Next Gen Feature: Nintendo's Winning Ways

[DaXIthR]

A fairly interesting read from Edge Magazine (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6123&Itemid=2), courtesy of Next Generation (http://www.next-gen.biz). It derives Nintendo's unstated philosophy by observing the company's behavior since World War II.

The real Nintendo hallmark has never been the Seal Of Quality, or Mario’s moustache, or Miyamoto’s cheesy grin: ever since the launch of the NES it’s been the yen.

But there’s another trend that’s been consistent throughout Nintendo’s videogame career, and it’s one that goes in the opposite direction. After the 60 million-seller smash hit of the NES, Nintendo hardware sales have shrunk generation on generation: the SNES down to just shy of 50 million, the N64 to just over 30 million, and the GameCube only just topping 20 million.

The glaring weakness in this article comes from how it glosses over the GameCube. The Wii, as great a departure as it is, is very clearly related to the GameCube. The philosophy that is working for the Wii is largely the same one that failed for the GC, implemented in slightly different ways. The purple lunchbox compared with something that looks NES-like.

The GC is the 'other DreamCast' of the last generation.

[Tyler Durden84]

im not sure about whatever number of units the Wii has sold so far, but its definitely doing well. i hope that people realize that Nintendo has always put out great systems and games since the release of the NES. Im a diehard Nintendo fan. i buy every one of their systems. not to sound like a rabid fanboy, but im tired of seeing all these people come flocking back to Nintendo because of the Wii, when the GC had great games but was floundering during its life. I have more memorable moments from my GC than my Xbox and i have way more fun with my GC than my constantly dying PS2.

actually, i think my PS2 and my original NES have something in common. You have to use little tricks to get them to work everytime you want to play a game on them. but i have more fond memories of putting a NES cart in, stuff another cart on top of it, and then stick a penny in between the lid and the top cart, then i do with just beating my PS2 for everytime i want it to work.

[Baron Samedi]

i buy every one of their systems. not to sound like a rabid fanboy, but im tired of seeing all these people come flocking back to Nintendo because of the Wii, when the GC had great games but was floundering during its life. I have more memorable moments from my GC than my Xbox and i have way more fun with my GC than my constantly dying PS2.

Amen. What bothers me, though, is the rise of the *** fanboy. Whatever happened to good ol' hate on Microsoft? Five years ago everybody hated Microsoft. Man oh man have they PR'd us good.

[Varsity]

I'd like to hear more about the philosophy that is working for the Wii being largely the same one that failed for the Gamecube.

[Gorvi]

The Wii is succeeding for 2 reasons alone : It's the cheapest console by far this "gen" and it does something completely different. The Gamecube did neither.

[Lothair]

I'd like to hear more about the philosophy that is working for the Wii being largely the same one that failed for the Gamecube.

I think the logic that he's using is that the gamecube also provided ways to play games weren't bound by controllers, such as using the GBA link cables in Four Swords or Crystal Chronicles. I'd disagree with him, though, as the difference between the Wii and the GC is that in the GC they hedged their bets and made the machine a traditional gaming machine with the new input methods and styles as an add-on. And so, like every other add-on, it only appealed to a niche audience. With the Wii, they put all their chips on the table and made the novelty the centerpiece of the machine. So it's a bit of a bad analogy to say that the strategy is the same.

Similarly, I think that the Dreamcast was the only Dreamcast of last generation, as it's the only one that crashed and burned. The GC never reached the success of the PS2 or even Xbox, but it did last the entire generation and put out a solid (if not amazingly large) lineup of good games.

[benig]

The GC is the 'other DreamCast' of the last generation.[/i]What. Your entire tagline is garbage. That makes it hard to actually get what this article is actually about.

[Tyler Durden84]

What. Your entire tagline is garbage. That makes it hard to actually get what this article is actually about.

its just stating that the Gamecube did the same as the Dreamcast. They both had great games from 1st party devs, and some 3rd party. but both suffering from the support from 3rd party devs. not to say that either system sucked, because they didnt, 3rd party guys werent helping either system.

at first, both did pretty well, due to great launch titles, but then the strength waivered.

i just hope that this doesnt happen to the Wii. with so many nongamers buying it because its getting ad time on whatever stupid, neanderthal show they watch, i.e. MTV or whatever, then they realize that they dont like games or want to play them, thus causing NPDs to fall and lack of support follows suit. we all know that the Wii has capabilties to make some awesome games. and the VC is bringing up the rear with great classic games, although until they finally release Earthbound on the VC, it will be godly.

[Serapth]

Amen. What bothers me, though, is the rise of the *** fanboy. Whatever happened to good ol' hate on Microsoft? Five years ago everybody hated Microsoft. Man oh man have they PR'd us good.


Use of *** in an internet post:

IQ = IQ - 12;

[Bravado]

Use of *** in an internet post:

IQ = IQ - 12;

That's a win right there.

[silv]

Amen. What bothers me, though, is the rise of the *** fanboy. Whatever happened to good ol' hate on Microsoft? Five years ago everybody hated Microsoft. Man oh man have they PR'd us good.

Man oh man, the 360 has the best games.

[Jaunty]

Amen. What bothers me, though, is the rise of the *** fanboy. Whatever happened to good ol' hate on Microsoft? Five years ago everybody hated Microsoft. Man oh man have they PR'd us good.

What happened they started releasing actual games. On the original XBox they didn't have a single game that made the system worth buying, but now that a great many more third-party developers are on board and especially with the advent of Live and the Marketplace it doesn't take eyes to see that they should be considered as a contender. I will agree with you, though, in that I just can't comprehend the fanaticism despite ridiculous failure rate of their new system.

[Baron Samedi]

Use of *** in an internet post:

IQ = IQ - 12;

IQ -= ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, ***, *** = 12*30 = 360

According to Dr. Kawashima that means I have the brain weight of an Amoeba. That should be enough cycles to play Gears of Whores. ;)

[Jaunty]

Use of *** in an internet post:

IQ = IQ - 12;

Wouldn't
IQ -= 12;
Be better...

Edit: Ah, damn, beaten. Anyways, Kalaquinn, anti-brand fanaticism is just as stressing as pro-brand. You really don't have to insult a guy for liking a game.

[Serapth]

Wouldn't
IQ -= 12;
Be better...


Didnt want to be a C language snob. Figured I wouldl keep it to a dialog that wasnt C derived.

Guess the semi colon kinda blew that away though, didnt it?

[easi]

The Wii approach is nothing like the GC. Next-Gen as usual only want to propagate negative spin on Nintendo.

[Serapth]

The Wii approach is nothing like the GC. Next-Gen as usual only want to propagate negative spin on Nintendo.


Are we ignoring the fact the Wii *IS* a Gamecube?

[Ancalagon]

Despite having already sold more than 17 million DSes

What? its hitting 40 million worldwide.

[Gorvi]

Are we ignoring the fact the Wii *IS* a Gamecube?
No, it's not. It's two Gamecubes, with some duct tape to hold them together. ;)

[Jaunty]

Are we ignoring the fact the Wii *IS* a Gamecube?
Ohhh snap!

Well, I guess even though the hardware is the same the underlying philosophy behind its release could have changed.
Something like how back in the day kids wore Care Bears T-shirts out of genuine adoration for the Care Bears, but now hipsters wear them for irony.

[Serapth]

No, it's not. It's two Gamecubes, with some duct tape to hold them together. ;)
http://www.archinofsky.com/stuff/may/20x10_winner_is_you_web.jpg

[oldjadedgamer]

The reason the hardware numbers for all the systems have declined after the NES is easy. Competition. The NES held about 95% of the market at it's height.

[DaXIthR]

What? its hitting 40 million worldwide.

Yes, the article was a little unclear, but context reveals the 17M units sold figure speaks to volume in Japan alone.

[Ancalagon]

Nintendo still won’t dominate, as the new market will simply be too big and too diverse for one company to control.

Sony didnt find it too hard to dominate with the PS1 and 2. I know people will say "But its different now! there are now MS, Sony and Nintendo". Well there used to be Sega and Nintendo, they were huge. Then Sony came along, and sega went out of business.

[Bydo_Empire]

Wouldn't
IQ -= 12;
Be better...
Actually it wouldn't, because the compiler will almost certainly turn it into exactly the same thing. ;) Not that I don't like that notation, but there's no technical reason to use one over the other. It's just a style and readability thing.

[Baron Samedi]

Sony didnt find it too hard to dominate with the PS1 and 2. I know people will say "But its different now! there are now MS, Sony and Nintendo". Well there used to be Sega and Nintendo, they were huge. Then Sony came along, and sega went out of business.

The market shrunk after NES. The market today is much bigger than it was during the PS era. Both PS and PS2 certainly helped grow the market, with some props going to Microsoft, no doubt. In many ways PS3 reminds me of N64, where Nintendo bet all their marbles on advanced tech (64 was a much bigger beast than PS by a large margin, but notice how the more economical PS kicked its ass) and expensive propriety format (cartridge). Today, similar scenario: the PS3 teraflop beast and expensive Blu-Ray.

The other thing I don't get is why some many hate on Wii and PS3 for having few games so far. 360 had almost nothing the first year. Indeed, for the past three console generations, the launch year is an utter wasteland for content. After this Xmas season, if Wii and PS3 no longer have content, than you can point the finger of scorn. Until then, shut yer damn, forgetful, hypocritical yapper.

[easi]

inane played-out fanboy remark
stupid, unfunny irrelevant oversized image

Thanks for shitting up the thread with jokes that weren't funny a year ago.

[Gorvi]

Thanks for shitting up the thread with jokes that weren't funny a year ago.
Well, my joke wouldn't have been funny a year ago, since the duct tape comment wasn't made until GDC earlier this year. :p

[RMan]

The Wii is succeeding for 2 reasons alone : It's the cheapest console by far this "gen" and it does something completely different. The Gamecube did neither.
As stated before, the Wii is not cheap, it’s $50 more than it’s predecessor, it’s price is not, at least currently, contributing to it’s success significantly (assuming that by putting it before it’s primary draw means you place high significance on relative price). The core gamers that have bought it likely would and often have paid more (mine cost well over $300) and the new audience wouldn’t generally see $250 as cheap nor would it’s price relative to other products be considered (they’re not shopping for a game system, since they’re not gamers, they’re just buying a Wii). I’d say the low cost/price philosophy of the Gamecube definitely carried over to the Wii, but it’s playing an almost non-existent role in it’s success, thankfully it was only a small part of a much larger, much smarter overall strategy.

The only thing really nice about the Gamecube was it’s price/cost, and it was a mistake on Nintendo’s part to think that would matter much to consumers. Since it didn’t seem to matter for the GC, let’s stop pretending that at $50 more it’s somehow doing wonders for the Wii. The Wii is succeeding because of what it is, not because of what it costs (same is true for GC’s failure). Heck, I’d put their advertising and placement way ahead of the price, they’ve done a great job there too.

[Kamalot]

Amen. What bothers me, though, is the rise of the *** fanboy. Whatever happened to good ol' hate on Microsoft? Five years ago everybody hated Microsoft. Man oh man have they PR'd us good.
I'll tell you what Microsoft did to convert me into a fan, they built a system focused on games, and then convinced developers to make kick-ass games for it. The original Xbox was a sloppy mess of a console, a bunch of off-the-shelf parts and a cumbersome controller all slapped in a huge ugly box. The 360 is tight, integrated, streamlined and really next-gen.

I have so much fun on the 360 that it astonishes me that it only took Microsoft a single generation to 'get it' so right.

[TheStranger]

What a terrible article.

Oh, and I hate how that site has them little snippets from the article at the side. It seems like an inflated ego on the part of those who use it.

I remember there was an article ripping at Eternal Sonata sometime back.. It started out saying how reviews said it was brilliant, but then some fool who hadn't played it wanted to rip it on the premise of the game.

[DaXIthR]

As stated before, the Wii is not cheap, it’s $50 more than it’s predecessor, it’s price is not, at least currently, contributing to it’s success significantly (assuming that by putting it before it’s primary draw means you place high significance on relative price). The core gamers that have bought it likely would and often have paid more (mine cost well over $300) and the new audience wouldn’t generally see $250 as cheap nor would it’s price relative to other products be considered (they’re not shopping for a game system, since they’re not gamers, they’re just buying a Wii). I’d say the low cost/price philosophy of the Gamecube definitely carried over to the Wii, but it’s playing an almost non-existent role in it’s success, thankfully it was only a small part of a much larger, much smarter overall strategy.

The only thing really nice about the Gamecube was it’s price/cost, and it was a mistake on Nintendo’s part to think that would matter much to consumers. Since it didn’t seem to matter for the GC, let’s stop pretending that at $50 more it’s somehow doing wonders for the Wii. The Wii is succeeding because of what it is, not because of what it costs (same is true for GC’s failure). Heck, I’d put their advertising and placement way ahead of the price, they’ve done a great job there too.

Thank you. That right there is a quality post.

Speaking to the article, the idea of creating another "family computer" or "entertainment system" was alive with the GameCube, in my opinion. That's why it was purple; they didn't want it to look like a piece of very sophisticated technology. They gave it a handle so it could move around the house from parents' bedrooms to kids' rooms to the living room.

The reason for the colorful controller and the massive A-button is the same.

My point is this: If you were show me the PS2, Xbox and GC in a vacuum, and then show me the Wii, and asked me which system the Wii plays successor to, the answer is pretty frickin' obvious....to me.

[Gorvi]

As stated before, the Wii is not cheap, it’s $50 more than it’s predecessor, it’s price is not, at least currently, contributing to it’s success significantly (assuming that by putting it before it’s primary draw means you place high significance on relative price). The core gamers that have bought it likely would and often have paid more (mine cost well over $300) and the new audience wouldn’t generally see $250 as cheap nor would it’s price relative to other products be considered (they’re not shopping for a game system, since they’re not gamers, they’re just buying a Wii). I’d say the low cost/price philosophy of the Gamecube definitely carried over to the Wii, but it’s playing an almost non-existent role in it’s success, thankfully it was only a small part of a much larger, much smarter overall strategy.

The only thing really nice about the Gamecube was it’s price/cost, and it was a mistake on Nintendo’s part to think that would matter much to consumers. Since it didn’t seem to matter for the GC, let’s stop pretending that at $50 more it’s somehow doing wonders for the Wii. The Wii is succeeding because of what it is, not because of what it costs (same is true for GC’s failure). Heck, I’d put their advertising and placement way ahead of the price, they’ve done a great job there too.
I wasn't trying to say that the Wii is cheap, but it's cheapest out of the new hardware. If the Wii was $300-$400 retail, there's no way it would be enjoying the success it's having now. I'll stand by my previous statement : The Wii is a success due largely in part to it's price point being significantly less than the competition and the fact that it's doing something that we haven't seen from a console before. To pretend that the price point is not a factor is ignoring one of the most important things to consumers.

[RMan]

I wasn't trying to say that the Wii is cheap, but it's cheapest out of the new hardware.
Again, if comparison shopping was important to gamers (much less the non-traditional gamers buying the system) then the GC wouldn’t have been in last place. The value of the system is not being rated against it’s competition by consumers, you can believe it is if you like, but I think it clearly isn’t.
If the Wii was $300-$400 retail, there's no way it would be enjoying the success it's having now.
Hehe, you go on thinking a $50 price difference would make a big difference, it’s something you can never support so it’s convenient, but it just sounds silly to me (of course, what would be more applicable is asking if the 360/PS3 was $250 if the Wii would still be as successful, I say yes). Heck, when they announced their pricepoint it was outrageously expensive, now it's cheap, how times change :).
To pretend that the price point is not a factor is ignoring one of the most important things to consumers.
I do not ignore price point as a factor (just said it was an almost insignificant one, esp. at this point), nor did I suggest it wasn’t important to consumers, only that the price of other game systems wasn’t important. If you truly think that a significant number of Wii buyers were choosing between a Wii and a PS3/360 then good luck with that, but again, it’s silly to me.

[shnastybiznastic]

Didnt want to be a C language snob. Figured I wouldl keep it to a dialog that wasnt C derived.
If they don't want to learn C, fuck em'.

[Serapth]

If they don't want to learn C, fuck em'.

And if they want to learn C, they are fucked. :D

[shnastybiznastic]

And if they want to learn C, they are fucked. :D
Nowadays, yeah.

Kids roll up into the University, they be wantin' to learn some real gangsta' shit. They know how to reference they own pointers and all, but they teachers be spoutin' some whack-ass object-oriented bullshit. All Java and C++...

[Serapth]

Nowadays, yeah.

Kids roll up into the University, they be wantin' to learn some real gangsta' shit. They know how to reference they own pointers and all, but they teachers be spoutin' some whack-ass object-oriented bullshit. All Java and C++...


Punk ass bitches get beat down when they learn the real future is in that meta programming shit! Unroll this loop, bitch!

[shnastybiznastic]

This may be the one exchange I am most proud of. Perhaps it will fit on my memorial statue.

[Chameleo]

I wasn't trying to say that the Wii is cheap, but it's cheapest out of the new hardware. If the Wii was $300-$400 retail, there's no way it would be enjoying the success it's having now. I'll stand by my previous statement : The Wii is a success due largely in part to it's price point being significantly less than the competition and the fact that it's doing something that we haven't seen from a console before. To pretend that the price point is not a factor is ignoring one of the most important things to consumers.

the gamecube was cheap and it didn't win.

all of a sudden price matters?

selective memory and justifications here.



if the wii was 3 or 4 hundred it'd have a larger built in flash drive and a faster processor with a better GPU. and it'd probably still be winning.

[jonat3]

the gamecube was cheap and it didn't win.

all of a sudden price matters?

selective memory and justifications here.



if the wii was 3 or 4 hundred it'd have a larger built in flash drive and a faster processor with a better GPU. and it'd probably still be winning.

True, it's the wiimote that is THE most important factor of the wii's success. But price certainly helps. Especially if Nintendo wants to reach their new demographic. I imagine non gamers are less inclined to part with their money like casual gamers and hardcore gamers.

[Gorvi]

the gamecube was cheap and it didn't win.

all of a sudden price matters?

selective memory and justifications here.



if the wii was 3 or 4 hundred it'd have a larger built in flash drive and a faster processor with a better GPU. and it'd probably still be winning.
So you lived in a world where the Gamecube was $150-$350 cheaper than it's competition? That must have sucked for you.

[shnastybiznastic]

Well, it was not as extreme as it is now, but the cube had a good $100 difference between it and every other console. Now, that may not seem like much, but it was a third cheaper than anything else at the time.

Of course, without the casual market and new control scheme, the price point of the Wii wouldn't be as big of a deal as it is now. I imagine confusing multi-SKU offerings from everyone else make the decision to go with the Wii even more cemented in peoples' minds.

[nathansmart]

I think the only thing about the article that I don't agree with is that Nintendo has never cared about the console wars. Of course they did - they may not now but they used to always talk about it.