Bioshock Widescreen support Sparks Controversy

[SymetriX]

Videophiles have confirmed (http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11658&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=) that Bioshock uses cropping in widescreen resolutions, causing portions of the player's arm to be cut off (http://wsgfmedia.com/uploads/paddywak/screenshots/bioshock/BioshockFOV.jpg) at the bottom of the screen, and resulting in a field-of-view which makes the widescreen setting feel "zoomed-in". This has been confirmed in both demo and retail Xbox 360 and PC versions.

While cropping is not uncommon in the industry as a quick-and-dirty way to achieve widescreen support, Bioshock lead programmer Chris Kline specifically promised gamers true widescreen modes in May of this year in a posting on the 2kGames forum (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659):

The game will render in full 16:9 aspect ratio, with no letterboxing unless your resolution is not true 16:9.
When pressed further, Kline added:

You will see more in widescreen. We use a different projection matrix; there is no squashing or stretching of the image involved.
A thread has been started on the 2kgames forum (http://forums.2kgames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4883) but so far there has been no official response, and it remains to be seen as to whether this is an issue which can be patched and why this issue made it into the game in spite of Kline's previous comments.

[karak]

Ug. I never thought wide screen meant that much but lately I have been loving it. Hopefully they patch it. Or offer a refund for every pixel not displayed correctly;)

[chirz]

The demo looked great on my widescreen tv, and I don't think I would have ever realized there was something amiss with the aspect ratio if nobody said anything. I can't wait to pick up Bioshock after work ;)

[pheriannath]

The game will render in full 16:9 aspect ratio, with no letterboxing unless your resolution is not true 16:9.

So anyone with a 16:10 ratio gets cropped?

1680 x 1050 and 1920 x 1200 are the most common 16 x 10 ratios, so perhaps that's where the problem lies? (since most widescreen PC monitors display in these resolutions)

[NationalKato]

So this explains the GameSpot review.

I keed, I keed.

[Mr.Green]

Tar and feathers!

[captainstrombosis]

The demo looked great on my widescreen tv, and I don't think I would have ever realized there was something amiss with the aspect ratio if nobody said anything. I can't wait to pick up Bioshock after work ;)

I have to agree with this. It looks great on my Widescreen, it might be cropped but that's ok with me. I get to miss a slight bit of my characters arms. I wouldn't have even noticed had someone not pointed it out.

Although, promising one thing and doing another is a big no-no in my book. Atleast not without an announcement.

[NoName]

It'd be nice to point out this seems to only be a problem with the PC version and not the 360 version.

While the FOV is set correctly for widescreens with the 360 version, it's not for the PC version.

So everyone saying it looked nice on your widescreen TV, I'm assuming it was the 360 version in which case you are correct.

[Beelzebud]

Played the demo last night twice in 16:10 and never noticed any "problem" with anything.

I was just amazed at how damn nice the Unreal3 engine runs on my hardware! That engine is SWEET.

After playing the demo of Bioshock, I think Silicon Knights needs to be laughed out of court.

[Beelzebud]

I'd like to point out that this "Issue" is present in BOTH copies of the game.

http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=108187#108187

[2HeadedBoy]

I noticed in the PC demo last night, I had the bars on the side. Not matter what resolution I had it on, they were there.

[mkelehan]

I just had a bit of a phone argument with a friend over this, in which I defended Irratio... 2K and he was against them. Basically, we're not missing anything. If you really want to see what's up and down, take a step back. By the arguments made here, the best perspective would be zoomed way the hell out to the point where you couldn't see anything. Since this is a first person game, it's up to the developer to decide where is the best point to view the action. They believe it is at this distance. They also put things in the world that are relevant to the far left and far right, so for 4:3, it's zoomed OUT more than they wanted,

[Mr.Green]

I just had a bit of a phone argument with a friend over this, in which I defended Irratio... 2K and he was against them. Basically, we're not missing anything. If you really want to see what's up and down, take a step back. By the arguments made here, the best perspective would be zoomed way the hell out to the point where you couldn't see anything. Since this is a first person game, it's up to the developer to decide where is the best point to view the action. They believe it is at this distance. They also put things in the world that are relevant to the far left and far right, so for 4:3, it's zoomed OUT more than they wanted,

I'm not following you.

The way it's usually done is that 16:9 is your 4:3 PoV with more on the sides. In this case 4:3 is 16:9 with more on the top/bottom.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I just had a bit of a phone argument with a friend over this, in which I defended Irratio... 2K and he was against them. Basically, we're not missing anything. If you really want to see what's up and down, take a step back. By the arguments made here, the best perspective would be zoomed way the hell out to the point where you couldn't see anything. Since this is a first person game, it's up to the developer to decide where is the best point to view the action. They believe it is at this distance. They also put things in the world that are relevant to the far left and far right, so for 4:3, it's zoomed OUT more than they wanted,
Yeah - as it stands, you see what the developer intended if you play in 4:3, and less than that in 16:9. Also, for a game that has multi-leveled fighting (and flying enemies!) Losing that up/down is bad.

[Gott]

I never noticed anything funny on my widescreen. Looks amazing to me...

[BrainDrain]

If it looks the same as the 360 demo I won't care since I havent seen anything different.

[Zander]

So what, does this mean the game doesn't look freaking awesome now or something?

During the demo everyone couldn't get enough, and now that 4:3 is being shown all over the place people are freaking out about not seeing a bit of the guys arms and a bit at the top of the screen. The resolution is still the true res isn't it, it's not like it's some kind of upscale/downscale thing.

[Wolvie]

Ah well, it might be a minor annoyance when I go pick it up today. But since I played the demo already and didn't even notice, I highly doubt it.

[Wyrm]

I just had a bit of a phone argument with a friend over this, in which I defended Irratio... 2K and he was against them. Basically, we're not missing anything. If you really want to see what's up and down, take a step back. By the arguments made here, the best perspective would be zoomed way the hell out to the point where you couldn't see anything. Since this is a first person game, it's up to the developer to decide where is the best point to view the action. They believe it is at this distance. They also put things in the world that are relevant to the far left and far right, so for 4:3, it's zoomed OUT more than they wanted,

No, it's just that the widescreen functionality isn't doing what it's supposed to. Sure, they can choose whatever perspective they want, but it's not true widescreen, and you can't call it that.

It's a first person game, so the more you can see, the better off you tend to be. In other words, why not just provide a wider view of the area? If you think about it logically, it makes more sense to game in widescreen, and it even adds to the immersion, because in real life, you don't just see a square of space in front of you. You have peripheral vision, and that's what widescreen is essentially there to simulate. If the aspect ratio is incorrectly displayed, then it's not widescreen, and it's not working right.

You seem to be defending the company because the game is good, and not because the argument is a logical one.

[PsychoticVile]

Hmm I noticed when playing the demo part of the interface where you get a message on your radio or find an audio disc in the bottom right corner was cut off.

[kid cabelgo]

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d148/lukiladi17/wambulance1.gif

[Beelzebud]

IMO this is much ado about NOTHING.

If the most people can find to bitch about the game is a missing quarter of an inch in widescreen mode, then I'd say the game is pretty fucking sweet.

And the Unreal3 engine... OMG I thought I would need a system upgrade for it, but my machine is playing it flawlessly.

[Beelzebud]

One spot that actually made me laugh in the demo: "Go find a crowbar or something!"

A nice little nod to Valve. :)

[Telefrog]

IMO this is much ado about NOTHING.

If the most people can find to bitch about the game is a missing quarter of an inch in widescreen mode, then I'd say the game is pretty fucking sweet.

And the Unreal3 engine... OMG I thought I would need a system upgrade for it, but my machine is playing it flawlessly.

I don't know how many people are bitching about the game in this instance. I think the "outrage" is more directed at the people that promised widescreen, but did not actually deliver it. Instead, they passed off a jury-rigged, gimped version of it and hoped that no one noticed.

Unless someone can explain what happened, it really seems to be a case of deception.

[PsychoticVile]

IMO this is much ado about NOTHING.

If the most people can find to bitch about the game is a missing quarter of an inch in widescreen mode, then I'd say the game is pretty fucking sweet.

And the Unreal3 engine... OMG I thought I would need a system upgrade for it, but my machine is playing it flawlessly.

On my TV it was over half of that portion of the interface to the point when I got a message or found the video/audio disc in the demo I could not see what was going on.

I'm still getting it though and will enjoy it but am sure that if it is as bad with the retail version as it was in the demo it will annoy me more than once.

[The Great Gatsby]

The demo looked great on my widescreen tv, and I don't think I would have ever realized there was something amiss with the aspect ratio if nobody said anything. I can't wait to pick up Bioshock after work ;)

I agree. It looked fine to me on my screen. No complaints.

Time for the rest of the gaming world to cry, moan, and bitch. LOL.

[Returner]

I was just amazed at how damn nice the Unreal3 engine runs on my hardware! That engine is SWEET.


In the right hands it does. Have you played Hour of Victory?

[KingGorilla]

I pray for a patch. Widescreen is a very important component in shooters.

[BlackPete]

Hm. I never really noticed this until it was announced. Then again I did find myself thinking that I'd need to try the PC demo before deciding whether I'd want the 360 version or not as I found myself having to look around a little more than I'd have liked to.

[Grimmjow]

I sure wish they would fix those subtitles also while there @ it fixing stuff.

[Housemixer]

I didn't realize there was missing something, but now that I've seen the 4:3 screenshots I'm a bit confused why 16:9 shows less. I mean this game wasn't patched for WS afterwards. A what the hell, there's nothing you can do about it.

[Pluvious]

I noticed the crappy fov problem right away.. but that's because the FOV level is ALWAYS a problem for me. (pet peeve) Halo 2 was unplayable for me compared to Halo 1. Fear and Prey on the 360 got it right.. its like 90-100 fov.
I HATE 75 fov!!

[TrackZero]

I noticed the crappy fov problem right away.. but that's because the FOV level is ALWAYS a problem for me. (pet peeve) Halo 2 was unplayable for me compared to Halo 1. Fear and Prey on the 360 got it right.. its like 90-100 fov.
I HATE 75 fov!!

This only affects the PC, you're smoking the rock.

[Rafer]

I didn't realize there was missing something, but now that I've seen the 4:3 screenshots I'm a bit confused why 16:9 shows less. I mean this game wasn't patched for WS afterwards. A what the hell, there's nothing you can do about it.

Well it's not quite that 16:9 is showing less, but that 4:3 is showing more... ah don't worry about it. No matter how much is showing in 16:9, they can always add more to the top and bottom to the 4:3 version.

The reason developers sometimes use a FOV that "shows less" is to bring objects and characters visually closer to you. The wider the FOV the more you see, but the further back everything looks, you start getting a "fish eye" effect.

[Fartacus]

All this whining about widescreen being cropped is absurd. There are a couple ways of maintaining proper aspect ratio. One is to widen the horizontal FOV and while maintaining vertical FOV, and the other is to narrow vertical FOV while maintaining horizontal FOV. Irrational went with the second approach, but it's still proper widescreen support. The aspect ratio is correct and there is no letterboxing.

[IagoTheHunted]

Geez you guys, this is a total non-issue.

Wide screen just means the game is rendered at a specific resolution and aspect ratio. Bioshock DOES run at the correct resolution and aspect ratio in WS, it is NOT "scaled" or "cropped" from anything, that would absorb a lot of graphic rendering time for no reason. What your seeing is simply that in the Widescreen rig the camera is framed slightly different than 4:3. In fact your seeing things "bigger" and "more detailed" in WS because of the extra resolution instead of just "seeing more around the edges".
Yeah the hands are cut off a little higher in WS. Big whoop. They would have had to do that in order to have the hands at the edges of the screen on a thinner aspect ratio (think about it... hard... see?) They can't just rip the arms farther apart, it would be wierd, like the guy has crazy space hands floating out at opposite ends of the screen. They had to bring the camera in a little bit to get it all framed right.

So can people stop bitching about this already? Widescreen wasn't "tacked on", you'll notice the entire user interface is setup differently to fit both, its all well thought out from what I can see.

[Pluvious]

This only affects the PC, you're smoking the rock.

I beg to differ. The FOV on the 360 is pushed in to much and it seems like its around 65.. I prefer 80-90.

[Adam Blue]

Too me, that's a big deal. Like KG said, it's a requirement for shooters. I'm totally hardcore and never settle for less.

[ÜberJumper]

If I had a widescreen monitor on my PC, I'd be raising a stink about this. Seriously, not cool that you see more data in 4:3 than you do in 16:9.

Any of you people NOT complaining about this, imagine if you purchased a movie to play on your home player on your hot hot widescreen TV, but when you watched it, the tops of characters heads were chopped off.

That's the problem here.

[Klunka]

If you can't understand the big deal, think about it this way.

If you wanted to see more to the left or right in everyday life, would you actually look with your eyes left or right? Or would you perhaps merely squint so it APPEARED you could see more left-right?

[The-Builder]

Very strange they didn't add true widescreen, seeing how it's the Unreal engine. :S

[Mr.Green]

Geez you guys, this is a total non-issue.

Wide screen just means the game is rendered at a specific resolution and aspect ratio. Bioshock DOES run at the correct resolution and aspect ratio in WS, it is NOT "scaled" or "cropped" from anything, that would absorb a lot of graphic rendering time for no reason. What your seeing is simply that in the Widescreen rig the camera is framed slightly different than 4:3. In fact your seeing things "bigger" and "more detailed" in WS because of the extra resolution instead of just "seeing more around the edges".
Yeah the hands are cut off a little higher in WS. Big whoop. They would have had to do that in order to have the hands at the edges of the screen on a thinner aspect ratio (think about it... hard... see?) They can't just rip the arms farther apart, it would be wierd, like the guy has crazy space hands floating out at opposite ends of the screen. They had to bring the camera in a little bit to get it all framed right.

So can people stop bitching about this already? Widescreen wasn't "tacked on", you'll notice the entire user interface is setup differently to fit both, its all well thought out from what I can see.

First of all, I don't think anybody here is "bitching" or outraged. This clearly is not a big deal and Bioshock is definitely one of the best games evar but it's a little weird nonetheless.

Secondly, look at this (http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=108187#108187) closely and spare us your theories on how widescreen is supposed to work. ;)

[51|RandoM]

The game is singleplayer, I could not possibly care less how they implement widescreen. Oh no, the splicers have an advantage over me, they can see more. h4x! h4x!

;)

[IagoTheHunted]

If I had a widescreen monitor on my PC, I'd be raising a stink about this. Seriously, not cool that you see more data in 4:3 than you do in 16:9.

Any of you people NOT complaining about this, imagine if you purchased a movie to play on your home player on your hot hot widescreen TV, but when you watched it, the tops of characters heads were chopped off.

That's the problem here.


God damnit video games aren't the same as movies. In a movie that would be a problem because you'd be clipping the camera, in a game YOU CONTROL THE CAMERA, the way it's rigged relative to the hands is unimportant. In widescreen you get more pixels and FOV is the same as standard 4:3. The camera is just forward a little for framing.

[IagoTheHunted]

First of all, I don't think anybody here is "bitching" or outraged. This clearly is not a big deal and Bioshock is definitely one of the best games evar but it's a little weird nonetheless.

Secondly, look at this (http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=108187#108187) closely and spare us your theories on how widescreen is supposed to work. ;)

I saw that already. You can't tell from a crappy screenshot like that but in Widescreen the resolution is higher so you see more detail, like as if your face/camera was closer in. That is NOT the same as "seeing less" or clipping.

[IagoTheHunted]

spare us your theories on how widescreen is supposed to work. ;)

It's not a theory I make video games for a living. I guess I shouldn't get riled up about this sort of thing but it hurts that the game is getting people worried over an issue that really truly isn't an issue.

[Johan]

Interestingly enough (for me...not for you perhaps), my SDTV has been borked of late. My 360 screen is cropped (I cannot see the same frame as I used to see...as if it were zoomed in partially, but there's no zoom feature). I tried my 360 on other tvs and had no problem...just the one SDTV. Weird. Part of the image is cut off.

Sorry for the threadjack...

[Philonious]

Played the demo last night twice in 16:10 and never noticed any "problem" with anything.

I was just amazed at how damn nice the Unreal3 engine runs on my hardware! That engine is SWEET.

After playing the demo of Bioshock, I think Silicon Knights needs to be laughed out of court.

Silicon Knight's issues comes partially from the fact that they are using Unreal for a game that is not an FPS. The Unreal engine is obviously optimized as an FPS/3rdPS engine, but they have sold it as a graphics engine with limitless possibilities. The problem is that adapting it for "Too Human" takes a LOT more work then it would for BioShock, and they feel Epic is selling them short. The fact that a number of companies have also had complaints lends credence to their complaints. I imagine that more problems will arise as companies who are also applying Unreal to non-FPSs try to use the engine (Square/Enix, Capcom, etc.). I don't doubt that Epic will be providing better support once UT3 launches (or they get their asses handed to them in court).

But yes, it runs surprising well on my year old (once kickass) laptop. And custom drivers have boosted my laptop's performance overall as well.

[ÜberJumper]

The camera is just forward a little for framing.

No, the problem is that data is missing from the widescreen resolutions. Just because the player controls the camera doesn't change the fact that the viewable area is cut off. The camera is not "just a little forward for framing" because the distance from the camera to a set object is the same in Fullscreen and Widescreen. The Widescreen people still see less data than fullscreen. It should be that Fullscreen sees what they see now, and widescreen should see more.

The viewable area is being cropped down from a 4x3 image rather than being increased for widescreen.

Best example here : http://wsgfmedia.com/uploads/paddywak/screenshots/bioshock/BioshockFOV.jpg

[Mr.Green]

It's not a theory I make video games for a living.

GUYS! IT'S HIM!

Stop arguing with us and just get on that patch already. :p

[IagoTheHunted]

No, the problem is that data is missing from the widescreen resolutions. Just because the player controls the camera doesn't change the fact that the viewable area is cut off. The camera is not "just a little forward for framing" because the distance from the camera to a set object is the same in Fullscreen and Widescreen. The Widescreen people still see less data than fullscreen. It should be that Fullscreen sees what they see now, and widescreen should see more.

The viewable area is being cropped down from a 4x3 image rather than being increased for widescreen.

OK your right in a sense the viewable area is cropped down. But it's not actually CROPPED because that implys that the image is rendered, cropped, and then scaled up. But that would be crazy, it's too inefficient, trust me as a developer that it doesn't ever work that way. So what's actually happening is the screen is just being drawn at full HD resolution within a frame that covers roughly the same visual landscape horizontally as in 4:3. So IE the developers chose to bring the view in and make it bigger instead of pulling it out and making it smaller. You can question that decision if you want, but don't go saying it's not HD or not WS or something, that's not what your seeing.

[Lima Beans]

I noticed that Gears of War does the same thing... so what? Its a pretty standard way of implementing widescreen. And yes, it is true widescreen. The projection matrix is not squashed, or stretched. And yes, you see more in 4:3. You realize in some fullscreen movies you see more as well, thats why its quite common to see the boom mikes in the fullscreen versions. Its pretty common and is a valid decision for the developer to make, especially if the game was designed primarily for 16:9.

Go check out Gears of War yourself, nobody cared that it did it.

[IagoTheHunted]

GUYS! IT'S HIM!

Stop arguing with us and just get on that patch already. :p

Oops I gotta shut up if people know who I am :P

If enough people complain 2K will probably patch it, but honestly I wouldn't worry, seeing the details of the game a little bigger in WS isn't a bad thing... If you saw it "fixed" side by side with what's there now you'd probably choose it the way it is. Whoever did the setup for the game did.

[ÜberJumper]

OK your right in a sense the viewable area is cropped down. But it's not actually CROPPED because that implys that the image is rendered, cropped, and then scaled up. But that would be crazy, it's too inefficient, trust me as a developer that it doesn't ever work that way. So what's actually happening is the screen is just being drawn at full HD resolution within a frame that covers roughly the same visual landscape horizontally as in 4:3. So IE the developers chose to bring the view in and make it bigger instead of pulling it out and making it smaller. You can question that decision if you want, but don't go saying it's not HD or not WS or something, that's not what your seeing.


Bad choice of wording on my part re: cropped. I should have said "a comparison between resulting images appears as if the widescreen image has been cropped" or something :-)

I believe widescreen gaming should be supported as Valve did for Half Life 2, adding more data to the edges of the screen area. Relic's done the same with Company of Heroes, adding extra data on the left and right (they have problems with widescreen support for Dawn of War games).

I'm still a 4:3 PC gamer, but a 16:9 console gamer, so I have an interest in seeing proper widescreen support (if my desk supported a Widescreen monitor, I'd have one like yesterday).

[menage]

I sure wish they would fix those subtitles also while there @ it fixing stuff.

Yeah, I think that's more irritating, the txt flying by with the spoken one lagging behind like a MF. But I noticed that oin other games too (Darkness). Wonder why that is.

[Goronmon]

IMO this is much ado about NOTHING.

If the most people can find to bitch about the game is a missing quarter of an inch in widescreen mode, then I'd say the game is pretty fucking sweet.I really get sick of people making comments like this. It's such a fucking stupid point of view to take. Just because you are too much of a simpleton to consider both the good and bad of a game at the same time, doesn't mean others aren't allowed to.

Edit: Anyways, I get pissed at any developer who implements widescreen like this. I didn't buy a widescreen monitor/TV so that I could see less of what's going on in the games I'm playing. Doesn't matter how great the game is, I'll still voice my frustration when developers do this.

[lion2]

Well upon booting the game they should've put this warning message.

"This game has been modified from it's original version: It has been formatted to fit your screen"

[EvilBob46]

This only affects the PC, you're smoking the rock.

Well, I'm playing the 360 version right now over VGA and when I hold the wrench I do not see the arm like in the fullscreen picture that was posted, which means the image is cropped, for me at least. Not that something so trivial makes any difference to me, but still.

[TrackZero]

OK your right in a sense the viewable area is cropped down. But it's not actually CROPPED because that implys that the image is rendered, cropped, and then scaled up. But that would be crazy, it's too inefficient, trust me as a developer that it doesn't ever work that way. So what's actually happening is the screen is just being drawn at full HD resolution within a frame that covers roughly the same visual landscape horizontally as in 4:3. So IE the developers chose to bring the view in and make it bigger instead of pulling it out and making it smaller. You can question that decision if you want, but don't go saying it's not HD or not WS or something, that's not what your seeing.

Don't worry man, many of us "get it". Good luck with the trolls.

[laggerific]

Can we now say that the PC version was gimped due to the 360 needing a tighter FOV in widescreen to achieve performance? I mean, I will say that...and its pure speculation, but it fits nicely into the console gimped the PC version once again, argument.

The thing that bums me out is that I was able to play the demo at 1920x1200 without any major performance concerns...now I'm wondering if I will be able to enjoy the same performance if they fix this issue.

I do believe that they should...this is just as bad, if not worse, than when Back to the Future came out on DVD and they had to do a major (total?) recall because they thought widescreen/cropped were interchangeable concepts.

[Lima Beans]

nevermind. no point in this

[Disgustipated]

Oops I gotta shut up if people know who I am :P

If enough people complain 2K will probably patch it, but honestly I wouldn't worry, seeing the details of the game a little bigger in WS isn't a bad thing... If you saw it "fixed" side by side with what's there now you'd probably choose it the way it is. Whoever did the setup for the game did.

Go back to GameFAQs and pretend to be a "video game maker". :rolleyes:

[cp#]

BF2 and 2142 don't even offer widescreen support. You can add a line to the shortcut but it is basically just a cropping trick as well.

[Disgustipated]

I'd just like to add that by editing INI files, I believe you can change the FOV of Bioshock pretty easily and put it at whatever Field of View you'd like. I just did it to the demo.

[laggerific]

BF2 and 2142 don't even offer widescreen support. You can add a line to the shortcut but it is basically just a cropping trick as well.

I'm not sure I understand what this comment is trying to achieve? Also, they've claimed they have a valid reason for a multiplayer game to ensure that no one is seeing more than others...a competitive reason.

Bioshock as a single player game has no such argument. I personally think its a ripoff if they want to claim true widescreen if they are really just cropping...would you be okay if you picked up Star Wars on DVD in Widescreen only to see that they chopped half the picture off? I know when I saw it in the theatres there was a lot there that I would miss.

[II Comrade II]

I dont understand how this is even a debate.

The FACT is they have screwed up on widescreen support. The whole point of widescreen is so we can see more on the screen. Hell even if we dont get more of the picture we are still getting less. People who have upgraded to HD (all HD tvs made nowadays are 16:9 btw) are getting scrrwed. We are seeing less image then a person who has a 15 yr old 4:3 crt. And thats not right.

This is next gen and I EXPECT a proper image.

P.S. I wonder how many of you people who bitch about the game not supporting true 16:9 if it was on a PS3. ALL of you guys are trying tp justify the fact they messed up with the fact the game is good. Which isnt a logical arguement.

[Lima Beans]

I dont understand how this is even a debate.

The FACT is they have screwed up on widescreen support. The whole point of widescreen is so we can see more on the screen. Hell even if we dont get more of the picture we are still getting less. People who have upgraded to HD (all HD tvs made nowadays are 16:9 btw) are getting scrrwed. We are seeing less image then a person who has a 15 yr old 4:3 crt. And thats not right.

This is next gen and I EXPECT a proper image.

P.S. I wonder how many of you people who bitch about the game not supporting true 16:9 if it was on a PS3. ALL of you guys are trying tp justify the fact they messed up with the fact the game is good. Which isnt a logical arguement.

/head explodes

[Fartacus]

If I had a widescreen monitor on my PC, I'd be raising a stink about this. Seriously, not cool that you see more data in 4:3 than you do in 16:9.

Why. If you had a 20" wide 16:9 screen next to a 20" 4:3 screen, why should the 4:3 screen show less horizontally that the 16:9 screen (aka the "shortscreen" display?

[laggerific]

[QUOTE=ÜberJumper;935382]If I had a widescreen monitor on my PC, I'd be raising a stink about this. Seriously, not cool that you see more data in 4:3 than you do in 16:9.[/QOUTE]

Why. If you had a 20" wide 16:9 screen next to a 20" 4:3 screen, why should the 4:3 screen show less horizontally that the 16:9 screen (aka the "shortscreen" display?


Once again...look at this from the perspective of film...would you accept this in a widescreen DVD or HDDVD you've purchased?

[Fartacus]

[QUOTE=Fartacus;935783]


Once again...look at this from the perspective of film...would you accept this in a widescreen DVD or HDDVD you've purchased?

Let's not look at this from the perspective of film. Film is irrelevant to video games.

[Lima Beans]

[QUOTE=Fartacus;935783]


Once again...look at this from the perspective of film...would you accept this in a widescreen DVD or HDDVD you've purchased?


This is EXACTLY what MANY films (not all) do btw.

if you buy many fullscreen films you will see MORE of the top and bottom, hence why you OFTEN see the boom mike in full screen films, where it didnt appear in the widescreen versions.

[laggerific]

[QUOTE=laggerific;935786]

Let's not look at this from the perspective of film. Film is irrelevant to video games.

This isn't a debate about film vs. games as art...this is about the field of view...widescreen gaming is a spinoff from widescreen movies, and exist for the same reasons, to provide the full field of vision to support our bi ocular viewing ability. If you crop something in widescreen than exists in fullscreen you are defeating the purpose of why widescreen exists in the first place.

[laggerific]

[QUOTE=laggerific;935786]


This is EXACTLY what MANY films (not all) do btw.

if you buy many fullscreen films you will see MORE of the top and bottom, hence why you OFTEN see the boom mike in full screen films, where it didnt appear in the widescreen versions.

I know...just like in college I got to see Cuba Gooding Jr. penis in Jerry Mcguire...but those parts are meant to be cropped out...please provide some examples of commercial releases that have booms in view...I'm only aware of seeing them when film is improperly cropped.

Anyway...why is there this animosity towards widescreen games?

[cp#]

I'm not sure I understand what this comment is trying to achieve? Also, they've claimed they have a valid reason for a multiplayer game to ensure that no one is seeing more than others...a competitive reason.

Bioshock as a single player game has no such argument. I personally think its a ripoff if they want to claim true widescreen if they are really just cropping...would you be okay if you picked up Star Wars on DVD in Widescreen only to see that they chopped half the picture off? I know when I saw it in the theatres there was a lot there that I would miss.

Ever played CS? 1.6 or Source? Day of Defeat? These games are much more popular in competitive play than BF2 and they offer true widescreen support.

I just wrapped up playing a bit of Bioshock (I play at 1680x1050), I'd like to compare a screenshot of mine against one at say 1024x768 and we'll see who is seeing more.

[Zeal]

damn now that you mention it...i did notice this.

[Beelzebud]

/head explodes

This is NEXT-GEN! I DEMAND A PROPER IMAGE!!!!11

THIS IS NEXT-GEN!!!!111

LOL

/head explodes.

[BlackMako85]

I was on the fence about picking up Bioshock (I've never been fond of paying $60 for a game that is less than 20 hours), and this news is pushing me more toward passing on this one. Good game or not, it's pretty shitty to remove true widescreen support after promising it.

[Micasa]

[QUOTE=Fartacus;935783]


Once again...look at this from the perspective of film...would you accept this in a widescreen DVD or HDDVD you've purchased?

It's not really comparable, as you can't simply look around more in the movie to see the rest of it. You only lose, in the game, what you think you should have had. In a movie you can't help but notice what's missing - especially in some, where the crop is particularly bad.

[laggerific]

Ever played CS? 1.6 or Source? Day of Defeat? These games are much more popular in competitive play than BF2 and they offer true widescreen support.

I just wrapped up playing a bit of Bioshock (I play at 1680x1050), I'd like to compare a screenshot of mine against one at say 1024x768 and we'll see who is seeing more.

I'm sure...I was just mentioning that that was EA's argument for lack of widescreen...

[laggerific]

[QUOTE=laggerific;935786]

It's not really comparable, as you can't simply look around more in the movie to see the rest of it. You only lose, in the game, what you think you should have had. In a movie you can't help but notice what's missing - especially in some, where the crop is particularly bad.

Okay...on that level it makes sense to a certain extent...but I still think it has a lot to do with taking advantage of our more horizontal field of view. I basically feel that fullscreen has been cropping stuff from us for ages, so I'm very keen on widescreen. So when widescreen is cropped in a game we are losing the field of view that we finally gained as widescreen became more prevalent in the US.

[zokrath]

Why. If you had a 20" wide 16:9 screen next to a 20" 4:3 screen, why should the 4:3 screen show less horizontally that the 16:9 screen (aka the "shortscreen" display?


You don't compare by inches, because those are taken diagonally.
Compare by native resolution.

A 24" Widescreen is generally 1920x1200.

That is 320 more pixels than a 4:3 1600x1200 native res monitor.

Why shouldn't a widescreen monitor with 20% more horizontal screen space show more than a 4:3 screen?

[ElektroDragon]

I sure wish they would fix those subtitles also while there @ it fixing stuff.

You are the only other person to say something about the botched subtitles. They need fixed!

[ÜberJumper]

Fartacus:

What Zokrath said. It's about viewable area. A big constant between full and widescreen monitors is the height measurement (in pixels). A 4x3 screen with a comparable native height measurement (in pixels) as a widescreen monitor will have more pixels in the horizontal measure.

Regardless of inches, a 1600x1050 widescreen is most acurately compared to a 1280x1024 monitor, but there's roughtly a third more visible area horizontally. That 1280x1024 pixels fits inside a 1600x1050 pixel screen, yet for Bioshock, a game set to a similar vertical resolution LOSES data at the top and bottom of the screen, it doesn't gain data in the horizontal as it should. It loses the data even though the player's viewpoint does not change if you switch between the two modes.

For the others saying it's not like a movie because you can't change the view in a movie, that's not the point. The point is that the viewable area is REDUCED, not increased. This results in data that should be available to the viewer going missing. If a movie was suddenly missing data, people would complain. That's what essentially happens in pan and scan, and any DVD that's a fullscreen movie.

[Fartacus]

You don't compare by inches, because those are taken diagonally.
Compare by native resolution.

A 24" Widescreen is generally 1920x1200.

That is 320 more pixels than a 4:3 1600x1200 native res monitor.

Why shouldn't a widescreen monitor with 20% more horizontal screen space show more than a 4:3 screen?

I'm quite aware that monitors are measured on the diagonal. That's why I explicitly said take a 20" WIDE 16:9 aspect ratio display and a 20" WIDE 4:3 aspect ratio display. Why should the 4:3 aspect ratio display be "cropped on the sides"?

[johnperkins21]

I thought the demo felt like I was pressing the zoom button, now I know why. Kind of a bummer, but I'll still enjoy playing the game. It would be great if they could fix this with a patch, but I doubt it's possible on the 360.

[Disgustipated]

ONCE AGAIN, I believe this can be fixed on the PC version simply by editing the INI files to change the FOV. Not hard, guys! Give it a try.

[Hemalin]

I'm quite aware that monitors are measured on the diagonal. That's why I explicitly said take a 20" WIDE 16:9 aspect ratio display and a 20" WIDE 4:3 aspect ratio display. Why should the 4:3 aspect ratio display be "cropped on the sides"?

Isn't that like asking why my 50" TV isn't displaying more than my 20" TV? You shouldn't be comparing size but rather resolution.

[Sir Kodiak]

One of the two versions was going to end up with a smaller viewing area, either in terms of horizontal or vertical degrees. Making the decision as to which is going to have the smaller area should be done by independently deciding for each screen ratio what viewing area makes the most sense in terms of gameplay and the visual experience.
Typically, horizontal viewing area is more important in a shooter than vertical, so it makes sense to match these for the two screen ratios supported. Considering the time and attention to detail Bioshock was given, I'm willing to trust Irrational on this one.

If you're using a 4:3 TV or monitor to play, just decide if you're happy with the image you have. If you feel the need to compare to a widescreen TV, just tell yourself they have a cropped image.

If you're using a 16:9 TV or monitor to play, just decide if you're happy with the image you have. if you feel the need to compare to a fullscreen TV, just tell yourself that the scenes weren't properly composed for them and they're seeing too much, akin to the visible boom-mike example given earlier in this thread.

In either case, though, your time would best be spent playing what is an incredible game. It looks stunning and is a blast to play in both.

[Shodan2020]

This is the first I've ever heard of playing games in a widescreen mode. I thought widescreen was only for movies and stuff. Doesn't matter to me, I never use widescreen for videogames. :)

[Purple Santa]

So does all this mean I should send my copy back to Gamestop? :rolleyes:

[Chainblast]

Once you go wide you don't go back...

Still, I actually didn't notice the trick but am rather disappointed to learn of its existence. One would think a cutting edge game would support true widescreen, considering the direction the industry is headed. I don't know, it still looks good and that's all that matters.

It could be worse...

[ÜberJumper]

Fartacus:

Because there's less screen realestate on a 4x3 monitor (or 5x4 monitor if talking about 1280x1024) if you measure it in pixels to a comparable monitor with the same pixel dimension in height. The baseline for measuring is the height (in pixels).

[Rogue_hunter]

playing 1680x1050 (16:10), there hasn't been any missing part of the screen for me. just my personal experience

[ÜberJumper]

Rogue:

Take a look at this image:

http://wsgfmedia.com/uploads/paddywak/screenshots/bioshock/BioshockFOV.jpg

Can you see his wrist?

[Crowe]

I simply couldn't care less, I won't be letting something so trivial ruin my experience.

[Maskatron]

You are the only other person to say something about the botched subtitles. They need fixed!


Yeah, I noticed this on the PC and 360 demos.

[laggerific]

Well, Ken had this to say on the 2k forum:

"Hey guys-

Sorry about all the conflict. IG development people (specifically Chris and Rowan who are both on vacation) were trying to take a day off today (we've been working about six months 6-7 days a week). I'm trying to see what everybody's concerns are and consult with the staff.

I know people are frustrated, but we are dealing with internet time here. It wasn't until 7 pm EST that I was able to even talk to anybody in our Australian studio, which is open today (9 AM their time).

I hear you that not everybody was thrilled with the PC launch. And I'm trying to collect information and see what the facts are. PC game development does not function in a matter of seconds or hours, especially when most of the team is on vacation. But I hear you, and we're looking into the issue. I'll only ask you have a bit of understanding as to the time scale that software development issues must occur in.

Best regards,

Ken Levine"

Nice to see...I've had to troubleshoot stuff with folks from Sydney, and it is a bit of a nightmare.

[TheGamer]

The Aspect Ratio is still correct, however it would be nice to have "proper widescreen" where I gain extra visuals on the side instead of losing precious vertical space, when those Spider Splicers are climbing all around on the Ceiling I was wishing I could see a bit further up, It is really a nit picky thing to complain about, I just think it is funny for a game that is so good that such a silly detail can be overlooked.

Oh well It is still amazing, A patch would make i better though.

Playing on 360.

[Bydo_Empire]

It's amazing what people will find to complain about. Sometimes I really don't get this generation of gamers.

[Crowe]

It's amazing what people will find to complain about. Sometimes I really don't get this generation of gamers.

Yeah it's beyond me too. I just couldn't give a fuck if I tried too.

[StANTo]

Official word is "We're all on holiday so we can't do anything about it at the moment, but we will, kthxbai"

[DangerousDaze]

Shit, I'd play it with half the screen missing.

[Fartacus]

Fartacus:

Because there's less screen realestate on a 4x3 monitor (or 5x4 monitor if talking about 1280x1024) if you measure it in pixels to a comparable monitor with the same pixel dimension in height. The baseline for measuring is the height (in pixels).

The baseline is width. You say po-tah-to, I say po-tay-to.

[51|RandoM]

Shit, I'd play it with half the screen missing.

Half my screen is missing most of the time, maybe I should turn up the gamma a bit. :D

[laggerific]

supposedly they put together a fix at widescreengamingforum, but I can't see it from where I am at...this issue does appear to have caused some havoc at 2k's forums database.

[alleycatsphinx]

Waive. AS DESIGNED. Stfu.

The game was made for widescreen, widescreen is the correct format size.

The 4:3 gets to see more vertically because thats how the projection method (correct for both screens) works it out. However, the wide screen is preferred correct view.

People complain about the stupidest things.

[Pluvious]

After playing Bioshock last night for a long period..(almost finished the second map zone) I've come to the conclusion that the FOV is indeed way to close and the game would greatly benefit with a FOV of say 80 to 90 instead of this current 60. (aprox)
If any of you guys have PREY on the 360 .. pop that in and see what 100 FOV looks like. Its a little fisheye like.. but by 'pulling out' the view, you can see more of surroundings.
Its pretty much a non issue with the PC version since you can just edit the .ini file, but us console users are stuck with what is hard coded.
I doubt a patch will come for adjustable FOV but I believe it should be a standard option on ALL fps and more imporantly on consoles. They allow us to turn off V-Sync in the 360 version for 'increased framerate' (bottom of option screen) why not FOV?..

Now.. that's the FOV rant.. but this other problem .. (matting) is compounding the problem. Having the game cut off the 'safe zone' and 'cropping' the image is pushing the view even farther in 'seperate' from the FOV issue. Maybe they can patch that aspect..

The thing is.. this game is soo freakin cool I can cut them some slack...

[Telefrog]

Just an update, but here's the official word (http://www.2kgames.com/cultofrapture/home.html) from the 2K rep:

Instead of cropping the FOV for 4:3 displays and making all 4:3 owners mad in doing so, we slightly extended the vertical FOV for standard def mode: we never wanted to have black bars on people’s displays. (This way, everybody is happy…) This does mean that people playing on a standard def display see slightly more vertical space, but, this does not significantly affect the game-play experience and, we felt that it best served our goal of keeping the game experience as close as possible to the original design and art vision on both types of displays. Reports of the widescreen FOV being a crop of the 4:3 FOV are completely false.

One thing we can assure you that all these decisions were made with the best interests of the game in mind. We didn’t save any money or development time by choosing this set of parameters. We did what we thought was the best thing for the game: developing and optimizing it for widescreen displays, and making the decision not to do the usual crop for 4:3 displays. As a consumer, you certainly have the right to disagree.

We understand that not all users might not be happy with these choices and we will be looking into options for allowing users to adjust FOV settings manually. But as we mentioned earlier, changes to video game code do not happen in minutes or hours. We appreciate your understanding.

Translation: widescreen players got screwed.

[alleycatsphinx]

You quote an article you clearly don't understand, and then make a kneejerk slackjaw determination.

How much clearer do you need it - they didn't make widescreen smaller, they made 4:3 bigger. All they did was NOT screw over 4:3 players.

Are you just mad that 4:3 players weren't cropped?

People are just willfully ignorant.

[Goronmon]

How much clearer do you need it - they didn't make widescreen smaller, they made 4:3 bigger. All they did was NOT screw over 4:3 players. Do you even realize how silly this statement sounds?

Are you just mad that 4:3 players weren't cropped?To borrow a page from your book, I'm not mad that 4:3 users see more, I'm mad that I'll see less.

[Rogue_hunter]

Rogue:

Take a look at this image:

http://wsgfmedia.com/uploads/paddywak/screenshots/bioshock/BioshockFOV.jpg

Can you see his wrist?
sorry about the long delay, been doing other stuff.
with the wrench, no, i don't see the wrist. however, the radio GUI is normal, and i see the wrist tattoos (which are very odd, look like chains) when holding every other weapon/using plasmids