Wii is the Best Product Ever According to PC Magazine

[Kamalot]

PC Magazine takes a look at the Wii from a number of factors and falls head over heels with it. In fact, the article calls Nintendo's Wii, the "Best Product Ever (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2148821,00.asp)". They appreciate the fresh new approach to the system and its games. The author, never a big console gamer, not only finds the system cross-generational, affordable and inspiring, but notes how Wii has swept into public culture with its focused, fun approach.

Let Go and Think Big: There's a scene in Star Wars: Episode IV: A New Hope (originally released as Star Wars in 1977), when Luke Skywalker is being trained by Ben Obi-Wan Kenobi to use a lightsaber. Ben tells Luke to "use the force" and "let go of your conscious self and act on instinct." This is what Nintendo obviously did with the Wii. Instead of trying to one-up the competition, it took a moment to imagine a console system that would appeal to everyone.

Sony, on the other hand, seems to have learned nothing from the popularity of the PlayStation 2. Instead, it created a gaming-console monster that has all the elegance and appeal of a coffee enema. Would a coffee enema still deliver caffeine into your bloodstream?

[MajSheppard]

No one is more pro Nintendo then I, and this is abusrd. Best Product ever? What about a Fridge, or a car, or a tv which is necessary for the Wii.

Rediculous.

[TenaciousAssassin]

I could go for a coffee enema right about now. Anyway, umm... This Star Wars fan is clearly overlooking the lack of games. Lol. Yes, I am a Wii owner.

[Bravado]

Where did this guy come from?

Awesome product? Hells yes. Best Ever? Remains to be seen.

[Kamalot]

It would probably draw more attention if he called it the Best Product Among All Expanses of Time and Space, or BPAAETS for short.

Personally, I prefer sliced bread.

[Johan]

PC Magazine isn't really a bad mag. I like it myself.

This, however, is hyperbolic (to be kind) or idiotic (to be honest).

The Wii is penetrating our culture, but few people are talking about the PS3. Look at all the stories about the Wii injuries, which seem to have done nothing to hurt the console's appeal. And the game system is even becoming synonymous with "easy." I'm tempted to call the Wii's public reception almost "Apple iPod-like." We all know Apple's success in launching new brands and product lines. I'd put Nintendo up there, too. Just look at its track record: GameBoy, GameBoy Advance, Nintendo DS, Nintendo DS Lite.

Heady stuff, but you have to admit the Nintendo Wii is the best product ever, seriously.

No. No, I don't have to admit that at all. I'm thinking of a thousand other products that are better/more important/more useful. :rolleyes:

Here's an actual list of the "best" tech products. (http://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/040507-the-50-best-tech-products.html?t51hb) Still opinion, but opinion that makes some sense at least!

[Rock Bandit]

So is PC Magazine saying that the Wii is a better product than, oh say, the personal computer? Ah, I'm sure they just mean it's "the best product ever at the moment". I hate best ever proclamations (unless they mean combining peanut butter and chocolate. that was the best ever).

[jacktion]

Would a coffee enema still deliver caffeine into your bloodstream?


Oh yeah. It sure does.

[Blade]

It's not the best product ever unless you're looking at it from a marketing standpoint.

[Reo Strong]

Oh yeah. It sure does.

It works for Alchohol too!

http://www.enematips.com/beerorwinen.html

[donkeydrop]

Would a coffee enema still deliver caffeine into your bloodstream?

Well, since you asked :D ...yes, caffeine is absorbed in the the large intestine, in fact it is absorbed to a greater extent and more quickly than from the stomach and small intestine. So next time you can't wait for that caffeine rush in the morning you know what to do :p

[TenaciousAssassin]

It works for Alchohol too!

http://www.enematips.com/beerorwinen.html
Whoa. So it's true! *Runs to make coffee*

[bean19]

Where did this guy come from?

Awesome product? Hells yes. Best Ever? Remains to be seen.

I think I'm the only person on Evil Avatar that has no desire to pay $250 for a Wii.

1. Bad online.
2. Poor game line-up so far, most frequent complaint from owners is that there is nothing to play.
3. Last-gen graphics and hardware that is equivalent to the original Xbox in power.
4. Controller that often requires you to control with the on-screen pointer (piloting a straw with rockets).

I bought one at launch and have thus beaten Zelda, Trauma Center (didn't beat this but got far enough to know I don't want to play anymore), Rayman Raving Rabids, and Excite Truck. I also played and hated Red Steel. Also, I play the party games at a friend's house.

Thus, if I were to buy it today I would play Super Paper Mario and it would then collect dust until the Fall. . . I know you guys seem to be having a good time with it, but my friend who owns one says he never plays it except when I am over. I don't understand how the system is doing this well.

[RMan]

Hehe, I think people are nitpicking just a bit much. Kinda sounds like someone saying “This is the best book ever” then responding with “What about the phone book?”. I’m not necessarily defending the statement, just bashing the bashers :).

[benig]

I think he meant it as hyperbole and tongue in cheek. Little did he know that he was talking about video games and thus communities like this will take him seriously and shit on him.

[jonat3]

I think he meant it as hyperbole and tongue in cheek. Little did he know that he was talking about video games and thus communities like this will take him seriously and shit on him.

Ding Ding Ding!! We have a winner! Quote of the year.

[Grimmjow]

I think I'm the only person on Evil Avatar that has no desire to pay $250 for a Wii.

1. Bad online.
2. Poor game line-up so far, most frequent complaint from owners is that there is nothing to play.
3. Last-gen graphics and hardware that is equivalent to the original Xbox in power.
4. Controller that often requires you to control with the on-screen pointer (piloting a straw with rockets).

I bought one at launch and have thus beaten Zelda, Trauma Center (didn't beat this but got far enough to know I don't want to play anymore), Rayman Raving Rabids, and Excite Truck. I also played and hated Red Steel. Also, I play the party games at a friend's house.

Thus, if I were to buy it today I would play Super Paper Mario and it would then collect dust until the Fall. . . I know you guys seem to be having a good time with it, but my friend who owns one says he never plays it except when I am over. I don't understand how the system is doing this well.


you are wrong sir, you and I both are on that same boat. I had a Wii 1 week b4 it even came out (due to industry I work in) and I was not pleased, Trauma center can only take me so far. I really think the Wii is just a FAD. If people want to buy a gamecube with a different twist with it, go head and let them.

[Grimmjow]

Personally, I prefer sliced bread.

NOW you talking, you know how many P and J sammiches I made, or Grilled cheese sammiches!! honestly, I love me some bread, especially sliced bread:D

[jonat3]

Heck, the wii has been gathering dust for months for me as well. But i'm not going to judge the wii for that....yet. It's pretty much standard that every console is going through a dry period the first year. The xbox360 went through it, the PS3 is now undergoing it and so is the wii (for me atleast). Atleast the non gamer/casual gamer group is getting their enjoyment out of the wii.

[LilAbner]

At least the guy admits he 's no gamer....which is interesting because it seems that's who Wii appeals to most: the non/casual gamer.

Meanwhile, us serious gamers watch the dust accumulate on our Wiis (hold the jokes, please). However, I'll definitely pick up RE4 for Wii since I never did on GC (but did rent and beat it).

[Lothair]

Heck, the wii has been gathering dust for months for me as well. But i'm not going to judge the wii for that....yet. It's pretty much standard that every console is going through a dry period the first year. The xbox360 went through it, the PS3 is now undergoing it and so is the wii (for me atleast). Atleast the non gamer/casual gamer group is getting their enjoyment out of the wii.


It seems to be pretty standard for most consoles this time of the year, but we have higher expectations of new consoles and so we notice it more. Honestly, it's not like the 360 has had a non-stop avalanche of great titles this last few months either. The only platforms that are doing well on releases so far this year are the DS and the PS2.

[trip1eX]

What I can say? PCmag knows a good product when it sees one.

SEriously though it's getting this rave because (besides being a very good product) it's the David while the others were the Goliaths.

[Rafer]

I bought one at launch and have thus beaten Zelda, Trauma Center (didn't beat this but got far enough to know I don't want to play anymore), Rayman Raving Rabids, and Excite Truck. I also played and hated Red Steel. Also, I play the party games at a friend's house.

I have to suggest the tragically underrated Kororinpa, man that game is awesome, just hold off some of the levels until playing 2 player, it's more fun when nobody knows the levels.

Anyway I think it is going through the same dry spell as the DS initially, I bet a lot of developers only started taking the Wii seriously when they saw the 6 hour lineup at E3 last year and we'll be seeing the positive result from that in 08.

[DeathtollWRX]

I bought a Wii a few months back and played Wii sports for a few hours. Later that day I returned it and got my $250 plus tax back. I realized it wasn't exactly what I wanted. I mean the games were fun but were so easy nothing offered a challenge. I was already expecting the graphics but for some reason using the Wii mote and playing the games got old really fast. I'm not trying to bash the Wii as I am going to buy one for SSBM and SMG. Just right now the games don't appeal to me.
On a side note i'm currently playing through Final Fantasy III on the DS.. loads of fun.. perhaps the Wii will get some remakes as well.

[Zeal]

the wii lacks even a single must have game, uses a controller that is basically incompatible with every traditional genre of gaming, and has graphics that are rivaled by handhelds.

im confident in saying that people who obsess over wii are either completely ignorant of the game industry, or have simply never played videogames before in their lives.

i sold mine 3 months after launch. why? just as the cube and n64 before it, it has zero third-party support and zero games worth playing.

[score]

I have to suggest the tragically underrated Kororinpa, man that game is awesome, just hold off some of the levels until playing 2 player, it's more fun when nobody knows the levels.

Agreed. Also, If they just took a bit more time and included a level editor of sort this game would have been a must have.

[Adam Blue]

I have one and I don't even play it. Seriously, what am I supposed to play? Games that I already have on my Genesis, SNES, etc?

[D.D.D.]

Would a coffee enema still deliver caffeine into your bloodstream?

Yes... Now with this information, are you going to get one? :rolleyes:

[JimmyDanger]

Well it is a great product. There is no doubt of that.

It's probably getting more love than my launch Phat DS did at this stage in it's lifespan (somewhere between buggery and fuck-all) - but the install base is there - the games'll come. I didn't see much on the immediate horizon when the DS came out - but couldn't pass it (or the Wii) up, simply because it innovates control. I couldn't stand the thought of missing out on something so exciting and different.

In retrospect though - I probably could've waited.

I used to think my 56k voice modem was the greatest thing ever - if that counts.
In retrospect I may have been a little generous in my praise.

[jonat3]

Sheesh, people are so damn impatient. I remember when the xbox360 went through the same period and the whiners kept complaining as well. Deal with it, folks.

*shakes head at the ignorance*

[JimmyDanger]

By this stage in the 360's life - I had Dead Rising.

Nuff Said.

[CapnBob]

By this stage in the 360's life - I had Dead Rising.

Nuff Said.

No, actually, you didn't.

[Achilles]

No, actually, you didn't.
True enough, though there were some other games of note out around this time of year on the 360.

Dead Rising: August 8
Oblivion: March 20
Ghost Recon: March 7
Burnout Revenge: March 7
Tomb Raider Legend: April 11

This year is more bare than last year, but The Darkness is coming out in 7 days which is apparently extremely good. And Forza 2 last month. Though the Wii had Brain Training Wii this month, and Mario Party Wii, both of which are big games for them.

[EvlD99]

This year is more bare than last year, but The Darkness is coming out in 7 days which is apparently extremely good. And Forza 2 last month. Though the Wii had Brain Training Wii this month, and Mario Party Wii, both of which are big games for them.

Dirt and Overlord are looking to be very good games as well. I think the 360 has a pretty strong summer line up and hasn't been to shabby so far especially if you include the original Live Arcade titles.

[Ancalagon]

"So, in other words, the Nintendo Wii is the Best Product Ever, and if you dont have one you should buy one right now. We'd like to thank our sponsors, Nintendo, for making this possible, and we'd like to say to Sony and Microsoft that they need to write larger cheques."

[easi]

you are wrong sir, you and I both are on that same boat. I had a Wii 1 week b4 it even came out (due to industry I work in) and I was not pleased, Trauma center can only take me so far. I really think the Wii is just a FAD. If people want to buy a gamecube with a different twist with it, go head and let them.

txt spk idiot.

There is plenty to play on Wii but Sony fanboys like you would rather shill for them on messageboards than actually, you know, take the time to research.

[Kamalot]

Yes... Now with this information, are you going to get one? :rolleyes:
Every morning. In fact, you'll probably be able to tell the difference in my posts.

[Kamalot]

Dirt and Overlord are looking to be very good games as well. I think the 360 has a pretty strong summer line up and hasn't been to shabby so far especially if you include the original Live Arcade titles.I agree that the 360 is what I've been playing this summer. Wii is sitting in the middle of a dry spell, just like the PS3 is. Last summer, there was nothing o play on the 360.

[bjornbarspingvinen]

the Wii is a great product,but I can´t help feeling it´s more of a novelty product. The games are more like singstar products than excellent AAA games in my book. Fun, sure, but not the best possible representations of the games.

But if I was a shareholder, I would love it, it´s cheap to produce , it´s overhyped, selling likte crazy and the media loves it. But as a gamer, not so much.

[bapenguin]

Hillarious. Is the Wii a good product? Yes. Is it the best product ever? No. Is it over-rated? Yes.

I still predict a flatline after this holiday season for the Wii. I think the novelty will have worn off for the non traditional players. I've yet to see anything announced on the horizon specifically for the "Wii-sports" crowd.

The price drops from the competiting systems will draw in the hardcore players as well.

[Gorvi]

Damn it, BaP took my post. :p

[Kamalot]

I still predict a flatline after this holiday season for the Wii. I think the novelty will have worn off for the non traditional players. I've yet to see anything announced on the horizon specifically for the "Wii-sports" crowd.
Isn't there some kind of Wii Health thing coming for non-traditional gamers? I suppose we'll have to wait to find out, seeing as to how we won't be at Nintendo's E3 conference.

[CapnBob]

The biggest problem with the Wii right now is the GameCube. Very few of the third parties took the Wii seriously coming off the heels of its predecessor until it actually hit the market and now they're all struggling to catch up. This drought is going to end, and we've already rather shockingly seen Electronic Arts embrace the Wii with games that go beyond being merely watered down ports. Right now I'm just having too much fun with the new controls on RE4 to be all that concerned about the wait.

[Gorvi]

Isn't there some kind of Wii Health thing coming for non-traditional gamers? I suppose we'll have to wait to find out, seeing as to how we won't be at Nintendo's E3 conference.
Is that really something people will run out and spend $50 on though? Nintendo needs to examine their pricing structure for some of the smaller games, like Big Brain Academy and Cooking Mama. If they were to put those out where they should be, say $30, they'd be much more successful.

[shnastybiznastic]

Man, think of all the coffee enemas I could have had if I had read this article earlier in my life!

[Skyelan]

I still predict a flatline after this holiday season for the Wii. I think the novelty will have worn off for the non traditional players. I've yet to see anything announced on the horizon specifically for the "Wii-sports" crowd.

The price drops from the competiting systems will draw in the hardcore players as well.

I think the article was nothing but hyperbole, but come on.

You expect it to flatline... Once the games everyone has been waiting for arrive? Why exactly would it flatline then? If anything the demand would get stronger, now that core gamers have shit to play.

Besides, I can't imagine why you don't see more casual/new-gamer games coming. EA is set up to court them very well with Boogie and MySims, Nintendo's got two more known 'Wiiwhatever' games planned, one of which I fully expect to be a holiday title. For a group that supposedly doesn't buy many games, three seems about right. Three that we know of, anyway.

This is definitely gonna sound like hyperbole, but eh. I don't think doubt in the Wii is ever going to fade, no matter what it does. It's new, it's different, and the longer it sells like mad, the longer it completely trashes what's driven the industry, what we're used to. Which is why we continue to see people swear up and down that it's gonna destroy core gaming and we'll all be playing popcap games. :rolleyes:

Myself, I just fail to see how a system that's selling like mad, having third parties rush to make shit for it, and continues to get more and more facetime, is just going to shrivel up and die. Especially once the biggest complaint, no games, is tossed aside and only the absolutely ignorant could continue to spout it come this holiday rush.

Edit: I should specify that I am in no way accusing you of only saying what you say out of some rediculous 'fear' or shit like that. Just an observation.

[bapenguin]

The biggest problem with the Wii right now is the GameCube. Very few of the third parties took the Wii seriously coming off the heels of its predecessor until it actually hit the market and now they're all struggling to catch up. This drought is going to end, and we've already rather shockingly seen Electronic Arts embrace the Wii with games that go beyond being merely watered down ports. Right now I'm just having too much fun with the new controls on RE4 to be all that concerned about the wait.

But the games the third parties HAVE announced are franchise tie-ins that don't break away from the traditional gamer stereotypes. Basically they are similar games with Wii controls, and frankly all the ones I've played like that aren't very good.

The games that ARE good on the Wii are the ones designed from the ground up for the Wii with no Tie-Ins to other franchise titles. That's what the Wii needs more of.

[Telefrog]

The control scheme on the Wii is a great novelty to us hardcore gamers. So far, though, it looks like we're following the precedent set forth by the Gamecube. Not many worthy games will be available beyond the 1st party stuff. It's a great boon to Nintendo's bottom line, but it will (mark my words) taper off because Soccer Moms and Senior Citizens are more than content to play Wii Sports forever.

[Roc Ingersol]

It could use some more games.

[Draconis]

Hillarious. Is the Wii a good product? Yes. Is it the best product ever? No. Is it over-rated? Yes.

I still predict a flatline after this holiday season for the Wii. I think the novelty will have worn off for the non traditional players. I've yet to see anything announced on the horizon specifically for the "Wii-sports" crowd.

The price drops from the competiting systems will draw in the hardcore players as well.


Nothing Flatlines like a 360!!! RED RING OF FIRE!!! YEEEAAAAAHHHHH!!!



Yes, I went there.

The Wii has a steady influx of games coming in. Some are going to change the way we perceive games and will be fun and innovative to play. Others will be the usual rehash tacked on control crap we are used to seeing with multi platform ports. Those will be nothing new.


A quick glance at IGN's release list (which may or may not be accurate) Shows the following that might be of interest for the Nintendo Wii

Spring 2008 Mushroom Men Gamecock Media Group ActJune 26, 2007
Transformers: The Game
July 10, 2007 Manhunt 2
July 30, 2007 Mario Strikers Charged Nintendo
July 2007 Alien Syndrome
August 7, 2007 Boogie Electronic Arts
August 20, 2007 Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
September 4, 2007 Dewy's Adventure
September 11, 2007 Brothers in Arms: Double Time
September 24, 2007 Battalion Wars 2
September 2007 Disaster: Day of Crisis
September 2007 Dragon Blade: Wrath of Fire
Q3 2007 Godzilla: Unleashed
Q3 2007 Guitar Hero III
Fall 2007 Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution
Q3 2007 One Piece: Unlimited Adventure
Fall 2007 Rayman Raving Rabbids 2
Fall 2007 Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure
October 2, 2007 Crash of the Titans
October 2007 NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams
October 2007 Wii Music Nintendo
November 6, 2007 Ghost Squad
November 6, 2007 LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga
November 6, 2007 SoulCalibur Legends Namco Bandai
November 2007 Agatha Christie: And Then There Were None
November 2007 Beowulf Ubisoft
November 2007 Fire Emblem: Goddess of Dawn
November 2007 Harvest Moon Heroes Natsume
November 2007 Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games
Holiday 2007 Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 3
Holiday 2007 Rock Band [Rumored]
TBA 2007 Ultimate Duck Hunting
TBA 2007 Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Crystal Bearers
TBA 2007 Lara Croft Tomb Raider: Anniversary
TBA 2007 Penny Arcade Adventures [TBA]
TBA 2007 Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles
TBA 2007 Super Mario Galaxy Nintendo
TBA 2007 Wii Motor Sports Airplane
Spring 2008 Hail To The Chimp Gamecock Media Group
TBA 2008 Prince of Persia Next-Gen [untitled]


Some of those honestly look very interesting. Others? Not so much. And mind you that's not the entire List. That's just what I pulled up and felt might be WORTH even looking at for most gamers.

Put simply, the Wii is going nowhere. I don't think it's going to flatline. ESPECIALLY since we are seeing a TON of Developers suddenly scrambling to try and develop for the platform. Logically speaking, I don't think they're going to sit there and do the following...

" Okay guys! Bapenguins Prediction bears dark tides of fortune for us! The Wii is going to flatline after the Holiday season and even though we are working on a killer title for it and have spent tons of money in development for it, we need to forego our financial interests and just kill off our projects and makes some more ps3 and 360 games K? Kthxbye. "

Not gonna happen man.

[Kamalot]

No offense Bapenguin, but man sometimes you come off as the most staunch and adamant 360 lover that ever exists. If I'm wrong in this, then I am wrong. But that's just the way you come off to me.
I didn't see any 360 love in Bap's post, just a healthy dose of Wii skepticism.

[Gorvi]

Drac, I didn't see a PilotWiings game on there, so that list still fails. ;)

[Draconis]

I didn't see any 360 love in Bap's post, just a healthy dose of Wii skepticism.


True....it may just be early morning to me and my mind is still trying to grease the squeeky wheels.

Edited the Original post to exclude that. My comment about the prediction still stands though.

[Draconis]

Drac, I didn't see a PilotWiings game on there, so that list still fails. ;)

LMFAO. Actually I think I forewent the Pilotwings game they listed. I DO believe it was actually on IGNs list, but I am not sure as to the number of people who love it.

[Yellowman]

But it's not really Wii scepticism, it's a simple 'it's DOOOOMMMMEEDDD' post.

[Gorvi]

LMFAO. Actually I think I forewent the Pilotwings game they listed. I DO believe it was actually on IGNs list, but I am not sure as to the number of people who love it.
I loved the original on the SNES, never really played the N64 game. I'd love to see another in the series though, but then again I love those arcadey/sim combo flight games. Hell, I enjoyed Sky Odyssey on the PS2. :p

[Watership]

I think the Wii is awesome. The actual hardware. The games? There are like 3 REAL games and the rest are bad ports and mini games collections. The gamecube at this point had better titles.

[TDub301]

Draconis, I can't believe this, that game list is missing the most important name, can't believe you forgot to put it in there (unless I missed it somehow). I don't even think I need to say the name of this game that will be (better be) spectacular when it is realeased (supposed to be this year, probably around november).

the wii lacks even a single must have game, uses a controller that is basically incompatible with every traditional genre of gaming, and has graphics that are rivaled by handhelds.

im confident in saying that people who obsess over wii are either completely ignorant of the game industry, or have simply never played videogames before in their lives.

i sold mine 3 months after launch. why? just as the cube and n64 before it, it has zero third-party support and zero games worth playing.

Very ignorant post, I think you were lying about ever owning the Wii. The controller is compatable with every traditional genre and goes beyond, that's what makes it so good, open your eyes. Games for Wii are not forced to use motion controls (like Brawl) and there's still plenty of buttons and other controller options when not used.

So I suppose you sell all your systems 3 months after launch, because no system has many good games when it first comes out(at least you could've made money off your Wii, can't say the same for your PS3 if you bought one of those, too). You have to be completely ignorant of the game industry. Over-emphasized posts don't make you look smart, maybe you were purposefully trying not to, I dunno...

[Skyelan]

I think the Wii is awesome. The actual hardware. The games? There are like 3 REAL games and the rest are bad ports and mini games collections. The gamecube at this point had better titles.

Really? Let's count!

Pikmin, Melee, Luigi's Mansion, Star Wars.

Luigi's Mansion also was WAY too short. I don't think I could've payed more than the 10 bucks used I did. Great, but too short.

Now, let's contrast this with:

Super Paper Mario, Twilight Princess, Trauma Center, DBZ Tenkaichi 2, WiiSports, Resident Evil 4, Wario Ware (It is microgames, but this one is generally seen as worth buying, the rest being junk).

Other games that reviews varied on, but gamers seem to really enjoy, are Super Swing Golf, Excite Truck, Sonic, Godfather (Port, but very far from a bad one), SSX Blur...

Not including the likes of Big Brain Academy and Kororinpa, which are widely considered to be good, just not for the price (The games themselves however are good).

I'm sure I missed some good GC games, but there's no way you can tell me with a straight face that the Gamecube had more, and better, games at this point in time.

Mind you, I do admit, Melee going toe to toe with any single one of these games has Melee with the favor, but it's still just one game.

[Draconis]

I think the Wii is awesome. The actual hardware. The games? There are like 3 REAL games and the rest are bad ports and mini games collections. The gamecube at this point had better titles.


My Wii Collection:

Zelda: Twilight Princess
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz (Girlfriends)
Metal Slug Anthology
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition (Managed to have enough cash to snag it)
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Trauma Center: Second Opinion (Girlfriends)
Mario Party 8 (Girlfriends)
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi
Wii Sports
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Elebits (Girlfriends)


And that's the collection off of the top of my head. I think you, my good friend, are suffering from the stereotype of Nintendo and not actually, you know, RESEARCHING things. In lamens terms, Yer talking out yer arse.

The Wii has VERY few mini game collection titles compared to ACTUAL GAMES. Get over the stereotype.

[Roc Ingersol]

They need Outlaw Golf on the Wii, stat. Or at least a similar golf game that's light and fun, without being 'DOAX Golf'. (I'm looking at you SuperSwing Golf - game with a hundred other sins.)

And coop party shooters. Like Time Crisis 2 or that Jurassic Park Arcade shooter from a few years back.

[Codicier]

Very ignorant post, I think you were lying about ever owning the Wii. The controller is compatable with every traditional genre and goes beyond, that's what makes it so good, open your eyes. Games for Wii are not forced to use motion controls (like Brawl) and there's still plenty of buttons and other controller options when not used.

So I suppose you sell all your systems 3 months after launch, because no system has many good games when it first comes out(at least you could've made money off your Wii, can't say the same for your PS3 if you bought one of those, too). You have to be completely ignorant of the game industry. Over-emphasized posts don't make you look smart, maybe you were purposefully trying not to, I dunno...

You don't know Zeal, do you?

[shnastybiznastic]

I'm so glad other people came in and corrected that nonsense so I wouldn't have to.

[TDub301]

You don't know Zeal, do you?

No, is that a good or bad thing?

[Draconis]

No, is that a good or bad thing?


Put simply, you took the bait and amused Zeal. He's like that. His statements at times are not his own actual opinion, but rather something designed to incite commentary or responses.

[TDub301]

Put simply, you took the bait and amused Zeal. He's like that. His statements at times are not his own actual opinion, but rather something designed to incite commentary or responses.

Hm, good to know, I'll have to remember that. Good one Zeal, I guess that can be the equivalent to internet blogger hazing

[bean19]

Is that really something people will run out and spend $50 on though? Nintendo needs to examine their pricing structure for some of the smaller games, like Big Brain Academy and Cooking Mama. If they were to put those out where they should be, say $30, they'd be much more successful.

All there games except for the big ones like Zelda and Super Mario Galaxy should be $20-$30. For the most part, the Wii is a handheld that you can't hold in your hand. The prices should reflect that. Then I could understand the craze over the system as it really would market casual gamers. At the current price point, games are still too expensive to be normal mass-market purchases.

Of course, for that to work, they need a bigger install base, and since the system is still selling out everywhere. . .

[Kamalot]

My Wii Collection:

Zelda: Twilight Princess
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz (Girlfriends)
Metal Slug Anthology
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition (Managed to have enough cash to snag it)
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Trauma Center: Second Opinion (Girlfriends)
Mario Party 8 (Girlfriends)
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi
Wii Sports
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Elebits (Girlfriends)


And that's the collection off of the top of my head. I think you, my good friend, are suffering from the stereotype of Nintendo and not actually, you know, RESEARCHING things. In lamens terms, Yer talking out yer arse.

The Wii has VERY few mini game collection titles compared to ACTUAL GAMES. Get over the stereotype.Something to note is that a number of the Wii titles are your girlfriend's. That means she's playing too. Ms. Kamalot plays Wii with me, but barely ever touches the 360. There isn't enough to play cooperatively on the 360. We hit up Earth Defense Force and Gears but she told me why she does not like playing those as much as Wii.

Her statement was along the lines of , 'I want to play games with You. Gears is fun, but it is dirty and stressful. Why would I want to come home in the evening from work and go someplace dirty and stressful for fun?'

I can't say I disagree.

[Codicier]

Put simply, you took the bait and amused Zeal. He's like that. His statements at times are not his own actual opinion, but rather something designed to incite commentary or responses.

Never have I seen trolling put so politely.There's a reason he's puke green and it isn't because he likes Halo. Yeah I know Evil Avatar says it's because he wanted it, but we know what that colour used to represent around here.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm cool with Zeal, he's hilarious. But I take little of anything he says seriously.

[Draconis]

Something to note is that a number of the Wii titles are your girlfriend's. That means she's playing too. Ms. Kamalot plays Wii with me, but barely ever touches the 360. There isn't enough to co cooperatively on the 360. We hit up Earth Defense Force and Gears but she told me why she does not like playing those as much as Wii.

Her statement was along the lines of , 'I want to play games with You. Gears is fun, but it is dirty and stressful. Why would I want to come home in the evening from work and go someplace dirty and stressful for fun?'

I can't say I disagree.


LOL love the Comment under your name Kamalot. Coffee Enema. That's just awesome man.


As for things, yes, I agree. I love the fact that my girlfriend is a gamer and is actually a hardcore gamer. Truth be told, she plays my Xbox 360 more then I do!!!

But I love the fact that I can pick up a game like say, Culdcept, Mario Party, Wii Sports, Samurai Warriors 2, or alot of other games we have...and just play games with her and spend time with her that way. It makes a huge difference.

My Girlfriend is like your Wife though man. She won't touch alot of FPS's, games like Gears...etc. In fact, one of the main purchasing points for her in a game is "Can multiple people play it at the same time?" Hell, the only FPS she will end up touching this year aside from UT 2k4 Assault games, is Bioshock, as she is a HUGE fan of anything System Shock and has 100% faith in the developer that the game will rock.


She likes socializing. And if people can play a game, whether it be a board game, puzzle game, video game...etc...then she's all for it. Truth be told, I'm lucky as hell to have her. If it means playing a game of Mario Party with her and having some quality time over a video Game, I'll take that any fricking day over the way some women are atypically.

Put simply, the Wii is breaching barriers that alot of games DON'T. My Girlfriend plays the Wii a HELLUVA lot more then the 360. It's just more fun to her. Hell, to even say she plays the 360 more then me says alot right there.

[Serapth]

It would probably draw more attention if he called it the Best Product Among All Expanses of Time and Space, or BPAAETS for short.

Personally, I prefer sliced bread.


Cool, I invented that. Sliced bread that is.


This guys a tool and has been hit way to hard by the hype fairy. I'm guessing if it wasnt PC Magazine he would be calling the iPhone the greatest product every.

Hypemonkey.

[bean19]

My Wii Collection:

Zelda: Twilight Princess - beat it, but loved it.
Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz - don't like it
Metal Slug Anthology - I enjoy this for 5-15 minutes and then don't want to see it for another month every time I play it.
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition (Managed to have enough cash to snag it) - beat it and still own it on PS2
Rayman Raving Rabbids - beat it, but loved it. Prefer the 360 version as the mini-games don't hurt my arms as much and it's prettier.
Trauma Center: Second Opinion - played it until it is too hard for me to want to play it.
Mario Party 8 Played it at friend's house and hate it. Prefer Wario Wares - fewer load screens and bullcrap animations.
Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi - Hate it.
Wii Sports - Played it and found it boring. Tech demo.
Sonic and the Secret Rings - awful controls - hate it.
Elebits - Played it at a friend's house and found it "meh".

So out of those games, I have absolutely zero that I would want to own or play. Now, to be fair, if I were to list Xbox 360 games, a lot of the AAA titles would have "beat it" next to them, but there are more games coming out, more quickly that appeal to me directly or indirectly than on the Wii.

And that's the collection off of the top of my head. I think you, my good friend, are suffering from the stereotype of Nintendo and not actually, you know, RESEARCHING things. In lamens terms, Yer talking out yer arse.

The Wii has VERY few mini game collection titles compared to ACTUAL GAMES. Get over the stereotype.

I disagree. You've got one big title on there (Zelda) and oddly you don't have Super Paper Mario. The rest of those are "B" games that someone making a list of Xbox 360 titles that are interesting (even in the first 8 months) wouldn't bother to include.

Also, the Wii does have a ton of party games that have tons of mini-games: Wii Sports, Mario Party, Rayman Raving Rabids, Wario Ware, Super Monkey Ball, Big Brain Academy, Cooking Mama. . . They kick ass at little mini-game type games and party games. That's actually one of the selling points of the Wii.

However, really good titles that are interesting? Well, not so much. Eventually they'll have Dragon Quest Swords and that Final Fantasy game. Plus, Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid.

The Wii isn't going to STAY a platform that is only about party games, puzzles, and a light-smattering of excellent first-party titles. It will get better, but there is good reason for the game library being criticized right now.

There are a lot of Wii owners that complain about the system just collecting dust like their Gamecube did, and that won't change for a bit. However, since it looks like it will be the console leader coming out of this year, there are already a lot of 3rd-party developers that are developing for it.

Don't worrry, your system may be over-rated right now, but that's causing tons of sales that will help it to get a ton of support later on.

[Kamalot]

All there games except for the big ones like Zelda and Super Mario Galaxy should be $20-$30. For the most part, the Wii is a handheld that you can't hold in your hand. The prices should reflect that. Then I could understand the craze over the system as it really would market casual gamers. At the current price point, games are still too expensive to be normal mass-market purchases.

Of course, for that to work, they need a bigger install base, and since the system is still selling out everywhere. . .
I agree with you on the price of games. But the prices of titles fall, and more casual gamers will be able to pick them up when they hit the Player's Choice price point.

[Hellstorm]

I still predict a flatline after this holiday season for the Wii. I think the novelty will have worn off for the non traditional players. I've yet to see anything announced on the horizon specifically for the "Wii-sports" crowd.



Just like how pokemon and the DS were fads huh? Let's not forget that the DS has nothing gamers want.

I get a sense of fear from those that splurged on a $399+ console. Fear that a $250 console is taking over the market, rendering their uber systems less viable for third parties.

face it, the Wii is in your marketplace stealing all your marketshare. Expect a lot of games you never seen on a Nintendo console in a long time make debuts on the Wii. :D

[Gorvi]

I agree with you on the price of games. But the prices of titles fall, and more casual gamers will be able to pick them up when they hit the Player's Choice price point.
That's if Nintendo even decides to do that with the Wii. On the DS, Animal Crossing is still $35, and it's been out for what, nearly 2 years now?

[Phanto]

One thing is selling a lot of consoles but the other thing is having good games, Nintendo should start approaching developers so they can make new exclusives games for the Wii and not only the DS. Sad but true the DS have more exclusivities than the Wii in fact the Wii don't have exclusivities at all.

[shnastybiznastic]

I kind of feel for Bean19 since he has gone through this about fifty times per Wii thread (or at least once with me). On the other hand, I'm not sure that this list was directed at him. I was under the impression that listing "good" (this is subjective) Wii games was done in an effort to confront the myth that there are only party games on the system.

[Serapth]

Just like how pokemon and the DS were fads huh? Let's not forget that the DS has nothing gamers want.

I get a sense of fear from those that splurged on a $399+ console. Fear that a $250 console is taking over the market, rendering their uber systems less viable for third parties.

face it, the Wii is in your marketplace stealing all your marketshare. Expect a lot of games you never seen on a Nintendo console in a long time make debuts on the Wii. :D


I have both consoles and I agree with Bap. Sales of the Wii are going to greatly drop off, especially now that word of mouth is starting to die down.

Actually, of the handful of people I know that bought a Wii, its been almost the same story. Day 1 - OMG THIS IS THE SHIT!!! You gotta have one. Day 30 - Meh, its ok, Wii Sports is still fun Now - Its got no games I want, mines collecting dust, except Wii Sports.

My sample is only about 1/2 dozen people. None of them recommend the Wii without a disclaimer. Two of them dont even play it anymore, not even Wii sports. Here is a telling fact, after the first month, not a single one of these 6 people have bought an additional game, seven if you include myself.

[Kamalot]

That's if Nintendo even decides to do that with the Wii. On the DS, Animal Crossing is still $35, and it's been out for what, nearly 2 years now?
Animal crossing is still worth $35. It is a very long-term game, like an RPG, that people play for months on end, and is in a completely different class than minigame collections or puzzle games.

Let me know when you've 'beaten' Animal Crossing.

[Kamalot]

I have both consoles and I agree with Bap. Sales of the Wii are going to greatly drop off, especially now that word of mouth is starting to die down.
I have all 3 consoles, and I disagree with both of you. Aren't opinions great?

[bapenguin]

But it's not really Wii scepticism, it's a simple 'it's DOOOOMMMMEEDDD' post.

I never said it was doomed. Flatlining is not doomed. I just don't think it's going to keep the pace of sales that it currently has. It's going to level off and look more like the 360/PS3 for a while.

And of that list of games posted, I see a handful of "non traditional" titles. The rest, the multiplatform style cash-ins.

August 7, 2007 Boogie Electronic Arts
October 2007 Wii Music Nintendo
Q3 2007 Guitar Hero III
TBA 2007 Wii Motor Sports Airplane
November 2007 Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games

And yes, I am a strong supporter of the 360. Why? It's the system I have the most fun with. It's the system that gets played the most in my house.

My Wii? I turned it on for the first time in a month last week to play Mortal Kombat.

I really like the idea of the Wii, I've just seen very few things on it that would every make it my primary gaming platform, hell even my secondary platform.

There's no need for the Nintendo fanboys to get all defensive just because I think there's going to be a decline in sales for the Wii.

[bapenguin]

I get a sense of fear from those that splurged on a $399+ console. Fear that a $250 console is taking over the market, rendering their uber systems less viable for third parties.

face it, the Wii is in your marketplace stealing all your marketshare. Expect a lot of games you never seen on a Nintendo console in a long time make debuts on the Wii. :D

I have no fear of this. The third party support is ALREADY THERE on the 360. It's apparantly there on the PS3 even though we haven't seen it yet. The Wii is still up in the air. Look at the list that was posted above...that's about as many games as the 360 will have released in one month during the Holiday....yet that's how many games the Wii will have for the rest of the year? Please.

[Gorvi]

Animal crossing is still worth $35. It is a very long-term game, like an RPG, that people play for months on end, and is in a completely different class than minigame collections or puzzle games.

Let me know when you've 'beaten' Animal Crossing.
And there are a lot of games that are much better than Animal Crossing that make it to the Greatest Hits or Player's Choice lines. My point was that Nintendo has had great success with the DS, and hasn't lowered prices for it's more successful titles, even this far out from release. There is no Player's Choice for the DS that I've seen, though it did exist on the GBA. It's a trend I hope they don't continue with the Wii, but with it's absence on the DS, I'm not expecting to see it.

[Serapth]

I have all 3 consoles, and I disagree with both of you. Aren't opinions great?


Yes. Some though, are better then others! :D


Hey, im just relating what my circle of RL friends think of the Wii. Many of these people picked one up after playing it at my house. Of these 6, only one could actually be considered a gamer. These are the type of people driving Wii sales, and in my situation, to a man, each one is disappointed.

[Ancalagon]

I get a sense of fear from those that splurged on a $399+ console. Fear that a $250 console is taking over the market, rendering their uber systems less viable for third parties.

face it, the Wii is in your marketplace stealing all your marketshare. Expect a lot of games you never seen on a Nintendo console in a long time make debuts on the Wii.

Its not stealing marketshare, its creating marketshare where previously there was none. They are reaching people that they never had before.

That being said, it doesnt have much appeal to "hardcore" gamers. Yes you get your mario and zelda fans, but the fact that the Wii has sold as well as it has shows you how small a percentage of the population hardcore gamers are (including mario and zelda fans). What I mean, is that the Wii's sales wouldnt be nearly as high if it werent for "normal" people. Without them, it would be screwed.

And if it isnt careful, these normal people will stop buying games for their new toy. That is the biggest problem they have - they need to keep the impetus up.

[Serapth]

Its not stealing marketshare, its creating marketshare where previously there was none. They are reaching people that they never had before.

That being said, it doesnt have much appeal to "hardcore" gamers. Yes you get your mario and zelda fans, but the fact that the Wii has sold as well as it has shows you how small a percentage of the population hardcore gamers are (including mario and zelda fans). What I mean, is that the Wii's sales wouldnt be nearly as high if it werent for "normal" people. Without them, it would be screwed.

And if it isnt careful, these normal people will stop buying games for their new toy. That is the biggest problem they have - they need to keep the impetus up.


I tend to agree. As I stated, of the people I know who bought one, five were non-gamers. Thing is, this segment doesnt buy games because... well, they are non gamers. Basically they bought 250$ Wii Sports machines. Nintendo is cool with that though, as they make money on the hardware. Publishers... that will be interesting to see.

[Draconis]

I have no fear of this. The third party support is ALREADY THERE on the 360. It's apparantly there on the PS3 even though we haven't seen it yet. The Wii is still up in the air. Look at the list that was posted above...that's about as many games as the 360 will have released in one month during the Holiday....yet that's how many games the Wii will have for the rest of the year? Please.

Keep in mind that the List is from IGN and is not complete Bap. I left several things out like No More Heroes Etc....

Put simply, no one really knows what the third party list will look like 100% for the Nintendo Wii.

But just like you, I have my opinion. I don't think the Wii is going to flatline in sales. Slow down? Maybe. Flatline? Not so much.

Asides from that, I like playing my Wii more then my Xbox 360.

But if the truth of the matter came around, I'd say I spend more time playing PS2 games on my PS3 then any of the systems. More games to play then all of the next gen consoles right now that interest me. I've bought too many games I need to catch up on.

Oh, and I'm not a fanboy. I just see things differently then others. I love playing on all of the systems. (I have way too many frigging consoles since the Original NES. Damn near ALL of them in existance )

I just don't have rose tinted glasses on and my opinion differs from that of others. Which is fine. I will just call people out on when my opinion differs. Especially when it comes to predictions.

[TheFlyingOrc]

True enough, though there were some other games of note out around this time of year on the 360.

Dead Rising: August 8
Oblivion: March 20
Ghost Recon: March 7
Burnout Revenge: March 7
Tomb Raider Legend: April 11

There definately aren't the same number of games COMING out, but I'd say there's about the same number of good games out as the 360 this time last year. Super Paper Mario and Zelda I'd say approximately stack up to GRAW and Oblivion, no? And MP3 is coming out at nearly the same time as Dead Rising.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Is that really something people will run out and spend $50 on though? Nintendo needs to examine their pricing structure for some of the smaller games, like Big Brain Academy and Cooking Mama. If they were to put those out where they should be, say $30, they'd be much more successful.
I agree. The Wii has had more $30 games than any system ever. The problem is they cost $50, and seem to be taking forever to drop in price.

[Telefrog]

I really don't think sales of the Wii will die down anytime soon. In fact, I think it will still be the hot "toy" for this year's holiday season. Mostly, that's due to it still being a really cool novelty to non-gamers and a really fun family/party system. There's almost no way a parent can justify not getting one if their kid wants a Wii. Believe me, I know.

The attach rate for Wii games is just not that great and I don't think that will ever really improve. There's a very large segment of the Wii market that is perfectly happy playing Wii Sports and maybe a couple of other party games for the next five years. They may pick up Mario Galaxy or Zelda, but that's based on nostalgia and name recognition.

This isn't a bad thing at all. The Nintendo shareholders are making money so there won't be any complaints there.

[TheFlyingOrc]

The control scheme on the Wii is a great novelty to us hardcore gamers. So far, though, it looks like we're following the precedent set forth by the Gamecube. Not many worthy games will be available beyond the 1st party stuff.
I'd say it's already doing better than the Gamecube did in its first year. I seriously think that near-PS2 levels of 3rd party support are waiting in late 08-early 09.

[Draconis]

I agree. The Wii has had more $30 games than any system ever. The problem is they cost $50, and seem to be taking forever to drop in price.

Cooking Mama I think retailed for 40? 30? I don't remember. I know Metal Slug Anthology went relativley cheap.

But yeah overall I agree. Alot of the 30$ titles are selling for more then they should. Hopefully Resident Evil 4 for the Wii will set a new precedent. Though I highly doubt it.

Still....40$ compared to 60$....

[TheFlyingOrc]

I think the Wii is awesome. The actual hardware. The games? There are like 3 REAL games and the rest are bad ports and mini games collections. The gamecube at this point had better titles.
Goodness? What were those titles? At this point, the Gamecube had, I believe only Smash and Pikmin that were worth playing.

[Draconis]

Goodness? What were those titles? At this point, the Gamecube had, I believe only Smash and Pikmin that were worth playing.


Apparently to 'Hardcore' Gamers, only Mario Brothers, Zelda, and Metroid and Smash Brothers exist as 'REAL GAMES'.

Exaggeration? Maybe, but that is the view alot of gamers seem to Hold.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Cooking Mama I think retailed for 40? 30? I don't remember. I know Metal Slug Anthology went relativley cheap.

Cooking Mama is 50 bucks, no lie. I went in to buy it EXPECTING it to be a budget title, and it wasn't. I rented it instead.

[Draconis]

Cooking Mama is 50 bucks, no lie. I went in to buy it EXPECTING it to be a budget title, and it wasn't. I rented it instead.


~Twitch~ That's just messed up and Sad. I can't see Cooking Mama as anything BUT a 30$ budget Title. Period.

[Telefrog]

As an addendum to what I posted, the Wii will be the hot "toy" this season, and that's exactly how most mainstream consumers classify it. A toy. In fact, I've heard people at my office call the Wii the "Nintendo Bowling Thing" and mean it in all seriousness.

After Xmas '07, going into '08 is where I predict the Wii sales will start to gradually slow down. By Xmas '08, the Wii will still sell, but it won't be THE toy to get. 3rd party games (regardless of EA's "commitment") will still be spotty and consist mostly of gimmicky controls tacked onto either ports or budget-worthy titles. Nintendo games will still be the hallmark of quality, but we'll gradually see their support slow down as well once the furor calms.

At some point, I expect Wii Sports to be sold separately and no longer be included as a pack-in.

[Serapth]

~Twitch~ That's just messed up and Sad. I can't see Cooking Mama as anything BUT a 30$ budget Title. Period.


That is exactly the reason I have so few Wii games. There are a couple games I would be mildly interested in, but nothing in that case I would drop 60$ on. This goes back to why people consider Zelda's and Mario's A list games, but most others as meh. Zelda is WORTH 60$... cooking Momma, to many, aint.

[Serapth]

At some point, I expect Wii Sports to be sold separately and no longer be included as a pack-in.


That would be the worst move ever.

Point blank Wii Sports is selling the console to non gamers. The fact it takes advantage of the Wii controls and is instantly accessable is huge. But the fact people view the Wii as 279$ WITH a free game, makes the Wii more like a 220$ purchase to many.

My bet says, without Wii sports, Wii would have sold 1/4 of what it has.

[xcalibur]

the wii ... uses a controller that is basically incompatible with every traditional genre of gaming...

Please step away from the crack pipe, and remove your fanboi glasses.

The Wiimote not only is vastly superior for any genre whose primary aiming mechanic involves pointing (i.e FPS), but it also opens up the possibility to bring genres to consoles that to date have only really worked well on PC due to the lack of precision aiming/selection of a traditional gamepad (i.e. RTS, MMO. etc.)


-X

[Codicier]

Please step away from the crack pipe, and remove your fanboi glasses.

I thought we went over the Zeal thing already. :confused:

[JimmyDanger]

There is no Player's Choice for the DS that I've seen, though it did exist on the GBA. It's a trend I hope they don't continue with the Wii, but with it's absence on the DS, I'm not expecting to see it.

I've got the budget priced Konami Classics Castlevania Dawn Of Sorrow DS game . As for a budgeted GC like Players Choice line - the itouch generations promotion seems about as close as they got.

Wii Players Choice like budget price I can't see being too far off the horizon - Warioware, Excite Truck and Elebits could lead the charge.

[Telefrog]

That would be the worst move ever.

Point blank Wii Sports is selling the console to non gamers. The fact it takes advantage of the Wii controls and is instantly accessable is huge. But the fact people view the Wii as 279$ WITH a free game, makes the Wii more like a 220$ purchase to many.

My bet says, without Wii sports, Wii would have sold 1/4 of what it has.

I agree with you in every way. At some point Nintendo is going to realize that they are leaving a lot of money on the table by giving away the game that 90% of the Wii buyers want the console to play. All the pack-in copies out there have done their job. The word is out that the Wii Bowling Machine is super fun to play with the whole family. The people buying the Wii this Xmas don't need to be sold.

[TheFlyingOrc]

As an addendum to what I posted, the Wii will be the hot "toy" this season, and that's exactly how most mainstream consumers classify it. A toy. In fact, I've heard people at my office call the Wii the "Nintendo Bowling Thing" and mean it in all seriousness.

After Xmas '07, going into '08 is where I predict the Wii sales will start to gradually slow down. By Xmas '08, the Wii will still sell, but it won't be THE toy to get. 3rd party games (regardless of EA's "commitment") will still be spotty and consist mostly of gimmicky controls tacked onto either ports or budget-worthy titles. Nintendo games will still be the hallmark of quality, but we'll gradually see their support slow down as well once the furor calms.

Just like what happened with the PS2! After the Christmas where it was THE toy to get, and every Christmas after that, sales dropped off! Oh, wait...

Video games ARE toys. Some of them are big boy toys, but pretending that they aren't toys is just trying to feel more "mature" about your hobby where you sit in front of a TV hitting buttons.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I agree with you in every way. At some point Nintendo is going to realize that they are leaving a lot of money on the table by giving away the game that 90% of the Wii buyers want the console to play. All the pack-in copies out there have done their job. The word is out that the Wii Bowling Machine is super fun to play with the whole family. The people buying the Wii this Xmas don't need to be sold.
OH! I'm sorry. I didn't realize before this post that you were stupid. Now I know not to bother arguing with you.

[Telefrog]

OH! I'm sorry. I didn't realize before this post that you were stupid. Now I know not to bother arguing with you.

I didn't realize we were arguing, but I aim to please...

Fuck you! Fuck your mother and eat shit, you monkey-raping asshole!

Better? ;)

Seriously, though, what is it that upset you so in my earlier posts?

[Dukefrukem]

Would a coffee enema still deliver caffeine into your bloodstream?

Ask Robin Quivers.

[TDub301]

And there are a lot of games that are much better than Animal Crossing that make it to the Greatest Hits or Player's Choice lines. My point was that Nintendo has had great success with the DS, and hasn't lowered prices for it's more successful titles, even this far out from release. There is no Player's Choice for the DS that I've seen, though it did exist on the GBA. It's a trend I hope they don't continue with the Wii, but with it's absence on the DS, I'm not expecting to see it.

Animal Crossing is probably still selling well. Remember, Nintendo is always trying to make money, just like the other 2, all the same. They just make different decisions. But I think most games that become Player's Choice were popular, until they stopped selling as well, then they made them that way to coax more people into buying them. But if AC is still selling well at the current price point, why would they lower it? Just a theory, I really don't know, what you say does make sense, though.


Its not stealing marketshare, its creating marketshare where previously there was none. They are reaching people that they never had before.

That being said, it doesnt have much appeal to "hardcore" gamers. Yes you get your mario and zelda fans, but the fact that the Wii has sold as well as it has shows you how small a percentage of the population hardcore gamers are (including mario and zelda fans). What I mean, is that the Wii's sales wouldnt be nearly as high if it werent for "normal" people. Without them, it would be screwed.

And if it isnt careful, these normal people will stop buying games for their new toy. That is the biggest problem they have - they need to keep the impetus up.

I think the idea is to keep a steady flow of casual games coming out (isn't that the biggest hardcore gamers' complaint most of the time?) to keep the casuals. The hardcore, non-1st party games will take some time, but if the marketshare is high, they'll come. Companies will make games for whatever system they think they'll make the most money on, so it'll happen, just a matter of time. And hopefully, the process will produce more hardcore players and improve the life of the game industry in general.


After Xmas '07, going into '08 is where I predict the Wii sales will start to gradually slow down. By Xmas '08, the Wii will still sell, but it won't be THE toy to get. 3rd party games (regardless of EA's "commitment") will still be spotty and consist mostly of gimmicky controls tacked onto either ports or budget-worthy titles. Nintendo games will still be the hallmark of quality, but we'll gradually see their support slow down as well once the furor calms.

I'd like to believe that by then, developers will be familier enough with the system that they'll make controls that don't feel tacked on. And sales will have to drop off sooner or later, but the games will come and as games come, sales will stay consistently good.

[KSmitty]

The Wiimote not only is vastly superior for any genre whose primary aiming mechanic involves pointing (i.e FPS), but it also opens up the possibility to bring genres to consoles that to date have only really worked well on PC due to the lack of precision aiming/selection of a traditional gamepad (i.e. RTS, MMO. etc.)


-X
Please tell this to all your dev friends and the companies they work for. I would love to see a good RTS or Sim/Civ type games on the Wii.

Wii the best product ever? I really took that as hyperbole, like those Best Week EVER things you see on VH1.

[IRONGUSTAV]

txt spk idiot.

There is plenty to play on Wii but Sony fanboys like you would rather shill for them on messageboards than actually, you know, take the time to research.

thats how a fanboy talks

[IRONGUSTAV]

There definately aren't the same number of games COMING out, but I'd say there's about the same number of good games out as the 360 this time last year. Super Paper Mario and Zelda I'd say approximately stack up to GRAW and Oblivion, no? And MP3 is coming out at nearly the same time as Dead Rising.

but at least oblivion and graw where 360 bound games,not Gc ports :)

[Kamalot]

but at least oblivion and graw where 360 bound games,not Gc ports :)
Right. They weren't GC ports, they were PC ports.

[TheFlyingOrc]

but at least oblivion and graw where 360 bound games,not Gc ports :)
You always see this to some extent at the end of a lifecycle. Eternal Darkness was an N64 game - Kameo was originally a Gamecube game. However, in a shocking turn of events, you actually have a decent point. The Wii's existance did not make these games exist. However, they ARE two excellent Wii games.

[Chameleo]

i dont get what everyone loves about elebits!!?

its like, hide-and-seek, but you have to shoot those little elebit things one by one.... its so tedious!!

the only fun part is making a total mess. why can't i vacuum up those elebits; shooting them one at a time sucks.

and i can't break stuff? i mean, making a mess was the only fun part of the game, then they say i can't break anything? i have to carefully, and slowly look for elebits? bah!

i played it for about 30 mins before falling asleep.

[Watership]

Really? Let's count!

Pikmin, Melee, Luigi's Mansion, Star Wars.

Luigi's Mansion also was WAY too short. I don't think I could've payed more than the 10 bucks used I did. Great, but too short.

Now, let's contrast this with:


DBZ Tenkaichi 2, WiiSports, Resident Evil 4, Wario Ware (It is microgames, but this one is generally seen as worth buying, the rest being junk).

Other games that reviews varied on, but gamers seem to really enjoy, are Super Swing Golf, Excite Truck, Sonic, Godfather (Port, but very far from a bad one), SSX Blur...

Not including the likes of Big Brain Academy and Kororinpa, which are widely considered to be good, just not for the price (The games themselves however are good).

I'm sure I missed some good GC games, but there's no way you can tell me with a straight face that the Gamecube had more, and better, games at this point in time.

Mind you, I do admit, Melee going toe to toe with any single one of these games has Melee with the favor, but it's still just one game.

Ports, Mini games, and rushed "waggle" crap. You just proved my point. Super Paper Mario, Twilight Princess, Trauma Center. Those are the 3 games I own, and those are the only 3 good games on the system.

See these games?

Wave Race: Blue Storm
Luigi's Mansion <I liked it! Am I the only one?>
Super Monkey Ball
Star Wars Rogue Leader: Rogue Squadron II
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3
Super Smash Bros. Melee
Pikman
SSX Tricky

That's 8 games good release within the first launch month for Gamecube. 1 month.

I love the Wii, I just want developers to stop making mini games and really use the system. Show us what Red Steel should have been.

[TheFlyingOrc]

i dont get what everyone loves about elebits!!?

its like, hide-and-seek, but you have to shoot those little elebit things one by one.... its so tedious!!

the only fun part is making a total mess. why can't i vacuum up those elebits; shooting them one at a time sucks.

and i can't break stuff? i mean, making a mess was the only fun part of the game, then they say i can't break anything? i have to carefully, and slowly look for elebits? bah!

i played it for about 30 mins before falling asleep.
The game is Katamari without the style. A sequel with more style to it would be fantastic.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Wave Race: Blue Storm Excite Truck
Luigi's Mansion Elebits
Super Monkey Ball Super Monkey Ball
Star Wars Rogue Leader: Rogue Squadron II Godfather
Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3 Rayman
Super Smash Bros. Melee Zelda
Pikman Super Paper Mario
SSX Tricky SSX Blur

That's 8 games good release within the first launch month for Gamecube. 1 month.

And I didn't use Sonic, WarioWare, Wii Sports, Brain Training, Cooking Mama, Scarface, or Trauma Center, and SOME of us like Red Steel (the gun parts, not the sword parts). It hasn't been amazing, but it's certainly better than the gamecube.

edit: What "minigame" game is even on the release list somewhere?

[bean19]

But if the truth of the matter came around, I'd say I spend more time playing PS2 games on my PS3 then any of the systems. More games to play then all of the next gen consoles right now that interest me. I've bought too many games I need to catch up on.

Oh, and I'm not a fanboy. I just see things differently then others. I love playing on all of the systems. (I have way too many frigging consoles since the Original NES. Damn near ALL of them in existance )

You take any chance you can to give the 360 hell. Maybe you are more of a Microsoft-hater than a Wii-fanboy. Either way, most of us here who are more fans of games than systems don't understand your opinion.

[Draconis]

You take any chance you can to give the 360 hell. Maybe you are more of a Microsoft-hater than a Wii-fanboy. Either way, most of us here who are more fans of games than systems don't understand your opinion.


I have given the 360 hell because there is damned good reason to give it hell. I give my own 360 2 months at MOST before it's toast. It's already suffered the RROD 3 times but is somehow still ticking. How is beyond me. You have no idea how badly I want to rip that thing open and solder my own fixes into the board and add some heatsinks to insure it's survival.

Put simply, I rip on the 360 itself because MS deserves it. If you noticed, I also rip on Nintendo for their lame arsed half assed Online strategy. I also Rip on Sony and their Arrogance and lack of games. No one is free from my wrath console wise when they fuck up. NO ONE.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the games I have for the 360. It's just that alot of the other games that people have picked up for it, I could have on my PC. Also, there's a reason why I don't buy XBLA games. Because if my 360 Dies, and I know it will, I can NEVER play those purchased games again UNLESS I am logged into Xbox Live. PERIOD. Microsoft has NOT been cooperative in this instance whatsoever.

So if I appear to be a Wii Fanboy to you, then so be it. Color me that in your mind if you like. But know that I will just as quickly rip on Nintendo for a **** up as I will anyone else. Stupidty shall be rewarded with verbal smackdown plain and simple.

And EACH of the console makers have done their fair share of SHEER stupidity.

[Evil Avnovice]

It sounds like he just picked up a Wii today, and outside of his closing statement which I ignored, he likes the system.

[bean19]

Apparently to 'Hardcore' Gamers, only Mario Brothers, Zelda, and Metroid and Smash Brothers exist as 'REAL GAMES'.

Exaggeration? Maybe, but that is the view alot of gamers seem to Hold.

That's a bunch of crap. We've talked about how a lot of the experiences on the Wii are similar to a handheld game as they are really shallow, light affairs made for brief play sessions. They tend to be short and don't have much meat to them. Examples: Excite Truck, Trauma Center, Mario Party, Wario Ware, Rayman Raving Rabids, Big Brain Academy, Super Monkey Ball, Cooking Mama, Metal Slug Anthology, etc.

Now, you may not want to spend $60 on a game, but I guarantee that I got a lot more hours of enjoyment per dollar out of Oblivion than I got out of any of those game listed up there. Big, meaty games with lots to do and real stories instead of cute cartoons. Gamers might want to rent Rayman or Cooking Mama, but we want to OWN Crackdown, Saint's Row, Dead Rising, etc. etc. Hell, the Wii has two of these games right now in Zelda and Super Paper Mario. The complaint is not just that there aren't many games for the Wii; it's that if you don't want really light experiences and party games, then you really aren't going to get anything else on the Wii right now. . . (well, there is RE4, but I hope everyone reading this owns that already, if not then there are 3 meaty games on the Wii).

You act like you don't understand the criteria for what makes something a light, casual game comparable to handheld games and what makes it a meaty, fulfilling offering.

[Kamalot]

Now, you may not want to spend $60 on a game, but I guarantee that I got a lot more hours of enjoyment per dollar out of Oblivion than I got out of any of those game listed up there. Big, meaty games with lots to do and real stories instead of cute cartoons.

...

You act like you don't understand the criteria for what makes something a light, casual game comparable to handheld games and what makes it a meaty, fulfilling offering.
I've gotten more hours into both Animal Crossing and Pokemon than most people put into Oblivion. I don't know why you are equating simple graphics, cartoony characters, and handheld games with light and casual, cause they aren't mutually exclusive.

[Serapth]

I've gotten more hours into both Animal Crossing and Pokemon than most people put into Oblivion. I don't know why you are equating simple graphics, cartoony characters, and handheld games with light and casual, cause they aren't mutually exclusive.


You are citing one contrary example. There are tons of games like he describes on the Wii. Many of them direct ports from the DS.

[Kamalot]

You are citing one contrary example. There are tons of games like he describes on the Wii. Many of them direct ports from the DS.
Actually, I posted two examples.

My point is not to argue the origins of Wii titles, but to state that lengthy, substantial games can have cartoony graphics and cute characters.

[Serapth]

Actually, I posted two examples.

My point is not to argue the origins of Wii titles, but to state that lengthy, substantial games can have cartoony graphics and cute characters.


Is there a Wii Pokemon title? I didnt think there was, but its not my gig so...

[Kamalot]

Is there a Wii Pokemon title? I didnt think there was, but its not my gig so...
It appears you actually missed the words in my post, so I'll post them again.

My point is not to argue the origins of Wii titles, but to state that lengthy, substantial games can have cartoony graphics and cute characters.

[Serapth]

It appears you actually missed the words in my post, so I'll post them again.

My point is not to argue the origins of Wii titles, but to state that lengthy, substantial games can have cartoony graphics and cute characters.


Yes, but I am saying you are doing the same to Bean19. The cute characters comment of his was a throwaway bash. What he is talking about is big meaty games. Games of substance.

[Draconis]

~Throws down the Gauntlet~


That's a bunch of crap. We've talked about how a lot of the experiences on the Wii are similar to a handheld game as they are really shallow, light affairs made for brief play sessions. They tend to be short and don't have much meat to them. Examples: Excite Truck, Trauma Center, Mario Party, Wario Ware, Rayman Raving Rabids, Big Brain Academy, Super Monkey Ball, Cooking Mama, Metal Slug Anthology, etc.


Excite Truck: Don't have it. Awesome game. Our Opinion varies.
Trauma Center: Also an awesome game. Do have. Enjoy it massively.
Mario Party: Meh
Wario Ware: Mini Game. Fun to play, but don't play it Constantly
Rayman Raving Rabbids: Hilarious and made of awesome and Win. Play it and own it.
Big Brain Academy: Could frigging Care less
Monkey Ball: See above
Cooking Mama: See above
Metal Slug Anthology: ANYONE who disgraces the House of SNK and their relative awesomeness that was Metal Slug deserves to be drug out into the street and bludgeoned with FISH until they cry for mercy.



Now, you may not want to spend $60 on a game, but I guarantee that I got a lot more hours of enjoyment per dollar out of Oblivion than I got out of any of those game listed up there. Big, meaty games with lots to do and real stories instead of cute cartoons. Gamers might want to rent Rayman or Cooking Mama, but we want to OWN Crackdown, Saint's Row, Dead Rising, etc. etc. Hell, the Wii has two of these games right now in Zelda and Super Paper Mario. The complaint is not just that there aren't many games for the Wii; it's that if you don't want really light experiences and party games, then you really aren't going to get anything else on the Wii right now. . . (well, there is RE4, but I hope everyone reading this owns that already, if not then there are 3 meaty games on the Wii).


Oh Forgive me oh ALMIGHTY Master that I don't have 60$ to WASTE on a ton of crap games that *Gasp* A: I don't give a flying flip of a mackerel about and B: I can play on PC for LESS THEN 60 DOLLARS on the 360! (Shadowrun anyone?) Especially when my money is tight and I have to actually be selective about what I play and care about, WHEN I can afford games. You want to know why I don't own alot of 360 games? One of the reasons is the Damned COST!

Crackdown I have ZERO Interest in. Saint's Row again I could care LESS about. Rainbow Six games, again, I could give two craps about. Dead Rising I own and enjoy massively.

For your information, I own 90+ PC Cd Rom games. I own enough Console Games to give someone a Hernia just LOOKING at them for all the systems I have.

Forgive me for having a taste in actual GOOD games, that I myself selectivley choose to wisely spend my OWN money on, and enjoy, rather then lambasting it on wastrel crap I could give less of a rats arse about. You may Enjoy those games. You may label them as REAL Games. Guess what, not everyone shares your opinion. GET USED TO IT.


You act like you don't understand the criteria for what makes something a light, casual game comparable to handheld games and what makes it a meaty, fulfilling offering.

Example:

Oblivion: Definitley not a light casual game...you know how much I have played it? 30 Minutes. That's IT. I have it on my PC....I did the same with Morrowind. And I consider myself one of the HEAVIEST RPG Gamers in existance. The only individual who I will give that crown to higher then myself is Gorvi.


Our opinions vary. You don't like it? TOUGH. Get used to it and stop taking it as a personal affront to your fervent love of gaming. Because you are.


~Walks off to go take a couple of ant acids for the fiery heart burn after affect~

[Johan]

I don't think big and meaty is necessarily divorced from cartoony and cute.

Look at hentai! ;)

~Throws down the Gauntlet~

OUCH! Dude, that hit my toes! :D

[Draconis]

I don't think big and meaty is necessarily divorced from cartoony and cute.

Look at hentai! ;)

Okami Called. She wants to kick an morons head in.

(Not yours Johan)

[Kamalot]

Yes, but I am saying you are doing the same to Bean19. The cute characters comment of his was a throwaway bash. What he is talking about is big meaty games. Games of substance.
I'm pointing out that his statement about meaty substantial games requiring something other than cartoony graphics is downright wrong.

You act like you don't understand the criteria for what makes something a light, casual game comparable to handheld games and what makes it a meaty, fulfilling offering.
His statement is that Light, casual = handheld and that meaty, fulfilling <> handheld. That is also downright wrong.

Hell, you could say a fighting game is meant to be played in short bursts, therefore it is suited to handhelds and not home consoles. Fighting games don't offer fulfilling experiences since they are nothing more than a series of short games. I understand that the Wii does not have the kind of epic titles that some people want, but the argument and evidence as to WHY is lacking.

[Johan]

Okami Called. She wants to kick an morons head in.

(Not yours Johan)

Well, I was just screwing around, so I could probably use a moronic kick. ;)

[Draconis]

Well, I was just screwing around, so I could probably use a moronic kick. ;)

LOL nah man. No worries. Yer good.

[bean19]

I don't think big and meaty is necessarily divorced from cartoony and cute.

That's true. Conker, Viva Pinata, Ratchet & Clank, Mario games, Zelda, etc. etc.

Draconis - I wasn't assaulting your baby. I was trying to explain to you why people dislike the Wii's game librarby because they aren't interested in games that are short or that are designed for short play sessions.

If you think that these games are fantastic, then that's cool. That doesn't change other people's opinions though.

Short, casual games simply don't have what it takes to keep gamers occupied for very long, and while we may all really love playing through Rayman, most of us won't spend our money on owning games that are designed for short play sessions and that do not deliver a narrative.

I'm willing to discuss reasons why this is the case, if you think that I'm incorrect that these are the reasons why so many Wii owners do not find anything compelling to play right now, but I won't be baited into a silly console flame war.

My interest is in understanding the trends. I don't care which consoles are ultimately the most successful. I care about WHY console X is successful or console Y is not. So my interest in this subject is entirely different from yours. I'm sort of like a sports enthusiast that likes following the whole league and you are more like a fan of a certain team. This makes it difficult to have conversations with you and I think I'm going to stop trying.

[bean19]

His statement is that Light, casual = handheld and that meaty, fulfilling <> handheld. That is also downright wrong

"like those on a handheld" - a comparison to an example. . . there are meaty handheld games obviously, but it makes for an easy comparison.

Use your English. ;)

[bean19]

I'm pointing out that his statement about meaty substantial games requiring something other than cartoony graphics is downright wrong.

Oh, I agree totally. That was a mistake I made in that post because it wasn't what I was focused on. Sorry. Obviously there are a lot of cartoony games that are also meaty. . . I think I just said that because nearly all of my examples of really light, casual games are also cartoony. Bad logic and a mistake.

[Kamalot]

Oh, I agree totally. That was a mistake I made in that post because it wasn't what I was focused on. Sorry. Obviously there are a lot of cartoony games that are also meaty. . . I think I just said that because nearly all of my examples of really light, casual games are also cartoony. Bad logic and a mistake.
I didn't mean the explanation to get out of hand, but people kept going round and round on things. No worries man. I know you have a good head on your shoulders. :D

[Adam Blue]

Metal Slug Anthology: ANYONE who disgraces the House of SNK and their relative awesomeness that was Metal Slug deserves to be drug out into the street and bludgeoned with FISH until they cry for mercy.

As a fan of SNK and Metal Slug, I have to tell you that this was a terrible port, and I should never have to wiggle my controller to throw a grenade. And no classic controller support?

[EL CABONG]

I just got a Wii. I dig it alot. That being said the Wii gets way too much good press. It is not better than the 360 or a PC. Game reviewers all have a hard on for anything they precive as initative. In fact they all use that word way too much.

[MrSatan]

@easi
STFU you stupid prick. People have a right to their opinion and not once did he mention anything about playstation. Just go ahead and ASSUME EVERTHING like the misguided idiot you are.

back on topic. I agree that the Wii is an interesting enough idea, I just don't believe that the controller was the best route to go. Also Nintendo makes people pay way too much for old-school classics. There is many things wrong with the Wii and people do have problems qwith it. It is most definitely not the best product ever, but how often do you ever agree with these people's opinions.

[Disgustipated]

As a fan of SNK and Metal Slug, I have to tell you that this was a terrible port, and I should never have to wiggle my controller to throw a grenade. And no classic controller support?

Gamecube controller works fine.

[Chameleo]

yaaaay wii. i'm really enjoying RE4 and blazing angels. Also Sims Pets is the first console sims i've been able to tolerate since i first played the series on PC.

[Zeal]

it's funny to me that no one can argue the fact that wii still has no games. it's even more hilarious that my statement is fact and not a troll.

[Wasson_]

I don't have one...because I think it's gay and it's games have absolutely no appeal to me.

....My little nephews seem to like it though.

[Kamalot]

it's funny to me that no one can argue the fact that wii still has no games. it's even more hilarious that my statement is fact and not a troll.
I can argue it, but there's no point. You wouldn't listen anyway.

[Codicier]

it's funny to me that no one can argue the fact that wii still has no games. it's even more hilarious that my statement is fact and not a troll.

Or perhaps this post is a follow-up troll to the previous troll, just to fool people into thinking the first post wasn't a troll...

I am Sherlock fucking Holmes. :p

[Chameleo]

it's funny to me that no one can argue the fact that wii still has no games. it's even more hilarious that my statement is fact and not a troll.


hahahaha "man. myth. legend"?!

more like shit disturbing troll boy!

you keep posting hoping to get a rise out of a noob; but instead i'm just going to point and laugh at your idiocy.

<points and laughts>

[shnastybiznastic]

I don't have one...because I think it's gay
Classy. Can I have your internet baby? :rolleyes:

[Chameleo]

hey shnasty! thanks for the sig!

unless you're making fun of me... in that case...

<shakes fist>

[shnastybiznastic]

Oh, no! I have never read a statement that was truer. I mean, anyone who is willing to don the moniker "hardcore" fails to understand the dichotomous nature of gaming communities, the breadth and depth of their own understanding, and the lack of meaning the term has now.

In short, it sums up one of my pet peeve arguments in a single unobtrusive sentence.

[Chameleo]

Oh, no! I have never read a statement that was truer. I mean, anyone who is willing to don the moniker "hardcore" fails to understand the dichotomous nature of gaming communities, the breadth and depth of their own understanding, and the lack of meaning the term has now.

In short, it sums up one of my pet peeve arguments in a single unobtrusive sentence.

hahaha! yeah its funny that people fight over being "hardcore", when to be a "hardcore" gamer, it just means you are someone like ZEAL. hahahaha

[ferrarimanf355]

I like how this guy dismisses the Xbox 360's backwards compatibility. Did he even read the current list?

[TeeCakes]

I buy this claim. No other product can be as much of a 'quick fix' for a dysfunctional American nuclear family like the multi-tiered appeal of Wii, great for old grannies, young kids, and out-of-touch fathers everywhere! It's like peddling the American Dream, or hope itself, inside of a video game box! And you KNOW Oprah has one at home.

[easi]

Rise From Your Grave

[EL CABONG]

it's funny to me that no one can argue the fact that wii still has no games. it's even more hilarious that my statement is fact and not a troll.
I have a Wii. I like the Wii. It was hella fun for about a week. Your are right about the games. The Wii does get way too much good press and posts.

The Wii has some games comeing out that look really cool and should be alot of fun. Right now the games are lacking.