'Crackdown' on the horizon for videogames

[splatstick]

In the "Shock Journalism" department today, the world overreacts (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/21/tech/main710786.shtml)to the revelation that San Andreas may not, in fact, be for young children.

High school teacher Deb Perryman told Bowers that she had no idea what was actually in certain video games until she was asked to review them for a statewide task force.

“I was really shocked,” she says. “They were even to me more graphic than the most graphic movie I've ever seen.”

Rep. Joe Baca, D-Calif., said this week the video game industry needs a good dose of government oversight and renewed a call for a law requiring the FTC to determine if the video game industry's labeling practices are unfair or deceptive.Uh-oh. Thanks, Mrs. Clinton, for bending over videogames at your political convenience. Does anyone else think that "a good dose of government oversight" sounds a little ominous?

[Cha-Ka]

“I was really shocked,” she says. “They were even to me more graphic than the most graphic movie I've ever seen.”]

This just in: The most graphic movies Deb Perryman has ever seen have been revealed as Stayin' Alive, Jurasik Park, and The Muppets Take Manhattan. Film at 11.

[Orphiuchus]

I just hope this bites her in the but by pissing off the whole 18-25 age bracket vote that the democrats always dominate.

[TheKeck]

This just in: The most graphic movies Deb Perryman has ever seen have been revealed as Stayin' Alive, Jurasik Park, and The Muppets Take Manhattan. Film at 11.

Seriously! I've never seen carnage like that in Saving Private Ryan, for example, in a video game; and that is a tasteful violent movie.

[ElPresidente]

Albeit a fairly mediocre film. :P

[Cha-Ka]

Well, the media will quote anyone who'll speak into the microphone when it comes to hot topics like this, so I'm not really suprised to see quotes like Deb's in the article. Still, asking a school teacher's opinion of violent games can be a bit like asking a devout priest "so tell us, how offensive was the pornography?"

[falak]

I saw the same kind of idiocy awhile ago on ITV "news". They brought parents into the back of their TV van to play on GTA:SA. "I don't want my kids playing this!" they proclaimed! Audible gasp! Maybe that's why it has an 18 logo on the box! It didn't come with the whole "government oversight" thing, though. Good luck with that.

[Mondopest]

It's pretty much just a political stunt by Clinton to help garner her support for the 2008 election. I hate politicians.

[rein]

Guys... ...I think there has been some over-reaction on the part of politicians and media. However, Rockstar tried to screw over the ratings board and should be held accountable. Seriously, Rockstar is to blame, they are the ones who left the code in. If games start being censored more here in America, we can thank Rockstar and their attempt at punking the ESRB.

[Deadend]

Uh uh, no way in HEELLLL do I want the government involved in games here.

[Metal Jesus]

I'm hoping with ban horror novels too. I heard you could just walk into any book store and buy a Stephen King or Clive Barker novel!!

That just ain't right.

[if76]

Why are the democrats so cool about everything but videogames? Seriously despite being Jewish and very liberal I would have voted Bush/Cheney in 2000 just so there'd be no chance of Lieberman becoming president.

This seems like an issue for conservatives who want to teach abstinance to Africa not leftwing democrats.

[rein]

...but anyone under the age of 18 can't walk into the same bookstore and buy playboy to go along with their Stephen King novel. There is a difference... ..I still think Rockstar had a publicity stunt backfire on them. Unfortunately, it could affect on the entire industry.

I hate these loudmouth politicians as much as everyone else. However, in this case Rockstar gave them the ammo.

[splatstick]

If games start being censored more here in America, we can thank Rockstar and their attempt at punking the ESRB.

...Or we can blame the government, that's what I plan on doing. And the people that elected them, fuckers.

[Groo]

You think videogames are bad? Read the Preacher comic book.

[Paltry]

ive said it before and Ill say it again

Anyone up for a revolution?

[if76]

...but anyone under the age of 18 can't walk into the same bookstore and buy playboy to go along with their Stephen King novel.

Yes that's true but playboy is government regulated pornography. The hot coffee content was no way worse than what you'd see in an R-rated movie.

[johnperkins21]

One thing I've noticed, is all this talk of there being nudity in GTA:SA. Even in the Hot Coffee "mod", I was under the impression that both parties were fully clothed. Am I wrong? Did I miss the nudity in the game?

[MrPoo]

I hate to have side with politicians on this... but the fact remains--GTA:SA DID have this stuff left in it. It was only a matter of time for some teen to find it, and post about it...

I don't want the government any more involved in games than necessary... but Rockstar is to blame on this. I'm extremely disappointed in their complete lack of responsibility on this.

All competent PC/consoler gamers know that it was rated Mature. But how many adults bother checking on that? The rules and the reality don't always equal... legally, Rockstar should have planned for the presumed fact that the vast majority of GTA players are LESS than 21, and have acted accordingly. Leave hidden Adult content out--nudity or not, adult-themed games with men rear-ending chicks is not kid-friendly.

If the crap hits the fan, so far as a major crackdown on PC and console games, and we end up with a bunch of Care Bears game clones, we know who helped start it, in the most major way... Rockstar.

Thanks, guys.

At least admit you screwed up.

[Paranoia]

Way to go stir up the hornets nest, Rockstar.

[B_Money]

I just hope this bites her in the but by pissing off the whole 18-25 age bracket vote that the democrats always dominate.

Yea, those two votes are going to really hurt Mrs. Clinton.

[AbeLincoln]

Rep. Joe Baca, D-Calif., said this week the video game industry needs a good dose of government oversight
This quote is broken, let me fix it.
"The government needs a good dose of common sense gamers."
There, fixed.

[mister_slim]

I just hope this bites her in the but by pissing off the whole 18-25 age bracket vote that the democrats always dominate.
I know, it's so tragic that adults can't buy the games they want because of Hillary Clinton. The horror of eighteen-year-olds not being able to purchase M-rated games.

See, this is funny. Clinton just wants the ESRB to do their jobs, which they are apparently unable to handle (do they even have any lobbyists? It doesn't appear so). Meanwhile, the Republicans, particularly the religious factions, would prefer this game not be available for sale period. Obviously, blindly demonizing Clinton is the answer to this problem.

[IndependentGMR]

I'm a religious Republican, and I have no qualms with GTA. Boo ya!

[Blue]

I'm hoping with ban horror novels too. I heard you could just walk into any book store and buy a Stephen King or Clive Barker novel!!

That just ain't right.

Clive Barker OMGBBQ I love you!!! PostedOval is my best friend and YOU CAN'T HAVE HIM.

[Himsa II]

One thing I've noticed, is all this talk of there being nudity in GTA:SA. Even in the Hot Coffee "mod", I was under the impression that both parties were fully clothed. Am I wrong? Did I miss the nudity in the game?
nope.

There was another player created mod that took off the laydees clothes.

I swaer, the Monsters Ball movie sex scene was WAYYYYYYY worse than the hot coffee mod. That scene had ball slapping SFX. Last I heard, that still had an R rating, not an NC 17. >_>

[ElPresidente]

I know, it's so tragic that adults can't buy the games they want because of Hillary Clinton. The horror of eighteen-year-olds not being able to purchase M-rated games.

See, this is funny. Clinton just wants the ESRB to do their jobs, which they are apparently unable to handle (do they even have any lobbyists? It doesn't appear so). Meanwhile, the Republicans, particularly the religious factions, would prefer this game not be available for sale period. Obviously, blindly demonizing Clinton is the answer to this problem.

The ESRB are doing their jobs and they have done the right thing here. What? Is the ESRB meant to inspect every line of code to discover aspects to a game that 99% of the consumer population would never have even known existed were it not for an industrious modder.

Clinton has demonised video games for a very long time, that is the reasoning behind the lash out.

[H.Bogard]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell

[Thenetcase]

Why do people think that the government needs to be involved in regulating morality like this? If you think it's wrong, don't do it. It's that freaking easy.

We've come a LONG WAY from what the government was set up for.

But there is a rule through-out history. Democracies always tend to decay into Dictatorships or Marshall rule?

-TNC-

[Cuba]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hellI completely forgot about consulting Maddox on his opinion, thanks. :)

[EL CABONG]

Why are the democrats so cool about everything but videogames? Seriously despite being Jewish and very liberal I would have voted Bush/Cheney in 2000 just so there'd be no chance of Lieberman becoming president.

This seems like an issue for conservatives who want to teach abstinance to Africa not leftwing democrats.
yes but most dems are for more government. And any kind of government oversite would be more Government(and cost tax money and parents would still buy there kids m rated games)

Tipper gore is lefty and because of her throwing a hissy fit back in the day now Cds have clean versions. which is just a pain in the ass more than anything just means I don't buy cd's at walmart and have to go to a music store. Video games are the new 2live Crew.

[Shifteh]

Thank God I live in Canada. We're pre-occupied with crazy things like social welfare, housing, and continuing this economic boost.

Not to dump on the US or anything, but things like that will never happen here. We're more worried about kids being able to kill in games than see a nipple.

[EL CABONG]

I know, it's so tragic that adults can't buy the games they want because of Hillary Clinton. The horror of eighteen-year-olds not being able to purchase M-rated games.

See, this is funny. Clinton just wants the ESRB to do their jobs, which they are apparently unable to handle (do they even have any lobbyists? It doesn't appear so). Meanwhile, the Republicans, particularly the religious factions, would prefer this game not be available for sale period. Obviously, blindly demonizing Clinton is the answer to this problem.
I have never heard of any"Republicans prefering this game not be available for sale". maybe prefering its selling to minors be bannned ,which is what the 2 sentors from ny want and this Rep from CA who is also a dem

the ESRB is doing its jobs parents are not.

Clinton doesn't just want anything expect be the next prez.

As for "blindly demonizing" are you on crack? Its not "blindly" demonizing her because she apparently doesn't want the 1st Admendment to apply to video games. Its demonizing her for a good reason.

Ever hear of white water?Or when bill was first in office she use to call her self the co-president. Or how she flew around on air force all across ny state so she could campain in a Dem state with alot of electoral votes. Ny being a state to which before her running she had never lived in and then claimed to be a "real New Yorker". and a bunch of other sleazy things to many to list here. you can't defend her like she isn't a total sleaze bag or just attacking video games because she want press so she can run for prez. If you do your a dum-ass or so blindly pro Democrate that you are... well blinded.

[splatstick]

But there is a rule through-out history. Democracies always tend to decay into Dictatorships or Marshall rule?

-TNC-

Holy shit, we agree. Maybe I'm being a little cocky in comparing the U.S. to ancient Rome, but it IS following the same trend...

[MosBen]

Wow, the political theory represented in these posts is truly stunning.

[Commissar Rob]

Thank God I live in Canada. We're pre-occupied with crazy things like social welfare, housing, and continuing this economic boost.

Not to dump on the US or anything, but things like that will never happen here. We're more worried about kids being able to kill in games than see a nipple.

And that's the irony here...our fine politicans aren't up in arms because you run assassination missions, hack up folks with chainsaws, etc. etc. ad nauseum. It's because of a poorly rendered sex scene.

I think we've been pwnzed by the Puritans again...

[Goronmon]

The problem I have with all this is the fact that, when it comes down to it, there is effectively no difference between the content needed for Mature and the content rated for AO.

The only reason AO exists is to prevent a game from selling well. I mean think about it. The difference in age between Ma and AO is 1 year. The description of the two ratings are pretty much identical. The only difference comes when you look at the retailers carrying the game. Most won't carry AO rated games. So, sure, 18 and over people can still buy them, but you aren't going to be able to go to Best Buy, Wal-mart, Gamestop, etc to get it.

[Goronmon]

Wow, the political theory represented in these posts is truly stunning.
The lack of adding anything of worth to this discussion is what bugs me more...

[OUX]

I hate to be the one to point out the obvious but the ESRB is not the problem and even Rockstar isn't the problem. The problem is that parents use video games as babysitters while being completely disinterested in learning what they are about. All they know is that peace and quite has a $50 price tag and they are all shocked when they find out what is in them.

[Kefkataran]

Wow, the political theory represented in these posts is truly stunning.

Hey, I'm a poli-theory major, and I at least get a kick out of it. Most of the time.

Kudos to whoever posted the Maddox link. <3.

[Hale]

It's a little silly to 'facism!' about every common sense measure taken to keep very obviously mature video-games out of the hands of kids.

Those of us in the industry have pretty much always known that is we didn't take steps to regulate ourselves *someone* would do it for us.

[MrPoo]

Originally Posted by Thenetcase

But there is a rule through-out history. Democracies always tend to decay into Dictatorships or Marshall rule?

Well, yeah, but America is a representative republic, not a democracy. Direct comparisons to most governments in history aren't entirely fair game.
(I stayed awake in Civics class.)

Of course, the way things are going, it's only a matter of time before we jump down past the democracy setup and go straight to socialism... :(

[Jacob Singer]

Ever hear of white water?Or when bill was first in office she use to call her self the co-president. Or how she flew around on air force all across ny state so she could campain in a Dem state with alot of electoral votes. Ny being a state to which before her running she had never lived in and then claimed to be a "real New Yorker". and a bunch of other sleazy things to many to list here. you can't defend her like she isn't a total sleaze bag or just attacking video games because she want press so she can run for prez. If you do your a dum-ass or so blindly pro Democrate that you are... well blinded.

Actually, if you read this using Jon Stewart's Bush impersonation voice, it almost makes some sort of sense...

[Alexious]

Ever hear of white water?Or when bill was first in office she use to call her self the co-president. Or how she flew around on air force all across ny state so she could campain in a Dem state with alot of electoral votes. Ny being a state to which before her running she had never lived in and then claimed to be a "real New Yorker". and a bunch of other sleazy things to many to list here. you can't defend her like she isn't a total sleaze bag or just attacking video games because she want press so she can run for prez. If you do your a dum-ass or so blindly pro Democrate that you are... well blinded.
NO ONE DIED WHEN CLINTON LIED.

Personally, I'd much rather have a President who lies about having sex than one who lies to lead us into war.

[Mrbunchypants]

"Hi game makers. I'm the goverentment. I here to fuck you up the ass cuz some dumb parent bought an M rated game at walmart to shut there kid up."
*wimper*
"Don't worry the bleeding will stop in a few year"



Just what we don't need.

[Kefkataran]

Of course, the way things are going, it's only a matter of time before we jump down past the democracy setup and go straight to socialism...

Hey, it's worked pretty well for half of Europe so far.

Wait. Ugh. Can we not turn this into another politics discussion? Or is it too late?

[Commissar Rob]

Hey, it's worked pretty well for half of Europe so far.

Wait. Ugh. Can we not turn this into another politics discussion? Or is it too late?

Too late...but at least no one's brought up religion :p

[OUX]

......Jerk

[Kefkataran]

Too late...but at least no one's brought up religion

So a Jew, a Muslim couple, and an Asian walk into a bar.

[Paltry]

and they all say oww

[Blue]

So a Jew, a Muslim couple, and an Asian walk into a bar.

Why is it a Muslim couple, hmmm? Got something against Jews having relationships? Or maybe it's the Asians. It's people like you that give me something to complain about at night. What were we talking about again? Marshmellows? Mmmmm. Sacrilicious.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Uh uh, no way in HEELLLL do I want the government involved in games here.

Amen brother!
I can't imagine how many great games would fall at the hands of some politician trying to gain popularity.

Ugh..government and videogames don't mix!
(unless it is a violent military training sim adapted to be a videogame...or
vice versa)

[H.Bogard]

I completely forgot about consulting Maddox on his opinion, thanks.

Kudos to whoever posted the Maddox link. <3.

welcome x 2

i dont know what this would account for.......but i know a 7 year old kid who plays gtasa ....and hes further along in the game than i am :(

but then again that might have something to do with the fact that i belong to a third world country.

[OUX]

You all realize of course that the easiest way to get politicians off the gamers back is to become a solidified voting block. Then not only would they not try and bring us down they would pander to us…..hmmmm that might be a nice change of pace

[Kefkataran]

You all realize of course that the easiest way to get politicians off the gamers back is to become a solidified voting block. Then not only would they not try and bring us down they would pander to us…..hmmmm that might be a nice change of pace

I think that's probably one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. We have enough "solidified voting block" groups that vote as a group based on only one issue. This one would be just as harmful and even more pointless.

[OUX]

Exactly just as stupid and pointless but they wouldn't pointlessly target gamers anymore.

[Kefkataran]

Exactly just as stupid and pointless but they wouldn't pointlessly target gamers anymore.

Since when has starting a political group around a certain subject stopped that subject from being a point of controversy? There's tons of voting groups centered around a woman's right to choose, but there's still just as many opposed that. Even if our group happened to be exceedingly large, I think there'd still be plenty willing to target gaming.

[Paltry]

so your saying that all these special voting groups serve no purpose?

[splatstick]

Yeah, the "Rock the Vote" and "Vote or Die" campaigns really played a key role in Kerry's win over Bush.

[OUX]

I'm sorry did I say ad campaign? Because I am pretty sure I didn't....wait wait let me scroll up and look.........................no, no there's nothing about an ad campaign up there. That's all those were and yes they were pointless. What I was saying is getting a lobbyist. Do you know why they blame video games for killings? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T TOUCH THE NRA...EVER...PERIOD. "Well that's because of the 2nd amendment" you think, sorry you'd be wrong. Its because of the huge ass load of money their lobbyist throw out, and money is so much more effective at influencing opinions and votes than P. Diddy bling blinging don't you think?

[Paltry]

yea i agree completely oux

p diddy can wash my nuts with a warm wet rag

[Kefkataran]

I agree about P.Diddy.

But as far as a solidified gaming voter block -- I still just don't think it would get big enough to matter. Even if it happened, we'd have to get enough size, money, and power to influence politicans more than the religious groups that invariably are focused against us.

[Paltry]

i didnt know hilary clinton was a religious group

but i see what you mean

Although, as the industry get more and more centralized and corporate I think its only a matter of time until weve got our very own powerful lobbyists

whether thats good or bad who knows

[OUX]

Thats true but as it stands right now the best way to about it is for publishers to pool money together. It doesn't even have to be much say they add a dollar to the cost of a game so it is $51 in the store and they put that dollar into creating a lobbyist. If they just did that how many copies of GTA:SA and Halo2 were sold? With just 2 big hit titles at a dollar increase your already talking serious change. I for one would be willing to shell out the extra dollar.

[Kefkataran]

i didnt know hilary clinton was a religious group

I didn't say religious groups were the ONLY people against us. But it's through actions like this that politicians like Clinton try to gain the favor of certain groups such as religious groups and soccer moms who don't know a thing about games.

the best way to about it is for publishers to pool money together.

Almost definitely not going to happen. I don't think publishers are that interested in protecting the free speech and future of gaming. Should they be? Probably. But I think the majority of them are not.

[OUX]

*sigh* well I said best way I never said it had to be feasible

[Kefkataran]

True enough. :) No doubt it would work the best, it's just too idealistic. Of course the real best way is for people to finally start taking personal responsibility for their actions and monitoring what their children play themselves so we don't need to worry about stupid, boring stuff like this.

[OUX]

Take responsibility? :eek: Now whose being unrealistic ? :)

[Kefkataran]

I figure why not go all out. :p

[mister_slim]

Almost definitely not going to happen. I don't think publishers are that interested in protecting the free speech and future of gaming. Should they be? Probably. But I think the majority of them are not.
Generally, this is the sort of thing groups like the ESA would take care of. You know, like the NRA, MPAA, or RIAA do. Keep the government informed, clear up misunderstandings (such as games being entirely for children), etc. ESRB is a sub-entity of the ESA, btw.

The ESA appears to be rather incompetent. They don't appear to have any presence in Washington.

[Kefkataran]

I don't think I know much about the ESA. Can you hint me with some informative linkies?

[OUX]

Yeah some links would be great.

[splatstick]

I'm sorry did I say ad campaign? Because I am pretty sure I didn't....wait wait let me scroll up and look.........................no, no there's nothing about an ad campaign up there. That's all those were and yes they were pointless. What I was saying is getting a lobbyist. Do you know why they blame video games for killings? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T TOUCH THE NRA...EVER...PERIOD. "Well that's because of the 2nd amendment" you think, sorry you'd be wrong. Its because of the huge ass load of money their lobbyist throw out, and money is so much more effective at influencing opinions and votes than P. Diddy bling blinging don't you think?

Number one, no need to be a douchebag.
Number two, you missed what I was getting at, probably because I wasn't clear. What I mean is that our target demographic came out in record numbers to vote and... it had no visible impact. While it is still important, it means politicans will be catering to those older than us because they carry more sway.
Number three, unless I missed something, where the fuck is the ACLU? Even if this is Rockstars fault, they should be all over this like Jesse Jackson at a hate crime.

[mister_slim]

It's just the Entertainment Software Association, a group funded by the game publishers to serve as lobbyists and advocates for the industry.

[OUX]

Number one, no need to be a douchebag.
Number two, you missed what I was getting at, probably because I wasn't clear. What I mean is that our target demographic came out in record numbers to vote and... it had no visible impact. While it is still important, it means politicans will be catering to those older than us because they carry more sway.
Number three, unless I missed something, where the fuck is the ACLU? Even if this is Rockstars fault, they should be all over this like Jesse Jackson at a hate crime.
Your first point I agree with, sorry I wasn't in the best of moods. My bad. Second while our demographic voted in record numbers,(Only 17% of the entire vote) (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html) it was hardly enough enough to sway anything. You also have to consider who is voting in terms of age and that would be the Baby boomers one of the largest generations ever. The fact is voting for president isn't the problem it is voting on issues concerning media of all kinds. I am also very pessimistic about the fact that our governing body can be bought like a whore by big business. Unfortunatly I don't see this ever changing so we should try and use it to our advantage till they find a new flavor of the week to torment.

[splatstick]

Then it sounds like we don't have a disagreement at all. I wasn't talking about the President, though I can see how you would get that. I was just pointing out that since we aren't a decisive voting group, our pleas to government officials will hold less sway in things like videogames as opposed to old people.

[Kefkataran]

It's just the Entertainment Software Association, a group funded by the game publishers to serve as lobbyists and advocates for the industry.

Interesting. Possibly the least effective lobbying group around, at that.

[OUX]

hmmm.... so basically what were agreeing on is wait 40 years until we are the old people

[Paltry]

pretty much oux

our day will come

[splatstick]

Interesting trivia: It's legal to overthrow the government (can't remember if it's state or federal).
I'm just throwing it out there, kids.

[OUX]

pretty much oux

our day will come

And when that day comes the gaming shall both be glorious and furious.

[splatstick]

And when that day comes the gaming shall both be glorious and furious.

And titillating. ;)

[Varsity]

You'll never guess what I just stumbled over.

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/19970619/greenberg_01.htm

From 1997.

[splatstick]

What is it? You have to be a member to view it.

[falak]

What is it? You have to be a member to view it.
Bugmenot:

Account #1
email: guest[at]gamasutra.com
password: guest

[splatstick]

Wow, if you want to get really really angry, read that article and go to mediafamily.org

[OUX]

*&^@*&*^*&^ the stupid %&*^%^*^& and they can *&%&% put a *&^&%& *&^^(*&^ up their *&@! mediafamily.org are &*%$ing Game Nazis

[Mrbunchypants]

you know what would be funny.

Is to sign up and rate everything we like with green. like all the GTA games.

I'm so evil!!!! :D

[mister_slim]

Interesting trivia: It's legal to overthrow the government (can't remember if it's state or federal).
I'm just throwing it out there, kids.
And, as Master Of Orion taught us, all we need for a revolution is to send lots of Spies.