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TheBigL
08-22-2007, 11:41 AM
The PS3's ability to track the position of an object in 3D space using the new Eye Toy offers up more potential for motion-sensing gaming than the Wii Remote, Sony told us yesterday.

When asked how this compared to the motion tracking opportunities offered by the Wii Remote, he went on the say: "In Eye of Judgement it's all about summoning the creatures. With other games it'll be about creating a whole different dynamic so, in a way, you could say there is much more potential and ability in our technology."

Taken From: GameRadar (http://www.gamesradar.com/us/ps3/game/news/article.jsp?sectionId=1006&articleId=2007082116333230023&releaseId=20060314115917309058)

Yu-Gi-Oh! comes to life!

Lothair
08-22-2007, 11:47 AM
"Sony is awesome, Sony says"

violentp
08-22-2007, 11:52 AM
"Sony is awesome, Sony says"

Well a camera does have more potential than a wiimote, wouldn't you agree?

Gorvi
08-22-2007, 11:56 AM
Well, it could, but unless they start packing the thing in with PS3s pretty damn quick, it won't have nearly the impact.

Doctor Setebos
08-22-2007, 11:57 AM
Well, it could, but unless they start packing the thing in with PS3s pretty damn quick, it won't have nearly the impact.That's the trick, isn't it? Every Wii comes with a remote. Not every PS3 will have an Eye Toy.

Flatpicker
08-22-2007, 11:57 AM
I thought that you would need 2 cameras to accurately deal with depth perception.
I couldn't see althought I would like to, how to translate forward and backward hand movements seen by a camera into actual controller input.

violentp
08-22-2007, 11:59 AM
The $60 price point for the camera and game is a hell of a way to get them out there.

BlackPete
08-22-2007, 12:00 PM
I thought that you would need 2 cameras to accurately deal with depth perception.
I couldn't see althought I would like to, how to translate forward and backward hand movements seen by a camera into actual controller input.

It could probably be faked by analyzing the scaling of the object over time. However, this is really really really difficult to program accurately as objects also rotate over time which can skew the scaling results.

Bone
08-22-2007, 12:02 PM
"Sony is awesome, Sony says"
Like that old Penny Arcade comic about game journalism: "How awesome IS the EyeToy?" "SO awesome".

Really they are fooling themselves. While there IS potential for the Eyetoy, it is not suited for accurate motion control of a game. Using image recognition to separate a gamer (with a variety of skin, hair and clothing colors, not to mention varying sizes) from his environment (parent's basement, love dungeon, etc) is dodgy at best.

Objectively, the accelerometer + position triangulation of the Wiimote makes it ideally suited for the task of motion control, while the EyeToy clearly corners the market on card-reading, video chat, etc.

Nura
08-22-2007, 12:07 PM
Well, it's just a matter of time before microsoft makes something similar? i mean, they already have that webcam for the 360 where you can put your face on various gamemodels in rainbow six: vegas for example. making it reconize various barcodes shouldn't be so hard?

Gorvi
08-22-2007, 12:07 PM
Like that old Penny Arcade comic about game journalism: "How awesome IS the EyeToy?" "SO awesome".

Really they are fooling themselves. While there IS potential for the Eyetoy, it is not suited for accurate motion control of a game. Using image recognition to separate a gamer (with a variety of skin, hair and clothing colors, not to mention varying sizes) from his environment (parent's basement, love dungeon, etc) is dodgy at best.

Objectively, the accelerometer + position triangulation of the Wiimote makes it ideally suited for the task of motion control, while the EyeToy clearly corners the market on card-reading, video chat, etc.
If I remember correctly, they explained that you'd just hold a colored stick (something neon green for example, so that it stands out) that would act like the Wiimote for pointing. The camera would only have to pick up on the stick to detect where you're pointing.

Norse
08-22-2007, 12:12 PM
The original EyeToy had potential and was technologically advanced when it was released. Didn't really do much. Some cool games will arrive, but since not everyone will have this camera we won't see any major games that takes full advantage of this technology.

Talon-
08-22-2007, 12:13 PM
Hahahahaha

Gott
08-22-2007, 12:15 PM
Who cares??? It's a freaking camera!! They've been around forever!!

What is possibly so cool that you can do with this camera that is so different that would warrant such a comment from Sony???

The whole basis of this thread was to make fun of sony's dumb arrogant comment! We already know by now that everything Sony does has immense potential and it is the best ever created right?

Didn't this eye toy thing already fail on the PS2?

violentp
08-22-2007, 12:16 PM
Hahahahaha

Eloquent and informative. Quite a service sir.

pseudopseudo
08-22-2007, 12:17 PM
This same story's been rehashed every six months or so, it feels like.

The Eye of Judgement didn't look that cool, if you ask me. Besides, I'll be wowed when something in real life looks as good as that photoshopped picture. *lol*

Evil Avnovice
08-22-2007, 12:19 PM
Eyetoy didn't do much for PS2, so unless this new version fixes those problems for PS3, I kind of doubt it.

DaXIthR
08-22-2007, 12:24 PM
DaXIthR has more potential than Ron Jeremy because he wakes up with priapism every morning.

DaXIthR has more potential than Shakespeare because he can hold a pen.

All this says is that Sony is holding Nintendo's success as a benchmark to gauge their own. That's the mindset and attitude of someone destined to finish second (or in this case, third). Sony once again showing they've no tact and less class.

Whoever their Mephistopheles was, their luck ran around circa 2005.

Doctor Setebos
08-22-2007, 12:25 PM
The $60 price point for the camera and game is a hell of a way to get them out there.Only for those who actually want it (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/08/01).

FreezaSama
08-22-2007, 12:27 PM
Well a camera does have more potential than a wiimote, wouldn't you agree?

Probably, but the question is, do people care? A lot of people seem awfully happy with the Wii. And a camera is certainly no reason to buy a $600 system when you look at the quality of most of the Eyetoy games from last gen.

violentp
08-22-2007, 12:27 PM
Only for those who actually want it (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/08/01).

Oh, it'll sell.

Stormwatcher
08-22-2007, 12:30 PM
Eloquent and informative. Quite a service sir.

He's right, though. All that stupid comment deserves is a laugh.

violentp
08-22-2007, 12:35 PM
He's right, though. All that stupid comment deserves is a laugh.

And which quote exactly would that be?

Chameleo
08-22-2007, 12:38 PM
And which quote exactly would that be?

probably the original sony quote.

and dont forget, there is a tiny 1megapixel camera inside each wii-remote!

Wedge
08-22-2007, 12:39 PM
The PS3's ability to track the position of an object in 3D space using the new Eye Toy offers up more potential for motion-sensing gaming than the Wii Remote, Sony told us yesterday.

Walk the walk, bitch.

violentp
08-22-2007, 12:40 PM
probably the original sony quote.

and dont forget, there is a tiny 1megapixel camera inside each wii-remote!

I personally think it's true. I think a camera does have more potential than a wiimote. I'm not saying that the potential indicates utilization but more is possible with a camera than an infrared pointing device.

Chameleo
08-22-2007, 12:46 PM
I personally think it's true. I think a camera does have more potential than a wiimote. I'm not saying that the potential indicates utilization but more is possible with a camera than an infrared pointing device.

there might be potential there - but its unlikely to be utilized. for the camera to sense you in 3D space, you need to be wearing/holding something special - that it can track. It also needs to be able to take photos at 60FPS of what you're doing. So you have to be wearing special gloves, or holding something in your hands that it can track.....

dunno if thats such a huge advantage over the wii-remote - it actually would line up to be pretty similar. cept that less than 50% of PS3 owners will actually have it.

violentp
08-22-2007, 12:51 PM
there might be potential there - but its unlikely to be utilized. for the camera to sense you in 3D space, you need to be wearing/holding something special - that it can track. It also needs to be able to take photos at 60FPS of what you're doing. So you have to be wearing special gloves, or holding something in your hands that it can track.....

dunno if thats such a huge advantage over the wii-remote - it actually would line up to be pretty similar. cept that less than 50% of PS3 owners will actually have it.

Unlikelihood is pure speculation. Also I don't think the procedure requires to be as complicated as the above statement implies.

Gott
08-22-2007, 12:52 PM
Eloquent and informative. Quite a service sir.

Honestly...i think the wiimote has more potential. The Wiimote can be almost an infinite amount of things. Look at all the different things you can use it for it for on its own, not to mention the peripherals that are coming out that use the wiimote such as the wii wheel and the wii zapper, as well as more to come.

What does a camera do for you? It sits there and broadcasts whatever is put in front of it. Granted the whole eye of judgement thing is a nifty idea, but not practical. Holding cards in front of a camera doesn't seem like something i would be even remotely interested in doing.

That Penny Arcade comic about it is funny as hell. Great find.

violentp
08-22-2007, 12:58 PM
Honestly...i think the wiimote has more potential. The Wiimote can be almost an infinite amount of things. Look at all the different things you can use it for it for on its own, not to mention the peripherals that are coming out that use the wiimote such as the wii wheel and the wii zapper, as well as more to come.

What does a camera do for you? It sits there and broadcasts whatever is put in front of it. Granted the whole eye of judgement thing is a nifty idea, but not practical. Holding cards in front of a camera doesn't seem like something i would be even remotely interested in doing.

That Penny Arcade comic about it is funny as hell. Great find.

Ironically, I thought your whole first paragraph was sarcasm. I'm not attempting to take anything away from the Wiimote, but it basically does one thing. The peripherals alter the way you hold and interface but it really only has one function.

With a camera you can track multiple points and in the case of EoJ, it reads specific data and translates accordingly. There are multiple input procedures when it comes to a camera while the Wiimote sends 1.

But as I implied before, this does not in any way mean the EyeToy will be better utilized than the Wii. In a matter of hardware, I see a camera being the device with much more potential.

Gott
08-22-2007, 01:00 PM
what is some of this potential? Just curious where you see this eye toy going...

Doctor Setebos
08-22-2007, 01:00 PM
Oh, it'll sell.It's a game that requires more than one person to be in the same room playing a collectible card game.

It won't sell nearly as well as you seem to think it will.

violentp
08-22-2007, 01:02 PM
It's a game that requires more than one person to be in the same room playing a collectible card game.

It won't sell nearly as well as you seem to think it will.

It plays online. Yes it will.

UnderHero5
08-22-2007, 01:02 PM
It's a game that requires more than one person to be in the same room playing a collectible card game.

It won't sell nearly as well as you seem to think it will.

Well it DOES have single player... and online play.
I'm not saying it will sell great, but it doesn't require another person in the room. Though that will be the most fun way to play (that's true with all games though, imo).

Gott
08-22-2007, 01:04 PM
It plays online. Yes it will.

So are you buying this thing Violent69?

violentp
08-22-2007, 01:04 PM
what is some of this potential? Just curious where you see this eye toy going...

I don't know where Sony is gonna take it. For all I know, they totally fuck it up. What I do know is that a camera can track a pointer(as a Wii does) and also has other functions. Any other function beyond doing what a wiimote can do I consider as having more potential. Even if it's simply taking pictures.

bapenguin
08-22-2007, 01:06 PM
remember Microsoft already has a patent on the spacial cam recognition stuff. They even showed it off already 2 years ago. In a sense Sony is right about potential. A camera system provides no limits to movement as well as styles of movement.

violentp
08-22-2007, 01:06 PM
So are you buying this thing Violent69?

I'll tell you honestly, I wasn't. I've never played a card battle game in my life and I found the game to be somewhat gimmicky. When I saw the pricepoint, I decided I was, primarily for the camera. I love what they're doing with the camera in the new Burnout. I was gonna buy it for that.

Gott
08-22-2007, 01:08 PM
what are they doing with the camera in Burnout?

The idea is cool...reminds me of battle chess or something. But it just seems way too involved for me.

Gott
08-22-2007, 01:09 PM
On the Camera subject...they need to do more of that face mapping like they did in Rainbow 6 on the 360. Imagine if they set that up on GTA? How money would that be???

violentp
08-22-2007, 01:09 PM
remember Microsoft already has a patent on the spacial cam recognition stuff. They even showed it off already 2 years ago. In a sense Sony is right about potential. A camera system provides no limits to movement as well as styles of movement.

This is exactly what I think. I do think that it's not beyond Sony to fuck it up royally, but on paper it's pretty sound.

violentp
08-22-2007, 01:11 PM
what are they doing with the camera in Burnout?

The idea is cool...reminds me of battle chess or something. But it just seems way too involved for me.

The new Burnout is supposedly going to have a very streamlined multiplayer component. What they are doing with the camera is while racing with friends or whoever, if you run them off the road or make them wreck or whatnot, it will take a picture of their face as the crash happens and paste it for everyone to see.

Very simple concept but damn if it ain't right up my alley.

KidCactus
08-22-2007, 01:12 PM
remember Microsoft already has a patent on the spacial cam recognition stuff.
The system Microsoft patented required two cameras though, right?

Hitoriga
08-22-2007, 01:18 PM
remember Microsoft already has a patent on the spacial cam recognition stuff. They even showed it off already 2 years ago. In a sense Sony is right about potential. A camera system provides no limits to movement as well as styles of movement.

Microsoft's patent is using 2 cameras, Sony is using one.

Gott
08-22-2007, 01:19 PM
The new Burnout is supposedly going to have a very streamlined multiplayer component. What they are doing with the camera is while racing with friends or whoever, if you run them off the road or make them wreck or whatnot, it will take a picture of their face as the crash happens and paste it for everyone to see.

Very simple concept but damn if it ain't right up my alley.

Oh ok...they do that in a few games now. Command and Conquer on the 360 is one of them. I was hoping it was something cooler...

TheFlyingOrc
08-22-2007, 01:20 PM
Oh, it'll sell.

No, no it won't. For these things to succeed at the level described in the OP, they'd need to hit 50% market penetration. They'll be lucky to sell 500k over the system lifetime.

violentp
08-22-2007, 01:21 PM
Oh ok...they do that in a few games now. Command and Conquer on the 360 is one of them. I was hoping it was something cooler...

In game feeds are pretty much standard I'm sure. When it comes to original usage, well, EoJ pretty much covers that.

TheFlyingOrc
08-22-2007, 01:21 PM
I personally think it's true. I think a camera does have more potential than a wiimote. I'm not saying that the potential indicates utilization but more is possible with a camera than an infrared pointing device.
Because the invention of the PC camera did more to revolutionize the PC than the mouse did.

The Wiimote is a mouse, the camera is a...camera. It has tons of uses, but not USEFUL uses.

violentp
08-22-2007, 01:24 PM
No, no it won't. For these things to succeed at the level described in the OP, they'd need to hit 50% market penetration. They'll be lucky to sell 500k over the system lifetime.

I think this thing will sell. I'm not basing this on the fact that economics explains that certain percentages versus install base unit ratios....fuck all that shit. All I'm saying is that a high quality camera with an innovative game is not going to bomb. The term bomb is relative so I find it a moot point to discuss. I just don't think it's going to be a Genji is all.

violentp
08-22-2007, 01:26 PM
Because the invention of the PC camera did more to revolutionize the PC than the mouse did.

The Wiimote is a mouse, the camera is a...camera. It has tons of uses, but not USEFUL uses.

So you think a pointer is capable of more than a visual inputter? And let's not make the PC/Console comparison because the rules change then. I ask purely from a technological standpoint. No companies, no previous trends.

Venkman
08-22-2007, 01:29 PM
Probably, but the question is, do people care? A lot of people seem awfully happy with the Wii. And a camera is certainly no reason to buy a $600 system when you look at the quality of most of the Eyetoy games from last gen.

The quality of the eyetoy games is about on par with the Wii games so far.

The only thing that has me excited on the Wii is Metroid Prime 3- which looks to actually use the Wiimote in a more developed way than the coutless amounts of cheap ass mini-games and gimmicky gameplay currently out for the system.

Chameleo
08-22-2007, 01:31 PM
Unlikelihood is pure speculation. Also I don't think the procedure requires to be as complicated as the above statement implies.

yeah it does have to be as complicated as "the above statement implies".

you were replying to me - why did you have to say 'the above statement implies'?....!? as if you can't deign talk to me for being too elite!


aaaanyways, the wii-mote senses with a camera as well - cept its built into the wii remote. it takes a picture of the sensor bar 60 times a second. that way it can track your movement.

for the camera to work, it just has to go in the opposite direction. i.e. the camera takes a picture of YOU 60 times a second. but the camera can't just take a picture of a person - people look different all over the world. it needs something universally applied to track motion.... i.e. a special set of gloves with reflector points on the knuckles - or a glow stick, like someone said.... but the glowstick would have to be pretty big for it to track the movement....

sony ran a patent a while back of a controller with the recognize points built into it - a SIXAXIS with sensor bar-like capabilities built into it. this is very possible, and probably the most likely way they will capture motion with the eyetoy.

51|RandoM
08-22-2007, 01:31 PM
Sony interviews feel like an endless game of whack-a-mole. Ask enough questions and eventually you come up with a whackable mole of a response.

violentp
08-22-2007, 01:35 PM
yeah it does have to be as complicated as "the above statement implies".

you were replying to me - why did you have to say 'the above statement implies'?....!? as if you can't deign talk to me for being too elite!


aaaanyways, the wii-mote senses with a camera as well - cept its built into the wii remote. it takes a picture of the sensor bar 60 times a second. that way it can track your movement.

for the camera to work, it just has to go in the opposite direction. i.e. the camera takes a picture of YOU 60 times a second. but the camera can't just take a picture of a person - people look different all over the world. it needs something universally applied to track motion.... i.e. a special set of gloves with reflector points on the knuckles - or a glow stick, like someone said.... but the glowstick would have to be pretty big for it to track the movement....

sony ran a patent a while back of a controller with the recognize points built into it - a SIXAXIS with sensor bar-like capabilities built into it. this is very possible, and probably the most likely way they will capture motion with the eyetoy.

Easy cowboy, I meant nothing by using the word implies. All I'm saying is that people are being paid plenty of money to uncomplicate current technology routines. This may be a sound plan between you and I but I highly doubt it's the only way it can be done. This has nothing to do with you personally or your knowledge of motion detecting devices, it's simply a matter of progression.

KidCactus
08-22-2007, 01:38 PM
There's a video on the European Playstation Store now, showing off three new games for the Playstation Eye. Or rather two games and one interactive aquarium.

Bydo_Empire
08-22-2007, 01:39 PM
Other shocking new headlines blow the roof off of gaming journalism:

"Microsoft says 360 better than PS3."
"Nintendo says Mario Galaxy is Game of the Year."
"Bungie says Halo 3 'Best Game Evar'."
"Sony says GTA IV To Run Best On PS3."
"Microsoft says GTA IV To Run Best On 360."

Chameleo
08-22-2007, 01:42 PM
Easy cowboy, I meant nothing by using the word implies. All I'm saying is that people are being paid plenty of money to uncomplicate current technology routines. This may be a sound plan between you and I but I highly doubt it's the only way it can be done. This has nothing to do with you personally or your knowledge of motion detecting devices, it's simply a matter of progression.

its not weird that you used the word 'implies'. its weird that you responded to me in the 3rd person - not "as you've implied", but "as this statement implies".... wtf? are we talking here, or are you relaying messages to me through a 3rd party?


the only hints sony has dropped so far (as far as motion detecting goes) is the patent they filed a couple months ago for the "sensor bar" SIXAXIS. that was not very innovative/impressive, so i have no reason to believe that they have an "ace" up their sleeve. i.e. can produce something better/more innovative/totally new.

look at how the eyetoy (haha i almost typed iToy) senses the cards on the deck in "eye of judgement". there are those green triangle things; and a rudimentary form of bar code-reading. that shows me that the camera does not have a very sensitive sensor when it comes to detecting stuff - or it wouldn't need the green arrow things/bar codes....

i'm all for new tech and better ways of doing stuff; but i just don't think its in the cards this generation. (pardon the pun).

violentp
08-22-2007, 01:51 PM
its not weird that you used the word 'implies'. its weird that you responded to me in the 3rd person - not "as you've implied", but "as this statement implies".... wtf? are we talking here, or are you relaying messages to me through a 3rd party?


the only hints sony has dropped so far (as far as motion detecting goes) is the patent they filed a couple months ago for the "sensor bar" SIXAXIS. that was not very innovative/impressive, so i have no reason to believe that they have an "ace" up their sleeve. i.e. can produce something better/more innovative/totally new.

look at how the eyetoy (haha i almost typed iToy) senses the cards on the deck in "eye of judgement". there are those green triangle things; and a rudimentary form of bar code-reading. that shows me that the camera does not have a very sensitive sensor when it comes to detecting stuff - or it wouldn't need the green arrow things/bar codes....

i'm all for new tech and better ways of doing stuff; but i just don't think its in the cards this generation. (pardon the pun).

Problem here is that you have already placed judgment based on assumptions. We don't know what this thing is capable of. None of us do so this is why we shouldn't sit here and say "this is how it is". This whole discussion initially began about potential. I think more can be produced with a camera than a pointing device. That is the extent of my assumption. Apparently though you know something we all don't.

Stormwatcher
08-22-2007, 02:01 PM
I personally think it's true. I think a camera does have more potential than a wiimote. I'm not saying that the potential indicates utilization but more is possible with a camera than an infrared pointing device.

Good thing that the wiimote is not just an infrared pointing device.

violentp
08-22-2007, 02:03 PM
Good thing that the wiimote is not just an infrared pointing device.

Maybe a bit generalized but you should get the idea.

rein
08-22-2007, 02:04 PM
Hahahahaha
-------------
Internet (n.) - Where 16 year olds can rant about the decaying state of the world when they don't know shit.

Hahahahahaha!

f1sh3r
08-22-2007, 03:24 PM
I think this thing will sell. I'm not basing this on the fact that economics explains that certain percentages versus install base unit ratios....fuck all that shit. All I'm saying is that a high quality camera with an innovative game is not going to bomb. The term bomb is relative so I find it a moot point to discuss. I just don't think it's going to be a Genji is all.

i think you're completely full of the poop coming out of the sony chute your lips seem to be attached to. just one man's opinion tho.

Plomid
08-22-2007, 03:54 PM
"Sony is awesome, Sony says"

hihihihihi
this gave me a little tingle in mah belly

TrackZero
08-22-2007, 03:58 PM
Well a camera does have more potential than a wiimote, wouldn't you agree?

Well, the PS3 is just chalk full of unrealized potential. ;) Though I think you'll end up seeing more cocks instead of breasts on said camera.

violentp
08-22-2007, 04:00 PM
i think you're completely full of the poop coming out of the sony chute your lips seem to be attached to. just one man's opinion tho.

This coming from a "man" who seems to neglect my whole conversation, who only sees this as a Sony defense thing and who has absolutely no idea how proper grammar and capitalization work. Now I ask you, would you care for what such a person thinks?

Though I think you'll end up seeing more cocks instead of breasts on said camera.

I always did tell myself that if I bought the 360 camera first thing I would do is make an assface in Vegas.

mister_slim
08-22-2007, 04:09 PM
No, no it won't. For these things to succeed at the level described in the OP, they'd need to hit 50% market penetration. They'll be lucky to sell 500k over the system lifetime.

Well, if it has a quarter of the original EyeToy's success it'll hit that number in the first year.

TrackZero
08-22-2007, 04:11 PM
I always did tell myself that if I bought the 360 camera first thing I would do is make an assface in Vegas.

The best part is you won't even need to take off your pants.

Zing!

violentp
08-22-2007, 04:12 PM
The best part is you won't even need to take off your pants.

Zing!

Where do you get such sweet, golden, comedic morsels? Maybe from the guy up there that can't type. Buh-zing!

Jack B
08-22-2007, 04:17 PM
Don't have time to do the technical research about what's new with the Eye Toy, maybe someone else does, but we had 360 discussions last year about it's spatial recoginition capabilities. It's interesting, but very different than what the Wii can do. The Wii will be must less hassle to setup and use than either the PS3 or the 360 cameras. Maybe in the future things will change, but I doubt anytime soon.

Here's the URL for GestureTek (http://www.gesturetek.com/) and a Q&A about spatial gesture recognition. (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=11215)

TrackZero
08-22-2007, 04:18 PM
Where do you get such sweet, golden, comedic morsels? Maybe from the guy up there that can't type. Buh-zing!

Not sure what I typed wrong. But I only ever got a C+ in English, so meh. ;)

violentp
08-22-2007, 04:20 PM
Not sure what I typed wrong. But I only ever got a C+ in English, so meh. ;)

Nah, I wasn't talking about you. And hey, I'm a "c+" man myself.

ONI5
08-22-2007, 05:02 PM
Images of Totem Ball still haunt me.

Talon-
08-22-2007, 06:11 PM
Quite frankly, I don't know how else I'm supposed to respond to Sony saying that a camera device has more potential than the Wiimote. Great, good for you, it maybe has more potential than the Wiimote. Now, this is a company that half-assed the Six-Axis feature, so what reason do I have to believe that this company will do anything with the EyeToy?

The first game they're relying on to show the potential of this technology is a card game. First all, let's think about the audience. Card game fans. An incredibly marginal number of people (I apologize if I offended you, but I'm a hockey fan. Again, another incredibly marginal number of people ).

Does it look neat? Yeah, actually, it does look neat. Am I going to play it? No, because I'm not interested in any sort of [b]card game.

Like the third or fourth post said, it's going to take an Eye Toy coming standard with every PS3 for this to make an impact. Not to mention the Wii is successful because it's outrageously fun. Have you played The Bigs? It's a terrible arcady MLB game, but it's some of the most fun I've ever had with a bunch of guys and girls.

I have an Eye Toy. I bought one for my brother for Christmas when it came out. AntiGrav was fun, but I put it away two days later and never touched it again. I see it in the cupboard every now and then, but I don't even think about dragging it out again.

This has been said over and over again, but I'll say it anyways. The Wii is just fun. Who cares if it doesn't have more "potential" than the Eye Toy. All it needs to do is be fun to be successful. Is anybody denying the fact that Wii's are incredibly fun to play with and pretty revolutionary in terms of video gaming? No.

Now, I guess the ideal here would be the possibility of the PS3 incorporating some of the Wii's abilities and becoming a Wii + a PS3, which is great for PS3 owners. That's great.

It could happen.

I could also become Spider-Man overnight.

On a side note, I own none of the consoles. If I would buy any, I'd probably buy a PS3 because I'd want to play FFXIII, MGS4, and I've always hated the 360 controller. Luckily I have friends with 360s and Wii's.

Hahahahahaha!

If you're laughing at me because you think I sound like an asshole, I apologize. I try my best not to be an ass, but I guess it'd be easy to assume I'm one from my response. Like I said, that really was the first response that came to mind.

shnastybiznastic
08-22-2007, 08:30 PM
I'm not attempting to take anything away from the Wiimote, but it basically does one thing.

Just for clarification, the Wiimote has a camera, the infrastructure to use that camera as a pointer (in the sensor bar), three accelerometers, a microphone/speaker, rumble and passel of buttons before pluggables are factored in.

I think EOJ is cool, but lets be honest here, it's not really a good input method compared to the Wiimote.

violentp
08-22-2007, 08:53 PM
Just for clarification, the Wiimote has a camera, the infrastructure to use that camera as a pointer (in the sensor bar), three accelerometers, a microphone/speaker, rumble and passel of buttons before pluggables are factored in.

I think EOJ is cool, but lets be honest here, it's not really a good input method compared to the Wiimote.

Once again, my point is that a device that has the capability of input from an area has more potential than a device that transmits a signal to a specific location. It has very little to do with the Wii, PS3, EoJ, any of that. My opinion is derived purely from a technical standpoint.

Chameleo
08-22-2007, 08:54 PM
Problem here is that you have already placed judgment based on assumptions. We don't know what this thing is capable of. None of us do so this is why we shouldn't sit here and say "this is how it is". This whole discussion initially began about potential. I think more can be produced with a camera than a pointing device. That is the extent of my assumption. Apparently though you know something we all don't.

i have not passed judgment, i am just making an educated guess at the possibilities this thing has.... based on what we know about motion sensing technology... based on the patents Sony has filed, based on current tech.

and it does not stack up to the lofty expectations you have.

while you think you may be right in having the most open-ended point-of-view, in actuality the limits to what this thing can do are probably much closer to the ground than you expect.

i'm tired of setting myself up for grand revolutions in gaming and being disappointed. if theres one thing i know about developers, its that they over promise and under produce.

i can't see this thing doing anything more innovative the wii-mote already does, not for the life of me.

notice i said innovative - it may do all the stuff a camera currently does (which a wii-mote cannot do) and there you may see advantages of the eyetoy over the wii-mote - but i have to disagree. i don't care about seeing my online opponents or putting my face in the game. as a PC gamer at heart, we've been able to do this a while and it hasn't really caught on.

violentp
08-22-2007, 09:02 PM
i have not passed judgment, i am just making an educated guess at the possibilities this thing has.... based on what we know about motion sensing technology... based on the patents Sony has filed, based on current tech.

and it does not stack up to the lofty expectations you have.

while you think you may be right in having the most open-ended point-of-view, in actuality the limits to what this thing can do are probably much closer to the ground than you expect.

i'm tired of setting myself up for grand revolutions in gaming and being disappointed. if theres one thing i know about developers, its that they over promise and under produce.

i can't see this thing doing anything more innovative the wii-mote already does, not for the life of me.

notice i said innovative - it may do all the stuff a camera currently does (which a wii-mote cannot do) and there you may see advantages of the eyetoy over the wii-mote - but i have to disagree. i don't care about seeing my online opponents or putting my face in the game. as a PC gamer at heart, we've been able to do this a while and it hasn't really caught on.

I understand where you 're coming from and if I were to take these said company's trends into consideration, I would agree with you on about 95% of your points. But I'm not taking a company's potential usage into consideration. I'm thinking purely technology. I think a camera can trace movement as well as a pointing device. This thing is that a camera can do more than that. Even if it's the simplest, pointless little feature, it's up to the developer to utilize it in a way that is appealing to the end-user. My point is that the potential itself is there.

Now this could all be a cause of my lack of knowledge of said pointing device but I am having a hard time trying to figure out what else besides pointing can it do?

EDIT: And to be fair, I have expressed absolutely no opinion on expectation of any of these devices. If we want to talk about personal opinion on how we feel this is all going to turn out, it is going to be a completely different conversation.

Zeal
08-22-2007, 09:15 PM
more like flop toy. can i get a told off.

kmarvel
08-22-2007, 09:21 PM
Don't have time to do the technical research about what's new with the Eye Toy, maybe someone else does, but we had 360 discussions last year about it's spatial recoginition capabilities. It's interesting, but very different than what the Wii can do. The Wii will be must less hassle to setup and use than either the PS3 or the 360 cameras. Maybe in the future things will change, but I doubt anytime soon.

Here's the URL for GestureTek (http://www.gesturetek.com/) and a Q&A about spatial gesture recognition. (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=11215)

Plug the camera the a PS3 USB port. Done. What's the hassle.
One myth is that peripherals don't sell. Until they do, that is. Cue The Singstar, Buzz or the venerable Eyetoy. I read somewhere years ago that the Eyetoy sold over six million units. I have trouble tracking that particular article or the latest sales figure. The one I can track is this:
http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl...4/01/28/056218.
2 millions sold in Europe at the end of 2003. Singstar, Buzz or the Eyetoy are all multimillion sellers in Europe.
The problem with North America is that some Sony bean counters is an adherent to the peripherals don't sell so, they don't to push these products. Good thing nobody told that to the people behind Guitar Hero.

THE Eyetoy was a great early 2000s technology with all the adherent technological limitation. You could only record 60 second video due to the lack hard drive in the PS2. No such limitation in the PS3. Imagine something along the line SingStar: The American Idol Edition where you can post your performance online to judged or roasted by million other PS3 owners.

Microsoft release their Live Vision camera and done shit with it. At least the PS2 had Eyetoy Play and Eyetoy Sports (preceding the Wii version by at least 4 years). Live Vision has Totemball?

Devolution
08-22-2007, 09:21 PM
As if "potential" means anything.

If the technology isn't there, potential is just a pipe dream.

Chameleo
08-22-2007, 09:36 PM
I understand where you 're coming from and if I were to take these said company's trends into consideration, I would agree with you on about 95% of your points. But I'm not taking a company's potential usage into consideration. I'm thinking purely technology. I think a camera can trace movement as well as a pointing device. This thing is that a camera can do more than that. Even if it's the simplest, pointless little feature, it's up to the developer to utilize it in a way that is appealing to the end-user. My point is that the potential itself is there.

Now this could all be a cause of my lack of knowledge of said pointing device but I am having a hard time trying to figure out what else besides pointing can it do?

EDIT: And to be fair, I have expressed absolutely no opinion on expectation of any of these devices. If we want to talk about personal opinion on how we feel this is all going to turn out, it is going to be a completely different conversation.

i know what you're saying. with the jumps in tech we've seen over the past 10 - 20 years in gaming, the eye-toy's tech is bound to surpass the wii-mote's just because it can do everything the wii-mote can do and more. That the tech in the coming years will eclipse what the wii has done and devs will be able to do everything the wii does with just a camera hooked up to their system (could be eyetoy or live! vision).

i just dont have that much faith in devs/tech. i approach future tech very skeptically. while the jumps we've made in the past 10-20 years seem HUGE by relation, not much has happened in gaming in the past 5 years.

here we have bioshock, the spiritual successor to system shock 2; doing what system shock did - but better. the difference (in the grand scheme of gaming/tech) has been incremental. and its been 10 years....

i just dont see tech leap-frogging that much in the next 5 years.

I understand that it may be possible - under proper circumstances/the right catalyst - but in reality, nothing is going to happen....

shnastybiznastic
08-22-2007, 09:44 PM
Once again, my point is that a device that has the capability of input from an area has more potential than a device that transmits a signal to a specific location. It has very little to do with the Wii, PS3, EoJ, any of that. My opinion is derived purely from a technical standpoint.

Well, if you are only thinking spatially. I'm not trying to be condescending here, so don't take it that way, but do you program? Part of the reason that I ask is because a programmer (or mathematician for that matter) would be familiar with the process of taking obscure inputs and organizing them logically without the use of spatial thinking. For example, extrapolating the possible inputs of an an accelerometer (or a range thereof), or understanding a seven-dimensional matrix.

While a camera can take a massive amount of input data, it's hard to interpret that data into something meaningful (even simple jobs of interpretation like galaxy shape and classification have to be farmed out to human eyes!). Not only that, but a camera's input is hampered by it's very nature, since it represents the pattern of light reflected off things facing it and therefore has trouble interpreting three-dimensional motion (specifically, rotation).

I don't argue that it's not possible, just that it's computationally infeasible.

violentp
08-22-2007, 09:44 PM
i know what you're saying. with the jumps in tech we've seen over the past 10 - 20 years in gaming, the eye-toy's tech is bound to surpass the wii-mote's just because it can do everything the wii-mote can do and more. That the tech in the coming years will eclipse what the wii has done and devs will be able to do everything the wii does with just a camera hooked up to their system (could be eyetoy or live! vision).

i just dont have that much faith in devs/tech. i approach future tech very skeptically. while the jumps we've made in the past 10-20 years seem HUGE by relation, not much has happened in gaming in the past 5 years.

here we have bioshock, the spiritual successor to system shock 2; doing what system shock did - but better. the difference (in the grand scheme of gaming/tech) has been incremental. and its been 10 years....

i just dont see tech leap-frogging that much in the next 5 years.

I understand that it may be possible - under proper circumstances/the right catalyst - but in reality, nothing is going to happen....

Flat out, I don't think the EyeToy has a snowballs chance in hell of dethroning the Wii and it's interface, and this is not the impression I intend to give. What kind of illustrates what I do think though, is if Nintendo decided to go with camera control instead of wiimote controls and did it as innovative and creatively as they did with their current setup. I think it would open a huge world of opportunity unlike most could attain. Whereas if anyone else decided to come out with a motion control, it wouldn't reach that level of grandeur. Almost enough to say even if they did it as well as Nintendo is doing it now.

My point about potential is relative to development. I think Nintendo could do better camera control than Sony. I think Nintendo could do motion control better than Sony. I think Nintendo could do camera control better than Nintendo could do motion control. You get where I'm coming from?

Wolvie
08-22-2007, 11:36 PM
He has a point, the Eyetoy had some pretty precise detection, the Wii remote? It's good, but glitchy at times. And I bet a mounted camera would be less dangerous to your HDTV then the wildly flung Wii mote.
With that said the Wii remote offers some pretty damn cool control options... options I'm not so sure could be replicated with just a motion detecting camera.

Chameleo
08-23-2007, 12:30 AM
Flat out, I don't think the EyeToy has a snowballs chance in hell of dethroning the Wii and it's interface, and this is not the impression I intend to give. What kind of illustrates what I do think though, is if Nintendo decided to go with camera control instead of wiimote controls and did it as innovative and creatively as they did with their current setup. I think it would open a huge world of opportunity unlike most could attain. Whereas if anyone else decided to come out with a motion control, it wouldn't reach that level of grandeur. Almost enough to say even if they did it as well as Nintendo is doing it now.

My point about potential is relative to development. I think Nintendo could do better camera control than Sony. I think Nintendo could do motion control better than Sony. I think Nintendo could do camera control better than Nintendo could do motion control. You get where I'm coming from?

they might be able to do it better but it still wouldn't be anything to write home about. i just don't think the tech is there for those tiny cameras you plug into your consoles...

Evil Avnovice
08-23-2007, 03:25 AM
Microsoft release their Live Vision camera and done shit with it. At least the PS2 had Eyetoy Play and Eyetoy Sports (preceding the Wii version by at least 4 years). Live Vision has Totemball?

Wii version of what? :rolleyes:

Bone
08-27-2007, 10:48 PM
He has a point, the Eyetoy had some pretty precise detection, the Wii remote? It's good, but glitchy at times.
Once you see how long the Eyetoy takes to register a playing card, you may think the opposite of your statement is true. It can't deal with movement, shadows and lighting differences very well. The Wiimote is far more accurate and especially so for rapid motion.

Psykoboy2
08-30-2007, 04:39 PM
Once you see how long the Eyetoy takes to register a playing card, you may think the opposite of your statement is true. It can't deal with movement, shadows and lighting differences very well. The Wiimote is far more accurate and especially so for rapid motion.

It could with me. I leaned the card to the left and the image did too. Then when I moved the card up and down, the image on the screen shook around as though I was making it dizzy...and annoyed.

Bone
08-31-2007, 10:40 AM
Yea, I saw that, but you have to admit, there was a definite lag. If you moved the card too much, it would go out of sync. My point is that it's not the sensitivity you can get on a Wiimote. The two technologies are completely different and both have their uses, certainly.

It was pretty fun to "poke" the monster sitting on a card.