2K Games Responds to Copy Protection Hubub

[Dr.Finger]

Word came out earlier (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34747) that gamers installing BioShock on the PC were limited to 2 installations per game disc. 2K has now issued their official response (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=125418#post125418) to the controversy.hey guys,

first, let me say this. you DO NOT NEED TO USE THE INTERNET EVERY TIME YOU PLAY THIS GAME. it is only the first time.

second, you can uninstall and reinstall this game, and if, by chance, you have 2 computers you want to simultaneously play this game on, you also can do that.

if by some chance you are reinstalling this game without uninstalling it first, a lot, there is a chance you may have to call securom and get a key, or deactivate some older installations.

but if you upgrade your hardware next week, you'll still be able to play the game. if you revamp your system and need to reinstall bioshock, just uninstall it before you go through the overhaul, and then do your reinstall.

calling it "hardware fingerprinting" is a bit alarmist. we do not transmit any of your data to any companies.

really, the only people who will be concerned about any of these security measures are those who are rapidly putting bioshock on many pcs... if you use the game as you normally do, you won't notice this at all.

Found @ Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/22/2k-responds-to-bioshock-pc-copy-protection-issue-and-ignores-ps3/).

[KingGorilla]

And the question of the day:
Why is it not on the Box, the web site, or Steam that this copy protection is in the game code?

[mkelehan]

Hey, 2K Elisabeth. This is your job. Learn to use capital letters.

[cp#]

Hey, 2K Elisabeth. This is your job. Learn to use capital letters.

That bitch is a slut anyway

[Kielaran]

That bitch is a slut anyway

Well that was slightly harsh. At least there was an official response. Also, agree on that it could have looked more professional.

[claws]

If she's following the usual procedure, she'll now retreat into hiding for a few days and only appear to answer questions about her cat or agree with those who say how great the game is. It probably seemed like such a nice job and now the entire internet hates her!

[TrackZero]

That bitch is a slut anyway

Whoa, seriously man, what the hell?

[Murph the Surf]

That bitch is a slut anyway

Just because she wouldn't agree to meet you in a public place...? :rolleyes:

[Fug]

It probably seemed like such a nice job and now the entire internet hates her!

I'm sure she's crying herself to sleep at that thought. Also, if anyone thinks any sort of internet based gaming community manager job is going to be 'nice' then they're probably unqualified. Gamer forum lurkers can be the most conspiracy minded, intolerable pricks around. Present company excluded...

That bitch is a slut anyway

:rolleyes:

[Telefrog]

but if you upgrade your hardware next week, you'll still be able to play the game. if you revamp your system and need to reinstall bioshock, just uninstall it before you go through the overhaul, and then do your reinstall.

Will it get to the point where I will need to uninstall everything when I revamp my system?

[SunTzu]

Wow, so if this Copy Protection stuff isn't as bad as everyone says it is, then why am I constantly hearing how it "freezes up" at multiple points of the instillation? In fact, right now I'm speaking to a freind over MSN that is actively trying to crack a copy of a game he fucking paid for in the hopes that he may someday play it.

2K fucked up bad, and it doesn't appear as though they'll ever own up to it.

[claws]

I read that the installer is very good at taking activations, but if it crashes or you try to uninstall, it doesn't always release them. I guess they'll end up increasing the activation limit to 5 or something as a way of showing they 'listen to the community'.

[Sloth]

uh oh spagehetti o's

Will this stop pirates? No
Will this annoy paying customers? YES

Now then someone explain to me why we have copy protection?

[Zander]

I've said it before and I have to say it again.

This will drive people to using the crack (best case) or pirate the whole damn thing (worst case).

[claws]

Will this stop pirates? No
Will this annoy paying customers? YES
Now then someone explain to me why we have copy protection?
There were no pirate releases before the street date, and as far as I know it remains uncracked. There's a lot of people who'll download the game if it's available, but will might be keen enough to buy it otherwise. So I guess it was worth it.

[Heretic Machine]

There were no pirate releases before the street date, and as far as I know it remains uncracked. There's a lot of people who'll download the game if it's available, but will might be keen enough to buy it otherwise. So I guess it was worth it.

Uhh... I'm pretty sure it was up on Demonoid before I had it in my hands.

[claws]

The 360 version though rather than the PC one with the activation. I might be wrong, but it's the first I've heard of it.

[Phanto]

Well I'll guess 2K is starting to be a little like Microsoft with Windows Vista the only thing is that they aren't that hard pain in the ass.

[Heretic Machine]

The 360 version though rather than the PC one with the activation. I might be wrong, but it's the first I've heard of it.

No, the 360 version was out earlier than that. I heard something about the PC version going up on Monday. But that was on 4chan, so who knows.

[SunTzu]

This probobly go down as the biggest "Install/Uninstall" fuck up since Myth 2.

[claws]

No, the 360 version was out earlier than that. I heard something about the PC version going up on Monday. But that was on 4chan, so who knows.
Yeah, I wasn't very clear there - the 360 version was before release or very close to it. I hear the PC version has been broken but it's hard to be sure ; either way the online activation did some downloads which kept the pirates at bay for a few days at least.

[cp#]

Harsh joke, but still a joke.

[Satertek]

There were no pirate releases before the street date, and as far as I know it remains uncracked. There's a lot of people who'll download the game if it's available, but will might be keen enough to buy it otherwise. So I guess it was worth it.

It took longer than usual but there appears to be a cracked copy going around now.

But like someone said, pirates get to enjoy the game hassle free while people who put the cash down have to deal with calling SecureROM when they forget to uninstall.

What gets me is that the Steam version has this same protection, which doesn't make any sense to me. One of Steam's biggest draws is its ability to let you download and install all of your games on as many systems as you like, so long as you are logged in to your account.

[NationalKato]

calling it "hardware fingerprinting" is a bit alarmist.

All misogynistic comments aside, I have to respond to the above with, "Hello? Welcome to teh intarwebs?" I mean, what did they expect was going to happen when the news got out? The internet is alarmist.

[Fudjo]

I'm glad they dumbed it down for the 360 version.

[Esquilax1138]

I'm failing to see a problem here, I put the DVD in the drive, installed it, it activated and I play... whats the problem? If I reinstall windows or rebuild the system, I uninstall it.. then reinstall it...

Oh NOES!!

Maybe some of you whiners should go back to playing cards or board games if letting a game activate is a big fucking deal.

[rein]

You whiney little children. Back in my day, we didn't have fancy nancy copy protection like this. We had color coded wheels and were required to look through our manuals at certain pages for specific words to play our game. Oh, and don't me started on games you had to spend hours with just to get them to play on your pc even without the copy protection. Friggin Sierra Dynamix.

[f1sh3r]

QQ more bitches, you brought this upon yourselves. there's no reason to have an issue with this copy protection unless you arrrrrr (http://youtube.com/watch?v=JiPnuuE60r8) a pirate.

[Sensei-X]

Could be because some people are already reporting if the install fails for any reason, you can no longer install it on that machine at all, or perhaps it's because in the real world a huge percentage of reinstalls are a result of hardware failure not upgrades making uninstalling a bit difficult, anyway here are your rose-colored glasses, carry on.

I'm failing to see a problem here, I put the DVD in the drive, installed it, it activated and I play... whats the problem? If I reinstall windows or rebuild the system, I uninstall it.. then reinstall it...

Oh NOES!!

Maybe some of you whiners should go back to playing cards or board games if letting a game activate is a big fucking deal.

[f1sh3r]

You whiney little children. Back in my day, we didn't have fancy nancy copy protection like this. We had color coded wheels and were required to look through our manuals at certain pages for specific words to play our game. Oh, and don't me started on games you had to spend hours with just to get them to play on your pc even without the copy protection. Friggin Sierra Dynamix.

yeah no doubt. page 2, word 3. and memory managers. if you wanna play this game you need a configuration, but if you wanna play that game you need another configuration. and red plastic cards to see hidden messages to enter into games to continue. oi oi oi.

[Telefrog]

I'm failing to see a problem here, I put the DVD in the drive, installed it, it activated and I play... whats the problem? If I reinstall windows or rebuild the system, I uninstall it.. then reinstall it...

Oh NOES!!

Maybe some of you whiners should go back to playing cards or board games if letting a game activate is a big fucking deal.

The other big deal would be that if every game required the same procedure, then you're talking about uninstalling every game properly before you can reinstall windows or revamp your system. Care to add another hour to that process as it is now?

[Feltoar]

I've said it before and I have to say it again.

This will drive people to using the crack (best case) or pirate the whole damn thing (worst case).

Us yes, but as someone else complained its not written on the box. I bet your average joe isnt going to know and will still buy the game. Inadvertently supporting 2K.

I really dont like the sound of this deactivation crap. I do things by the book but Im worried about the hassles of when my computer dies. When Im reinstalling a game its usually because something has gone wrong and Im reinstalling over the same files to get some registry keys or something that the game wants to work.

I hope its easy to 'call' (what about us that live outside the USA?) securom and deactivate our keys. This will no doubt cause troubles for me.

Also, anyone using no cd cracks will need to be ever MORE careful now that there are limited installations. Some cracks steal your cd key and send it out. So you might find one day all of a sudden you cannot install your second install.

[TempestBlayze]

Read Dan Stapleton's problem:

www.pcgamer.com

I think this is going to happen to a lot of people. Not to mention a big headach for 2K. Oh well, it's their fault for being stupid.

[TempestBlayze]

Oh and how is someone who DOES NOT read forums going to know how this uninstall BS works? It personally wont affect me when I get the game but it is still a crock of shit.

[BlackPete]

Damn all this mess makes me so glad that I got rid of my PC copy so soon. If this kind of crap is going to continue, then PC gaming is officially dead to me.

[Zander]

I'm failing to see a problem here, I put the DVD in the drive, installed it, it activated and I play... whats the problem? If I reinstall windows or rebuild the system, I uninstall it.. then reinstall it...

Oh NOES!!

Maybe some of you whiners should go back to playing cards or board games if letting a game activate is a big fucking deal.

You can't possibly be this stupid, is this an attempt at sarcasm?

Ever had to rebuild a system due to mobo hardware failure or Windows becoming too unstable to do anything (like even load add/remove)? In either of these cases how will your solution help when you cannot properly uninstall according to the SecureRom procedure?

It won't.

[Fug]

You can't possibly be this stupid, is this an attempt at sarcasm?

Ever had to rebuild a system due to mobo hardware failure or Windows becoming too unstable to do anything (like even load add/remove)? In either of these cases how will your solution help when you cannot properly uninstall according to the SecureRom procedure?

It won't.

And if this happens there's a number for you to call to reset your key. Problem solved. This system doesn't seem effective but far from necessitating the hysteria.

[f1sh3r]

You can't possibly be this stupid, is this an attempt at sarcasm?

Ever had to rebuild a system due to mobo hardware failure or Windows becoming too unstable to do anything (like even load add/remove)? In either of these cases how will your solution help when you cannot properly uninstall according to the SecureRom procedure?

It won't.

it says it won't be a problem unless you go on an install string, not the random reinstall. they just suggest uninstalling as a way to avoid any possible issues.

[BabyJesus]

Like this going to stop anyone from stealing it. I bought the 360 version so I don't have to worry about it but these people need to stop with the lame assed copy protection.

[aj1pso]

Meh, this doesn't affect me. I've always been pirate =)

[Shodan2020]

Will it get to the point where I will need to uninstall everything when I revamp my system?

That's why you bought the PC version right??? :p

[Shodan2020]

You whiney little children. Back in my day, we didn't have fancy nancy copy protection like this. We had color coded wheels and were required to look through our manuals at certain pages for specific words to play our game. Oh, and don't me started on games you had to spend hours with just to get them to play on your pc even without the copy protection. Friggin Sierra Dynamix.

Dude, I'm still amazed by my Mattell Disc viewer. You know the red colored toy binoculars with the slide wheel you advance with a tug of that orange lever? :D

[dfr]

Found @ Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/08/22/2k-responds-to-bioshock-pc-copy-protection-issue-and-ignores-ps3/).
why would you need joystiq when that was quoted (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=937569&postcount=16) on page one of the other thread ? ppl should start reading ;)

[Satertek]

QQ more bitches, you brought this upon yourselves. there's no reason to have an issue with this copy protection unless you arrrrrr (http://youtube.com/watch?v=JiPnuuE60r8) a pirate.

You got it backwards. The pirates are already have the game without any protection at all. Only the people that paid for the game are having to deal with it.

yeah no doubt. page 2, word 3. and memory managers. if you wanna play this game you need a configuration, but if you wanna play that game you need another configuration. and red plastic cards to see hidden messages to enter into games to continue. oi oi oi.

I'd take those over this any day. Finding the matching pictures in the manual or spinning the wheel around to match all the symbols was even fun ;)

[51|RandoM]

Harsh joke, but still a joke.

Jokes are usually funny or witty, aren't they?


Now then someone explain to me why we have copy protection?

Casual copiers, duh. So many people... so not understanding how this stuff works.

[FreezaSama]

This probobly go down as the biggest "Install/Uninstall" fuck up since Myth 2.

I seem to recall a bug with the original Half-Life uninstall before they patched it where uninstalling removed the entire Program Files directory. Oops.

[Feltoar]

Posted on the 2K forums: http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=129949&postcount=341

Steam client update released
August 22, 2007, 11:42 am
Updates to the Steam Client have been released. The updates will be applied automatically when your Steam client is restarted. The specific changes include:
Steam Client
* Fixed uninstall/reinstall issue with Bioshock

[laggerific]

I'm failing to see a problem here, I put the DVD in the drive, installed it, it activated and I play... whats the problem? If I reinstall windows or rebuild the system, I uninstall it.. then reinstall it...

Oh NOES!!

Maybe some of you whiners should go back to playing cards or board games if letting a game activate is a big fucking deal.

I guess the problem is seen a couple of ways...if this becomes the norm, that means every time you want to rebuild your PC you have to uninstall the games, or call your overlords and humbly request that they grant your appeal.

Or if your system crashes and you have to rebuild their could be issues...sure you get a couple of activations, but there are valid reasons why those might fail.

If what they say is true, though, their activation system might reset that limit after a certain amount of time, and that this is just to ensure that a dormfull of people don't install one copy on everyones system over the course of a weekend, which seems reasonable. But, what happens in dorms is that one person downloads a cracked copy, then hosts it on a local server, and then everyone installs a copy anyway...

[Varsity]

Why can't they just TELL us these things?

[Hemalin]

Casual copiers, duh. So many people... so not understanding how this stuff works.

Casual copiers are foiled by the simplest of copy protection. This intrusive BS is overkill for them.

[TalkingOctopus]

I cannot install bioshock. I can't even get to the authentication part. The install process cannot connect to autoupdate and the support link is dead too. Unfortunately, you have to reinstall bioshock to try to update it again.

[Bahamut]

This copyright protection shit is exactly one of the most detracting aspects about the PC gaming industry, and has probably been a key player in driving me away from installing the games period. Incidents like this only prove why I have been drifting more to console gaming the past 5 years or so - at least they don't treat you like a criminal for the most part.

[Vandenh]

In 2007???

Shame on you 2K!!!!

The debate between 360 and PC version is settled.

[menage]

For a game which probably goes down in the bookjs as the best game ever (average rating) people are bitching a lot about copy protection and widescreen support.

"oh no I can't see two pixels" "Oh no I can't install it on 100 computers".

Everybody should buy two copys of this game. It's that good.

I've never had any negative experience with PC software. Only when I pirated it.

[Bahamut]

For a game which probably goes down in the bookjs as the best game ever (average rating) people are bitching a lot about copy protection and widescreen support.

"oh no I can't see two pixels" "Oh no I can't install it on 100 computers".

Everybody should buy two copys of this game. It's that good.

I've never had any negative experience with PC software. Only when I pirated it.

People rightfully bitch about copy protection bullshit. Why do you think people complain about DRM? Because it doesn't let you use what you purchased how you like, and intrudes on the usage of the product you purchase. I'm not advocating piracy here, but having to uninstall and reinstall just to play the game on a different computer is total bullshit.

I will purchase my copy of the game at some point when I can get the money, but the copyright crap guarantees that I will purchase the 360 one, no matter whatever other perks they decide to put on the PC one.

[menage]

People rightfully bitch about copy protection bullshit. Why do you think people complain about DRM? Because it doesn't let you use what you purchased how you like, and intrudes on the usage of the product you purchase. I'm not advocating piracy here, but having to uninstall and reinstall just to play the game on a different computer is total bullshit.

I can't understand why you would want the same game on different computers if it's only singelplayer. Only if you would want to share the game with all of your friends. which you can't on 360 or PC normally because you need the disk anyway.

I can see some cases when it might be annoying. But is this crap all people can bitch about when the game is this good. Half Life 2 had an even bigger protection thing with STEAM.

I'm making a gross generalisation here. But most people who bitch about probably can't find a crack. I know, I've been there.

This is not DRM by the way.

[Bahamut]

DRM is analogous to the situation we have here, which was my point - it restricts how we get to use the product we purchase, whereas previously there was no such restriction. My stance is purely philosophical here, but any sort of restriction raises a flag with me since once you accept a small encroachment on your current usage, companies will have every incentive to go another step further.

Also, it has been surmised many times that copyright protection has been hurting the PC gaming industry, since copyright protection tends to lock out those who wouldn't end up buying it anyway, and shuts down word of mouth or even potential sales from those who buys it out of love of the game after playing it. A supposedly stellar game like Bioshock only stands to lose from copyright protection since people have shown that they're willing to pay for good games.

[menage]

I get the idea behind it, sadly the world doesn't work that way and piracy forces company's to act in such ways. I used to pirate a lot of games I wouldn't buy anyway, I never bought one, I;m not a PC player. I just wanted a quick glance, play an hour and see what it was about. But I completed maybe 2 PC games in my life.


Also, it has been surmised many times that copyright protection has been hurting the PC gaming industry, since copyright protection tends to lock out those who wouldn't end up buying it anyway, and shuts down word of mouth or even potential sales from those who buys it out of love of the game after playing it.

I wonder how many people buy the game after playing it. I don't see that happening outside the hardcore.

[Bahamut]

I actually have done it a bunch of times, most notably with UT2k4 and Civilization 4 (that I can recall - I know I've done it with others too). I generally don't buy titles I don't know much about from word of mouth, and I don't judge by a handful of reviews or download demos since I've gotten burned enough times to know better...but then again, I'm probably considered one of the hardcore. But I don't think a casual gamer would bother with paying for a PC game unless it was that compelling (The Sims comes to mind), and no amount of copy protection or lack thereof would probably change that.

[Vandenh]

I can't understand why you would want the same game on different computers if it's only singelplayer

Play it, finish it and sell it on eBay?

[menage]

Play it, finish it and sell it on eBay?

Lol, Okay, so publishers should take that into consideration. You selling your second hand games to get a buck back.

[pizzatime]

All you babies always get overworked about something. Learn to use a computer and stop humping your consoles you fanboys.

[Ridlin]

I installed the game last night. No problem. It only took SEVEN HOURS. SEVEN FREAKING HOURS of installing it over and over again because it would time out while trying to download the patch. Hitting the start over button on the auto-update is a joke (no internet activity), but starting the install all over again seemed to help kick it off.

I was so pissed off I don't ever want to buy a 2K product again. Hell I may never buy a PC game again. Now I need to update my nvidia drivers, and probably direct x as well.

And don't give me this 'I just don't know how to use a computer' crap. I've been playing PC games since the C64.

PC Gaming isn't dying, it's killing itself.

[Hydroeric]

I'm failing to see a problem here, I put the DVD in the drive, installed it, it activated and I play... whats the problem? If I reinstall windows or rebuild the system, I uninstall it.. then reinstall it...

Oh NOES!!

Maybe some of you whiners should go back to playing cards or board games if letting a game activate is a big fucking deal.

My thoughts exactly. What is the big fucking deal? I even installed it on my laptop. At worst one of my rigs becomes unusable to the point that I can't uninstall so then I have to call to clear an activation. Man who the hell am I going to live with that...my finger is already aching just thinking about dialing the phone.

There are bigger problems here people, like the pet population. Have your pets spayed or neutered.

[Oblivion]

Just to clear it up, bioshock is still uncracked.

[bjornbarspingvinen]

Is this really that big of a problem ? No.

[fiercey]

I noticed people on 2K's forums have been getting banned left and right. I looked up some of their posts and couldn't see anything but complaints that said things like "Now I know why people pirate games" (banned!) or "This will only affect the honest customer" (banned!).

I haven't seen a game company have so much animosity for their own customers in a long, long while. I know one thing, I was going to buy this game this week but I won't shell over once cent to play it now. I'm all for doing the right thing and supporting game development, but not when they act like this.

-f

[menage]

I haven't seen a game company have so much animosity for their own customers in a long, long while. I know one thing, I was going to buy this game this week but I won't shell over once cent to play it now. I'm all for doing the right thing and supporting game development, but not when they act like this.

In all fairness. Irrational games is not the same as 2K as a whole. The creators and publishers are fifferent things.

And I want more of these original of enormously competent games, so hell. I already bought it. And everybody shouid (note, I have the 360 version)

[51|RandoM]

Casual copiers are foiled by the simplest of copy protection. This intrusive BS is overkill for them.

What intrusive BS? I haven't noticed any copy protection whatsoever in my copy of Bioshock.

[beefyjr]

This probobly go down as the biggest "Install/Uninstall" fuck up since Myth 2.
You mean the one that wiped your entire hard drive? Having problems installing something isn't nearly as bad as losing all of your shit. It doesn't get worse than the Myth II bug. They recalled it, for fuck's sake!

Harsh joke, but still a joke.
From where I'm sitting, it looked more like a completely unwarranted insult.

[roboninja]

What intrusive BS? I haven't noticed any copy protection whatsoever in my copy of Bioshock.
Having to uninstall to not use up your "2 install limit"? Intrusive. I usually only have to reinstall after a PC failure that makes it impossible to boot into Windows. Hard to uninstall then. So I have to call Mommy and ask if I can play my game I paid $50 for. Bullshit.
Not letting you run the game with Task Manager open? Fucking bullshit. Not only that, but even shutting down Task Manager does not solve the problem, I have to reboot to try to play again. If that is not intrusive, I am afraid of what it would take for you to call it so.
And this stopping the "casual copier" is such a straw man. these people can be stopped any number of ways that do not involve this. Plus, the most casual pirate is the downloader, and they are unaffected. That is, if the cracked versions I have seen floating around work (I assume they do).

[lockwoodx]

Well this news convinced me not to buy the game, tho I'll still be playing it.

Hard drives brick all the time and if that means it's going to inconvience me more than simply reinstalling a ghost image, then I'll do what ever it takes to avoid the inconvienences.

[MasterKwan]

I have no problem with this. '2k wants to make a buck and stop piracy, I just want to play a game I paid for. '2k's looking for a crack free window in which most sales will take place and it looks like this scheme has worked so far.

I had to install mine twice, the first time wouldn't pass the CD check becauce one of my DVD drives doesn't do copy protection. Other than that, it works fine. People with problems downloading the patch are probably blocking the installer with their software firewalls.

99% of the people who're bitching about this are likely to be the ones that will run into this limit by lending the game to friends or selling it. To me, this means the game won't use usable sold used (which again I have no problem with, used games are theft plain and simple). What '2k needs to add is a $20 unlock fee so, when it's re-sold, the licence can be reset with a credit card. Then the games can be sold used.

I run my version with Task manager running AND my debugger for the software I sell. You know, I suspect the fact it runs in 32 bit WOW on Win64 hides all the other programs I'm running from it.

[BlackPete]

There's a term for the apologists: Enablers.

That is, they blame the victims. That's my whole beef with DRM in general.

[MadHiro]

99% of the people who're bitching about this are likely to be the ones that will run into this limit by lending the game to friends or selling it. To me, this means the game won't use usable sold used (which again I have no problem with, used games are theft plain and simple). What '2k needs to add is a $20 unlock fee so, when it's re-sold, the licence can be reset with a credit card. Then the games can be sold used.

How in God's name is selling something that you have bought theft? Is there some special property of a video game that makes it less mine when I've paid for it than a chair, or a book? Does Ikea get to charge someone I sell my table to a "Re-Buyers Fee"? I'm really hoping that you were being sarcastic and just failing to get it across.

[MadHiro]

I can't understand why you would want the same game on different computers if it's only singelplayer. Only if you would want to share the game with all of your friends. which you can't on 360 or PC normally because you need the disk anyway.

I can see some cases when it might be annoying. But is this crap all people can bitch about when the game is this good. Half Life 2 had an even bigger protection thing with STEAM.

I'm making a gross generalisation here. But most people who bitch about probably can't find a crack. I know, I've been there.

This is not DRM by the way.

My home computer, my office computer, my sound computer in the theatre (because playing an FPS with a theatre's sound system is an experiance that is truly awesome.)

Three computers that are mine. Three places I would want it installed. The reason I'll be cracking the game.

[menage]

which again I have no problem with, used games are theft plain and simple

Ehm???

my office computer,

Ehm? Get to work:P

I can understand some frustation, but I can't seriously believe someone plays the game on 3 computers with different saves. (essentailly you play the game 3 times at once). I don't see a big problem in not playing it on one of those, but that's me off course. (maybe buy a laptop, so you can take it anywhere:P).

It's still no validation for cracking the game (unless you bought it, then I don't care).

This whole thing is to prevent people from downloading the thing and cracking it. Which is a valid point.

[Beelzebud]

I played the game for about 6 hours yesterday.

I never once noticed the copy protection.

And yeah. I'm calling bullshit on the "I need it in my car, work, and home" argument. Get a fucking life.

[MasterKwan]

Used game sales only profit the reseller and not '2k. The law says you have the right to resell the games, the law doesn't say that '2k has to let the new owner play it though.

It's not really theft, I know but, it is a sale that doesn't help '2k at all. I'd like to see them do well and make more games like this.

[BlackPete]

Used game sales only profit the reseller and not '2k. The law says you have the right to resell the games, the law doesn't say that '2k has to let the new owner play it though.

It's not really theft, I know but, it is a sale that doesn't help '2k at all. I'd like to see them do well and make more games like this.

Doesn't matter one bit. You can't make an exception for 2K without applying the same general rule to every single manufacturer out there.

Imagine saying the following: Think of the poor refridgerator companies! Don't sell your used fridges, junk them!

The law is the law. It doesn't favor anyone in general (without getting into a huge political debate).

[lockwoodx]

How in God's name is selling something that you have bought theft? Is there some special property of a video game that makes it less mine when I've paid for it than a chair, or a book? Does Ikea get to charge someone I sell my table to a "Re-Buyers Fee"? I'm really hoping that you were being sarcastic and just failing to get it across.

You win the thread

[MasterKwan]

'2k has the technical means to enforce a "no used sales and play" now. They didn't before. I don't know it they're going to enforce it considering how whiny internet people are but, they could enforce it if they choose to. They could also do what I suggested and have a flat $20 unlock fee for people who go over the license limits, no questions asked. That's what I'd implement. "Sure buy a used copy, you just need to pay us $20 to unlock it".

Then you can re-sell the game if you want, as is your legal right but, the guy buying it might not be able to play it.

[TrackZero]

PC Gamers....RAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(I can't find the Doc Doom pic, sigh.)

[Bahamut]

"How whiny internet people are"? It's called exercising your privileges as a consumer. Mindsets like yours is what makes companies so bold as to pull stuff like a rootkit disaster.

[Babbster]

Question: How does this prevent you from reselling your copy of Bioshock if uninstalling resets the key and allows a new installation? Unless you were planning on just leaving it installed and using your NOCD crack (assuming one arrives, which it will) to continue playing, thus making your "sale" illegal?

[Narcissus]

Should have spotted this post before trying to submit it as news!

I'll stick it here anyway as there're some interesting links:

"Amongst a slew of technical problems (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=42), particularly related to running the game on Vista, one difficulty keeps rearing an ugly head: Bioshock's anti-piracy protection, our old friend SecuROM.

In addition to the problems of its previous incarnations, -- including covertly installing rootkits (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6682&highlight=rootkit), provoking anti-virus software and preventing installation, and generally malfunctioning to the point that legitimate users must resort to the work of pirates, -- the new version that comes with Bioshock limits owners to 2 installations (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5527&page=12) (official response at the bottom of the linked page).

Working as intended, users should be able to un-install and re-install to their heart's content. However, the real world is rarely ideal, and a great number of people are being told they've already exceeded their limit (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6719). Calling 2K's US support number, per the prescribed advice for such eventualities, has not helped gamers. The number is not even connected (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6263&highlight=phone+support)!

Should users scour the Internet for a working number, customers are sent between 2K and SecuROM without resolution (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6684&highlight=phone+support), leaving many people with very shiny, $60 coasters."

[KingGorilla]

I noticed people on 2K's forums have been getting banned left and right. I looked up some of their posts and couldn't see anything but complaints that said things like "Now I know why people pirate games" (banned!) or "This will only affect the honest customer" (banned!).

I haven't seen a game company have so much animosity for their own customers in a long, long while. I know one thing, I was going to buy this game this week but I won't shell over once cent to play it now. I'm all for doing the right thing and supporting game development, but not when they act like this.

-f

It is StarForce all over again. 2k's developers and partners should be pretty pissed. Ubisoft and Midway robbed their partners out of a great deal of money because of StarForce. And Apparently 2K did not get the memo that pc gamers, and gamers in general tend to sour at the prospect of these kinds of copy protection.

[Narcissus]

What intrusive BS? I haven't noticed any copy protection whatsoever in my copy of Bioshock.
Steam has it too.

[Narcissus]

I'm failing to see a problem here, I put the DVD in the drive, installed it, it activated and I play... whats the problem? If I reinstall windows or rebuild the system, I uninstall it.. then reinstall it...

Oh NOES!!

Maybe some of you whiners should go back to playing cards or board games if letting a game activate is a big fucking deal.
The uninstall/reinstall is not working for some, and there have been situations where uninstalling hasn't been possible (like needing to use System Restore).

It isn't all clueless idiots.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I seem to recall a bug with the original Half-Life uninstall before they patched it where uninstalling removed the entire Program Files directory. Oops.



Argh! I can personally vouch for that horrible bug existing.

*cries at the memories*


I was strongly considering a new gaming PC, but this activation "protection" has me reconsidering that purchase. I may go back to my old plan of a cheap iMac and a 360 afterall.

[jpublic]

See, this is why I went with Steam. I don't have to deal with this shit, Steam does it all for me.

Digital Distribution just won the battle with me.

[Narcissus]

See, this is why I went with Steam. I don't have to deal with this shit, Steam does it all for me.

Digital Distribution just won the battle with me.SecuROM and the 2 installation limit is present in the Steam version too.

[BlackPete]

Question: How does this prevent you from reselling your copy of Bioshock if uninstalling resets the key and allows a new installation?

It's already been reported that this is not working for some people. Probably because 2k's servers were down at the time of uninstall.

[Babbster]

It's already been reported that this is not working for some people. Probably because 2k's servers were down at the time of uninstall.
It makes me wonder if their servers were down NOT because so many people bought the game and installed it, but rather were down because every douche and his cousin felt the need to the test the system - "Hey, they say that doing [x} could cause a problem. I should do [x] just for the pure hell of it and then whine on forums for the next month!" I can't think of any other good reason for so many [reported] people to be uninstalling the game so quickly (unless they hated the game itself).

Note: For the record, I think this kind of copy protection is lame, and particularly so if they don't have the infrastructure to support the initial release (one of the reasons I didn't install Steam or play HL2 until two weeks ago) - I'm certainly not a defender of software "features" that screw over legitimate customers. That said, I think some folks are making Mt. Everest out of Pike's Peak...

[Narcissus]

That said, I think some folks are making Mt. Everest out of Pike's Peak...
Take a look around the official forum. It's quite the shit-storm.

The frequent reinstalls are due to the quality of the port to PC. Five minutes on the forum will tell you that they aren't problems that can be dismissed as under spec. hardware or user-incompetence.

With one problem mounting on another, and ridiculous DRM restrictions thrown into the mix, I think people are justifiably very pissed off.

[Murph the Surf]

I wonder how many people buy the game after playing it. I don't see that happening outside the hardcore.

You're probably right, but I am one who "received" a version of GTR2 for free and then decided to buy after tryin it. Not one of my proudest admissions...

I usually wait untill update one or two comes out for a new game, that way I avoid most of the major hassles of "first-itis".

[Sloth]

SecuROM and the 2 installation limit is present in the Steam version too.

i thought they patched it out today

[Narcissus]

i thought they patched it out today
Where did you read that?

[BlackPete]

i thought they patched it out today

They tried. The patch didn't work though... sorry, don't have a link handy, I think I read it on digg.com.

[Narcissus]

They tried. The patch didn't work though... sorry, don't have a link handy, I think I read it on digg.com.
Hah. That's terrible if true.

[Babbster]

Hah. That's terrible if true.
What, that the patch didn't work or that someone would consider Digg a valid source of information?

[Narcissus]

On Steam's Bioshock page (http://storefront.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=game&AppId=7670&cc=US) you can now find:Note: Contains SecuROM copy control software. Installations limited to five PCs per license
That's one problem lessened for some customers, only an angry forum-full to go!

[BlackPete]

On Steam's Bioshock page (http://storefront.steampowered.com/v/index.php?area=game&AppId=7670&cc=US) you can now find:
That's one problem lessened for some customers, only an angry forum-full to go!

So the patch actually increased the number of installs to 5, up from 2?

Stellar job, that! ;)

[Narcissus]

This scandal is snowballing. CNN are supposed to be picking it up. They're asking for first-hand experiences.

Don't you love it when Internet whiners find a voice under a big multi-national? Warms my heart it does!

[Narcissus]

More whiner success stories (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6979). The reinstallation limit has been increased for all copies of Bioshock, not only Steam. They also plan to release an application to free up previously used installs.

[BlackPete]

More whiner success stories (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6979). The reinstallation limit has been increased for all copies of Bioshock, not only Steam. They also plan to release an application to free up previously used installs.

Humm... I'm really curious about that so-called deactivation application. From your link, we have:


We are also preparing a new “revoke application” that will allow you to de-authorize computers so that you may move the game to another computer without "using up" one of these activations. This increase in the limit will cover most users' issues, and the revoke application should alleviate remaining concerns.

Then later on...

Q: What happens if my computer is lost, stolen, or has a complete crash? How do I get that activation back, since I didn’t uninstall the game?

A: You can still install the game 4 more times (or however many times remaining to your limit of 5) without a problem. Please contact support if you have reached your limit.

So I fail to see the point of that application, if you can already deauthorize via uninstallation? And it sounds like the application doesn't even solve the crash/stolen/reformat problem. :confused:

[Hemalin]

What intrusive BS? I haven't noticed any copy protection whatsoever in my copy of Bioshock.

So you agree that these harder copy protection schemes are overkill for casual copiers. I'm glad we can agree.

[Narcissus]

So I fail to see the point of that application, if you can already deauthorize via uninstallation? And it sounds like the application doesn't even solve the crash/stolen/reformat problem. :confused:
According to many over there, reclaiming your allotted installs is a myth. My interpretation of the new information is that, for now, the solution is to call support, and at some undisclosed date an app. will be released to automate the process.

[KingGorilla]

So you agree that these harder copy protection schemes are overkill for casual copiers. I'm glad we can agree.
Aside from the fact that it is US federal law that consumers be allowed to make back-up copies of the software that they buy?

[Hemalin]

Aside from the fact that it is US federal law that consumers be allowed to make back-up copies of the software that they buy?

So all copy protection is illegal? Sweet, where's a lawyer when you need one.

[BlackPete]

Aside from the fact that it is US federal law that consumers be allowed to make back-up copies of the software that they buy?

Speaking of federals... imagine if some government employee decides to install Bioshock on his work machine -- and installs securROM in the process which is considered a rootkit by some anti-virus and spyware programs.

This reminds me of the good old Sony rootkit days.

[KingGorilla]

So all copy protection is illegal? Sweet, where's a lawyer when you need one.

Not illegal, only if it eliminates your ability to create back-ups of your software. Microsoft was taken to task by the FCC and congress with this and Windows 95, I believe. Basically it is the government's way of saying, it is established that it is illegal to copy a movie, CD, or piece of software and distribute it...leave it to Us(the government) to regulate that.

I look forward to when the current FCC commissioner is shown the fucking door with her stance on digital, "soft" back-ups of media. Her stances on backing up movies or CDs onto hard drives, for your own use, are arcane and uninformed.

[Bahamut]

Not illegal, only if it eliminates your ability to create back-ups of your software. Microsoft was taken to task by the FCC and congress with this and Windows 95, I believe. Basically it is the government's way of saying, it is established that it is illegal to copy a movie, CD, or piece of software and distribute it...leave it to Us(the government) to regulate that.

I look forward to when the current FCC commissioner is shown the fucking door with her stance on digital, "soft" back-ups of media. Her stances on backing up movies or CDs onto hard drives, for your own use, are arcane and uninformed.

Even better, once our current FCC Commissioner Chairman gets shown the door. He was chosen by Bush, and what a surprise, he's incredibly pro-special interests. One of the many underreported screwups of Bush :(