State of the Handheld Industry 5

[ptstyls]

Nintendo Insider (http://nintendoinsider.com/) is running a week long, four part feature called "State of the Handheld Industry 5." Yesterday, they posted Part One (http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEkEEkpyluvwVJxMhC.php), a handheld developer roundtable, with developers such as Vicarious Visions, Backbone Entertainment and Ready at Dawn. Today, they posted Part Two (http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEkEkpkZFVzaqLdIut.php), an interview with Nintendo's Perrin Kaplan. Both are interesting reads. An excerpt from Part One:

Nintendo projects it will ship almost as many GBA's in the next year as DS's. Do you think the GBA, GBmicro and all, can continue to coexist with the DS, especially with the PSP on the scene? Has your studio specifically moved on from GBA, or are you and publishers still showing interest in GBA titles?

Karthik Bala, Vicarious Visions: Oh absolutely! We are still very much committed to the GBA. We really see the GBA, DS and PSP pushing the handheld market in different directions. That’s what is different now than in the past when we have seen multiple handheld systems at once. Back in the early-mid 90s, we saw the Atari Lynx, Sega Game Gear, Turbo Grafix Express and more. They all went after the same audience as Game Boy – and failed. Game Boy was the least technologically advanced, but the most accepted by the handheld audience.

Now we’re seeing Sony and Nintendo cleverly positioning their systems to different audiences, which could really help grow the market. The Game Boy isn’t going away. The Micro is just so cool. Just like the SP, Micro is going to be a real shot in the arm for Game Boy Advance.

Vicarious Visions is working on several titles for the holidays including Ultimate Spider-Man and Tony Hawk’s American Wasteland for the GBA. They are very different games than the DS version and they really play to the strengths of the system. From the looks of things, we’ll still be developing Game Boy titles for some time.

[Sykus]

You know, I understand the idea behind the argument that the DS and the Gameboy target different audiences, therefore it's okay for them to co-exist. But it's ridiculous. The DS and the GB do NOT target different audiences. The DS has the same draw that the GB does. All the kids I know who have a SP want a DS too. On the other hand, I don't know anyone (yet) who's forgoing a Palm Pilot in favor of a DS.

I am never going to understand how Nintendo thinks they are doing anything other than competing against themselves by having both of these handhelds on the market at the same time. It is the stupidest strategy I have EVER seen them employ.

It's as if someone at the company said, "Wait, wait, we haven't screwed up enough! We're still a profitable company! Where is that profit coming from? The handheld market? Excellent, let's destroy our hold there! Then we'll truly drive this company into the ground!"

I just don't get it.

Idiots.

[Blade]

The DS plays GBA titles.

So really, it's all price at this point. Pay $60-70 for a good handheld, pay double that for a great handheld that is backward compatible.

[CapnBob]

I just don't get it.

Well, if you think that the DS is trying to compete with palm pilots then you DEFINITELY don't get it. If fact, you've made yourself sound like you simply haven't paid any attention to the system at all other than hearing that it has a touchscreen. That's not a very good way to make your point.

[MasterEvilAce]

Let's ask a representative of Large Company A about their Product!

Interviewer: Hello, do you think your Product can beat ProductX?

Rep: Oh, no. I don't. I think we're making a horribly overpriced product, and we'll soon be bankrupt.

[MongolHunter]

Younger kids prefer the SP and older kids prefer the PSP and DS. It's not hard to find two markets for both of them. Sure some younger kids will be able to use and enjoy the DS or PSP and some older kids will have a DS but there are different markets that Nintendo are targeting at the moment.

I can see the PSP going down the toilet. Everything that people say nowadays seems to be a criticism of it that sounds a bit like the game gear situation years ago.

Maybe one day Nintendo can transform their handheld successes into the console market.

[carneconcarne]

You know, I understand the idea behind the argument that the DS and the Gameboy target different audiences, therefore it's okay for them to co-exist. But it's ridiculous. The DS and the GB do NOT target different audiences. The DS has the same draw that the GB does. All the kids I know who have a SP want a DS too. On the other hand, I don't know anyone (yet) who's forgoing a Palm Pilot in favor of a DS.

I am never going to understand how Nintendo thinks they are doing anything other than competing against themselves by having both of these handhelds on the market at the same time. It is the stupidest strategy I have EVER seen them employ.

It's as if someone at the company said, "Wait, wait, we haven't screwed up enough! We're still a profitable company! Where is that profit coming from? The handheld market? Excellent, let's destroy our hold there! Then we'll truly drive this company into the ground!"

I just don't get it.

Idiots.


Just like those dumb car companies! Selling two (or more!) products that service largely the same function at different price points and quality in order to service demographics of differing income levels and preferences! God, it's so ignorant! If only Sykus and I could convince these companies of the poor business choices they're making, we'd be millionaires!

[31 Flavas]

You know, I understand the idea behind the argument that the DS and the Gameboy target different audiences, therefore it's okay for them to co-exist. But it's ridiculous. The DS and the GB do NOT target different audiences. The DS has the same draw that the GB does. All the kids I know who have a SP want a DS too. On the other hand, I don't know anyone (yet) who's forgoing a Palm Pilot in favor of a DS.Playing a stylus game i'd say is a lot different then playing a GBA or PSP game. I mean could you make versions of Meteos, Yoshi-touch & go, Warioware, Polarium, Pokemon Dash, Metroid Hunters, Advance Wars, Castlevania, or any other game coming out for DS playable without a stylus? Sure, in fact, that's been the "oppositions" main point, hasn't it? What millions of people, who have tried it, found out though was that playing with a stylus / touch screen is fun, if not easier or more fun then buttons alone in some cases. So what we have is a tried and true and inexpensive GBA which interestes just about everyone and has something about everyone, unless your a graphics whore. The Nintendo DS which lets you play with a stylus and two video screens, and, as a bonus, single player GBA games. And then the PSP which plays to the graphics and multimedia conscious.

You can't get the 2D game action of GBA on PSP at all, you can't get the stylus and dual screen games on either GBA or PSP, and you can't get the 3D graphics and multimedia of the PSP on either GBA or NDS, at least, not at anywere near the same level of the PSP.

I am never going to understand how Nintendo thinks they are doing anything other than competing against themselves by having both of these handhelds on the market at the same time. It is the stupidest strategy I have EVER seen them employ.Well look at it this way, Not everyone is going to want to play with a stylus and two screens (gimmicky, geeky, stupid, whatever you want to call it) or be able to afford the system and the games. GBA games are by no means not fun or not viable anymore just because DS and PSP have raised the graphical capabilites bar. Besides if you want to play multiplayer or trading based GBA games, you have to have a GBA. You're the idiot if you're just going to dismiss the Gameboy brand because "something better" exists. .... How many competitors tried, and failed miserably, to stomp Gameboy under their technological foot?

It's as if someone at the company said, "Wait, wait, we haven't screwed up enough! We're still a profitable company! Where is that profit coming from? The handheld market? Excellent, let's destroy our hold there! Then we'll truly drive this company into the ground!" Neither the DS or PSP are going to destory GBA. It like saying xbox or Gamecube, or both, was/were/are/is going to destory the Playstation brand.

[*Legion*]

Did you really just ask if anyone could make an Advance Wars game without a stylus?

[31 Flavas]

Did you really just ask if anyone could make an Advance Wars game without a stylus?I guess so... whats so heinous or nieve about asking? The point is not that these games could be made w/o the need for a stylus, but rather that these games can be more fun or easy or both with a stylus. And certainly thats why the DS and DS games sell.

Clearly the lines have been drawn about who thinks the stylus / dual screens are stupid, gimmicky, or 'shoehorned' in. But if graphics, big widescreen LCD, true analoge sticks, UMD, and MemorySticks are the only thing gamers care about in handhelds today, why is the DS outselling the PSP?

[MajSheppard]

Well the PSP is doing better in America then the DS is, and vice versa in Japan. This further illustrates that the markets are very different and that is why Nintendo is not going away, no matter what you hear from idiots at your local game store. In terms of innovation Nintendo always wins, in terms of hype Sony always wins. Both moves systems to start, but games will be what moves them in the end. In Japan they have way more DS games and of different types, in the US Sony started off with many more titles then the DS and the novelty of the UMD movies ect.
I feel the two markets are becoming even more polarized, Europe and China may end up being the market that really becomes important.
Does it surpise anyone that the country that has taken all the blue collar jobs soon will decide the biz. What is a a surprise is that Nintendo has an edge here because they are counterfit-proof compared to the other two.

[Hellstorm]

All I have to say is damn Nintendo, Nintendogs and Advance Wars DS on the same day? That's not fair!!!

[31 Flavas]

All I have to say is damn Nintendo, Nintendogs and Advance Wars DS on the same day? That's not fair!!! ... Am I coming across as "damning" Advance Wars DS? I don't see an any news article doing so, unless i'm blind. I'm certainly not, if anyone thinks I am. The "opposition" argument, correct me if I'm wrong, in part or in whole, is that these DS games would be so much better if Nintendo just chucked the stylus, touch screen, and second screen altogther and went with "standard" controls / analoge stick, a PSP style screen, and better graphics, right?

My thesis is that Nintendogs, Advance Wars DS, Meteos, Metroid Hunters, Warioware Touched, et all would be no where near as appealing or fun if that were the case then. Advance wars was great fun on just the GBA, but will be so much more fun on the DS because of the stylus, touch screen, and dual screens.

edit: That said their will be customers that have no interest in using the stylus or can't afford (or for that matter, justify) the $70 premium over the existing GBA and, like wise, the $10 premium on most DS games. And GBA games will continue to exist because and sell like mad because you can't get the software anywhere else.

[Hellstorm]

Thanks for the term paper, but damn in that they both come out on the SAME day, meaning I will have to get them BOTH.

[copa31]

Seeing how this is my first post to this website I'm not going to try to understand where a lot of people are comming from, but I just joined because this thread seemed very interesting. I work as a district manager for GameStop here in the midwest and I have heard quite a few rumors comming down the pipe about where each system is headed. DS and Nintendo in general are doing OK; however, their selling power in North America has been falling ever since N64. The handheld market is still dominated by the Gameboy SP. My take on the new generation of handhelds though is that Nintendo doesn't want to target a more mature audience because why kill the goose or stop feeding it when it still is laying golden eggs? Nintendo is a business first and a game maker second. Once the PSP drops to a lower price point (November) it will start to inch its way into a greater share of the market. If it weren't for Mario, Zelda, and Samus Nintendo would be in the same boat as Sega.

[netcraazzy]

My take on the new generation of handhelds though is that Nintendo doesn't want to target a more mature audience because why kill the goose or stop feeding it when it still is laying golden eggs?

The way I see it this is what Nintendo has been aiming to do by not killing off the Gameboy SP. I think they view the DS as targeting the older market with it's more advanced features and higher price and the well entrenched SP/GBA Micro targets the kiddy (preteen) market where Mom&Dad make the purchase decision and the low price is an important selling feature.

Sony on the other hand is all about sexy hardware and is clearly only targeting the older gamer and guys that like gadgets.

I think long-term things could go 2 ways. Sony could assert it's dominance in the more mature market and the DS replaces the GBA as the handheld kiddy king OR the PSP becomes somewhat of an expensive niche item and the DS carries the older "gamer" crowd for Nintendo while the GBA Micro keeps the kiddies in the Nintendo camp.

[mister_slim]

I like how Nintendo hardware design is now better than Sony's. That's a twist I didn't see coming.