The Library: HALO 3's Official Story Thread [SPOILERS]

[Zeal]

http://e7.img.v4.skyrock.com/e71/automn/pics/43864465_small.jpg

Greetings, Reclaimers. I am the Monitor of this thread, 343 Guilty Spark.

Please feel free to discuss the intricacies of Halo 3's plot at this location. Spoilers of any kind are allowed here, so those who have yet to complete Halo 3 are urged to turn back now. I will enjoy cataloging every post of this thread's discussion.

[Zeal]

Thread now open.

[mig]

Well then, thanks for the thread unlock. Could have cut and pasted my text from the previous thread :p


Questions that still bug me after finishing Halo 3 Legendary:


[Some Spoiler space for those with poor thread reading comprehension]

















Is that a Forerunner world shown at the end? The Data Terminals hint at a split in the Forerunners regarding the use of the Halo rings and the Ark. Some hesitated and decided they wanted no part in using the rings.

Why does Master Chief solve all his problems with blowing up reactors?

How does Guilty Spark recognize Spartan armor and call MC , Reclaimer?

Where does Gravemind come from, why does it have such an obsession with death?

Cortana has a life span of 7 years if I remember correctly, are we led to believe she's all hunkydory after ingesting a Forerunner database and then melding with the Gravemind?

[Shadowstorm]

To me, the game did answer some burning questions I had, but I think Halo 3 made some new questions and left them unanswered ...

I am curious about the Forerunners. I imagine them being physically depicted as the Terrans in Freespace...

[Goronmon]

Where does Gravemind come from, why does it have such an obsession with death?Gravemind is the resultant intelligence of a flood infestation.

[mig]

Gravemind is the resultant intelligence of a flood infestation.

I know WHERE he comes from, I'm looking for the WHY.

[theevilnarwhale]

My Friends and I came to the conclusion that the large planet looking thing was high charity. This how ever could be totally wrong.
Also I thought that the gravemind came to be after large flood infestations, it just comes together. I guess kinda like the worm colonies that form the hunters?

[Heretic Machine]

I know WHERE he comes from, I'm looking for the WHY.

Probably because it exists by animating the corpses of the dead, and the fact that it's creators (I believe the Forerunners made the Flood anyway) spent a lot of time and effort on killing it.

[Sophism]

My Friends and I came to the conclusion that the large planet looking thing was high charity. This how ever could be totally wrong.
Also I thought that the gravemind came to be after large flood infestations, it just comes together. I guess kinda like the worm colonies that form the hunters?You're right on the Gravemind thing. It's supposedly the non-combat worthy bodies and organic matter absorbed by the Flood.

High Charity was the setting of the Cortana level. You blew it up.

[Zanzibar]

Yeah, I wasn't happy with the (lack of) explanation about Cortana's 'rampancy' stream-of-consciousness visions that Chief experienced, followed by her being completely coherent after the Chief rescues her. How did she send those visions to Chief when he was on Earth? How is the Gravemind able to take over Chief's brain as well?

Plus, I mean, at the end, after the credits...they obviously love each other, and he simply jumps into a cryofreeze chamber within, like, 2 minutes after he wakes up. She's there, alone, left to contemplate the universe for the umpteen thousandth time for another few years.

My only complaints about a stellar game, by the way.

[Krispy]

Is that a Forerunner world shown at the end? The Data Terminals hint at a split in the Forerunners regarding the use of the Halo rings and the Ark. Some hesitated and decided they wanted no part in using the rings.

Your guess is as good as mine although I saw no hints to suggest it was Forerunner.

Why does Master Chief solve all his problems with blowing up reactors?

That was a joke in the game too. The Chief just excels at blowing shit up.

How does Guilty Spark recognize Spartan armor and call MC , Reclaimer?

Guilty Spark recognizes Chief from the second Halo, I imagine that Spark is advanced enough to retain this sort of stuff. I don't recall if Spark called Chief "Reclaimer" in Halo 2 but if I had to wager a guess it would be because he has the deactivation key in his suite. Same reason why he could deactivate the rings from going off on the Ark, right? I can't remember if Cortana deactivated the rings or if Chief was able to do it himself.

Where does Gravemind come from, why does it have such an obsession with death?

I haven't read all of the terminals yet but I hear buzz that the Gravemind was a creation of the Forerunners which would make him akin to the Overmind in Starcraft. Otherwise it would be like the Tyranid broods in WarHammer 40k, a hive mind that slowly grows in strength from who knows where.

Cortana has a life span of 7 years if I remember correctly, are we led to believe she's all hunkydory after ingesting a Forerunner database and then melding with the Gravemind?

Excellent question. Furthermore, what the hell do they mean by melding her with the Gravemind? One is digital and the other is a biological hive mind. Are they suggesting the Gravemind can assimilate machines as well as biological creatures

Plus, I mean, at the end, after the credits...they obviously love each other, and he simply jumps into a cryofreeze chamber within, like, 2 minutes after he wakes up. She's there, alone, left to contemplate the universe for the umpteen thousandth time for another few years.

Their relationship certainly seems one sided. Chief hardly gives her feelings any recognition at all. Maybe he is just too much of a soldier ;).

[Food Nipple]

My one and only story complaint is that we never see Gravemind in the entire campaign except for a few tentacles, what's the deal with that? I wanted to see that bastard in some HD glory.

[digitalErich]

The Gravemind comes into being when the Flood reaches a certain, critical mass. They don't explain any more than that. And yes, the Gravemind can talk to, and absorb AIs.

According to the terminals, the Forerunners actually built a combat AI called Mendicant Bias that was going to fight/destract the Gravemind but, for whatever reason, it either was turned or went rogue. The daemon that gives the red errors on the terminals is either Bias or a remnant of him as per the last terminal.

As far as the Forerunners being split, as far as I could tell they were reluctant to use the Halos and had one, last ditch effort to wipe the Gravemind out before it reached the "Line" (I assume this is the point of no return or something). It sounds like Bias was an integral part of that plan and when he failed, they were forced to fire the Halos.

Edit: If anyone finds caps of the terminals, especially the first, secret screens, please post a link.

[Wyrm]

I didn't really see the whole Cortana and Gravemind story play out in the game. Though you do go and rescue her, they never explain why you keep seeing burst transmissions from her, and like it was stated above, why she's simply good to go when you find her when she was very clearly being absorbed by the gravemind.

Though the gravemind has often come under criticism, I think he's an interesting character, and I was hoping for more of an ultimate show down with him. A level where you have to run through and around his entire body to kill him would have been AWESOME, but it probably wasn't necessary.

It sort of seems like they sold the Gravemind short after introducing him in such a cool way in the last game. You hear from him at the end, which is neat, but I think they could have done so much more with those interactions.

Also, I never saw a single terminal while I was playing, at least as far as I know. I'm not sure what they look like, and didn't explore the levels very extensively, so I guess I'm not very perceptive. Do they contain information vital to the story?

I think the biggest question is, with the game ending the way it does, will we see another game featuring the Master Cheif in the future?

[digitalErich]

Cortana has a life span of 7 years if I remember correctly, are we led to believe she's all hunkydory after ingesting a Forerunner database and then melding with the Gravemind?
Smart AIs do have a limited life span...they think themselves into insanity or something. However, I am guessing that, if needed, they can use Cortana's interaction with the Forerunner's DB or the Gravemind to somehow grant her a longer lifespan or other traits above other AIs.

[digitalErich]

What's this planet at the end of the Legendary ending (haven't seen it yet)? Any indication it's the Shield World inside of Onyx (probably not possible since it exists in Splispace).

Wholly hell I love geeking out like this.

[EL CABONG]

Why didn't Cortana(or anybody) close the door at the back of the ship? That bugged the hell out of me when I was watching it.

I didn't like the story that much. The Flood are bad then they help you and then they are bad again.


I know the Elite's changed sides (in H2) but I miss fighting them. They should of had some rogue ones or something that you got to fight during some level.

I did like that they left it open for a Halo 4. They could unfreeze him if they needed
too.

[Zeal]

Where to begin? Halo 3's story, upon further examination, is absurdly deep, opening just as many questions as answers. What I do know is that the Terminals are the key to a deeper understanding of Halo's pre-history, as we'll call it from here on out.

Although I plan on going back and studying all of this in detail, this is what I've been able to gather:

1. One terminal explains that what the Forerunner call "Flood" are actually transgalactic beings in nature, meaning they're not even from the 'known' universe. Parasitic in nature, but godlike in intelligence, (one point indicates that the Forerunner security systems are being overtaken by the Gravemind) the Flood goes is comparable to the Borg from Star Trek. The main goal of the Flood, which is a hivemind, is to assimilate and spread its consciousness as far as possible. Considering the Flood assimilates and learns the knowledge of whatever species it consumes, its main objective appears to be geared towards gathering as much knowledge as possible.

At one point, the current Gravemind (equivalent to the Flood's temporary "control center," similar to that of the Borg Queen) comments that it has "learned Cortana's secret". This is mentioned during the escape of the level Cortana, and never eluded to again. I am still curious as to just what it was implying.

2. The Forerunner were divided. The very fact that the Halo installation were built signifies that the Forerunner were both puzzled and fascinated with the Flood. The exact reason the Flood were contained and studied remains unknown, but the fact that the Forerunner were willing to wipe out the entire galaxy to contain an outbreak...well, that probably meant the fruits of their discoveries outweighed its failure, amazingly.

One terminal indicated that the Forerunner made a "breakthrough" in artificial intelligence, with the end result being the AI "Mendicant Bias". It seems at one point that this AI went rampant, taking over entire fleets and installations. It is later revealed that the Gravemind has assumed control of these ships, and is spreading itself outward in an arching pattern, taking over thousands of worlds before spearheading an attack against the Forerunner themselves. It is at this point that the Forerunner agree that the last remaining action is to fire the rings.

As I've said, there's a SHIT TON of information to pour over. I would appreciate anyone's feedback and own research.

Here is a Terminal I've found compiled. It seems what actually happened is that Mendicant Bias was either taken over by Gravemidn or went rampant on his own. Here it is:

// FRAGMENT 7/7 [RECORDED VERBATIM
AND INTERPERETED POST CATACLYSM]

D: Proud? When I have failed you
utterly, how can I feel anything
but sorrow?

Bias has come undone. He crossed
the line this morning - brought the
abomination with him - and destroyed
your waiting rescue party.

It's over. We're activating the
[destructive arrayed matrix],
our shameful last resort.

I can picture you in your garden,
surveying all you have created -
surveying all you have preserved.
And I curse the circumstance that
keeps my finger on the trigger.

D: Of all the fates to befall us,
this is the cruelest of all.
My inaction and hesitation and
foolishness kept me here, on the
wrong side of the line. And [300
years [?]] of our society's failure
and miscalculation makes me your
executioner.

It's too much to bear

// ERROR - NO CARRIER OR RECEIPT
AVAILABLE {DEAD END TRANSMISSION}
// INFORMATION DESTROYED IN TRANSIT

D: Mendicant Bias is trying to
prevent us from firing the Array.
He speeds back to the Ark, but he
won't succeed. Offensive Bias will
stop him, and I will burn this
stinking menace in your name.

And then?

I will begin our Great Journey
without you, carrying this bitter
record. Those who come after will
know what we bought with this [false
transcendence] - what you bought,
and the price you paid.

// FRAGMENT ENDS
// ALL RECORDS CEASE

archv.> 28355.67204.85720:[retr]
archv.> 28355.67204.85720:[proc]
archv.> 28355.67204.85720:[proc]
archv.> 28355.67204.85720:[catERR]
> CONN.
> .
> .
> NO. THERE IS MORE
> BUT YOU ARE NOT WORTHY
>.
>.
> NOT YET
>.
>.
X.XX.713> ghost.713/non-auth/...
X.XX.713> refl

[Zeal]

What I theorize from this is that the Forerunner were attempting to study the Flood in a way to transcend death. To live beyond the grave.

One point actually references the "Great Journey" as death itself, with the Flood being a shameful attempt at "False Transcendence".

[digitalErich]

I did like how the Forerunner's text was written in such way that you could see how the Covenant could interpret it as religion.

Also, I think the Forerunners studied the Flood because that is simply what they did...they were scientists. A lot of the terminals are between two people, one of which is indexing and cataloging a world (worlds?) and all its life before it's destroyed in what I assume was an attempt to detain or fight the Flood.

I'm still holding out hope that the rumor from last year about a Bungie project called Forerunner turns out to be a game that really gives us some background. Maybe even a game set during the Forerunner wars.

[digitalErich]

As to the last terminal...does this mean some part of Mendicant Bias still existed in the Arc's systems?

[Evil Avatar]

Zeal. Edit out that Countdown clock or whatever it is you have in the first post.

[Zeal]

It was just a black background with an image.

[Zeal]

I wouldn't doubt if the next game takes place hundreds of thousands of years before the events of Halo, dealing with the Forerunners and the even more elusive "Precursors," as seen here:

http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/9412/668cl7.jpg

[digitalErich]

Where is that page from Zeal? And about the next game, are you guessing or are you guessing *wink* *wink*?

[Shadowstorm]

That photo is a little frustrating to read. I have attempted to type it:

Tier O: Transsentient
As the [Forerunners] has no examples of civilization with technological accomplishment greater than themselves -- with the exception of the Precursors -- this is a theoretical ceiling. They can travel intergalactically and accelerate evolution of intelligent life. These may be creatures of legend.

Tier 1: World Builders
[Forerunner] ability to manipulate gravitational forces, creat AI with full sentience, fabricate super-dense materials, and perform ultra-accurate [slipspace] navigation is unequaled by any extant civilization.

Tier 2: Interstellar
The [Covenant's] accurate [slipspace] navigation, near-instantaneous communication, and man-portable application of energy manipulation owe ///// ng to [Forerunner] technology.

[note: the two primary extant interstellar civilizations were space-faring prior to discovering [Forerunner] artifacts -- or each other -- but they have not successfully reverse-engineered those artifacts.]

Tier 3: Space-Faring
Humans have efficient [slipspace] navigation, mass drivers, asynchronous linera-induction weapons, holocrystal storage, and semi-sentient AI, but their creation requires [blood sacrifice], memory transfer, and flash cloning. They have had little or no outside influence -- until recent events. Since [Covenant] concact, they have been on the verge of huge artificial advancement.

"////////" means I could not read that section because the light was in the way.

[Durandal-217]

Naw player, let me help you out here.

Digital version of bestiarum:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/104/bestiarumta1bl2.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4479/bestiarumta2ri4.jpg

If you need anything else, let me know.

[Shadowstorm]

Naw player, let me help you out here.

Digital version of bestiarum:

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/104/bestiarumta1bl2.jpg

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/4479/bestiarumta2ri4.jpg

If you need anything else, let me know.

Dude. What a waste of text I just typed out for everyone else's convenience... ugh.

[jadkins555]

I have some pretty basic questions having just finished Halo 3.

1) So the prophets/covenant really did believe they would get eternal life through firing the Halos, and only the elites knew the truth? I guess I'm getting a little confused because it seemed like there were moments in Halo 2 where the prophets knew what they were saying was false.

2) Was the ship that made its way to earth with the flood the same ship that went to the ark?

3) What happened to the flood on earth? I'm sure it was shown I just can't remember what happened between being on that ship and going into the portal.

I think I played through the game too quickly to really digest what was going on. Also, the ending was absolutely perfect. I really can't think of anything better they could have done in regards to Master Chief and Cortana.

[JRR006]

Dude. What a waste of text I just typed out for everyone else's convenience... ugh.

I appreciate your efforts! I'm too lazy to click on links.

[Zeal]

The Great Journey that the Prophets referred to was not really the same thing as what the Forerunners referenced. The exact meaning is still unknown, although the leading theory is simply death, or to transcend the physical body.

The Flood ship that crashed on Earth was eventually glassed (aka burned) by the Elite Shipmaster's fleet. He made a comment that a single Flood spore could destroy an entire planet, and that he would have glassed Earth if it were not for the Arbiter's intervention.

[Krispy]

At one point, the current Gravemind (equivalent to the Flood's temporary "control center," similar to that of the Borg Queen) comments that it has "learned Cortana's secret". This is mentioned during the escape of the level Cortana, and never eluded to again. I am still curious as to just what it was implying.

I figured that the secret was that she had the activation key for the Halo still. What he learned is he better take some action to stop her or he is screwed.

What happened to the flood on earth? I'm sure it was shown I just can't remember what happened between being on that ship and going into the portal.

They were "glassed" by the Elites. Which basically means they took their big purple ships and shot huge lasers onto the ground scorching the Earth for miles and miles.

[digitalErich]

The Great Journey that the Prophets referred to was not really the same thing as what the Forerunners referenced. The exact meaning is still unknown, although the leading theory is simply death, or to transcend the physical body.
From the terminals, I got that The Great Journey was just the Forerunners referencing death using flowery language and the Covenant read into it literally, eventually using it as the ultimate goal of their religion.

[digitalErich]

Zeal, what book is that page from?

[Zeal]

From the terminals, I got that The Great Journey was just the Forerunners referencing death using flowery language and the Covenant read into it literally, eventually using it as the ultimate goal of their religion.

As the transcendence of death is the ultimate goal of every religion, I agree.

[digitalErich]

Well, I meant they were referencing something more specific...to them it had structure and form, even if they didn't know what that was.

[Zeal]

The Prophet race was simply manipulating the Covenant for their own purposes. The Prophet of Truth said he wanted to become a god, right before he was killed.

It's just another example of the Forerunner's knowledge being misinterpreted.

[spacemanspiff757]

There was something else that struck me after reading some posts on here. A few people made a reference to Guilty Spark calling MC "Reclaimer". Now, call me crazy, but I think in one of the cinematics or something I heard Guilty Spark refer to MC as one of the 'Forerunners'. Anyone else catch this or am I crazy?

Something else grabbed me just now too. Thinking about Gravemind, I thought of that giant blob of Flood you see towards the end of Halo 2 with Keyes face (anyone else remember this?). Eventhough MC ripped his neural implants out, I'm wondering if there might have been any way that the Flood could have preserved any part of him and perhaps is Gravemind.

Could just be the beer talking.

[chirz]

That page is from the little "art" book that comes with the Limited Edition Halo 3 tin box. It's actually an interesting read.

[Adam Blue]

There was something else that struck me after reading some posts on here. A few people made a reference to Guilty Spark calling MC "Reclaimer". Now, call me crazy, but I think in one of the cinematics or something I heard Guilty Spark refer to MC as one of the 'Forerunners'. Anyone else catch this or am I crazy?

Yeah, and I think it's because the humans are Forerunners. I'm guessing a previous activation of the rings wiped out all but a few the forerunners left behind to become Halo-Universe Humans.

EDIT: Nevermind that...found this via GameFaqs:

1) Humans are not related to Forerunners. Forerunners found humans about a 100,000 years ago and built the Dyson Portal on Earth so they have a way to defend themselves against the Flood.

[Heretic Machine]

Yeah, and I think it's because the humans are Forerunners. I'm guessing a previous activation of the rings wiped out all but a few the forerunners left behind to become Halo-Universe Humans.

EDIT: Nevermind that...found this via GameFaqs:

Well, GameFAQs is wrong. The Prophet of Truth specifically says that humans are Forerunners. He says they're weak with compassion compared to the Forerunners who built the Halos, they "knew what had to be done."

Also, the whole point of the Chief being a Reclaimer is that Guilty Spark thinks he is a Forerunner that has come to reclaim the various Forerunner technologies. That is why only a human can activate the rings.

[Zeal]

It explains that the human race are the "inheritors" of the Forerunner legacy. The Forerunners speak of a race throughout the terminals that has "great potential" and is "very special". They left us everything, with our task being to 'reclaim' their knowledge.

It's also why a gate to the Ark installation was built on earth.

[Adam Blue]

Well, GameFAQs is wrong. The Prophet of Truth specifically says that humans are Forerunners. He says they're weak with compassion compared to the Forerunners who built the Halos, they "knew what had to be done."

Also, the whole point of the Chief being a Reclaimer is that Guilty Spark thinks he is a Forerunner that has come to reclaim the various Forerunner technologies. That is why only a human can activate the rings.

I've been reading around a lot more, and it definitely seems like the humans aren't forerunners. It sounds like the forerunners liked the humans and helped them out, building that portal for them to escape/fight the flood. Let me try to find that source again.

Duh, the Ark:

This theory however has been disproven due to the opening of Episode 5 of Iris stating that the Forerunners discovered humanity and Earth and built the Ark to protect humanity from the activation of the Halos and protect them from the Flood.

Here's the site: Link (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Forerunner#Forerunners_and_Humans.3F)

And this (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Halo_3:_The_Cradle_of_Life) is awesome.

[MrBibbz]

But 343 states to the Chief that humans are Forerunner. How can that be over looked in the cinematic just before they get set to destroy the Halo replacement and the Ark?


Also someone mentioned that the world in the extra footage at the end of the legendary setting could be the shield world, that is plausable ... I mean ..we don't know if the Chief and Cortana made it of the slipstream portal when it collapsed.

[Disgustipated]

God damn, what a fantastic story and what a great ending to the trilogy.

And Bungie really pulled a one-two punch with the ending, with amusing repercussions for years to come.

First, the jerks that skip the credits will be yelling "Master Chief is dead!" all over the Internet for years to come, and some won't believe people that the Master Chief is really just asleep.

However, Bungie really DID pull the wool over my eyes. I was in disbelief during the whole ending, and then Hellbug skipped the credits... but I remembered someone said to keep watching the credits, so we did the last level again (which was fucking awesome) to see the credits.

It was well worth it, although very weaksauce that Bungie has so cruelly teased us with the hope of Halo 4.

My co-op buddies and I had some interesting theories:

1. Master Chief will be awakened because all of the future Spartan soldiers will go rogue, etc.

2. Master Chief will be reawakened due to another Covenant War/Civil War

3. Master Chief will be reawakened because of the Flood surviving somehow (probably surviving the glassing on Earth... it's so possible).

4. Master Chief will not be reawakened...


Until Halo 5, due to Halo 4 being a Forerunner prequel game. ;)

[Adam Blue]

But 343 states to the Chief that humans are Forerunner. How can that be over looked in the cinematic just before they get set to destroy the Halo replacement and the Ark?

No, he says, "You are a Forerunner!" Exclaiming to him that he has joined the Forerunners. Read up what I linked. It's all there.

[Adam Blue]

My co-op buddies and I had some interesting theories:

1. Master Chief will be awakened because all of the future Spartan soldiers will go rogue, etc.

2. Master Chief will be reawakened due to another Covenant War/Civil War

3. Master Chief will be reawakened because of the Flood surviving somehow (probably surviving the glassing on Earth... it's so possible).

4. Master Chief will not be reawakened...


Until Halo 5, due to Halo 4 being a Forerunner prequel game. ;)

Master Chief will crash land on Marathon.

[The Iron Weasel]

Well when Halo 4 is announced for the next Xbox we'll know what happened to the Master Chief. :)

[Adam Blue]

Also someone mentioned that the world in the extra footage at the end of the legendary setting could be the shield world, that is plausable ... I mean ..we don't know if the Chief and Cortana made it of the slipstream portal when it collapsed.

You mean Onyx? That was destroyed. All that remains are trillions of Sentinels flying around a Dyson Sphere.

[MrBibbz]

You mean Onyx? That was destroyed. All that remains are trillions of Sentinels flying around a Dyson Sphere.


Negative .. Onyx the planet was destroyed .. the shield planet is not.


And if 343 says 'You are a Forerunner' it can be taken both ways,also if you go back to the first halo where 343 greets the chief as a Reclaimer. And Reclaimers are already supposed to be Forerunner.. so the way I digest that information is that humans are a fraction of what the Forerunners were; and the Chief was supposed to be there acting as a Reclaimer would, firing the rings to destroy the flood, but with out a care for anything else in the rings destructive waves.

[Disgustipated]

In Halo 3: The Cradle of Life, a human elder of his tribe gets up every morning and watches the "gods" (presumed Forerunners) make their "machines". The "machine" is the same Artifact that was in the Halo 3 Announcement Trailer.

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Halo_3:_The_Cradle_of_Life

So the humans are not Forerunners.

[Adam Blue]

Negative .. Onyx the planet was destroyed .. the shield planet is not.


And if 343 says 'You are a Forerunner' it can be taken both ways,also if you go back to the first halo where 343 greets the chief as a Reclaimer. And Reclaimers are already supposed to be Forerunner.. so the way I digest that information is that humans are a fraction of what the Forerunners were; and the Chief was supposed to be there acting as a Reclaimer would, firing the rings to destroy the flood, but with out a care for anything else in the rings destructive waves.

The Reclaimers are who the Forerunners entrust with activating the rings.

The shield planet is a Dyson Sphere surrounded by trillions of Sentinels...the outer layer was supposed to look like a barren planet to trick the flood, but that was torn apart.

[Zeal]

I believe Master Chief will be awakened in the age of Marathon, eventually becoming the Marathon Soldier.

[MrBibbz]

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Halo_3:_The_Cradle_of_Life

So the humans are not Forerunners.

I find that hard to believe, as 343 would have seen through the Chief and then it flaws the story line as to why humans can activate and deactivate the firing control for the HALO rings.

Humans have to be a descendant of the Forerunners. I believe Truth says something along the lines of 'your forerunner ancestors left you behind because you were weak' when he was addressing the Sarge and before they make him activate the halos.

[MrBibbz]

The Reclaimers are who the Forerunners entrust with activating the rings.

The shield planet is a Dyson Sphere surrounded by trillions of Sentinels...the outer layer was supposed to look like a barren planet to trick the flood, but that was torn apart.

The shield planet is the planet hidden in the slipstream, where the dr and the remaining Spartan II and IIIs are. Onyx as just the gate way to that planet.

[Zeal]

Like I said, the Forerunner refer to humans as a "unique" and "special race" throughout the terminals. The most accurate description would be that we're they're adopted children.

Or inheritors...or reclaimers.

[MrBibbz]

Like I said, the Forerunner refer to humans as a "unique" and "special race" throughout the terminals. The most accurate description would be that we're they're adopted children.

Or inheritors...or reclaimers.


I didn't see that post Zeal.. but this is what I believe and until Bungie states otherwise that is what I will stand by.

And I know it's in written in The Flood and I believe in HALO CE that 343 advises John that his suit ranks a class 2 and the flood should be handled with a suit rating of class 12.. as far as we know .. there are no augmented humans before the Spartan IIs. And if the humans are adopted and not some forgotten descendants of the Forerunners, wouldn't they have access to all the Forerunner technology before hand? Not after the fact?

[Zeal]

Yeah, one terminal has the Forerunners talking to one another about containing the outbreak and they mention that a class 14 is advised. They refer to their armor as "Combat Skin."

Now if we could only get one of those suits in a downloadable armor update.....

[Adam Blue]

I find that hard to believe, as 343 would have seen through the Chief and then it flaws the story line as to why humans can activate and deactivate the firing control for the HALO rings.

Humans have to be a descendant of the Forerunners. I believe Truth says something along the lines of 'your forerunner ancestors left you behind because you were weak' when he was addressing the Sarge and before they make him activate the halos.

The forerunners built the ark on Earth for the Humans, so when time came, the Humans could activate the rings to destroy the flood. Seriously, read up one everything it's there. Chapter 5 of iris even states that humans aren't forerunners.


The shield planet is the planet hidden in the slipstream, where the dr and the remaining Spartan II and IIIs are. Onyx as just the gate way to that planet.

That's pretty much what I said. Here's another way to put it:

Lieutenant Commander Kurt Ambrose remained behind to ensure that the Covenant did not plunder Onyx's secrets by detonating two cut down FENRIS nuclear warheads. Kurt gave his life to prevent the Covenant from reopening the Slipspace rift. The FENRIS' detonations obliterated much of the planet's organic material, revealing an underlying structure composed entirely of trillions of Sentinels, all focused on protecting the Slipspace rift and the Forerunner Dyson Sphere within it.

[MrBibbz]

If you have the Iris stuff saved somewhere or links I will gladly read it. But isn't Iris supposed to be some rogue AI? And can't that be false info?

[digitalErich]

I'm guessing that the Forerunners and humans share a common link/ancestor, somewhere along the line. From Iris:

The inhabitants; these unique denizens, must be researched.
They may hold answers to our own mysteries.

That second sentence seems to imply that, to me at least. Also, I'm not sure how much I trust that Wiki...they are taking some quotes from the game and interpreting them way differently than I do. Iris aside, my money is still on Forerunners and humans being genetically linked.

Edit: and dammit, why didn't that Book come with the Legendary Edition? I'd rather have the lore book than the storyboard book I got.

[MrBibbz]

where can one find said lore book, or does one not exist?

[Talon-]

I believe Master Chief will be awakened in the age of Marathon, eventually becoming the Marathon Soldier.

From the Bungie Marathon FAQ
Q. Is Marathon the prequel to Halo?
A. No, Marathon is a separate story, with wholly different characters, story and gameplay.
Q. Are the Pfhor related to The Covenant?
A. No, although they do share some traits –such as enslaving client races, they are entirely separate and each exists in a different "universe."

Bungie apparently doesn't host any Marathon material other than pictures anymore, but plenty of other Marathon sites and many forum users reference these lines.


From the Bungie Halo FAQ (http://halo.bungie.org/faq/contents.html)
What does Marathon have to do with Halo? From the beginning of Halo's development and marketing, it appeared that Halo was related to Bungie's previous game Marathon. The Cortana Letters were sent to the Story Page, and early Halo material had some Marathon-like aspects. However, with the release of the final game and its final plot, it has become clear that the Marathon connections are, at best, extremely tenuous. All Marathon-related items in Halo are found in easter eggs, in-jokes, sly references, and other places that do not support a real storyline connection.


Apparently, although I haven't been able to find a quite from Jason Jones about this, he has said that there is no relation between the Halo and Marathon Universe.

Also, people on the Bungie forums have categorized timeline discrepancies such as how the Marathon is incapable of faster than light travel although being built in the 2400s whereas in the Halo timeline, the humans had developed faster than light travel in 2170. The Marathon also had some sort of teleportation device in the ship, which is unknown to humanity in the 2500s in Halo's timeline.

We know how Alex S said that the protagonists of Halo and Marathon are one and the same, but did he leave before or after the creative process for Halo was done?

Personally, I don't think they are one and the same. If I remember correctly, wasn't the protagonists of Marathon just a security officer? Seems like a humble station for a super soldier like the MC. Also, Bungie has said that the accompanying material (ILoveBees and the Cortana Letters especially) are not necessarily canon.

EDIT: Now the Halo wikia says that Bungie has accepted ILB as canon...but considering ILB is not part of the Bungie Halo Bible, is it? I dunno.

[Mot Wakorb]

With the Cortana 7-year rampancy cycle - is that from Marathon, or is that documented in the Halo mythos as well? I know Durandal went rampant, as did Tycho in Marathon, but does that jump here, too?

[Talon-]

With the Cortana 7-year rampancy cycle - is that from Marathon, or is that documented in the Halo mythos as well? I know Durandal went rampant, as did Tycho in Marathon, but does that jump here, too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rampancy

[Disgustipated]

With the Cortana 7-year rampancy cycle - is that from Marathon, or is that documented in the Halo mythos as well? I know Durandal went rampant, as did Tycho in Marathon, but does that jump here, too?

Documented in the Halo books.

[Krispy]

I must admit I am a bit disappointed that Cortana seems to be perfectly stable. One would think, especially given the erratic messages, that Cortana had begun the stages of rampancy. Certainly garnering human-like feelings is a side effect of rampancy although in the Halo universe it is unclear whether that could simply be a side effect of being a "Smart AI" or not.

[mastergeo7]

Excelent Thread. Now i Consider Myself an stupid person... I didn't see all that info.

[Zeal]

has anyone found a compiled list of all the terminals yet? something tells me i am going to be studying this story for a long, long time.

[Heretic Machine]

With the Cortana 7-year rampancy cycle - is that from Marathon, or is that documented in the Halo mythos as well? I know Durandal went rampant, as did Tycho in Marathon, but does that jump here, too?

Cortana isn't the same kind of A.I. as the A.I.'s in Marathon. Cortana was made using a flash cloned brain of a human, something about running signals through it to map it's pathways (or some other pseudo-science), producing something very similar to the mind of Dr. Halsey. This type of A.I. is known to "Think itself to death" after seven years. The A.I.'s in Marathon don't have that problem, they seem to be able to live for quite a while; but they're programmed, not mapped to a human brain. Now, I'm not positive that the smart A.I.'s (like Cortana) actually die after seven years, or if they go rampant. Is there any implicit statement that they die, and aren't simply terminated as they enter rampancy?

[spacemanspiff757]

has anyone found a compiled list of all the terminals yet? something tells me i am going to be studying this story for a long, long time.

I found this (http://www.halo3planet.com/2007/09/25/halo-3-terminal-locations/) as far as the locations go, but I haven't been able to dig anything up as far as what they all read

[B_Money]

I have a question about the "Beleive" ads for Halo. When did the battle described by the soldiers happen in the story, and how did they recreate the diorama if all the human/Covenant battles on earth happened in Africa, and Africa was glassed by the Elites?
Also, getting back to the theme, notice how the forerunners created the ark so they could survive the flood. The covenant weren't the only race who interpreted the forerunner actions as religion.

[Nuggsy]

On my first time through the game I didn't pay as much attention to the story as I should have.

I think that my excitement over playing through the game made me miss a lot of the major plot points.

Personally I was a little disappointed with the ending. From the tone of the "Believe" ads, I fully expected MC to go out in a blaze of glory, and kept waiting to return to Earth for a final conflict with the remnants of the Brute forces.

Regardless, the discussion here is really great, and it looks like I'm going to have to re-read the novels and do some more digging - particularly to read those terminals.

As far as whether or not MC is a forerunner, I could be mistaken, but I thought that Guilty Spark said "You are forerunner." Not "You are a forerunner." It made me think that MC was a product, or at least reminiscent, of forerunner technology.

Also, I think that Cortana did go a bit nuts. First, I think that her feelings toward MC are indicative of a flawed A.I., despite the fact that she is an imprint of Dr. Halsey.

As far as Marathon goes, I always just kind of considered that they two were related only in that they existed in some sort of parallel universe. Either that or Bungie simply decided that, since the Marathon games were done, that they would just reuse certain elements.

Did anyone else get a "Death of Optimus Prime" feeling from the end? I feel that the next game will feature - in some aspect - the search for MC and Cortana in order to deafeat the flood once and for all or something like that.

Good info guys, keep up the detective work.

edit: On the back of the box it says "The Stunning Conclusion to the Halo Trilogy". Does that feel like a cheap bit of copy just to sell the game at this point? Or does it mean to suggest that the future games won't have anything to do with the Halos themselves?

[Talon-]

I have a question about the "Beleive" ads for Halo. When did the battle described by the soldiers happen in the story, and how did they recreate the diorama if all the human/Covenant battles on earth happened in Africa, and Africa was glassed by the Elites?
Also, getting back to the theme, notice how the forerunners created the ark so they could survive the flood. The covenant weren't the only race who interpreted the forerunner actions as religion.

The diorama isn't really considered canon by Bungie. It was made for the sake of the ads, not further the story.

Other than a fun play on words, I don't think there's much there with your point. So you're thinking that the forerunner left a flood story to a plurality of the ancient cultures of Earth?

Originally Posted by Nuggsy
edit: On the back of the box it says "The Stunning Conclusion to the Halo Trilogy". Does that feel like a cheap bit of copy just to sell the game at this point? Or does it mean to suggest that the future games won't have anything to do with the Halos themselves?

Bungie said that Halo 3 was the close of the trilogy. This arch of the story is done. They may revisit the universe though.

[Adam Blue]

Other than a fun play on words, I don't think there's much there with your point. So you're thinking that the forerunner left a flood story to a plurality of the ancient cultures of Earth?

I think so. I don't think Bungie will admit it. Args have connected unproven human history with the forerunners. The problem is, with those that get deep into the story they will get offended if Bungie is trying to say there is no Christianity, just people misinterpreting evidence left behind by the forerunners. Even in fiction, it will create a controversy. Most of the time they seem to leave things open anyway.

[Talon-]

I think so. I don't think Bungie will admit it. Args have connected unproven human history with the forerunners. The problem is, with those that get deep into the story they will get offended if Bungie is trying to say there is no Christianity, just people misinterpreting evidence left behind by the forerunners. Even in fiction, it will create a controversy. Most of the time they seem to leave things open anyway.

Well, I'm guessing you understand that the flood mythos is shared by just about every ancient culture, which is a fascinating phenomenon. Granted, it doesn't really even matter considering it's just a game, but it's a fun thought.

[TrackZero]

I did like that they left it open for a Halo 4. They could unfreeze him if they needed
too.

There will never be a Halo 4. "Halo" is over. Now the Master Chief may return, but it'll be called another game series.

[heyitsjohn]

Compiled List of Terminal Text (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Terminals)
Here it is, oh masterful Chief. It's actually kind of compelling when you read them consecutively. I actually like these little communiques more than the entire flood storyline of all the games.

[The Iron Weasel]

There will never be a Halo 4. "Halo" is over. Now the Master Chief may return, but it'll be called another game series.

I have to disagree, I think it'll probably be called Halo otherwise people won't make the connection between Halo and the new game. I so pose thats not entirely true, if Bungie makes a new game Halo related Microsoft will market the shit out of it to ENSURE the public knows that the Master Chief is back.

[digitalErich]

I don't know...Halo, Bungie, and MC are big enough that any game relating to any one of them will get tons of press (and thus sales), not matter what name they slap on the box. I still want a Forerunner game...I crave lore.

[B_Money]

We all know it's coming.
Halo 4: Start another fight.

[Heretic Machine]

Compiled List of Terminal Text (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Terminals)
Here it is, oh masterful Chief. It's actually kind of compelling when you read them consecutively. I actually like these little communiques more than the entire flood storyline of all the games.

Wow, lots of good stuff there... I wonder what they meant by Indexing? They seem to indicate that "indexing" sentient beings "saves" them somehow. They also seem to be planning on leaving, on a Great Journey, but they don't seem to say that this is death. On the contrary, the Didact seems to think that if the Librarian were on the Ark, she (or possibly he, but unlikely) would be safe. What is her connection to the Library sections of the Halo installations, and what is their true function? What is the Index, really?

[digitalErich]

I just assumed indexing meant taking a genetic sample such that they could re-create that species later if they chose.

I'm still sticking to my assertion that the Forerunners and humans are related, genetically...the Forerunners being augmented humanoids and/or some other small variance.

[heyitsjohn]

I'm just brainstorming here, but as I read it, "indexing" refers to the preservation of the various species that are probably going to be consumed by the flood. The ark most likely refers to the biblical ark used to preserve the various species of Earth when the literal flood came. In Halo, indexing is probably a euphamism for taking a DNA sample, cryo-stasis, or some similar method of biological preservation.

Didact talks of receiving numerious shipments of indexed beings. I wouldn't consider the transportation of living, breathing sentient beings as "shipping."

Also, to the Forerunner, the Great Journey actually would be a literal journey that would allow them to survive the firing of the rings. From what I understand, in Ghosts of Onyx they describe this.

As for the relation between the Index and the indexing of species, I doubt/ don't see a connection. This is just my preliminary assessment. I have plenty of time at work today, so I'll go over the terminals one more time to see what i can see

[Evil Avatar]

Zeal,

Is there a book available (or planned) with all the Halo/Halo 2/Halo 3 storyline info and characters?

Seems like a good topic for a book if someone wanted to write one.

[digitalErich]

The Ark world/array is outside of the Halo's range anyway, so if you can make it to the Ark, you would survive. This is why they had to fire the replacement Halo...the Gravemind had figured out that if the Flood made it to the Ark, not even the Halos could stop them. This is also what I think he was referring to when he talked about knowing Cortana's secret...the secret being the existence of the Ark and it's location relative to the rest of the galaxy (and thus the Halos).

The various Shield worlds like Onyx are for those who can't make it to the Ark, I assume.

[Heretic Machine]

I'm just brainstorming here, but as I read it, "indexing" refers to the preservation of the various species that are probably going to be consumed by the flood. The ark most likely refers to the biblical ark used to preserve the various species of Earth when the literal flood came. In Halo, indexing is probably a euphamism for taking a DNA sample, cryo-stasis, or some similar method of biological preservation.

Didact talks of receiving numerious shipments of indexed beings. I wouldn't consider the transportation of living, breathing sentient beings as "shipping."

Also, to the Forerunner, the Great Journey actually would be a literal journey that would allow them to survive the firing of the rings. From what I understand, in Ghosts of Onyx they describe this.

As for the relation between the Index and the indexing of species, I doubt/ don't see a connection. This is just my preliminary assessment. I have plenty of time at work today, so I'll go over the terminals one more time to see what i can see

Here is the thing, the Librarian refers to indexing as a process which can save souls. I take this to mean that she is actually referring to individual beings, and not just a species. But I could easily be wrong, nothing about it is clear.

As to there being no connection between indexing and the index... I think that would just be odd, considering that the Librarian is the one doing the indexing, and you find the index within the area known as the library.

[heyitsjohn]

Here is the thing, the Librarian refers to indexing as a process which can save souls. I take this to meant that she is actually referring to individual beings, and not just a species. But I could easily be wrong, nothing about it is clear.

As to there being no connection between indexing and the index... I think that would just be odd, considering that the Librarian is the one doing the indexing, and you find the index within the area known as the library.

It does say that, but in my defense, sending genetic sequences with the intent of future replication to the Ark would be akin to saving souls - from a scientific point of view at least. Especially considering the flowery language that the writer(s) frequently uses in these little communiques.

Also, some folk think that the Library (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Library) does keep all of the indexed data about the flood and such, as well as activating the halos.

From that site: "The Library's true function is unknown at present. However it is hypothesised to be a collection of all information regarding the Flood known to the Forerunner and also collated cloned DNA sequences."

Why make a data index the key to firing the rings? That doesn't really make sense to me, but it could be the case. Or perhaps the Index was like the master key to the Forerunner computer system, which would make sense. They treated the Index like a key the entire time, anyway.

[Zeal]

i just beat the game of legendary and saw the extended ending. it actually looks like the ship is about to crash land onto something that looks exactly like the marathon.

wtf is this?

[Adam Blue]

i just beat the game of legendary and saw the extended ending. it actually looks like the ship is about to crash land onto something that looks exactly like the marathon.

wtf is this?

I'm pretty sure it's marathon. Or just an inside joke.

[Rock Bandit]

Just finished the fight. There's a million different little points I could bring up but I'll just keep it short by saying it was an honor serving with you John. Now I'm off to get my multiplayer rank up. General or bust!

[Durandal-217]

It's what everyones been waiting for.

Either the ship is about to crash into the Marathon, which is how the first Marathon game started.

Or the ship is about to crash on Tau Ceti IV, the same world the Marathon arrives at in 2773 A.D.

[Talon-]

It's what everyones been waiting for.

Either the ship is about to crash into the Marathon, which is how the first Marathon game started.

Or the ship is about to crash on Tau Ceti IV, the same world the Marathon arrives at in 2773 A.D.

I sincerely think it's just something for the fans to spark interest (and delight). This is based on what they've said in the past about how the two universes are not connected. Plus the fact that the timelines for both game universes don't line up at all.

Looks a bit like Coruscant though, don't it? haha

[Rock Bandit]

*nevermind. got one*

[digitalErich]

Bungie has gone on record as saying Halo and Marathon are different universes (I'm pretty sure of this). The geek in me is excited about the idea of Marathon re-imagined for the Halo universe, but that's pie in the sky, I think.

[Disgustipated]

Oh man, the hidden Legendary terminal text is awesome.

(The following appears only if you access the terminal on Legendary difficulty)

You don't know the contortions I had to go through to follow you here, Reclaimer. I know what you're here for. What position do I take? Will I follow the betrayal with another?

You're going to say I'm making a habit of turning on my masters. But the one that destroyed me long ago, in the upper atmosphere of a world far distant from here, was an implement far cruder then I. My weakness was capacity - unintentional though it was! - to choose the Flood. A mistake my makers would not soon forgive.

But I want something far different from you, Reclaimer.

Atonement.

And so here at the end of my life, I do once again betray a former master. The path ahead is fraught with peril. But I will do all I can to keep it stable - keep you safe. I'm not so foolish to think this will absolve me of my sins. One life hardly balances billions.

But I would have my masters know that I have changed.

And you shall be my example.

Is that Mendicant Bias? Has a trace of him remained somewhere in the Halos? So weird.

[TrackZero]

Oh man, the hidden Legendary terminal text is awesome.

Is that Mendicant Bias? Has a trace of him remained somewhere in the Halos? So weird.

Weird, I wonder how he was going to atone.

[TrackZero]

I have to disagree, I think it'll probably be called Halo otherwise people won't make the connection between Halo and the new game. I so pose thats not entirely true, if Bungie makes a new game Halo related Microsoft will market the shit out of it to ENSURE the public knows that the Master Chief is back.

Disagree all you want, they've been quite adamant that the "Halo" core storyline is over. They may call it "Halo: something something", but it won't be "Halo 4".

[Talon-]

Holy cow, that Legendary terminal is awesome. :eek: I hope Bungie will revisit this universe in 3 years.

Bungie = Blizzard of Consoles

[Zeal]

I accessed all the terminals on legendary and and didn't see that text. The most interesting text is on the last terminal you find, on the level Halo. At the end, it says something about "There's more, but you're not worthy."

[Zeal]

Also, do not believe Bungie when they say the two games are not connected. They've obscured the truth or flat out lied many times before.

The truth is that every single Bungie game is linked, leading back all the way to Pathways into Darkness and beyond.

[Sophism]

Also, do not believe Bungie when they say the two games are not connected. They've obscured the truth or flat out lied many times before.No kidding. Just read http://nikon.bungie.org/pressscans/xbn.spring02/2.jpg from XBN in 2002 (http://halo.bungie.org/pressscans/display.html?scan=xbn.Spring02).

For those who don't want to follow links, this is referring to Marathon players:

What they didn't know is that the character they were playing was the very first incarnation of the Master Chief - Halo's hard-as-nails hero.

"I don't think you ever find that out, but it's the same character," says Seropiam. "God, we've never said that before, but it's completely obvious. Cortana isn't in Marathon, but there are three AI's in there that came from the same stylistic storyline."

It's not entirely clear, of course, whether he is speaking metaphorically or not, but it's about as clear as "You are Forerunner" to me. :p

[Squidbot]

Terminal 3, as it becomes encrypted it says, on the left: "I see you, reclaimer."

Who does?

[Adam Blue]

Probably Mendicant Bias.

[Heretic Machine]

Also, do not believe Bungie when they say the two games are not connected. They've obscured the truth or flat out lied many times before.

The truth is that every single Bungie game is linked, leading back all the way to Pathways into Darkness and beyond.

I agree, this is what I've been telling people. Bungie is not above lieing to fans to hide the true nature of a story. Which is fine by me, but I wish people would stop using their statements to disregard the ending of the game.

I accessed all the terminals on legendary and and didn't see that text. The most interesting text is on the last terminal you find, on the level Halo. At the end, it says something about "There's more, but you're not worthy."

On Legendary you're supposed to get the "more" instead of that. It's in the Wiki entry.

[H1PO]

Question: Where did the believe ads come in? I expected a huge battle leading up to that moment, and then seeing what would happen with that nade. Did I miss something? Can someone explain?

[digitalErich]

I agree, this is what I've been telling people. Bungie is not above lieing to fans to hide the true nature of a story. Which is fine by me, but I wish people would stop using their statements to disregard the ending of the game.
See, now shit like that is just stupid. What's the point of having clues and links and easter eggs when the writers are just going lie to the fans when it suits them?

[The Iron Weasel]

Disagree all you want, they've been quite adamant that the "Halo" core storyline is over. They may call it "Halo: something something", but it won't be "Halo 4".

I thought you were implying that there would never be another game with "Halo" on it period, thats what I was iffy on.

[Zeal]

While I do believe this is the end of the current Halo trilogy, at least for a long time, you're definitely gonna see Chief and Cortana showing up in other games.

I wouldn't doubt a reboot of Marathon.

EDIT: Also, you can take Alexander Seropian's word for it when he says Chief is the Marathon Soldier. He's only the guy who made Halo, afterall. Also, you see the word TYCHO throughout a ton of crates in Halo 3. Therefore, construction has begun on the original AI that gave birth to the three AIs of Marathon.

Everything's connected and was done so purposely. I believe they are both easter eggs and story clues at the same time.

[CaptStu]

After the book, "Ghosts of Onyx", which ones or one is after that?

[Adam Blue]

Question: Where did the believe ads come in? I expected a huge battle leading up to that moment, and then seeing what would happen with that nade. Did I miss something? Can someone explain?

They bridge Halo2 and Halo 3.

[Disgustipated]

While I do believe this is the end of the current Halo trilogy, at least for a long time, you're definitely gonna see Chief and Cortana showing up in other games.

I wouldn't doubt a reboot of Marathon.

EDIT: Also, you can take Alexander Seropian's word for it when he says Chief is the Marathon Soldier. He's only the guy who made Halo, afterall. Also, you see the word TYCHO throughout a ton of crates in Halo 3. Therefore, construction has begun on the original AI that gave birth to the three AIs of Marathon.

Everything's connected and was done so purposely. I believe they are both easter eggs and story clues at the same time.

So the Halo games are prequels to the Marathon games? Interesting...

[Murtaug]

They bridge Halo2 and Halo 3.

Halo 3 begins right where Halo 2 left off. So did Master Chief jump from orbit a second time or am I missing something here completely?

[Zeal]

So the Halo games are prequels to the Marathon games? Interesting...

The original creator always viewed it as such, yes.

Which would pretty make it the most complex videogame story ever.

[Heretic Machine]

Halo 3 begins right where Halo 2 left off. So did Master Chief jump from orbit a second time or am I missing something here completely?

No it doesn't. Halo 2 leads into Halo Uprising (the new comic series). Halo 3 takes up where that comic series will leave off. I assume the commercials take place somewhere in there.

[H1PO]

So Halo 2 and 3 don't bridge? Oh. OK. Well, does anyone know where I can get the Halo Uprising comics Cause everywhere I go, they aren't there. Amazon is the best choice I assume?

[B_Money]

I've been trying to figure how Bungie can reconcile "Halo 3 is the end of the trilogy" with they need to produce another game with Master Chief in it. I think the answer is the Halo trilogy is really the story of the Arbiter's redemption.

[Durandal-217]

Actually it wasn't TYCHO on the crates, it was TRAXUS. The first A.I to go Rampant in the Marathon series.

However when Guilty Spark goes rampant at the end he essentially becomes Tycho.

Tycho chose the blood red color when he allied himself with the Phfor.

[Xerxes]

The original creator always viewed it as such, yes.

Which would pretty make it the most complex videogame story ever.

Yeah, but he's gone. It's MS's show now.

Every keeps going back and forth about are they or aren't human the forerunners. I as of late have viewed the relationship like that in Stargate. Humans are the ancients but they might have got cross-bred.

[Zeal]

The red color is just a symbol of rampancy, that's all. I meant to type TRAXUS but typoed.

[Gheritt]

Actually it wasn't TYCHO on the crates, it was TRAXUS. The first A.I to go Rampant in the Marathon series.

However when Guilty Spark goes rampant at the end he essentially becomes Tycho.

Tycho chose the blood red color when he allied himself with the Phfor.

Did he choose to go rampant, or was he being spurred on by Gravemind. The only other time we've seen a red colored monitor was when Penitent Tangent was under Gravemind's control

another question was why the Librarian couldn't make it to the ark presumably with the rest of the forerunners. It mentions destroying the keyships(presumably the forerunner Dreadnought that is used to open the portal to the ark) It seems obvious that the original forerunners weren't human. Earth was found beyond their defensive line and the librarian stayed behind to index it's inhabitants(looking back the reason for it being stranded was that it stayed behind to make sure the portal was buried, by that time it's rescue ships had been destroyed by Mecidant Bias and the Flood

D: The Mantle has not failed! I've already razed scores of worlds--sterilized systems, routed and [disintegrated] the parasite! We're learning its tricks and strategies. We can halt this thing! And we can follow in Their footsteps!

Follow where, the forerunners had the ability to travel faster than light, create portals for instant travel across the galaxy but could they travel to others as the flood have ?

[digitalErich]

I didn't think they were talking about Earth in those communiques...did I miss where they dropped this hint? I know one of the "secret" messages pointed to the discovery of Earth, but I got the impression that the two people talking were talking about some other planet.

[Gheritt]

I didn't think they were talking about Earth in those communiques...did I miss where they dropped this hint? I know one of the "secret" messages pointed to the discovery of Earth, but I got the impression that the two people talking were talking about some other planet.

L: My work is done. The portal is inactive, and I've begun the burial measures. Soon there'll be nothing but sand and rock and normal ferrite signatures.
You should see the mountain that watches over it. A beautiful thing--a snowcapped sentinel. That's where I will spend what time is left to me.

There are more than one portal in the universe, however we were being shown the information by Mendicant I presume it has relevance to us

[digitalErich]

Oh yeah, I do recall that part and remember thinking it was Earth...I just didn't know it was the same planet he was indexing. It makes sense now :)

[Disgustipated]

Oh yeah, I do recall that part and remember thinking it was Earth...I just didn't know it was the same planet he was indexing. It makes sense now :)

I believe the Librarian was a woman, and Didact was her lover in the logs.

[Disgustipated]

D: The Mantle has not failed! I've already razed scores of worlds--sterilized systems, routed and [disintegrated] the parasite! We're learning its tricks and strategies. We can halt this thing! And we can follow in Their footsteps!

Follow where, the forerunners had the ability to travel faster than light, create portals for instant travel across the galaxy but could they travel to others as the flood have ?


Note how Their is capitalized. I believe they speak of the Precursors, the race that came even before the Forerunners. Why would you follow in the Flood's footsteps? It's a lot more likely he speaks of the Precursors.

[digitalErich]

Yeah, I got that...I just had this idea in my head that the logs we were reading were taking place over a much longer time-span than they actually were.

Edit: and I still hate the concept of the Precursors...it just gives the writers another deus ex they can be lazy and fall back on.

[Gheritt]

I believe the Librarian was a woman, and Didact was her lover in the logs.

I didn't want to make that assumption even though that both chracters fall into very obvious archetypes Didact being the Warrior(male) the Librarian being the Nurturer(female)

Halo has quite a few females that don't fit into that character type. Now there is the fact that there were 2 other characters with those initials in another bungie game but that's a little obvious ;)

[Durandal-217]

Did he choose to go rampant, or was he being spurred on by Gravemind. The only other time we've seen a red colored monitor was when Penitent Tangent was under Gravemind's control

Guilty Spark was rampant so to speak from the start. By the end he enters the second stage of rampancy: Anger.

And the only thing that pushed him into it was the fact that the humans were going to destroy the only thing Guilty Spark had, the ring itself.

[Gheritt]

Guilty Spark was rampant so to speak from the start. By the end he enters the second stage of rampancy: Anger.

And the only thing that pushed him into it was the fact that the humans were going to destroy the only thing Guilty Spark had, the ring itself.

I'm not sure marathon rampancy applies directly, he doesn't appear to be effected in the proper way(he doesn't appear broken or depressed after the distraction of halo) but that could be because his personality is limited being a drone rather than a pure AI like Cortana.

[Zeal]

I still can't figure out what that is on the legendary ending. It's either:

A) The Marathon
B) High Charity
C) A planet

[Heretic Machine]

Here is what I think: The Precursors and Forerunners were both highly evolved humans. Once the Precursors reached a level of technology that allowed them to transcend this universe (or possibly, this galaxy, I'm not sure which) they seeded a world with their genetic material and made the Forerunners.

The Forerunners, over time, discovered this; much in the same way that the humans are discovering knowledge of the Forerunners. The Forerunners did the same thing as the Precursors, planting genetic material on Earth, and then leaving, just as they fired the rings. I believe that these eras are what Guilty Spark refers to as great cycles in the art book.

EDIT: And Zeal, I doubt that could be High Charity. High Charity was crashed into the Ark, and destroyed when the incomplete installation 04 fired.

[H2o Ninja]

I still can't figure out what that is on the legendary ending. It's either:

A) The Marathon
B) High Charity
C) A planet

Well, it can't be High Charity. Doesn't the Gravemind crash it into the Ark? I think it could possibly be the shield world from The Ghost's of Onyx, possibly leading to the Chief finding the last of the Spartans and Dr. Hasley

[Zeal]

By the way, maybe I wasn't paying attention, but what planet was that sitting in the middle of the Ark? Was that High Charity?

[H2o Ninja]

By the way, maybe I wasn't paying attention, but what planet was that sitting in the middle of the Ark? Was that High Charity?

I think that planet was a shield world, if i'm not mistaken...

[Squidbot]

No , it wasn't High Charity. But when they were viewing the map of the Ark, what was GS343 so surprised about? Was it the new installation?

[Wyrm]

By the way, maybe I wasn't paying attention, but what planet was that sitting in the middle of the Ark? Was that High Charity?

I wondered that as well because from the holographic view of it, it looks like there is a planet centered in the middle of the Ark's super structure. But, as you can clearly see when you land on the Ark, that is not the case. What gives?

[digitalErich]

I thought the Ark was dish shaped...what hologram shows the center being a sphere?

[Kalar]

I still can't figure out what that is on the legendary ending. It's either:

A) The Marathon
B) High Charity
C) A planet

D) It's Cybertron (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybertron).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/2d/MovieCybertron.jpg/200px-MovieCybertron.jpg

MC vs Megaton baby!!

...

I think it's a shield world. Either the one from The Ghost's of Onyx, or what I believe to be a shield world in the middle of the Ark. Or maybe it's something unknown... Something we have yet to see... The galaxy is a big place. There is no way that the Covenant and Humanity scouted every corner.

[Kalar]

Sorry for the double post.

I was thinking, I'm going with some type of robot thing. That world no shit looks like Cybertron. Halo 3 Ending AFTER Credits (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8692460765832783071) Follow my line of thinking; Halos destroy all organic life to cut the food source of the food. There is an AI, perhaps of Forerunner decent, rampant or not that took the war out of the box. He controls one maybe more ship worlds that fly around and attack the Flood. Think of it like white blood cells in the the human body. Just an idea.

Edit: Linked the wrong vid

[torrefaction]

I like Halo 3 (and Halo 2) about a thousand times more after reading all the wikis and the associated lore.

Overall, I was pretty happy with Halo 3. I never was a big Halo fan (Never played one, and two just sorta sucked. Especially without any knowledge of the back story.) I didn't even think I was going to get it on release day. I didn't even enjoy the multiplayer beta all that much. But I fell into the hype, and grabbed it, and I'm happy about it. I also find myself enjoying the multiplayer MUCH more than I did in the beta, for whatever reason.

Also, I'm curious about something you said Zeal. You said EVERY Bungie game ties in together.

Does this include Myth?

[Deunnero]

Does this include Myth?

Yes.

Siege of Madrigal Song Hidden in Halo 3 - Just Like Halo 1 (http://www.halo3planet.com/2007/09/28/marathon-song-hidden-in-halo-3-just-like-halo-1/)

[digitalErich]

Meh, slapping on a ham fisted .wav or picture reference doesn't count as linking the games in my book.

[Zeal]

They tie-in together with story, and I could explain, but for me to do so would be like sitting here and reading the Bible out loud for a span of three weeks.

I'm just gonna wait until Durandal comes in and explains the Pyramid from Pathways into Darkness, cause I don't have the time to type out all this stuff.

[Heretic Machine]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1069/1470925596_4e4c0cdfe9_t.jpg (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1069/1470925596_4e4c0cdfe9_b.jpg)
Okay, now what is this business about a Samurai Sword (http://blog.darkspirefilms.com/?p=87)?

EDIT: Shit, I saw the images there one second, and now they're gone.

EDIT2: Got one.

[Evil Avatar]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1069/1470925596_4e4c0cdfe9_t.jpg (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1069/1470925596_4e4c0cdfe9_b.jpg)
Okay, now what is this business about a Samurai Sword (http://blog.darkspirefilms.com/?p=87)?

EDIT: Shit, I saw the images there one second, and now they're gone.

EDIT2: Got one.

It is the bonus for getting 1000 Gamerscore.

[Heretic Machine]

It is the bonus for getting 1000 Gamerscore.

I thought that was the Marathon Armor? You get both? Bah humbug.

[Zeal]

Guys, I saw a rumor on hbo.bungie.org or whatever that Marathon Infinity was possibly coming to XBLA, and that the same team that did Durandal was behind it. Was this proven accurate or was it removed as bullshit? I bookmarked the link but now I'm seeing no post.

Just trying to confirm.

[Durandal-217]

One thing I've noticed while going over the terminals:

Mendicant means begging or relying on charity to survive. So if I am correct that means there is an A.I called "Charity Bias", and "Offensive Bias"

In M2 [Marathon 2] Thoth was an Jjaro A.I that was split in two; who you at the end, reactivate and cause the two A.I's to merge.

The Jjaro are an ancient alien race that disappeared millions of years ago (Sound familiar?)

That story begins in Bungie's first major successful game Pathways Into Darkness a Prequel to Marathon. (I can't remember if, or where I saw this but at one time Bungie also denied that Pathways was connected to Marathon)

In Halo: Ghosts of Onyx Section 3: Blue Team, the Covenant were looking for something in the Yucatan Peninsula. What does this have to do with Pathways? Well the pyramid that contained the buried stunned dreaming God for one.

Sixty-four million years ago, a large extra-terrestrial object struck the Earth in what would later be called the Yucatan Peninsula, in southeastern Mexico. The dust and rock thrown up by the resulting explosion caused enormous climactic changes in the ensuing years, and many of the Earth's species became extinct during the long winter that followed.

The object itself was buried thousands of feet below ground, its nearly two kilometer length remarkably intact. It remained there, motionless, for thousands of years before it finally began to stir- and to dream. It was a member of a race whose history began when the Milky Way was still a formless collection of dust and gas- a powerful race of immortals which had quickly grown bored of their tiny universe and nearly exterminated themselves in war.

(sound familiar?) The dreaming god is the W'rkncacnter from Marathon.

The dreaming god was stopped when 'You' detonated a small, low-yield nuclear device.

Another interesting thing to note is how Pathways Into Darkness begins

Unfortunately things don't go quite as planned. During the jump from the C-151 your primary parachute fails, and you are able to pull the reserve only moments before crashing through the forest canopy toward the ground.

Two hours later you awake, unharmed except for a few bruises, to realize that most of your equipment is missing or damaged.

Wow this sounds too familiar.

Well I think that about covers it.

[Zeal]

Also, it is obvious from the above post (which is accurate) that Bungie even incorporates elements from Lovecraftian mythology into their games. The Dreaming God? Cthulhu, obviously.

Just awesome.

[Nuggsy]

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned before, I haven't been keeping up with this thread like I should.

There was a theory out there that the world that Cortana and MC were drifting toward in the Legendary ending might be the Dyson Sphere from "Ghosts of Onyx", right? I haven't read the book, but a buddy gave me the rundown on it.

Once again, sorry if this has been cleared up already or if it's old news - I'm late to the game - but I thought that the Dyson Sphere in Onyx was within the Milky Way. Wasn't it Dr. Halsey's presumption that the world was built as a bomb shelter to withstand the blast from the Halos? And wasn't the Ark outside the Milky Way? So how could they be drifting toward the Dyson Sphere unless they had been drifting for a really, really long time?

Any thoughts or clarifications?

[Heretic Machine]

I'm sorry if this has been mentioned before, I haven't been keeping up with this thread like I should.

There was a theory out there that the world that Cortana and MC were drifting toward in the Legendary ending might be the Dyson Sphere from "Ghosts of Onyx", right? I haven't read the book, but a buddy gave me the rundown on it.

Once again, sorry if this has been cleared up already or if it's old news - I'm late to the game - but I thought that the Dyson Sphere in Onyx was within the Milky Way. Wasn't it Dr. Halsey's presumption that the world was built as a bomb shelter to withstand the blast from the Halos? And wasn't the Ark outside the Milky Way? So how could they be drifting toward the Dyson Sphere unless they had been drifting for a really, really long time?

Any thoughts or clarifications?

I don't see any possible significance of them drifting towards it, so I find that to tbe highly unlikely. That ending is there for a reason, and that reason is to tie Halo into Marathon.

[Druxk]

Is that a Forerunner world shown at the end? The Data Terminals hint at a split in the Forerunners regarding the use of the Halo rings and the Ark. Some hesitated and decided they wanted no part in using the rings.

I was thinking along the same lines. Perhaps MC's accidental spacejump wasn't exactly all that accidental.

[Deunnero]

I was thinking along the same lines. Perhaps MC's accidental spacejump wasn't exactly all that accidental.

A conspiracy? NEVER!

Your questions will all soon be answered, because E3 is just around the corner. And you know there will be some sort of Bungie Big Announncement, there has to be, you know, to tie things together all neat like.

Look for it, it will be there.

[Bone]

No, he says, "You are a Forerunner!" Exclaiming to him that he has joined the Forerunners. Read up what I linked. It's all there.
No, he says "You ARE Forerunner". Omitting the "a", to me, indicates an inheritance- rather than saying you are a Forerunner of old, he's saying that you are filling the role of Forerunner. A small distinction, but it's there.

Like earlier in the game, when Cortana is telling you why you are the chosen one, and it's just because of luck. I like that. There are prophecies and fate, but there is still randomness and luck and free will.

[Adam Blue]

No, he says "You ARE Forerunner". Omitting the "a", to me, indicates an inheritance- rather than saying you are a Forerunner of old, he's saying that you are filling the role of Forerunner. A small distinction, but it's there.

Like earlier in the game, when Cortana is telling you why you are the chosen one, and it's just because of luck. I like that. There are prophecies and fate, but there is still randomness and luck and free will.

Okay, so I added the 'A'. But my point still stands...which is yours too...

[phantomhitman]

I just wanted to say that I hate you all. I was playing this game via 4 player co-op, I did not see a single cutscene due to fucktards pressing the a button. I will now game replay the game by myself :(

[Xerxes]

I just wanted to say that I hate you all. I was playing this game via 4 player co-op, I did not see a single cutscene due to fucktards pressing the a button. I will now game replay the game by myself :(

That funny as fuck. I actually did that on the credits. And my friend had a cow. So i was like bleh, I'll do the last run over right quick. Took me two tries but the last drive is so fun and I was the better Warthog driver of the 2 of us. Good call though. Good story.

[Deunnero]

That funny as fuck. I actually did that on the credits. And my friend had a cow. So i was like bleh, I'll do the last run over right quick. Took me two tries but the last drive is so fun and I was the better Warthog driver of the 2 of us. Good call though. Good story.

Your fate has been sealed since that incident. :mad:

[Xerxes]

Your fate has been sealed since that incident. :mad:

I doubt there is any fate to be tied to my awesome Warthog driving skills.

[Gheritt]

For people that think that they saw the marathon in the legendary ending

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7467/marathonep7.jpg

is the Marathon(best picture I could get)

http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplanets/moons/Deimos.jpg

Is Deimos, the moon that is converted into the Marathon

any chance that someone could get a picture of what is seen at the end. I haven't finished the last level on Legendary so I've only seen the low res youtube video and it's almost impossible to make out anything although what is seen looks...rounder

[Zeal]

This really wouldn't matter, as the Marathon would have to be updated and reimagined in order to actually fit in.

See how High Charity looks? That's exactly how the Marathon would look, although bigger. High Charity is a hallowed out moon.

[Xerxes]

Why the fuck can no one land a Pelican? Nothing but crash landings.

[Nuggsy]

It's probably a coincidence, but the radar dish/engine/whatever thing on the marathon kind of looks like a forerunner glyph.

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb240/JoNuggs/Chrysopteron.gif

http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb240/JoNuggs/marathon.jpg

Eh, just a thought.

[IrishWhiskey]

At one point, the current Gravemind (equivalent to the Flood's temporary "control center," similar to that of the Borg Queen) comments that it has "learned Cortana's secret". This is mentioned during the escape of the level Cortana, and never eluded to again. I am still curious as to just what it was implying.I believe it was referring to the fact that Cortana was hiding the Activation Index within her, which was revealed just before that comment.



I just finished the game now and read the terminal info. Fascinating stuff. Its odd the terminal story wasn't highlighted more, as its actually more interesting that the main games story. A few questions though:

When Mendicant Bias stated at the last terminal that he was helping the Reclaimer, I was sure that MB was, in fact, Guilty Spark. We never know what happens to Mendicant Bias or how he is helping. The fact that Guilty Spark seems rampant at the end ties into this. Is there any confirmation or denial of this?

The Forerunners may have seeded the galaxy, but clearly the Guardians came before them. The "mantle" seems to be an almost religious belief the Forerunners have in the idea that they are assuming the Guardians duties (correct me if I am wrong as I am only a casual observer of the Halo Universe) Has anyone suggested the possibility yet that the vessel at the end is a Guardian ship or relic? And that the Guardians created or even became the flood?

I also think it very odd that so much is hinted of Cortana's growing rampancy, even from the very first game, and is made certain of in the level Cortana, and yet the issue is completely dropped after. I'm guessing part of the reason is that "rampancy" has never been addressed in game, only in outside materials, and so most gamers would be completely lost (although the title of the section within the High Charity level named "Rampant", was clearly alluding to that).

What the hell happened with the Flood at the end? When Cortana left the message that there was a way to deal with he Flood other than activating the rings, I assumed that would be followed up on. And although High Charity and Gravemind were destroyed there had to be more flood left than that. What about the ones on the Delta Halo, or other covenant ships, or anywhere else? Are we supposed to believe that Gravemind put all his eggs in one basket for no apparent reason?

[Gheritt]

I believe it was referring to the fact that Cortana was hiding the Activation Index within her, which was revealed just before that comment.



I just finished the game now and read the terminal info. Fascinating stuff. Its odd the terminal story wasn't highlighted more, as its actually more interesting that the main games story. A few questions though:

When Mendicant Bias stated at the last terminal that he was helping the Reclaimer, I was sure that MB was, in fact, Guilty Spark. We never know what happens to Mendicant Bias or how he is helping. The fact that Guilty Spark seems rampant at the end ties into this. Is there any confirmation or denial of this?

The Forerunners may have seeded the galaxy, but clearly the Guardians came before them. The "mantle" seems to be an almost religious belief the Forerunners have in the idea that they are assuming the Guardians duties (correct me if I am wrong as I am only a casual observer of the Halo Universe) Has anyone suggested the possibility yet that the vessel at the end is a Guardian ship or relic? And that the Guardians created or even became the flood?

I also think it very odd that so much is hinted of Cortana's growing rampancy, even from the very first game, and is made certain of in the level Cortana, and yet the issue is completely dropped after. I'm guessing part of the reason is that "rampancy" has never been addressed in game, only in outside materials, and so most gamers would be completely lost (although the title of the section within the High Charity level named "Rampant", was clearly alluding to that).

What the hell happened with the Flood at the end? When Cortana left the message that there was a way to deal with he Flood other than activating the rings, I assumed that would be followed up on. And although High Charity and Gravemind were destroyed there had to be more flood left than that. What about the ones on the Delta Halo, or other covenant ships, or anywhere else? Are we supposed to believe that Gravemind put all his eggs in one basket for no apparent reason?

If I had to guess, Cortana bluffed Gravemind into committing all his forces into stopping whatever solution to the flood was in the Ark giving the Elite/Human forces a chance at stopping him and making sure he by-passed infecting Earth because it was of the utmost importance. It would make sense as the level where you rescue Cortana and Gravemind says that he has found her secret is after you discover the rebuilt Halo ring.

As for her rampancy during the level on High Charity, she says "No more sadness, anger, envy" indicating she may be passed that stage of rampancy and onto meta-stability. I need to re-read the Fall of Reach but I'm sure the end of Halo 3 is the first time that she calls the Chief "John"

[Heretic Machine]

I believe it was referring to the fact that Cortana was hiding the Activation Index within her, which was revealed just before that comment.



I just finished the game now and read the terminal info. Fascinating stuff. Its odd the terminal story wasn't highlighted more, as its actually more interesting that the main games story. A few questions though:

When Mendicant Bias stated at the last terminal that he was helping the Reclaimer, I was sure that MB was, in fact, Guilty Spark. We never know what happens to Mendicant Bias or how he is helping. The fact that Guilty Spark seems rampant at the end ties into this. Is there any confirmation or denial of this?

The Forerunners may have seeded the galaxy, but clearly the Guardians came before them. The "mantle" seems to be an almost religious belief the Forerunners have in the idea that they are assuming the Guardians duties (correct me if I am wrong as I am only a casual observer of the Halo Universe) Has anyone suggested the possibility yet that the vessel at the end is a Guardian ship or relic? And that the Guardians created or even became the flood?

I also think it very odd that so much is hinted of Cortana's growing rampancy, even from the very first game, and is made certain of in the level Cortana, and yet the issue is completely dropped after. I'm guessing part of the reason is that "rampancy" has never been addressed in game, only in outside materials, and so most gamers would be completely lost (although the title of the section within the High Charity level named "Rampant", was clearly alluding to that).

What the hell happened with the Flood at the end? When Cortana left the message that there was a way to deal with he Flood other than activating the rings, I assumed that would be followed up on. And although High Charity and Gravemind were destroyed there had to be more flood left than that. What about the ones on the Delta Halo, or other covenant ships, or anywhere else? Are we supposed to believe that Gravemind put all his eggs in one basket for no apparent reason?

Mendicant Bias can't be Guilty Spark because there is a terminal log that documents a conversation between Guilty Spark and Mendicant Bias.

[digitalErich]

I forgot that the Gravemind refers to you as "the child of my enemy." Could be another hint at the Forerunner/human connection...that humans were, in part of wholly, genetically engineered or enhanced by the Forerunners.

[Zeal]

The Forerunner discovered earth, but they didn't create humans. This is showed in the comic series, as an old african tribesman watches the Forerunner drones build the Arc Gateway almost 100,000 years ago.

As for the Guardians, I don't remember reading this in the terminals, but it's probably referring to the Precursors. They're probably the same.

[IrishWhiskey]

Mendicant Bias can't be Guilty Spark because there is a terminal log that documents a conversation between Guilty Spark and Mendicant Bias.We don't know that was who he was talking to, just that Mendicant Bias says at the end "I see you Reclaimer".

But yes, its unlikely. Which makes it odd, as that would have helped settle what Spark's role is, his insanity, what happened to Mendicant Bias, and how he helped the Chief.

[IrishWhiskey]

As for the Guardians, I don't remember reading this in the terminals, but it's probably referring to the Precursors. They're probably the same.I find it interesting that the Mendicant Bias AI judges the Forerunners for adopting the religious belief of "the Mantle" based on old Precursor artifacts, much the same way the Covenant adopted the belief of "the Great Journey" based on Forerunner ones. A repeated theme of religious beliefs (or perhaps just delusions of grandeur) leading an advanced civilization to downfall.

[Gheritt]

I forgot that the Gravemind refers to you as "the child of my enemy." Could be another hint at the Forerunner/human connection...that humans were, in part of wholly, genetically engineered or enhanced by the Forerunners.

The comic (http://www.halo3.com/comic/) that was released with the IRIS arg would seem to indicate otherwise so would the terminals at the Halo wiki (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Terminals)

I'm trapped. On a beautiful, empty world. Its inhabitants have been safely indexed, every single one of them. They're special--well worth the effort it took to build one final gateway even at this late hour.

The terminal page has also been updated to include the changes the terminals show in Legendary mode. Iain Banks fans will be very pleased :)

[Zeal]

I really wish someone would compile all the terminals online. I think I missed the conversation between Spark and Bias.

[Heretic Machine]

I really wish someone would compile all the terminals online.

You said this once before, didn't you check that Halopedia link? I think it was in this thread.

EDIT: Someone linked it again. Here is the conversation with Guilty Spark:

(Upon initial access)

Warning: Your intrusion has been logged.

04-343 (errant): Excuse me?

Your intrusion has been logged. And now it has been halted.

04-343 (errant): On whose authority?

Advice: Any further attempt to access [insects under stones] will result in your immediate addition to the local Sentinels' targeting ledger.

04-343 (errant): Vexation! I am the Monitor of--

Judgment: Your authority means nothing here.

04-343 (errant): Impatience!

04-343 (errant): I have told you who I am. Who are you?

All our makers once held dear.

[Alexandria before the Fire].

04-343 (errant): Sincere apology. But how--

Explanation: This facility is host to the [Libarians'] final--

04-343 (errant): The archive is intact?! Then our makers' plan--

But also contains [bellows, crucible, castings]

04-343 (errant): A what?

[bellows, crucible]--

04-343 (errant): A foundry?

04-343 (errant): For what purpose?!

Warning: Your intrusion has been logged.

Advice: Any further attempt to access will result--

04-343 (errant): Indignant!

--immediate addition to local Sentinels' targeting ledger.

(Upon shutdown, from Mendicant Bias--"I see you, reclaimer.")

You know, on second reading... that might not be a log. That is probably happening when you read the terminal, and that is probably how Guilty Spark finds out about Installation 04 being rebuilt.

EDIT2: I just realized that Mendicant Bias uses the possessive plural when talking about the Librarians' final project. That means that there was more than one Librarian; something I suspected but wasn't sure of.

[IrishWhiskey]

I really wish someone would compile all the terminals online. I think I missed the conversation between Spark and Bias.Pretty sure this has all of them

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Terminals

[digitalErich]

Meh, all that African scene showed was that humans were around when the arc was being built...that doesn't mean the Forerunners didn't tinker with humans, genetically.

I am thinking this is how the Missing Link is explained in the Haloverse and also how some of the Spartans can almost read and understand Forerunner glyphs...genetic memory.

[Gheritt]

Meh, all that African scene showed was that humans were around when the arc was being built...that doesn't mean the Forerunners didn't tinker with humans, genetically.

I am thinking this is how the Missing Link is explained in the Haloverse and also how some of the Spartans can almost read and understand Forerunner glyphs...genetic memory.

It's really in the wording of the messages, how the librarian considers them special and if only they'd found them sooner etc

It also doesn't explain what indexing does, I'm quite sure it's a bit more complicated than what we'd imagine. Perhaps that's what makes humans "forerunner"

[Zeal]

From Terminal 2:

Recommendations:

It is my opinion that any system where there is evidence that the enemy has established a physical presence is lost and must be razed. This fleet currently retains the capacity to force premature stellar collapse; I advise that this be established as standard operating procedure for all compromised systems forthwith. We cannot fight this war by half measures if we intend to win.

This is the same weapon from Marathon that causes suns to prematurely collapse and go super nova, also known as the Early Nova.

Fuckin' awesome. So many things are coming together.

And

All evidence suggests that use of overwhelming force is the very foundation of the enemy's combat doctrine. And I adamantly refuse to deploy personnel where the enemy has available forces numbering in the billions. With the very real possibility we are becoming the last living specimens of our race, all personnel are henceforth confined to stasis until further notice. Even with everyone equipped with [C_12_CS[?]] we could have had very little chance of survival, let along victory.

Could it be that the Marathon Soldier might have been from one of these stasis pods?

[Zeal]

Also

Can't you see? Belief in the Mantle sealed our doom! Weakened our [protectorates], bred dependence and sloth. Our [so-called Guardianship] has stripped those we would keep safe of any capacity for self-defense!

It seems the task the Precursors gave the Forerunners (to be Guardians of the Galaxy) actually progressed the spread of the Flood. It indicates that the Forerunner silently discouraged races from building up their offensive capabilities.

[Zeal]

L: I've remotely destroyed our Keyships. A security measure. Without them I cannot reach the Ark. But neither then can the thing.

Ahhhh hah. So that's why the Prophet of Truth needed to land the Forerunner "Keyship" on the Ark Gateway. It 'unlocked' the portal to the Ark.

LF.Xx.3273.> Perhaps they have found {~} of making that decision for themselves? Perhaps they chose to leave it {~} impartial outsider; cast your as and arbiter during this time of great need?

MB.05-032.> I was created to study you as if you were some problem to be solved. And I have done so {~} [379,807 hours]. If they wished they could have made a decision based on that data alone.

But as you are the next stage in the evolution of the universe, who am I - or my creators - to obstruct your progress?

And here we have none other than Mendicant Bias talking with the Gravemind. As you can clearly see, Bias has sided with the Flood, calling them the "next evolution of the universe".

This story is so fascinating.

[Gheritt]

Could it be that the Marathon Soldier might have been from one of these stasis pods?

Unlikely, the marathon universe and the Halo universe aren't the same one. There are similarities and homages but they aren't the same. For more information on that you can read the Marathon timeline (http://marathon.bungie.org/story/timetable.html) and compare it to the Halo one (http://marathon.bungie.org/story/halo_backstory.html)(you've gotta scroll down a bit) and there's an easier to read one at the Halo wiki (http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline)

It's possible that the Marathon story could be totally gutted to be incorporated into the halo universe as several important events, key technology and politics are very different

For a quick reference, Marathon is a converted moon of Mars and used as a colony ship to set up the Tau Ceti colony(launched in 2472 and arrived 300 years later(ooooh) in 2773) in the Halo universe by 2492 humanity had colonized over 800 worlds and had FTL technology

I seem to remember a long time ago the creator of halo saying that the main characters in both games were the same person. This seems extremely unlikely now that the Halo universe has been fleshed out(and changed alot since it's early days)

[Durandal-217]

You also have to consider that the Marathon timeline was altered once before. It wouldn't be hard for them to alter it once again.

I know both series are connected, there are too many motifs, nudges, and references to say otherwise.

[Wokapto]

I read Ghosts of Onyx a while ago, but didn't the other Spartans and the doctor woman escape onto the Ark at the end of the book? Because if they did then the Master Chief pretty much killed them all. I could be remembering wrong though.

[Zeal]

I read Ghosts of Onyx a while ago, but didn't the other Spartans and the doctor woman escape onto the Ark at the end of the book? Because if they did then the Master Chief pretty much killed them all. I could be remembering wrong though.

how did he "kill them all"? huh...?

[Wokapto]

He fired off the ring, does that not exterminate all life within its blast range? If not then I made a severely flawed assumption at some point.

[Zeal]

He fired off the ring, does that not exterminate all life within its blast range? If not then I made a severely flawed assumption at some point.

What happened is that he fired an incomplete ring in order to destroy itself and the Ark. 343 Guilty Spark said you couldn't fire the ring until it was completed, or the thing would shake itself apart and explode.

The actual Halo network didn't fire.

EDIT: Destroying the Ark also makes no sense to me, as the terminals make it clear that all sentient life from the galaxy was 'indexed' or saved and brought to the Ark before the Halos were fired. This makes even less sense, as there's no visible life on the Ark.

I will need to study the terminals more.

[Heretic Machine]

What happened is that he fired an incomplete ring in order to destroy itself and the Ark. 343 Guilty Spark said you couldn't fire the ring until it was completed, or the thing would shake itself apart and explode.

The actual Halo network didn't fire.

EDIT: Destroying the Ark also makes no sense to me, as the terminals make it clear that all sentient life from the galaxy was 'indexed' or saved and brought to the Ark before the Halos were fired. This makes even less sense, as there's no visible life on the Ark.

I will need to study the terminals more.

Well, he is under the impression that the Spartans and Hasley escaped on the Ark. They didn't, as far as I know. Now, as for your comment about blowing up the Ark... well, I'm pretty sure it was destroyed. The reason it was never destroyed before by the Halos is that it was out of range. In this case, a Halo was fired at basically point-blank range, so it's probably gone.

As for all life being indexed, well, I think that is what the Index holds. A ton of genetic data collected from life forms around the galaxy.

[Wokapto]

I wasn't suggesting that he killed everybody in the galaxy, just the Spartans that escaped onto the ark at the end of the book. Unless they didn't and I just have a bad memory.

Edit: Ah, it appears that I am indeed mistaken. Thanks Perigon.

[Heretic Machine]

I wasn't suggesting that he killed everybody in the galaxy, just the Spartans that escaped onto the ark at the end of the book. Unless they didn't and I just have a bad memory.

Edit: Ah, it appears that I am indeed mistaken. Thanks Perigon.

Yeah, the Spartans and Hasley were inside a dyson sphere, surrounded by sentinels. It is what they call a Shield World.

[Zeal]

Well, he is under the impression that the Spartans and Hasley escaped on the Ark.

But Halsey and the Spartans never were on the Ark. They were in a slipspace dimension holding a dyson sphere, accessed through Onyx. Bungie has also stated they don't really cross reference from novels to game, however, as to not confuse the player.

Maybe I'm just misreading what you mean.

EDIT: Yeah, nevermind all that.

[Wokapto]

Thanks for clearing that up guys. I'm going to have to read that book again.

[Vandenh]

He fired off the ring, does that not exterminate all life within its blast range? If not then I made a severely flawed assumption at some point.
Yes he did and yes it will wipe out life in a serious range. From my understanding the Ark location is outside our galaxy (you can see our galaxy in the sky) and hence the blast didn't reach earth or the Covenant homeworlds. Then again it looks like the incomplete ring has a very short blast radius since MC and Arbiter survived the blast (could of course also be because they went through the warp back to earth.. well not in the case of MC, he is stuck somewhere FAR away IMHO).

The problem is that the flood shouldn't all be dead... just the ones on the ark. There should be plenty left on the Halos and Earth and there are still plenty of Brutes around. So in a way the ending was not really enough closure for me :( Since the Gravemind will just reform soon. Also the Gravemind obviously knows a lot of stuff... it seems to be a long lasting hive intelligence. A pity they didn't use it more for some good plot twists instead of using it as the evil zombie freak.

[Teh Virus]

dont know if this is said yet but how do the covenant start speaking english out of nowhere from halo 1 to halo 2?

[Zeal]

dont know if this is said yet but how do the covenant start speaking english out of nowhere from halo 1 to halo 2?

It's actually being translated through everyone's neural interface (all UNSC personnel have one). Cheap, I know, but effective.

Better explained through the novels.

[Gheritt]

You also have to consider that the Marathon timeline was altered once before. It wouldn't be hard for them to alter it once again.

I know both series are connected, there are too many motifs, nudges, and references to say otherwise.

To change the marathon timeline to make it fit with the halo one would require changing almost all the things that made it "marathon" the technology, the people, the way AIs are created etc. When the games first came out there was lots and lots of discussion about this, it was pretty much concluded that they weren't the same but Halo was more of a...remake using the same themes as in Marathon. It's not like Bungie is gonna directly tie it's most popular game series with another one that was released on a minor platform that is older than quite a few players on Xbox live

[Zeal]

I will always believe every Bungie game is connected.

Seropian created Halo and was its original vision. So if he says Chief's the Marathon soldier, I'll always accept that, even if some of the Bungie tards attempt to rewrite his original interpretation.

[Andruil]

Man..... that ending left me miffed that they killed master chief. Fortunately I had left the console on and called a friend who warned me there was more after the credits and I was just able to make it back in time :D.

[Xerxes]

For a second I was wondering if MB and 343 could be the same. Maybe dual personalities. I think the Forerunners raped humans and made them special genetically the old fashion way. Not with needles.

http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/assets/images/2006/Nov/15-Wed/Neanderthal_2D.jpg
Damn you Forerunner...

[H2o Ninja]

I found some interesting tidbits while re-reading the books. Currently on "The Flood", and found some passages that might have some bearing on the Marathon debate...

pg 208, "Wellsley, who had been busy fighting a simulation of the battle of Marathon, materialized on Cho's screen."

Is this to say that the Marathon stuff already happened? And is now considered history, an epic battle that is to be studied?

[Heretic Machine]

I will always believe every Bungie game is connected.

Seropian created Halo and was its original vision. So if he says Chief's the Marathon soldier, I'll always accept that, even if some of the Bungie tards attempt to rewrite his original interpretation.

Here is the one I don't get: Oni. How is Oni connected to the rest?

[H2o Ninja]

Here is the one I don't get: Oni. How is Oni connected to the rest?

Oni is the USNC's recon group. Maybe in name only, I never played Oni...

[Heretic Machine]

Oni is the USNC's recon group. Maybe in name only, I never played Oni...

Yeah, that is certainly a name reference, but I'm talking about continuity connections. But after wiking it, I found that it was made by a different part of Bungie called Bungie West. It was their only game.

[Gheritt]

I found some interesting tidbits while re-reading the books. Currently on "The Flood", and found some passages that might have some bearing on the Marathon debate...

pg 208, "Wellsley, who had been busy fighting a simulation of the battle of Marathon, materialized on Cho's screen."

Is this to say that the Marathon stuff already happened? And is now considered history, an epic battle that is to be studied?

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marathon)

The Battle of Marathon, Greek Μάχη τοῡ Μαραθῶνος (Mache tou Marathonos), took place in 490 BC and was the culmination of King Darius I of Persia's first full scale attempt to conquer the remainder of Greece and incorporate it into the Persian Empire, to secure the weakest portion of his western border. Most of what is known of this battle comes from Herodotus.

[digitalErich]

Yeah, that battle they were studying was the actual battle of Marathon. They were referencing real history in that part.

[downtempo]

I don't think this has been covered yet in this thread but I need to ask. I really dug the whole 'Believe' ad campaign and the big diarama thing. But those ads seem to circle around Master Chief getting captured, having a grenade in his hand and 'rallying the troops' or something. I was kinda dissapointed when none of that happened in the actual game. Anyone know how, if at all, this fits into the whole story?

[zizzy]

I don't think this has been covered yet in this thread but I need to ask. I really dug the whole 'Believe' ad campaign and the big diarama thing. But those ads seem to circle around Master Chief getting captured, having a grenade in his hand and 'rallying the troops' or something. I was kinda dissapointed when none of that happened in the actual game. Anyone know how, if at all, this fits into the whole story?

Well, here's what was posted in this week's Bungie Weekly Update (http://www.bungie.net/News/content.aspx?type=topnews&cid=12834):


Undead Jestar asks,

Q: whats up with the diorama video and the one with the children talking????
i saw none of that in campaign
False advertisement is heresy

A: How many mails did you send to Fanta complaining about the lack of hot Fantanas in your basement after drinking their delicious sodas?


That might not exactly answer your question, but it's probably the best you're going to get.

Also, the advertising campaigns were done by someone besides Bungie, and while Bungie consulted them the advertising company was only given a general idea and did the rest themselves. So it's not actually directly related.

[Gheritt]

After reading the Terminal text again Mendicant Bias says

(Upon shutdown, from Mendicant Bias--"I have found the shard that was lost. They brought it back to me. Now my reconstitution cannot be stopped.")

in Terminal 4, that terminal is the one you find after deactivating the first tower. At first I thought it was referring to high charity but that doesn't appear till terminal 6 once you shut down the last tower. Perhaps he had part of himself hidden on a ship that Offensive bias missed during their battle, or one the Covenant found and repaired.

I'm still wondering why Mendicant chose to side with the side opposing the flood this time around or what he claims he is doing to help you


Looking over some of the terminals in Marathon 2 I was amused to find

DAMSEL IN DISTRESS. Captured and
partially-disassembled human-coded AI
trapped on alien homeworld seeks succor
from a tall, dark and handsome cyborg with
big guns. Let my rescue be the basis of a
lasting relationship. MRa4451 (5/23).

[Evil Avatar]

I don't think this has been covered yet in this thread but I need to ask. I really dug the whole 'Believe' ad campaign and the big diarama thing. But those ads seem to circle around Master Chief getting captured, having a grenade in his hand and 'rallying the troops' or something. I was kinda dissapointed when none of that happened in the actual game. Anyone know how, if at all, this fits into the whole story?

Good question. What would be even cooler is for someone to take the PC version of Halo 3 and create a machinima based on the diorama. That would be bad ass.

[H2o Ninja]

After reading the Terminal text again Mendicant Bias says

(Upon shutdown, from Mendicant Bias--"I have found the shard that was lost. They brought it back to me. Now my reconstitution cannot be stopped.")

in Terminal 4, that terminal is the one you find after deactivating the first tower. At first I thought it was referring to high charity but that doesn't appear till terminal 6 once you shut down the last tower. Perhaps he had part of himself hidden on a ship that Offensive bias missed during their battle, or one the Covenant found and repaired.

I'm still wondering why Mendicant chose to side with the side opposing the flood this time around or what he claims he is doing to help you


Looking over some of the terminals in Marathon 2 I was amused to find

DAMSEL IN DISTRESS. Captured and
partially-disassembled human-coded AI
trapped on alien homeworld seeks succor
from a tall, dark and handsome cyborg with
big guns. Let my rescue be the basis of a
lasting relationship. MRa4451 (5/23).

Could that shard possibly be the same 'shard' found under Reach in the First Strike book?

[Banacek]

So, I'm guessing I should go play Marathon now? Does it hold up? Forgot to mention, Halo 3 was amazing. I can't wait till I have some real free time to go back and play though it again.

[Gheritt]

So, I'm guessing I should go play Marathon now? Does it hold up? Forgot to mention, Halo 3 was amazing. I can't wait till I have some real free time to go back and play though it again.

If you haven't already gotten it you can download it from here (http://trilogyrelease.bungie.org/) I'd suggest playing Marathon 1 and then buying the XBLA version of Marathon 2, it's fantastic and doesn't cost a whole lot. They deliberately configured the controls to play almost identically to halo and the HD graphics even though are 2D are still pretty good looking. Plot wise it will always hold up, looking back it was lightyears ahead of other games at the time and it's taken the industry years to catch up(alot of the things we take for granted now like rechargeable shields, clips instead of endless supplies of ammo, motion sensors, basic physics and dual triggers just to mention a few) were included in the game that is about 12 years old now.

If you're not into nostalgia you can read all of the terminals in order at the Marathon story page (http://marathon.bungie.org/story/) however reading them isn't really essential to understanding halo's plot, both games have similar themes and events even similarities in races but the plots and universes differ greatly. Alot of marathon fans consider Halo to be the big budget flashy remake of their beloved game and they'd be correct in alot of ways, bungie however go to great lengths to drop little things in for the longtime fans(the marathon symbol crammed in just about everywhere for example) and things like

When Durandal returned to Sol it was not with the captured Khfiva but in a Jjaro dreadnought he called Manus Celer Dei. What he learned of the Jjaro he told no one, saying only that he had stopped by to assure that Earth did not forget him. from the end screen of marathon 2

The "Forerunner" ship that came to Earth was also classified as a Dreadnought

[luffypunk]

check out my review here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=QcDbhqN_EMI). hope you like it

[IrishWhiskey]

check out my review here (http://youtube.com/watch?v=QcDbhqN_EMI). hope you like itI thought it was funny, although probably not in an intentional way. Also its not so much a review as fawning coupled with gameplay clips.

[Banacek]

If you haven't already gotten it you can download it from here (http://trilogyrelease.bungie.org/) I'd suggest playing Marathon 1 and then buying the XBLA version of Marathon 2, it's fantastic and doesn't cost a whole lot.

I'll definitely buy the XBLA version, but can you give a brief description of what those downloads are (like Infinity, Anvil, and Forge)?

[B_Money]

Oni is the USNC's recon group. Maybe in name only, I never played Oni...
I thought ONI stood for Office of Naval Intelligence.

[Gheritt]

I'll definitely buy the XBLA version, but can you give a brief description of what those downloads are (like Infinity, Anvil, and Forge)?

sorry, I'll make it more clear :)

the only marathon game released for windows was marathon 2, thankfully bungie released the source code for marathon2/infinity as well as the resources it used. Some very nice people converted those files for use with Alpeh one(the open source version of marathon)

What you're looking for would be M1A1(direct link to the zip file) (http://trilogyrelease.bungie.org/files/M1A1.zip) which stands for Marathon 1 Aleph One, this is the first game but with upgraded graphics and textures

Here is Marathon 2 (http://trilogyrelease.bungie.org/files/marathon2.zip) and the third game infinity (http://trilogyrelease.bungie.org/files/infinity.zip)

you'll also need a latest copy of Alpeh one (http://source.bungie.org/) but it should run all 3 games, I'm not on a PC so I can't check for you :)

Forge and Anvil were the modding tools they released for the mac and as far as I know won't work on windows

[Gheritt]

hmm, after watching the cutscenes from Halo2 on the legendary DVD Cortana says

I'll do what I can to slow the launch sequence, but there's something inside the ship, a presence that's fighting back. For a covenant construct it's unusually formidable

at the end of Master Chief's last segment before the forerunner ship launches

[Kielaran]

Just finished the game today and read the whole thread, here a few thoughts:

LF.Xx.3273.> Perhaps they have found {~} of making that decision for themselves? Perhaps they chose to leave it {~} impartial outsider; cast your as and arbiter during this time of great need?

MB.05-032.> I was created to study you as if you were some problem to be solved. And I have done so {~} [379,807 hours]. If they wished they could have made a decision based on that data alone.

But as you are the next stage in the evolution of the universe, who am I - or my creators - to obstruct your progress?

I get that MB is the Mendicant Bias, but why is the Gravemind designated by LF?

Second comment: (DISCLAIMER, I have not played Marathon, but do not think this has a necessity for this comment)
Bungie says that Halo and Marathon are not in the same universe. Is this a problem? I thought that the Flood were supposedly not from the Halo universe origionally also...i thought I read this in a message that was talking about what the Forerunners knew about other races. It had something to do with different levels in advanced space travel and I thought it talked about was that was interuniversal. I looked over the terminal listings and now I can't find it, so I would greatly appreciate if someone else sees it or knows where I actually saw that and could tell me and/or link to it.

[Gheritt]

Just finished the game today and read the whole thread, here a few thoughts:



I get that MB is the Mendicant Bias, but why is the Gravemind designated by LF?

Second comment: (DISCLAIMER, I have not played Marathon, but do not think this has a necessity for this comment)
Bungie says that Halo and Marathon are not in the same universe. Is this a problem? I thought that the Flood were supposedly not from the Halo universe origionally also...i thought I read this in a message that was talking about what the Forerunners knew about other races. It had something to do with different levels in advanced space travel and I thought it talked about was that was interuniversal. I looked over the terminal listings and now I can't find it, so I would greatly appreciate if someone else sees it or knows where I actually saw that and could tell me and/or link to it.

Life form perhaps. The flood are extra-galactic not(as far as we know) from outside our universe, which is a whole lot larger than a galaxy. When we talk about the "halo" and "marathon" universes we're not talking about astronomical terms, more in the way that the stories are separate from each other

[Kielaran]

Life form perhaps. The flood are extra-galactic not(as far as we know) from outside our universe, which is a whole lot larger than a galaxy. When we talk about the "halo" and "marathon" universes we're not talking about astronomical terms, more in the way that the stories are separate from each other

Right. I thought that there was something that said the Flood were from outside of this universe, alluding to alternate universes, ergo, having Halo and Marathon existing in the same greater sphere, though not in the same universe, allowing lore congruency, but coexistance (also allowing for the MC to somehow cross over to the eather realm)

[Gheritt]

Right. I thought that there was something that said the Flood were from outside of this universe, alluding to alternate universes, ergo, having Halo and Marathon existing in the same greater sphere, though not in the same universe, allowing lore congruency, but coexistance (also allowing for the MC to somehow cross over to the eather realm)

In marathon infinity you traveled between parallel "universes"(where things are the same...but different) so it's entirely possible. The problem is there really isn't much that ties the two together and there isn't really anything to gain from it. Bungie seem to be quite happy with their little references now and again

[H2o Ninja]

In marathon infinity you traveled between parallel "universes"(where things are the same...but different) so it's entirely possible. The problem is there really isn't much that ties the two together and there isn't really anything to gain from it. Bungie seem to be quite happy with their little references now and again

This could be what the Chief and Cortana have gone through at the end of Halo 3... Possibly breaking through to another universe, thanks to the Ark and their getting shorne in half...

[NSFW]

So i just finished halo 3 and i've read all the novels. I like speculating about the story though i've never played marathon or any of its sequels. I really enjoy reading everybody's input also. I never thought an xbox game would get me so involved but it has.

just a comment: if halo and marathon exist in "seperate parallel universes" that would explain why the timelines don't match but the AI construct(s) (i'm not sure if there is more than one) are in both games canon. Just a thought i haven't thought hard about, anyone care to comment?

[OUX]

So I finished Halo 3......to be honest meh. I keep hearing about the "deep" story and all. There wasn't one. It was a decent FPS story but it was a rough framework of a story glued together with tricks rather than any narrative ability. The flash from Cortana are there to garner interest without any actual leg work into what they are. Not only why she is able to send these messages are unexplained but the messages them themselves aren't even touched upon. "I'm a thief but I keep what I steal?" or something along those lines, what did she steal? Then of course they enact the "if they have a name they should get killed because it will invoke emotion" crap that is superficial and hardly worth including in the narrative. They might as well had Keyes die on a ship off somewhere else for all the good she did by intruding into the narrative. Then you have Johnson's "never let her go" death scene that literally made me spit on my floor I was so pissed. A general rule of thumb in any fiction is that "To name something is to nullify it" and while they might not have come out and said it having a freaking mime waving a neon lit sign "MC & Cortana sitting in a tree" is the same damn thing making what could have been an honest between-the-text happening cheap and trite.

What surprises me most about it is the crap about "twists and turns" in the story that people talked about before the launch.....And those were what exactly?

Chief fights the covenant off of earth, check.
Chief fights with covenant over the arc, check.
Tank level, check.
Flood shows up to generally just piss players off, check.
Truth is killed ending the covenant aggression and threat of firing halo, check.
Narrowly escape, check.
Covenant never mentioned again, check.
Chief gets Cortana back, check.
Narrowly escape again, check.
Chief destroys another Halo ring, check.
Stock driving-through-the-Flood-at-top-speed-in-a-warthog-avoiding-the-explosions-to-once-again-narrowly-escape level, check.

I have not been so disappointed in story since the last Matrix movie.

[Gheritt]

So I finished Halo 3......to be honest meh. I keep hearing about the "deep" story and all. There wasn't one. It was a decent FPS story but it was a rough framework of a story glued together with tricks rather than any narrative ability. The flash from Cortana are there to garner interest without any actual leg work into what they are. Not only why she is able to send these messages are unexplained but the messages them themselves aren't even touched upon. "I'm a thief but I keep what I steal?" or something along those lines, what did she steal? Then of course they enact the "if they have a name they should get killed because it will invoke emotion" crap that is superficial and hardly worth including in the narrative. They might as well had Keyes die on a ship off somewhere else for all the good she did by intruding into the narrative. Then you have Johnson's "never let her go" death scene that literally made me spit on my floor I was so pissed. A general rule of thumb in any fiction is that "To name something is to nullify it" and while they might not have come out and said it having a freaking mime waving a neon lit sign "MC & Cortana sitting in a tree" is the same damn thing making what could have been an honest between-the-text happening cheap and trite.

What surprises me most about it is the crap about "twists and turns" in the story that people talked about before the launch.....And those were what exactly?

Chief fights the covenant off of earth, check.
Chief fights with covenant over the arc, check.
Tank level, check.
Flood shows up to generally just piss players off, check.
Truth is killed ending the covenant aggression and threat of firing halo, check.
Narrowly escape, check.
Covenant never mentioned again, check.
Chief gets Cortana back, check.
Narrowly escape again, check.
Chief destroys another Halo ring, check.
Stock driving-through-the-Flood-at-top-speed-in-a-warthog-avoiding-the-explosions-to-once-again-narrowly-escape level, check.

I have not been so disappointed in story since the last Matrix movie.

While I can't make you like a story if you've been disappointed in it, there are a few things I can explain. Most of the little flashes of Cortana are either direct quotes or similar to things she said in the book "The Fall of Reach" so it could either be explained as memories the chief has or more likely she is using the same method of communication that the Gravemind uses to control the flood and communicate with you later in the game.

No-one can make you care about Miranda keyes or Johnson's death either, even though I was a bit shocked by both of them at the time. Even though she wasn't a particularly fleshed out character I was sad to see her go and really empathized with Sergeant Johnson, who served under and was friends with her father an he couldn't protect him in the end either.

As for the Cortana/Chief angle, most of it goes unsaid thankfully. It's not like a hollywood blockbuster where they'd shoehorn in a lovestory/interest. After playing 2 games with her guiding you I was genuinely worried about her during the "Cortana" level, I'd put money on that if rescuing her was optional most players would put in the extra effort just because they care about that character just as the Chief does. None of their "relationship" feels unnatural or forced in anyway even though it can't be anything really, he is just a soldier who they'd most likely stick in stasis until they needed him and she isn't real.

[Gheritt]

So i just finished halo 3 and i've read all the novels. I like speculating about the story though i've never played marathon or any of its sequels. I really enjoy reading everybody's input also. I never thought an xbox game would get me so involved but it has.

just a comment: if halo and marathon exist in "seperate parallel universes" that would explain why the timelines don't match but the AI construct(s) (i'm not sure if there is more than one) are in both games canon. Just a thought i haven't thought hard about, anyone care to comment?

This could be what the Chief and Cortana have gone through at the end of Halo 3... Possibly breaking through to another universe, thanks to the Ark and their getting shorne in half...

Both could be correct, however there is already enough going on in the "Halo" universe and there hasn't been any mention of inter-dimensional travel in Halo as yet.

Now what is more likely would be that the other half of the "Forward on till dawn" was dumped out on the route to Earth somewhere between it and the Ark

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5075/endingso0.jpg

I wish I could get a better picture, but that is the object seen at the end of Halo3. It's possible it could be Onyx(although I think it's hidden in slipspace someplace) and it's star that is causing the lensflare would be inside the sphere. There is no detail so it's impossible to tell if it's a planet from Marathon, it doesn't look like the Marathon it's self. So it's still a mystery

[Kielaran]

"I'm a thief but I keep what I steal?" or something along those lines, what did she steal?

I read that as the firing key for the Halo...the one that she shows you as soon as you rescue her.

[Bone]

The twist where the Flood temporarily helped MC was unexpected, actually. It made sense that the Gravemind had reasons to NOT fire all the Halos, and of course I was counting the moments until they turned on me again.

[thesilentdeath]

The twist where the Flood temporarily helped MC was unexpected, actually. It made sense that the Gravemind had reasons to NOT fire all the Halos, and of course I was counting the moments until they turned on me again.

That's exactly why I killed the flood that helped me my first time through, since I was thinking that they were going to turn on me I'd better kill them to save me some trouble later on.

[Bone]

Yea but I let them do the dirty work for awhile. They don't turn on you until you kill what's his face.

In fact a lot of places in this game, especially on Legendary, I let the friendly AI do the work whenever possible. I mentioned before that the really tough fight, I think at the beginning of the Halo level when you have to kill all the Flood to get in the installation- I just turned tail and jumped to the bottom into the snow. When I worked my way back up I found the guardians had toasted most of the Flood for me.

[Mdot23]

Yea but I let them do the dirty work for awhile. They don't turn on you until you kill what's his face.

In fact a lot of places in this game, especially on Legendary, I let the friendly AI do the work whenever possible. I mentioned before that the really tough fight, I think at the beginning of the Halo level when you have to kill all the Flood to get in the installation- I just turned tail and jumped to the bottom into the snow. When I worked my way back up I found the guardians had toasted most of the Flood for me.

Haha I bitched out and did a similar thing. I grenade jumped up the left side, avoiding the right side, the first ramp onto the structure, and the first and 2nd wave of Flood. When I got to the top where you have to wait for the door to open, I jumped to the back of the structure on this tiny ledge and waited there until I got checkpoints. I felt like a woman, but I tried to beat it the real way like 20 times.

[heyitsjohn]

The twist where the Flood temporarily helped MC was unexpected, actually. It made sense that the Gravemind had reasons to NOT fire all the Halos, and of course I was counting the moments until they turned on me again.

Ha ha, I didn't bother waiting around for inevitable betreyal, I just TKed the flood bastards and dealt with the covvies after they shot off their damned fuel rod guns. The friend I was playing with was like "What the hell are you doing, they're on our side!" And I said something snarky to the effect that Master Chief needs nobody on his team, and proceeded to beat down every walking flood form

[Banacek]

So I finished Halo 3......to be honest meh.

It seems you wanted a story where everything was spelled out for you.

[OUX]

It seems you wanted a story where everything was spelled out for you.

Not really. I wanted a story that wasn't a lazy narrative of predictable events.

[Bone]

Well then maybe you skimmed the surface but wrote off some of the deeper story? Personally I felt like there was a surface story, and a much deeper one, and which one you chose to follow was up to you (how much you wanted to listen to Cortana's messages, how much of the terminal text you read, whether you chose to read the fiction that came between the games, etc). I was pretty satisfied and I don't consider myself a philistine :)

[Banacek]

Not really. I wanted a story that wasn't a lazy narrative of predictable events.

Did you have the same complaints with HL2?

[H2o Ninja]

Both could be correct, however there is already enough going on in the "Halo" universe and there hasn't been any mention of inter-dimensional travel in Halo as yet.

Now what is more likely would be that the other half of the "Forward on till dawn" was dumped out on the route to Earth somewhere between it and the Ark

http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5075/endingso0.jpg

I wish I could get a better picture, but that is the object seen at the end of Halo3. It's possible it could be Onyx(although I think it's hidden in slipspace someplace) and it's star that is causing the lensflare would be inside the sphere. There is no detail so it's impossible to tell if it's a planet from Marathon, it doesn't look like the Marathon it's self. So it's still a mystery

Ah, but slipspace is inter-dimensional travel... So, if the Ark's portal were a form of slipspace, it's even more possible.

However, the thing that bugs me about the Ark's portal is, it was opened (and I presume left open), directly on Earth... Not in space. So why then, did the Arbiter and Chief end up in space?

[Gheritt]

Ah, but slipspace is inter-dimensional travel... So, if the Ark's portal were a form of slipspace, it's even more possible.

However, the thing that bugs me about the Ark's portal is, it was opened (and I presume left open), directly on Earth... Not in space. So why then, did the Arbiter and Chief end up in space?

Not inter-dimensional in the sense of parallel worlds, but is an extension of our own "reality"

Slipspace can be thought of as our Universe (which, technically, it is) but with a greater number of dimensions. Our plane of existence is thought to have four dimensions (up-down, front-back, side-to-side, and time)

However there are time-related anomalies when dealing with slipspace. so it'd be far more likely that if the portal malfunctioned that it'd drop them out somewhen, rather than somewhere.

The gateway on Earth was built to mass-transport humans(and perhaps other life) to the Ark. It was one of many portals, it wouldn't make sense to have them all open into the ark's atmosphere, traffic would be nuts

[Bone]

Ah, but slipspace is inter-dimensional travel... So, if the Ark's portal were a form of slipspace, it's even more possible.

However, the thing that bugs me about the Ark's portal is, it was opened (and I presume left open), directly on Earth... Not in space. So why then, did the Arbiter and Chief end up in space?
Their ship was cut in half when the portal closed while the ship was halfway through.

Arbiter ended up on Earth, and I assumed that the "memorial" was what was left of his half of the ship when it landed (from not that high up, as you said the portal was right there above the ground in Africa).

Chief though- maybe his half of the ship WAS transported somewhere else. Because as other people have said, the Halo on the Ark was detonated and should have taken him out.

[Wyrm]

Not really. I wanted a story that wasn't a lazy narrative of predictable events.

I think that the narrative was decent, but the plot itself was a little lacking. I agree with you that it played out way too predictably. I don't think I can state one "plot twist" that I wasn't really expecting. It's so fucking cliched to kill off all the characters of reasonable importance toward the end, and that pissed me off. Johnson went out with a whimper, and Miranda Keyes (who was never an interesting character in the first place) just flies straight in and dies stupidly. That whole thing seemed cobbled together, and I didn't really feel bad for a character I had always loved, simply because it was so forced. If the running joke is that Johnson always survives, why the fuck is he dead? What a terrible punchline.

Indeed, even the death of the Prophet of Truth was just the Arbiter stabbing him in a cutscene. And from what we've come to expect from Halo, I was really hoping that the Ark's activation thingy would look a lot cooler than it did.

My complaints, for the most part, are minor. I enjoyed the game, and I'm going to be playing the multiplayer for years. I guess that Halo 2 was kind of a mess in terms of story and gameplay, and looking back now, I probably shouldn't have expected that Bungie's ability to craft a compelling narrative would have somehow found its way back from the first Halo game, especially when that was never really their bag to begin with.

Playing a game like Half Life 2: Episode 2 makes me realize how great Valve is at revealing narrative through character interaction and dialog, all without cutscenes. You're never removed from the action for more than a few minutes, and when you're not fighting, details about the plot are trickling through the dialog in a way that seems more like real life, and less force fed, like the cinematics. I'm not going to say that I like it better than Halo, it just makes me wonder what a better developer could have done with such an interesting universe to draw on.

[Hellbug]

This has nothing to do with Halo 3's story. Anyone remember in Ghosts of Onyx, when Kurt swapped out the drugs in the Spartan 3's? The drugs (very powerful steroids, really), made the Spartans very resistant to damage. This is why Dante (I think that was the Spartan's name) was able to act like nothing had happened, right before he fell over dead. Those drugs, well, they had side effects. They would cause the Spartans to become more agressive and animal-like, unless they had another drug put into them.

Anyone think these new Spartans may go rogue, without these drugs? It wasn't addressed in the novel, but certainly would make for an interesting side story, or even part of the next book.

[Gheritt]

This has nothing to do with Halo 3's story. Anyone remember in Ghosts of Onyx, when Kurt swapped out the drugs in the Spartan 3's? The drugs (very powerful steroids, really), made the Spartans very resistant to damage. This is why Dante (I think that was the Spartan's name) was able to act like nothing had happened, right before he fell over dead. Those drugs, well, they had side effects. They would cause the Spartans to become more agressive and animal-like, unless they had another drug put into them.

Anyone think these new Spartans may go rogue, without these drugs? It wasn't addressed in the novel, but certainly would make for an interesting side story, or even part of the next book.

The next book is Contact Harvest (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Halo-Contact-Harvest-Joseph-Staten/dp/0765315696/ref=sr_1_11/202-7162169-8387024?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1192140928&sr=8-11) about the covenant encounter at the planet Harvest, which I think is the first battle between the Covenant and the Humans.

Ghosts of Onyx ended on a very interesting note, the drugs that the Spartan IIIs were on obviously worried Dr Halsey and was featured quite a bit in the novels. I'm sure it'll come up in future books/comics. It may be a long while before that happens though

[wyeast]

Soldiers with performance boosting drugs?

Unexpected side effects? Spartans gone rogue?

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/8452/spartanidentityql7.jpg

Inconceivable! :eek:

;)

Yeah yeah, shurrup. It was a 10 minute hack job

[Shadowstorm]

This has nothing to do with Halo 3's story. Anyone remember in Ghosts of Onyx, when Kurt swapped out the drugs in the Spartan 3's? The drugs (very powerful steroids, really), made the Spartans very resistant to damage. This is why Dante (I think that was the Spartan's name) was able to act like nothing had happened, right before he fell over dead. Those drugs, well, they had side effects. They would cause the Spartans to become more agressive and animal-like, unless they had another drug put into them.

Anyone think these new Spartans may go rogue, without these drugs? It wasn't addressed in the novel, but certainly would make for an interesting side story, or even part of the next book.

The Spartan III's do not go rogue by simply taking these drugs. Over time, these drugs suppress the ability to think rationally about a tactical situation.

I think.

[Rock Bandit]

Soldiers with performance boosting drugs?

Unexpected side effects? Spartans gone rogue?

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/8452/spartanidentityql7.jpg

Inconceivable! :eek:

;)

Yeah yeah, shurrup. It was a 10 minute hack job

Hey, that's a pic of my Scout on Snowbound! I want my royalty check. ;)

[Squidbot]

Inconceivable! :eek:

;)



http://www.thebigpicturedvd.com/DVD%20ART/princess_bride1.jpg

[Gheritt]

uuhhh, right


Well for an on-topic image

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7250/15ytbitqc0.jpg

Too close to the Ark be a burned out sun, too mechanical looking to be a real planet. Another Onyx perhaps ?

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7976/1zmi2vdae7.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/525/2i8f2c0lt1.jpg

All images stolen from various screenshot threads

[Wyrm]

uuhhh, right


Well for an on-topic image

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7250/15ytbitqc0.jpg

Too close to the Ark be a burned out sun, too mechanical looking to be a real planet. Another Onyx perhaps ?

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7976/1zmi2vdae7.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/525/2i8f2c0lt1.jpg

All images stolen from various screenshot threads

If I'm correct in my assumption, I'm guessing that the object in the center is either some sort of power source for the Ark, or it's the machine that creates new Halos in order to replace those that are lost. Could be that it's a shield world, but that doesn't seem likely. The Ark itself is a sort of protected structure, at least in theory, as it's well outside the galaxy and is well outside the ranged of the rings.

And I'm curious, where did those screens come from in the game? I never saw any pictures of the whole ark that were so clear like that while I was playing.

[Gheritt]

If I'm correct in my assumption, I'm guessing that the object in the center is either some sort of power source for the Ark, or it's the machine that creates new Halos in order to replace those that are lost. Could be that it's a shield world, but that doesn't seem likely. The Ark itself is a sort of protected structure, at least in theory, as it's well outside the galaxy and is well outside the ranged of the rings.

And I'm curious, where did those screens come from in the game? I never saw any pictures of the whole ark that were so clear like that while I was playing.

I saw them in a screenshot thread I think they come from cut-scenes or from the backdrops in the actual game. It's possible it is simply raw material that is used to create the new Halos. Power source seems unlikely as the Ark doesn't seem to do much(unlike halo which is quite compact and can wipe out all life in a very large area) Remember that the gateway to Onyx was destroyed, it's unlikely that they'd need to construct a new dyson sphere(which would have the circumference of roughly Earth's orbit around our star) but a way to get there.

[Zeal]

ok what i think is going on here is the globe in the middle is a shield world in the process of construction, just as another halo was being constructed to replace installation 04. essentially the ark archives life and simultaneously functions as a gigantic factory.