Gran Turismo Vs. Forza [Archive]

Psykoboy2

10-11-2007, 07:13 AM

Okay, it's not really a battle, but it is Kaz Yamauchi, creator of the GT series, commenting on what many feel to be the 360's equivalent of Gran Turismo - Forza Motorsport.

In an interview with Kikizo (http://games.kikizo.com/features/gt5_kazyamauchi_iv_oct07_p1.asp), Kaz says that Forza is ahead of Gran Turismo as far as feature sets are concerned.

Kikizo: Could you give us your opinion on Forza MotorSport 2 for the Xbox 360, and in particular, the ability to reskin your car in very great detail - are you going to have this degree of superficial car customisation in GT5?

Yamauchi: Straight off the bat, I think that in terms of feature sets, Forza is ahead of us. They have more options, you can do basically anything. We take a different approach obviously - we try to concentrate on what are the core values for a racing game, and we try to elevate those standards up as high as we possibly can. I am having difficulty trying to explain the differences, but one way you can look at it is, you can buy a watch that is super multifunctional, but economical, or a watch that is reduced in functions, but premium - higher end.

I'm not big on the driving sim thing. Most of you know my love for all things Burnout, but I did play Forza 2, and I know at least one person (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/member.php?u=15890) who feels Forza has won out over the GT series. But what about the rest of you? Is Forza seriously giving Gran Turismo a run for it's money or will it even matter anymore by the time GT makes it out of the gate?

Akeldama

10-11-2007, 07:15 AM

Polyphony painted itself into a corner with the GT series. It started well, but such has been the clamouring for high end visuals they have had to make compromises across the board.

The physics of GT4 wasn't really that great (differentials were really borked, for example), and of course there's been no advancement in damage or AI in the series at all.

Some of the GT games are great hotlappers, but overrall I think Forza has surpassed GT by some way.

51|RandoM

10-11-2007, 07:21 AM

Forza 2 is miles ahead of GT seeing as how it has already released a version for this generation whereas GT hasn't.

For me, though, it is pretty simple: I can't play forza on a ps3 and I can't play GT on a 360. Fortunately they're not releasing anywhere close to each other so it isn't like I even have to choose between the two. I played forza2 on the 360 until I got tired of it, I'll play GT on the PS3 until I get tired of it.

Morratut

10-11-2007, 07:29 AM

Just make the game already.

How is that we have two great PGR titles and Forza 2 on the 360 and we still don't have Gran Turismo on the PS3.

Gran Turismo has a lot of ground to catch up on.

Telefrog

10-11-2007, 07:31 AM

Since they release on different schedules, it would seem that an owner of both consoles would have no problems picking them up and playing them since a car enthusiast would be likely to do so. Owners of only one console will pretty much only pick up the game that shows up on theirs if they're interested in the genre. Pretty simple, eh?

P.S. - Forza 2 rocks and GTHD/Prologue/5 can eat it.

Akeldama

10-11-2007, 07:32 AM

GT development has been horribly out of sync with PlayStation hardware since the last generation. You'd think Sony would get things straight so there would be a GT launch title - but no, we had to wait absolutely ages for GT3 on PS2 (worth waiting for at the time though - especially with the wheel) and long time for a game on PS3.

menage

10-11-2007, 07:36 AM

Boring vs boring +:P

51|RandoM

10-11-2007, 07:45 AM

Just make the game already.

How is that we have two great PGR titles and Forza 2 on the 360 and we still don't have Gran Turismo on the PS3.

360 release date US - November 22nd, 2005
Forza 2 release date US - May 29th, 2007

Approximately 17 months between the two

PS3 release date US - November 17th, 2006
Today - October 2007

Approximately 11 months between the two

So hey, if you want to complain about how long it is taking for GT on PS3, do not use Forza 2 as your comparison just yet. PGR, on the other hand, is 2nd tier and the PS3 has 2nd tier racers already.

I'm willing to wait. I'd much rather have a GT that makes great use of the PS3's hardware than a rushed for launch GT that doesn't.

Kamalot

10-11-2007, 07:49 AM

I am having difficulty trying to explain the differences, but one way you can look at it is, you can buy a watch that is super multifunctional, but economical, or a watch that is reduced in functions, but premium - higher end.

I was talking to a woman on the train last night who was telling me her polo shirt cost $80. Mine cost around $12.99 from Target. They were practically identical with the same feature-set and properties. The only real difference was the collar on hers was popped straight into the air, like a peacock's tail.

Edit: The more I think about it, the more this quote applies to the PLAYSTATION 3 and Wii. The Wii has a reduced feature set, is streamlined and designed to do one thing well, play games. PLAYSTATION 3 is designed to be a multifunctional powerhouse.

grognard66

10-11-2007, 07:53 AM

The original Forza was better than any previous GT game and Forza 2 just increases the lead even more. The only thing GT is decent at is as a time trial simulator. It is hard to take Polyphony's claim that it is a hard-core simulator seriously when it doesn't have damage modeling, uses invisible walls, rubber band A/I (catch up A/I), brain-dead A/I that drives on a predetermined path regardless of what's going on around it and only leaderboard online functionality to date.

The free "preview" that's been available on PSN for a while doesn't hold much promise for the franchise. It had a disconcerting look to it that felt like you were driving in front of a 2D Photoshop backdrop.

I think it was Car and Driver that did a test with a professional driver for the original Forza using one of the cars and tracks in the game and the professional driver had a track time within a second of his real-time experience. The drive attributed the difference to the fact he knew he wouldn't actually get hurt playing the game as opposed to driving a real car so he was "slightly" more aggressive. Other than that the driver said that the simulation was the most realistic simulation ever created.

trip1eX

10-11-2007, 08:04 AM

In terms of sales the GT (franchise) slaughters the Forza (franchise.)

Franjo

10-11-2007, 08:08 AM

Forza 2 is hands down the winner. The game has it all.

Telefrog

10-11-2007, 08:09 AM

In terms of sales the GT (franchise) slaughters the Forza (franchise.)

Uhm... OK. In terms of sales, the Harry Potter (franchise) absolutely destroys the Elder Scrolls (franchise.) What's your point?

Kamalot

10-11-2007, 08:10 AM

In terms of sales the GT (franchise) slaughters the Forza (franchise.)

As was pointed out several times in the past (especially in recent Halo 3 discussions) number of units sold does not equal Quality.

Joestar

10-11-2007, 08:17 AM

As was pointed out several times in the past (especially in recent Halo 3 discussions) number of units sold does not equal Quality.

See, for me Kamalot, the GT series was great. GT 1, 2 and 3 were the best driving games (for consoles) when they were first released, so yeah, they had the quality.

GT4 was not bad. It was great, just not as great as Forza once was. However, it'd be unfair to compare GT4 and GTHD to Forza 2 for now though, seeing as one is a last generation game, and the other, more of a tech demo. I do agree though that Forza 2 is currently the king of all console based simulation racing games.

Furious Wang

10-11-2007, 08:29 AM

I am having difficulty trying to explain the differences, but one way you can look at it is, you can buy a watch that is super multifunctional, but economical, or a watch that is reduced in functions, but premium - higher end.

What is up with Sony allied Japanese execs always creating some convoluted excuse for their product's shortcomings?

What on Earth about GT makes it premium and higher end over Forza?

I was going to give him respect for admitting that Forza has better features. But then he tried to turn it around and make it seem like those features are what makes Forza a lower quality game. Seriously? Why not make a statement like, "We are pleased that Forza offers us such excellent competition. We respect their product and will be working extra hard to ensure that the next GT will offer the quality our players have come to expect from the series while meeting and surpassing the standards set by our competitors."

Franjo

10-11-2007, 08:30 AM

Also I must admit, whenever a new version of GT has ever come out, I've gone out and bought the console along with the game. When I was done with it, I'd sell it. I will do the same for the ps3 when I can pick it up for 250 bucks....so roughly in about 7 years.

Zander

10-11-2007, 08:31 AM

When was the last time a new GT was out?

When the HELL is the psp GT coming out other than never?

These are the questions that interest me.

Kweli

10-11-2007, 08:34 AM

bjornbarspingvinen

10-11-2007, 08:40 AM

I love Forza 2 , that´s good enough for me :)

Morratut

10-11-2007, 08:43 AM

360 release date US - November 22nd, 2005
Forza 2 release date US - May 29th, 2007

Approximately 17 months between the two

PS3 release date US - November 17th, 2006
Today - October 2007

Approximately 11 months between the two

So hey, if you want to complain about how long it is taking for GT on PS3, do not use Forza 2 as your comparison just yet. PGR, on the other hand, is 2nd tier and the PS3 has 2nd tier racers already.

I'm willing to wait. I'd much rather have a GT that makes great use of the PS3's hardware than a rushed for launch GT that doesn't.

Still can't change the fact the 360 has had 3 great driving games PGR3,Forza 2 and PGR 4. Meanwhile the PS3 has none. :) Well it has Motorstorm but that's not really a driving game like PGR, Forza and GT.

Mr.Green

10-11-2007, 08:44 AM

Uhm... OK. In terms of sales, the Harry Potter (franchise) absolutely destroys the Elder Scrolls (franchise.) What's your point?

His point is, as always, to post something somewhat negative about MS. :)

Kamalot

10-11-2007, 08:45 AM

See, for me Kamalot, the GT series was great. GT 1, 2 and 3 were the best driving games (for consoles) when they were first released, so yeah, they had the quality.

GT4 was not bad. It was great, just not as great as Forza once was. However, it'd be unfair to compare GT4 and GTHD to Forza 2 for now though, seeing as one is a last generation game, and the other, more of a tech demo. I do agree though that Forza 2 is currently the king of all console based simulation racing games.

I never said Gran Turismo wasn't quality. I said the number of units sold does not equal quality. I hear 50 Cent's game sold a boatload, and it was a trashy mess.

gzsfrk

10-11-2007, 08:54 AM

Is Forza seriously giving Gran Turismo a run for it's money ...?[/i]

It hasn't even been a race since the first Forza came out. Among a heavy majority of hardcore sim fans, Forza easily wins.

About all that GT can hope to do is put out a solid sim game with FANTASTIC visuals, as that is about the only thing lacking in Forza 2. (The visuals are good, but not OMG-jaw-on-the-floor good.)

That being said, where's Jack B? Can't have any kind of serious discussion on sim racing without his thoughts being in the mix. :)

oldjadedgamer

10-11-2007, 09:04 AM

Where is GT mobile?

scythe

10-11-2007, 09:05 AM

When was the last time a new GT was out?

When the HELL is the psp GT coming out other than never?

These are the questions that interest me.

Umm... I've been playing GT on the PS3 for the past few months... don't know about you guys ;)

Granted GTHD isn't a true sequel, nor is it even really next-gen, but it at least shows that Polyphony is trying. They're giving us something to whet our teeth, and GT5 Prologue is coming very soon. I echo the sentiments of an above poster in that I can live with these "demos" for now so long as when the game finally comes out, it's bad ass.

scythe

10-11-2007, 09:06 AM

To be fair, I don't have an answer for GT Mobile though.... not sure if that game will EVER come out.

Edmontongamer

10-11-2007, 09:19 AM

tenchiker

10-11-2007, 09:25 AM

I love both series. However the GT devs really need some better discipline when it comes to actually making the game. Like knowing which features to implement/cut and when, to get the game out on a decent timeline.

Kweli

10-11-2007, 09:30 AM

I don't know about forza. It has the braking lines and very few classic cars. And I bore of it quickly. Damage isn't something I like in driving games either. I guess I am just not that good at these games lol. I do love the gt series though. It has everything. Hell even a steamed powered car that you drag race in. It's quirky and has it's problems in terms of options but it also does has this polished feel that forza doesn't have. Hard to pinpoint but try both of them if you can and I am sure you will see the differance I am talking about. I also love jap cars and gt is really centered around them.

The breaking line can be disabled.... And that steam power car had like 1 HP... I cant believe some people even enjoyed that

The thing that pissed me off most about GT4 was some of the cars... SURE there was alot.. but who the hell wants to race in minivans and pickup trucks???

tenchiker

10-11-2007, 09:33 AM

360 release date US - November 22nd, 2005
Forza 2 release date US - May 29th, 2007

Approximately 17 months between the two

PS3 release date US - November 17th, 2006
Today - October 2007

Approximately 11 months between the two

So hey, if you want to complain about how long it is taking for GT on PS3, do not use Forza 2 as your comparison just yet. PGR, on the other hand, is 2nd tier and the PS3 has 2nd tier racers already.

I'm willing to wait. I'd much rather have a GT that makes great use of the PS3's hardware than a rushed for launch GT that doesn't.

Your comparison is kind of useless. When you consider that Forza 1 came out in may 2005. Did you expect them to make a game in 5 months? Gt4 came out in Feb 2005 so it's already been quite a bit longer since their last release. The Gt devs had a year and 5 months even before the PS3 released. Not to mention the fact that gt5 won't be out for a long time still.

Edmontongamer

10-11-2007, 09:39 AM

The breaking line can be disabled.... And that steam power car had like 1 HP... I cant believe some people even enjoyed that

The thing that pissed me off most about GT4 was some of the cars... SURE there was alot.. but who the hell wants to race in minivans and pickup trucks???

I do for change of pace. But this thread like so many on this site is more geared towards ragging on sony games/platforms than which racing game has higher quality etc. It should really be changed to hatesony.com or xboxfanboys.com and not evilavatar. The Evilavatar name suggest unbiased post by gamers of all platforms.

DiBiddilyBop

10-11-2007, 09:44 AM

To be fair, I don't have an answer for GT Mobile though.... not sure if that game will EVER come out.

GT Mobile is going to be launched in conjunction with the PSP version of Halo.

Kweli

10-11-2007, 09:47 AM

gzsfrk

10-11-2007, 09:51 AM

I do for change of pace. But this thread like so many on this site is more geared towards ragging on sony games/platforms than which racing game has higher quality etc. It should really be changed to hatesony.com or xboxfanboys.com and not evilavatar. The Evilavatar name suggest unbiased post by gamers of all platforms.

It's understandable to perceive EvAv as pro-MS/anti-Sony, particularly if your sentiments lie closer to the Playstation camp. However, how about you avoid resorting to ad-hominem attacks on the site in general and rather engage in the debate on the topic at hand, and providing counter-arguments which support your position?

For the record, GT isn't a bad game--far from it. And Forza 2 isn't for everybody; gamers who prefer arcade racers (RIIIIDGE RRAACCCEERRRRRRR!!!!) will have a hard time enjoying it. But comparing the bullet points for each game (gameplay, graphics, physics, online, other features) is a valid discussion for determining the better overall title.

And it just so happens that the lead designer of the GT series himself acknowledges that Forza has the superior feature set, although he believes GT has superior quality overall. I don't think people on here discussing his comments necessarily makes the site horribly biased.

I think a lot of gaming sites might come across as anti-Sony because Sony has had quite a bit more bad news than good news for the past couple years. If that's the case and a gaming site reports all the major stories in the industry, of COURSE the net effect is going to be the perception that the site is hating on Sony.

However, to determine if such is the case, why not create a list of all the stories you consider to be "major" or "significant" that EvAv hasn't covered on its front page. Then, we can determine if a significant number of stories that are negative towards MS/Nintendo and positive towards Sony have not been carried and compare that list to the number of positive stories towards MS/Nintendo and negative stories about Sony that have not been main-paged. We can then use that as a starting point to determine if the site is biased (at least with regard to the news posters).

Personally, I don't recall ANY major story not making main page here on EvAv, so I think you're not likely to find much in the way of news-posting bias. Now the community in general, that would likely be more difficult to measure....

Wraith

10-11-2007, 09:51 AM

tenchiker

10-11-2007, 09:53 AM

I do for change of pace. But this post like so many on this site is more geared towards sucking up to sony games/platforms than which racing game has higher quality etc. It should really be changed to sonycockftw.com or sonyfanboys.com and not edmontongamer. The edmontongamer name suggests unbiased posts by a gamer for all platforms.

Fixed that for ya.

grognard66

10-11-2007, 10:39 AM

Still can't change the fact the 360 has had 3 great driving games PGR3,Forza 2 and PGR 4. Meanwhile the PS3 has none. :) Well it has Motorstorm but that's not really a driving game like PGR, Forza and GT.

To be fair, F1 on the PS3 is actually a pretty good racer. It's one of only two games I enjoyed on the system so far. It would be so much better with rumble though.

Kweli

10-11-2007, 10:54 AM

F1 is actually REALLY good... but its not your typical racing game... Its all about patience and strategy (as well as driving a perfect line). I dont think this game is for everybody

In GT or Forza i find myself using my car's strengths to win the race (either superior grip, handling, or speed) but in F1 its all about waiting for the guy infront of you to make a little mistake...

Its hard racing behind somebody for 5 laps waiting for your chance to pass.. but very satisfying when you do...

Visually, F1 is great.. and the sense of speed is almost blinding

ARGH

10-11-2007, 11:25 AM

forza 2 is the clear winner it is obvious. gt5 will have better graphics but will fall short in all the other departments so it's easy to already chose the winner.

Serapth

10-11-2007, 11:35 AM

As a sign of how I have grown, I am not going to use this rant to talk about how Polyphony never shipped GT4:Mobile for the PSP.

See, I've grown!

Even if the fuckers made it look like a launch title, tricking me into buying a fucking PSP that sat collecting dust until a few months ago! Fuckers...

Oops.

51|RandoM

10-11-2007, 11:39 AM

Still can't change the fact the 360 has had 3 great driving games PGR3,Forza 2 and PGR 4. Meanwhile the PS3 has none. :) Well it has Motorstorm but that's not really a driving game like PGR, Forza and GT.

PS3 has DiRT. I guess you don't think DiRT is really a driving game? Oh wait, you think PGR is really a driving game so obviously DiRT more than qualifies.

gzsfrk

10-11-2007, 11:49 AM

PS3 has DiRT. I guess you don't think DiRT is really a driving game? Oh wait, you think PGR is really a driving game so obviously DiRT more than qualifies.

Perhaps he was referring to exclusives? But yeah, given that the PS3 has GTHD and the much lauded F1 for asphalt racing and both DiRT (sim) and Motorstorm (arcade) for off-road/rally racers, it's definitely not fair to imply that the PS3 has nothing.

Kweli

10-11-2007, 12:00 PM

forza 2 is the clear winner it is obvious. gt5 will have better graphics but will fall short in all the other departments so it's easy to already chose the winner.

I wouldnt count GT5 out just because it has less features..

I like the lively editor alot, but i dont feel like doing it to EVERY car (since it takes so long)

Forza got praised for its sound.. but it lacked the sound of AIR.. I know it sounds weird, but GT4 had the sound of air hitting your windsheild which added to your sense of speed...

I thought GT5 had better 'sense of speed'

Although i do agree. Forza 2 is the best simulator available at this moment

karak

10-11-2007, 12:13 PM

Its sad...

Gran Turismo is already on version 5 and damage & customization is "on the path ahead"

Forza was doing it on version 1... Dont they think after 5 visions that their path might be a little to long?

All that fancy amazing lighting would turn to utter chaos with damage. I am not sure about customization but damage is a bitch. So GT goes with uber realismn in its looks but utter crap on most everything else.

Kamalot

10-11-2007, 12:16 PM

Basically Yamauchi said it himself. You can buy other racing games that may have more features / functions / options, or you can buy Gran Turismo which has less.

It squarely falls into the 'fashion' realm at that point. Some people pay a hell of a lot of money for designer stuff: Sunglasses, clothing, handbags, shoes, etc. You get a fancy brand name and the knowledge you spent more money that you needed to.

phantomhitman

10-11-2007, 12:17 PM

PGR, on the other hand, is 2nd tier and the PS3 has 2nd tier racers already.
Ok, you have to explain this one to me. It has higher visual quality than any other racing game to date along with a single player game that rivals forza not to mention more tracks. This is without touching the multiplayer that stomps the shit out of any racing game created to date.
Yes, I am biased for PGR but I have played Forza just as much. The only difference in quality is Forza has better customizing and PGR has better visuals. Two different games without doubt but across the board PGR is a first tier title in quality as well as quantity sold.

karak

10-11-2007, 12:21 PM

It squarely falls into the 'fashion' realm at that point. Some people pay a hell of a lot of money for designer stuff: Sunglasses, clothing, handbags, shoes, etc. You get a fancy brand name and the knowledge you spent more money that you needed to.
You just described in this sentance everything about the console war as well.
Good post.

absolut taco

10-11-2007, 01:12 PM

I could have sworn the hardcore PC sim GTR was going to come to the 360 early this year. Anyone know anything about that?

Hawggy

10-11-2007, 02:54 PM

I could have sworn the hardcore PC sim GTR was going to come to the 360 early this year. Anyone know anything about that?

I think it died on the operating table (thank God). I love GTR. It's VERY purty and realistic. Same with GT Legends, and GTR2. It's just.............. Man - the same reason I dislike PGR (then again, I dunno why I even mention it, cause it ain't a sim)....... I can't customize my whip...... Or sell it online, or buy a custom paint job online..... Or race my friend's ghost......... Or... Well, you get the picture. Forza ftw. GT5 will only hope to keep up - but damn I want it to try, even if I have no PS3 - because competition rox - and there simply isn't any in the racing sim genre fukkin with Forza. That's actually bad. As consumers, that's not really what we want.

51|RandoM

10-11-2007, 03:50 PM

Ok, you have to explain this one to me. It has higher visual quality than any other racing game to date along with a single player game that rivals forza not to mention more tracks. This is without touching the multiplayer that stomps the shit out of any racing game created to date.
Yes, I am biased for PGR but I have played Forza just as much. The only difference in quality is Forza has better customizing and PGR has better visuals. Two different games without doubt but across the board PGR is a first tier title in quality as well as quantity sold.

PGR is an arcade racer with delusions of grandeur.

Does that clear it up for you?

If you don't think Forza has a better physics model you are fucking retarded(yeah, I said that). I know you play this shit for a living, but it doesn't make you right. You can even enjoy PGR more as a game than you do Forza, it doesn't make it a better racing SIMulation.

I have a microsoft wireless wheel, I have PGR3. The combination is shit, even compared to forza2 where they barely had time to mate the wheel to the game.

PGR4 might be better, but the addition of cycles to road races completely turns me off. Have you ever seen that in a real road race outside of some bizarre rallycross events? I don't think so.

Guy Mariano

10-11-2007, 04:01 PM

Although i do agree. Forza 2 is the best simulator available at this moment

I guess if you think you can crash your car going 100 mph + and drive away from it.

Vandabo

10-11-2007, 05:41 PM

Is there a TOCA race driver game coming out for the 360? Those games felt good driving wise to me, but the last one had that terrible penalty system for when you went off the track.

The thing I loved about GT games were the cars and the way you won them. Forza didn't have as great a car list, especially since it seems like half the cars were just endless race tuned versions of the other cars in the game. It seems like there are around 20 different race prepped Porsche GT3's in Forza 2, which just makes it more annoying to scroll through the car list. One or two would be plenty.

Inspector Fowler

10-11-2007, 06:35 PM

I love sim racing games, and I am open to anything and everything cool that comes down the path. PGR to me is a very, very pretty version of Mario Kart - I'll be damned if I don't have me some fun with Mario Kart, but if it doesn't make an effort to be realistic I just don't get "hooked".

But as hardware has advanced other games have added the features GT has always promised- damage, customization, AI that isn't (to quote a recent Halo review) "pants on head retarded", multiplayer online, etc. I just can't justify throwing money their way when other games already offer me the physics and racing I want!

As I've said in other, ancient threads, to me GT is Pokemon with cars- it's more about collecting the cars then being a gearhead. If they're not going to try to enhance the racing experience then I won't buy the game.

Lunar Blue

10-11-2007, 10:24 PM

Must... resist... bashing... Gran Turismo... Oh it has all been said already, alrighty then, I'm going to get me some ice cream.

Wait, did someone refer to DiRT as a sim?

ENGAGE NERD RAGE!!!!!111

Chainblast

10-11-2007, 11:27 PM

we had to wait absolutely ages for GT3 on PS2

GT3 released in July 2001. Not that long of a wait.

Jack B

10-12-2007, 12:35 AM

Interesting comments.

phantomhitman

10-12-2007, 08:26 AM

his post
You apparently do not remember what you said. You said PGR was a second tier game, You said nothing about a second tier physics system or second tier options. Get your shit straight and clarify what you mean. Of course Forza is more realistic, its a fucking sim. Also, how the hell do you know I like PGR more than Forza? Do I not play Forza at all, do I not compete in it as well?! Come on now, dont think your opinion and assumptions are the end all as well.

I guess if you think you can crash your car going 100 mph + and drive away from it.
You can? Are you turning options off or something? Simulation ftw.

I think it died on the operating table (thank God).
It changed developers and died because of it. Big changes with the game engine delayed the game permanently.