Next-Gen.biz On The GameCube

[mister_slim]

Next-Gen.biz (http://www.next-gen.biz/) has an editorial (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=322&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=0) reviewing "Nintendo's flawed performance in the fight to survive against its mightier rivals."
Controllers aside, Nintendo has rarely been a hardware pioneer. Deliberately shunning the developer-unfriendly complexities of PlayStation 2's Emotion Engine, GameCube's simpler custom chipsets also helped Nintendo deliver a cheaper machine. But it was also a less-capable machine - the proprietary disc format means it can't play DVDs, the graphics are often noticeably flatter, and there's no in-built Internet support.
It's an interesting read with some good points. Don't miss the first paragraph of the "Style Over Content" section.

[SMES]

Not a single new point made, except this one which happens to be just plain wrong:

"the graphics are often noticeably flatter"

Maybe he forgot to put his glasses on or something, but last I checked the graphics on gamecube are often on par with xbox.

[51|RandoM]

less-capable at anything other than being a game console, lol.

I really don't know where he is coming from on the graphics, either. Every game that exists on both platforms looks equal or better on cube.

Well, it is an editorial, so we'll just have to assume that particular editor doesn't know wtf he is talking about. :-) Won't be a first in videogame journalism...

[Heretic Machine]

The GC's graphics are nearly indistinguishable with the XBOX's. Both are leaps and bounds above the PS2's. The fact that the GC was also cheaper than it's competitors only adds another point to it's cause. Then there is the whole "no built-in internet support"... Well, the XBOX is the only one that shipped with internet support out of the box, if I remembe correctly. Not being able to play DVD's really isn't a huge draw-back, considering that you could just buy a cheap DVD player that probably works better than the PS2's for the price of a Gamecube and the player itself.

In conclusion, GC > PS2.

[Rommel]

Well, where are we comparing graphics? Are we comparing the best looking games on the system, or the various multiplatform titles? Such questions make all the difference.

[EvilBob46]

Some good points, and some bad ones. The author called the Gamecube (in comparison to the PS2) a "less-capable machine" and then referred to the graphics on the Cube as "oftentimes being flatter." Games like Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4 have proven the system's capabilities and it most certainly isn't less capable from a technical stand point of view.

As for the proprietary disc format, if anything else it has kept piracy at bay. There is nothing easier these days than modding a PS2 or XBox (even without a modchip) to run illegal software, and the same can not be said of the Gamecube. A Phantasy Star Online exploit that was found long ago was highly incompatible with many games, and the first Gamecube modchip was only released about 7 months ago (not sure about its impact or "success"). EDIT: By the way, I'm not denying that many mainstream users are turned off by not being able to play music CDs and DVDs on the cube or that this didn't hurt publisher relations, I'm just saying that a more secure format might have been more beneficial to Nintendo, and their profits, in the long run.

For some reason, I find the comment by the author about Grand Theft Auto 3 ("the most significant creative shift in 21st Century gaming so far") and how it "passed the Gamecube by" a bit odd. Not sure if this is about a lack of mature games for Gamecube or a lack of open ended games...or a lack of killer applications? I can only speculate on what he's up to.

The comments about Nintendo's lack of invention are a bit weird also. The article fails to mention the Nintendo DS while talking about the topic (top of 2nd page), but as an example of "invention and success" mentions Sony's EyeToy? *laugh*

[Nessus]

I honestly like my GameCube more than I liked my N64. I've bought more games for it and enjoyed it more. For what I'm looking for in a console it was hardly a failure.

I've also enjoyed my GameCube more than my PS2.

Though my modded Xbox's expanded capabilities have had me playing that more than either of them lately.

As for the article, what does "flatter" mean?

I can't think of any GameCube multiplatform game that didn't at least look as good as the PS2 version.

Prerendered cinemas on GameCube multiplatform games might look worse than those on PS2, but even cinemas on Xbox games often have pretty bad artifacing (look at KOTOR or Riddick).

[Rommel]

The article does mention the DS, several times in fact. The article is pertains solely to Nintendo as it relates to its GCN.

[Nintendo Revolution]

"the graphics are often noticeably flatter"

*Playing Resident Evil 4 on GameCube*

Hey Steve, look at those graphics, they are noticably flatter.

You know what man, you are absolutely right.

*Playing Resident Evil 4 on PS2*

There we go, that's better! And now we can play DVDs and go online out of the box...erm...yay!

[Rafer]

As for the proprietary disc format, if anything else it has kept piracy at bay. There is nothing easier these days than modding a PS2 or XBox (even without a modchip) to run illegal software, and the same can not be said of the Gamecube.

Funny thing is, the xbox has the most piracy of the three consoles, yet has the highest software attach rate (games sold per system) of the three. I don't think piracy has been a big deal for this generation of consoles.

While including a DVD player helped the PS2 a lot (when the PS2 came out DVD players were uncommon and cost $200), I don't think the Gamecube was hurt too much by leaving it out. I'm surprised the Revolution is going the DVD route.

[haujob]

I enjoy my 'Cube. I really do. It is one of the best toys I have ever owned. And it has the types of games I like.

Where I get confused is: I'm 27 years old. I'm married, going to grad school, have a job, pay my taxes, yada, yada, yada. But because I like to play Pikmin and Crystal Chronicles, I'm not an adult? I don't like Grand Theft Auto. I think it's asinine. I don't like FPS games; the Halos and Dooms are lost on me. And because I wanted to collect Shines instead of pretend to be the Master Chief, that makes me mentally retarded?

Nintendo is still quite successful in its native country, and trying to impose American sensibilities on their business practices is a little naive. Of course, I don't get paid for op-ed pieces...

Fanboy, anti-fanboy... whatever works for people I guess. But if we were to apply his logic to the film industry, all those 'god-awful' PG-13 films like Spider-Man 2 or Lord of the Rings would be painfully inadequate to all the X-rated offerings that 'real' grown-ups should be watching.

[Nintendo Revolution]

Exactly haujob. People generalize. Nintendo does not make games specifically for kids, they make games for everyone. There is a difference.

Also, I couldn't agree more with the piracy post. You can pirate on the GameCube, it is entirely possible, but you need to go through a long and tedious exploit and most of the accessories to do so aren't even on the market anymore. It's also worth noting this exploit took nearly 2 and a half years after GCN's launch and is still noted to be slow and buggy, even still to this day. Compared to Xbox and PS2 piracy, which is near flawless and was available on the scene in 6 months or less from the hardware launch. Proprietary disks a flaw? I think not.

It's Nintendo's interest to make profit from their consoles day one. Whereas Microsoft, and now Sony with the PSP (and soon the PS3) rely on software sales. Nintendo doesn't, or at least didn't care about selling more than their competitor in this generation., they care about making profitable money. it's not to say they won't boast about it if it happens, but if it cuts into their profits, they will stick their traditional course. Sure, Microsoft is in 2nd place (and only by a slim 1-2 million units), but think about how much money they had to lose to get there and PS2 is still 50+ million units farther. Nintendo has been making money since day one with their console, and the only time they saw a slight decrease in profit was when they price dropped to $99, but the results helped them sell many, many consoles.

Maybe from the mainstream gamers perspective, Nintendo is doing bad, on the edge of becoming third party, etc, etc, etc, but from an investors perspective, they are doing extremely well. GameBoy sales anyone? Nintendo DS? We need not even go there.

I guess here's another chance to slip this in, it seems like everytime this type of discussion comes aboard, this clears a few heads.

http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php

[Oppe]

Only an idiot would completely dismiss the chances of a Nintendo come back, or even its achievements with GameCube.

What exactly makes this article not a complete dismissal of Nintendo's achievments with the Gamecube? Besides the paragraph that quote resides in, of course.

[Royal Fool]

Some kids will grow up into loyal fanboys who will swoop for Revolution simply for its backwards-compatible capabilities, but not all. A more coherent argument says the only reason Nintendo is still in the hardware business is because it is catering for the younger audience that Sony and Microsoft have lifted their sights from. That may be true, but again, gamers are getting older, en masse. Nintendo may find its market share decreasing with every generation.

That paragraph is stupid beyond words... or maybe not, since it contains words.

"Gamers" are only growing older in the sense that they age. Does that mean their tastes change? Does that mean that the market demographic does not receive fresh new consumers each year? Does it mean that games must include blood, have gangster slang, contain nudity, have lots and lots of explosion, be bundled/developed with advertisements and product placement in mind to be considered worthy of playing?

No. But the author must think so, which is the only way I can explain his reasoning.

Pretty depressing and negative article overall. True, it mostly focuses on the GameCube, but still I find it somewhat unfair.

[Kelegacy]

I buy consoles to play games. Anything else is an unnecessary frill. I like extras though, and use my PS2 to play DVD movies. But when I buy a Nintendo product, I know its main focus is going to be videogaming, and usually it does it near perfection. When companies focus on videogaming instead of face plates, custom MP3 tracks, or new media players, I tend to pay attention. Nintendo is one such company.

A Nintendo system is one you can afford at launch; the others, because of their doodads and expensive "computer-like" equipment that I will probably never use, make me wait until at least the first price drop.

[see colon]

beyond the complaints others have brought up with the article, isn't it kind of pointless to be looking at the faults gamecube has this late in the game? we are 3-4 months away from the first console of the next generation.

other things are more important, like WTF is nintendo planning for revolution?

[Achilles]

I think the GTA comment was referring to open-endedness, it isn’t any revolutionary thing to have a mature game. Nintendo games aren’t very open ended as a rule. Animal Crossing is though.

Rafer had a great point about piracy not affecting sales of Xbox games. If pirates were numerous enough to have an impact it wouldn’t have the highest attach rate of the 3 systems. "Gamers" are only growing older in the sense that they age. Does that mean their tastes change?I know mine have, not because I want mature games but because I’m getting to the point where I can’t stand old-school gameplay. I couldn’t play Frogger for hours on end anymore, or Space Invaders, my tastes have changes and I like games that are more open-ended, more complex, more story driven and so on. Kids have a much easier time performing the same task over and over, but adults realize that losing to a boss 90 times because they've intentionally made how to win unintuitive is just the game wasting their time. Pikmin is a good example of this; I liked that game quite a bit till I got stuck on a puzzle and realized that I may no longer be able to get to the end without automatically losing and having to start over.

[PotatoNinja]

*ahem*

*cough cough*

!!!OMFG NINTENDO IS TEH DOOMED!!!!

[Paranoia]

Funny thing is, the xbox has the most piracy of the three consoles, yet has the highest software attach rate (games sold per system) of the three. I don't think piracy has been a big deal for this generation of consoles.

I don't think so. Have you been to South East Asia countries? The piracy rate for the PS2 is even higher, given the popularity of the console among Asians because Japanese influence is huge over there. There are more counterfeit games for the PS2 being sold compared to Xbox, and people can pretty much buy a modded PS2 off the shelf. Because of Xbox taste geared towards western, the demand for the console is not much.

However, piracy for Gamecube is close to nothing, my guess is the unique Gamecube discs offer a very good protection. Then again no one over there wants a Gamecube anyway.

[Kelegacy]

Funny thing is, the xbox has the most piracy of the three consoles, yet has the highest software attach rate (games sold per system) of the three. I don't think piracy has been a big deal for this generation of consoles.

While including a DVD player helped the PS2 a lot (when the PS2 came out DVD players were uncommon and cost $200), I don't think the Gamecube was hurt too much by leaving it out. I'm surprised the Revolution is going the DVD route.

Games sold per system? Is that a fact, or just an idea? I would think with Sony's huge install base, that games sold per system would be in Sony's favor. Besides Halo and Halo 2, I cant think of any astronomical sales. And GTA:SA blew Halo 2 out of the water when it was a PS2-only game. Most of the big sellers for Sony sell millions and millions, whereas the best sellers for GC and Xbox typically sell less, many times not even a million at all.

Or maybe I'm just confused by your statement. It's late and I'm about to hit the hay.

[Nintendo Revolution]

Correct. While Halo 2 had more hype, GTA: San Andreas has sold much more than Halo 2. Think about it, Xbox userbase? Roughly 20 million. PS2 userbase? Roughly 80 million.

Still, Half-Life 2 has outsold GTA: SA. So take that consoles!

[anakin876]

I guess here's another chance to slip this in, it seems like everytime this type of discussion comes aboard, this clears a few heads.

http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php

very interesting article (this one that is linked here). Thanks for giving me hope that Nintendo will not fall by the wayside anytime soon.

[Achilles]

Correct. While Halo 2 had more hype, GTA: San Andreas has sold much more than Halo 2. Think about it, Xbox userbase? Roughly 20 million. PS2 userbase? Roughly 80 million. Still, Half-Life 2 has outsold GTA: SA. So take that consoles!Attach rate is a real statistic and it's true that the Xbox has the highest attach rate. Part of the reason can be explained using the Halo 2 vs GTA:SA example: In order to get a 50% attach rate Halo 2 has to sell 10 million units. To get the same attach rate GTA:SA would have to sell 40 million. So the fact that there are more PS2s out there doesn't really help their attach rate. Every month the Xbox has about as many games in the top 10 as the PS2, really the software sales numbers are about the same for the two systems despite the higher PS2 install base, this is why the Xbox has more games sold per system.

I'm surprised about HL2 outselling GTA:SA and Halo 2, are there any public numbers on that?

[51|RandoM]

If you've got actual figures with xbox having the highest attach rate, there has to be a catch somewhere, because it isn't what I've seen at *anybody's* house over the course of this generation.

I know a bunch of people with all 3 consoles, and they've always got more ps2 titles than anything else---simply because of the extent of the ps2 library, backwards compatibility with ps, etc.---, then it is usually a toss up between x-box and cube. If they're a fan of the traditional nintendo properties, then they've usually got more cube games than xbox games.

I can see x-box having a higher attach rate during some very short window of time, but overall? I wouldn't believe it if God gave it to me chiseled on stone tablets, delivered by a burning bush with Allard's voice.

[agentgray]

But it was also a less-capable machine...
Har har har. I guess this article got what it wanted: readers.

Troll

[Lodin]

Feh, the bottom line is that Ninty's making money on the Cube so they're not going anywhere. Crappy article.

[Rafer]

If you've got actual figures with xbox having the highest attach rate, there has to be a catch somewhere, because it isn't what I've seen at *anybody's* house over the course of this generation.

Well microsoft always releases press releases about their attach rate (google 'xbox attach rate'), but after taking a second look I noticed they'll say something like "22 months from launch", so they're comparing themselves to the PS2 from a year earlier.

And keep in mind if someone owns 12 games and bought a second replacement PS2, then statistically that's an attach rate of 6. If the stories of the PS2 being fragile are true (my PS2 still works and I don't know of anyone personally that's had to replace theirs) then that could also explain the PS2 having a lower attach rate.

Anyway my point was I don't think the Gamecube's anti-piracy measures, while effective, helped or hurt it much.

[mister_slim]

Funny thing is, the xbox has the most piracy of the three consoles, yet has the highest software attach rate (games sold per system) of the three. I don't think piracy has been a big deal for this generation of consoles.
That's true. I think that's in large part due to the audience Xbox aimed for, the hardcore players, the people who play many games (people like me, I suppose). Nothing wrong with catering to an audience, obviously. There are two problems, though. First, the audience is smaller. The number of people who would get a PS2 and buy Madden and maybe another game each year is rather larger than the audience who will buy two or three games every month. Second, if you are losing large amounts of money on each console, you have to sell a lot of software to recover those costs. If I bought an Xbox and one game, MS is out a chunk of money. On the other hand, I bought my brother a GC. He's bought one game thus far, a Player's Choice game, I believe. Nintendo has not made much money off him, but they aren't losing money either.

[51|RandoM]

You really think x-box is aimed at hardcore players? I consider myself pretty hardcore, and out of 3 consoles and my pc, the xbox is my least favorite when you get right down to it.

There are almost no exclusive games for it, it is almost just a halo/halo2 box for me. I've got about 15 other games for it, but none of them got more than a few days play.

[Kelegacy]

You really think x-box is aimed at hardcore players? I consider myself pretty hardcore, and out of 3 consoles and my pc, the xbox is my least favorite when you get right down to it.

There are almost no exclusive games for it, it is almost just a halo/halo2 box for me. I've got about 15 other games for it, but none of them got more than a few days play.

That's why I didnt buy an Xbox until the end of last fall. I mostly play MVP 2005 and...well, that's about it. I could play that on my PS2 i guess. Still, right now I'm enjoying Psychonauts (again, a PS2/PC game) and i had fun with Jade Empire and Fable, even if they were a bit lacking. When I'm in the mood for a Japanes RPG, i head over to my PS2. For 1st party exclusives, my GC. For western influenced mayhem, my Xbox. But yeah, it gets the least amount of play time from me as well, at least in terms of amount of different games played.

[jacktion]

I guess here's another chance to slip this in, it seems like everytime this type of discussion comes aboard, this clears a few heads.

http://nintendoinsider.com/site/EEEZuAypVuTuOJPzyb.php


Nintendo wins!!

[Hellstorm]

Nintendo wins!!

In the end, they always do. Should come as no surprise. Now back to the ultra surreal Killer 7.

[Kelegacy]

In the end, they always do. Should come as no surprise. Now back to the ultra surreal Killer 7.

Well, you can play it for PS2 as well. But I agree, in the end I'm always happy with my Nintendo purchases. Now they just need to sign some exclusivity deals with 3rd parties. Sure, that's probably not going to happen because they aren't that type of company, but it'd be nice to see more 3rd parties on the console. Besides the Mario and gang exclusives.

[see colon]

Now they just need to sign some exclusivity deals with 3rd parties. Sure, that's probably not going to happen because they aren't that type of company, but it'd be nice to see more 3rd parties on the console.
huh? nintendo has a long tradition of 3rd party exclusives, including adding additional content to franchises (look at early n64 games that were on other systems), getting exclusive rights to whole series for a certain amount of time (resident evil), and allegations of strong-arming 3rd parties into making games for them and not the competition (durring the nes and snes years).

the gamecube itself had a slew of 3rd party exclusives, most of which noone cared about (mgs: twin snakes, for example). and recently, they've started adding extra content to multiplatform titles (pretty much anything made by ea this year)

[mister_slim]

You really think x-box is aimed at hardcore players? I consider myself pretty hardcore, and out of 3 consoles and my pc, the xbox is my least favorite when you get right down to it.
Who is it aimed at then? Not children (no software), not casual gamers (most complex and unfriendly controller and software), and not women (mostly shooters). And the physical design screams "I am a man's game console. I am a dangerous military device!"

I guess there's at least two strains of hardcore gamers: console (JRPGs, platformers, etc) and PC (hardware performance, FPS, etc). Generalizations, certainly, but both groups buy games fairly frequently, and are targeted by publishers (I'd love to steal EA's market research data).

[Zanzibar]

If you've got actual figures with xbox having the highest attach rate, there has to be a catch somewhere, because it isn't what I've seen at *anybody's* house over the course of this generation.

I know a bunch of people with all 3 consoles, and they've always got more ps2 titles than anything else---simply because of the extent of the ps2 library, backwards compatibility with ps, etc.---, then it is usually a toss up between x-box and cube. If they're a fan of the traditional nintendo properties, then they've usually got more cube games than xbox games.

I can see x-box having a higher attach rate during some very short window of time, but overall? I wouldn't believe it if God gave it to me chiseled on stone tablets, delivered by a burning bush with Allard's voice.

I skewed that attach rate a bit. I've got upwards of 45 Xbox games.

[bobbler]

I've heard the rumor that Xbox has the highest attach rate, but all the data I've seen (that wasn't made up by forum user joe) has said that PS2 has a slightly higher attach rate overall. I believe the rumor came from the fact that Xbox has the highest all time first sales attach rate -- game sales when the console was first purchased (Xbox has the highest all time there). Not that it actually matters to consumers, but its funny to see it being used as propaganda.

[Zeal]

Why do people keep saying Next-Gen.biz. It's Next-Generation.

[netcraazzy]

You really think x-box is aimed at hardcore players? I consider myself pretty hardcore, and out of 3 consoles and my pc, the xbox is my least favorite when you get right down to it.

There are almost no exclusive games for it, it is almost just a halo/halo2 box for me. I've got about 15 other games for it, but none of them got more than a few days play.

First of all the label of hardcore gamer has got to go. There is NO easy way to define a hardcore gamer. What makes a gamer hardcore? Is it the number of games bought, type of games played, number of hours spent playing games, number of games beat? The only one of those that really matters in the end to a company is the number of games bought.

That being said, the xbox is definitely geared towards men in their mid-teen to late 20's. I think the college-age crowd in particular is one that MS pays a lot of attention to. Just look at Microsoft’s advertising and you'll see that's the type of people they put in their ads. I think Sony spends a lot of effort catering to that same crowd.

I think one of the reasons that Nintendo is often seen as childish and not making any progress is because they have not turned to pop-culture like Sony and MS. Lately Nintendo has been trying to make games for everybody not just typical gamers. They try to bring the games to the people so to speak. Sony and MS try to bring the people to the games by injecting their brand image into pop culture.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

No, I did read that the Xbox had the highest attach rate of any console at this stage in its lifecycle. For the PS2, that would have to be far too many games to be sold to keep up the attach rate. PS2 will probably top 100 million sold soon. That means to have an attach rate the size of the Xbox, they would have to have sold more than 770,000,000 games. I don't believe they have sold that many.
However, when I read that the Xbox had the highest attach rate, the Xbox only had sold roughly 20 million consoles. So 140 milllion units of software sold isn't out of the ballpark...but Halo 2 only sold 6.3 million at the time...what else moved the other 133.7 million units? Oh yeah, Bruce Lee: Fist of the Dragon rocked!!

Here is the quote from Microsoft's own fiscal report:
"Home and Entertainment revenue increased in the second quarter primarily due to significant new product launches. In the second quarter of fiscal 2005, Xbox revenue increased $180 million or 20% mainly due to the introduction of Halo 2, which generated approximately $300 million in revenue. This was partially offset by a decline in Xbox consoles revenue resulting from price reductions in the third quarter of fiscal 2004 accompanied by flat Xbox consoles volume. The Xbox life-to-date U.S. games attach rate increased to 7.7 games per console according to industry analyst NPD as of December 31, 2004. Revenue from consumer hardware and software, PC games, and TV platforms declined $40 million or 11% compared to fiscal 2004 due to lower PC games software sales. For the six months ended December 31, 2004, Home and Entertainment revenue increased mainly because of an increase in Xbox revenue of $251 million or 21% due to strong product launches, partially offset by a $60 million or 10% decline related to consumer hardware and software, PC games, and TV platforms."

You can find a copy of this at fatbabies.com....link below...
http://www.fatbabies.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=5146&highlight=&

But what this should also tell you is how important the PS3 launch is to Sony. As off as MS profits looked, Sony's were way lower. The PS2 has such market saturation that they probably won't have many more people to sell the console to.