Microsoft Address 360 Failure Rates. 3 Year Warranty Now in Effect.

[bapenguin]

I know people want specific numbers, but this is probably as close as they are going to get. Microsoft admits there is a problem. They admit it so much they have decided to give an unheard of 3 year warranty on all Xbox 360 consoles.Microsoft Corp. today announced that it will expand its global Xbox 360™ warranty coverage. Any Xbox 360 customer who experiences a general hardware failure indicated by three flashing red lights will now be covered by a three year warranty from date of purchase. All other existing Xbox 360 warranty policies remain in place.

As a result of what Microsoft views as an unacceptable number of repairs to Xbox 360 consoles, the company conducted extensive investigations into potential sources of general hardware failures. Having identified a number of factors which can cause general hardware failures indicated by three red flashing lights on the console, Microsoft has made improvements to the console and is enhancing its Xbox 360 warranty policy for existing and new customers.

Microsoft stands behind its products and is taking responsibility to repair or replace any Xbox 360 console that experiences the “three flashing red lights” error message within three years from time of purchase free of charge, including shipping costs. Microsoft will take a $1.05 billion to $1.15 billion pre-tax charge to earnings for the quarter ended June 30, 2007 for anticipated costs under its current and enhanced Xbox 360 policies.

“The majority of Xbox 360 owners are having a great experience with their console and have from day one. But, this problem has caused frustration for some of our customers and for that, we sincerely apologize,” said Robbie Bach, president of Microsoft’s Entertainment & Devices Division. “We value our community tremendously and look at this as an investment in our customer base. We look forward to great things to come.”

For any customer who has previously paid for repair expenses related to the three flashing lights error message on the Xbox 360 console, Microsoft will retroactively reimburse them.


It sucks people are having hardware failures, but Microsoft stepped up big time here.

[CaptStu]

Kudos to MS for sticking up for their product and their consumers.

[cp#]

Nice work Microsoft on the extended warranty. Now you just have to roll out a redesign to end these problems.

[karak]

Holy fucking shit. I can promise that 5 will be purchased tonight just by a couple of my pals who worried about this. That is an amazing warranty. I sure hope they fix whatever ails them though.

[Lutheran]

IDD , great move on microsofts part finally owning up to this. Its to bad they didn't do enough Q&A before they shipped the damn things so this would have never gotten so far out of hand. But I commend them on this move.

[karak]

Nice work Microsoft on the extended warranty. Now you just have to roll out a redesign to end these problems.
Smaller and with a flash drive in them:) Solid state all the way.

[jeffool]

Can we say "Thank you Kefkataran (and those that brought problems to light, despite those who shouted them down as 'no big deal'?" I knew you could. :D

[31 Flavas]

Wow... 3 year warranty. I'd agree that's about as close to an admission as you can get without actually admitting.

It's awful kind of Microsoft to extend the warranty to three years. But i'd still rather not have to worry about having system die on me and be without it until they repair it. Maybe they'll just cross ship you a new one?

[Torgo]

This is still a dance around the fact that they've known about this issue for a LONG time, and really haven't made the necessary changes to the manufacturing process to fix the actual issue. When you still see a high failure rate with the Elites, that shows a lack of effort in my mind. It's nice that they've extended the warranty, but I'd much rather have a console that's gonna last for years to come without having to ship it in once a year and be without it for 2 or more weeks during that time period.

[PsychoticVile]

This is nice but sucks that it doesn't cover the bad DVD drives and made hard drive cables that a lot of the units have also suffered from.

[H1PO]

Wow. Seriously WOW. I would go out and buy one right now if I had the money. but I spent a lot of money at an mc chris show the other night. prolly by august.

I was waiting for the new processors, but this makes want to not wait.

[Thrak]

My 360 is currently in its unmarked white box on its way to Texas for red ring of death repair. What's MS's stance on warranty after repair? Will I still have the rest of the 3 years from my purchase date in case it dies again?

[Lord Dongkey]

Now I'm annoyed I got the 3 year warranty from Sam's when I picked up my 360, but at least I can drop it off locally if it dies...

[greenapple]

I know people want specific numbers, but this is probably as close as they are going to get. Microsoft admits there is a problem. They admit it so much they have decided to give an unheard of 3 year warranty on all Xbox 360 consoles.

It sucks people are having hardware failures, but Microsoft stepped up big time here.

I've been holding off on a 360 purchase for this very reason. This will probably put me over the hump.

Anyone know if design fixes have already been implemented in new 360's? As great as a 3 year warranty is, I don't want to buy a unit that has to be sent back, or even worse, dies on the first day of year 4.

[Norse]

Open Letter From Peter Moore: (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/petermooreletter.htm)

To our Xbox Community:

You’ve spoken, and we’ve heard you. Good service and a good customer experience are areas of the business that we care deeply about. And frankly, we’ve not been doing a good enough job.

Some of you have expressed frustration with the customer experiences you have had with Xbox 360; frustration with having to return your console for service after receiving the general hardware error message on the console.

The majority of customers who own Xbox 360 consoles have had a terrific experience from their first day, and continue to, day in and day out. But when anyone questions the reliability of our product, or our commitment to our customers, it’s something I take very seriously.

We have been following this issue closely, and with on-going testing have identified several factors that can cause a general hardware failure indicated by three flashing red lights on the console. To address this issue, and as part of our ongoing work, we have already made certain improvements to the console.

We are also implementing some important policy changes intended to keep you in the game, worry-free.

As of today, all Xbox 360 consoles are covered by an enhanced warranty program to address specifically the general hardware failures indicated by the three flashing red lights on the console. This applies to new and previously-sold consoles. While we will still have a general one year console warranty (two years in some countries), we are announcing today a three-year warranty that covers any console that displays a three flashing red lights error message. If a customer has an issue indicated by the three flashing red lights, Microsoft will repair the console free of charge -- including shipping -- for three years from the console’s purchase date. We will also retroactively reimburse any of you who paid for repairs related to problems indicated by this error message in the past. In doing so, Microsoft stands behind its products and takes responsibility to ensure that every Xbox 360 console owner continues to have a fantastic gaming experience.

If we have let any of you down in the experience you have had with your Xbox 360, we sincerely apologize. We are taking responsibility and are making these changes to ensure that every Xbox 360 owner continues to have a great experience.

This will take a few days to roll out globally, and I appreciate your continued patience as we launch this program. I’ve posted an FAQ that should address some additional questions, and we’ll update it over the next few days.

I want to thank you, on behalf of all us at Microsoft, for your loyalty.

[menage]

A bit late, but nice nonetheless. No response on scratching I presume. But I think they will change their stance in this as well.

[Crenor]

wow and sweeeeeeetttt, I was just in the process of getting mine fixed :/
I see this as the smartest thing they could have done before the Halo3/holiday push.
I know personally know 3 people out of the 5 that have an Xbox360 that have had the 3 rings of death.

[Heretic Machine]

This is pretty good at this point, it means that any console bought from today and onward will likely be covered for the realistic lifetime I expect for the 360 (I think it will have a successor by the time they're not covered). Still kind of lacking in that those of us that got one at launch are going to be left out of coverage for about three years of what I expect it to take before Microsoft puts out another console, but it is pretty nice. Especially if they step up the repairs and find a way to really fix them, so that if one does break in that three year period, you'll get one back that should be fixed.

[jpublic]

Here's a point though - if MS is able to eat the cost of this, what's the real failure rate? How much *more* is it costing them?

[Corngood]

When mine died it would just lock up with video and audio corruption. It would even do that on the boot screen, I think it was probably overheating. Maybe eventually it would have given me red rings, maybe not. Anyway, it sucks that they are so specific about the coverage, I would hate to be in the position of having a broken console that I have to try to convince to red-ring instead of locking up.

[drakkarim]

wow, seriously, wow.

mine was made in end of 06, so this makes me a happy camper.

[Khash]

Pretty amazing. A tip of the cap to you, Mr. Moore.

[Limech]

So there goes any chance of the 360 making any money at all in its lifetime. I wonder how the investors will feel about this.

[The Continental]

Given the life cycle of an MS console, that should carry us straight through to the Xbox 720. I am pleased.

[the soUL TRAder]

Wow, I knew that they would step up, but how did I know it was gonna be a 3year warranty? Hmm, I must be some sort of Nostrodumbass ;) .

[Baron Samedi]

Damn. My guess is that *** is buying really cheap chips, overclocking the shit out of them, stuffing them in 360s and then willingly letting them go kablooey simply because it's cheaper than actually buying good hardware. Just a guess, but three year's is a lot of money down the drain. I just can't fathom how else they're planning on upping that bottom line.

[crashedout]

They must be close to launching the IPTV stuff, they need to have no doubt left if they want to take over the living room.

[galactic empire]

This is pretty good at this point, it means that any console bought from today and onward will likely be covered for the realistic lifetime I expect for the 360 (I think it will have a successor by the time they're not covered). Still kind of lacking in that those of us that got one at launch are going to be left out of coverage for about three years of what I expect it to take before Microsoft puts out another console, but it is pretty nice. Especially if they step up the repairs and find a way to really fix them, so that if one does break in that three year period, you'll get one back that should be fixed.I'm pretty sure it states that all 360's are covered.

[Ancalagon]

Wow, you gotta hand it to MS. This will turn all the haters around, and make them look lovingly at MS, and say, "I know you tried your best, I forgive you".

In short, this will save their asses.

What I dont understand is why the problem wasnt nipped in the bud.

Put it this way, your console launches, and you get about 33% return rate, within 3 months of launching. Alarm bells should be ringing at this point.

Question is, how expensive is it to service consoles? If many of them were out of warranty services, then maybe not so expensive. If not, then very expensive. made more expensive by the fact that they had to extend the warranty because it was so bad.

what I want to know is, given that a minor change in hardware can fix it, or greatly reduce its chances of occuring, why wasnt this done? I mean, for like an extra $20 per console, you could fix it. better cooling. better motherboard glue. pay for lots of bubble gum to stick the motherboard down if you have to. But doesnt $20 per console seem better than as much as $100 - $200 for 33% of consoles, considering you will get repeat returns, and repeat returns under warranty, and the risk of people selling their consoles and not buying your software any more, or the risk of them not buying future MS products?

sounds like bad business sense to me, but I guess I dont run a multi billion dollar corporation, what do I know?

[TheFlyingOrc]

That 33% thing WAS anecdotal, however. I think we're looking more at 10-15%, which is still unacceptable.

However, this definately restores some confidence in the brand, something they needed.

[Wslove]

When mine died it would just lock up with video and audio corruption. It would even do that on the boot screen, I think it was probably overheating. Maybe eventually it would have given me red rings, maybe not. Anyway, it sucks that they are so specific about the coverage, I would hate to be in the position of having a broken console that I have to try to convince to red-ring instead of locking up.

Just keep turning it on and off. Also taking off the hard drive and turning it on would work. My brother's box had the same problem with the freezes. I tried pretty much every trick in the book to force it back to working (since I saw no red rings I thought it could be saved). Low and behold once the hard drive was off and I turned it on I got the red rings. Once the rings show up it falls under the extended warrenty and you are all good to go.

[Choralone]

In all the trouble I have had with my 360's (mostly for the system constantly freezing), I have to hand it to Microsoft for having stellar Customer Service. I've always been treated fairly and decently when I have dealt with them, and this extended warranty just makes me even more impressed. At least they are willing to admit there are issues, and do something about them.

[agentgray]

Wow. Good for Microsoft to CYA from a Class Action Suit.

Good for them. However, spare me the Microsoft is making sacrifices line...

[Tjuba]

Its nice that they are starting to get serious on the problem.

If Microsoft is nice for extending the warranty or if they are just doing what should be expected of them for releasing faulty hardware is debatable though.

But the thing is still breaks which is the main problem. So I would wait with jumping of joy and throw your money around until they announce at least a 50% failure rate reduction.

[Telefrog]

Wow. I am really amazed. MS has really nailed this one.

Well, I guess I'll stop bitching about this issue and move on to something else. Hey, how about that Games For Vista?

[fatefodder]

Certainly a nice gesture for the audience, but I wonder what this does for the console's image. Just yesterday I had a visit from a friend whom I haven't seen since college, and upon seeing my Xbox 360, asked if it had broken yet (in fact, my first 360 from launch was dead out of the box).

He was a fan of more than a few 360 games, but had heard so much talk about 360's failing that he currently only had a Wii and was waiting on the sidelines for either to stop hearing about 360's breaking, or for the PLAYSTATION 3 to get some good games. Does this anouncement justify all the criticism against the 360's reliability?

[SPBTooL]

This is great news for me. I have a pre-launch 360 that is still alive and kicking. Now I have some piece of mind for the next 16 months.

Edit: Hmm, should I now start hoping mine dies soon so I can get the modifications on it?

[51|RandoM]

This is much better PR than a class action lawsuit, and probably better for the bottom line in the longterm.

I predict that machines that didn't have the red rings will have the red rings after the 1-year warranty runs out for every thing else. ;)

[GAThrawn]

What I dont understand is why the problem wasnt nipped in the bud.

Put it this way, your console launches, and you get about 33% return rate, within 3 months of launching. Alarm bells should be ringing at this point.


This is pretty bad... as far as I know this is unprecedented in the gaming industry. Microsoft should stay where they're most comfortable and make operating systems.

[Wslove]

Damn. My guess is that *** is buying really cheap chips, overclocking the shit out of them, stuffing them in 360s and then willingly letting them go kablooey simply because it's cheaper than actually buying good hardware. Just a guess, but three year's is a lot of money down the drain. I just can't fathom how else they're planning on upping that bottom line.

First off the *** crap went out of style around 4 years ago and if you still think it's funny or cool then you likely have penguins (and not the cool Bap kind) all over your basement room at your mom's house.

Second it was already discovered by someone who blew through a number of Xboxes and decided to open it up that the defect is in the way the Xbox distrubutes heat away from the chips. First shipment didn't have enough cooling on the GPU and that would blow out, causing the red eye of death. They corrected that problem by adding an assload of thermal paste at the point where the chips socketed into the motherboard. Unfortunately while this kept the chips cool the motherboard got the brunt of heat as it radiated from paste to the plastic of the board. This would cause the board to actually warp, dislodging the chips from their sockets, and that would trigger a hardware failure. In short they traded one heat problem for another. Now the word is they fixed this problem (hopefully) by adding the same type of heat pipe over the GPU that is over the CPU and funneling the heat away from everything and toward the fans to blow it out the back.

And for the record, your supposed idea has to be the dumbest I've ever heard. No company, not even Microsoft, would make money that way because production costs don't work like that. Go back to the shadow beneath the bridge troll.

[galactic empire]

I just called X Box and the rep told me that my launch day 360 is covered until nov 22 2008. Coulor me impressed.

[Kamalot]

This is totally incredible news. Major props to Microsoft for standing firmly behind their product with a completely unprecedented 3 year warranty. I'm gonna go home, turn on my 360, and wrap it in some wool blankets to celebrate.

[BrainDrain]

Funny timing since my 2nd console is awaiting repair. I wonder if I can get a refund since I'm having to pay to have this one fixed (out of warranty).

[Jack B]

Wow, I didn't expect this...

The thing that amazed me most about all the 360 failures was the almost unanimous, "I can't wait to get my 360 back..." comments. People seem to love their 360's even through multiple failures.

I've been lucky with no issues on my launch system, but I feel great now. I have another 18 months of warranty! Kudos to Microsoft, that's stepping up big time.

This should help sales.

[Rook34]

What happened? Remember back in the day when MS was the company everyone loved to hate? So cool to see them really take care of their customers. Hurray for MS. Nice to see customers win for a change. This will go a long way this generation and will secure even more loyalty for those generations to come.

[Jack B]

This is pretty bad... as far as I know this is unprecedented in the gaming industry. Microsoft should stay where they're most comfortable and make operating systems.

So, how does your logic explain the excellent quality of the original Xbox? They made both. Not to mention the poor quality of the PS2....

Shit happens. The 360 is/was very poor quality, but manufacturing problems happen. If every manufacturer got out of the business , that came out with a car with high repair issues, we wouldn't have any car manufacturers left. Some years of the same car are better than others. Add toasters, iPods, or tv's or practically anything to the list as well.

Nice try raining on the parade, but this is actually good news.

[GunnyMo]

Nice job, big MS. Way to raise the customer service bar. :) It's great to see a company step up like that, in any industry, in today's world.

[Wslove]

This is pretty bad... as far as I know this is unprecedented in the gaming industry. Microsoft should stay where they're most comfortable and make operating systems.

Yep, they should just pack it up right now and go back to the OS market. They've done nothing good. Haven't taken the market lead. Haven't secured any major, hotly anticipated titles, haven't really done anything other then make a bunch of shoddy boxes that just sit there. Not playing fantastic games. </sarcasm>

It's one thing to be precieved as a douch. It's another to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[Lima Beans]

I bought a 3 year warranty from Microsoft already =/

[Tjuba]

What happened? Remember back in the day when MS was the company everyone loved to hate? So cool to see them really take care of their customers. Hurray for MS. Nice to see customers win for a change. This will go a long way this generation and will secure even more loyalty for those generations to come.

What happened is that they are in a market were they don't have monopoly.
If the PS3 would fail you would probably start to recognise the old MS.

And the opposite is true as well I guess.
Hurray for competition, I say. Fanboys seem to forget that :)

[51|RandoM]

Haven't taken the market lead.

You might want to pull that bit out of your sarcasm post, as they haven't actually done that and will not(IMHO) do that this generation.

[Watership]

This is still a dance around the fact that they've known about this issue for a LONG time, and really haven't made the necessary changes to the manufacturing process to fix the actual issue. When you still see a high failure rate with the Elites, that shows a lack of effort in my mind. It's nice that they've extended the warranty, but I'd much rather have a console that's gonna last for years to come without having to ship it in once a year and be without it for 2 or more weeks during that time period.

Torgo, corporations don't admit problems in the way your talking about. They fix them, apologize for the problem existing, and try to make people move on. IF they admit a problem, they open themselves up to legal action. The only reason a corp will do that is if the item or service they offer is a risk to human injury or lives.

[fitbabits]

This news is everywhere..., and it's being viewed overwhelmingly positively. A great move by Microsoft, and one which should be applauded.

[Loki_09]

I just hope MS learns from this. Your product is incredibly fun, you have a faithful group of followers, so in the future, make sure you hardware is solid. A pipe dream likely, but owning up to the problems is the first step towards recovery.

[wyeast]

The Good: MS finally nutting up and covering this overheating hose beasts.

The Bad: I've now officially bought the Best Buy 2-year warranty for no good reason at all. :mad:

[Kamalot]

You might want to pull that bit out of your sarcasm post, as they haven't actually done that and will not(IMHO) do that this generation.
Currently, Microsoft holds the worldwide lead in next-generation consoles sold (http://www.vgchartz.com/). You could argue that they aren't the market leader when considering previous generation systems; but if that's your angle, I'll include all the GameCubes, SNES, and NES units sold to trump you.

Face it, Microsoft is the market leader right now.
Denying it shows your true colors.

Edit: If anyone will unseat Microsoft this generation, it is Nintendo with the Wii, and not the PS3.

[Mark Rein]

Way to go Microsoft! That took a lot of balls (and a billion dollar write-down!)

[Ozymandias]

Nice work Microsoft on the extended warranty. Now you just have to roll out a redesign to end these problems.

Already done (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/petermooreletter.htm):

We have been following this issue closely, and with on-going testing have identified several factors that can cause a general hardware failure indicated by three flashing red lights on the console. To address this issue, and as part of our ongoing work, we have already made certain improvements to the console.

[Sandman]

Way to go Microsoft! That took a lot of balls (and a billion dollar write-down!)

:eek: Mark Rein is back!!!

[ECM]

Way to go Microsoft! That took a lot of balls (and a billion dollar write-down!)

It sure does beat a billion dollar class action, though, doesn't it? :rolleyes:

[DangerousDaze]

Might still be an idea to wait until the incidences of failure start to ramp down before purchasing. A 3 year warranty isn't so great if you spend the whole time waiting for it to come back from the repair shop, whether it's a free repair or not.

It's still a good move from Microsoft for its existing customer base and it needs to promote the hardware modifications it's making in order to resolve the problem in the medium term.

[fitbabits]

:eek: Mark Rein is back!!!
"Back" implies he went somewhere else. He's been here all along, making sure we get shit right. :)

[Kamalot]

:eek: Mark Rein is back!!!
Mark never left. He lurks until I say something nasty about him. Then he materializes to smack me down with kind words. ;-)

[Tyler Durden84]

i called MS to have them fix my 360. it broke 3 or 4 months ago and i refused to pay the $160 to fix it. so for my b-day, my parents said they would pay the cost of repairs and when i called to send it in, the operator said it would be free. that renewed my faith in them. now to ensure said renewed faith, i hope this repaired system doesnt break again.

[claws]

Awesome news. I've been hating on MS like a madman on this, but I didn't actually expect them to do anything about it. Maybe I can risk buying Forza now. I love MS a little more today :)

[court12b]

Damn, this seems like an almost DIRECT response to yesterday's story that implied a 33% failure rate.

Personally I can't decide if this pushes me towards the x-box or away from it. What's the warranty of the ps3? Ah, 1 year. hm

[Zacharai]

The Bad: I've now officially bought the Best Buy 2-year warranty for no good reason at all. :mad:
Naw, man, the MS warranty only covers the red rings — if you have another problem, you still get it fixed for free. Also, you (presumably) can just bring it in to Best Buy for issues instead of shipping and waiting for it to be fixed.

Good on MS. I know I don't beat the shit out my 360 like some of you nuts, so mine has yet to break, but I like the added comfort. Three years strikes me as a perfect customer-oriented warranty length.

This is the second time in a week I've been completely surprised by an announcement, the other being Libby's commuted sentence.

[KarmaGhost]

Nice! My warranty was automatically extended when I used my credit card by one year, giving me a 2 year warranty. It's nice to have an extra year now.

[fitbabits]

I know I'm probably jinxing myself here, but I'm still playing on my launch 360 with no problems...

[Telefrog]

I'm really curious to read the various MS employee blogs to see their individual takes on this news. I know no one will say anything bad about it, or even illuminate us with some hard numbers on the failure rate, but I'm sure we'll see some interesting stories about this.

I'd love to know how long this deal was in the works and who was the major champion behind it.

[Heretic Machine]

I'm pretty sure it states that all 360's are covered.

Yes... for three years from the date of purchase. Which, as I said, means that people who buy one today will probably be covered until the next MS console. But people who had one at launch are only going to be covered until late '08, and will still have a year or two to wait before I expect to see the next XBOX. It is still good, but that is what I was saying.

[Metal Jesus]

Wow. That's pretty f'n cool of Microsoft.

[GrinR]

Finally! So now we won't have to read the daily posts about 360 failure rates?

yeah right

[ECM]

Finally! So now we won't have to read the daily posts about 360 failure rates?

yeah right

Yep, and you can stop telling people that it's because they let a roving band of gorillas into their home to destroy their 360, rather than a clear-cut design flaw that affected tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people and which MS is now admitting actually *does* exist.

Pesky gorillas...

[Tel Prydain]

What happened? Remember back in the day when MS was the company everyone loved to hate? So cool to see them really take care of their customers. Hurray for MS. Nice to see customers win for a change. This will go a long way this generation and will secure even more loyalty for those generations to come.

Microsoft always has been great when they were pitching their wares at you. That’s why gamers hated them, but businesses loved them.
The only difference is that now they are aiming at the home/game market, not big business.

[bapenguin]

I think this also proves that numbers like 33% and 50% are simply not true. The cost involved with that, and providing this, would be astronomical.

[51|RandoM]

Finally! So now we won't have to read the daily posts about 360 failure rates?

yeah right

Of course you will. Failure rates are in issue regardless of duration of warranty.

Not having to pay for repairs will make some people happier. It won't make them happy.

[Spigot]

This is great. I just got mine about 2 months ago so I'm still covered by the year warranty that was in effect, but I was starting to worry that I'd have to pony up the dough to cover an extended warranty after the year ended. Now I don't have to worry. A console that goes kerblooie after 3+ years, I can handle. One that might go dead after a year is not quite so...

I still thing that everyone needs to run their 360 flat. Not only do you have less of a chance of the system grinding discs (as they'll be lying flat instead of vertical) you also uncover one of the vents. I couldn't believe it that running the system vertical actually covers one of the vents... in a system renowned for its overheating issues.

But I digress. I'm just happy that I don't have to worry about the red rings anymore. I mean, I guess I do have to worry that they might happen, but I don't have to worry that I won't be covered.

[the soUL TRAder]

What happened is that they are in a market were they don't have monopoly.
If the PS3 would fail you would probably start to recognise the old MS.

And the opposite is true as well I guess.
Hurray for competition, I say. Fanboys seem to forget that :)

This fanbios remembers, everytime I look at my incredibly reliable, almost useless Dreamcast. It's also the reason PS3 can fail, the way they "compete" isn't needed. (Even though I'd rather see them Shut up and make some games)


Of course, MS is doing what they must, now that they realise they'll sell 40million more if reliablity isn't an issue.

It will definately turn a bunch of gaming frowns upside down.

[Grimmjow]

I find it very amusing that everyone is swinging from MS balls for extending the warranty instead of actually fixing the problem.*Golf Clap* Fix the damn problem, who in the hell wants to keep sending in there unit to get repaired for the same issue. I know I don't.

[Mdot23]

so how/when do we get our money back?

[RMan]

Face it, Microsoft is the market leader right now.
Denying it shows your true colors.
That depends entirely on what you mean by 'market' and ‘leader’. In the support of your argument you say next generation consoles sold, then strip that down and call that ‘the market’, you can’t expect everyone to be on board with your definition of ‘market leader’ (which is basically defined as where MS is winning for the next four or so months). In terms of the game market, which I’d wager is how most people would interpret ‘market’ in this context, they are most certainly not in the lead.

[Micasa]

This is still a dance around the fact that they've known about this issue for a LONG time, and really haven't made the necessary changes to the manufacturing process to fix the actual issue. When you still see a high failure rate with the Elites, that shows a lack of effort in my mind. It's nice that they've extended the warranty, but I'd much rather have a console that's gonna last for years to come without having to ship it in once a year and be without it for 2 or more weeks during that time period.

I find it very amusing that everyone is swinging from MS balls for extending the warranty instead of actually fixing the problem.*Golf Clap* Fix the damn problem, who in the hell wants to keep sending in there unit to get repaired for the same issue. I know I don't.

I wondered how many people wouldn't bother to actually read the letter. They cover the fact that they've isolated some problems and are making changes.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Way to go Microsoft! That took a lot of balls (and a billion dollar write-down!)
Hi, Mark! I just got your game, and I drive by your work all the time.

You're still an arrogant prick, but Gears is nice. ;)

[theguido]

A great move by Microsoft, but it definitely lends some credence to the idea that the failure rate was inordinately high.

[Slowpc]

Wow... that is really good of MS for doing this.

[TheFlyingOrc]

"Back" implies he went somewhere else. He's been here all along, making sure we get shit right. :)
Let's draw him out!

I heard Unreal Tournament 3 was cancelled forever.

[MrSatan]

LOL, Finally Microsoft does something right. After they have lied and denied that the failure rate was that high, its nice to see them doing something about it. Still people shouldn't be screaming about how generous Microsoft is by making a warranty like this. There would never be a warranty this good if the damn thing didn't die every five minutes. Now they need to acknowledge the disc scratching issue and stop playing dumb.

[DangerousDaze]

I think this also proves that numbers like 33% and 50% are simply not true. The cost involved with that, and providing this, would be astronomical.
Yeah, the cost would be over a billion. Wait a minute...

[TheFlyingOrc]

LOL, Finally Microsoft does something right. After they have lied and denied that the failure rate was that high, its nice to see them doing something about it. Still people shouldn't be screaming about how generous Microsoft is by making a warranty like this. There would never be a warranty this good if the damn thing didn't die every five minutes. Now they need to acknowledge the disc scratching issue and stop playing dumb.
Sony didn't ever do it for the PS2....

[bapenguin]

I find it very amusing that everyone is swinging from MS balls for extending the warranty instead of actually fixing the problem.*Golf Clap* Fix the damn problem, who in the hell wants to keep sending in there unit to get repaired for the same issue. I know I don't.

It's a PR move. It indirectly shows that they have fixed the problem, or know how to fix it and will shortly. In the meantime this gets everyone who was wary about it to go buy the system.

[fitbabits]

Oh, and a note to Sony (or any other company, for that matter, who is suffering a PR crisis) - this is how you create GREAT PR from a potentially disastrous situation.

[Torgo]

Oh, and a note to Sony (or any other company, for that matter, who is suffering a PR crisis) - this is how you create GREAT PR from a potentially disastrous situation.

They could have done that a year ago by FIXING THEIR MANUFACTURING PROCESS

Sorry, but the fact that people are praising them for this move so much bothers me to no end. It's great that they have extended the warranty, but to let this issue go on for as long as it has is ridiculous.

[Vanthar]

God MS must be happy they have infinite money cuz this isn't exactly gonna bring the Xbox division back to profits.

[oldjadedgamer]

This is pretty bad... as far as I know this is unprecedented in the gaming industry. Microsoft should stay where they're most comfortable and make operating systems.

Did you just start gaming in the last year? You know that Sony settled a class action lawsuit over PS2 faulty hardware right?

Sony didn't ever do it for the PS2....

Even after they settled the class action lawsuit over the DRE's, they still denied anything was wrong with their systems.

[Micasa]

They could have done that a year ago by FIXING THEIR MANUFACTURING PROCESS

Sorry, but the fact that people are praising them for this move so much bothers me to no end. It's great that they have extended the warranty, but to let this issue go on for as long as it has is ridiculous.

Did it bother you when Sony had to be sued into compensating PS2 owners? Or when they refused to replace PSP units with faulty buttons from the poor design? Or that your PS3 controller still doesn't rumble, but you can expect to buy a new one soon - for a little more - that will?

I get the feeling it bothers you this much because it's Microsoft more than anything.

But really, I guess with "http://playstationnationpodcast.com" in your sig you couldn't be caught being positive about it.

[Micasa]

Let's draw him out!

I heard Unreal Tournament 3 was cancelled forever.

I heard Unreal Tournament 3 is dropping the Unreal Engine because it's too hard to work with.

[bean19]

This is still a dance around the fact that they've known about this issue for a LONG time, and really haven't made the necessary changes to the manufacturing process to fix the actual issue. When you still see a high failure rate with the Elites, that shows a lack of effort in my mind. It's nice that they've extended the warranty, but I'd much rather have a console that's gonna last for years to come without having to ship it in once a year and be without it for 2 or more weeks during that time period.

1. Well, they did step up and extend the warranty for over a year. That covered everyone until just about 6 months ago, so it wasn't a complete clusterfuck.

2. The story indicates that they are going to make fixes to systems that are sent in and newly manufactured ones. This means that if you have a problem currently, you can expect a 360 with real fixes to it to be returned to you, and if you buy one today (well, after the ones that have substantive fixes in them make it through the retail channel - probably 3 months or so), then you can expect one with real hardware fixes straight out of the box.

Sure, it would have been great for them to have acted on this more quickly, but I imagine it takes a LOT of convincing to show the high muckity-mucks why it is in their best interest to lose millions and millions of dollars on fixing hardware.

[DeathtollWRX]

Microsoft is awesome.. no more haters!

[Hexxagonal]

Did anyone notice what $1,000,000,000 / $130 is equal to? da da da!!!!

[fitbabits]

They could have done that a year ago by FIXING THEIR MANUFACTURING PROCESS

Sorry, but the fact that people are praising them for this move so much bothers me to no end. It's great that they have extended the warranty, but to let this issue go on for as long as it has is ridiculous.
Here's where you're wrong...

Microsoft have recognized there are problems and have extended the warranty a couple of times before this, so your accusation that they "let it go on for as long [as this]" is baseless.

Now, let's examine how Sony handled PS2 failure rates. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139482.html)

[Crimson]

I think this also proves that numbers like 33% and 50% are simply not true. The cost involved with that, and providing this, would be astronomical.

That is still an interesting thing I'm sure we'd all like to know. I mean, based on the dollar write-off and some most likely poor math on my part, wouldn't this be like fully replacing 2.5 million Premium 360s? Out of a total of 12 million shipped right now? I'm sure there are a bunch of administrative and shipping costs, and not all the systems would be Premiums, but it has to be fairly widespread for an over one billion dollar write-off?

Still, they get massive credit for stepping up to this. I wish they would have done it before me and my bros. systems died though.

Also, I'm betting that the MS Game Division's goal of being profitable by fiscal 2008 is gonna have some issues.

[Mashidar]

I didn't have a chance to read through the whole thread, I will later tonight when I have more free time.

But for those of you that have had issues in the past what was the method that you got your return? Did you need your orginal recepit? Did you just need to state when your model was manufactured?

My problem is I just started getting the three red lights but during the move the recepit that I got with the system when I bought it 12/05 has been lost. Should I attempt to hope that Target has records that far back? Or will it not be a problem when I tell them when the system was manufactured?

[Disgustipated]

Holy shit. Thank you MS, 3 year warranty is what we've really needed.

[Ozymandias]

I find it very amusing that everyone is swinging from MS balls for extending the warranty instead of actually fixing the problem.*Golf Clap* Fix the damn problem, who in the hell wants to keep sending in there unit to get repaired for the same issue. I know I don't.

Which part of this quote do you not understand?

We have been following this issue closely, and with on-going testing have identified several factors that can cause a general hardware failure indicated by three flashing red lights on the console. To address this issue, and as part of our ongoing work, we have already made certain improvements to the console.

[BlackPete]

This hit CNN as well. (http://money.cnn.com/2007/07/05/technology/microsoft_charge.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes)

Microsoft said on Thursday "an unacceptable number of repairs" to its Xbox 360 will force it to take a charge of more than $1 billion for its most recent quarter, and it announced a new, extended warranty for the videogame console.

Holy fucking shit! 1 Billion! That pretty much nukes any and all profits they might've otherwise made on hardware sales. Microsoft sure is lucky that they've got the Windows/Office cash cows to rely on because 1 Billion is one hell of a lot of money... and it's only going to go up now that the 3 year warranty is in place.

[Grimmjow]

I wondered how many people wouldn't bother to actually read the letter. They cover the fact that they've isolated some problems and are making changes.

riiiight how many times have you heard that before from a manufacturer, until I see it, I don't believe it.

[Grimmjow]

Which part of this quote do you not understand?

We have been following this issue closely, and with on-going testing have identified several factors that can cause a general hardware failure indicated by three flashing red lights on the console. To address this issue, and as part of our ongoing work, we have already made certain improvements to the console.

its not about NOT understanding, read the post just before this one.

[BlackPete]

Holy shit. Thank you MS, 3 year warranty is what we've really needed.

I agree. It was sorely needed, and it was also great to hear that they're willing to refund anyone who've had to pay for repairs up to this date.

On the flip side... it would've been even nicer if none of this was necessary in the first place if their hardware designers had've done their research first!

[Micasa]

riiiight how many times have you heard that before from a manufacturer, until I see it, I don't believe it.

Well that ALSO comes alongside reports that newly returned units have improved heatsinks.

How far in the sand is your head buried?

[DangerousDaze]

I'm a bit fuzzy on this class action lawsuit everyone's talking about? Is this the Canadian one where they agreed to offer a check for $25 ($31 Canadian), a free PS2 game from a specified list, or a free or reduced cost repair or replacement? If so then this is light-years away from the problems that Microsoft has (until now) denied. Was there another hardware-related CAL?

[GAThrawn]

So, how does your logic explain the excellent quality of the original Xbox? They made both. Not to mention the poor quality of the PS2....

Shit happens. The 360 is/was very poor quality, but manufacturing problems happen. If every manufacturer got out of the business , that came out with a car with high repair issues, we wouldn't have any car manufacturers left. Some years of the same car are better than others. Add toasters, iPods, or tv's or practically anything to the list as well.

Nice try raining on the parade, but this is actually good news.
Yeah, every product is certain to have some failed merchandise reach consumers, but there is a threshold of what's acceptable. 15 to 30-odd % is unacceptable. Can you imagine if 15% of the engines of a mazda 3-series car locked up after 1000 miles? Do you think they'd just extend the warranty or would they have a complete recall? (Recall firestone tires.)

Microsoft failed miserably during their product deveolpment cylce. These issues shoud've been ironed out before the 360 reached consumers. Now they have to play catch up - and people are regaling the fact that they have extended their warranty period.... That's pretty poor.

[Deja vu]

Ok, this is fucking great news!!!
However if i have the oner red light problem 'E74 Error' am i covered by this good news???

Sorry if this has already been covered but i cannot be arsed to read through all the posts!!!

[dotbomb]

This isn't just MS being nice. I'd gladly take a $1 billion write off against income today for the chance that the 3 year warranty contract might scratch the surface of that write down in the distant future.

[fitbabits]

I'm a bit fuzzy on this class action lawsuit everyone's talking about? Is this the Canadian one where they agreed to offer a check for $25 ($31 Canadian), a free PS2 game from a specified list, or a free or reduced cost repair or replacement? If so then this is lightyears away from the problems that Micrsoft has (until now) denied. Was there another one?
You're only fuzzy because the news kicks against your beliefs. :)

I posted the following link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139482.html) earlier.

[Grimmjow]

Well that ALSO comes alongside reports that newly returned units have improved heatsinks.

How far in the sand is your head buried?

I see your high on the 360 bandwagon, I don't know how to rephrase this any clearer then I already have, until I stop seeing this broke ass consoles drop like flies then I will not believe what they say. The job I work in I see these die alot, and this is from the "supposedly new" hardware changes. I'm just stating a point, you can take it or run with it or whatever you wanna do with it but anything I say isn't going to change your mind so why even respond to this?

[Goronmon]

My console sucks, but it's survived and I haven't gotten the 3 rings yet. I actually hope it does so I no longer have to deal with the jet engine hard drive and the constant freezing.

[Micasa]

PS2 consoles, including some brand-new ones, would not read discs. Sony refused to do anything for the people affected, and they had to pay to get them repaired.

The suit was settled in, I believe, 2005 - with Sony still refusing to admit there was anything wrong with the units.

[MrSatan]

In Response to the PS2 class-action suite
Cause they didn't need to. People were having disc-read errors 2 to 3 years down the road. Also the read-errors were fairly intermittent, unlike the 360 problem. I should know too, because I was one of the ones who got their PS2 fixed by Sony. I recieved a nice reply from them about how they were sorry about the problems and that they hoped they were all fixed for me. Still it pisses me off Microsoft won't officially acknowledge the problem and issue an apology to customers. With the amount of money they have they should get the manufacturing process right. Everyone needs to get off Microsoft's nuts and realize that they should get an excellent product right off the bat for what they payed for.

[DangerousDaze]

You're only fuzzy because the news kicks against your beliefs. :)

I posted the following link (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6139482.html) earlier.
Hey, just today I've dismissed a $100 price cut for the PS3 as irrelevant until some decent games start to appear, and I also created a thread pimping a 360 game (PGR4 is looking pretty damn special and I appreciate quality whatever its source). I'm not your typical blinkered fanboy - I'm a whole different kind of blinkered fanboy! :p

Oh, and thanks for the link. Yes, it's the one I thought it was - nowhere near the same scale. Not even close. Seriously.

/edit - unless they had to cut over 40 million cheques (yes, I spelled that correctly).

[Rex Dart]

Thanks, Microsoft! This is much appreciated.

[Chameleo]

i'm gonna pick up an elite this month b/c of this news.

[Spigot]

Cause they didn't need to. People were having disc-read errors 3 to 5 years down the road. Not right off the bat like the 360. Still it pisses me off Microsoft won't officially acknowledge the problem and issue an apology to customers. With the amount of money they have they should get the manufacturing process right.As Ozymandias pointed out from the original letter, We have been following this issue closely, and with on-going testing have identified several factors that can cause a general hardware failure indicated by three flashing red lights on the console. To address this issue, and as part of our ongoing work, we have already made certain improvements to the console. Sounds like an official acknowledgement to me. From everything I've seen, they've never said that there wasn't an issue, it was just that they were never giving numbers to declare whether it was a minor issue (2-3%) or a major one (35%).

The fact that they are also upping the warranty really helps to alleviate a lot of concerns people might have that they're buying a time-bomb that'll blow up after a year.

Of course, it would have been great if they'd isolated the heat issues after the first batch of units went out and started killing small children, and it does boggle the mind that it's taking them this long to make major changes to their manufacturing process, but unless everyone wants to wait another 6 months to a year, if not longer, this will get people over the hump until they get their act together.

[EvilTheBadger]

so how/when do we get our money back?

Yeah, as much as I commend MS for this, if I had already paid up for repairs to my console I know I'd be spitting flames right about now.

[WastelandDan]

I hardly think this makes up for their previous lack of acceptance, but at least this shows that they're (eventually) willing to own up to their mistakes. Still, I kind of wish we could get a straight-up apology without the whole "the majority of xbox owners love their consoles!" I mean sure, I've had my 360 break and yes, I still love it, but you'd think that at least once we could get an apology without the corporate rhetoric.

[the soUL TRAder]

its not about NOT understanding, read the post just before this one.

I'm gonna vote that it obviously is about NOT understanding.
(or not wanting to more likely)

They fixed problems, maybe not all, but most likely the ones causing the majority of problems.

[BlackPete]

Now that I've skimmed over the thread, I have a question -- for those of you claiming that this is a PR move to get people to feel better about buying a 360 today:

Why would this encourage you to buy a 360 today? They've stated that they've isolated the issue(s) and are in the process of fixing (or have fixed) the problem(s). Wouldn't it be better to wait at least a couple of months before the fixed 360s started hitting shelves?

[wezlypipz]

This is great, no problems yet, but I'm beginning to think I'm on borrowed time.

[GrinR]

Yep, and you can stop telling people that it's because they let a roving band of gorillas into their home to destroy their 360, rather than a clear-cut design flaw that affected tens (hundreds?) of thousands of people and which MS is now admitting actually *does* exist.

Pesky gorillas...

I've said it a million times, the existence of a problem doesn't describe the cause of the problem. Unofficial polls, opinions, and "buzz" are useless data sources, excellent for getting page hits, but little more. I've never denied the fact that 360s have failed, what I've questioned is the scope of the failures and the reasons for failure.

Perhaps more threads about it will magically produce this information?

Again, yeah right.

[Kamalot]

I find it very amusing that everyone is swinging from MS balls for extending the warranty instead of actually fixing the problem.*Golf Clap* Fix the damn problem, who in the hell wants to keep sending in there unit to get repaired for the same issue. I know I don't.
Yes. My Xbox 360 broke down. I had to have it repaired. It was a hassle, but only because I wanted to play all of the awesome games I have for it.

If my PS3 broke down, I wouldn't miss it.

[Zacharai]

…until I stop seeing this broke ass consoles drop like flies then I will not believe what they say. The job I work in I see these die alot, and this is from the "supposedly new" hardware changes.
Well, the 'supposedly new' hardware changes only have been reported in the last month, so I doubt you'll see massive improvements until it propogates through the general population (which will take time). Also, they should be going to the 65-nm process by early next year, which will reduce the heat issues considerably. I don't exactly see why you think they're lying.

Do you think they'd just extend the warranty or would they have a complete recall? (Recall firestone tires.)
Great analogy! Because an unexpected 360 failure can, you know, fucking kill you.

[Chainblast]

This is mostly good news for those that already own a 360, but doesn't do much for those that don't. The failure rate remains the same, chances are many people will still be sending the system in for repairs just like before. What should have accompanied this press release was a target date for a hardware revision that eliminates the known problems.

That would have been something to bust a nut over. This isn't.

[BlackPete]

I've said it a million times, the existence of a problem doesn't describe the cause of the problem. Unofficial polls, opinions, and "buzz" are useless data sources, excellent for getting page hits, but little more.

I disagree with that.

One or two websites with a rant or two would be useless.

Hundreds (if not thousands) of websites all saying basically the same thing, then you really gotta wonder. That alone should tell you something, no?

[jadkins555]

I bought a 3 year warranty from Microsoft already =/

I just sent a letter to Microsoft asking for mine to be cancelled and refunded due to this announcement.

[GigaFuzz]

They are very specific about only covering 3 Red Rings errors. Nearly all of my problems have been screen freezing. Only twice have I had the red lights, but the problems seem to be related. Do you think there will be any chance they'll cover freezing consoles?

Also, if you say that a console is red ringing, I don't see how they can prove that it isn't.

[GunnyMo]

In Response to the PS2 class-action suite
Cause they didn't need to. People were having disc-read errors 2 to 3 years down the road. Also the read-errors were fairly intermittent, unlike the 360 problem. I should know too, because I was one of the ones who got their PS2 fixed by Sony. I recieved a nice reply from them about how they were sorry about the problems and that they hoped they were all fixed for me. Still it pisses me off Microsoft won't officially acknowledge the problem and issue an apology to customers. With the amount of money they have they should get the manufacturing process right. Everyone needs to get off Microsoft's nuts and realize that they should get an excellent product right off the bat for what they payed for.

Sorry, I have to jump on that. DRE were "intermittent"?! Did you know anyone who was not on their 2nd or 3rd or more PS2? How is MS not "officially recognizing" the problem? They've extended the warranty, have said there are issues they are working on and fixing. How much more "recognition" is needed?

I worked for EB and then GS damn near since the launch of the PS2. Multiple PS2s were returned/traded/exchanged weekly for the DRE issue until I left GS last year. To say the problem was "intermittent" is just plain ignorant.

I continually find the blind faith fundamentalism in Sony to be amazing (and yes, there are people who are just as bad with MS and Nintendo but since this argument is about Sony and MS, I mention Sony foremost).

MS, to me, is actively working to address these issues. Sony refused, and still does, to acknowledge any problems with the PS2.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to playing Dragon Quest VIII on my PS2 before the DRE creeps up...again. :p

[GrinR]

I disagree with that.

One or two websites with a rant or two would be useless.

Hundreds (if not thousands) of websites all saying basically the same thing, then you really gotta wonder. That alone should tell you something, no?

It tells me that Paris Hilton is fascinating.

[MrSatan]

As Ozymandias pointed out from the original letter, Sounds like an official acknowledgement to me. From everything I've seen, they've never said that there wasn't an issue, it was just that they were never giving numbers to declare whether it was a minor issue (2-3%) or a major one (35%).


Thats not an apology, they are just skirting the issue. I paid for my damn broken 360 to get repairs 2 times and now they do this. They better send me back some money then for my repairs, because otherwise it is bullshit. Doing something after the fact does not change the problem. The 360 is a very unstable piece of hardware and this stupid warranty doesn't change that fact. Unless they shell out money for the shipping and loss of playtime for my previous console, then I could care less about this. Also I am not a Sony fanboy, I love my computer the most. I got rid of my shitty 360 after the second death, I figured I could get most of the games for PC anyways.

[bean19]

Yes... for three years from the date of purchase. Which, as I said, means that people who buy one today will probably be covered until the next MS console. But people who had one at launch are only going to be covered until late '08, and will still have a year or two to wait before I expect to see the next XBOX. It is still good, but that is what I was saying.

I actually looked for your reply on this Perigon since I know you have been demanding that Microsoft take responsibility for the hardware failures.

3 years is way more than I expected, and I think that if it dies after this time; well, I had to buy 3 Playstations 2's during it's lifespan. Plus, even with my launch console, I expect that a 360 with a hard-drive will be only about $200 in 3 years, or I can mail it in and pay for the repair for only $100.

So, even as one of those people who aren't fully-covered as you mentioned, I'm really happy.

[Telefrog]

It's amazing to me how some people can turn this into bad news. What the fuck did you think MS was going to do? Recall all the 360 consoles until the solution was finalized and let the competition gain back their lead? Be realistic.

Look, I was one of the most vocal critics of the Red Ring of Death issue on these boards. It sucks that MS didn't have this ironed out before the initial batches shipped. (Hell, for all I know it was a calculated move on their part to oust Sony by shipping a year earlier despite the design flaw.) It should not have shipped with these problems.

On the flip side, I have to give it to them on the resolution. This is a massively smart move on their part. It negates a lot of the bad press concerning the hardware failures and it reinforces their "Xbox Community" effort. Shit, look at all the posts from people in this thread in which people say this is the news that will put them over the fence and buy a 360.

[Micasa]

"They better send me back some money then for my repairs, because otherwise it is bullshit."

Didn't read it, I take it? They state very clearly that anyone paying earlier would be refunded.

[GunnyMo]

I hardly think this makes up for their previous lack of acceptance, but at least this shows that they're (eventually) willing to own up to their mistakes. Still, I kind of wish we could get a straight-up apology without the whole "the majority of xbox owners love their consoles!" I mean sure, I've had my 360 break and yes, I still love it, but you'd think that at least once we could get an apology without the corporate rhetoric.

heh, I'm no lawyer but in today's society, I believe, an apology is considered an admission of guilt and would leave MS even more open lawsuits. Ever have your car insurance company tell you to not apologize if you are ever in an accident? That can be turned around to say you were at fault because you said sorry. Same goes for doctors from what I've been reading lately.

I might be stretching things but that's my guess why we'll most likely not see Peter Moore saying, "We're sorry we sold you broken 360s."

[Grimmjow]

Yes. My Xbox 360 broke down. I had to have it repaired. It was a hassle, but only because I wanted to play all of the awesome games I have for it.

If my PS3 broke down, I wouldn't miss it.

awesome games BLEH!!!!!!!

I have nothing to come back with.

[MrSatan]

Sorry, I have to jump on that. DRE were "intermittent"?! Did you know anyone who was not on their 2nd or 3rd or more PS2? How is MS not "officially recognizing" the problem? They've extended the warranty, have said there are issues they are working on and fixing. How much more "recognition" is needed?

I worked for EB and then GS damn near since the launch of the PS2. Multiple PS2s were returned/traded/exchanged weekly for the DRE issue until I left GS last year. To say the problem was "intermittent" is just plain ignorant.

I continually find the blind faith fundamentalism in Sony to be amazing (and yes, there are people who are just as bad with MS and Nintendo but since this argument is about Sony and MS, I mention Sony foremost).

MS, to me, is actively working to address these issues. Sony refused, and still does, to acknowledge any problems with the PS2.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to playing Dragon Quest VIII on my PS2 before the DRE creeps up...again. :p

I've known 1 person who has 2 ps2s and that is because they wanted the smaller revision. I am not saying Sony is any better than Microsoft on these kind of issues, but at least my PS2 was playable it's entire life-span. The only reason I got it fixed is because they offered to fix it for free. If I bought any product and it breaks on me 2 months down the road I would be pissed, it doesn't matter what fucking company it is from. It sickens me that you would relate this to that fanboy nonsense. People are way to quick nowadays to start with the fanboy accusations. Any product that has a fix like "Wrapping a towel around the system will fix it" needs some serious work.

[MrSatan]

My bad on the double post, site was acting weird.

[trip1eX]

They fixed the problem on new machines. From now on, the 3 red ring problem will be known as the 4 red ring problem with a new firmware update.

[BlackPete]

"They better send me back some money then for my repairs, because otherwise it is bullshit."

Didn't read it, I take it? They state very clearly that anyone paying earlier would be refunded.

His case is actually pretty curious to me -- he's stated that he's already gotten rid of his 360. I think that probably means he's SOL? Or if MS will simply refund the money regardless of whether he has it or not.

I imagine that they'll ask him if he still has the serial number of his 360 or ref # of his repairs, and if he doesn't have those...

[the soUL TRAder]

.........

You coulda saved us all some time trying to explain it.

I mean, if you hate MS and aren't going to by the POS, no matter WHAT they do, than, and only than, does your confusion make sense.

[TheDancinMan]

Hey, Satan, there's an edit button on posts next time you need to add a sentence.

Anyway, my question is, and no I haven't gone through all 8 pages of posts to find this out, do people who experience 3 red rings after the first full year get a new warranty even if the orignal has run out? If mine bricks right after a year, am I screwed?

[BlackPete]

It tells me that Paris Hilton is fascinating.

So you're equating an useless attention whore to the 360? For shame! :rolleyes:

[Hagetaka]

Thats not an apology, they are just skirting the issue. I paid for my damn broken 360 to get repairs 2 times and now they do this. They better send me back some money then for my repairs, because otherwise it is bullshit. Doing something after the fact does not change the problem. The 360 is a very unstable piece of hardware and this stupid warranty doesn't change that fact. Unless they shell out money for the shipping and loss of playtime for my previous console, then I could care less about this. Also I am not a Sony fanboy, I love my computer the most. I got rid of my shitty 360 after the second death, I figured I could get most of the games for PC anyways.

From TFA:
If we have let any of you down in the experience you have had with your Xbox 360, we sincerely apologize. We are taking responsibility and are making these changes to ensure that every Xbox 360 owner continues to have a great experience.

Try reading a little before you open your mouth and stuff it with stupid.

[JCtheMC]

I might buy one now, just to have it break on me.

[the soUL TRAder]

Hey, Satan, there's an edit button on posts next time you need to add a sentence.

Anyway, my question is, and no I haven't gone through all 8 pages of posts to find this out, do people who experience 3 red rings after the first full year get a new warranty even if the orignal has run out? If mine bricks right after a year, am I screwed?

I believe ALL 360 have a retroactive 3year, with any and all repair charges refunded.

[Loganrapp]

Knock on wood, my 360 hasn't ever had a problem (which is weird, because even without the widespread issues my nickname is "Walking EMP"), but it's good to know they're stepping up to keep customers happy.

[MrSatan]

From TFA:


Try reading a little before you open your mouth and stuff it with stupid.

I don't have my 360 anymore, I sold the damn thing because it kept dying on me. Does that mean they will pay me back for the repair fees even though I don't have the machine anymore. Nope, guess I'm shit outta luck, because I am not a loyal customer who doesn't care about the quality of the system.

[Kamalot]

Hey, Satan, there's an edit button on posts next time you need to add a sentence.
I love coming into a thread and seeing people instruct the prince of darkness on how to use Internet forums.

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

I think seeing threads by Satan asking for refunds for "lost play time" on consoles is sorta funny. Sure, sure, you eat the souls of children, but Microsoft has to compensate you for your lost play time?!?!? That really is funny. Unless you aren't who you say you are, but why should they warranty liars?!?! Liars I say!

Anyway, I think this was a great move by MS. Yes, it was irking me, yes we delayed buying a 360 because of this until there is a revision that proves itself ... but you know it will feel darn good to have a 360 knowing the most critical issue is warrantied for 3 years.

Some people see it as admission of guilt, I see it as admission (and acceptance of responsibility for) fixing the units. Frankly, I hope we get 3 year warranties and nobody needs them. That's the best win, and we all win then (including MS). Next best is if I win and MS has to fix the problems for 3 years.

And, I do think that warranties sell. If I have the choice between two next-gen consoles that offer similar functionality but one has a 3 year warranty, that has a lot of value to me. Similarly, if the competition has great hardware but won't warranty past the year, I wonder what they aren't telling me.

So, Sony should up their warranty too. If their hardware is a sturdy as they say (and it very well might be), then a 3 year warranty would not be too expensive.

I really do enjoy competition.

[GiantAshSnake]

Considering I'm still waiting for them to ship mine back after the RRoD, I'm pretty damn happy about getting my money back.

[kickmybum]

Damn. My guess is that *** is buying really cheap chips, overclocking the shit out of them, stuffing them in 360s and then willingly letting them go kablooey simply because it's cheaper than actually buying good hardware. Just a guess, but three year's is a lot of money down the drain. I just can't fathom how else they're planning on upping that bottom line.

Actually, I'm pretty sure they'll have this 3 light issue repaired in on-shelf models soon. The 3 year warranty ONLY covers issues with the 3 lights flashing. All they have to do is fix the base problem at the factory and it wont cost them a dime for the next 3 years, other than servicing the old-school ones.

Either that or they can just make their product do something else instead of flashing 3 lights when this error happens and suddenly, the warranty is void.

[Micasa]

It's pretty funny to see how many people, and who they are, trying to spin this as being negative.

[DaXIthR]

Good job by MS servicing. Here's hoping they keep the FedEx policy in place as well, so that turnaround is as quick as possible.

This is also MS admitting they don't know how to fix their hardware issues - which pretty abysmal considering it's been out for 20 months already.

Hardware failure be damned - this is still better than a PS3.

[TrackZero]

Smaller and with a flash drive in them:) Solid state all the way.

And with the price jump to boot. ;)

[eth3rton]

Sorry if this has already been asked. Does this mean that I have a 5 year warranty now after purchasing the 2 year extended warranty for my Elite...?

[Number Three]

It's important to note that the new 3 year warranty, and all retro-active reimbursements are about the red ring of death *only*.

"While we will still have a general one year console warranty (two years in some countries), we are announcing today a three-year warranty that covers any console that displays a three flashing red lights error message." - Peter Moore.

Also interesting is that the "$1.05 billion to $1.15 billion pre-tax charge to earnings for the quarter ended June 30, 2007 for anticipated costs under its current and enhanced Xbox 360 policies" factored for units shipped works out to around a 23.7% failure rate, using the projected shipped figures for the end of June. That's assuming that Microsoft pays full retail for their units. They might pay less, they might be absorbing a loss. Without hard data that's the best projection of the actual failure rate I can come up with.

[GrinR]

Try reading a little before you open your mouth and stuff it with stupid.

BAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaa


I just lolled in real life and scared my co-workers. That is classic.

[JimmyDanger]

With all these people trying to spin this into a "bad move" or "admission of guilt" or whatever the fuck I've just been reading - I wonder where EvAv get's this rep of Xbox bias.

In short - MS are backing their system BIG TIME. I've never had a console with a 3year warranty before. My 3rd Gen 40g Ipod (which I paid more for than my 360) lasted a little over 2 years - no coverage - and after 2 years - I equated my entertainment value received against money spent - and it still came out on top - so I bought another.

I won't even have to worry about that with my 360 now.

Repair fees refunded. ALL consoles sold from day one covered by a 3year warranty. Ongoing hardware revisions. An imminent price drop.

I can see why some blinkered few are trying to spin this negatively. They're shit-scared and in denial.

[Kefkataran]

For everyone giving Microsoft major props for doing this, it's worth keeping in mind that this is likely happening for two reasons:

1.) They finally isolated whatever problem was borking so many 360s and can now more or less definitively fix it.

2.) They were facing potential legal scuffles over the ever-growing stack of evidence on 360s breaking. It's questionable whether legal action ever would've happened in the U.S., but it was becoming VERY likely in Europe.

I'm more pleased than anyone that this has happened, but despite the PR spin, this isn't just a sign of insane good will on MS's part. Nevertheless, I'm happy.

With all these people trying to spin this into a "bad move" or "admission of guilt" or whatever the fuck I've just been reading - I wonder where EvAv get's this rep of Xbox bias.


To be fair, it *is* an admission of guilt -- they flat-out say that they've had serious problems that they can now fix. It's good that they're handling it this way, though.

[Chrome Dome]

Now I'm annoyed I got the 3 year warranty from Sam's when I picked up my 360, but at least I can drop it off locally if it dies...

Also don't forget to call it in to xbox before you drop it off at Sam's. My cousin's husband did that with the orriginal xbox and ended up getting his new xbox then another shipped to him by microsoft. When he called and told them what happened they told him to just keep it. Two xbox for the price of one. ;)

[Shodan2020]

That's pretty fuckin sweet, since my 360's DVD drive bit it a few days ago. The customer service guy I talked to only said my warranty was good until next year around April though. I guess he wasn't in on the news yet.

[Kefkataran]

For anyone looking for a bit more info on this, Patrick Klepek over at 1UP interviewed Peter Moore today:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160818

[BabyJesus]

For MS this type of support is unprecedented. Good for them and my XBOX360. Now I don't have to worry about repair of my 360 for like 5 years. Cool.

[Jack B]

Yeah, every product is certain to have some failed merchandise reach consumers, but there is a threshold of what's acceptable. 15 to 30-odd % is unacceptable. Can you imagine if 15% of the engines of a mazda 3-series car locked up after 1000 miles? Do you think they'd just extend the warranty or would they have a complete recall? (Recall firestone tires.)

Microsoft failed miserably during their product deveolpment cylce. These issues shoud've been ironed out before the 360 reached consumers. Now they have to play catch up - and people are regaling the fact that they have extended their warranty period.... That's pretty poor.

Could you back pedal any faster? No one said it wasn't a problem or more repairs than normal or even acceptable... No one. Not even Microsoft. In fact they extended their warranty to 3 years.... Read your original post and my reply.

You over reacted and said they should get out of the console hardware business. That's was a stupid thing to say and reeked of Microsoft hate or just plain uninformed negativity.

[BlackPete]

That's pretty fuckin sweet, since my 360's DVD drive bit it a few days ago. The customer service guy I talked to only said my warranty was good until next year around April though. I guess he wasn't in on the news yet.

It's only your DVD drive? Then no 3 year warranty for you. Not yours.

(3 years is only if you get the RRoD)

[BlackPete]

For anyone looking for a bit more info on this, Patrick Klepek over at 1UP interviewed Peter Moore today:

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160818


This is awesome:


1UP: Not too long ago, in an interview with Mike Antonucci, you famously responded to question about the breaking 360s with "Ya know, things break." Do you regret saying that now?

PM: Well, no, things do break, don't they? I think we just proved that. [audible pause]

[Zacharai]

I wonder where EvAv get's this rep of Xbox bias.
Oh please, EvAv has a well-deserved reputation of 360 bias. I'm guilty of this as well, so far. The only generally reasonable pro-PS3 voice here is Gorki.

While there are always people who stick by their consoles no matter what, for the most part this bias is rational. When (crossing fingers for competition) the PS3 becomes great, I think you'll see a lot more give-and-take on the forums.

I would love to be proven wrong. Well, I'd like it, in the way that I'd like to have sex with Claire Danes. It'll take some money, but the experience would be worthwhile.

[bitwise]

Good. Bravo. Thank you.

[Shodan2020]

I didn't have a chance to read through the whole thread, I will later tonight when I have more free time.

But for those of you that have had issues in the past what was the method that you got your return? Did you need your orginal recepit? Did you just need to state when your model was manufactured?

My problem is I just started getting the three red lights but during the move the recepit that I got with the system when I bought it 12/05 has been lost. Should I attempt to hope that Target has records that far back? Or will it not be a problem when I tell them when the system was manufactured?

this has probably been answered a million times already, but I just talked to Microsoft today about my borked DVD-ROM and all the guy needed was the serial number on the back of my 360 and he asked me when I purchased it.

that's it. The serial will tell Microsoft when it was manufactured, i don't think they care where you bought it from.

[Shodan2020]

I think seeing threads by Satan asking for refunds for "lost play time" on consoles is sorta funny. Sure, sure, you eat the souls of children, but Microsoft has to compensate you for your lost play time?!?!? That really is funny. Unless you aren't who you say you are, but why should they warranty liars?!?! Liars I say!



I totally Loled. Who knew that's what Satan's weakness was? Impervious to all but holy incantations...and lost play time! Can you just see it now? He's playing Halo 2 on his 360 calling someone a "noob faggot" from a sniping spot and all of a sudden his 360 red rings. Minutes pass as his play time runs out.. a single tear forms... :D

[Shodan2020]

Sorry if this has already been asked. Does this mean that I have a 5 year warranty now after purchasing the 2 year extended warranty for my Elite...?

No, it means you have an extra year on your 2 year warranty. The three years start as soon as you purchase your 360. And it is retroactive.

[Shodan2020]

It's only your DVD drive? Then no 3 year warranty for you. Not yours.

(3 years is only if you get the RRoD)

Yeah, but I'm still totally covered under the 1 year "if anything breaks" warranty. Bought my 360 this past March. :D

[Mashidar]

this has probably been answered a million times already, but I just talked to Microsoft today about my borked DVD-ROM and all the guy needed was the serial number on the back of my 360 and he asked me when I purchased it.

that's it. The serial will tell Microsoft when it was manufactured, i don't think they care where you bought it from.

Ah thanks, it might of been answered somewhere either on EvAv or the internets but now I got my answer from this thread. :D

[Durka-Dan]

awesome. so instead of "fixing the glitch" they just threw a warranty at us.

[Micasa]

His case is actually pretty curious to me -- he's stated that he's already gotten rid of his 360. I think that probably means he's SOL? Or if MS will simply refund the money regardless of whether he has it or not.

I imagine that they'll ask him if he still has the serial number of his 360 or ref # of his repairs, and if he doesn't have those...

I really doubt the automated refund system is going to call him and ask for his serial number. They have your address, they'll send a cheque there. If you don't live there anymore...I guess they'll figure that's not their fault.

[Micasa]

awesome. so instead of "fixing the glitch" they just threw a warranty at us.

As well as "fixing the glitch" - if you read the letter. Didn't bother? I know, it's got a lot of letters and such. Maybe get someone to read it to you later.

[Durka-Dan]

As well as "fixing the glitch" - if you read the letter. Didn't bother? I know, it's got a lot of letters and such. Maybe get someone to read it to you later.

To tell you the truth, I didn't read it. Maybe it's because I doubt Microsoft really fixed anything. Perhaps they changed the LED light colors so the Red ring of death is no more, replaced by a more "hip" Green ring of Death since red was throwing off their color scheme.

[Shodan2020]

To tell you the truth, I didn't read it. Maybe it's because I doubt Microsoft really fixed anything. Perhaps they changed the LED light colors so the Red ring of death is no more, replaced by a more "hip" Green ring of Death since red was throwing off their color scheme.

Shhhh.... not so loud... your smacktardiness is showing.

[Krispy]

To tell you the truth, I didn't read it. Maybe it's because I doubt Microsoft really fixed anything. Perhaps they changed the LED light colors so the Red ring of death is no more, replaced by a more "hip" Green ring of Death since red was throwing off their color scheme.

I suppose the new heat sinks have nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:

[DangerousDaze]

I love coming into a thread and seeing people instruct the prince of darkness on how to use Internet forums.
No, that's Ozymandias, not Ozzy Osbourne. :p

[Gorvi]

It's good to see MS support their oft-breaking console. And as others have said (I've seen a few, no way I'm reading nearly 190 posts), this is being given a huge PR spin by MS to try to make themselves look like such great people. Be realistic, guys, it's to avoid legal action plain and simple. There are reports that this warranty extension alone is going to cost them $1 billion. Yes, with a B. There goes the XBOX division being profitable, huh?

[Ancalagon]

To tell you the truth, I didn't read it. Maybe it's because I doubt Microsoft really fixed anything. Perhaps they changed the LED light colors so the Red ring of death is no more, replaced by a more "hip" Green ring of Death since red was throwing off their color scheme.

He he - we fixed the red ring of death problem. its now the green ring of death.

[alkeygs01]

It's good to see MS support their oft-breaking console. And as others have said (I've seen a few, no way I'm reading nearly 190 posts), this is being given a huge PR spin by MS to try to make themselves look like such great people. Be realistic, guys, it's to avoid legal action plain and simple. There are reports that this warranty extension alone is going to cost them $1 billion. Yes, with a B. There goes the XBOX division being profitable, huh?

wow...just...wow.....

[Gorvi]

wow...just...wow.....
Care to elaborate? I hate to be the voice of reality here and break through the warm and fuzzies, but this isn't being done because Microsoft loves us so much. They know they could have serious legal problems from a class action law suit, and they're taking the path that they believe will cost them less. It's business, plain and simple. This also has the benefit of being percieved as good PR, so it's a win/win for them with the current state of their hardware reliability.

[bapenguin]

It's good to see MS support their oft-breaking console. And as others have said (I've seen a few, no way I'm reading nearly 190 posts), this is being given a huge PR spin by MS to try to make themselves look like such great people. Be realistic, guys, it's to avoid legal action plain and simple. There are reports that this warranty extension alone is going to cost them $1 billion. Yes, with a B. There goes the XBOX division being profitable, huh?

There's no reason there still can't be legal action. It's just the grounds for it that would need to be defined.

From what I hear this was a very strategic move. It actually happened a few days ago, thereby being written off in Fiscal 07. Now, they can easily claim profitability in Fiscal 08 because they won't have a 1 billion dollar write-off looming over their heads.

[Gorvi]

There's no reason there still can't be legal action. It's just the grounds for it that would need to be defined.

From what I hear this was a very strategic move. It actually happened a few days ago, thereby being written off in Fiscal 07. Now, they can easily claim profitability in Fiscal 08 because they won't have a 1 billion dollar write-off looming over their heads.
Oh, there still could be, but this shows that they're doing something about the problem, which would go a long way to making up their defense.

As far as being profitable in fiscal '08, that would be without a price drop. They really can't afford to drop the price and stay profitable.

[JCtheMC]

I think MS response is great for their customers (and if you're paying 400 bucks for a machine, you deserve it), but let's be frank; This is not solving a problem, this is buying a rug to sweep it under. Why would anyone buy a poor-designed machine (and i'm speaking in terms of how long it will perform it's function adequately, not how good it functions in comparison to other consoles) even if it has an extended warranty?

[bean19]

As far as being profitable in fiscal '08, that would be without a price drop. They really can't afford to drop the price and stay profitable.

Sure they can. That's what he was saying, they took the loss in this quarter on purpose so that they don't have to take it in future ones. Even if 25% of the ~15 million (really somewhere between 13-15 million, but using the higher number here to illustrate my point) consoles sold so far broke, if the cost of fixing them is around $100 with shipping, that's "only" $225 million dollars to have them fixed. Even with other repairs and repeat repairs or a higher repair rate, I can't see more than $300 million being used on repairs of currently sold systems. That means that the billion is being set aside for future repairs or that it is part of the cost of fixing the problem permanently.

In any case, they can't afford NOT to do a price-drop. The Wii is kicking ass because it is in a price bracket that the casual gamer/parent is willing to pay. They sold 10 million units in the first year that the system was out but have only sold around ~3-5 million so far in '07. That's not exactly anemic considering that the bulk of sales occur in the Fall/Winter, but it definitely shows a saturation of the current market.

If they don't want to let the Wii take away their lead in the console war, then they HAVE to lower the console's price. They'll make their profit on game sales and downloadable content.

[Gorvi]

Sure they can. That's what he was saying, they took the loss in this quarter on purpose so that they don't have to take it in future ones. Even if 25% of the ~15 million (really somewhere between 13-15 million, but using the higher number here to illustrate my point) consoles sold so far broke, if the cost of fixing them is around $100 with shipping, that's "only" $225 million dollars to have them fixed. Even with other repairs and repeat repairs or a higher repair rate, I can't see more than $300 million being used on repairs of currently sold systems. That means that the billion is being set aside for future repairs or that it is part of the cost of fixing the problem permanently.

In any case, they can't afford NOT to do a price-drop. The Wii is kicking ass because it is in a price bracket that the casual gamer/parent is willing to pay. They sold 10 million units in the first year that the system was out but have only sold around ~3-5 million so far in '07. That's not exactly anemic considering that the bulk of sales occur in the Fall/Winter, but it definitely shows a saturation of the current market.

If they don't want to let the Wii take away their lead in the console war, then they HAVE to lower the console's price. They'll make their profit on game sales and downloadable content.
You do know that MS just cut their worldwide shipped numbers ( http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32406) as of June 30th to 11.6 million, right? That 13-15 million isn't even close.

[Kefkataran]

This is awesome:

Ha, I'd just e-mailed the link to a friend posting that as my favorite part of the interview. :p

No, it means you have an extra year on your 2 year warranty. The three years start as soon as you purchase your 360. And it is retroactive.

What's funny about this is that Peter Moore couldn't really answer the question when asked in Patrick's 1UP interview. I'm sure the guy just doesn't know all the ups and downs of this stuff, but it makes me wonder if MS didn't think about it too much.


From what I hear this was a very strategic move. It actually happened a few days ago, thereby being written off in Fiscal 07. Now, they can easily claim profitability in Fiscal 08 because they won't have a 1 billion dollar write-off looming over their heads.

Whoa. If that's true, that's pretty brilliant. In a business sense.

[Telefrog]

My favorite part of the 1up article (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160818) is that the picture they used is the full red ring with four lights indicating a problem with the power supply - an issue, by the way, not covered under this announcement.

[Kefkataran]

My favorite part of the 1up article (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3160818) is that the picture they used is the full red ring with four lights indicating a problem with the power supply - an issue, by the way, not covered under this announcement.

Ha, pretty sure it's just our stock "red rings" picture. Amusing point, though.

[Crenor]

Lets do the math. 1.01-1.15 Billiion at even the basic $150 to fix each unit (that is what they were charging to get your XBox fixed and shipped)
So that is 6.7-7.6 Million units that are going to fail or have failed.
That is a HELL of a lot more than 10%.

[drakkarim]

Lets do the math. 1.01-1.15 Billiion at even the basic $150 to fix each unit (that is what they were charging to get your XBox fixed and shipped)

last time i checked, the price charged is usually more then the actual cost, and knowing microsoft, its going to be much more then the actual cost.

repair is a business, not merely something they 'have to do to keep people happy'.

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

Lets do the math. 1.01-1.15 Billiion at even the basic $150 to fix each unit (that is what they were charging to get your XBox fixed and shipped)
So that is 6.7-7.6 Million units that are going to fail or have failed.
That is a HELL of a lot more than 10%.
For the next 3 years ...

[TheFlyingOrc]

For the next 3 years ...
And that's what they set aside just in case - they could have overshot somewhat.

[Shodan2020]

Lets do the math. 1.01-1.15 Billiion at even the basic $150 to fix each unit (that is what they were charging to get your XBox fixed and shipped)
So that is 6.7-7.6 Million units that are going to fail or have failed.
That is a HELL of a lot more than 10%.

The cost of repairs isn't something you'd want to underestimate, nor is it something you can peg exactly right. I'd suggest that Microsoft set a billion aside just in case the numbers are way more than they estimate. I sincerely doubt the numbers are that high, but if they are, they are prepared to fix them with all that cash set aside.

[Micasa]

wow...just...wow.....

Really?

"Now Playing:
PS3 : Oblivion
PS2 : Final Fantasy XI [57 BST;75 BLM]
PSP : GTA : Vice City Stories
NDS : Chocobo Tales
GBA : ----
PS3 Network ID : Gorvi"

You'd almost expect it, wouldn't you?

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

The cost of repairs isn't something you'd want to underestimate, nor is it something you can peg exactly right. I'd suggest that Microsoft set a billion aside just in case the numbers are way more than they estimate. I sincerely doubt the numbers are that high, but if they are, they are prepared to fix them with all that cash set aside.
Not only that, but they took the hit "last year" which ended June 30. So, does that mean they have no warranty costs for the 2008 fiscal year, or 2009? Sure, last year might have very poor numbers right now but this new fiscal year is suddenly feeling very light for overhead.

If I understand it correctly, they took a massive hit in a past fiscal year and turned it into a marketing device for the current year. It feels a bit like they took their lumps in the past. haha, smart move then since the window of pain is pretty small.

[cp#]

I'd like to know if every console coming back has the updated beefy cooler.

[DaXIthR]

Care to elaborate? I hate to be the voice of reality here and break through the warm and fuzzies, but this isn't being done because Microsoft loves us so much. They know they could have serious legal problems from a class action law suit, and they're taking the path that they believe will cost them less. It's business, plain and simple. This also has the benefit of being percieved as good PR, so it's a win/win for them with the current state of their hardware reliability.

Agreed.

As I said earlier, MS is basically admitting they don't know how to fix their shoddy hardware or feel this billion dollar expense is actually a cheaper alternative.

That's not good customer service.

No consumer electronics product should need a warranty longer than 12 months. In some ways, this is more worrying because it shows that MS has no 36 month plan in place to fix their hardware faults.

[RichardTowler]

I feel even more screwed by this announcement, i have a launch unit console and it broke out of warrenty, so i had no other choice but to pay microsoft the £85 they wanted or attempt to look at it myself. So i took the later option, opening the console knowing it was out of warrenty and it didn't matter. So now it does matter and this is why i feel screwed.

Microsoft first announce the launch unit consoles will get free repairs so i'm sat there believing microsoft actually where there if i needed the console repaired, they then take this announcement and throw it in the bin 3 months later without telling anyone. Than my fails outside of warrenty, which i only found out when i spoke to microsoft support, i'm told they won't repair it for free, instead i'd have to pay £85 so i attempt to fix it myself. They than announce a 3 year extended warrenty which now means shit to me.

Its too little too late, i feel like i've bent over and taken it over and over and i can't say my behind is too pleased about it. Its a real shame, i love the games and xbox live and now i'm left without any and a rather exspensive rather yet useless paper wieght.

[fitbabits]

I feel even more screwed by this announcement, i have a launch unit console and it broke out of warrenty, so i had no other choice but to pay microsoft the £85 they wanted or attempt to look at it myself. So i took the later option, opening the console knowing it was out of warrenty and it didn't matter. So now it does matter and this is why i feel screwed.

Microsoft first announce the launch unit consoles will get free repairs so i'm sat there believing microsoft actually where there if i needed the console repaired, they then take this announcement and throw it in the bin 3 months later without telling anyone. Than my fails outside of warrenty, which i only found out when i spoke to microsoft support, i'm told they won't repair it for free, instead i'd have to pay £85 so i attempt to fix it myself. They than announce a 3 year extended warrenty which now means shit to me.

Its too little too late, i feel like i've bent over and taken it over and over and i can't say my behind is too pleased about it. Its a real shame, i love the games and xbox live and now i'm left without any and a rather exspensive rather yet useless paper wieght.
Um, you know that you'll be reimbursed, right? I mean, that's the whole point of this.

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

Um, you know that you'll be reimbursed, right? I mean, that's the whole point of this.
I think he is saying he didn't pay MS to fix it and instead opened the console up to try to fix it himself. Now is warranty is invalid.

I also think he has a point, I would probably have done the same. I would also give MS a call and explain it to see what their policy is, since the warranty extensions themselves can cause confusion and they do see to want to make things right.

[RichardTowler]

no, what i'm saying is i checked the console out myself as i couldn't afford the £85 repair. I had no warrenty to void at the time, so i had nothing to lose by doing so as i'd have a dud console either way. But now, a couple of months later it turns out i wouldnt. I just feel short changed, not only by the reversal of the launch unit free repair, but by this extended warrenty as its too little, too late for me.

[fitbabits]

I think he is saying he didn't pay MS to fix it and instead opened the console up to try to fix it himself. Now is warranty is invalid.

I also think he has a point, I would probably have done the same. I would also give MS a call and explain it to see what their policy is, since the warranty extensions themselves can cause confusion and they do see to want to make things right.
Then he's screwed, sadly. My momma always told me that patience was a virtue. :o

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

Then he's screwed, sadly. My momma always told me that patience was a virtue. :o
Yes, probably. When he opened it up there was no warranty to void. Then the warranty was extended, which changed what he did. At the same time, he is responsible for opening it up and voiding the warranty.

But MS seems to want to set things right, and if they had put the extended warranty into place immediately he probably would have taken them up on free shipping and repair. Since they have an on-again-off-again thing going with the policy for some people who are falling between the cracks, I would call Microsoft and explain the situation. Maybe there is some middle ground that both can find acceptable.

[RichardTowler]

Then he's screwed, sadly. My momma always told me that patience was a virtue. :o

Well i'm no good at looking into the future it seems, I had no idea that Microsoft were going to extend the warrenty in 2/3 months after mine failed. I certainly wasn't going to sit there for however long, and hope that by chance a way was going to appear to make it work again. I think thats a rather silly arguement trying to swing the balance back to Microsoft.

This has come about as Microsoft have made a console that suffers an awful failure rate and have been in half arsed denial about it since the launch, my brother is on his 3rd console and half of my friends that own 360's have had to send them in for repair or get replacements. Thats not right, no matter which way you can spin it or not having that many units fail doesn't mean great things.

Sure Microsoft announcing this is a great thing for people that have payed for repairs, or are currently playing the 360 in fear it might fail and they'd be screwed. I know that my brother is now happy about this as he's covered for another 2 years, but it doesn't change the fact that Microsoft have a problem with the 360.

As i said, the main problem with me is the way Microsoft dealt with the original failures. Having bought a launch unit, i felt safe after Microsoft announced the free repair, only to be told when mine failed they had withdrawn that offer and i was left with a dud console that i couldn't afford to repair.

I feel let down, i'm just giving you my feelings my personal experience and how the situation has effected me. I'm a huge fan of the xbox in general and have been since the original xbox launched, but as i said this latest announcement has only made me feel more screwed over that i invested early in a faulty console and the company behind it took no responsiblity for it until it was too late 'for me'. I guess i feel more pissed off, as i do love the console 'when it works', xbox live, its fucking awesome, apart from the failure rates and thats why it hurts more.

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

I feel let down, i'm just giving you my feelings my personal experience and how the situation has effected me. I'm a huge fan of the xbox in general and have been since the original xbox launched, but as i said this latest announcement has only made me feel more screwed over that i invested early in a faulty console and the company behind it took no responsiblity for it until it was too late 'for me'. I guess i feel more pissed off, as i do love the console 'when it works', xbox live, its fucking awesome, apart from the failure rates and thats why it hurts more.
Yes, but on the other hand Microsoft also has to deal with people who tamper with the electronics in order to cheat online. When they do that, they open the box and make changes. Your actions open you up as a suspect for that as well.

I have no idea how set MS is on warranty seal breaks. There is an argument for your side of the story, but there is also a group of people who open consoles to cheat.

There probably would be a reasonable solution to the issue, if it weren't for the modders.

[Kefkataran]

Then he's screwed, sadly. My momma always told me that patience was a virtue. :o

He was supposed to sit around waiting for a warranty upgrade that by all normal assumption probably was never going to come? That's odd.

[fitbabits]

He was supposed to sit around waiting for a warranty upgrade that by all normal assumption probably was never going to come? That's odd.
Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I meant. :rolleyes:

[Kefkataran]

Yeah, that's EXACTLY what I meant. :rolleyes:

... Okay. That was the implication in saying "He should have been patient" unless I read it incorrectly. In which case you could correct me by saying what you meant instead of being oh-so-sarcastic.

[fitbabits]

... Okay. That was the implication in saying "He should have been patient" unless I read it incorrectly. In which case you could correct me by saying what you meant instead of being oh-so-sarcastic.
Humor - noun - an instance of being or attempting to be comical or amusing.

Sarcasm - noun - a form of irony in which apparent praise conceals another meaning.

:)

[Kefkataran]

Humor - noun - an instance of being or attempting to be comical or amusing.

Sarcasm - noun - a form of irony in which apparent praise conceals another meaning.

:)

Actually, the definition of sarcasm is "harsh or bitter derision or irony." Minor difference, but important.

[fitbabits]

Actually, the definition of sarcasm is "harsh or bitter derision or irony." Minor difference, but important.
There are many differing definitions of almost every word in the dictionary. One simply chooses whichever definition fits the point of view one is trying to convey. Which is what I cunningly did, as did you.

Minor difference, but an important one.

Again, :)

[Kefkataran]

Gah, what the fuck ever. If you want to be that way, go ahead.

[fitbabits]

Gah, what the fuck ever. If you want to be that way, go ahead.
You're kinda uptight there, buddy. The comment you originally replied to was obviously me being a sarcastic fool (and making fun of myself)! :confused:

[Spigot]

Get a room you two...

[Noypi01]

My 360 is currently in its unmarked white box on its way to Texas for red ring of death repair. What's MS's stance on warranty after repair? Will I still have the rest of the 3 years from my purchase date in case it dies again?

yup the warranty for the three red lights will be covered for three years from the date of purchase... other than the three reds, your xbox360 is covered by 1 year from the date of purchase...

if it's still in the normal warranty then you might consider purchasing the service contract which extends the warranty beyond the normal one for 24.95 per year... you may call tech support for this... still better than paying for 99.00 if it goes out of warranty (it's nice that the price dropped from 139.90) but its your call ;)

[Tinderbox]

I'm not sure if it's funny or sad considering the timing, but 3 red lights just said hello to me.

/I do have my original Best Buy 2 year warranty so I'll probably wait till E3 to see if the price drops.

[Tinderbox]

Ok, I cannot fucking believe that the stupid towel trick works. WTF?? And who the hell discovers these kinds of things?

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

Ok, I cannot fucking believe that the stupid towel trick works. WTF?? And who the hell discovers these kinds of things?
Towels are very useful. You never know when you might accidentally be beamed up to a Vogon spaceship while it's building it's hyperspace bypass. It's a sign of prestige, and good mental health; hence the old saying "He is a man who really knows where his towel is at".

That you can also fix broken electronic gear with it is intuitively obvious. :D

[Tinderbox]

Towels are very useful. You never know when you might accidentally be beamed up to a Vogon spaceship while it's building it's hyperspace bypass. It's a sign of prestige, and good mental health; hence the old saying "He is a man who really knows where his towel is at".

That you can also fix broken electronic gear with it is intuitively obvious. :D

Ok, that was funny, though I'm sure being on Percocet after oral surgery probably helps. Makes me want to watch the movie again.

/Towel fix is quite temporary, console is still acting like a bitch.

[Kefkataran]

Tinder, I'd consider yourself lucky. At least it broke now when MS seems to have a solid fix so you shouldn't have to worry about it breaking again, hopefully.