View Full Version : GTA: San Andreas Recalled
crecente
07-20-2005, 01:37 PM
Holy Momma. (http://www.shacknews.com/docs/press/072005_gta_sa.x)
It looks like the ESRB has decided to make an example of someone.
Editor: The author of Hot Coffee needs to be put into protective custody. This is one hell of a shitstorm it stirred up.
Although like the EA/VALVe hookup, apparent it's not as grim as it seems.
Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. announced today that the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) has changed the rating of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas on all platforms from "Mature 17+" (M) to "Adults Only 18+" (AO) because of the so-called "hot coffee mod," an unauthorized third party modification that alters the retail version of the game. Take-Two cooperated fully with the ESRB's investigation.
Rockstar Games has ceased manufacturing of the current version of the title and will begin working on a version of the game with enhanced security to prevent the "hot coffee" modifications. This version will retain the original ESRB M-rating and is expected to be available during the Company's fourth fiscal quarter. Rockstar Games will be providing AO labels for retailers who wish to continue to sell the current version of the title.
XxSATANxX
07-20-2005, 02:34 PM
Uhm yea ya mean like having the sales go thru the roof.
Don't get me wrong this was bad thing but as stunts go this one was freaking brilliant!
Holy. Shit.
Hillary has her way again. If shes not getting sex, NO ONE IS!
ReaverX
07-20-2005, 02:37 PM
I just came from GameStop and the manager was already telling his employees to take the game off the shelves. whoops....
SymetriX
07-20-2005, 02:41 PM
This is a great move by the industry, and I believe the next piece of filth they should target is all versions of The Sims. I have recently found a mod online which removes the blurring filter applied when characters are naked while showering or using the rest room. Only when filth like this is stopped will our children be safe!
Crispy951
07-20-2005, 02:44 PM
This is a great move by the industry, and I believe the next piece of filth they should target is all versions of The Sims. I have recently found a mod online which removes the blurring filter applied when characters are naked while showering or using the rest room. Only when filth like this is stopped will our children be safe!
i hope your're seriously being sarcastic, if you are its funny, if not than wow
Cha-Ka
07-20-2005, 02:46 PM
Right, like they'll ever effictively stop modders (or should bother trying). I realize this issue is about GTA's undisclosed content, but the other issues mentioned in the article are pretty Orwellian. ALL GAMES have the potential to be modded into sex simulations!
By the way,Here's another source for the ESRB recall (http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20050720005870&newsLang=en)
thecrazyd
07-20-2005, 02:46 PM
Well, thats worth than this shit. If GTA should be banned, then down with the ****ing Sims.
RichardTowler
07-20-2005, 02:46 PM
America in Sex Ban Shocker!
Hillary today announced that sex should be banned, as it is the route of all evil in the world, after an unsuccessful attempt to ban the porn industry, we have decided to ban sex all together, and we can all live in peace and happyness.
On a seperate note, Hilary announced that stealing cars, shooting people, and anything else you can do in GTA, will be made legal.
Mrbunchypants
07-20-2005, 02:47 PM
This is a great move by the industry, and I believe the next piece of filth they should target is all versions of The Sims. I have recently found a mod online which removes the blurring filter applied when characters are naked while showering or using the rest room. Only when filth like this is stopped will our children be safe!
If i'm not mistaken that only makes them naked. the programers for the sim did not make poo come out then blurr it.
This does mean companys have to be carefull what can be done to there games. i think your going to see longer devlorper times. and maybe checks at different stages like going to alpha you have to send your game to the esrb, and when going to beta and so on. means more time= more cost= prices go up. :(
president_fred
07-20-2005, 03:00 PM
I mean as long as this gets lifted or the games restickered as Rockstar offered, I don't think ESRB allowed it initially as it does undermine thier position gamedevs can basically say "we can lie to ESRB and if we get busted just resticker", then I am fine with it. I think it is kind of hysterical all things considered but Rockstar was dumb to lie in the first place, then again the definitions in the ESRB guidelines can be argued ad nauseum, but that isn't the point the ESRB exist and Rockstar was stupid to lie to them. I am sure GTA:SA will be back on shelves as soon as things have been ironed out, because it does seem like an attempt by Rockstar to just get free publicity which backfired slightly ::understatement::.
XxSATANxX
07-20-2005, 03:04 PM
Loving the whole Take 2 stock crash. BUY BUY BUY
"Were lowering our forecasts"
Gimme a break. Let's check back after next qtr and just see what the impact of all this has been.....SURPRISE our sales went up.....who knew???
Sorry as I can be folks but this is like putting that stupid adult language sticker on CD's it just drives sales.
The Gamestop by me was blowing out GTA over the past few days.
D_Reaper
07-20-2005, 03:06 PM
Well, thats worth than this shit. If GTA should be banned, then down with the ****ing Sims.
The game isn't being banned, it's only being recalled. The article states that retailers can sell an AO version, or recall peoples copies of it for a version that doesn't have the code for the Hot Coffee "minigame" in it.
Hillary just pwned those nubs.
Cha-Ka
07-20-2005, 03:13 PM
I wonder if WalMarts and other "family" oriented retailers will sell the stickered AO versions or if they'll stop selling GTA:SA until it returns to being M-rated.
thecrazyd
07-20-2005, 03:15 PM
Well, thats worth than this shit. If GTA should be banned, then down with the ****ing Sims.
The hell? Since when does EA have a swear filter. LAME.
thecrazyd
07-20-2005, 03:16 PM
I wonder if WalMarts and other "family" oriented retailers will sell the stickered AO versions or if they'll stop selling GTA:SA until it returns to being M-rated.
Walmart wouldn't sell M-rated games until GTA hit it big. Watch how fast they sell AO games if GTA stays that way.
Mister Pie
07-20-2005, 03:23 PM
Wow, damn. Our society is waaaaay too sexually repressed. I'd even be a bit more supportive if they were going after violence. But sex? C'mon.
Crabby
07-20-2005, 03:48 PM
Modding isn't the problem and the article writer here, along with some of you, are dimwits for considering it. The direct problem was the existence of the code on the discs. The ESRB is not taking action against Rockstar for random modding, they are taking action against Rockstar for undisclosed code on a disc. No person in his or her sain mind would actually hold a developer accountable for 100% modded content.
"Enhanced Security" = "Remove the porn from the game that our dumbasses left in there" I suppose.
will begin working on a version of the game with enhanced security to prevent the "hot coffee" modifications.
This is what worries me, as it could start a trend of publishers doing their best to kill off the mod scene that currently exists in gaming, and stifling any future 3rd party production.
I'm a bit hazy on this, but IIRC the DMCA has provisions against "reverse engineering" software.
Can this be applied against modders?
Nerv, like too many, you don't get it. The hot coffee mod wasn't even a mod, it probably only changed a single line of code in a file that Rockstar wrote. All the content of the "mod" was done by Rockstar and integrated into the game by Rockstar. There is no comparison to real mods here.
Liquidize105
07-20-2005, 03:55 PM
Crabby:
If by article writer, you're referring to the editor, which is me, then I think you're misunderstanding what I was trying to say.
This is quite possibly the biggest news event centered around the preception of modding vs. hacking/cracking. The mod is not responsible, but the implication is the same. As far as San Andreas is concerned, modding is finished.
I'm a bit hazy on this, but IIRC the DMCA has provisions against "reverse engineering" software.
Can this be applied against modders?
Ugh, don't even mention it. I don't know if it can but $10 says EA will be the first company to find out.
No, the implication isn't the same, if this was modded material the ESRB wouldn't of even considered changing the rating. And, quite frankly, even then the only reason they did change it was to look more legitimate in the eyes of the goverment. There are no parallels to be drawn here.
And how do we know San Andreas modding is finished? I don't even think it's possible for them to keep that from happening, the could maybe limit it but not kill it. They are just going to remove the sex scene from the game. If nothing is there then there is nothing to show.
To see the mod on the PC version requires a lot more effort than any kid would have to put forth to see sex on the internet.
eaweeks21
07-20-2005, 04:05 PM
I posted in another thread but think it's dead...
An AO rating for GTA even with the mod, makes no sense. The "M" rating is for "Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language". The "AO" rating is for "Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity". "Strong Sexual Content" and "Nudity" is allowed in "M" rated games, just look at Leisure Suit Larry. FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD, GTA DOES NOT EVEN HAVE NUDITY. Sexual acts are often depicted on network late night tv. This is a far cry from porn as an "AO" rating would suggest and many lawmakers would like. Why the double standard. Ratings for movies are not even federally enforcable, only on a state level. Give me a break politicians... (Quotes from ESRB.com)
I don't think there's any copulation anyway... looks like dry-humping to me
I just don't understand why Rockstar thought it was a good idea at all to even leave something like that in the game. Considering the microscope the game is already under in the media, why give them anything at all to use against you. It's just not a wise move. And then to not even come out and say 'oops, our fault' just makes them look bad. If they wanted to make a statement about how silly the villification of games is these days, they should have straight out said 'yeah, it's there. now stop trying to be the parents of everyone in the world' and fought back. Instead they cowered to their profit margin. There is noone left anymore willing to stand up and fight for something they believe in.
Rockstar is a factory of employees, it probably fell in the cracks.
I remember there was some game(I know someone else remembers this), that had some file with a bunch of porno text when you opened them. I think it was pulling data that had been deleted when the code was compiling or something. I don't know, makes know sense to me but I am no developer. I think it was a flight sim game or something.
In any case they said, oops my bad, and probably patched it. Can't remember.
EAweeks, more ratings hilarity from Penny Arcade (http://penny-arcade.com)
The ESRB is suggesting that they may change the rating of the game to Adults Only, a category that by their own definition should see a great deal more use in a retail environment. This is great. Look at the descriptions for these.
MATURETitles rated M (Mature) have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language.
Or, as the rest of our culture calls it, "Rated R." Check out AO.
ADULTS ONLY Titles rated AO (Adults Only) have content that should only be played by persons 18 years and older. Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity.
This can't seriously be their distinction. The scenes are longer? I played Resident Evil 4 nearly 26 hours, all told. I'm going to say that maybe nineteen hours of it was spent looking down the iron sights at humanoids. The reality is that once a person is 18, a violent videogame is fairly minor in the spectrum of "adult" content available to that person. Looking over my collection, if the duration of the violence is the distinguishing factor, I'm trying to figure out what purpose Mature serves other than to remove the stigma from otherwise "adult" content and grease the wheels at retail.
I don't like being strident or suggesting that the ESRB is fundamentally unserious about rating content in an effective way that our society recognizes - but they'd better have some fucking answers on-hand to deal with this shit. There's no question that the industry is beset by career opportunists and lazy people willing to outsource their responsibilities as parents, but the pronounced winking and looking the other way on the industry side of the equation won't fly with this level of scrutiny en route.
Rommel
07-20-2005, 04:17 PM
Calm down calm down. It is not so bad. All this means is that the current versions of San Andreas are going to fly off of shelves in the next few weeks, and all future prints will be minus code we didn't know was there a few weeks ago. Big deal. I am surprised that the ESRB doesn't know how to sweep things under the carpet though.
This is quite possibly the biggest news event centered around the preception of modding vs. hacking/cracking. The mod is not responsible, but the implication is the same. As far as San Andreas is concerned, modding is finished.
Well, the bad thing is that Rockstar called this a mod, which it is clearly not, and now the action by the ESRB will look like they are forcing a recall because of a mod, which is completely incorrect. However, since Rockstar called it a mod and claimed the content was hacked in, and is seemingly sticking to that story, then the “mod” is to blame. I mean, they don't have to change the security at all, security is not the issue and they know it, so by sticking to their story they're suggesting that they're recalling to increase the security to stop hackers when in fact they’re just recalling to remove the stuff they should have removed in the first place (this kind of buck passing is just lame, and I’m sure the technically minded folk here see right though it, but many won’t). I think Rockstar’s behavior in response to this has been consistently pathetic, and will do damage to the rest of the industry. I really wish they didn’t make such good work, because I for one hate that they’re at the forefront of the industry.
Big deal. I am surprised that the ESRB doesn't know how to sweep things under the carpet though.
Some people know when to sweep things under the carpet, and some people know when to seize an oppurtunity to make buddy buddy with a bunch of politicians.
I am saddened I had to go and buy the Xbox version of this before the whole "hot coffee" business started. A) I didn't get to see any digital hoo-hoos, B) my controls suck, C) no digital hoo-hoos and D) in a few month's time I could sell that thing on ebay coupled with a disc containing a certain "cup o joe" and make at least 20 bucks. Yeah.....20 bucks.
eaweeks21
07-20-2005, 04:27 PM
the main problem is a stigma that video games are only for kids. Parents look at video games without thinking about content because they say it's just a video game how bad could it be. Well it's no worse than the average R rated movie, but the fact that there might be some content not suitable for a 10 year old doesn't cross the parents mind until she sees what little Johny just unlocked in GTA which he should not have had to begin with. It's a cultural problem because of the relative newness of video games as opposed to movies.
Yep, only time is going to change that though.
Nerv, like too many, you don't get it. The hot coffee mod wasn't even a mod, it probably only changed a single line of code in a file that Rockstar wrote. All the content of the "mod" was done by Rockstar and integrated into the game by Rockstar. There is no comparison to real mods here.
What has that got to do with what I was talking about?
I fully understand that all Hot Coffee does is unlock something Rockstar made, but had removed from gameplay.
However,
will begin working on a version of the game with enhanced security to prevent the "hot coffee" modification.
Sure as hell sounds to me like :
"We'll be doing our damnednest to screw things up for anyone wanting to fuck with our code, modders, hackers or perverts alike, because we don't like fines or lawsuits"
What I am worried about, and I thought I made this clear, is the big publishers going down a path where they attempt to stop all modding, irregardless of content, intent or how it works.
Wasn't there a lawsuit over a DOA Beach Volleyball nudity patch, that claimed the patch sullied the name and marketing of the game?
The publishers have plenty of reasons to lock down their games, they just need the impetus, which they may well have found.
This is what worries me, as it could start a trend of publishers doing their best to kill off the mod scene that currently exists in gaming, and stifling any future 3rd party production.
What we have here has nothing to do with the mod scene. I don't see your fears coming true.
eaweeks21
07-20-2005, 04:32 PM
but DOA was for a console that is not intended to be modded, one of the main differences between pc and console. I've never heard of a lawsuit for a pc modded game. Could be wrong though
Their security mumbo jumbo is just so people still think the game was compromised. It's PR. I doubt they are doing anything beyond taking out the offending bits and making sure others don't exist.
Some people know when to sweep things under the carpet, and some people know when to seize an oppurtunity to make buddy buddy with a bunch of politicians.
I still think it's pretty unfair to break it down this way. This is the ESRB's job, and if they can't do anything about infractions like this then they're not a regulatory body, and are ceremonial at best. Although how much each involved party is blowing things out of proportion is highly subjective, one thing is fairly clear, Rockstar is the one in this situation that was not doing their job. If I was at the ESRB I'd be pretty upset, and this seems like an appropriate decision to me (if not even too lax). IOW, regardless of political pressure or whatever else we can imagine is involved, isn't this still the right thing to do?
eaweeks21
07-20-2005, 04:37 PM
I agree Taco. I'll bet if this was disclosed to ESRB previous to release, it still would have gotten an "M" rating, it angers me that Rockstar will not stand up to politicians, but ho well
Yeah, but according to their own ratings system it should be rated M still, but if they make it AO they score some points with the opposition. If theres no penetration I say live it M, all I saw was dry humping ;).
As far as the ESRB being upset, no doubt, Rockstar put them in a shitty situation.
ElectricMonk
07-20-2005, 04:40 PM
If i'm not mistaken that only makes them naked. the programers for the sim did not make poo come out then blurr it.
man... just imagine if they _did_ make the poo come out. so once your sims were done there was a log in the toilet before they flushed. it'd be pretty gross but i mean everybody has looked at their own poo in the toilet thousands of times through the years.
somebody should make a mod and see how many people actually use it.
Heretic Machine
07-20-2005, 04:41 PM
i hope your're seriously being sarcastic, if you are its funny, if not than wow
I love being seriously sarcastic.
What we have here has nothing to do with the mod scene. I don't see your fears coming true.
While you are technically 100% correct, the point is that if Rockstar convinces people to think it's a mod, then that can do damage (after all, perception influences behavior, not reality). Although I agree with your positive prognosis about the outcome, it’s certainly possible that it could hurt.
No game is "intedended to be modded", just some developers support it more directly.
Up untill now, publishers have either (directly or indirectly) supported, or at least ignored the mod scene, it have been a staple of PC gaming for as long as I can remember.
What I am concerned about, is that it makes sense, from a business point of view, to not allow modders do their thing.
It would mean you can control the content of the game (and control your liability, consider an ISP being sued for not blocking illegal content), and control how people play it, it would limit a games replayablity, meaning gamers will go out and buy expansion packs and sequels in droves, and they could also hinder anyone wanting to mess with this new practise of streaming ingame advertisements, like in Splinter Cell 3 and SWAT 4.
Even if developers went out of their way to stifle modding someone would always find a way around it. And there is no way to block the distribution of files. Just torrent them.
I think the popularity of consoles and the selling of miniscule downloadable updates(soon to be real popular) does more damage to harming mod support than this issue. Still real minor though.
eaweeks21
07-20-2005, 04:50 PM
limitting mods is a possibility but so many pc games support mods indirectly or directly by actually handing over developing tools that I don't think it will ever be a problem at least for the pc. PC games rely on the mod community in large part for there sales. A big reason people by pc games is for mods, publishers see this and in this respect would not make financial sense for mods to be illegal. If they did, a smart company would just just release a game where the point is to make a mod and distribute. Mod's are here to stay. Have no fears.
Evil Avatar
07-20-2005, 04:54 PM
The hell? Since when does EA have a swear filter. LAME.
It is in your user options.
SymetriX
07-20-2005, 04:56 PM
i hope your're seriously being sarcastic, if you are its funny, if not than wow
Yes it was sarcasm, but with a point.
How different are the two really? Somebody said the "nude" mod for The Sims only makes them naked, but that is because the game itself already has a sex mini-game!
In fact the new game even sets "whoopee" as one of your goals! We're talking T for teen, folks. GTA comes right out and tells you it's a mature game.
So, the moral of the story is that you can set goals for having sex with multiple men & women, and see it played out in a somewhat cartoonish fashion, and we're still in the T-for-Teen zone.
See too graphic of a depiction or control the pace yourself, and we're Adults-Only!
And this isn't even considering that it's content that has to be modded to be seen.
I'm not crazy or high enough to suggest it would be possible to kill the mod scene, after all, the MPAA et al have yet to put a dent in piracy, but I wouldn't be surprised to see an active attempt to try it.
eaweeks21
07-20-2005, 05:12 PM
Agreed Nerv. Hopefully they don't however, more money will be spent on anti-modding, than any money (if any) they currently loose because of mods.
Babbster
07-20-2005, 05:15 PM
The bottom line is that the ESRB is doing what they were created to do: Attempting to protect the gaming industry from attempts at outside regulation.
On the other hand, all Rockstar has done is to prove themselves to be cowards (for not including the sequence in the normal game flow) and liars (first for leaving the thing on the disc and not telling ESRB, and second for trying to make it seem that the content was added by a third party) who seem intent on screwing (my apologies) over the entire industry. I love their games, but Take Two/Rockstar just keep losing more and more points in my eyes.
As for Hillary and the rest of the screamers: We all know why they jumped on this, so why get upset about it? They want publicity (Hillary in particular is probably going to take a run at the White House next election) and this gives it to them. It's like getting mad at barking dogs - you should be mad at the people who trained (elected) them.
eaweeks21
07-20-2005, 05:19 PM
The thing that worries me politically is that it is not just Hillary. If it was I would just laugh at her, but we're hearing the screams about ESRB needing to enforce "AO" rating by other dems and repubs as well. It's as if everyone in politics is against video games. I mean, who is the last well known politician who said "well that's no worse than an R rated movie"? Show me one and I'll support them to presidency.
51|RandoM
07-20-2005, 05:27 PM
Seems like the right thing to do to me.
The WRONG thing to do is a) have that code sitting in there in the first place, and then b) LIE LIE LIE about it when people find it.
How dumb do they think people are? Sure, your average legislator probably isn't a closet code geek, but he or she can probably understand the concept of textures and models and the fact that the game shipped with those textures and models.
I hope they get slapped again because of the outright lies in their press releases.
eaweeks21
07-20-2005, 05:30 PM
If they were going to lie about it and force into an "AO" rating, they could at least have included genitalia.
bapenguin
07-20-2005, 05:30 PM
wow...shocking. wow...retarded. what have they done by doing this? Created a new market on EBay called "pre-recall GTA" soon you'll see items like this "GTA: SA Hot Coffee NO CENSOR edition - 149.99" and it'll sell for that. I mean really...how many copies have sold of this game so far? Is pulling it now anything more than a purely political move to appease the mob?
eaweeks21
07-20-2005, 05:40 PM
I agree Rockstar screwed up, but is what they were hiding really that bad? I don't get what the big deal is. The hidden code is not worthy of being called pornographic which many politicians are screaming. The only issue is that Rockstar lied. Why they tried to cover this up makes no sense. It's not as bad as many things currently out with an "M" rating.
It's to get the M rating on there and nothing else I think. I think even the mighty GTA series would suffer a sales loss with an AO rating.
wow...shocking. wow...retarded. what have they done by doing this?
Ok, so what would your less retarded and shocking response have been?
Murmillo
07-20-2005, 05:57 PM
So when are The Sims going to get an AO rating?
You can't compare the GTA scenes with the Sims scenes. I didn't even want to launch into that bogus comparison.
51|RandoM
07-20-2005, 06:12 PM
an easy comparison of the two:
If somebody walked by me while I was 'playing' the sex scene in GTA, I'd feel like a perv.
If somebody walked by me while my sims were getting it on, I'd call them over to look at it and we'd get a chuckle out of it.
Crabby
07-20-2005, 06:13 PM
Crabby:
If by article writer, you're referring to the editor, which is me, then I think you're misunderstanding what I was trying to say.
This is quite possibly the biggest news event centered around the preception of modding vs. hacking/cracking. The mod is not responsible, but the implication is the same. As far as San Andreas is concerned, modding is finished.
No I am actually referring to whomever wrote the news page you linked.
...But for some reason the link now points toward another news snippet different from the first page that I saw it point to earlier today.
splatstick
07-20-2005, 06:43 PM
Rockstar could definately capitalize even more on this by releasing an official "AO" title that takes full advantage of the rating to do whatever the hell it wants. Especially with this publicity, it would sell like crazy.
EDIT (for clarity): Added content is what I am talking about, motherfucker.
Thenetcase
07-20-2005, 07:07 PM
It's about damn time. :)
Heretic Machine
07-20-2005, 07:15 PM
Rockstar could definately capitalize even more on this by releasing an official "AO" title that takes full advantage of the rating to do whatever the hell it wants. Especially with this publicity, it would sell like crazy.
I agree... Hell, they should look into hooking up with Valve for a Steam distribution of such a title.
LilAbner
07-20-2005, 07:19 PM
America in Sex Ban Shocker!
Hillary today announced that sex should be banned, as it is the route of all evil in the world, after an unsuccessful attempt to ban the porn industry, we have decided to ban sex all together, and we can all live in peace and happyness.
On a seperate note, Hilary announced that stealing cars, shooting people, and anything else you can do in GTA, will be made legal.
ROTFLMAO. Your sarcasm is honed perfectly.
Why is our country so uptight with sex, but perfectly ok with graphic violence. We're freaking war mongers, I tell you!!!! GET ME MAH GUN!!!! I WANNA SHOOT A NAKED PERSON!!!!
BTW, the game is no longer available at GameStop.com. I guess these retailers are more concerned with perception, which is odd when you think about it because Wal-Mart and other guys still sell DOOM 3, which is loaded with satanic symbols and references. I guess that's ok, just don't sell a game with people dry humping each other.
jacktion
07-20-2005, 07:41 PM
This isn't one programmers secret addition. Rockstar knew this stuff was in there all along. They were deciding whether or not to include it to make the game even more adult than before. They decided not to include but it was too much trouble to remove it from the disc so they just locked it up and hoped no one would find it. But secretly they knew it was just a matter of time before someone did. Rockstar is a bunch of punks who like causing trouble, and now they have caused it. Case closed. Rockstar's stock price falls.
eaweeks21
07-20-2005, 08:04 PM
Rockstar could definately capitalize even more on this by releasing an official "AO" title that takes full advantage of the rating to do whatever the hell it wants. Especially with this publicity, it would sell like crazy.
Agreed, maybe Hillary can be an unlockable character...
Hijinx
07-20-2005, 08:16 PM
I posted in another thread but think it's dead...
An AO rating for GTA even with the mod, makes no sense. The "M" rating is for "Titles in this category may contain intense violence, blood and gore, sexual content, and/or strong language". The "AO" rating is for "Titles in this category may include prolonged scenes of intense violence and/or graphic sexual content and nudity". "Strong Sexual Content" and "Nudity" is allowed in "M" rated games, just look at Leisure Suit Larry. FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD, GTA DOES NOT EVEN HAVE NUDITY. Sexual acts are often depicted on network late night tv. This is a far cry from porn as an "AO" rating would suggest and many lawmakers would like. Why the double standard. Ratings for movies are not even federally enforcable, only on a state level. Give me a break politicians... (Quotes from ESRB.com)
I don't think there's any copulation anyway... looks like dry-humping to me
You have to pay and become a member to see the Close-Ups.
GrinR
07-20-2005, 09:47 PM
Finally, the terrorists have won.
Paltry
07-20-2005, 10:08 PM
what a bunch of pussies
92miata
07-20-2005, 10:13 PM
i will sleep with hilary if bill dosen't agree. this is bs man. the game is all about shooting cops, killing and raping, but now sex and nudity causes problems. get your crap straight people.
we need another terrorist attack now. give these bastards something to do.
see ya. sorry to offend you evil, free speech and all.....:)
Well, the bad thing is that Rockstar called this a mod, which it is clearly not.Hot Coffee is GTA code that has been MODified, therefore it is a mod.
The publishers have plenty of reasons to lock down their games, they just need the impetus, which they may well have found.We are talking about TakeTwo and Rockstar here, these are the bad-boys of the industry, as long as it does not cost them significant amounts of money, I'm pretty sure they'll do whatever the hell they want to.
On another note, is what they did illegal? I know they may have misrepresented the game, but is breaking the ESRB regulations a crime? Is it a federal requirement that you submit your game to them?
steve
07-21-2005, 02:03 AM
Has Hillary ever seen the Sims2? I had my male character seduce his male neighbour and they both had sex in the bathtub I placed in his front porch. Little sim children were passing by the road while they were in there. Holy moses! I demand it rated AO!
kwillhan
07-21-2005, 02:21 AM
GTA is an 'AO' game. It should be, and it is. Anyone of you that complain... You're pschotic.
You are an adult. Why do you even care? Are you fighting for the rights of children to play this game? Do you think less than adults should be allowed to?
Just shut up. GTA is like porn, for people that need more than sex and want death involved too. It's a sick game for people to kill and murder innocents, and god dammit I play it occasionally.
Quit pretending like it's Mario. It's a sick game, people.
kel
LilEvilFish
07-21-2005, 02:25 AM
I can see the production meeting at the first stages of development of SA...
Head Producer: Ok we've got the same stuff we need new stuff! Lets have proper planes, base jumping, some gambling and some crazy other features.. oh and lets get Burt the work experience guy to code in a hardcore sex simulation
Programmer A: Er.. Bob I think that might not swing with the sensors
Head Producer: Course it will, everyone loves sex simulations
Programmer B: *glances at A* whatever you say Bob
Rogueski
07-21-2005, 02:33 AM
GTA:SA is not only a mature game (an adult only with the mod) but its a poor game. Yes you heard me. On the PS2 its one of the worst games I have played this year. It has bad texturing, bad car physics and controls. Its 60% loading screens, even tho the city is seemless, the story ain't.
The original GTA was fun, 2 was not bad, and GTA 3 was where I had had enough. Vice City was only good cos of the music and SA is just plain bad now. Rockstar are just bleeding this franchise dry and if someone "accidently" left this code in, then what were they thinking adding it in the first place? Are they 12?
I'm not happy to see it recalled. It'll just add to the already massive sales. I'm just upset that games industry (especially in EU/USA) is full of death, killing and no imagination. Damn I wish I was Japanesse.
Heretic Machine
07-21-2005, 03:53 AM
You are an adult. Why do you even care? Are you fighting for the rights of children to play this game? Do you think less than adults should be allowed to?
Since it does -no- harm to a child who plays it, I don't see a problem with it.
Heretic Machine
07-21-2005, 03:55 AM
The original GTA was fun, 2 was not bad, and GTA 3 was where I had had enough. Vice City was only good cos of the music and SA is just plain bad now. Rockstar are just bleeding this franchise dry and if someone "accidently" left this code in, then what were they thinking adding it in the first place? Are they 12?
...I hope you realize that GTA3/VC/SA are nothing like GTA 1/2. How did you "have enough" once you got to GTA3? It was nothing like you'd ever played before.
bapenguin
07-21-2005, 04:25 AM
Ok, so what would your less retarded and shocking response have been?
Sticking to your guns. Now they just look soft for giving in.
Again, this is a case of the few ruining it for the many. Plenty of "children" can play this game and understand it's just that....a game. It's nothing they can't see in prime time TV more or less.
Goronmon
07-21-2005, 05:50 AM
Was Rockstar stupid for including this stuff onto the game disk at all? Yup
Is Rockstar stupid for trying to play it off as not their fault? Yup
Is Hilary Clinton just trying to get some face-time? Yup
Is there any difference between Mature and AO ratings for in-game content? Nope
Really, all it comes down to is this. AO is a rating given to punish a game. It has nothing to do with content. If someone protested hard enough against violence and gaming, almost any game thats rated Mature right now could be slapped with an AO rating.
The thing that bugs me the most is that there are people that actually believe that the game is worse for children if the extra scenes are unlocked. It just defies logic. I would be more willing to believe that GTA got an AO rating for violence than sex. But hey, who needs logic when you have politics to worry about?
Rockstar would be stupid not to re-release the game. They CAN'T have an AO rating and expect the sales to keep flowing. If they took a stand it would be a stand against the ESRB, which is the last bit of ammo we need to give politicians.
eaweeks21
07-21-2005, 09:25 AM
AO is a rating given to punish a game.
I agree Goronmon. That is why I have a problem with this whole situation. It is solely about politicians and other organizations seeking out their own agenda. Do I think little kids should play this? NO... they shouldn't be allowed to with an "M" rating. Giving this game an "AO" rating is a step back for video games. It's a game. Stop giving games like this to impressionable kids there would be no problems. This does not require federal laws to be made; they don't exist for movies, shouldn't exist for games. Politicians like looking like humanity's savior. They are hippocrates-simple as that.
eaweeks21
07-21-2005, 10:45 AM
One more thing- the hot-coffee "mod" should not give this an AO rating. It is not explicit sex; it is implied by the motions, sounds, and goal. If people want to argue that this game should be an AO game, go for it, but only on the merits of the content of the game as a whole. This one mini game does not tilt this game from M to AO. If anything could, it would be the overall themes of the game in it's entirety which will remain intact after it's overhaul to an M rating again. How can implicit sex be bad, but the rest of the game be ok?
Hot Coffee is GTA code that has been MODified, therefore it is a mod.
Hehe, although the mod term is pretty poorly defined, I'm quite sure that one week ago if I'd suggested unlocked content was a mod that 90% of the people saying it is now would have called me an idiot. The activation requires a modification, but the content being displayed is absolutely not a mod, which is what was suggested by Rockstar. Rockstar's PR guys aren't going to change my definition of words, they're not that rich :).
Sticking to your guns. Now they just look soft for giving in.
If you're talking about the ESRB, then I believe that's what they're doing, to stick to their previous rating that was based on incomplete information about the game would be absurd, and they'd have been rightfully slapped around for it. As far as looking soft, are you saying they're caving to the politics and that you'd much rather them cave to Rockstar, who has deceived them and made them look foolish?
Crabby
07-21-2005, 12:37 PM
I can tell you exactly how the AO rating and the M rating are different. And afterward you will understand why you mostly only see AO level games in Japan...
AO is a rating given to punish a game.So do you think that the same parents who don't read the M15+ rating labels won't buy the AO one for their 12 year old? If they didn't take any notice of the rating in the first place, why would they care after the re-rating?
kwillhan
07-22-2005, 01:52 AM
Since it does -no- harm to a child who plays it, I don't see a problem with it.
Prostitution and the killing of prostitutes for money paid, psychopathic murder by car, joining the main characters of the story on a drive by, several drive by's, killing a police man at the end of the game as a climax, having the police presented as one of the main enemies, and ... and. Well fuck, why don't you just take up from there and start listing off crazy shit that GTA allows a person to do. A -child- to do, as you implied in your one sentence.
sure, GTA doesn't reach out and slap kids, but it's screwed. My parents didn't want me to play Doom. That's one thing. They didn't want me to kill brown imp's that were standing in a hallway attacking me.
Parents today don't want there children to play GTA, not because they don't want them to kill imps in a hallway, but because they don't want them to hire whores and kill cops in a city that was made to as closely remsemble a real city as possible.
Strange people saying GTA doesn't matter is the whole reason people like Hillary Clinton have ammuntion. If Rockstar would have come out and said, point blank, this shit is for adults, don't ever let your kids play it, this shit is AO, then they wouldn't have this problem right now, and they would prolly have the same sells.
kel
Crabby
07-22-2005, 10:39 AM
Prostitution and the killing of prostitutes for money paid, psychopathic murder by car, joining the main characters of the story on a drive by, several drive by's, killing a police man at the end of the game as a climax, having the police presented as one of the main enemies, and ... and. Well fuck, why don't you just take up from there and start listing off crazy shit that GTA allows a person to do. A -child- to do, as you implied in your one sentence.
sure, GTA doesn't reach out and slap kids, but it's screwed. My parents didn't want me to play Doom. That's one thing. They didn't want me to kill brown imp's that were standing in a hallway attacking me.
Parents today don't want there children to play GTA, not because they don't want them to kill imps in a hallway, but because they don't want them to hire whores and kill cops in a city that was made to as closely remsemble a real city as possible.
Strange people saying GTA doesn't matter is the whole reason people like Hillary Clinton have ammuntion. If Rockstar would have come out and said, point blank, this shit is for adults, don't ever let your kids play it, this shit is AO, then they wouldn't have this problem right now, and they would prolly have the same sells.
kel
Mmmm, the implied intentions of Rockstar in this post smack of a similar smell as the tobacco industry to me. I think...I think I agree...
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