he was an asshole and never let anyone finish their sentences.

[Telefrog]

When games are good enough, I always turn off the text, and just listen to the voices. Makes you feel less like you're playing a game and more like you're actually listening to people speak.

I fully plan on doing that for Mass Effect. I suggest other people do the same, you might appreciate the game that much more. I mean, it's like constantly fast forwarding through the LOTR movies because there is too much talking. You're free to do so, but you're definitely missing out.

Exactly my way of thinking. I found that if I have the subtitle text on in any game, I'll read faster than they talk and get all impatient whereas if I leave it off, I will pay more attention to the what and how they are saying their lines.

It's sort of like when I was in grade school and I would get completely frustrated by having to listen to my classmates read aloud from books we were studying. I would read ahead because I would get bored and then be totally caught off guard when it was my turn to read.

[Kelegacy]

The only game Bioware has made that was even marginally good was NWN, and the things that made it good are not going to be a factor in Mass Effect (multiplayer and modability). So yeah, a demo is necessary.

MDK2, Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2...those were damn fine games, so you are very wrong. After BG2, however, each game was slightly worse than the one before it (there have been 3: NWN, KotOR, Jade Empire). Hopefully Mass Effect breaks the cycle.

We will never see a game on the consoles like BG2, or any CRPG beyond those Diablo-style clones. Games used to be so awesome on the PC, but now with the trend towards consoles things just feel...different. We've gotten prettier and more expensive, but we haven't improved on some of the shit that was started a decade or more ago. Seriously, Ultima VII had more interaction and atmosphere than most games do today. BG2 was amazing as well, but Bioware has gone on record saying a game on par with the content of that title will never be attempted by them again. Expensive development cycles have destroyed the games that should have been built upon, instead of cast aside and ignored. Console-style games are indeed greener pastures...green as in moolah, not as in better.

I can't speak much because I'm a console gamer these days. But I fear I have little choice myself. PC gaming isn't what it used to be, especially in the RPG department. Now they're all click-fest Diablo hack and slash clones. Awesome.

/rant

[Kelegacy]

So, you are mad because the characters in-game will treat you like the impatient bastard you really are? ;)

Unfortunately, we've raised a nation of ADD momos. For some reason, many gamers suffer from this disorder. Correlation?

[Telefrog]

/rant

I'm with you in that I mourn the passing of some of the great RPG games of yore, but from a business standpoint can you blame them?

[Phanto]

Good luck with that. How long did it take for Jade Empire to get to the PC?

Jade Empire was shit thats one of the reason they took so long to release it for the PC because it was not that popular/seller, besides when KOTOR was released for the Xbox it soon follow the PC version, most likely this game will follow KOTOR steps in a port for the PC you can bet on that.

[ezzkmo]

It will be mine, oh yes...it will be mine.

[Epix]

I don't understand why people hate Jade Empire so much. It's one of my favourite games. Some of the stories that your group members would tell were so awesome and funny that I would be laughing out loud. One of the few games that has made me do that.

Sadly I won't be playing Mass Effect until around Christmas. I am getting one of my friends to buy the LE for me in the states, so I won't get it until he comes home for Christmas break.

[Citizen Philip]

Damn straight. Come on, Bioware, don't be such turncoats.

They are probably under a NDA and can't say much. Should be nice.

[Telefrog]

Jade Empire was shit thats one of the reason they took so long to release it for the PC because it was not that popular/seller, besides when KOTOR was released for the Xbox it soon follow the PC version, most likely this game will follow KOTOR steps in a port for the PC you can bet on that.

KotOR didn't have the "Xbox exclusive" designation, while Jade Empire did. I'm pretty sure the biggest reason for the PC delay for JE had more to do with the exclusivity portion of whatever deal MS and BioWare had between them.

[Heretic Machine]

MDK2, Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2...those were damn fine games, so you are very wrong.

You have me on MDK2, but I hated Baldur's Gate. I never played the second one, but I just generally did not like the first game. It ranks up there with Everquest in terms of clunkiness, and that just doesn't do much for me. The writing and characters were cool, yes, but that isn't enough for me.

Besides that, the CD juggling in that game was ridiculous.

Anyhow, as to you folks who want to criticize me because I don't like their "no skipping dialog" thing: Can you name one game that has that much writing worth listening to? I can't, not one. Not even my favorite games. This is especially true on multiple play throughs, which might not be such an issue considering that Bioware doesn't seem to understand how to make a game replayable anyway. Having the choices of "Saint" and "Puppy-kicker" just doesn't cut it when the whole game is linear either way, with nothing more than a couple of cinematics and NPC dialog changed between them.

[bean19]

I don't understand why people hate Jade Empire so much. It's one of my favourite games. Some of the stories that your group members would tell were so awesome and funny that I would be laughing out loud. One of the few games that has made me do that.

Reasons I disliked Jade Empire:

-The combat was ridiculously easy and cheap.
-The allies were not balanced. The chick who provided regeneration of your chi (or whatever) was by far the best in every situation.
-Long and frequent load screens. I quit because of this more than the other reasons. . . at the arena - when I just couldn't take the loading in and out any more.

[Zeal]

Jade Empire owned, KoTOR pretty much was the best RPG since CT, and Mass Effect will surely own. My only hope is that the FPS-based combat doesn't get tiresome. I also want some up close and personal melee action, like with KoTOR and Jade.

[Epix]

Reasons I disliked Jade Empire:

-The combat was ridiculously easy and cheap.
-The allies were not balanced. The chick who provided regeneration of your chi (or whatever) was by far the best in every situation.
-Long and frequent load screens. I quit because of this more than the other reasons. . . at the arena - when I just couldn't take the loading in and out any more.

The loading I will agree with, but it didn't bother me that much. It wasn't any worse than in KOTOR. I actually really liked the combat. I thought it worked well. What part of it did you think was cheap?

I also used a lot of allies. The guy that gives you the drunken style was fun, but I will agree that she was the best (except for the guy near the end that provides you with both chi and health regeneration) unless you used a lot of focus or liked someone fighting with you.

[walkstheplanes]

Anyhow, as to you folks who want to criticize me because I don't like their "no skipping dialog" thing: Can you name one game that has that much writing worth listening to? I can't, not one. Not even my favorite games. This is especially true on multiple play throughs, which might not be such an issue considering that Bioware doesn't seem to understand how to make a game replayable anyway. Having the choices of "Saint" and "Puppy-kicker" just doesn't cut it when the whole game is linear either way, with nothing more than a couple of cinematics and NPC dialog changed between them.

I totally get you here. For this reason, I'm hesitant to get this game... I just see it causing a LOT of grief/annoyance in addition to adding needless hours to the game. Imagine playing KOTOR without skipping dialogue... Jesus christ.

Now, if the writing was on par with PS:T, then I'd be less hesitant, but then replays through with the same dialogue would get annoying.

[Brinstar00]

Personally, I've liked all the Bioware stuff. All the old computer based stuff and all the console stuff. I'll play almost any rpg and Bioware does some great story based games. I think you can find fault with any game developer out there. Hell, even games that have sold millions of copies, you can find faults with. There were problems with Oblivion and I played the shit out of that game and I'll play the shit out of this one too. I also think that with all the skills that you'll be able to have it should give you a multitude of ways to play the game other than light side/dark side.

[Heretic Machine]

Personally, I've liked all the Bioware stuff. All the old computer based stuff and all the console stuff. I'll play almost any rpg and Bioware does some great story based games. I think you can find fault with any game developer out there. Hell, even games that have sold millions of copies, you can find faults with. There were problems with Oblivion and I played the shit out of that game and I'll play the shit out of this one too. I also think that with all the skills that you'll be able to have it should give you a multitude of ways to play the game other than light side/dark side.

The question isn't whether or not a game has flaws, it is if those flaws outweigh it's total value. In the case of Bioware's recent offerings, it definitely does, for me. I bought KOTOR when it came out, and played through it one time. Not only did I only play through it one time, but that one experience was pretty mediocre. Thus, KOTOR was not worth $50 for me. I don't expect Mass Effect to be better, so it certainly won't be worth $60. Maybe $20 or $30, but most 360 games that get any kind of sales don't seem to drop that far in price. Now add in the fact that it comes out very close to Mario Galaxy and Rock Band...

[51|RandoM]

Besides that, the CD juggling in that game was ridiculous.

Is there some reason you didn't copy all the disks to your harddrive? It was a supported option.

There is an ini file that specifies the location of each disk so you could pretty much put them anywhere you wanted.

Swapping 5 disks plus the expansion disk must've sucked, glad I didn't have to do that. ;)

[Heretic Machine]

Is there some reason you didn't copy all the disks to your harddrive? It was a supported option.

Because when the game came out, that would of taken up a huge amount of my hard-disk space. I had like a 10gb drive back then.

[walkstheplanes]

Because when the game came out, that would of taken up a huge amount of my hard-disk space. I had like a 10gb drive back then.

Oh man, I remember full install for Syndicate Wars was 200 MB, and I had a 100 MB harddrive at the time.

[Kyro]

MDK2, Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2...those were damn fine games, so you are very wrong. After BG2, however, each game was slightly worse than the one before it (there have been 3: NWN, KotOR, Jade Empire). Hopefully Mass Effect breaks the cycle.

We will never see a game on the consoles like BG2, or any CRPG beyond those Diablo-style clones. Games used to be so awesome on the PC, but now with the trend towards consoles things just feel...different. We've gotten prettier and more expensive, but we haven't improved on some of the shit that was started a decade or more ago. Seriously, Ultima VII had more interaction and atmosphere than most games do today. BG2 was amazing as well, but Bioware has gone on record saying a game on par with the content of that title will never be attempted by them again. Expensive development cycles have destroyed the games that should have been built upon, instead of cast aside and ignored. Console-style games are indeed greener pastures...green as in moolah, not as in better.

I can't speak much because I'm a console gamer these days. But I fear I have little choice myself. PC gaming isn't what it used to be, especially in the RPG department. Now they're all click-fest Diablo hack and slash clones. Awesome.

/rant

Maybe I'm totally making this up, but didn't Bioware say Dragon Age (again, am I making this up? I haven't heard anything about it since E3) was going to be comparable to the depth of Baldurs Gate.

[Shadowstorm]

2.5 million words. That's incredible.

[karak]

I don't understand why people hate Jade Empire so much. It's one of my favourite games. Some of the stories that your group members would tell were so awesome and funny that I would be laughing out loud. One of the few games that has made me do that.

Sadly I won't be playing Mass Effect until around Christmas. I am getting one of my friends to buy the LE for me in the states, so I won't get it until he comes home for Christmas break.

I play Jade empire like once every three months. I adore that game.

[karak]

I don't understand why people hate Jade Empire so much. It's one of my favourite games. Some of the stories that your group members would tell were so awesome and funny that I would be laughing out loud. One of the few games that has made me do that.

Sadly I won't be playing Mass Effect until around Christmas. I am getting one of my friends to buy the LE for me in the states, so I won't get it until he comes home for Christmas break.

I play Jade empire like once every three months. I adore that game.
And its funny. Maybe I play these games differently but I don't notice the loading on them. I go very slow through them.

[Ebon Deth]

I hope Bioware moves away from the whole light and dark thing in the future. Seems like each new game they create has two tunnels you can take, one correct response according to your playstyle.

Dialogue option 1 "Here, take this money, heal your son."
Option 2: "I care not for your son. Prepare to die!"

Probably all of their games in the future will have this amount of "depth", since it seems like a standard feature for them now. I played through Jade Empire being purely good the entire time, but one action towards the end of the game made me get the evil ending. Basically your actions meant jack shit in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, they should be like every other RPG that completely goes along a predetermined path with NO options!

[Heretic Machine]

Yeah, they should be like every other RPG that completely goes along a predetermined path with NO options!

Doesn't really matter when the choices are

Pet the Puppy ------> Proceed to saving the universe.
Ignore the Puppy ---> Proceed to saving the universe.
Kick the puppy -----> Proceed to saving the universe.

If your choices don't have any significant effect on things, then why bother implementing them to begin with? Saying that we can swap out evil and good characters at will basically confirms that this will be the case once again.

[kefka95]

I'm having a hard time swallowing the 2.5 million words thing. If they say it's there then I'm sure it is (not like anyone's going to count), but consider this. I have an audiobook in MP3 format of Dune, which as I recall is ~600 pages in book form. The entire reading is about 27 hours long, and takes up 765mb in the form of low quality MP3 files.

Now, someone earlier in the thread had figured out that 2.5 million words is ~3,500 pages, which sounds like it could be about right for a mass market paperback sized book such as Dune. So if 600 pages takes 27 hours to read (at a non-rushed, enjoyable pace), that means 3,500 pages is ~150 *hours* worth of audio. And at the compression rate of my MP3 audiobook, that's 4.5gb worth of audio, which would be over half of the disc.

Now I don't doubt that they're using some uber-compression scheme to cram all that in there, but still, that's insane. I have a hard time believing they made a game so big that all of that text has room to fit in there in some sort of coherent way. Think about the last 1,000 page book you read (if you've read any that big), then multiply it by 3.5, and that's how much text is in the game, and voiced nonetheless? I'm not sure people are realizing just how much text that actually is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as excited as anyone for this game (and those calculations are purely conjecture), but I can't help but be skeptical when they start throwing out these ridiculously huge numbers. Just my two cents.

[DigiWiz]

I'm having a hard time swallowing the 2.5 million words thing. If they say it's there then I'm sure it is (not like anyone's going to count), but consider this. I have an audiobook in MP3 format of Dune, which as I recall is ~600 pages in book form. The entire reading is about 27 hours long, and takes up 765mb in the form of low quality MP3 files.

Now, someone earlier in the thread had figured out that 2.5 million words is ~3,500 pages, which sounds like it could be about right for a mass market paperback sized book such as Dune. So if 600 pages takes 27 hours to read (at a non-rushed, enjoyable pace), that means 3,500 pages is ~150 *hours* worth of audio. And at the compression rate of my MP3 audiobook, that's 4.5gb worth of audio, which would be over half of the disc.

Now I don't doubt that they're using some uber-compression scheme to cram all that in there, but still, that's insane. I have a hard time believing they made a game so big that all of that text has room to fit in there in some sort of coherent way. Think about the last 1,000 page book you read (if you've read any that big), then multiply it by 3.5, and that's how much text is in the game, and voiced nonetheless? I'm not sure people are realizing just how much text that actually is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm as excited as anyone for this game (and those calculations are purely conjecture), but I can't help but be skeptical when they start throwing out these ridiculously huge numbers. Just my two cents.

All player lines must be VO'd twice too, one for the male version and one for the female version.

I think text in audio books is delivered about 30% slower than in games however, that might reduce the size a bit.

The number seems wrong however, this page states that KotOR had 250 000 words of VO and >500 000 words total due to item descriptions:
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/383/383037p1.html

I doubt that Mass Effect is 10 times the size of KotOR, that seems wrong - unless all the item and planet descriptions are part of the word count or so. And all the aliens in Kotor used procedural gibberish VO if I remember correctly.

In any case I'm glad that they appear to have more than the 3 voice actors that were used in Oblivion ... even though Patrick Steward marginally beats Seth Green and Lance Hendrickson (http://masseffect.bioware.com/gallery/).

As for compression - toolkits like RAD Gametools or XACT can provide better compression than mp3 and I think the 360 hardware has special support for audio processing that allows for more cpu intensive compression methods to be used on the files.

[mister_slim]

I will absolutely take that bet. How much, $100? $200? Single-spaced, with no line-breaks, a 2.5 million word script would hover somewhere around 3,500 pages. There is no way in hell the script for any of the last two major FF games approach 2.5 million.

For those of you who are fond of analogies, 2.5 million words would be like reading the entire Lord of the Rings trilogy (~400k words) about six times.

Or all the dialogue in Planescape: Torment three times.

[mister_slim]

All player lines must be VO'd twice too, one for the male version and one for the female version.

I think text in audio books is delivered about 30% slower than in games however, that might reduce the size a bit.

The number seems wrong however, this page states that KotOR had 250 000 words of VO and >500 000 words total due to item descriptions:
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/383/383037p1.html

I doubt that Mass Effect is 10 times the size of KotOR, that seems wrong - unless all the item and planet descriptions are part of the word count or so. And all the aliens in Kotor used procedural gibberish VO if I remember correctly.

In any case I'm glad that they appear to have more than the 3 voice actors that were used in Oblivion ... even though Patrick Steward marginally beats Seth Green and Lance Hendrickson (http://masseffect.bioware.com/gallery/).

As for compression - toolkits like RAD Gametools or XACT can provide better compression than mp3 and I think the 360 hardware has special support for audio processing that allows for more cpu intensive compression methods to be used on the files.

I would guess that many of the lines are assembled from component parts with post-processing to hide the seams.

[Darkkoji]

You really think this game needs a demo to know if you're going to like it? Come on, Gorvi.


No, I just would just want to play a couple of minutes for free. ;)

[Seiven]

Ditto on the hype. And, embarrassingly enough, perhaps in the novella as well. If the universe is as detailed as they make it sound, getting immersed might be interesting.

EDIT: Consider me on the Hype Train. I just ordered the book. Yeesh.

I ordered a copy of the book yesterday as well...I have been a voyeur on these forums for far too long and finally signed up yesterday. This game has had very little hype compared to the hype trains for COD4, Halo 3, and even Bioshock. I wasn't really anticipating this game until I read more about it a little over a month ago. This game will be the sleeper hit of the year I think; I just hope the combat system doesn't suck. I enjoyed KOTOR and KOTOR II and even Jade Empire. I do have to admit I downloaded EVERYTHING from the Mass Effect site and have all my computers set to one of the wallpapers...I am creating my own hype train. Choo! Choo!

[Ink Asylum]

Something to keep in mind when considering the 2.5 million count and trying to extrapolate game length: You will not be hearing 2.5 million words in any single play through. Not even if you hunt down every side quest and let every character rattle on without interruption.

Mass Effect has dialogue trees, as opposed to Final Fantasy's strictly scripted dialogue. A five minute conversation in Mass Effect means you probably only heard maybe one-third of what that character could have said, while a similar conversation in a Final Fantasy game will play out the same for every single player and therefore require one-third the recorded dialogue.

From what I've seen of the dialogue in Mass Effect you typically have an average of 3 responses: Asshole, Neutral, Fawning. So there's essentially three whole conversations recorded for both player and NPC, and your experienced dialogue will pull lines from all 3.

[imgneevrythng]

am i the only person that doesnt care about this game?

it doesnt look THAT spectacular.

[Kyro]

am i the only person that doesnt care about this game?

it doesnt look THAT spectacular.

When you say it doesn't look THAT spectacular, are you saying that it looks only mildly spectacular? And I doubt you're the only one who doesn't care, but then who asked you? ; )

[imgneevrythng]

the gameplay looks very dull and boring. wow cool you can blow stuff up and can customize your weapons and this and that. when i watched a video of the gameplay, whoever was playing kept stopping to pull up some kind of "quick" menu to change weapons or abilities or whatever....every 6 seconds he was doing this.

im sure a bunch of you are amped because they made kotr and neverwinter nights...but this game just doesnt have too much going for me. i like the idea of an epic storyline, the unlimited* exploration and ability to upgrade your weapons but how many other games are like that and have promised all of that?

my guess is its just going to be the average 3rd person shooter/rpg with better graphics and a longer storyline. big whoop.

and no one asked me, just stating my opinion.

[drakkarim]

the gameplay looks very dull and boring. wow cool you can blow stuff up and can customize your weapons and this and that. when i watched a video of the gameplay, whoever was playing kept stopping to pull up some kind of "quick" menu to change weapons or abilities or whatever....

dull and boring is subjective, i happen to think the same of the halo3 gameplay, most would disagree with me, that's fine, everyone likes something different.

the quick menu that you mentioned had me worried as well, as i hated the thought of the constant interruptions, but i soon learned that that menu was completely optional to go into, my understanding is that its the equivalent to say playing CoD4 and constantly switching your weapons/grenades/knife for each bad guy, its nice to know you can, but most people aren't going to do that while playing. i think the vids were just trying to be cool and were showing off being l33t or some crap.

this is still the game i bought the system for a year ago.

[Epix]

this is still the game i bought the system for a year ago.

That's the same for me. I think it's the only game I really want that's not also coming to the computer any time soon.

[Ink Asylum]

This is the game I have been waiting on in order to buy a 360, though Rock Band is now making the purchase even more worthwhile.

[drakkarim]

That's the same for me. I think it's the only game I really want that's not also coming to the computer any time soon.

yup, the little novella got me excited as well, its the only book i've read since college :) (aside from manuals/etc)

They need to borrow that "believe" commercial from halo3 :)

[Epix]

I have that book, but haven't started reading it yet. It's next on my list.

[BioGeorg]

I would guess that many of the lines are assembled from component parts with post-processing to hide the seams.
No. All lines in the game are fully VO'd by a voice actor - no assembling from components, you would lose all emotion, etc.

[BioGeorg]

When you say it doesn't look THAT spectacular, are you saying that it looks only mildly spectacular? And I doubt you're the only one who doesn't care, but then who asked you? ; )

It's just the best looking game on the market, well it will be in a few days :)

[Alaylah]

When EverQuest 2 launched, they had 130 hrs/1.5 million words supposedly. I can see ME's numbers as feasible because EQ2 added voicover in the last 6 months of development whereas ME has been planning it the entire time. Maybe a bad comparison, but it's what popped into my head :D.

[Jack B]

the gameplay looks very dull and boring. wow cool you can blow stuff up and can customize your weapons and this and that. when i watched a video of the gameplay, whoever was playing kept stopping to pull up some kind of "quick" menu to change weapons or abilities or whatever....every 6 seconds he was doing this.

im sure a bunch of you are amped because they made kotr and neverwinter nights...but this game just doesnt have too much going for me. i like the idea of an epic storyline, the unlimited* exploration and ability to upgrade your weapons but how many other games are like that and have promised all of that?

my guess is its just going to be the average 3rd person shooter/rpg with better graphics and a longer storyline. big whoop.

and no one asked me, just stating my opinion.

Everyone's tastes are different and for you it may seem boring. I for instance am completely uninterested in Comic Books and Arcade Racing games, but I accept that other people love them.

My question to you is are you making a prediction on what "most" people or reviewers will experience or just your personal opinion.

If it's what you predict then what not take a stab at predicting the metascore? I'd almost bet it will be in the 90's. Given the 360 only has about 11 games in the 90's out of nearly 300 games, that's saying a lot.

What's your prediction? Or were you just telling us you think you won't like it. I'd agree you won't like it. However, I won't agree you speak for anything close to a majority. The jands on previews have been very good. Most previews are more forgiving than reviews, but I think the review scores will hold up. I've made my prediction. What's yours? :)

[Kweli]

2.5 Million Words... Doesnt mean they will all be in conversations you will listen to..

Remember, alot of words will be heard while you pass people... enemies screams.. etc...
You wont have to sit and watch someone talk 2.5 Million Words

This is mainly a RPG... Whats up with these guys comparing it to Halo and CoD4.. This isnt a FPS (although it does have FPS combat)

[drakkarim]

i don't care if its 2.5 or 1, its still a huge amount of voice, and its still a huge game, and i'm still very excited for this game.