No AGP GeForce 7800 Cards

[Evil Avatar]

The Inquirer is reporting (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24391) that NVIDIA is not planning on releasing an AGP version of their new GeForce 7800 GTX line of video cards. Playing "Get Smart", ATI is still planning an AGP version of their new R520 cards.

Seems like a bad decision. I just turned down a GeForce 7800 card because I don't own a PCIe motherboard and I have NO intention of upgrading the same year as the Xbox 360 is getting released.

Thanks, Shacknews (http://shacknews.com/)

[Varsity]

I pity the 'foo...;)

[goc_sin]

Looks like it's time for this years upgrade.. PCIe motherboard here I come... and throw in a shinny new 7800 GTX.

[DigitalFirefly]

I'm glad I buy ATI cards.

[Cupelix]

Yeah, to hell with that. I have a Shuttle case that I love and is less than a year old, but it doesn't have an PCIe slot. Dropping support for AGP when its likely that a huge portion of your install base doesn't have PCIe yet is a bad move.

[Heretic Machine]

Oh well, guess ATI gets my continued support.

Like I'd ever buy a nVidia card anyhow! :p w00t.

[The Continental]

I bought my first ATI card once they started trouncing Nvidia with the 9800 generation and I have no intention of going back anytime soon. This is more than likely going to prove to be a big mistake on behalf of Nvidia, who are looking more and more likely to be taking a page from the 3DFX book in the near future.

[bumgut]

I dont know specifically, but wouldn't an AGP slot not have enough bandwith for a card that speed?

I doubt nvidia is doing it just to spite AGP users.
So there must be another reason.

[crashedout]

If they can slap a bridge on the 6800 series, then they can bridge this too. If it is profitable for them to do it they will.

[Triprotic]

it seems a logical step imo.... you'd only really buy a card that's that kind of spec if you've got a PCI express board anyway... who the hell wouldn't?

or am I being dumb, is there a big draw back with switching to PCI express?

[fitbabits]

Could nVidia be the Nintendo of the videocard market? One bad decision after another…

[Intruder]

IT just makes sense with the progression of cards that old and obsolete formats be done away with. AGP just doesn't have the pipe that the PCI-E does. A card of this power apparently needs the bandwidth that only the PCI-E has. That being said my PCI-E 6800GT is doing just great and I have no intention of laying down 600+ buck for a freaking video card. LOL I guess some people will buy anything.

[solinari6]

That really sucks for those of us with AMD SocketA chips. As far as I know, there are no socketA motherboards with PCI-E. So I'd need to buy a new mb, a AMD64 chip, just so I could spend another $600 on a nvidia card?

[Reanimated]

I don't upgrade motherboards until I'm ready to do a total system upgrade and right now I'm FAR from that.

Meh, my 6800 Ultra will last me a good long while anyway, but if I DO get persuaded to upgrade video cards within the next 12 months, I guess it's going to have to be to an ATI card.

[Varsity]

I dont know specifically, but wouldn't an AGP slot not have enough bandwith for a card that speed?
I really doubt it. Last time I heard the figures, we were nowhere near saturating AGP.

[zipR]

Can't PCI-EXSOIURWOIR or whatever they're called slots provide more power to the card than AGP?

[BigJonno]

it seems a logical step imo.... you'd only really buy a card that's that kind of spec if you've got a PCI express board anyway... who the hell wouldn't?

or am I being dumb, is there a big draw back with switching to PCI express?

I'm with you on this one. A quick trip to ebuyer has the cheapest 7800 at £370 and the most expensive motherboard that can take it (that doesn't have built-in graphics, natch) is £135. As much as I hate having to upgrade multiple components at once, I think it's pretty safe to assume that if you can afford to pay £370-420 for a graphics card, you can afford £50-135 for a motherboard.

[Borys]

Seems like a bad decision. I just turned down a GeForce 7800 card because I don't own a PCIe motherboard and I have NO intention of upgrading the same year as the Xbox 360 is getting released.

Thanks, Shacknews (http://shacknews.com/)

Seems like you made the right decision, Evil. No point in upgrading till UT2K7 comes out (or some GFX-heavy 360 ports, 2nd generation titles at least).

6800 will play Q4, CoD2 etc. just fine. Be sure to have at least 1 GB of RAM though.

[kathode]

Gonna have to happen sometime, might as well be now.

[camberiu]

I dont know specifically, but wouldn't an AGP slot not have enough bandwith for a card that speed?

I doubt nvidia is doing it just to spite AGP users.
So there must be another reason.


We are NOWHERE near the limit of the 8X AGP bus. THis decision was either done due to poor marketing judgemnt or to cut on the development cost. It could also be an efford to FORCE people who are currently using Nforce2 or Nforce3 Mobos to upgrade to Nforce4 so that Nvidia can cash in both ways.

[Com_Gaunt]

We are NOWHERE near the limit of the 8X AGP bus. THis decision was either done due to poor marketing judgemnt or to cut on the development cost. It could also be an efford to FORCE people who are currently using Nforce2 or Nforce3 Mobos to upgrade to Nforce4 so that Nvidia can cash in both ways

If that is the case, why are PCIE versions of Graphics cards so much faster than their AGP counterparts?

[netcraazzy]

This is honestly just the progressing of PC hardware folks. Just because NVIDIA is not supporting PCI-E on their super high-end $600 card does not mean they are dropping AGP support for all cards. How many of you people who are crying foul were actually going to drop $600 for one of these? And to anybody who says they were, how is it that you are not willing to upgrade your motherboard yet you can justify blowing that kind of cash on a video card? By the time the 7800 and similar cards are within an affordable price range your AGP motherboards and your processors will be quite outdated anyway. If you have AGP and are looking for an upgrade that makes sense get yourself one of the 6800 line of cards and STFU already.

[noxa]

For those who know what the differences between PCI-E and AGP are, this news isn't bad. AGP's problem is not theoretical bandwidth, but something more architectural. Keep in mind that PCI-E is not just for video cards, either; there are a wide variety of cards available (tv tuners, raid controllers, network cards, etc) that can get major speed improvements from PCI-E over standard PCI/33 (and the hack that is PCI-X). Hell, SLI boards are great just because you get (depending on the configuration options the manufacturer puts in the BIOS) two PCI-E 8x slots.

I recommend googling around and reading some of the whitepapers (and the fantastic Anandtech article) before bashing on an excellent standard that truly replaces the aging PCI spec and is useful for more than just fancy video cards.

[51|RandoM]

Good. Death to the luddites.

[camberiu]

If that is the case, why are PCIE versions of Graphics cards so much faster than their AGP counterparts?


Can you post a test or an article where the difference in performance is evident? Everything I read so far points otherwise (http://www.tcmagazine.info/articles.php?action=show&id=127&perpage=1&pagenum=1)

[Ernst_Jager]

Looks like in about 12-18 months when I might actually consider buying this card I probably won't. Unless for some reason my AMD 64 3400 and it's AGP just don't cut it anymore. Hard to say it is it a bad move or not. Will definitely cut into profits I would think though. Would be curious how many people that read Evilavatar.com are using AGP with decent cpu/mainboards.

[StoneGut]

My Delima (in Canadian Funds):

Computer Upgrade
- $175 Motherboard
- $500 Video Card

or

XBox 360
- $400 (ish)

So do the math. Knowing me though I'll end up getting both and have my Fiance PISSED for a day or so. Well worth it!

[Nameback]

I belive I understand Nvidia's decision here, I don't agree with it but I understand it. When was the last time any of you went to Best Buy or Circuit City? PC manufactures have hopped on the PCIe bandwagon faster then anything, and motherboard support for AGP in general is dieing. If you but anything other then a low end machine, it will have PCIe in it. I was just at Best Buy the other day even the Emachine's computers have PCIe.

It isnt the fact that one is faster then the other(even though there are some archtectual diffrences) its just that the majority of PC's built TODAY have PCIe.

/slightly off-topic
Also I think alot of you forget that PCIe is more then just that big 16x slot,there are 1x's too that arnt video slots. Which is why PC manufactures have made the transition so much faster, because PCIe can be used for things OTHER then video.

[Mrbunchypants]

As it stand right now. AGP and PCI-E are the same.
By the time those cards hit the shelves is mass amounts AGP will be on it's way out.

I think it's a cost saveings thing for them. AGP might cost the same right now. but down the road have one card with different bus types might hurt there cost.

I'm not sure is there a different cost in makeing AGP or PCI-E cards?

[gojira]

My rig is basically obsolete now, but I'm waiting for AMD motherboards to support PCI-E. It's starting to look like AMD mb makers aren't interested in PCI-E support and I'm going to have to upgrade before then anyway. It's not like I'd EVER pay $600 for a video card though, so I don't think NVIDIA is losing any business from me.

[Nerv]

What do you mean by that? I'm running an AMD 3200 (socket 939) on a PCI-E board...

[Nameback]

My rig is basically obsolete now, but I'm waiting for AMD motherboards to support PCI-E. It's starting to look like AMD mb makers aren't interested in PCI-E support and I'm going to have to upgrade before then anyway. It's not like I'd EVER pay $600 for a video card though, so I don't think NVIDIA is losing any business from me.

AMD motherbaords supporting PCIe? Thats been around for a while now, a quick scearch at Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Manufactory=&PropertyCodeValue=709%3A7495&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=736%3A7587&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&description=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&SubCategory=22&Submit=Property) shows about 30 Motherbaords with 1 PCIe slot.

[Pumped'Up]

I also have AGP mobo, and have no intentions of upgrading to PCIE because my system still rocks (AMD 64 3200).

Too bad for nVidia, I'm looking to upgrade video from my old 9800Pro - guess there are no other alternatives now. ATI will yet again get my cash when I get an X850XT.

[FritzC]

Feh, big deal. If you're going to be buying a $600 or more vid card, shell out the bucks for a new mobo so you can use all the benefits of the "teh uber new card". The "well, in 12 months I'll be in the market for a new card and no agp means no sale.." is just dumb. Gee, I'm sure they'll be crushed. If you have a system thats less than 12 months old, with a decent vid card, in another 12-18 months you're hitting total system upgrade anyway if you want the fastest, greatest, etc. etc..

[bapenguin]

Not a big deal, they are only saying the top of the line cards aren't going AGP...which typically appeals to the enthusiest...which typically already has a PCI-E board.

[Draft]

Not a big deal, they are only saying the top of the line cards aren't going AGP...which typically appeals to the enthusiest...which typically already has a PCI-E board.Precisely. This is a non-story.

[crashedout]

AMD has had PCI-E motherboards for a while, they were first with SLI. If you wish to stick with AGP you can get some very good Nforce3 boards that support 939 and AGP. If you are in 754 land, there are rumors of a DFI with Nforce3 and PCI-E. If that pans out you have a simple upgrade path. I am sure there will be a 7600 or something that uses a bridge chip if it does not.

I have a kick-butt Socket-A platform so I upgraded it with a 6800 AGP a few months ago. This week I will go to a AGP 939 board with an A64. If there is a reason to upgrade to PCI-E in the next year I can get a Nforce4 board and the card and I am there. I don't really see the need, the new video cards have tons of memory that runs way faster than an bus could ever, part of the reason we have not reached the limit of AGP.

[bobbler]

The Inquirer is not exactly the best place to get real information from...

Nvidia has stated that they would only bring out an AGP version of the 7800 if there was demand for it (which will probably turn out to be the case, so we'll probably be seeing one in the coming months -- watch).

What is the big deal now?

[gojira]

AMD motherbaords supporting PCIe? Thats been around for a while now, a quick scearch at Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Manufactory=&PropertyCodeValue=709%3A7495&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=736%3A7587&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&PropertyCodeValue=0&description=&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=&SubCategory=22&Submit=Property) shows about 30 Motherbaords with 1 PCIe slot.
That was a great search page you posted. Normally, I'd say that PCI-E was still to expensive for me to really get excited about it. But there was a good looking Chaintech MB on that page with some really good reviews for only $79. It looks like I'm going to have to get serious about upgrading now. :) Fortunately I may have a little extra money comming in soon too! :D

[51|RandoM]

I've had amd and pci-e together since shuttle released the sn25p.

[megatron666]

The Inquirer is not exactly the best place to get real information from...

Nvidia has stated that they would only bring out an AGP version of the 7800 if there was demand for it (which will probably turn out to be the case, so we'll probably be seeing one in the coming months -- watch).

What is the big deal now?

Wow. Someone actually reading the story first and then commenting. I wonder what EA would be like if everyone did that.

[TrackZero]

I'm glad I buy ATI cards.

Heh, here here! That and I just got a new motherboard last year, I'm not about to get another one just for PCIe, I'm just not convinced of the cost benefits yet. Maybe next year.

[Adam Blue]

I purposely held off from buying a new motherboard last year to go with PCIe boards and the respective cards. I'm still holding off though. My PC is treating me good and I'm waiting for a good choice of 64bit pcie mobos.

[Redline]

Wow. Someone actually reading the story first and then commenting. I wonder what EA would be like if everyone did that.

The quality of the comments is on par with the reporting. What are you complaining about? ;)