Grand Theft Auto IV Delayed Until 2008

[DeadlyDonkey]

Take Two announced today that the latest in the GTA franchise will be delayed until Summer 2008 (http://ir.take2games.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=258238)


Take-Two is reducing its fiscal 2007 guidance primarily to reflect the movement of the launch of Grand Theft Auto IV for the PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system and the Xbox 360™ video game and entertainment system from the fourth quarter of fiscal 2007 to fiscal 2008, due to additional development time required to complete the title. The title is now planned for release in the Company's second quarter of fiscal 2008. Additionally, Take-Two is updating third quarter and fiscal year 2007 guidance to reflect the movement of Manhunt 2 for the PlayStation®2 computer


So, with some of the (very) rough screenshots of GTAIV hitting the web, who was really surprised?

Editor - Thanks to the many others that sumbitted this news

[torrefaction]

Very rough screenshots of GTAIV? Are you kidding. You must be looking at a different game.

[Skytram]

Take Two is taking some major hits this year...

[eth3rton]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/ETH3RTON/Cartman1-1.jpg

[roboninja]

While I would question calling the screenshots I have seen rough, it is not surprising a GTA game is being pushed back. Has it ever gone any other way?

[Fonz]

Dammit the Poster did not use "DROPS A MEGATON"... very disappointed. :-p

[fatefodder]

Well, this is probably the least painful holiday for it to be delayed; saves me a little bit of money, and a lot of time.

I wonder if some November releases will experience "unforseen progress" and get pushed forward into October?

Namco must be wetting themselves in relief for Ace Combat 6, slated to launch one week after Grand Theft Auto IV's previous October 16th release date.

[Rune_74]

Heh...so um....whats out for the ps3 this fall then?

[Fonz]

Well, this is probably the least painful holiday for it to be delayed; saves me a little bit of money, and a lot of time.

I wonder if some November releases will experience "unforseen progress" and get pushed forward into October?

Namco must be wetting themselves in relief for Ace Combat 6, slated to launch one week after Grand Theft Auto IV's previous October 16th release date.

I am with you, maybe we will see some September release schedule games like Jericho and Blacksite: Area 51 get pushed back to October now that GTA is gone.

[biosc1]

Agreed. I hope by summer 2008 they do not mean August. Early July would be perfect.

[Gorvi]

I am with you, maybe we will see some September release schedule games like Jericho and Blacksite: Area 51 get pushed back to October now that GTA is gone.
Blacksite was delayed (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6176030.html?part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6176030) until December already.

[Fonz]

Heh...so um....whats out for the ps3 this fall then?

Black Site: Area 51, Wipe Out HD, Heavenly Sword, GT5: Prolouge, Unreal Tournament 3,Ratchet and Clank Future , Uncharted,Socom Confrontations, Warhawk and Folklore .

[Hemalin]

Heh...so um....whats out for the ps3 this fall then?

There's still Ratchet, Uncharted, WipEout HD, SOCOM Confrontation, UT3, Assassin's Creed, Folklore, Heavenly Sword, Half Life 2 Orange Box, Warhawk, DiRT, Hot Shots Golf 5, LittleBigPlanet (public open beta), Conan, Army of Two, Mercenaries 2, Call of Duty 4, Haze, Kane & Lynch, Rock Band, Guitar Hero 3, etc......

That viewpost button is pretty cool.

[Telefrog]

Thank God for my poor wallet. Seriously, it needs as many of these games spread out as possible.

[Fonz]

Blacksite was delayed (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6176030.html?part=rss&tag=gs_news&subj=6176030) until December already.

*Knocks on wood*.

[bapenguin]

So much for Microsoft's Perfect Storm strategy.

[Rune_74]

So the only game they basically have is Heavenly sword...everything else is multiplatform or not system sellers?

[Hemalin]

So the only game they basically have is Heavenly sword...everything else is multiplatform or not system sellers?

How is that any different than Microsoft?

[Rune_74]

Um Halo 3, mass effect, bioshock, blue dragon, lost oddessy (maybe) just to name a few....and those are just the exclusives.

[Khash]

So the only game they basically have is Heavenly sword...everything else is multiplatform or not system sellers?
Oh, I wasn't aware that all of Sony's first party games had been canceled. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Hemalin]

Um Halo 3, mass effect, bioshock, blue dragon, lost oddessy (maybe) just to name a few....and those are just the exclusives.

So the only game they basically have is Halo...everything else is multiplatform or not system sellers?

[Gorvi]

Um Halo 3, mass effect, bioshock, blue dragon, lost oddessy (maybe) just to name a few....and those are just the exclusives.
So you've got System Seller 3, largely unknown, largely unknown, largely unknown, and largely unknown. System sellers to the hardcore, but any random gamer on the street would say "Huh?".

[Rune_74]

Ok mass effect who has won numerous awards as game of the shows....you don't think that will sell...ok:)

Even if you take just halo3 it trumps heavenly sword.

[fatefodder]

Heh...so um....whats out for the ps3 this fall then?

Impetus for Sony to properly market and reorganize the timing of Heavenly Sword, Rachet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction, and Uncharted: Drake's Fortune. Maybe even Lair (I'm fully aware of the game's quality, trust me). In my opinion, most everything else is peripheral, registering considerably less on the system-seller scale.

This could either be an opportunity for Sony to capitalize on this holiday season's HD adoption and create brand awareness to pave the way for Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots, or it could end up being a beating from Halo 3.

It's not the end of the world. There are tens of millions of PLAYSTATION 2 owners who equate Grand Theft Auto with Sony's consoles; Sony just has to work to keep them.

[bKangy]

Thank fuck, this combined with the UT3 delay means I can afford what I want this winter.

As for the 360 big sellers issue, are you really trying to say the PS3 can compete? There's already a proven MASSIVE attach rate for games per 360, so things like Mass Effect will sell fantastically. As for multiplatform titles, they're bound to do far better. For people buying a new console the 360 is going to be far cheaper, and there's already people who own 360s out there.

[Wslove]

How is that any different than Microsoft?

Halo 3
Mass Effect
PGR4 (I think it's coming out holiday time)

And then there is Bioshock, Blue Dragon and the fact that all the multiplatform first person shooter games are better on Xbox 360 off the bat because the SIXAXIS sucks ass on first person shooters. (And before the SDF chimes in with Resistance you all can stuff it. Game was ok, great for a launch title, and it's controls were built for the regular PS2 controller.). The prissy little triggers feel like they are going to break every time I use them.

[Hemalin]

Even if you take just halo3 it trumps heavenly sword.
I don't recall anyone saying that. There are plenty of good games coming for all 3 systems this holiday. Trying to argue otherwise is just stupid.

[DangerousDaze]

When does Eye of Judgement (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic) come out?

[Wslove]

Speaking of attach rate, I know the 360 controls a commanding lead. However anyone have the latest data on the Wii? Throw in the PS3 numbers as well if you have them but I always wondered if the Wii was selling games in addition to systems.

[torrefaction]

Speaking of attach rate, I know the 360 controls a commanding lead. However anyone have the latest data on the Wii? Throw in the PS3 numbers as well if you have them but I always wondered if the Wii was selling games in addition to systems.

There's no games to attach to the Wii.

[Wslove]

There's no games to attach to the Wii.

There are mini-games though! :D

Zing!

[DeadlyDonkey]

Thank god this has turned into another list thread!

I mean, if there's anything this thread needed, it was another round of Battle Of The Lists (tm).

[Hemalin]

There's no games to attach to the Wii.
I'm sure Wii Sports has a great attach rate.

[Fonz]

Um Halo 3, mass effect, bioshock, blue dragon, lost oddessy (maybe) just to name a few....and those are just the exclusives.

Ok since you like taking Heavenly Sword out of the Equation, Lets take out Halo 3 from the 360.

I'm not saying Heavenly Sword and Halo 3 are on the same level but I'm using your retarded Logic.

So you have... NOT BIOSHOCK thats a PC game too.
Mass Effect,Blue Dragon, Lost Oddessey.
Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted, Folklore, War Hawk.

[Rune_74]

Retarded logic...when all else fails throw out insults:) You cannot compare the lineup of the 360 to ps3 thats just plain facts dude go cry in your corner now.

[Gorvi]

Kids! Play nice! We'll all have good games to play. Now shake hands and make with the civility! ;)

[dvlpr]

Take Two is taking some major hits this year...

This is a major hit not just for Take Two but for any X360 and PS3 developer planning on releasing titles this holiday season. GTA4 is a major system seller and those developers are counting on sales from the console installbase GTA4 was going to create.

Now with the GTA4 delayed lots of companies planning on releases for this holiday season are in shock. Expect over the next couple of months a bunch of anouncements about holiday titles delayed until next year (because of GTA4 which of course won't be officially mentioned as the reason).
The developers of X360 SKUs still have Halo 3 as system pusher, so the PS3 takes the bigger hit - some developers might pospone or even cancel the PS3 SKUs of their games now with GTA4 missing this year ...

[Dag-Sabot]

hmm time to move the deposit on this title to something else.

[Wslove]

Fonz you are compairing apples and oranges. You need to see the real math.

Mass Effect > BIOSHOCK (360 is lead sku) > Rachet and Clank > Uncharted > Folklore > Lost Oddessey > Blue Dragon > Warhawk

And as stated above:

When game genre= First Person Shooter then 360 controller > PS3 controller.

Edit for Gorvi:

When game genre= First Person Shooter then Mouse and Keyboard > 360 controller > PS3 controller.

[The Continental]

They should use this newly allotted time to add a downright spectacular co-op component. I can wait, I'll have Rock Band.

[Wslove]

I find dvlpr to be insightful and informative and I would like to subscribe to his newsletter. Welcome to Evil Avatar.

[Rotting]

Retarded logic...when all else fails throw out insults:) You cannot compare the lineup of the 360 to ps3 thats just plain facts dude go cry in your corner now.

Cute little fan boy.

[Fonz]

Fonz you are compairing apples and oranges. You need to see the real math.

Mass Effect > BIOSHOCK (360 is lead sku) > Rachet and Clank > Uncharted > Folklore > Lost Oddessey > Blue Dragon > Warhawk

And as stated above:

When game genre= First Person Shooter then 360 controller > PS3 controller.

Edit for Gorvi:

When game genre= First Person Shooter then Mouse and Keyboard > 360 controller > PS3 controller.

I think you're missing the point on what was I arguing. On the control scheme, obviously I think my 360 controller was made and feels better than Six Axis for FPS. But like I said before games like Bioshock I prefer playing on PC. But my argument was not the control scheme, only reason I'm bringing it up is because you randomly brought it up with me about FPS games and controls. When people like Random_74 go "DUDE IT'S MATH OK BRO?" and show they're fanboyism it doesn't help their argument.

[Zacharai]

Thank God. I've been trying to regress back into frat boy mode (work out, date, drink, only play football games), and this will make it easier. Here's to hoping for a delay on Bioshock.

[Tricky Thumb]

There are a lot of people being idiots in this thread. Both systems have one less game this holiday season and both systems are going to suffer in sales for it at the end of the day.

[Evil Avnovice]

Off-topic: For anyone wasting valuable posts on Rune_74, I think maybe....just MAYBE....it has something to do with the fact that he came from ps3forums.com (http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=54553).

I may be wrong here, but having noticed the stupidity of his posts, I think that he's better dealt with by being ignored in my opinion.

[TheDancinMan]

It sucks that I have to keep waiting, but I'm really fine with it in the long run. I'm glad they admit that it needs work and push it back a good chunk of time to make it into the game they want it to be instead of rushing it for the holiday. Not that they need to, GTA IV is gonna sell like crazy hotcakes when it does come out.

That, and this means I can keep some of the money I earn this year. Awesome.

[Wslove]

Fonz I'm just saying is that your list, while technically bigger, has at most one mainstream game on it and Mass Effect is simply bigger then every game you gave. Rachet and Clank is the most known of the group and has the widest appeal. Uncharted has yet to prove it's shipping this year, and in all honesty with a quiet falling around it I'm betting it slips into 08. Plus it's a new IP. Folklore won't sell systems, as it too is a new IP, a JRPG, and isn't likely to recieve a huge marketing push to get it known outside the people who play JRPGs anyways. Warhawk is interesting only cause it's being digitally distributed. But as an old IP, a multiplayer only game, and graphics that are not really pushing it when it comes to next gen it's not pushing systems.

The point has been made that GTA 4 was a system pusher. And it is. Especially for the PS3. With it gone till next year Sony is scrambling to find anything that will justify to the holiday shoppers that their black monolith is worth paying way more the compition for. Without the big gun of GTA 4 they have nothing left as everything else is unproven IP, niche genres, or multiplatform. Now they are staring down the barrell of Halo 3 and a still cheaper 360 in addition to the awesome mainstream power of the Wii. If I was head of Sony marketing right now I would be shitting a brick. Because come this holiday season, unless they do something drastic or have something totally awesome up their sleeve, they are going to be eating dust as the 360 and Wii surge ahead.

Course, if you have a PS3, do enjoy the offerings. Sony would sure appreciate it.

[Hemalin]

...they have nothing left as everything else is unproven IP, niche genres, or multiplatform.
And how is Mass Effect not an unproven IP?

[Nicodemus]

Delayed?

Bowl me over with a feather.

[Tricky Thumb]

And how is Mass Effect not an unproven IP?

ME might be an unproven IP but it'll have "FROM THE MAKERS OF KOTOR AND JADE EMPIRE" stickered all over it and people will but it up for that alone.

[Wslove]

And how is Mass Effect not an unproven IP?

The marketing push that Microsoft and and Bioware (via Elevation's money) are going to put behind this game is going to be monster. Just you see. Also, enough game of show awards to plaster your office building in gold and I think you've built enough cred within the gamer community for this to go beyond unproven and niche and place it firmly in the system seller catagory. Though admittedly, the low end of the catagory.

[Zanzibar]

Well, honestly, this is bad news for Microsoft. Any GTA game is a system-seller in its own right. There would have been more than a few GTA fanboys looking at the shocking X360 list of games and the relatively few PS3 games, and would have switched their brand loyalty in order to get a (moderately) affordable system with their favorite franchise. And once you're hooked, you're hooked. Now, they'll likely wait.

[Goronmon]

I actually surprised myself when I read the thread and realized I didn't care at all if GTA was delayed. Maybe it's because I already played the same type of game on the 360, or maybe I just feel like it won't be that much different than the others.

[StGeorge]

There is no way in hell they will release in "middle of 2008" it's October 2008 folks, bank on it. Now can Rockstar explain why they made all this hoopla this year of announcing a date and pretending like nothing was wrong? I hate it when companies do that. Just make your damn game and then on the day you send out the gold master, then you have 2 to 4 weeks to build up the hype to a GUARANTEED release date... geez.

[Dr.Finger]

I was just discussing with some friends how we were going to play GTA4 and Mercenaries 2 at the same time. Now we don't have to.

[Hemalin]

The marketing push that Microsoft and and Bioware (via Elevation's money) are going to put behind this game is going to be monster. Just you see. Also, enough game of show awards to plaster your office building in gold and I think you've built enough cred within the gamer community for this to go beyond unproven and niche and place it firmly in the system seller catagory. Though admittedly, the low end of the catagory.
So it has nothing to do with unproven IP, niches genres, or mulitplatform and everything to do with marketing.

[Wslove]

So it has nothing to do with unproven IP, niches genres, or mulitplatform and everything to do with marketing.

Marketing is going to be used to overcome those forces. And yes, everything comes down to marketing. Look at EA and Activision.

[Metal Jesus]

This is FINE BY ME.

Give me more time to play Bioshock, Mass Effect, Rock Band, Crisis Core, CoD4, etc...etc...etc...

[Rune_74]

What I was getting at and this is pretty simple the ps3 needed this title to come out more the n the 360 did this is obvious. It has less going for it in big names and with less then steller sales so far in order to generate more sales it needs all the games it can get.

I did not come from ps3forums hehehe, however I did argue with some of the blind fan boys on the site...look at my join date for here.

[jpc_theoneandonly]

Wow. You know, I already have the deluxe edition or whatever reserved. I don't know why really, maybe it was the nifty gym bag. Anyways, that is about $90 that I can either move over to something else or split and place on 2 other games. I am just hoping that other games such as ME don't end up getting pushed back again. ME was already pushed back from Sept. to Nov. I was kind of happy because I will get it as soon as I get home. I just really don't want to deal with any more delays. I'm the guy that preorders everything. I want my games the first day they are available. Hell, I preordered H3 Nov. of 2006. It sucks when I wait a while for a game then all of the sudden it gets pushed back. But oh well, that just gives me more time to play BioShock and ME and all of the other games I own that I haven't been able to play.

[Mr.Green]

This thread turned into a fanboy pissing contest rather quickly, but don't they all?

Anyway, I'm disappointed as this was #1 on my list, but having all the god damn platforms known to man it's not like I'm gonna run out of great games to play any time soon.

[bean19]

This works for me. More than enough stuff to play this Fall. A game to play next summer sounds great! :)

[TrackZero]

Well, this is probably the least painful holiday for it to be delayed; saves me a little bit of money, and a lot of time.

I wonder if some November releases will experience "unforseen progress" and get pushed forward into October?

Namco must be wetting themselves in relief for Ace Combat 6, slated to launch one week after Grand Theft Auto IV's previous October 16th release date.

Yeah, I feel better that I hadn't pre-ordered it now. Gives some breathing room for this gaming season.

[LongStepMantis]

I know it might upset some, but MORE time on a game of this caliber just means it gets more Q&A and polish, hopefully. I can wait, there's already plenty of rushed titles out there.

[Citizen Erased]

While the news initially disappointed me, I'm now in the position most of you are in - relieved that there's one less must-have game vying for my money and time come Christmas.

What I find interesting is that the game was delayed for 2 quarters (and StGeorge's assertion of October 2008 holds some merit too) and not just 1. To me, that could be because either rockstar/take-two decided it's not worth releasing a AAA title in Q1, or it could be because the game is a fair way from being finished. If the 2 quarter delay is because of the latter, it begs the question as to why have they been holding on to the solid October 2007 release date for so long. Surely if the game was half a year behind schedule they would have known before now.

[Crenor]

dam, kick in the nutz for Take Two.
So were talking SUMMER of next year or later... dam.

Lets just blame the PS3, no good PS3 game is coming out until 2008

[Wolfgang]

Due to GTA getting delayed I will probably be getting Mass Effect now. It was GTA or ME for me. Way to many 360 games to buy this year :) I am glad Splinter Cell and this title got delayed -- but I doubt MS is glad.

[Disgustipated]

Wow. This fucking sucks. Oh well, that'll save me $60 this fall. Too many good games coming out.

[NeoSuplex]

There are a lot of people being idiots in this thread. Both systems have one less game this holiday season and both systems are going to suffer in sales for it at the end of the day.

DINGDINGDING!! What do we have for him, Johny?

This leaves Halo 3 as the only proven system seller for the holidays. Say what you will about Heavenly Sword, Mass Effect ect... until they come out and start getting some word of mouth/display case traction, they mean nothing to the less than Hardcore. To the gamers living in that ghostly realm existing somewhere between the potential EvAv poster and the Wii Sports initiate, Halo and GTA were the only non-license games coming out this year. The Wii is probably going to wipe the floor with the real consoles even harder now.
On the bright side, that shit's gonna be spotless

[FreezaSama]

I'm actually kinda of happy about the delay. There are enough games I want coming out this fall. $60 less I have to spend is all for the better.

[Shodan2020]

heh, well with all the games I currently have coming at me this fall/winter I wouldn't have anytime to play GTA IV anyway. :)

[JimmyDanger]

I was so waiting to get my pre-ordered collectors edition and have it sit on the shelf while I finished the other quality games I was buying around the same period..And I picked up SaintsRow for classic pricepoint the other day, so I can always boot that up.

Hopefully this'll show up during a dry spell mid next year.

[epyon]

Well it sucks, but then there are plenty of other games I plan to get this year anyway. I think this might hurt ps3 but they have more than 1 title up there sleeve unlike what some might like to believe.

[Micasa]

dam, kick in the nutz for Take Two.
So were talking SUMMER of next year or later... dam.

Lets just blame the PS3, no good PS3 game is coming out until 2008

Well it's a six-month delay, which is pretty well what we've gotten used to seeing for any of the more advanced multi-platform games finally appearing on the PS3.

Who knows, maybe the 360 version actually is on track and Rockstar would put out that 360 build if Microsoft paid them another $50 million or so. ;)

[Jack B]

Hard to believe this will be the 3rd holiday season in a row the 36O outsells the PS3. Time flies... I wonder if they can make it 4 in a row...

[Rune_74]

Hard to believe this will be the 2rd holiday season in a row the 36 outsells the PS3. Time flies... I wonder if they can make it 4 in a row...

Shhh you will piss people off;)

[fps fanatic]

Thank fuck, this combined with the UT3 delay means I can afford what I want this winter.

As for the 360 big sellers issue, are you really trying to say the PS3 can compete? There's already a proven MASSIVE attach rate for games per 360, so things like Mass Effect will sell fantastically. As for multiplatform titles, they're bound to do far better. For people buying a new console the 360 is going to be far cheaper, and there's already people who own 360s out there.
Woah, woah, woah, woah...... UT3 has been delayed? Since when?

[UnderHero5]

Wow, I come home from work with some good news!
One less game I have to spend $60 on fall.

How did this thread turn into a PS3 vs 360 thread?
Who thew the first stone? Because I think they should be kicked in the balls.

[Durka-Dan]

Off-topic: For anyone wasting valuable posts on Rune_74, I think maybe....just MAYBE....it has something to do with the fact that he came from ps3forums.com (http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=54553).

I may be wrong here, but having noticed the stupidity of his posts, I think that he's better dealt with by being ignored in my opinion.


hmm... so from what I can tell he obviously dislikes the PS3 yet signs up on a PS3 board. His intentions? Well whatever they were (flaming, trolling, etc.) they obviously got him banned. So can we just skip the next few weeks of his posting and just ban him ourselves?! PLEASE?!?!!

[kid cabelgo]

You know there are way too many AAA titles coming out this season when my first reaction is relief.

[Gorvi]

Hard to believe this will be the 3rd holiday season in a row the 36O outsells the PS3. Time flies... I wonder if they can make it 4 in a row...
So you're counting the holiday season that the PS3 didn't exist too? :p

[Rune_74]

hmm... so from what I can tell he obviously dislikes the PS3 yet signs up on a PS3 board. His intentions? Well whatever they were (flaming, trolling, etc.) they obviously got him banned. So can we just skip the next few weeks of his posting and just ban him ourselves?! PLEASE?!?!!


Ok I was just gonna let this go but since you are fixated on it I will explain...they have a decent 360 section over there which I liked to post on...I posted a link to a story that involved mgs4 comming to the 360 in that section and it got me banned:) So, if thats trolling, spamming or whatever, I would assume that is to that board....if you notice I have been a member here since 2005...so I must not be doing all t hat bad, not too mention I have not insulted anyone in this thread, I gave an opinion which messsage boards are all about, you do not have to agree with my opinion and I'm fine with it if you don't.

[Jack B]

So you're counting the holiday season that the PS3 didn't exist too? :p

I know what you're saying. Sure it's a bit dirty pool to include the 360's launch season, but it will still be 3 in a row. Back at E3 in 2005 if you had tried to tell the average industry expert or fan, that the 360 would beat the PS3 for holiday season's 2 and 3, most would have laughed at you. The GTA IV delay should clinch it one more time unless a Halo 3 delay happens, which doesn't seem likely.

Most expected the PS3 to win the 2nd season last year. Even 6 months ago, losing year 3 seemed highly unlikely, but it looks like it will happen again. I bet most still believe the PS3 will win year 4 in 2008, but who knows. I can't say for sure. The PS3 still has a loyal base. Blu-Ray is doing better than HD-DVD and the Red Rings of Death have caused the Microsoft to lose massive potential profits on the 360.

The amount of patience the hardcore PS3 fan has exhibited is impressive. It's been a long long time waiting for the PS3 to get going. It's been years of "wait 'til next year" comments since E3 2005.

PS3 fans are the new Cub fans. Imagine how many times they've had to say, "yeah, but just wait 'til next year" month after month. The waiting has got to be tough. I know you know what I'm talking about. You keep expecting a turn around, but it seems to be always about futures.

[Rune_74]

Jack that was basically what I was trying to say...Sony really needed tp have GTA this year and they did not get it.

[RorschachCCCLX]

This hurts sony the most, as their line up was the one lacking the most. Without it, I don't seem them with a real mega-seller this holiday.

[Hemalin]

...if you had tried to tell the average industry expert or fan, that the 360 would beat the 360 for holiday season's 2 and 3, most would have laughed at you.
I'd laugh at you too.

[Rune_74]

Heh that was pretty funny...your biggest enemy is yourself.

[Jack B]

I'd laugh at you to.

You got me. Fixed it. :D

[Johan]

I read this entire thread?

I've lost a little bit of my cognitive ability as a result...

[UnderHero5]

Jack B, my only problem with what you're saying is that this is the... third season the 360 has beaten the PS3?
I don't care how you look at it... if the PS3 wasn't OUT during the 360's first season, it didn't compete against it.
This is the SECOND season that the 360 and PS3 have competed.

You can't say Madden 08 is kicking NFL 09 in sales, if one is out, and one isn't
(I have no idea if there is a game called NFL 09, it's just an example).

[Rune_74]

Well wouldn't you won by default if another team didn't show up though?

[kid cabelgo]

I read this entire thread?

I've lost a little bit of my cognitive ability as a result...

I know exactly how you feel :(

[Deadend]

I now have $60 more in my wallet.

[Gorvi]

Well, if you really want to be technical, the 360 hasn't "won" a holiday yet. The PS2 and DS still outsold it last year. ;)

[Rune_74]

Gorvi is definately my favorite sony fan, and he is actually right....:)

Now if you said current gen systems jack then....youw ould have been right.

[johnymitsu]

I'm glad they delayed it, not only will it free up some space in my wallet this year with the already huge amount of great games coming out but they game will be much better because of it, good thing rockstar chose to finish the game rather than give people a buggy piece of shit.

[UnderHero5]

Well wouldn't you won by default if another team didn't show up though?
If it were a sports game, with rules, yes.
We're talking which sold more, aren't we?
How can you compare which sold more if one of them isn't out? It's just stupid.
Okay, PS2 kicked 360's ass with sales, 4 years ago!!

See? Does that make sense?

[Rune_74]

Your right, except for if you were tracking only current gen, which you would take every year a system is out regardless if the competition is out...in all it really doesn't matter in the grande scheme of things, installed base is what matters, I was just following along wi th what was written, but in order to "catch up" you need to sell more then the competition so that has to change.

[Pluvious]

The amount of patience the hardcore PS3 fan has exhibited is impressive. It's been a long long time waiting for the PS3 to get going. It's been years of "wait 'til next year" comments since E3 2005.

PS3 fans are the new Cub fans. Imagine how many times they've had to say, "yeah, but just wait 'til next year" month after month. The waiting has got to be tough. I know you know what I'm talking about. You keep expecting a turn around, but it seems to be always about futures.

Reminds me of the day when I owned a 3DO system. Same problem.

[Rune_74]

Man I wanted a 3DO so bad when it was out, could not afford it at the time due to being too young, thank god for that I guess.

[Pluvious]

I used to work for Trip. :-) Worked on the M2 project as well. :(

Road Rash, Crash n Burn, and The Horde where great.

[Johan]

Man I wanted a 3DO so bad when it was out, could not afford it at the time due to being too young, thank god for that I guess.

You could satisfy that itch, a bit late, with an emulator.

As long as you own the carts!!! ;)

[Rune_74]

heheh t rue...or you could just play the pc versions since most of the games were out for the pc as well which was kind of its downfall.

[Jack B]

Well, if you really want to be technical, the 360 hasn't "won" a holiday yet. The PS2 and DS still outsold it last year. ;)

I raced with 100,000 other people in the Bay to Breakers race in San Francisco. It took me almost 20 minutes just to get to the starting line after the starting gun sounded, because there were so many people lined up at the starting line... I was about 6 blocks away from the startng line in about position 93,000 or there abouts... I beat my buddy. I don't give a damn, that the guys from Kenya kicked my ass almost before I made it to the start line. Or that probably 50,000 people beat me. I beat my buddy. I know I didn't beat the other guys and I didn't say the 360 did either. The 360 beat the PS3.

The 360 sold more units than the PS3 the last 2 holiday seasons and will do so again. I never said it beat PC's, other consoles, handhelds, casual gamer consoles, or ipods. It sold more than the PS3. Simple enough statement.

[Jack B]

Gorvi is definately my favorite sony fan, and he is actually right....:)

Now if you said current gen systems jack then....youw ould have been right.

He's mine too, but Gorvi is wrong. Here is my original quote...

Hard to believe this will be the 3rd holiday season in a row the 36O outsells the PS3. Time flies... I wonder if they can make it 4 in a row...

It outsold the PS3. I didn't say it outsold the Wii, PS2, Gamecube, DS etc... Just the PS3.

[Jack B]

If it were a sports game, with rules, yes.
We're talking which sold more, aren't we?
How can you compare which sold more if one of them isn't out? It's just stupid.
Okay, PS2 kicked 360's ass with sales, 4 years ago!!

See? Does that make sense?

Technically, the 360 still hasn't outsold the PS3, because the Next Gen doesn't start until Sony say's it does. I can't wait, soon we'll be playing games in 1080p (or 720p on the PS3 while we wait for true HD and the start of the next gen...)! It's so confusing. Does the Next Gen start when Sony ships all their games at true HD 1080p or just most of them?

At this rate the PS3 may need to last 10 years, so it can "start the next gen" and win a holiday season before the Xbox 720 comes out.

[Shodan2020]

Yeah, I feel better that I hadn't pre-ordered it now. Gives some breathing room for this gaming season.

Even if GTA IV hadn't been delayed... I still would have pre-ordered Ace Combat 6 over it. I don't know why, and it's just me but I never really worry about being the first to play any of the GTA games. I love them and they are superb games, I just never feel the impetus to go out and get them right away, I always wait a year or so. I don't know why that is either.

[Shodan2020]

This thread turned into a fanboy pissing contest rather quickly, but don't they all?


Yeah, that sucks. I am so over that shit, it's soooooo old. People will play on whatever system they think is the best (or all 3, whatever). There's pretty much no chance of changing anyone's mind on the matter either, unless someone's on the fence or is asking for advice on which to buy.

[Shodan2020]

I used to work for Trip. :-) Worked on the M2 project as well. :(

Road Rash, Crash n Burn, and The Horde where great.

Twisted was pretty fun too if you had a friend or two. My friend's rich brother owned a 3D0 back in the day. I played Out of This World, Road Rash (the PC port version, I was already a huge fan of the Road Rash games on the Genesis), and Dragon's Lair for the first time on that system. Good memories, even if it wasn't that great of a system.

[Shodan2020]

Man I wanted a 3DO so bad when it was out, could not afford it at the time due to being too young, thank god for that I guess.

Heh, I wanted a Neo-Geo (still do at times) back then when I was a wee shaver. I'm so glad emulation is around. My PC is a NeoGeo vault. :)

[vivafletcher]

In a related story that nobody cares about, vivafletcher delays his entry into next gen console goodness until summer of 2008 (or until a more significant price cut arrives).

[SorcererXIII]

I think it is better for the game that they delayed it. I started to get suspicious when they released the first trailer and it showed hardly any gameplay, and then later the limited playtime they were giving to the press (actually did they even play it or just watch the devs play it?).

Still I wish devs didn't have to split their time between so many consoles. It's a real interesting time in the game industry, that's for sure.

[Skyelan]

Jack, I get what you're trying to say, but come on man, that's just such a stretch that I'm amazed the concept hasn't snapped in two yet.

The Dreamcast also outsold the PS2 until the PS2 released, does that mean ANYTHING for the DCs success?

Hey, the N-Gage outsold the 360 up until when it launched, and the PS3 is currently outselling the Xbox 720!

I once sold a glass of lemonade, clearly my lemonade is outselling the Nintendo Three Screen.

[RorschachCCCLX]

The way I read the annoucnement, it sounds like the PS3 version required a delay, but since they have a simultanious agreement, it ment both versions were delayed.. this hurts sony and take-2 more than anyone.



and just for the record, the next xbox won't be called the 720, it will be the 420 to attract the stoners.

[UnderHero5]

Heh, I wanted a Neo-Geo (still do at times) back then when I was a wee shaver.

That's a profession??

Man, that must have sucked. You poor thing!

[UnderHero5]

The way I read the annoucnement, it sounds like the PS3 version required a delay, but since they have a simultanious agreement, it ment both versions were delayed.. this hurts sony and take-2 more than anyone.

What makes you think it was the PS3 version that is delaying it?
It doesn't sound that way to me. Just sounds like the game isn't done.

[Micasa]

What makes you think it was the PS3 version that is delaying it?
It doesn't sound that way to me. Just sounds like the game isn't done.

Have they showed it running on the PS3 yet? Whenever they've done a demo of the game, it's been on the 360.

That, put together with the fairly common thread of PS3 development lagging behind 360 development on multiplatform games leads to a fairly obvious conclusion.

Sure, it might not be accurate, but surely you can see why someone would assume that.

[92miata]

yeah i ripped dvlpr in another thread about the "new 360's". now after reading this thread, and him/her asking if my miata is turbo or supercharged, i want to buy him/her a case of beer. maybe i should let it slip to him/her that i work at costco and i get some inside stuff also.....:) don't ask, i won't tell, just little things....:) integrated hddvd, whoops, erase.....:)

welcome to the community dvlpr!!!!!

[UnderHero5]

Have they showed it running on the PS3 yet? Whenever they've done a demo of the game, it's been on the 360.

That, put together with the fairly common thread of PS3 development lagging behind 360 development on multiplatform games leads to a fairly obvious conclusion.

Sure, it might not be accurate, but surely you can see why someone would assume that.

Well, thanks for answering for him, but if it's all the same, he said "the way I read the announcement", as if the announcement alluded to PS3 development problems... which it did not.

And since when does a game only being demoed on one system mean they are having dev problems with another? It's a common occurance to demo on certain hardware, even if a title is multiplatform. That happens all the time.

[Micasa]

Have they shown it running on the PS3 at all or not?

You can cast doubt on his reading of the announcement and deride me for answering your question - but at least have the decency to answer the question put forth, not just try to muddy the waters.

"Certain elements of development proved to be more time-intensive than expected, especially given the commitment for a simultaneous release on two very different platforms."

Like was said - they've committed to a simultaneous release. They've shown it running, multiple times, on the 360. Never, to my knowledge, on the PS3.

If you can't, or perhaps more accurately won't, admit that it's reasonable for someone to think that PS3 development was slowing things down, especially given the history I mentioned, then is there a point replying to you again?

[92miata]

hey rune i remember RENTING a 3do. VERY GOOD TIMES. could not afford to buy it but i rented it for like a week with 5 games for 100 bucks or so. awesome. don't think i even left the house. lots of weed. oh how times have changed, getting older and all.

back on topic. THIS IS AWESOME NEWS EVERYONE. or i guess just me. because now i will go purchase saints row cheap, since i have never played it, since i wait for games to become cheap, since i don't buy 60 dollar games, not even halo 3.....:)

this is fun!

[menage]

Yippie! More money for other shit.

[JimmyDanger]

After reading a little further down the link in the OP - I just realised a few things...

i)Oblivion - Game Of The Year Edition is out in 4th quarter 06. Since I held off on this one - there's 70 hours or more of my life taken up.

ii) There's a console version of Civilisation in the works for 08. Woopity.

Anyway - did anyone listen to the Listen only webcast version of the shareholder conference call?http://ir.take2games.com/ (Listen only webcast version of the shareholder conference call?)

[lost]

Good and bad.

Good - Frees up some time for other Q3-Q4 titles.

Bad - I want my fucking GTA.

It did seem like it was all going rather well for one of the more ambitious titles of the year. Q2 of 2008 is still a blow.

[Samstag]

Where did "summer" come from? All I'm seeing in the article is fiscal year 2008.

Sure, it get's pretty hot in April here in Texas, but for a lot of you that's Spring.

[grognard66]

Take 2 said that GTA would come out in it's second fiscal quarter which starts 2/1/2008, so it'll be out sometime between Feb.-Apr. The last few years have seen a surprising number of quality games released in March (end of Q1 for most companies not called Take 2), so my money's on a March release.
While this may slow the adoption rate of 360/PS3 slightly, I don't think it's really a big deal in the long-run. GTA fans already know it's going to release on the same date for both systems with exclusive DLC on 360 and will have made the decision on which (or both) consoles to adopt based on that information.
It probably hurts PS3 a bit more just because the existing library is so weak, to date, and it would have helped to have another AAA title in their lineup this Holiday. MS can't tout their "perfect storm" line anymore, but really don't need to as Halo 3 is their system seller.

[Rylos]

The last few years have seen a surprising number of quality games released in March (end of Q1 for most companies not called Take 2), so my money's on a March release.

For what it's worth (which is probably very little), some of the local online retailers here have changed their listings to the 15th of March for both sytems. Example 1. (http://www.dvdcrave.com.au/products/product.jsp?pid=27944) Example 2. (http://topshop.com.au/?action=view&id=968168)

[johnymitsu]

Have they shown it running on the PS3 at all or not?

You can cast doubt on his reading of the announcement and deride me for answering your question - but at least have the decency to answer the question put forth, not just try to muddy the waters.

"Certain elements of development proved to be more time-intensive than expected, especially given the commitment for a simultaneous release on two very different platforms."

Like was said - they've committed to a simultaneous release. They've shown it running, multiple times, on the 360. Never, to my knowledge, on the PS3.

If you can't, or perhaps more accurately won't, admit that it's reasonable for someone to think that PS3 development was slowing things down, especially given the history I mentioned, then is there a point replying to you again?

So?It's not because of the ps3 alone, like they said especially given the commitment for a simultaneous release on two very different platforms you could just as easily say "its delayed because they decided to bring it to 360, its the 360's fault!" i love my 360 just as much as most and i DONT own a ps3 but seriously get that fanboy stick out of your ass.

[RorschachCCCLX]

Well, thanks for answering for him, but if it's all the same, he said "the way I read the announcement", as if the announcement alluded to PS3 development problems... which it did not.

And since when does a game only being demoed on one system mean they are having dev problems with another? It's a common occurance to demo on certain hardware, even if a title is multiplatform. That happens all the time.

I assumed thusly because the PS3 has seen far more delays due to the extreamly complicated nature of the PS3 development. John Carmack, one of the most noted game programers of the last 20 years said "programing for the PS3 makes you sweat blood." others have voiced simular complaints. I'm not saying this to knock sony or anything, I'm just saying it as a resonable conclusion based on past delays.

[SorcererXIII]

So?It's not because of the ps3 alone, like they said especially given the commitment for a simultaneous release on two very different platforms you could just as easily say "its delayed because they decided to bring it to 360, its the 360's fault!" i love my 360 just as much as most and i DONT own a ps3 but seriously get that fanboy stick out of your ass.

As a developer who makes cross platform games for another company, I can agree that there will always be this problem as long as the install base for 360 and PS3 make it worth it to make games for them simultaneously. It doesn't matter which two consoles you pick, the game always suffers in some way.

[atariv8]

When's Saints Row 2 coming out?

I actually don't mind when a ton of games come out at the same time. By the time I'm done playing the games I could afford, the others are waiting on the used shelf for me. Of course it really sucks for the developer...

[Mortis]

Summer of 08? What the FUCK. :mad: Hopefully they can get it sorted out and released in Q1 instead.

[torrefaction]

I wonder if Saints Row actually has a chance of really competing with GTA IV due to this.

[Jack B]

Jack, I get what you're trying to say, but come on man, that's just such a stretch that I'm amazed the concept hasn't snapped in two yet.

The Dreamcast also outsold the PS2 until the PS2 released, does that mean ANYTHING for the DCs success?

Hey, the N-Gage outsold the 360 up until when it launched, and the PS3 is currently outselling the Xbox 720!

I once sold a glass of lemonade, clearly my lemonade is outselling the Nintendo Three Screen.

Skyelan, you seem to getting picky, but I understand. The statement was skirting the edge and Sony fans would look for flaws. I've done the same thing at times. This might help. I'll adjust this statement to ease the controversy. :)

Here is my original post.

Originally Posted by Jack B
Hard to believe this will be the 3rd holiday season in a row the 36O outsells the PS3. Time flies... I wonder if they can make it 4 in a row...

Here is the new and improved quote with definitions and disclaimers.

"The Xbox 360 will have sold more HD Consoles for the 3rd consecutive holiday season. Two of those 3 seasons will be competing with the PS3" Time flies... I wonder if they can make it 4 in a row...

Disclaimers and definitions:

* "Geography" is planet Earth in the solar system known as the one we orbit around our sun called the Sun.".

** "Holiday season" is meant to be the one most Western countries recognize as The Holiday Season". Not to be confused with some holdiay seasons recognized by very small countries or even tribes in far off places.

*** "Western countries" do not include Japan and Korea in their definition of Holiday season, but see * above as they do count in the geography, because of the whole planet Earth thing.

**** "Sold" is meant to be unit sales as the measure used.

***** "Sold More". See **** above for definition of sold. More is meant to be a higher number of units sold.

****** "Xbox 360". Gaming console made by Microsoft, that has the largest library of HD console games a 3 year warranty and 3 Rings of Death more often than it should.

******* "HD Consoles". This is referring to supporting games at 720p resolution or higher. Not to be confused with TRUE HD, which Sony said only the PS3 would do (360 does now too) and no games 720p should be considered HD. I believe defintion might have been amended by Sony, because the majority of their games on the PS3 are 720p.

******** "competing". This is where both Sony and Microsoft were trying to sell 360's and PS3's. It's somewhat debatable, because Sony claims the Next Gen doesn't start 'til they say it does and they also claim to be winning. See ***** for the "sold more" definition.

********* "consecutive". As in in a row. Or one, then another, then another after that.... That would be 3 in a row.

********** "time flies". It's doesn't seem like it will be the 3rd holiday season already for the 360 without the PS3 coming to claim it's former crown.

*********** "wonder". As is to speculate. As in "I'm not sure if Microsoft can make it 4 in a row, but I wonder".

Hopefully, I've cleared up all the confusion around my initial statement above and added some meaning. I don't think it was that confusing to start with, but it did rub some people the wrong way and they wanted to challenge the statement. Hopefully, no one is confused over what it means in the January sales meetings for the PS3 and 360 sales camps. :D

[Gorvi]

I'm confused by the word "camps". Could you clarify? Will there be archery and canoeing? :p

[Jack B]

I'm confused by the word "camps". Could you clarify? Will there be archery and canoeing? :p

Hmmm, maybe, but it depends on your particular camp's results... I've been to some Sales quartely or yearly Operations Reviews after a good results, that felt like a fun camp with archery and canoeing. Kind of like Camp Winnetonka. :) After a bad quarter or year it felt a Death Camp like Auschwitz. :eek:

A co-worker once told me, "Operations reviews are like plane crashes. Anyone you walk away from is a good one!". :D

[Micasa]

So?It's not because of the ps3 alone, like they said especially given the commitment for a simultaneous release on two very different platforms you could just as easily say "its delayed because they decided to bring it to 360, its the 360's fault!" i love my 360 just as much as most and i DONT own a ps3 but seriously get that fanboy stick out of your ass.

Multiple games haven't been delayed for the 360 after already appearing on the PS3 though, so that logic doesnt work.

[92miata]

so should i sell my sony stock, keep nintendo, and buy more microsoft?????

:)