Metroid Prime 3 outsells Bioshock

[Phanto]

Proving that "hardcore" games can still sell on Wii, Metroid takes the top spot in US all-format chart. Nintendo's flagship shooter Metroid Prime 3: Corruption has debuted in the States with a bang, taking the top sales spot in the all-format chart and even outselling 2K's awesome Bioshock in its first week.

Metroid managed to shift over 400,000 copies in total, which must be big news for developers ogling at Nintendo's console and proves that traditional "hardcore" games can still sell on the home of Wii Sports and Cooking Mama.

With Wii releases thin on the ground, Metroid's unlikely to be contested at the top of the Wii sales chart until Super Mario Galaxy rolls around in a few months time. Wii Play meanwhile, is still sitting at the top of the charts in all three main territories.

Corruption hits UK shores in October and for those who can't wait (besides pulling out the import Wii) you can read our initial impressions with movies right here. It's wicked.

Source: Computer and Video Games (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=171307)

[mulligan]

:) ........

[TheFlyingOrc]

Even as a Nintendo fan, I don't see how this is indicative that 3rd parties can sell hardcore games well on the Wii.

[Wyrm]

I still need to go buy this one.

[LikeTheRazor]

Even as a Nintendo fan, I don't see how this is indicative that 3rd parties can sell hardcore games well on the Wii.
They can only sell them if they're good.

[TheFlyingOrc]

The best thing about Metroid Prime is that it should make future Wii FPS control better.

[KingGorilla]

Sadly, we may never truly know the number of copies that Bioshock sold. It did crash Steam though, and that is a feat.

[Telefrog]

Or it could be that Wii owners, are y'know, starving for content.

[pseudopseudo]

Wii Play meanwhile, is still sitting at the top of the charts in all three main territories.
Does anyone else find this horribly depressing?

I mean I bought it, but immediately would've regretted it, had it not come with a Wii-mote. It's so bad...

[Vermy81]

I wonder where they're getting those stats because VGchartz has some very different numbers that show Bioshock in its first week moving upwards of 400k units and Metroid only reaching somewhere in the 300 range. I'm not saying I don't believe its selling well but It's curious the discrepancy in numbers. Also Bioshock is a multiplatform game and those steam & Direct 2 drives sales won't ever be tracked at all by the NPD group so it'll be out of the discussion.

I don't think there is anyone who doubted that hardcore nintendo games could sell like crazy on the Wii. What would be interesting to see would be if a game that's a 3rd party new IP and focused on the hardcore gamer could sell.

[Exodus]

Who didn't see this coming?

[Mdot23]

I wonder where they're getting those stats because VGchartz has some very different numbers that show Bioshock in its first week moving upwards of 400k units and Metroid only reaching somewhere in the 300 range. I'm not saying I don't believe its selling well but It's curious the discrepancy in numbers.

I'll wait for the NPD. Seemed like everyone was (and still is) talking about BioShock. I don't doubt Metroid selling alot, but I'm a little skeptical.

[Syl]

Yeah; due to bioshock having 5 different SKU's over multiple platforms, i can imagine it being hard to track. (360, 360 LE, PC, PC LE and Steam)

[Skyelan]

Does anyone else find this horribly depressing?

No.

Newsflash: Shitty games have dominated sales charts since the beggining of gaming. If you're in the top ten, you're either crappy to mediocre (And often liscensed), or you're a megaton, megapress game. Disney games are especially notorious for topping charts.

Of course, I also think people are full of shit with how apparantly bad WiiPlay is, because for ten bucks I get my money out of it every time I have someone else to play with, but to each his own...

[automaton]

Or it could be that Wii owners, are y'know, starving for content.

As are trolls obviously...

[LikeTheRazor]

Does anyone else find this horribly depressing?

I mean I bought it, but immediately would've regretted it, had it not come with a Wii-mote. It's so bad...

Wii Play is a really good party game. It sucks ass by yourself though.

[pseudopseudo]

Of course, I also think people are full of shit with how apparantly bad WiiPlay is, because for ten bucks I get my money out of it every time I have someone else to play with, but to each his own...

I guess that's my problem with WiiPlay. If I have someone to play with, we'll sit down and play the battle tank game til the wee morning hours. That part's fun. Outside of that, it collects dust because I gold medaled everything within the first week I had it, and it doesn't have any replayability for me. None.

[Watership]

So in it's first week, it outslold bioshock, which was in it's second? Or overall?

[RMan]

I'll wait for the NPD. Seemed like everyone was (and still is) talking about BioShock. I don't doubt Metroid selling alot, but I'm a little skeptical.
Actually, I’m a big Wii fan, but I have to agree. I think ultimately it’ll sell as well as Bioshock, but relative to the userbase. The 360 still has a much larger userbase in the states, and while Metroid has the advantage of the name, Bioshock has been getting massive ads and press, so I’d say they’re even in respect to consumer appeal.

[T-Rex Commando]

Bioshock would be doing much better if shitheads weren't pirating it.

[Skyelan]

Outside of that, it collects dust because I gold medaled everything within the first week I had it, and it doesn't have any replayability for me. None.

Well I can totally understand that. WiiPlay is definitely NOT a singleplayer game. But then I don't think it ever presented itself as being, and that's why it always baffles me. It's like Mario Party in that respect. Who buys Mario Party to play on their own?

I dunno, I'm not trying to give you shit, I'm just always surprised at the sheer amount of loathing people have for it, when it seems the problem is they expected a game it never tried to be. </shrug observation>

[Nessus]

I mean I bought it, but immediately would've regretted it, had it not come with a Wii-mote. It's so bad...

Seriously, try Tanks! two player, make sure both people have Nunchucks. Really old school addictive and HARD.

There are 100 levels and me and my friend after 5 hours were only able to make it to level 19 (at least one person has to survive each round or you have to start from the beginning).

Tanks! alone justifies my purchase of Wii Play.

[Skyelan]

Seriously, try Tanks!

He already said he did, and enjoys it whenever he has a friend over. ;)

[mkelehan]

This is great news. I loved Bioshock and all, but it's very important that Nintendo remember that core gamers still exist. You'll note that, at E3, they didn't announce a single Wii game for us... and they even disappeared Hammer and Disaster.

Also, as for the badmouthing of Wii Play... it's a $10 game. Hell, I got it, played it for a day, and then sold it to Gamestop... for $10. Saying you would've really regretted buying it if it didn't come with the remote is like saying you'd have really regretted spending $40 on two AA batteries if they didn't come with a remote.

[Bahamut]

Bioshock would be doing much better if shitheads weren't pirating it.

What? It wasn't pirateable for at least a week after release. The bullshit they did to the PC version at least probably decreased a lot of sales.

And I wouldn't be surprised at MP3 selling well - it is a damn good game, and definitely some of the most fun I've had with an FPS ever. Nintendo is conservative with estimates all around, so I wouldn't doubt Nintendo's numbers - if anything, they have a history of underestimating them.

[Mdot23]

Actually, I’m a big Wii fan, but I have to agree. I think ultimately it’ll sell as well as Bioshock, but relative to the userbase. The 360 still has a much larger userbase in the states, and while Metroid has the advantage of the name, Bioshock has been getting massive ads and press, so I’d say they’re even in respect to consumer appeal.

Right. I finished Bioshock last week and am going through MP3 now. Both great games. IMO, Bioshock is leagues above the majority of games out this year, including metroid, but if this is true, it's good to see the hardcore games getting their due attention on the system, since there hasn't been much to test their presence so far (besides Zelda).

[Telefrog]

As are trolls obviously...

Well, if that refers to yourself, sure. I own a Wii, and I am one of the starving. Ass.

[pseudopseudo]

Bioshock would be doing much better if shitheads weren't pirating it.

What, you mean Metroid Prime 3 isn't being pirated by "shitheads" for their modded Wii consoles?

Protip: It is.

[evilgoodwin]

I would say it's because my 360 red ringed, but I still bought bioshock to play when the console gets back.

Thankfully, I have MP3 until then. Which is awesome.

[court12b]

Seriously, try Tanks! two player, make sure both people have Nunchucks. Really old school addictive and HARD.

There are 100 levels and me and my friend after 5 hours were only able to make it to level 19 (at least one person has to survive each round or you have to start from the beginning).

Tanks! alone justifies my purchase of Wii Play.

for a really good time, get 4 people, have two teams, one gunner and one driver on each team :)

[Rock Bandit]

Wii Play is a really good party game. It sucks ass by yourself though.

And sucking ass by yourself is no fun at all. For one thing, most people aren't even that flexible...

[Neuro]

The best thing about Metroid Prime is that it should make future Wii FPS control better.
Well said. That's what I always thought too.

[RorschachCCCLX]

It's cheaper then BioShock, its on a console with a slightly larger install base and its rated T and not M. and thats ITS first week compaired to Bioshock's 2nd.
Metroid has been selling ok in my store , but not fantastic, Bioshock has far out sold it..

[Xerxes]

400,000 copies in total
Halo 3 thinks that's cute.

[lockwoodx]

MP3 didn't come with a root kit!

[Wasson_]

No shame in loosing to Samus.

[Hellbug]

For a console that is selling roughly 400,000 units a month, It could be better.

[TrackZero]

It's not hardcore. Metroid is somewhere in the middle between mainstream and hardcore. It outselling Bioshock shouldn't come as a surprise. New IP in a crowded gamespace versus ancient die-hard IP on a fairly barren system (for gamer games), it's a no-brainer.

[DaXIthR]

Halo 3 thinks that's cute.

I'm sure it does.

Doesn't make Halo a better game, just like this figure doesn't make BioShock a worse game.

TheFlyingOrc, I think creating the standard for future Wii FPS titles is probably the second best thing about Prime 3. I'm going to go with Prime 3 being the best thing about Prime 3.

[CptTripps]

Well you have 10 million wii owners waiting for something worth a shit, what the hell else are they gonna buy, big whoop I say.

[Micasa]

"With Wii releases thin on the ground..."

That might factor a great deal into the strong sales. What else has there been to buy that's worth it?

[Wolvie]

Fuckin awesome! Go Metroid go! Did I mention I'm a huge Metroid fanboy? :D

[Hecubus]

I loved Bioshock--one of, if not the best game I've played so far this year. I also loved the original Metroid Prime (never played 2), but I just can't get into Metroid Prime 3. The controls are killing me, much the same way the Lair controls have prevented me from getting into that game.

I'm a huge video game fan (not a fan-idiot of any console/manufacturer), and I enjoy my 360, Wii, and PS3 for different reasons. But if I were to pick the better game at this point, it would hands down be Bioshock. I just don't think there's any comparison... not that this topic was about the better game, but in all honesty, topics like this are posted to troll bait.

And yes, as a Wii owner, my waggle console is absolutely starving for worthwhile content. It's definitely turned into another N64/GameCube where, for the most part, the only games worth getting are Nintendo developed games. Since I've had it the only games worth playing in my opinion are Zelda, Paper Mario, and Metroid Prime 3 (and I hate the controls on MP3.) After Mario Galaxy, I'll probably ebay my Wii. For the most part, disappointing.

[Food Nipple]

Where did they get these numbers from? There's no source for the article, and as far as I know there's no reputable outfit that does weekly sales numbers in the US.

[*Legion*]

I never thought I'd see the day.

A "Shock"-lineage game, one even more dripping in "high concept" than before, sells so well that it's a news story when one of Nintendo's iconic franchises beats it in sales for a particular week.

After watching the critical acclaim but slim sales of System Shock 2, the death of Looking Glass Studios, and the abandonment of the System Shock franchise... "funny" is the only word I have for it.

[oldjadedgamer]

Where did they get these numbers from? There's no source for the article, and as far as I know there's no reputable outfit that does weekly sales numbers in the US.

This news article is worthless unless their source is named.

[Phanto]

Either way they sell more or not than other games the only people winning in this thing are the sellers, developers etcetera we can praise them all what we want and you know what they don't care about us, they only care about selling their stuff ..at least thats what I think.

[XiaNaphryz]

I wonder where they're getting those stats because VGchartz has some very different numbers that show Bioshock in its first week moving upwards of 400k units and Metroid only reaching somewhere in the 300 range.

If you didn't know, VGChartz "estimates" sales data (i.e. makes up numbers) then "adjusts" them when solid numbers are reported from NPD, Media-Create, etc. Always take their numbers with a grain of salt.

[pseudopseudo]

Now that I think about it:

They're both solid, fun games.

Who cares?

[Shadowstorm]

Or it could be that Wii owners, are y'know, starving for content.

QFE.
Too short, blah blah

[DeathtollWRX]

I have to say I'm really rooting for Bioshock. I've never been so engrossed in a game (with the exception of Dues Ex). I really hope it sells well and gets all the awards and critical acclaim it deserves. Why do even compare the two games? They are worlds apart.

The next thing you know we will get a news report stating "Halo 3 sells well"

[Vermy81]

If you didn't know, VGChartz "estimates" sales data (i.e. makes up numbers) then "adjusts" them when solid numbers are reported from NPD, Media-Create, etc. Always take their numbers with a grain of salt.

No I knew they guesstimated their numbers but so does NPD for that matter that's all you really can do as the hard data is kept very close to the vest by those who know. I certainly don't vouch for their numbers being accurate but CVG didn't even cite an off the record source so who knows how accurate those are.

[Wokapto]

I never thought I'd see the day.

A "Shock"-lineage game, one even more dripping in "high concept" than before, sells so well that it's a news story when one of Nintendo's iconic franchises beats it in sales for a particular week.

After watching the critical acclaim but slim sales of System Shock 2, the death of Looking Glass Studios, and the abandonment of the System Shock franchise... "funny" is the only word I have for it.

"Hey" "I" "like" "quotes" "too."

[pseudopseudo]

"Hey" "I" "like" "quotes" "too."

The funny thing about that post is that I can see him using the "air quotes" every time something goes "in quotation marks".

Ha! Awesome.

[LikeTheRazor]

And sucking ass by yourself is no fun at all. For one thing, most people aren't even that flexible...
Hey man, don't knock it 'til you try it. And that's what yoga is for :D .

[nonchalance]

Does anyone else find this horribly depressing?

I mean I bought it, but immediately would've regretted it, had it not come with a Wii-mote. It's so bad...

I bought Wii Play because it was cheaper than buying a Wiimote on its own. I'm shortly going to buy a second copy, because Wii Play + Wii Mote is $64.95 (AUD) and a Wiimote is $69.95 (AUD).

I have a friend with three copies of Wii Play, merely because he bought three controllers.

Wii Play's sales are simply reflective of its bundled status.

[pseudopseudo]

I bought Wii Play because it was cheaper than buying a Wiimote on its own. I'm shortly going to buy a second copy, because Wii Play + Wii Mote is $64.95 (AUD) and a Wiimote is $69.95 (AUD).

I have a friend with three copies of Wii Play, merely because he bought three controllers.

Wii Play's sales are simply reflective of its bundled status.

To be honest, the controller is the only reason I bought WiiPlay... but over there the game + Wii-mote is MORE expensive than a Wii-mote alone?

That's fucking highway robbery.

[cp#]

Nice, I still need to pick it up.

[Chameleo]

I guess that's my problem with WiiPlay. If I have someone to play with, we'll sit down and play the battle tank game til the wee morning hours. That part's fun. Outside of that, it collects dust because I gold medaled everything within the first week I had it, and it doesn't have any replayability for me. None.

wow you gold medaled everything?

i think most games in wii play suck, but table tennis and tanks are freakin awesome for multiplayer.

pool and fishing are 2nd string games, and the shooting game we pull out once in a while.

i really think everyone's underestimating that game, i love it and play it a lot.

edit: i should clarify, i love it and play it a lot - *with friends*. i never play it alone.

[pseudopseudo]

wow you gold medaled everything?

i think most games in wii play suck, but table tennis and tanks are freakin awesome for multiplayer.

pool and fishing are 2nd string games, and the shooting game we pull out once in a while.

i really think everyone's underestimating that game, i love it and play it a lot.

Yeah. I had a bit of free time, and WiiPlay was the only other game I had (other than WiiSports) for a while there.

I can't stand the table tennis... mostly because if I want to play two player table tennis, I flip on the 360 and play the Rockstar variant.

[Bahamut]

I hated Wii Play - I played it once, unlocked everything, and was completely bored out of my mind. I did flip it used on ebay & a wii remote on craigslist for profit though, so it served its purpose.

And for those who hated Metroid Prime 3's controls - have you played it for more than an hour? At first I thought it was really strange too, but after adjusting, it hands down won me over as my favorite control scheme for a FPS.

[LilAbner]

Not ONE of these MP3: C stories site a source for these sales numbers. Not one.

THIS is what I'm talking about when I mention the state of game journalism. Sloppy.

[oldjadedgamer]

Shouldn't this be considered a RUMOR since no source is cited for the sales data?

[KingGorilla]

Are some of you unaware that most "journalism" on the web is glorified blogging? FYI, this is why we still need print journalism. For some strange reason, it is hard to get actual journalists online. Mostly it is fans and fat asses who got a web site back in 1995.

[mister_slim]

Who's winning between Bioshock and MP3? Who fucking cares, how many other games are in the top three for sales this week? You know who's winning, Irrational and Retro (I don't know about 2K Boston though). And we're winning, because Irrational and Retro get to make more cool games.

[KingGorilla]

I really hope so. All this financial success just HAS to give Retro a chance to FINALLY make a fun game(not sarcasm).

[dfr]

Are some of you unaware that most "journalism" on the web is glorified blogging? FYI, this is why we still need print journalism. For some strange reason, it is hard to get actual journalists online. Mostly it is fans and fat asses who got a web site back in 1995.
so right, because print (game?-)journalism never writes crap or lies :eek:

[Deadend]

I have a feeling the numbers are comparing 360 to Wii sales and ignoring PC entirely.

That said, it's pretty fucking sad that one of Nintendo's "Big" franchises only manages to move 400,000 units.

Maybe all those Wiis out there only have 2 games, Wii Sports, and Wii Play, maybe a Mario Party as well.

[KingGorilla]

so right, because print (game?-)journalism never writes crap or lies :eek:

I would ask you for an example, but I question your literacy based upon your post.

[Talanvor]

I tried to play Bioshock. Goddamn 360 and it's three red eyes, laughing at me.

[Chainblast]

Or it could be that Wii owners, are y'know, starving for content.

Yeah agreed, since the last non-casual, non-mini, actually good game that was released on the Wii was what...Super Paper Mario back at the beginning of April? No Resident Evil 4 doesn't count.

[Nessus]

I loved Bioshock--one of, if not the best game I've played so far this year. I also loved the original Metroid Prime (never played 2), but I just can't get into Metroid Prime 3. The controls are killing me, much the same way the Lair controls have prevented me from getting into that game.

I'm a huge video game fan (not a fan-idiot of any console/manufacturer), and I enjoy my 360, Wii, and PS3 for different reasons. But if I were to pick the better game at this point, it would hands down be Bioshock. I just don't think there's any comparison... not that this topic was about the better game, but in all honesty, topics like this are posted to troll bait.

And yes, as a Wii owner, my waggle console is absolutely starving for worthwhile content. It's definitely turned into another N64/GameCube where, for the most part, the only games worth getting are Nintendo developed games. Since I've had it the only games worth playing in my opinion are Zelda, Paper Mario, and Metroid Prime 3 (and I hate the controls on MP3.) After Mario Galaxy, I'll probably ebay my Wii. For the most part, disappointing.


Have you tried adjusting the sensitivity of the remote for Metroid Prime 3?

Because seriously, MP3 is EASILY, by far, the best home console FPS controls I've ever experienced.

I find it weird that some reviewers didn't seem to be aware of the sensitivity adjustment, or the difficulty option for that matter.

If those reviewers consider "Veteran" mode too easy, then they do not represent the average gamer in terms of skill.

[alienchild]

I tried to play Bioshock. Goddamn 360 and it's three red eyes, laughing at me.

Hahaha that made me laugh out loud... not because it's comical, but because I'm evil ;)

[Royal Fool]

They can only sell them if they're good.

Actually, I was going to say "They can only sell them if they bother publishing any". But yours will do fine.

[NeuroMan42]

I am loving the game but overall I think the game is MUCH shorter then the previous 2 Prime games. It would be cool if the MP3 controls got remapped to the first 2.

[Rotting]

I would say it's because my 360 red ringed, but I still bought bioshock to play when the console gets back.

Thankfully, I have MP3 until then. Which is awesome.

I didn't buy Bioshock because I'm in the same situation as you. If my replacement is another old xbox that will break again then I may have to look at a new way of reading game reviews...

(metacritic score) - (system failure rate percentage)

That would put Bioshock at 66% and Metroid at 90%. I know what you're thinking... it's my loss but I'm awaiting my fourth 360 right now and I just don't fucking care anymore. Metroid is a great game.

[Kelegacy]

I wanted Bioshock to outsell everything currently, even the decades-old franchises from Nintendo.

Oh well. Feckin Wii screwing up everything!!

[grognard66]

Apples and Oranges. Of course, Metroid outsold Bioshock in the first week. Wii owners (myself included) haven't had a decent game to play in months while the 360 lineup is replete with AAA titles released consistently all year long.

Also, Bioshock is a new IP while Metroid is yet another Nintendo IP that they've maintained for many years, so it had an established install base. They're both great games and I'm glad they both seem to be doing well, but it's not worth looking at Metroid as a case study of any kind regarding Wii demographics and potential.

[Reanimated]

Not ONE of these MP3: C stories site a source for these sales numbers. Not one.

THIS is what I'm talking about when I mention the state of game journalism. Sloppy.




Exactly. I'm getting pretty sick of seeing these sketchy stories on the front page here. The editors should know better. This article from CVG smells like bullshit, and CVG has been known to post a lot of pure BS in the past. First off, there's no tracking firm that puts out weekly data, and secondly, they don't mention what their source is. Obviously this is because the source is someone's ass crack.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I really hope so. All this financial success just HAS to give Retro a chance to FINALLY make a fun game(not sarcasm).
Wow, KG! You're so EDGY! With work, can I insult things other people like, too?

I maintain that if you can't enjoy Metroid Prime you're too stuck on some alternate control scheme, and are limiting yourself.

[Gorvi]

So they're both great games, right? Why does it have to be a pissing contest again? Oh, right, this is the internet. Carry on. :rolleyes:

[bapenguin]

I bought both. Ooops.

[Serapth]

Does anyone else find this horribly depressing?

I mean I bought it, but immediately would've regretted it, had it not come with a Wii-mote. It's so bad...

Mail it to me then! I want to try them, but no way I am paying 60$ for a 10$ game and I already have 2 wii motes and dont need more...

[Ancalagon]

Big News - every sports game ever made has sold better than Baldur's Gate 2!

Ergo, sports games must be better than Baldurs Gate 2.

/sarcasm

I know the powers that be want to trump the success of their respective consoles, but this is really just a case of my-e-penis-is-bigger-than-yours, and its pathetic.

We have unsubstantiated journalism using estimated figures to predict that Mp3 is selling better, but, um, who cares?

[firefly2000]

Well you have 10 million wii owners waiting for something worth a shit, what the hell else are they gonna buy, big whoop I say.

You must be one of those PS3 fans , all three of you , LOL

[johnymitsu]

Proving that "hardcore" games can still sell on Wii, Metroid takes the top spot in US all-format chart.

Source: Computer and Video Games (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=171307)

Bioshock is still better:)

[agentgray]

I've played both and I like both, but Bioshock seems a lot more repititive to me. I didn't know that there were so many clones created in Rapture that can utter, "It's not my fault!"

Go in a room, look for little girls, make a decision about little girls, oh no, watch out for the crazy pipe guy. Rinse. Repeat.

Atmosphere is the only thing selling me in that game...and man is it creepy.

Metroid...I can't quite put my finger on it, but I like it a little more.

I think some people just get all pissy because it's the perception of kiddy vs. hardcore and no one online wants to be labeled as a kiddie player, so they get their panties all in a bunch.

[Venkman]

Screw "Hardcore" gaming, just give people an involving game once in a while. Minigames have their audience, but as long as they keep games that have a little more depth and progression in it, then Nintendo can do just fine.

[Achilles]

If this is true all I’m seeing here is a 1st party game on the Wii selling well, which is hardly a news flash. If MP3 was a 3rd party game maybe it would show that the door for mature 3rd party content is open, but as-is, MP3 sold as well as MP2 when it first came out, and it’s no surprise.

Edit:
I just went out and checked VG chartz for what they're saying about the sales data, and they say that Bioshock sold 150k the week Metroid came out, not total (which the story in the news post never claimed either, only that it took the top spot from Bioshock). In total they sold 562k (on 360 only, not sure if that includes the LE), and MP3 sold 314k.

So in summary, there's a place for Nintendo first party games that aren't party games on the Wii to sell ~400k in their opening week if they're part of a main franchise that has a large fanbase. Zelda also showed this.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I've played both and I like both, but Bioshock seems a lot more repititive to me. I didn't know that there were so many clones created in Rapture that can utter, "It's not my fault!"

Go in a room, look for little girls, make a decision about little girls, oh no, watch out for the crazy pipe guy. Rinse. Repeat.

Atmosphere is the only thing selling me in that game...and man is it creepy.

Metroid...I can't quite put my finger on it, but I like it a little more.

I think some people just get all pissy because it's the perception of kiddy vs. hardcore and no one online wants to be labeled as a kiddie player, so they get their panties all in a bunch.

I think people just have different tastes. I am a big Nintendo fan, and liked Bioshock a WEE bit more, even if it got repetitive at certain parts.

[trip1eX]

I got both.

Bio gets pretty repetitive and seems like a pretty standard shooter. It's more about the production values than gameplay.

MP3 is more the opposite. Alot more variety and it's more about the gameplay.

I wouldn't believe this story either not that I don't think MP3 could outsell Bioshock, but this is the internets folks.

In the US the 360 still has a much bigger install base too. And for August's NPD report Bioshock will have been on sale a week longer. At the same time I don't think Bioshock is the kind of game that sells multiple millions.

[Yellowman]

Bio gets pretty repetitive and seems like a pretty standard shooter. It's more about the production values than gameplay.

MP3 is more the opposite. Alot more variety and it's more about the gameplay.


Lol, so you are saying it's a microcosm of the console wars, graphics versus gameplay?

[Heretic Machine]

This post shouldn't be about whether or not Metroid is better than Bioshock. Rather, it should be about the hardcore audience being there on the Wii, in masse, ready to buy quality titles. Many people have said that the Wii's customer base is made up almost entirely of people who are going to be buying nothing but party games and playing Wii Sports. They were wrong, as many of us Nintendo fans have said. That is really the only thing that should be drawn from this.

[Serapth]

This post shouldn't be about whether or not Metroid is better than Bioshock. Rather, it should be about the hardcore audience being there on the Wii, in masse, ready to buy quality titles. Many people have said that the Wii's customer base is made up almost entirely of people who are going to be buying nothing but party games and playing Wii Sports. They were wrong, as many of us Nintendo fans have said. That is really the only thing that should be drawn from this.

Again, all this really reinforces is that 1st party games sell well on Nintendo platforms. Big fucking shock...

[Heretic Machine]

Again, all this really reinforces is that 1st party games sell well on Nintendo platforms. Big fucking shock...

Again, that isn't what I'm talking about. First party and third party is irrelevant to my point, and has yet to be an issue as no quality third party games have shown up (except Dewy's Adventure, which has absolutely no marketing what-so-ever). People have said, explicitely, that the massive install base of the Wii was made of people who wouldn't buy games, especially not hardcore games. They were wrong. This proves, without leaving any doubt, that they were wrong.

[Serapth]

Again, that isn't what I'm talking about. First party and third party is irrelevant to my point, and has yet to be an issue as no quality third party games have shown up (except Dewy's Adventure, which has absolutely no marketing what-so-ever). People have said, explicitely, that the massive install base of the Wii was made of people who wouldn't buy games, especially not hardcore games. They were wrong. This proves, without leaving any doubt, that they were wrong.

Some people have said that...

Most people however have said 3rd party games wont sell for shit on a Nintendo platform, especially compared against Nintendo IPs. That is still true, and Metroid selling well changes nothing. Frankly, I think this should be expected, especially given the sparse number of games actually available.

If Metroid was a 3rd party game, this would be news worthy.

[Heretic Machine]

Most people however have said 3rd party games wont sell for shit on a Nintendo platform

Why are you bringing this up in a topic about a first party game? Just for the sake of bashing Nintendo, or what? You certainly aren't replying to my posts, and you aren't being relevant to the original topic, so I don't know where you're going with this.

[Telefrog]

Again, that isn't what I'm talking about. First party and third party is irrelevant to my point, and has yet to be an issue as no quality third party games have shown up (except Dewy's Adventure, which has absolutely no marketing what-so-ever). People have said, explicitely, that the massive install base of the Wii was made of people who wouldn't buy games, especially not hardcore games. They were wrong. This proves, without leaving any doubt, that they were wrong.

Your argument needs better supporting evidence if MP3 selling on the Wii is what you're using to prove it.

According to the numbers, the massive install base of the Wii is mostly made up of people that did not buy MP3 at all. Let's be generous and say MP3 sold 500K. That leaves about 9.5 million Wii owners that did not buy MP3. An objective observer could come to the conclusion that "hardcore" single-player games on the Wii are not the preferred game of the consumer base.

See how that works?

[RMan]

If this is true all I’m seeing here is a 1st party game on the Wii selling well, which is hardly a news flash. If MP3 was a 3rd party game maybe it would show that the door for mature 3rd party content is open, but as-is, MP3 sold as well as MP2 when it first came out, and it’s no surprise.
Aww, now come on. Are you really saying that Bioshock is a true 3rd party title? They have an exclusivity deal with MS, and from what I can see they’re spending way more money on marketing than MP3, so without seeing the money and marketing muscle being shared from each console maker it’s pretty hard to discern the real world difference between a 1st and 3rd party title.
I just went out and checked VG chartz for what they're saying about the sales data, and they say that Bioshock sold 150k the week Metroid came out, not total (which the story in the news post never claimed either, only that it took the top spot from Bioshock). In total they sold 562k (on 360 only, not sure if that includes the LE), and MP3 sold 314k.
Nice to know that you seem to respect VGChartz data, coincidentally when it can shed positive light on the 360. Even with their first week comparisons, MP3 is selling to a higher percentage of Wii owners than Bioshock sold to 360 owners, indicating, as Perigon said, that contrary to what haters love to claim the consumers are more than willing to buy core gamer titles.
So in summary, there's a place for Nintendo first party games that aren't party games on the Wii to sell ~400k in their opening week if they're part of a main franchise that has a large fanbase. Zelda also showed this.
And System Shock doesn’t have a large fanbase? I’d agree that Metroid is a bigger name, but let’s not pretend that Bioshock was just some unknown either. I’m not sure ultimately what point you’re trying to make, what would be easier is stating exactly what you feel doesn’t have a place on the Wii, because to the objective viewer there doesn’t seem to be anything. So far quality titles seem to be succeeding across the board, if you want to try to support a weakness in the Wii, you really should stay away from sales data.

[Serapth]

Why are you bringing this up in a topic about a first party game? Just for the sake of bashing Nintendo, or what? You certainly aren't replying to my posts, and you aren't being relevant to the original topic, so I don't know where you're going with this.

Its not a topic about MP3. Its a topic about MP3 vs Bioshock which in turn uses that to signify that the Wii appeals to hardcore gamers. I call this bunk and say it illustrates first party games sell well on the Wii, and little more. Now, had MP3 been a 3rd party game, this thread would have been much more interesting.

That said mentioning Bioshock in the first place was simply dumb and a troll baiting action. Secondly, its misleading aswell, as MP3 has not actually outsold Bioshock. All told, being relevant in this thread is more or less impossible as the entire thing is irrelevant.

[DaXIthR]

Some people have said that...

Most people however have said 3rd party games wont sell for shit on a Nintendo platform, especially compared against Nintendo IPs. That is still true, and Metroid selling well changes nothing. Frankly, I think this should be expected, especially given the sparse number of games actually available.

If Metroid was a 3rd party game, this would be news worthy.

I don't know why you're saying this in response to Perigon. Your point has absolutely nothing to do with his, yet you insist on quoting his post without even making oblique reference to it.

Your argument needs better supporting evidence if MP3 selling on the Wii is what you're using to prove it.

According to the numbers, the massive install base of the Wii is mostly made up of people that did not buy MP3 at all. Let's be generous and say MP3 sold 500K. That leaves about 9.5 million Wii owners that did not buy MP3. An objective observer could come to the conclusion that "hardcore" single-player games on the Wii are not the preferred game of the consumer base.

See how that works?

This is asinine.

The Wii installed base from Alaska to Buenos Aires is about 4.6M. The Prime 3 figure reveals that that about 10% of Wii owners have the game within its first week of release.

The 360 installed base for the same region? 7.0M. BioShock first week sales as a reflection of market penetration? About 5%.

See how that works?

Sounds like you're objectively observing your colon with your head so far up your ass....;)

[Bahamut]

Some people have said that...

Most people however have said 3rd party games wont sell for shit on a Nintendo platform, especially compared against Nintendo IPs. That is still true, and Metroid selling well changes nothing. Frankly, I think this should be expected, especially given the sparse number of games actually available.

If Metroid was a 3rd party game, this would be news worthy.

Now if only a 3rd party put out a non-shit game for the Wii.

[Serapth]

I don't know why you're saying this in response to Perigon. Your point has absolutely nothing to do with his, yet you insist on quoting his post without even making oblique reference to it.


It was this I was directly responding to:
Rather, it should be about the hardcore audience being there on the Wii, in masse, ready to buy quality titles. Many people have said that the Wii's customer base is made up almost entirely of people who are going to be buying nothing but party games and playing Wii Sports.

I am saying this is wrong. The issue isnt hardcore vs non-hardcore, its 1st party vs 3rd party. Also, I think its a hell of alot more common to say Wii's customer base is made up of people who are going to be buying nothing but Nintendo games, more so then party games.


Point blank, I just disagree with how he interprets MP3's success.

[DaXIthR]

Its not a topic about MP3. Its a topic about MP3 vs Bioshock which in turn uses that to signify that the Wii appeals to hardcore gamers. I call this bunk and say it illustrates first party games sell well on the Wii, and little more. Now, had MP3 been a 3rd party game, this thread would have been much more interesting.

That said mentioning Bioshock in the first place was simply dumb and a troll baiting action. Secondly, its misleading aswell, as MP3 has not actually outsold Bioshock. All told, being relevant in this thread is more or less impossible as the entire thing is irrelevant.

Wow. We have a news story. News stories have an angle; a perspective on presentation. There are details and signs in the words used to write the story. Signs offer various meanings and interpretations to different people.

You and Perigon have two different interpretations. They are unrelated. Live with it.

Regarding your second point....

Huh? Excuse me? Prime 3 and BioShock are both supposed to be system sellers that came out within two weeks of each other. Both got a lot of hype and early praise. I'm sure if the PS3 had a major title releasing right now, it would have been in the mix as well.

The words of the article are clear. Looking at the first week sales of each title, Prime 3 outsold BioShock. BioShock saw a precipitous drop in its second week. If it's overall sales you're concerned with (even though that's not the subject of the article), just wait a few months. I expect Prime 3 to be well ahead of BioShock 360 then.

And please stop the noise claiming that every comparison of a system and its games is troll-baiting. That's absurd. You're trying to kill any discussion. And, if that's the case, a forum's not the best place for you. If I say I compare the box office receipts of Shrek to The Matrix, am I troll-baiting against the Wachowskis? Or Warner Bros? Or Hugo Weaving?

EDIT:
I am saying this is wrong. The issue isnt hardcore vs non-hardcore, its 1st party vs 3rd party.

You offered a different interpretation, yes, but didn't invalidate Perigon's. That's my point. Hardcore vs Casual, and First Party vs. Third Party are mutually exclusive.

[Achilles]

Again, that isn't what I'm talking about. First party and third party is irrelevant to my point, and has yet to be an issue as no quality third party games have shown up (except Dewy's Adventure, which has absolutely no marketing what-so-ever). People have said, explicitely, that the massive install base of the Wii was made of people who wouldn't buy games, especially not hardcore games. They were wrong. This proves, without leaving any doubt, that they were wrong.Well they did buy Zelda, so I think it's already been proven that there's a large contingent of Wii owners who will buy Nintendo franchise titles like Zelda, Mario and Metroid. If anyone's claiming there's not they were proven wrong last Christmas when Zelda broke 1 million. I don't know if Metroid Prime 3 qualifies as a hardcore title, so much as one of the key Nintendo franchises, even though it's one that's enjoyed mainly by older gamers, and has a more mature theme than something like Mario.

Edit: Red Steel also showed there's a group of Wii owners who are itching for an FPS, and Gods know MP3 is a heck of a lot better than Red Steel.

[Serapth]

And please stop the noise claiming that every comparison of a system and its games is troll-baiting. That's absurd. You're trying to kill any discussion.

Wow... got a bug up your ass today? Do you realize the irony of what you just said combined with what you said earlier:

You and Perigon have two different interpretations. They are unrelated. Live with it.


So, I am trying to kill discussion but you reserve the right to decide what is and isnt conversation worthy. Hmmmmm?


The words of the article are clear. Looking at the first week sales of each title, Prime 3 outsold BioShock. BioShock saw a precipitous drop in its second week.


Lets start with the thread title.. "Metroid Prime 3 Outsells Bioshock" Do you see "in its first week" anywhere? As to the article it says "and even outselling 2K's awesome Bioshock in its first week." I can see where you can draw your interpretation from, but it is by no means clear. Reading that properly it says Prime 3 outsold Bioshock in its first week. Perhaps it was just poor writing on behalf of the article as " besting first week sales of Bioshock" "selling better in one weeks time then Bioshock did" or just about any other choice of words would have been 1000x clearer. Just read through this discussion and you will see a number of people got tripped up on this wording.

[CptTripps]

You must be one of those PS3 fans , all three of you , LOL

Why is that, because I stated the truth in a blunt manner? I do not own a PS3 for the same reason I don't own a Wii, the games list is crap and does not justify $250-500.

[RMan]

I am saying this is wrong. The issue isnt hardcore vs non-hardcore, its 1st party vs 3rd party.
I’d really love to hear a cogent argument as to why this is significant, and how they can tell how significant it is. Really, what is the big ‘difference’ between them? You think that there are significant numbers of people that look for the ‘published by Nintendo’ on the label and nothing else, or somehow use that as a filter? It seems the same people that say Sony is stupid for thinking people will buy the PS3 based on name recognition also think that people buy Nintendo products for the same reason.

If the argument is that the 1st party games get better awareness and press, then I would agree with that. However, Bioshock really should be defined as a 2nd party game, as the 3rd party distinction should be for titles that have not made exclusivity deals with the console maker. Also, IMO, it’s a safe assumption that any commercial ending with the full screen 360 logo has been subsidized by MS. It just makes no sense to pay for 100% of an advertising spot and end it promoting someone else’s product, if I’m paying for it I’m advertising it just like other games, with my product logo at the end with system logos at the bottom. But this is MS’s advantage, it can make deals with 3rd parties easily, since it can afford the relatively expensive tradeoff, and is willing to pay dearly for the 360’s market share. So what’s the difference between 2nd/3rd party and 1st party titles in this respect? We really don’t know without seeing the balance sheets, because MS could be paying just as much to advertise exclusive 360 titles as Nintendo does for 1st party titles, because in terms of their positive impact on the perception of the console they have the same effect.
Also, I think its a hell of alot more common to say Wii's customer base is made up of people who are going to be buying nothing but Nintendo games, more so then party games.
Hehe, that comment has shifted because non ‘party’ games are selling well. Hopefully when non Nintendo games are tearing up the charts the haters will just shut up, but I doubt that, they’ll find something. Again, VERY few consumers care who made the game, and it’s just foolishness that makes people think that those that like Nintendo’s games like them because they are published by Nintendo.

[oldjadedgamer]

So have they updated a source for their numbers yet or is this still a rumor with no facts to back it up?

[TheFlyingOrc]

Serapth, as a side note - I think the Wii, targeting casuals, will have more "Christmas power" than regular systems. I expect most fall games for the system to have longer legs than usual due to the holidays.

[RMan]

So have they updated a source for their numbers yet or is this still a rumor with no facts to back it up?
There are no facts on the internet, only proclamations with constituents :).

[Serapth]

If the argument is that the 1st party games get better awareness and press, then I would agree with that. However, Bioshock really should be defined as a 2nd party game, as the 3rd party distinction should be for titles that have not made exclusivity deals with the console maker. Also, IMO, it’s a safe assumption that any commercial ending with the full screen 360 logo has been subsidized by MS. It just makes no sense to pay for 100% of an advertising spot and end it promoting someone else’s product, if I’m paying for it I’m advertising it just like other games, with my product logo at the end with system logos at the bottom. But this is MS’s advantage, it can make deals with 3rd parties easily, since it can afford the relatively expensive tradeoff, and is willing to pay dearly for the 360’s market share. So what’s the difference between 2nd/3rd party and 1st party titles in this respect? We really don’t know without seeing the balance sheets, because MS could be paying just as much to advertise exclusive 360 titles as Nintendo does for 1st party titles, because in terms of their positive impact on the perception of the console they have the same effect.

To be honest, I don't understand what games get the 360 logo plastered on the end of their commericals. You would think it was 1st/2nd party games, but I have seen it at the end of Madden commercials for example. I have seen the PS logo slapped on the end of FIFA commercials. Really, it all just boils down to cross promotions.

Here is where 1st party on Nintendo and 1st part on Sony/Microsoft really vary. Size and scope. You publish on an MS platform, you are competing head to head with Microsoft mostly on FPS games ( Gears of War, Halo 3, Bioshock ) and maybe a small amount in other genre's like RPGs ( Fable ). Microsoft used to have a sports division they supported until solid 3rd party support showed up then they nixed it. Now, on the Nintendo console, you are competiting with Nintendo if you are making platformers, racers, sports games, party games, pinball, rpgs, etc... Name a genre that Mario, Metroid, Link and co arent already marketed at? First party is so much more established on the Nintendo consoles and is getting more and more pronounced with each new system they create.


Hehe, that comment has shifted because non ‘party’ games are selling well. Hopefully when non Nintendo games are tearing up the charts the haters will just shut up, but I doubt that, they’ll find something. Again, VERY few consumers care who made the game, and it’s just foolishness that makes people think that those that like Nintendo’s games like them because they are published by Nintendo.

From some people sure. Many people have such preconceived notions such as the Xbox only has FPSes, the PS2 has only jRPGs and Nintendo is only kiddy and party games. Then again, lots of people are idiots too... doesnt change much.

That said, people watching the industry for a long time will notice that 3rd party IPs have traditionally sold like shit on Nintendo machines since the N64, and that got worse with the Gamecube. Within the first 8 months, that trend seems to be continuing with the Wii. People always point out that its because all the 3rd party games on the Wii ( GC/N64) are shit! Yet, that argument doesnt really hold water as the same doesnt appear to be happening on other consoles.

[Tinderbox]

So have they updated a source for their numbers yet or is this still a rumor with no facts to back it up?

Not only is there no source, but if their source is vgchartz then they can't even read right since they have MP3 at 314k units for last week.

[Serapth]

Serapth, as a side note - I think the Wii, targeting casuals, will have more "Christmas power" than regular systems. I expect most fall games for the system to have longer legs than usual due to the holidays.

I wouldnt want to predict this christmas to be honest. The Wii has a shitton of mommentum but the Xbox has such an incredible lineup of games coming out in the next month or two. Frankly I can't recall such a batch of high profile titles released in such a small time frame. It could seriously blow up in their faces as money is a finite resource... There is also the question of how many systems Halo 3 actually sells... how many people are literally waiting for Halo before picking up a 360? I imagine that same is true with Wii gamers waiting for Mario next spring.

In the end, I think it could come down to manufacturing ability. The one with the most supply will win. Obviously, Microsoft has the edge in that regard.

[TheFlyingOrc]

That said, people watching the industry for a long time will notice that 3rd party IPs have traditionally sold like shit on Nintendo machines since the N64, and that got worse with the Gamecube. Within the first 8 months, that trend seems to be continuing with the Wii. People always point out that its because all the 3rd party games on the Wii ( GC/N64) are shit! Yet, that argument doesnt really hold water as the same doesnt appear to be happening on other consoles.
From where I was sitting 3rd party support seemed better on the Gamecube than on the N64, even though both sucked.

Somewhere in these archives, I have a pretty good comparison I volleyed back and forth with Gorvi that shows that the first year of the Wii is pretty darn analogous to the first year of the PS2, with the Wii a bit weaker. I think that as fall continues we're going to see more and more little gems pop up that hint at 3rd party support to come. Note that there really isn't anything announced for the Wii past first quarter '08, and I still maintain the games are coming in the second quarter.

Yes, the Wii is weak this Christmas, and the 360 was probably better last year, in the 3rd party department. However, the wave after wave of games didn't really start until the 360's second year. Also, the Wii needs a holiday.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I wouldnt want to predict this christmas to be honest. The Wii has a shitton of mommentum but the Xbox has such an incredible lineup of games coming out in the next month or two. Frankly I can't recall such a batch of high profile titles released in such a small time frame. It could seriously blow up in their faces as money is a finite resource... There is also the question of how many systems Halo 3 actually sells... how many people are literally waiting for Halo before picking up a 360? I imagine that same is true with Wii gamers waiting for Mario next spring.

In the end, I think it could come down to manufacturing ability. The one with the most supply will win. Obviously, Microsoft has the edge in that regard.

There are so many variables it isn't even funny. I expect Microsoft to sell more games overall, though.

The real question is this: Is Nintendo either increasing production or stockpiling? If they aren't doing either, a Wii will be freaking impossible to get this Christmas.

And you're an idiot if you wait for the release date of a Wii game before getting it this Christmas. When Mario/Smash Brothers come out, there will not be Wiis to be had.

[Gorvi]

You're right, TFO, you did make some good points in that discussion. I think the main difference right now between the Wii now and the PS2 then was that you at least had things you could look forward to from third parties on the PS2, where as right now with the Wii there's nothing really on the horizon that's been announced.

That very well could change at TGS in 2 weeks, though. I kinda hope it does, I want more of a reason to get a Wii.

EDIT: Also, a good number of those good games for the PS2 in the first year were 3rd party, where you don't have that as much with the Wii. Most (if not all) of the best games are first party.

[TheFlyingOrc]

You're right, TFO, you did make some good points in that discussion. I think the main difference right now between the Wii now and the PS2 then was that you at least had things you could look forward to from third parties on the PS2, where as right now with the Wii there's nothing really on the horizon that's been announced.

That very well could change at TGS in 2 weeks, though. I kinda hope it does, I want more of a reason to get a Wii.
Well, the difference is that 3rd parties weren't making Wii games until January of this year, and they were making them before the Dreamcast came out for the PS2.

THEY ARE COMING.

[Serapth]

There are so many variables it isn't even funny. I expect Microsoft to sell more games overall, though.

The real question is this: Is Nintendo either increasing production or stockpiling? If they aren't doing either, a Wii will be freaking impossible to get this Christmas.

And you're an idiot if you wait for the release date of a Wii game before getting it this Christmas. When Mario/Smash Brothers come out, there will not be Wiis to be had.

Stock piling for Christmas just wouldn't make sense. Lets put it this way, if they are making sales of 100%, why wait till Christmas to make sales of..... 100%? There is no win on Nintendo's end.

Now, retailers stockpiling their Wii's for Christmas, that makes a bit more sense. There is an upside of being "the place" with wii's come holiday season as they get to 1) draw a crowd to their store during the most insane time of year 2) be the one to sell the 2.2 games and 1.8 accesories with the system. Even still, I doubt retailers would start stockpiling yet either as they have to float the costs then.

[Gorvi]

Well, the difference is that 3rd parties weren't making Wii games until January of this year, and they were making them before the Dreamcast came out for the PS2.

THEY ARE COMING.
Oh, I know that. And it's even obvious that they're coming. What those games end up being, though, is what I'm not so sure of. I hope they're substantial, I really do.

[Serapth]

That very well could change at TGS in 2 weeks, though. I kinda hope it does, I want more of a reason to get a Wii.


If Bioshock wasnt enought o convince you to get a 360, whats it gonna take to sell you on a Wii you cheap bastard! ;)

[TheFlyingOrc]

Stock piling for Christmas just wouldn't make sense. Lets put it this way, if they are making sales of 100%, why wait till Christmas to make sales of..... 100%? There is no win on Nintendo's end.

Now, retailers stockpiling their Wii's for Christmas, that makes a bit more sense. There is an upside of being "the place" with wii's come holiday season as they get to 1) draw a crowd to their store during the most insane time of year 2) be the one to sell the 2.2 games and 1.8 accesories with the system. Even still, I doubt retailers would start stockpiling yet either as they have to float the costs then.

Another thing that would help is just shifting production away from Japan somewhat (actually, I hear you can get them in Japan - perhaps that's what they're doing?), as Japan doesn't have a Christmas. :( (that sounds so sad when put that way)

[Gorvi]

If Bioshock wasnt enought o convince you to get a 360, whats it gonna take to sell you on a Wii you cheap bastard! ;)
Because I'd want more on the Wii than just one game. And it'd be good for the kid to play with. ;)

[TheFlyingOrc]

Because I'd want more on the Wii than just one game. And it'd be good for the kid to play with. ;)

Good news! By this Christmas, there's FIVE very good games, in varying genres!

If you need more, the 6th really good one comes out in the spring ;)

edit: I like this 3-way dialogue between a level-headed Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft fan ;)

[Gorvi]

Good news! By this Christmas, there's FIVE very good games, in varying genres!

If you need more, the 6th really good one comes out in the spring ;)

edit: I like this 3-way dialogue between a level-headed Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft fan ;)
I count Zelda, Paper Mario, Mario Galaxy, Metroid, and Fire Emblem. So yeah, 5. :) Mario Kart I'm skeptical of. If it's more like the DS MK, I'll be happy. If it's closer to the GC game, no thanks.

[Serapth]

Another thing that would help is just shifting production away from Japan somewhat (actually, I hear you can get them in Japan - perhaps that's what they're doing?), as Japan doesn't have a Christmas. :( (that sounds so sad when put that way)

Well... that whole not being Christian thing.... :) You know, as I get older and have to drive from house to fucking house to fucking house, I start to kinda tire of Christmas to be honest. On the brightside, with a little one on the way, in the next few years it should get alot more exciting.

I think Japan makes a WAYYYYYYY bigger deal about New Years though, so win some lose some, right?

Ok, very off track now..

[TheFlyingOrc]

I count Zelda, Paper Mario, Mario Galaxy, Metroid, and Fire Emblem. So yeah, 5. :) Mario Kart I'm skeptical of. If it's more like the DS MK, I'll be happy. If it's closer to the GC game, no thanks.
Oh, you can just die. Smash Brothers is a good game no matter WHAT you think.

That is a fair reservation. However, I suspect they won't have the heavy kart/ 2 racer thing this time.

edit: STEERING WHEEL!!!!!

[TheFlyingOrc]

Well... that whole not being Christian thing.... :)

Oh, I know why they don't have it - but it just sounds so Christmas-special-y "The Country without a Christmas". "Master Yoshi, we've got to free Santa or there will be NO CHRISTMAS this year!"

[Gorvi]

Oh, you can just die. Smash Brothers is a good game no matter WHAT you think.

That is a fair reservation. However, I suspect they won't have the heavy kart/ 2 racer thing this time.

edit: STEERING WHEEL!!!!!
Meh, I'll respect that people enjoy it, but as much as I tried to like the GC game, I just couldn't get into it. :(

[TheFlyingOrc]

Meh, I'll respect that people enjoy it, but as much as I tried to like the GC game, I just couldn't get into it. :(

It's pretty much the weakest game in the series. Esp. since battle mode sucked. Block Fort 4 Lyfe.

edit: Oh, wait - Smash Brothers? Yeah, you're broken and no longer able to experience fun or happiness, apparently

[RMan]

Now, on the Nintendo console, you are competiting with Nintendo if you are making platformers, racers, sports games, party games, pinball, rpgs, etc... Name a genre that Mario, Metroid, Link and co arent already marketed at? First party is so much more established on the Nintendo consoles and is getting more and more pronounced with each new system they create.
This doesn’t seem related to why consumers would buy Nintendo games, or why it’d make a difference if it wasn’t published by Nintendo. This is more a discussion of why you don’t want to try to dethrone a market leader, but if MP3 was published by someone else I don’t see it making much of a difference. I mean, as has been stated, Red Steel sold pretty well and was a pretty poor game by most accounts. MP3’s a good game, with good marketing, timing, and pedigree. If it said published by Ubisoft rather than published by Nintendo, I don’t see any evidence that’d significantly impact sales.
That said, people watching the industry for a long time will notice that 3rd party IPs have traditionally sold like shit on Nintendo machines since the N64, and that got worse with the Gamecube.
You mean since the machines people didn’t generally like, go figure. Seriously, it’d be wise to stop talking about the N64 as if it is representative of Nintendo, especially now. They dropped the ball on the N64, and the GC wasn’t strong enough to pull them from the brink, and generally the best 3rd party developers moved to the PS1/PS2, the dominant system (as is natural). They are their most significant failures, I don’t think it’s fair to use MS BOB as representative of MS’s software capabilities, for example. But still, pick some titles and tell me why you think that not being 1st party was the cause of their failure, why is that significant?

If you look at the GC logically, for instance, it seems the reason it was hard to do anything but a kids game on it is because it really pigeonholed itself into that position (by design and circumstance). It was made to be cheap, didn’t play DVDs, and it’s competition locked up the core and high end market. Without 5 or so big games on par with RE4 nothing short of a miracle was going to make it appeal heavily to anything but family oriented customers. No matter what, though, I don’t think RE4 would have sold significantly better if it was published by Nintendo.
Within the first 8 months, that trend seems to be continuing with the Wii. People always point out that its because all the 3rd party games on the Wii ( GC/N64) are shit! Yet, that argument doesnt really hold water as the same doesnt appear to be happening on other consoles.
Huh? Are you saying that even though the games aren’t good they should be selling, or are you saying that the games aren’t crap, or are you saying that 3rd party crap sells better on other consoles? Are you actually saying that the seemingly clear fact that most 3rd party games are crap is not the reason for their failure, that somehow the logical conclusion is that it’s the 3rd party part? You really think the customers care more about the 3rd party part than the crap part?

Whether they’re 3rd party or not, people gravitate towards appealing games they are aware of. Therefore, marketing and the game itself draw them in, I’ve never heard anyone say ‘I just can’t wait to buy the next Nintendo game’. The top games on a system sell to that systems owners, 1st party or not, consumers don’t much care who makes them.

[RMan]

Now, retailers stockpiling their Wii's for Christmas, that makes a bit more sense.
Hmm, I hadn't thought much about that, but at this point, that does make sense. I mean, technically a retailer wouldn't want to withhold a sale because that decreases the chance they actually get a sale, but at this time I think everyone assumes the Wii will sell out again this year, so they're selling no matter how long they hold them. I actually haven't seen a Wii in a store yet, not once, had to get mine from eBay (and just called to get it replaced, freaking disk read errors), so I just don't see much chance that they'll be easily obtained till next year.

[DaXIthR]

Wow... got a bug up your ass today?

Yeah, actually. Sorry about that.

Bug's gone. TFO took care of it.

[Hecubus]

Have you tried adjusting the sensitivity of the remote for Metroid Prime 3?

Because seriously, MP3 is EASILY, by far, the best home console FPS controls I've ever experienced.

I find it weird that some reviewers didn't seem to be aware of the sensitivity adjustment, or the difficulty option for that matter.

If those reviewers consider "Veteran" mode too easy, then they do not represent the average gamer in terms of skill.

I'll give the adjustment thing a try, but I'm just not fond of the control scheme in general. For one, I'd like to be able to not only lock onto an enemy, but have my weapon reticle lock on as well. It just seems a little pointless to target lock if your gun isn't locked on target as well. Is this an adjustment in the settings perhaps? I'll take a look.

I'm deep in Blue Dragon right now, but I'm going to go back to MP3 and give it another chance as soon as I'm done with that.

[MrSatan]

Wii play is a steaming pile of turd. The only reason anyone bought it is because it was bundled with a controller. Hell I don't even think it is worth the DVD its printed on.

I do enjoy Metroid Prime quite a bit, even though I am still saddened that they turned one of the greatest platformers ever into a fps.

[mister_slim]

I'll give the adjustment thing a try, but I'm just not fond of the control scheme in general. For one, I'd like to be able to not only lock onto an enemy, but have my weapon reticle lock on as well. It just seems a little pointless to target lock if your gun isn't locked on target as well. Is this an adjustment in the settings perhaps? I'll take a look.

One of the settings does indeed change lock-on so it works as you mention. I think it would make some of the bosses harder though.