Jack Thompson brands ESA "criminal"

[Varsity]

VE3D (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/633/633763p1.html) has the full text. ‘Crusader’, as GameSpot calls him, attorney Jack Thompson has written an open letter to a long list of Entertainment Software Association members, comprising developers and publishers. In it, he (in this order) lists his credentials and those of co-campaigner Hillary Clinton, criticises the actions or lack thereof of George Bush, and then for the remaining half of the letter launches a personal attack on ESA president Doug Lowenstein, interjected with scoldings for keeping him and demands to find a replacement.

When Hitler invaded Russia, opening up an Eastern offensive on the eve of winter, Britain’s Prime Minister Winston Churchill noted that “Hitler must have been rather loosely educated, not having learned the lesson of Napoleon’s autumn advance on Moscow…Your Doug Lowenstein is similarly “loosely educated” about the United States Constitution.”Be sure to read the whole letter (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/633/633763p1.html) before making any judgements.

All I’ll say is remember: just because someone is acting like a prick, doesn’t mean everything they say is automatically wrong.

[Evil Avatar]

I think the second you compare someone to Hitler, you have pretty much lost your audience.

[Varsity]

Uh, OK. I guess it was quite lengthy. Here's the original post though, I want to keep it up:

VE3D (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/633/633763p1.html) has the full text. 'Crusader', as GameSpot calls him, attorney Jack Thompson has written an open letter to a long list of Entertainment Software Association members, compromising developers and publishers. In it, he (in this order) lists his credentials and those of co-campaigner Hillary Clinton, criticises the actions or lack thereof of George Bush, and then for the remaining half of the letter launches a personal attack on ESA president Doug Lowenstein, interjected with scoldings for keeping him and demands to find a replacement.

Dear ESA Members:

Today, United States Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, with initiatives she will announce at a 10 am news conference in our nation's capital, is acting decisively in furtherance of what for her has been a strong leadership role on these issues since Columbine—a tragedy caused in part by the violent video game industry. Millions of American parents should be thankful to the Senator for striking back against what can be fairly called "Grand Theft Innocence" at the expense of our children by only some within your industry.
The letter makes disturbing reading at some points: Thompson accuses the Bush administration's handling of the industry of 'training terrorists' and accuses Lowenstein of going on 'ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) jihads intended to obscure real concerns about real industry abuses' (which, you might argue, is exactly what Thompson is doing by saying so).

Lowenstein has done this time and time again, alienating lawmakers and turning off media with his "You're a fool, and I'm a genius" mindset. With friends like Lowenstein, your industry doesn't need any enemies. But he winds up growing them like topsy.
He also juxtaposes Lowenstein with Hitler:

When Hitler invaded Russia, opening up an Eastern offensive on the eve of winter, Britain's Prime Minister Winston Churchill noted that "Hitler must have been rather loosely educated, not having learned the lesson of Napoleon's autumn advance on Moscow…Your Doug Lowenstein is similarly "loosely educated" about the United States Constitution."
The message ends with a personal warning and telling off/insult to the ESA members:

If you want your fledgling industry destroyed for all of you, keep Doug Lowenstein right where he is. Events, like Columbine to the factor of ten, will take care of that. You won't be able to blame Senator Rodham Clinton. She is trying to prevent that calamity.

But if you want to be a partner with America's parents by together taking our children out of harm's way, then look for an ESA president who has the common decency to recognize the truth, speak it, and then act upon it.
It's your choice. You've made some pretty bad choices to date. Make a good one for a change.

Dump Doug.
These quotes are of course the edited highlights: be sure to read the whole letter (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/633/633763p1.html) before making any judgements.

All I'll say is remember: just because someone is acting like a prick, doesn't mean everything they say is automatically wrong.

[steve]

All I'll say is remember: just because someone is acting like a prick, doesn?t mean everything they say is automatically wrong.

Well, if someone is acting like a prick and making hysteric exaggerated statements like he does, I cannot take him seriously. I really can't grasp how a MOD could be made into a skandal that large. Unbelievable.

[Akeldama]

Thompson is a bit of a joke, continuing with that nonsense about Doom being used to train killers and when he starts talking about Hitler and using his faith to give him the moral high-ground I'm appalled (and I'm a Christian).

But I do think he's right about the immaturity of the games industry. In the UK it's less of an issue. ELSPA has done a great job of lobbying government and there seems to be the understanding in those of power that games exist for different ages. We also have games legally rated 18, but which are still sold in most stores because they tend not to take some moral stance on such matters.

It's ironic that the Hot Coffee scandal has gone so far, the content unlocked is tamer than most of the regular things that happen in the game. But the US does get uppity about sex at times, just look at the storm in a teacup over the Janet Jackson nipple slip.

Rockstar isn't helping either, it churns out a diet of extreme violence. Bully and The Warriors (the latter I saw a presentation of earlier this week) are going to continue this. I do worry that Rockstar is giving the industry a bad name and unfarely, as most games do not feature any violence.

[RichardTowler]

why can't they go back to blaming rock music?

[T-Dawg]

To quote the Daily Show:

When you compare someone to Hitler, you're insulting Hitler.

[balamoor]

This will have about the same impact overall as Chick publications, and Mike Warnkie novellas had on D&D, and Rock Music. Personally I ignore the ESRB If my Daughter wants a Game or wants to watch a particular movie I preview it with my wife and we make a decision from there, it's called parenting.

[steve]

why can't they go back to blaming rock music?

*laugh* Hehe - yeah - Marilyn Manson prob works as a freelance advisor for Rockstar Games! Blame them all!

Rockstar isn't helping either, it churns out a diet of extreme violence. [...] I do worry that Rockstar is giving the industry a bad name and unfarely, as most games do not feature any violence.

Yes, Rockstar does indeed a good job at getting their "reputation". Anyway, people should be smart enough to differentiate between various developers. Saying they give video games a "bad name" is kinda like saying "porn is giving film making a bad name". Well - that's of course exaggerated, and I can see your point, but anyway... People should learn like in any media you have products for every niche.

Anyway, I have to give Rockstar some kudos for being so stubborn. IMO they just do all this crap for publicity, and taking the risk of backfiring does take some guts.

[Taco]

doesn’t mean everything they say is automatically wrong*.








*Statement null and void if subject's name is Jack Thompson

[Draft]

All I’ll say is remember: just because someone is acting like a prick, doesn’t mean everything they say is automatically wrong.You can be a real tool. This asshole Godwin's his own open letter, and then starts bringing up shit like Columbine? BECAUSE A GAME HAS SOME VIRTUAL FUCKING?

Hey, Civilization, please, GET A GRIP.

[Taco]

Yeah, I read the letter. Seems like the same old horseshit to me. He'll spend his whole life creating controvery out of nothing waiting for that one big pay day.

[darkwarrior]

What an arrogant prick.

No, it wasn't the parents fault their daughters were gunned down but it wasn't DOOMs fault he did it. Lots of youngsters play video games but they don't train you to aim a freaking rifle and compare demonic bodies to human beings. The kid was fucked up and his parents let him have access to weaponry.

Games don't kill people, people kill people. I forgot the part where we have free will and choice. Jack the Ripper wasn't exactly a people person either. Guess he trained to kill on tic-tac-toe.

[AversionFX]

Ohgawd, Jack Thompson. It blows my mind how people will so rabidly attack everything other than the source of the problem. Everytime something like this gets brought up, the same solutions are agreed upon here.

Be better parents. Review what your kids do. I mean, suggesting that kids have no access to violent video games is a bit of an overstep. But if your kid has violent tendencies, I don't think giving him a copy of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas is a good idea. In this day and age, it's just so common for parents to have "more important things to do," like let the TV raise their kids.

For once, I would love it if an actual gamer got his/her own say (without being editted/censored), because all of this is so lopsided.

--VIDEO GAMES ARE BAD! WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY FOR YOURSELF?

"Well--"

--HERESY! YOUR PRODUCTS TRAIN KIDS TO KILL. COLUMBINECOLUMBINE!!!!RA!RA!RA!

It's neverending.

[Valchael]

Mr. Thompson may have some valid points, but he says nothing to really substantiate them.
Millions of American parents should be thankful to the Senator for striking back against what can be fairly called "Grand Theft Innocence" at the expense of our children by only some within your industry.I don't understand this sentence, nor what he means by "Grand Theft Innocence". I know he's trying to allude to something about grandtheft auto, but what? Is it stealing the innocence of children? Is it Rockstar claiming their innocence? Looking at it I think he means the latter, taking the childrens innocence. As the letter is often hard to decipher like that I shall not say anything about that difficulty except that he should get someone to help him write letters. "I think it's because he's a lawyer. Ever tried reading legel documents? They're written like that so lawyers have jobs.)

Anyway children aren't all that innocent to beging with. They can be pretty vicious without the help of video games. There are movies, books, and of course news sources that speak of violence akin to that in video games.
It has been my privilege, as a lifelong Republican, to provide facts—not feelings--about the reckless practices of certain members of this industry, some of which are Members of the ESA, in the midst of responsible fact-gathering by Senator Rodham Clinton's staff.Soo.. Only republicans can give facts? Do they not have feelings? George Bush simply said "Parents just have to be better parents." I agree with Bush on something... wow(context-link real violence and videogame violence)"Hot Coffee" mod scandalI find it silly that a sex mod constitutes more of a scandal than the violence itself in this case. I mean when you have a child, you'd realisticly expect your child to have sex one day. But I doubt that you'd expect your child to go kill people. Sex is rated worse than killing people though.No opponent could possibly be acting upon principle, in the world according to Doug Lowenstein. Only he is the oracle of truth. All others are scum. It is his way.I think the same might be said about Jack Thompson maybe. Take this letter for example.His approach, as the President of your Entertainment Software Association, is to demonize critics and to engage in ad hominem jihads intended to obscure real concerns about real industry abuses. All this does is deepen the resolve of your critics to act. I know. Jack Thompson labaling Doug Lowenstein a terrorist with the word "Jihad" in his jihad against videogames.

Mr. Thompson then seperates video games from movies by refering to MPAA Pres. Jack Valenti. A rather subtle differentiation, but supporting Mr. Valenti is about the same as supporting movies in general even if he might not like specific films. But, it's also hypocritical as I have seen films with more sex than GTA with only an R rating. For example; Eyes Wide Shut.
When Hitler invaded Russia, opening up an Eastern offensive on the eve of winter, Britain's Prime Minister Winston Churchill noted that "Hitler must have been rather loosely educated, not having learned the lesson of Napoleon's autumn advance on Moscow ."

Your Doug Lowenstein is similarly "loosely educated" about the United States Constitution. I have never, in my eighteen years of public interest law practice against the excesses of the entertainment industry, run into an individual more devoid of even an elementary understanding of the meaning and scope of the First Amendment. Even Howard Stern's lawyers look like Alexander Hamilton compared to Lowenstein. Compairing the President of the ESA to Hitler. Ment to make an emotional point and and explain the depth of Mr. Lowenstein's uneducated-ness due to the stupidity of invading Russia in Winter. But Mr. Thompson doesn't really explain what Mr. Lowenstein Doesn't know about the first amendment. Though it could be assumed he's saying that videogames aren't covered in the first amendment. It would be nice if he said why that was so, wouldn't it?Doug Lowenstein embarrasses each and every one of you when he holds forth about what the "Founders" intended when they drafted the Bill of Rights. For Doug, the Founders are GTA's Tommy Vercetti and Carl Johnson. Doug never met a pixilated prostitute he didn't like, and I'm sure James Madison would be impressed.Oh, because "For Doug, the Founders are GTA's Tommy Vercetti and Carl Johnson." And he likes pixulated prostitutes.When well-intended citizens and legislators have tried to get your industry to adhere to the logic of the "M for mature" ratings label,...Fine, treat them like R rated movies and don't give them to kids in stores. Have their parents buy them for them if they think their child is mature enough to differentiate reality from fantasy, and can handle the graphic elements. ...Lowenstein has flown into a fury, claiming children have a constitutional right to consume pornography and violence.But if you're going to say things like this, back it up in the same letter, because I for one would not belive some one would say that. How do I say this? It's a constitutional right to make it, to sell it, and to "consume" it for everyone. Censorship for anyone including children should not be decided by the government. It should start and end with parents for their own children. If those of you who understand that any technology can be used for either good or for ill and that "responsibility" is something that adults are supposed to exercise in all walks of life, even in the entertainment industry, then get rid of this highly-paid thug and replace him with someone with sense.MAIN POINT OF ENTIRE LETTER. I honesty have no clue about Mr. Lowenstein's performance in his job. I don't care. I can buy video games, porn, cigerettes, see R rated movies and join the army and kill people. But with my own discretion and not government regulations would I choose not to give children all of that. I think that's what Mr. Thompson doesn't like. That people could use their own descretion for their children and not his. So he uses insults and emotions to convince people of his opinions. He could have said "Mr. Lowenstein has been negligent in his duties as head of the ESA." And then list the reasons. But he didn't and doesn't in everything I read from him.

Stupidity makes me angry, if you think anything I said was stupid tell me, and I'll think about changing my opinion. Maybe.

[Varsity]

You can be a real tool. This asshole Godwin's his own open letter, and then starts bringing up shit like Columbine? BECAUSE A GAME HAS SOME VIRTUAL FUCKING? He does have, somewhere underneath the bile, a point. If you can't see or understand it, that's perfectly OK.

[Taco]

His point is "The game industry is evil, everyone believe me so I can make an ASSLOAD of money suing various publishers!!"

[i aint yer pa]

I think the second you compare someone to Hitler, you have pretty much lost your audience.I like to think of that as the political equivalent of Jumping the Shark.

[Taco]

Yeah, but don't you need to be good prior to Jumping the Shark?

[Draft]

He does have, somewhere underneath the bile, a point. If you can't see or understand it, that's perfectly OK.Awww, a wittle passive aggressive condescension. His point, whatever the fuck you think it may be, is lost in a sea of putrescent babbling that should insult the ears of any reasonably intelligent individual.

[Varsity]

Well, that's your stance summed up in a sentence.

[Taco]

You have yet to define yours. Other than believing in this so called "point" myth.

[phreakonaleash]

In my opinion, Thompson manages to cover up whatever relevant points he has in all the fire-and-brimstone... To be honest, he's just as "bad" as he claims videogame companies to be. His career spans "eighteen years of public interest law practice against the excesses of the entertainment industry" - How is a litigious maniac like this a "well intended... legislator"? Every few months we hear him sounding his trumpet about how some game makes people eat their own children.

Sure, the argument has been sent back and forth many many times, how videogames are really no different from any other entertainment media in turning us all into brutal savages, how people would still kill other people even if there was a total ban on all videogames (even stuff like Barbie goes to Wussland). Hell, I play GTA all the time, and it's been.. ooooh... at least a week since I picked up a hooker, had my way with her and then beat her to death with a hammer.

My point is this... Whenever Jack Thompson starts raining down judgement on videogames, whatever point he may be trying to put across is buried deep within a mountain of pure crap and name-calling. Maybe it's just too subtle for me, but I personally think he's a total tool.

Oh, and putting anyone as a parallel with Hitler is beyond reproach. Disgusting.

[Varsity]

You have yet to define yours. Other than believing in this so called "point" myth.
I do not believe that overtly violent games which, regardless of their intentions, appeal to children and attempt to portray a realistic world should be widely avalialble. They aren't going to make blood crazed monsters out of people, but they will worsen any existing tendencies in the wrong situations.
Doom 3: doesn't especially appeal, not realistic, very violent
Half-Life 2: never overtly violent and realistic at the same time (Ravenholm vs. the rest of the game), doesn't particuarly appeal to kids
UT2004: not believable at all, visually appeals (colourful, bold and simple) but too hard online, violent
Manhunt/GTA3+: believable, very violent, and appeals to kids through cool factor, culture and simplicity.
I'm beginning to wonder if this upset isn't going to force developers to grow up, and start making more sensible and mature games (no, not that sort of mature). The gaming world has long needed more Hostile Waters and Darwinias.

[Kelegacy]

To quote the Daily Show:

When you compare someone to Hitler, you're insulting Hitler.

Ha, I remember that one. So true. If i was a fear-mongering murderer that fried millions of people in massive ovens, I wouldnt want someone comparing a guy like George Bush to me. I'd steal some of my mojo.

[phreakonaleash]

Varsity, you say that in the wrong situations, violent games will put strain on existing tendencies or issues the player has... Surely the same could be said for films? If parents don't pay enough attention to their kids to realise what games they're playing, then what about films their children are watching? What if a kid gets a hold of Ichi the Killer?

By the same argument that would mean kids with aggressive tendencies and find it difficult to separate life from what they see on the screen - what's to stop said kid going out with a knife taped to the back of his shoe and axe-kicking people to death? Yet film ratings are becoming more lenient! Films such as Ichi the Killer would never have been released 10 years ago, yet I have my copy on DVD now... I'm not saying that these films (or games) for that matter should be banned. I'm all for game regulation, but what I really want is for all entertainment media to at least be put on a (fairly) even keel.

[Goronmon]

Godwin's Law at its finest.

George Bush simply said "Parents just have to be better parents." He should trying telling that to my clients in Paducah whose three daughters were gunned down by 14-year-old video gamer Michael Carneal, who trained on Doom to become a more efficient killer. What did they, as parents, Mr. President, do wrong? Was sending their kids to school their mistake?
Seriously, has anyone ever use logic anymore? Being better parents relates to the parents of the assailant, not the victim. What kind of ****ing dick twists something like the murder of three girls just to further their own political goals?

And you want to know what the point of the article is?

Its that Hilary Clinton is calling for these extreme measures be taken against the horrible cesspool that is the gaming industry. Of course, if none of this really makes a difference (prolly won't), then all the better for her. Chances are, there will be another act of violence that occurs in the next few years. And of course, there will somehow be a connection between the assailants and some violent video game. Being the brilliant and clear-thinking person she is, Hilary had already called for changes in the industry, but alas, she was ignored and the "now look whats happening" stuff can be thrown around.

So there you have it. The point of all this is so that Hilary can further her own political career.

P.S. How does that saying going? No one ever vehemently defends/proclaims something they truly believe in, and their strong feelings on the subject are directly related to the fact that they are unsure about the side they stand on?

[Evil Avatar]

I'm beginning to wonder if this upset isn't going to force developers to grow up, and start making more sensible and mature games (no, not that sort of mature).

Grow up??? You mean the way Hollywood and the Porn Industry has grown up?

Adult products are designed for adults. Adult R Rated movies are made for adults, adult porn is made for adults and adult games with mature themes are made for adults.

I want to play GTA: SA and Manhunt, those were both great games (Well, Manhunt was "good".). Developers don't need to change anything, except that they should be taking a more agressive PR & legal stance and putting shitheads like Thompson in their place both with really damaging PR statements against him and counter lawsuits to keep him so tied up in court all the time so that he doesn't have time to write moronic letters to the ESA.

[Goronmon]

I'm beginning to wonder if this upset isn't going to force developers to grow up, and start making more sensible and mature games (no, not that sort of mature). The gaming world has long needed more Hostile Waters and Darwinias.
Why should game developers be prevented from making sexual explicit and violent games when movies are allowed to go even farther even today?

Stopping developers from making the games isn't going to change a god damn thing about the way children develop and the amount of violence in the world today IMO.

[Ernst_Jager]

Really the GTA series is shit. The first 2 in the series totally sucked. The 3rd was mediocre at best. I haven't played SA so I can not comment. The series claim to fame is it's violence.
Really though do we really need games like this? How about more games like Narc where doing drugs is part of the game. Maybe we can have a serial killer game where you go into McDonalds and randomly kill people. How about suicide bomber games. I believe Rockstar only cares about pushing buttons to make money. They would make a game about rape if it made a buzz and they could make money.
I am not a Christian and I hate censorship, but really where do we draw this line between something acceptable and what is not. I think the GTA series should be 18+ only. If they want to make it they have the right, but don't make something so easy obtainable by minors. If publishers like Rockstar can't be accountable for themselves someone has to be. As much as I dislike Hillary and Thompson in this case I believe they aren't totally off base.

[RichardTowler]

if I said, I stole a car today, and I play GTA

Politician: Oh no, young youth turned to the darkside by an evil video game that taught him how to steal cars, and that its cool to do so!

Normal Person: what a dumbfuk!

Most people know the difference between a video game and reality, games are cool because they are not real, its great stealing cars in GTA, its fun, its fun kicking someone out there car, why? because its not real, no one is getting hurt, its funny because of that, they are just models in a game.

But if I saw something like the above in real life, I'd be shocked, horrified you name it, and i would be appauled by it.

you cannot blame game developers for the actions of other people, people that turn virtual into reality and go to schools and open fire need help, way before it gets to that stage, there's way more to do it than just 'he played a video game' and therefore that is to blame but video games are the easiest thing to blame, was just like 'rock' music, and 'movies' in the past.

People have killed people way before video games, people have known about sex way before video games, I just don't see what, more so, america has this huge hang up about sex, should be the Bible by 18+ only?

ok pointless mini rant over

[Evil Avatar]

I think the GTA series should be 18+ only.

It already is. My copy says,

MATURE 17+
Blood & Gore
Intense Violence
Strong Language
Strong Sexual Content
Use of Drugs

Seems like they are already telling you what is in the package when you buy it.

If they want to make it they have the right, but don't make something so easy obtainable by minors.

Help me out here, Retailers. Don't retail stores already have a policy that they don't sell Mature rated games to minors? They checked my ID the last time I purchased a title at Gamestop.

This is the part that people like Thompson just ignore... these products are already correctly labeled as Mature 17+ products and retailers are (as far as I know) already enforcing it.

[Varsity]

mature themes
What do you mean by mature themes? Themes that are suitable for adults, or that appeal to adults? As GTA shows, it is entirely possible to have a game that is suitable for adults but appeals strongly to kids and their culture.

Why should game developers be prevented from making sexual explicit and violent games when movies are allowed to go even farther even today?Because as I am trying hard to explain, when not treated sensibly they are popular with people not always old enough to cope with them.

Don't retail stores already have a policy that they don't sell Mature rated games to minors?And the whole point of this uprorar is (as far as I care, at least) to make sure it is followed.

[Goronmon]

And the whole point of this uprorar is (as far as I care, at least) to make sure it is followed.
The point of this uproar is the furthering the political agendas. The issue from which this uproar is based is that kids are gaining access to adult media.

[PacerDawn]

The problem is, the older generation doesn't understand what Video Games have become. They think video game = for the kiddies. They do not understand that video games are also played by MANY adults and manufacturers are creating games just for adults. To them, all video games are for kids. It needs to be explained to them that video games are like movies, you have some for the kids, and some not for the kids, but until they understand this, you are going to get this kind of backlash.

Also, Rockstar is entirely to blame for this. And, if you read their response, nowhere do they deny that this stuff was already in the game (which it was, unless somehow modders can deliver new graphics and voice-overs in a less than a 2mb patch). They simply say that "hackers" (those evil hackers) altered the source code, but they do not say in what way, so that could mean he just changed a few lines to activate the hidden minigame.

Easter egg, or incredibly brilliant PR? You be the judge.

[Eon]

The idea that San Andreas has as much questionable content as an 18+ movie is laughable. The language is maybe strong, but the violence itself is far less bloody and disturbing than, say, any of the eighties slash flicks that are rated the same way.

If the problem is with unscrupulous retailers selling a game to minors, then attack the fucking retailers already - because it seems every time a game is tenuously roped into some event this asshat comes out attacking Rockstar. Where is the logic?

In other news, congratulations to Senator Clinton on already solving the Energy Crisis, the War in Iraq, the Trade Deficit, the Welfare Crisis, the War on Drugs and the London Bombings. At least I'm assuming that they're solved if she has time to spend on THIS.

[Lodin]

Here's a nice quote from the guy. go buy a suicide simulation game, and get hooked on thatMan, what a class act.

[Racknahm]

Goddammit. Can he stop saying that videogames train killers? Clicking a mouse is not the same as firing a gun. Could someone refresh me on how Doom taught them how to create bombs or how to load and fire a submachine gun?

[Mrbunchypants]

Seeing as how Jack seems not ot know how things get done, it's no supriseing that he has done this.

As most of us gamers know, This is a huge market. By that I mean makes more money than some of the others markets that are older. With this money they can influence the goverment. Just like home Micky d's did with the hamber bill. It's only a matter of time befor theres a law that said you can't sue cuz some doormat at (insert loc retailor here) sold there child an M rated game.

[sickfallout]

Honestly, I'm fucking speechless. Reading that article made me even more ashamed of my country and my species, if we can churn out an opportunist fuckbag like Jackson. I could probably allude to Hitler and Columbine on any subject, but I don't. Know why?

It's called decency, look it up fuckface.

[PantherModern]

Man, I play Counterstrike a lot, and I am now thinking of becoming a Terrorist. They are always so easily bested by the superior technology of the Counter-Terrorist forces that, because of the game, I feel that I need to give them a real hand out here in the real world. I have been known to get upwards of 8 kills in a single round, so I bet I will be invaluable to them. My aim is so precise with my MX518 gaming mouse! I usually use the CV-47 too, and we all know that it's just a good ol' terrorist-style AK. I do tend to get gung-ho though, and so I die alot--going down in a blaze of glory and taking as many damn peace-loving CT's with me as I can. Fortunately CS has taught me that it's ok. I'll just respawn with my good terrorist buddies and go at it again.

[ÜberJumper]

This topic needs a reasoned debate broadcast to the world so people will finally clue in not be sucked in by this type of propaganda.

Video games, the new communist jews.

(If you don't get my comment on communists and jews, go back and have a lookie loo at depression era Germany)

[Dirty Harry]

To quote the Daily Show:

When you compare someone to Hitler, you're insulting Hitler.
this made me laugh.

[carneconcarne]

First, I think there should be legislation regulating the already existing ratings systems. Stores shouldn't be allowed to sell 17+ games to minors. This media can be harmful, there is no doubt about that. The level of simulation in games is getting pretty believable, and there are definitely games out there I wouldn't want any 10 year old playing.

However, I think the source of the scandal, two blocky, vaguely-human things rubbing together, is ridiculous. I mean, this is hardly even sex, and there is extreme violence going on in the same damn game that no one is batting an eye about.

[51|RandoM]

I think in the original post, you probably meant to use "comprising", not "compromising".

[Rommel]

All I’ll say is remember: just because someone is acting like a prick, doesn’t mean everything they say is automatically wrong.

Actually it does. We live in a civilized society where there are rules. One of which being that you must have some degree of class to be able to present any manner of idea or opinion. Another of which being that if you are careful in Alpha Centauri you can use nuclear weapons to no consequence. Actually, to my knowledge those are the only two rules I know of.

[Kagger]

First, I think there should be legislation regulating the already existing ratings systems. Stores shouldn't be allowed to sell 17+ games to minors. This media can be harmful, there is no doubt about that. The level of simulation in games is getting pretty believable, and there are definitely games out there I wouldn't want any 10 year old playing.


A 17 Year old is still a Minor, but they should still be able to play M Rated games the same way a 17 year old can see R Rated movies. This talk of banning minors drives me nuts, because the game is made for 17+ when a 17 year old is still a minor


But I agree...the ultra violent games need to be kept out of kids hands. I had SOCOM II when I was 14 (around 1 month 7 days to being 15), and I didn't kill anyone. It depends on the game and on the person. (I can't get all M Rated games)

[m0nk3yb0y]

What do you mean by mature themes? Themes that are suitable for adults, or that appeal to adults? As GTA shows, it is entirely possible to have a game that is suitable for adults but appeals strongly to kids and their culture.

Last time I checked, most children and teenagers are attracted to almost everything that they're not supposed to have access to. It's the parents’ responsibility to monitor their child and decide what they can handle. This idea that it is violent video games' fault for the downfall of American youth in asinine. I've had access to violent games since Mortal Kombat came out in the Arcade, and I've never even been in a fight of any kind. If anything, I'm too damned passive.
Parents are getting more and more irresponsible with their children these days. They want to be able to have everything but themselves take care of their children because they are too busy for it.

[Draft]

Well, that's your stance summed up in a sentence.Shakespeare said that brevity is the soul of wit. Then he wrote plays full of violence and sex that became literary masterpieces.

[Voodoo]

Modern Senators & Congress Members...
http://www.mizelcenter.org/FilmFest05/GreatDictator.jpg

[mister_slim]

I think today's extra (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/1/19) from The Escapist provides a nice context.

[Heretic Machine]

This media can be harmful, there is no doubt about that.

Umm... yes, there is doubt. A lot of doubt, since there has been no proof, or even a legitimate claim with something to back it up saying that it is harmful.