The problems with pro gaming

[F9Phoenix]

GGL (http://www.ggl.com/index.php?controller=News&method=article&id=5041) has a good, inside piece on the problems that currently plague the pro gaming scene:

The world of professional gaming is growing. But to say that it is really growing at a blistering pace would not be entirely correct. To say that gaming is stable would already be a plain lie. Why? Because the Benjamins set the course for gaming instead of letting things take their natural course ...

If you're wondering why it's not more popular than maybe it should be, then this piece sheds some interesting light on the topic.

[Adam Blue]

Ha. Reminds me of EA and C&C3 in the WGC. The game was bug-ridden, the top players were the only ones qualified(cheaters), and it left the rest of us behind. Now the patch is released that creates a game worth competing in. And while of course cheaters will get caught in the competition, they got there by cheating. And now it's a totally different game.

[Fonz]

The problem with pro gaming is the fact that games go through phases. Some of the pro gaming leagues still cling onto counter-strike 1.6. You cant base these leagues on one just game. And some other leagues base their tournaments on games that are not even out yet like World in Conflict for the CPL. You cant really get people excited about a tournament of a game no one has played before. For all we know WIC might be a mediocre RTS.

Yes I know theres a WIC beta out and EA reviewed it. Talking about the general population here though.

[Camel]

The real problem with pro gaming is that other people are getting paid to play video games and I am not. I think if that small problem can be solved then all would be right in the world.

[Tentaro]

If you're wondering why it's not more popular than maybe it should be, then this piece sheds some interesting light on the topic.

I always wonder the exact opposite.

[sprankton]

With all the changing games due to interest at the time and sponsors, its hard to get pro esports going. What makes regular pro sports so popular is because there is always going to be the same teams and the same game every season.

Esports is always changing and can be very hard to keep up with. To be honest for the upper level the only way to get it going is contracts and money. What made esports what it is today is CS and Quake III, due to the amount of life they both had at every event in the world and the money around it that brought back the teams to root for or players for that matter.

[ldi222]

This article completely ignores the console side of things where there are a few advantages such as a unified hardware set. USA Networks coverage of the MLG Pro was outstanding last season and is set to get even better this year. The writer never referenced the pro gaming scene in other countries like Korea either where this is already a proven national phenomenon. I envision a day when the Halo3 star on the High School team is the one fucking the cheerleader, not the quarterback.

[Goronmon]

I envision a day when the Halo3 star on the High School team is the one fucking the cheerleader, not the quarterback.Which will become much less appealing when you realize that the cheerleader is played by that weird, overweight guy who sits behind you in math class.

[Amalor]

That was a great article,and its dead on. There is waaay to much ad money sway the the way gaming is presented to the public today, I find G4 and spikeTV's portrail of gaming and gamers insulting. Not everyone is some ridiculous sex crazed fashion boy who swills mountain dew and spouts "L33t" and "Pwned" every few seconds of their buzz clip attention span. Why the fuck can't they just grow up and treat people like adults?

-Cheers
-Amalor

[Shodan2020]

Actually, the real problem with pro-gaming is that the people who become pros are usually total douchewads who you wouldn't want to play against in the first place.

[Glucose]

Actually, the real problem with pro-gaming is that the people who become pros are usually total douchewads who you wouldn't want to play against in the first place.

Hmm you could easily replace pro-gaming with pro-sports there :)

[Hagetaka]

The article seem a tad short-sighted, and really downplays the growth that happened in the world of "professional gaming". How many of your cities have been invaded by gaming centers that sponsor professional teams? I live in a tiny town, and just an hour away there are about four gaming centers.

On top of that, MLG has come a very, very long way since it began. Names like 'Grasshopper', 'Darkman', 'Zyos' etc, have all become immediately recognized names between many of my friends, as well as board members. The article did have one thing right, the sport is very young.

[LongStepMantis]

To me any chance pro-gaming had of seeming like a good idea went down the toilet when I read an article about the quake 3 guy, f4t4lity or w/e his name was. He won a bunch of tournaments, but in the interview, he was a complete douchebag.
He lived with his parents, acted like he was 5, and just happened to be good at quake. And the arrogance in his interview was maddening. He acted like he should be getting gatorade deals and have legions of hot women lusting after him. Too bad he was a total tool.

At one point, something happened and he started CRYING. And it wasn't for any understandable reason, I think it was that he LOST to someone. OMG! lol.

Guys like him are why no one will take pro-gaming seriously...they just see more whiny kids playing video games, and move on.

Note: If you play CPL or anything, don't act like a retard...do all the rest of us a favor. And maybe one day people WILL take it seriously.

[EvilBob46]

I envision a day when the Halo3 star on the High School team is the one fucking the cheerleader, not the quarterback.

Girls go for sports jocks because they're popular, yes, but also because they are generally in very good physical shape. The same could probably not be said about most couch potato pro-gamers.

[LongStepMantis]

Girls go for sports jocks because they're popular, yes, but also because they are generally in very good physical shape. The same could probably not be said about most couch potato pro-gamers.

Truth.
The only way the halo3 star thing will work, is if the quarterback is ALSO the halo3 star...sorry, but gamers aren't gonna be attracting chicks ANYTIME soon.

[ldi222]

Actually most pro gamers that Ive seen are in decent shape but it was more food for thought than flame bait to be defensive about when typing from your computer chair.

[Goronmon]

Actually most pro gamers that Ive seen are in decent shape but it was more food for thought than flame bait to be defensive about when typing from your computer chair.And you aren't being defensive?

[ldi222]

No, Im not the one mistakenly generalizing pro gamers as hard up fat asses or douchebags.

[Loganrapp]

No, Im not the one mistakenly generalizing pro gamers as hard up fat asses or douchebags.

Actually, no, you're getting defensive.

[beefyjr]

Which will become much less appealing when you realize that the cheerleader is played by that weird, overweight guy who sits behind you in math class.
As of my posting this, no one else acknowledged how awesome this is so I felt compelled to. Nice work.

[ldi222]

Im not going to go back and forth on this all day. If you "gamers" want to trash the growing pro gamer scene because of a few badly run CPL's go ahead, add to the stereotype you complain about in other threads. I will be following the MLG and other class pro gaming organizations as they continue to evolve our hobby and sport to unexpected levels over the decades to come.

Honestly I think a lot of the animosity at trashing the pro gaming scene and the gamers is because of jealousy or a feeling of ineptitude since *you* will never be good enough to be pro. BTW, I met Fatal1ty and he was a class act and a good role model for a pro gamer along with many others I follow in the MLG circuit.

[archon]

The CPL was the wannabe-PGL ever since its first appearance and it hasn't aged well. The MLG, as was mentioned above, is much better for pro gaming. I wish that the CPL had died and not the PGL.

[LongStepMantis]

Im not going to go back and forth on this all day. If you "gamers" want to trash the growing pro gamer scene because of a few badly run CPL's go ahead, add to the stereotype you complain about in other threads. I will be following the MLG and other class pro gaming organizations as they continue to evolve our hobby and sport to unexpected levels over the decades to come.

Honestly I think a lot of the animosity at trashing the pro gaming scene and the gamers is because of jealousy or a feeling of ineptitude since *you* will never be good enough to be pro. BTW, I met Fatal1ty and he was a class act and a good role model for a pro gamer along with many others I follow in the MLG circuit.

Being jealous of a pro GAMER is about as useful as being jealous of the world checkers champion. They're both games, both only for fun, and 99% of the population doesn't care about either. If you ever feel jealous become someone is better at a VIDEO GAME, grow up.

And as far as f4t4lity goes, i don't KNOW the guy. I just happened to read an article about what a whiny bitch he is. I never said i wrote it. :D

Besides, you're the only one who's actually upset about anything. I don't WANT it to fail, I'm just saying that the only press most people see, is gonna be the kind of articles i was just talking about. Welcome to the new media. Negativity sells.

[Drinking_Buddy]

Girls go for sports jocks because they're popular, yes, but also because they are generally in very good physical shape. The same could probably not be said about most couch potato pro-gamers.

Confidence is everything, but you should all know that.

I used to play UT2004 Onslaught in a clan and we did play competitively. That element added alot of fun to that game. We would spend hours going over maps and strategy and who should go where. It was alot of fun, Onslaught was one of those games where team work was far more important than individual skill. Then the CPL announced that they were going to have a tournament for Onslaught, which a purse just big enough to cover the trip down to texas and back. We were stocked and started making plans to go down. But then CPL changed there mind at the last minute and removed it. We never found out why, but there where rumors about the European clans and other big clans not liking Onslaught and threatened not to come. So it was switched for some team death match tournament.

Eversense then I have always thought that something holding esport back is the lack of teamwork based games. I mean in the multi-billion dollar sports teamwork is cruical. Expect golf, but thats the exception.

[TheDancinMan]

I'll be honest, I would love to play games in a compeitive manner. The problems is, as many have stated here, that most players are the same slang-spewing jackoffs that we all try avoid in the first place. Add that to the fact that many of these competitive communities are unorganizied as well, the experience is never that great as a whole. Still, it's something I'd love to try.

[Shodan2020]

To me any chance pro-gaming had of seeming like a good idea went down the toilet when I read an article about the quake 3 guy, f4t4lity or w/e his name was. He won a bunch of tournaments, but in the interview, he was a complete douchebag.
He lived with his parents, acted like he was 5, and just happened to be good at quake. And the arrogance in his interview was maddening. He acted like he should be getting gatorade deals and have legions of hot women lusting after him. Too bad he was a total tool.

At one point, something happened and he started CRYING. And it wasn't for any understandable reason, I think it was that he LOST to someone. OMG! lol.

Guys like him are why no one will take pro-gaming seriously...they just see more whiny kids playing video games, and move on.

Note: If you play CPL or anything, don't act like a retard...do all the rest of us a favor. And maybe one day people WILL take it seriously.

Yeah, I saw the exact same video and pretty much thought exactly the same thing.

[LongStepMantis]

I'll be honest, I would love to play games in a compeitive manner. The problems is, as many have stated here, that most players are the same slang-spewing jackoffs that we all try avoid in the first place. Add that to the fact that many of these competitive communities are unorganizied as well, the experience is never that great as a whole. Still, it's something I'd love to try.

The only problem I've ever run into personally was immaturity. It amazes me that SOME (not all) players can react so badly to something as simple as losing at a dam video game. Way back in the day, I went to a 3-man team CS tourney. I'm not saying my team was uber badass or anything, just that the others teams were slightly worse than us. That's all.

But they beautiful part is, in the semi's the team that we were gonna have to play in the finals (they allready won their match) was watching us play the other semi contender, and we spanked em....and the event organizer was on the team waiting to play the winners. After a few minutes, he disappeared, we won our match, and finals were supposed to happen in 10 minutes...so he promptly informs us that the CS section of the tourney was over. We were like "WTF, are you forfeiting?" he says "No...we're just done with that now."

It pissed me off, but w/e, there were a few other games being tourneyed, so we figured it was a time issue. We still got the winning prizes.

I found out from a guy on his team later that he canceled it because he knew we would win, and he didn't want to be BEATEN at his own event...last time i ever went to one.

[ElectricMonk]

The real problem with pro gaming is that other people are getting paid to play video games and I am not. I think if that small problem can be solved then all would be right in the world.

You could become a tester.

After all to be a pro-level gamer you have to take the fun out of the game anyway so why not just start there?

[Antdude]

It occurred to me reading about the cheating and games that go out of style, that no dev has made a game that really opened the possibilities of competitive play and e-sports to a wider audience. The exception seems to be Starcraft, which has gone on to a life much bigger than Blizzard ever imagined.

We've all seen how the game has inspired a TV show and a huge competitive following in Korea. Blizzard has already said that Starcraft 2 would really be geared for competitive play.

I'm wondering if perhaps with a re-launched Battle.net, and a solid game (or two), Blizzard might be trying to create a new gaming league that would succeed where the others haven't?

[LongStepMantis]

You could become a tester.

After all to be a pro-level gamer you have to take the fun out of the game anyway so why not just start there?

Just wanted to say, i know a game tester. And he claims that job has ruined games for him, forever.
So yea, it's not as glamorous a job as so many people seem to think.
If you just got to PLAY the game, it would be a blast.

His exact words were "Imagine you're playing super mario bros...now imagine you spend 4 hours on a single level, testing different jump angles, diving into pits repeatedly to make sure the code works right, and then when you finally clear the level...you do it for the next one...it's not fucking fun."

[XenonCJ]

Pro gaming is fucked because they don't know how to present it. It needs to be IN-GAME.

Quake 5 (or whatever) needs to operate like this:
As secure as possible like an MMORPG, your credit card is required to play.
Based on the stakes of the game you select, you gamble on your winnings.
You die, you lose money to pay the winners.
The people who win the most, win the most money.... 5% is sent to Blizzard or whoever...
People who win LOTS become the pros by default...

[ldi222]

http://www.usanetwork.com/sports/mlg/videos/index.html

This is how pro gaming should be covered.

Final Boss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mCrI7Zs9lc

[Mav]

Actually, the real problem with pro-gaming is that the people who become pros are usually total douchewads who you wouldn't want to play against in the first place.

Agreed. Most "pro" gamers are the guys who literally have no job. Their day to day routine (or "work" as they call it) is to practice whichever game they compete in. Look up some videos of fata1ty and others, they literally sit around and do nothing but play 8 or 10 hours of a game, each day. Memorizing maps by the pixel, memorizing weapon or item timing, etc

That's why I never considered FPS "pro" gaming to be really pro. It's a combination of memorizing maps, respawn times of items, and basically "twitch" reflexes. Whoever has the better reflexes, wins. Lag and frame rates don't matter, the big events are played side by side via LAN, so there's no lag and the computers are usually sponsored by the event hosters. There's no competition there, whoever has spent more time memorizing facts and has the best reflexes, which I don't consider a "skill", wins.

Now something that requires thought out strategies like RTS or even MMO pvp (where how you build your character counts) then yea there's strategy. Yes there are some reflex requiring things in both but it's not nearly as bad as most super fast paced FPS games (ala Quake or UT).

And people, before someone says "well if you don't think it's skill to do what they do in top level FPS competition, let's see you do it!", I say sure, I can.

Give me at least 8 free hours a day, virtually non stop, to sit infront a PC to study a game (this requires a bathroom near the PC, and someone to bring or cook food regularly). Give me a decent PC and really great broadband connection to use, since mine isn't all that great for most competitive FPS games. Give me a year or so to do this, 8+ hours a day, 365 days a year, 1 single FPS, all the competitive maps, I'll build up the reflexes easily. It's the same as athletes. Anyone can work out, practice, and probably end up doing a sport fairly well, with the proper learning and such. That's not really skill, it just means you have a ton of free time on your hands.

[ldi222]

That makes entirely no sense, what do other pro athletes do in their sport season? Work out and practice... wtf? PRO GAMING IMPLIES THAT PROFESSIONALS DO IT. Damn. I guess now Ray Lewis or Roger Federer are scrubs with no job because all they do is practice their sport and compete. My bad, since its a video game and the stereotype is that people that play video games are losers with no job that should equate to the pro level too.

[F3nyx]

The problem with pro gamers is that there's maybe a dozen of them outside of Korea. "Professional" means you do it for a living, making enough income from your profession to support yourself. It doesn't count if you're working a day job or mooching off your parents.

The wannabe/self-styled "pro" scene is flourishing, though!

[ldi222]

What really shocks me is that very few here are even slightly inclined to give the pro gaming scene (or the gamers themselves) any kind of props. Oh, Korea is soooo different and the scene grew there why? Maybe because it was a more open minded demographic that allowed the sport to grow, or none of them had jobs and live with their parents I dunno.

I thought of all places EA would be a place where gamers would get it instead of trashing something that is an inveitable growth of our hobby. Yes, its a young mans game, and we didn't get to play on a pro league in High School (they still dont exist yet, all those Jack Thompson perceptions probably don't help), but calling these people no talent losers who mooch or don't work, are fat asses on the couch or snot nosed douchbags is just sad. This probably coming from the same people that would like more of the general population to understand the depth of what they enjoy to do so much and appreciate the talent it takes when you are skilled at a certain game.

[ElectricMonk]

http://www.usanetwork.com/sports/mlg/videos/index.html

This is how pro gaming should be covered.

Final Boss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mCrI7Zs9lc

Yeah I have to agree.. I was rather interested in the game and I don't play halo dm. Those guys are sick players and it must be a completely different game when you're that good.

[OrangePulp]

I'm surprised no one has brought this up yet (or maybe I just missed it), so I'll say it: Pro gaming really just isn't as interesting as pro sports, IMO. Personally, I'd say it's boring. I think one of the reason sports are entertaining to watch is because it's not easy to just go play them. You may not be very close to an adequate facility, or you can't get enough people together, maybe you don't want to get injured, or maybe you're just not in good enough physical shape. As compared to gaming, where you could watch these guys play a game (albeit a lot better than you could probably manage), or you could go play that game yourself.

I can understand watching the occasional RTS match or what have you; A game where you can really get a feel for the players' strategic abilities. But games like FPS usually come down to reaction times and memorization, which I don't think is that entertaining, unless you're the one doing it.

[Lactose]

You seriously thing pro tennis is popular because its hard to go play tennis? Wtf?

If a FPS is less entertaining to watch its due to technology being in its relative infancy. It's not as visually interesting to zoom in on some quake model as it is to see a pitcher hurl a ball at 100mph.

I don't think Starcraft is inherently more watchable than an FPS either. The most fun games to watch are probably fighting games, because they keep both players on screen at all times and the players confront each other very frequently.

Watching a guy run around tunnels for awhile picking up items and exerting excellent map control is a complete bore to watch, and the occasional superb headshot isn't really enough to make up for it, pacing wise.

I had barely played SF3 before I saw this vid and it was still amazingly exciting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB9XmvyVAsM

That's way more exciting to watch than anything I've watched in an FPS or RTS.

[Narcissus]

Lot of narrow-minded stereotyping in this thread. I'd say that's pro-gaming's biggest hurdle.

The ironic thing is, the general population imagines gamers (everyone in this thread, I assume) as the overweight losers you believe pro-gamers to be. You should know better.

[archon]

Agreed. Most "pro" gamers are the guys who literally have no job. Their day to day routine (or "work" as they call it) is to practice whichever game they compete in. Look up some videos of fata1ty and others, they literally sit around and do nothing but play 8 or 10 hours of a game, each day. Memorizing maps by the pixel, memorizing weapon or item timing, etc

"Most" pro gamers go to school at the same time as playing at the pro level. It's just the same as any other shit job they'd have in terms of pay at that age, just way cooler. The captain of the best pro Halo 2 team has his own business, as do other pro players.

[Ilikecapcom]

Pro Gaming for all!! --->> http://www.evo2k.com/

But yea, games change around to much to be stable. It's a tough thing.

[Schnoogs]

The problem with Pro-Gaming is that its a totally worthless profession since it has little to no spectactor value.

[Shodan2020]

You seriously thing pro tennis is popular because its hard to go play tennis? Wtf?

If a FPS is less entertaining to watch its due to technology being in its relative infancy. It's not as visually interesting to zoom in on some quake model as it is to see a pitcher hurl a ball at 100mph.

I don't think Starcraft is inherently more watchable than an FPS either. The most fun games to watch are probably fighting games, because they keep both players on screen at all times and the players confront each other very frequently.

Watching a guy run around tunnels for awhile picking up items and exerting excellent map control is a complete bore to watch, and the occasional superb headshot isn't really enough to make up for it, pacing wise.

I had barely played SF3 before I saw this vid and it was still amazingly exciting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB9XmvyVAsM

That's way more exciting to watch than anything I've watched in an FPS or RTS.

Yeah, fighter battles can get pretty exciting.

Especially Virtua Fighter ones in Japan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss97vgUSSAw

[randir14]

It's not popular because watching other people play a video game is boring.

[jordanlund]

I remember watching a Halo (or was it Halo 2?) "professional" tournament and the "winner" was a spawn camper. No wonder it's not catching on.

[Zeal]

The very fact that no two games are the same makes the entire concept of 'professional' gaming retarded.

[Rirath]

If you're wondering why it's not more popular than maybe it should be

I have to wonder why anyone cares about "pro" gaming at all. Tournaments can be fun, in person. "Pro" gaming or gaming on TV captures none of that fun, to me. I agree with Schnoogs, it has absolutely no spectator value, despite all the efforts in adding movie saving, "tv" modes, etc.

[digitalErich]

I'd rather play games than watch them. Sure, I'll watch the occationaly demo or highlight real, but watching other people play videogames for more than a few minutes holds no interest for me, no matter how good they are.

Much like baseball, I'm sure my interest would go up if I were at one of these events, but that is more due to the general energy of competition and not the watching of videogames. Then again, I don't think I'd ever make an active effort to go to a live event.

[Dr.Acula]

The real problem with pro gaming is that the only was to really appreciate a competitive match is to have an underlying understanding of the mechanics of the game.

For instance, even my grandmother can tell LeBron James running past 3 defenders, flying twelve feet through the air, and making a backwards lay-up is an impressive physical feat. Any person can understand that that play was very difficult to execute, and that a person must be phenomenally dedicated to their sport in order to make such a play.

On the other side, if my grandmother watches someone play Counterstrike, she's got no clue what's going on. I don't play CS too much myself, and one of my buddies who's really into watching pro matches showed me some videos, and I honestly couldn't tell the difference between an orginised match and an public server. Two people run around a corner, one of them drops with a headshot. Whatever.

[Mav]

The problem with Pro-Gaming is that its a totally worthless profession since it has little to no spectactor value.


It depends on the game. I love watching Starcraft pro's go at it, watching Slayer_Boxer go up against Yellow_ and others is a sight to see. Watching socrates go up against cooller in Q3 is some intense balls to the walls action that I only wish I could see on a big screen with surround sound.

It really depends on the game and the viewer. I'm not a Halo player, or fan. So watching Halo matches, aren't fun for me. Watching Quake, UT, Starcraft, 2D fighters, etc can be quite entertaining as a spectator

[digitalErich]

The real problem with pro gaming is that the only was to really appreciate a competitive match is to have an underlying understanding of the mechanics of the game.
Good observation, I must say.

[Shjinta]

Just wanted to say, i know a game tester. And he claims that job has ruined games for him, forever.
So yea, it's not as glamorous a job as so many people seem to think.
If you just got to PLAY the game, it would be a blast.

His exact words were "Imagine you're playing super mario bros...now imagine you spend 4 hours on a single level, testing different jump angles, diving into pits repeatedly to make sure the code works right, and then when you finally clear the level...you do it for the next one...it's not fucking fun."


I've been in the QA field for over five years. Yeah thats about right. The people who think its a dream job never last more than a week lol.

[F3nyx]

God damn, if you're going to bump a week-old news thread, you'd better be posting something worth reading.





Like a suicide note.