Halo 3 Graphics will be "teh better"

[bapenguin]

Better than what? Well better than the beta version. At least, according to Next-Gen (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5789&Itemid=2) and Bungie's Frank O'Conner.He added that there would be some changes in the months ahead and that the game has not been seen in its complete form, “We have a long time to polish and iterate on the largely complete game at this point. We’ll be working on some big ticket items as well as making sure that the little details, like decorators and shaders are all in place. Lighting and atmospherics are going to be big keystones in our look and feel, and those really haven’t been shown except in multiplayer to this point.

It makes sense that the multiplayer maps aren't the most detailed, object filled scenes in the game. But what the game really needs is some AA, and hopefully we won't be seeing all those jaggies!

[Johan]

I am truly skeptical that there will be substantial changes between now and the release in Sept.

All I care about is that, when it releases, it's fun. I don't really care if it looks similar to Halo 2 or not. Big deal. If it's a fun game, the rest is tangential.

[bapenguin]

I am truly skeptical that there will be substantial changes between now and the release in Sept.

There doesn't need to be substantial changes. A few minor touches here and there and it would clean up quite a bit. If you read the article he says why there won't be any revolutionary change. They NEED to keep the same graphical style as the previous games, sequel graphics always (or usually) need to be iterative. Especially if it's going to continue the same narrative.

[Klunka]

HALO is as mainstream a series as Madden. So my question is, how much of it's fanbase will actually notice the little nuances? All of us arguing over the internet about how it looks make up what, 25-30% of the people who will play it.

[Johan]

There doesn't need to be substantial changes. A few minor touches here and there and it would clean up quite a bit. If you read the article he says why there won't be any revolutionary change.

He also said:

“We have a long time to polish and iterate on the largely complete game at this point. We’ll be working on some big ticket items

A long time? To work on big ticket items?

I'm no developer, but they've got what...three months? They need some time to print/package/ship the thing to retail, so give them a few weeks for that, leaving three months.

Is he responding to disappointment over the beta? Because that's the impression I got.

And, as I said before, as long as the game is fun, I don't really care if it's indistinguishable from Halo 2. Big deal.

[Ancalagon]

I dont work on big projects like that, but I remember reading when it comes to crunch time they tend to focus on big noticeable things, and smaller things get pushed aside.

I dont work in games, I just remember reading that in an interview with a developer.

[Mista Mafiosi]

I like the different animations on different elevations-but then again, who looks at the models.

[Emabulator]

There doesn't need to be substantial changes. A few minor touches here and there and it would clean up quite a bit. If you read the article he says why there won't be any revolutionary change. They NEED to keep the same graphical style as the previous games, sequel graphics always (or usually) need to be iterative. Especially if it's going to continue the same narrative.I agree and I'm with you on your previous comment.

High res textures and 4xAA would go a long way. Jaggies are much more noticable than upping particle counts and incremental whiz bang lighting effects.

[Yeti2005]

The game is damn fun to play even in Beta form now. I haven't noticed the jaggies (I'm sure they're there but honestly I've been too busy tearing around the maps). I'm not going to complain if it looks better in the final version but I don't want them to increase the graphic polish at the expense of framerate. Its buttery smooth right now.

[jacktion]

HALO is as mainstream a series as Madden. So my question is, how much of it's fanbase will actually notice the little nuances? All of us arguing over the internet about how it looks make up what, 25-30% of the people who will play it.

I think you might overestimate the internet gaming arguer base. Or underestimate the sales of Halo 3.
I'd say the figure stood more at about 1 to 2%.

[GR1F1TH]

from their vid-doc it sounded like the Big Ticket Items where things like the Game Save feature had a lot needed ironed out and the glitches in the Beta (like the bubble shield not showing) as another Big ticket item. I for one like the graphics and if any one item is included on that "list of stuff we're not suppose to know about" comes true.... I'll be quite content. 4 player campaign co-op FTW!

[Vandenh]

There is nothing wrong with the look.. game looks great and plays great. Nuff said.

[Itchyeyes]

A long time? To work on big ticket items?

I'm no developer, but they've got what...three months? They need some time to print/package/ship the thing to retail, so give them a few weeks for that, leaving three months.
You're assuming that they're just now starting on it. I find that unlikely. They were showing glimpses of the Beta to journalists back in November that were pretty much identical to what is out there now. I doubt they've just been sitting on their hands for the past 7 months. Also, you're assuming that they wouldn't start polishing the SP graphics until the MP was complete when, in all likelihood, they've been working on the two portions of the game in tandem.

[atariv8]

Has anyone actually seen the Halo 3 campaign in order to justify any graphic gripes? I don't recall being wowed by the multiplayer maps in the other Halo games. I guess this is what happens when a company tries to improve their product by releasing a public beta...

[Rune_74]

atariv8 thanks for the voice of reason there...couldn't have said it better myself....one thing with microsoft games is they generally look better as they go not worse thats sony's game.

[SPBTooL]

...They NEED to keep the same graphical style as the previous games, sequel graphics always (or usually) need to be iterative. Especially if it's going to continue the same narrative.QFT
A perfect example is Sarcraft II. Could that have looked any more like the original yet totally new and improved? What do you think the reaction would have been if the look of it was still like the Starcraft teaser at the end of war 3?

[Schnoogs]

99% of 360 games need AA....I'm not gonna hold my breath

[roboninja]

atariv8 thanks for the voice of reason there...couldn't have said it better myself....one thing with microsoft games is they generally look better as they go not worse thats sony's game.
Dude, don;t make us get out the MDF paddle and give your behind a swatting.

[Mdot23]

All I know is that I'd rather play the Beta than 95% of the full version games out there. Keep the graphics how they are now for all I care. I still can't wait to play the campaign and the full multiplayer.

[antoniogaud]

There doesn't need to be substantial changes. A few minor touches here and there and it would clean up quite a bit. If you read the article he says why there won't be any revolutionary change. They NEED to keep the same graphical style as the previous games, sequel graphics always (or usually) need to be iterative. Especially if it's going to continue the same narrative.

Babe, I love you man.. but that reply was a MAJOR COP OUT. Narratives and looks don't have a thing to do with each other. I can cite many examples, but it should be obvious even without them.

If t he MS team can improve the graphics they should. Months back they bragged about how Halo3 would be the end-all be-all showpiece for the X360 and - and although I love Halo3's beta - it is hardly a graphical showpiece. Gears is far and away still the best.

Oddly enough, Forza2 - which I am getting today - also suffers from the 'sequel-itis' look, hardly improving on Forza1's graphics except for the 60fps...

I don't like where this is going.

Also, if the recent slate of PS3 60fps games (Warhawk, Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted) are any indication, programmers are coming to grips with the PS3 which could spell trouble in MS land.

[Schnoogs]

Babe, I love you man.. but that reply was a MAJOR COP OUT. Narratives and looks don't have a thing to do with each other. I can cite many examples, but it should be obvious even without them.

If t he MS team can improve the graphics they should. Months back they bragged about how Halo3 would be the end-all be-all showpiece for the X360 and - and although I love Halo3's beta - it is hardly a graphical showpiece. Gears is far and away still the best.

Oddly enough, Forza2 - which I am getting today - also suffers from the 'sequel-itis' look, hardly improving on Forza1's graphics except for the 60fps...

I don't like where this is going.

Also, if the recent slate of PS3 60fps games (Warhawk, Ratchet and Clank, Uncharted) are any indication, programmers are coming to grips with the PS3 which could spell trouble in MS land.

Only a dumbass would buy the game solely on the graphics....

[Vandenh]

Gears is far and away still the best.

Gears has a draw distance of 20 meters... Halo 3 has one of 500 meters and a lot more stuff going on. Seeing the Halo 3 engine in action I am quite confident that it will handle very impressive stuff. It all depends on how Bungie designed the levels. If they are all gigantic landscapes then I expect the game to look quite similar to Beta. If it has indoor stuff and smaller, mainly designed to limit the view distance, levels then it will be able to handle very similar levels of detail to Gears. Also the focus on the Halo 3 engine is a bit different. Dynamic lights are indeed a much bigger thing than Gears. the Gears engine was a marvel of bump-mapping realism and close quarter encounters. The Halo 3 engine will have better lights, more dynamic interactions and more stuff going on on screen. IMHO ofc.

In games/software design there always is a trade off. You gain one thing a lose another. Draw distance vs detail, framerate vs detail, more items on screen vs detail etc... Some of you people need to look a bit closer at games instead of the screenshots.

[Schnoogs]

Gears has a draw distance of 20 meters... Halo 3 has one of 500 meters and a lot more stuff going on. Seeing the Halo 3 engine in action I am quite confident that it will handle very impressive stuff. It all depends on how Bungie designed the levels. If they are all gigantic landscapes then I expect the game to look quite similar to Beta. If it has indoor stuff and smaller, especially designed to limit the viewdistance, levels then it will be able to handle very similar levels of detail to Gears. Also the focus on the Halo 3 engine is a bit different. Dynamic lights are indeed a much bigger thing than Gears. the Gears engine was a marvel of bump-mapping realism and close quarter encounters. The Halo 3 engine will have better lights, more dynamic interactions and more stuff going on on screen. IMHO ofc.

quoted for truth....in the end Gears was pretty "meh" despite those flashy graphics.

[Vandenh]

quoted for truth....in the end Gears was pretty "meh" despite those flashy graphics.

Errr... I don't agree. Gears was a brilliant designed game with an optimized engine for what it was supposed to do. Loved every second of it. I believe Halo 3 has an engine optimized for what Bungie wants to do... and that is more "broad" then Gears.

BTW may I point at the absolutely amazing Crackdown engine. My jaw drops to the floor everytime I see that in action... yet most of you would bitch about the graphics no?

[TheFlyingOrc]

and although I love Halo3's beta - it is hardly a graphical showpiece. Gears is far and away still the best.

I just don't get why this surprises people. EPIC GAMES IS THE BEST COMPANY FOR GRAPHICS ON THE PLANET. They have devoted their resources to being a graphical engine company first, and a software company second. Anyone who expected Bungie (who doesn't really have a graphical pedigree - but simply had the most high-powered system last gen) to one up Epic is fooling themselves.

[Schnoogs]

Errr... I don't agree. Gears was a brilliant designed game with an optimized engine for what it was supposed to do. Loved every second of it. I believe Halo 3 has an engine optimized for what Bungie wants to do... and that is more "broad" then Gears.

BTW may I point at the absolutely amazing Crackdown engine. My jaw drops to the floor everytime I see that in action... yet most of you would bitch about the graphics no?

Gears was pretty boring in the end....I played through it once and there wasnt much to it other than killer graphics.

Crackdown was far more enjoyable to me despite not having the very best in graphics...gameplay will always trump graphics

[Xerxes]

BTW may I point at the absolutely amazing Crackdown engine. My jaw drops to the floor everytime I see that in action... yet most of you would bitch about the graphics no?
How can you argue with crackdown's graphics. It's cartoony. It's the art direction to be comic bookish. And it's damn good comic bookish. :confused:

[agentgray]

My guess is more lens flares, shinier armor, and lots of bloom effects.

[TheFlyingOrc]

My guess is more lens flares, shinier armor, and lots of bloom effects.
If they really want to make it next-gen, everything will be brown AND covered in Bloom.

[Hexxagonal]

just look at the screenshots that were released. there is WAYY more lighting effects and shadowing in them. it will look better, but it will never look like gears. two completely different art styles. halo is more open and bigger.

[phantomhitman]

I'm no developer, but they've got what...three months? They need some time to print/package/ship the thing to retail, so give them a few weeks for that, leaving three months.
That stuff has been taken care of, the only left to do to ship a game is duplicate the discs which takes only a few days. So they have about 2-2.5 months to polish the turd.

[antoniogaud]

Only a dumbass would buy the game solely on the graphics....

Yeah, thats what I said didn't I?

I never claimed anyone would or wouldn't buy a game solely based on graphics, but only a dumbass wouldn't admit that graphics were HUGELY important when considering a game purchase.

[Metal Jesus]

Gamers should really worry about oh....GAMEPLAY first and foremost. Graphics do not make a game great.

[antoniogaud]

Who said graphics make a game great?

You guys are just making up your own points to argue against.

[Mista Mafiosi]

hence the crackdown comment-great gameplay and the developers gave the consumers what they wanted.. keys to the city. Seriously, co-op on this monster is a beast, even playing with someone in AU I could run a lagless game.

[roboninja]

I just don't get why this surprises people. EPIC GAMES IS THE BEST COMPANY FOR GRAPHICS ON THE PLANET. They have devoted their resources to being a graphical engine company first, and a software company second. Anyone who expected Bungie (who doesn't really have a graphical pedigree - but simply had the most high-powered system last gen) to one up Epic is fooling themselves.
QFT. The Unreal Engine 3 seems to be being used by more and more games, and is being used for a good reason.

[KingGorilla]

But will it have partial nudity?

[Johan]

But will it have partial nudity?

It will in my house! ;)

/ewwwww....

[Adam Blue]

HALO is as mainstream a series as Madden. So my question is, how much of it's fanbase will actually notice the little nuances? All of us arguing over the internet about how it looks make up what, 25-30% of the people who will play it.

I didn't read the rest of the posts, I stopped here. I would never say that about Halo. Madden's at a caliber of garbage that only EA could iterate.

[Dag-Sabot]

Im thankful for halo 3, and cannot wait for its release if only for its douche sponging properties.

[TrackZero]

I'm no developer, but they've got what...three months? They need some time to print/package/ship the thing to retail, so give them a few weeks for that, leaving three months.


Well, let's do the math. Release date is 9/25 so, that's 3 months and 3 weeks. Considering they're most likely finished up on the single player and are now just able to spend time polishing and doing extra art assets, seems just about right.

[KingGorilla]

I cannot wait to see how many polys they manage to get onto those gray walls.

[GringoFrenzy]

Anyone considered that apart from dozens of other reasons, Bungie might have held back on the GFX to keep downloads at 1Gb?
Shaders and lighting information might not take up much space, but textures and models do.

Probably not a primary concern, but it's feasible.

On a personal note, I'd be perfectly happy if the final game was released in it's current graphical state. The models are all perfectly detailed enough (lets face it, the spartan armour is pretty much just a bunch of boxes), and the textures aren't shabby.
You can't tell me the water in Valhalla isn't the best you've seen in a game yet.

[Mista Mafiosi]

I'm not really worried about the graphics. But it'd be nice if they added a tad bit more control on the mobiles... maybe add fins or something that helps when you get air. Half the time I get off the ground I end up flipped over.

[Roc Ingersol]

I'd be far more disappointed in halo3 if the campaign sucked, than if the graphics didn't get another pass. Just throw some AA on it and make it fun.

[Arthen]

HALO is as mainstream a series as Madden. So my question is, how much of it's fanbase will actually notice the little nuances? All of us arguing over the internet about how it looks make up what, 25-30% of the people who will play it.


2-5% - the people on this forum are the HUGE minority

[Arthen]

I'd be far more disappointed in halo3 if the campaign sucked, than if the graphics didn't get another pass. Just throw some AA on it and make it fun.

yep, if its pretty and the story sucks I'll be quite pissed.

[TrackZero]

I'm not really worried about the graphics. But it'd be nice if they added a tad bit more control on the mobiles... maybe add fins or something that helps when you get air. Half the time I get off the ground I end up flipped over.

Then you don't know how to properly drive the Ghost. ;)

[Zanzibar]

Meh, I still say they've disabled the pixel shaders for the Beta. They're still finding the right 'recipe' to balance framerate with atmosphere effects, and antialiasing is taken into those calculations, so they just turned the whole shebang off for the Beta to ensure the best possible framerate. The engine programmers will come up with a system that gets the most bang for the buck. This kind of fine-tuning of framerate and atmosphere ALWAYS happens during the last few months, as the engine guys have finished most of the code and instead work on finding shortcuts to trim draw times.

BTW, the Beta kicks ass.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Who said graphics make a game great?

You guys are just making up your own points to argue against.
It's called a strawman argument. It's the only logical fallacy the internet can ever remember.

[Thenetcase]

In related news, Jack Thompson sues Microsoft, alleging that they are making HALO 3 "even MORE graphically violent!"

[Manzy]

I don't think graphics matter that much for multiplayer, just look at some of the best multiplayer games: Counter Strike, Starcraft, etc.

They lasted for well beyond their time and they look like shit compared to everything else. Graphics in multiplayer really doesn't matter, I don't think. What I hope they improve, regardless of graphics in single player, is that damn symmetrical map design.

[GameFlood Nathan]

Every time I hear news about Halo 3, it makes me pine for my old friends from school and our copy of Goldeneye.

[Loki_09]

I don't think graphics matter that much for multiplayer, just look at some of the best multiplayer games: Counter Strike, Starcraft, etc.

They lasted for well beyond their time and they look like shit compared to everything else. Graphics in multiplayer really doesn't matter, I don't think. What I hope they improve, regardless of graphics in single player, is that damn symmetrical map design.

I've been thinking about this a little. If you look back when CS and SC came out, they both had great graphics for their times. They're still badass because people got hooked on them. I guess my point is, yes, the gameplay makes a multiplayer game, but the graphics are usually the initial lure. In a series like Halo, however, graphics will play a much lesser role as the fan base is already there.

[GreenIce]

I've been thinking about this a little. If you look back when CS and SC came out, they both had great graphics for their times. They're still badass because people got hooked on them. I guess my point is, yes, the gameplay makes a multiplayer game, but the graphics are usually the initial lure. In a series like Halo, however, graphics will play a much lesser role as the fan base is already there.

Q3 arena and UT, both of which were contemporaries of CS looked FAR better than it, as they should have since one was a mod and two were major productions. You have to remember that the CS models now were not those of yesteryear, and I want to say didn't come in until about February 2001 (going off my memories of 8th grade here), and were much better done. If anything CS had visual appeal simply because 3d card adoption was in such an early stage that seeing a clean 3d fps was enough for people to be happy.

Though I do think it was far more game play, the ability to customize the game experience, and most of all timing that made CS take off the way it did.

[alleycatsphinx]

This game is like a first girlfriend for so many. Despite the truth, she's still beautiful to you.

(just not the rest of us)

[MrSatan]

There doesn't need to be substantial changes. A few minor touches here and there and it would clean up quite a bit. If you read the article he says why there won't be any revolutionary change. They NEED to keep the same graphical style as the previous games, sequel graphics always (or usually) need to be iterative. Especially if it's going to continue the same narrative.

I completely disagree with you. In order to keep a series fresh they need to change it up every couple of games. Changing the style a bit won't drastically damage the narrative. Look at games like Metal Gear Solid, which really changed the style for the 3rd and 4th iterations. Think of how awesome Halo would be if they changed it a bit to be more gritty and realistic for this one. People aren't saying that the game isn't fun, its just that they expected more. For a huge push into next-gen, this game really doesn't feel that way. I expected more from Bungie's endless money pit.

[GameFlood Nathan]

Halo is like a first girlfriend for so many. Despite the truth, she's still beautiful to you.

Just to let you know, I am blatantly stealing this for my sig. :D

[Tyler Durden84]

i for one will not be buying Halo 3. Im tired of hearing about how this game will be so great, after how much i hated halo 2. The single player was bad. the story was lame. the only thing that was worth anything was the multiplayer, and im being generous. this game gets so much unneeded attention, its ridiculous. i alos had to laugh when Bungie released the details of what the X button would do in Halo 3. i would hope it does something. they act like they are doing people a favor by releasing details and little snippets of the game. bah, im so tired of talking about it.

[Tyler Durden84]

addendum:

hearing about this game and how many people play it, is like hearing about some frat guy's party over the weekend. all the details they release are equivalent of hearing how much people drank and what kinds of drinks they had.
so while im playing a good game like say LOZ: TT or Okami, i just laugh at all those suckers.

[MrSatan]

The hype surrounding this game is amazing. I can't wait to see if it can really live up to it, lets see the amazing single player graphics Bungie. Oh and also, no one wants to play as the covenant, especially when the story is jarringly told and segmented.

Bungie needs to develop the plot more in this one as well. Since the series is generic
scifi, it really needs to distinguish itself even more. This game is gonna really hinge on a solid story mode.

I for one believe a Halo movie should never be made. At least not until they reveal more info about Master Chief. I don't see how you can have a movie with such a no-personality character as him. Could you imagine if they made the movie and had Master Chief take off his helmet and it turns out to be: "Paulie Shore". I mean hell, they could throw anybody in the suit and say its Master Chief as long as the guy doesn't weight 400 pounds and isn't Mao Ying tall.

Sorry but the Halo "story" is weak and generic, I'm just hoping to hell Bungie makes the Chief more into a man then a machine.

[Abash Alarmist]

I completely disagree with you. In order to keep a series fresh they need to change it up every couple of games. Changing the style a bit won't drastically damage the narrative. Look at games like Metal Gear Solid, which really changed the style for the 3rd and 4th iterations. Think of how awesome Halo would be if they changed it a bit to be more gritty and realistic for this one. People aren't saying that the game isn't fun, its just that they expected more. For a huge push into next-gen, this game really doesn't feel that way. I expected more from Bungie's endless money pit.

And look how well Metal Gear Solid 3 has sold :rolleyes:. It was also very close to the style of MGS2.

Also, they can't really revolutionize this game as much as you, I, or anyone else would like. The reason being is that this is the final chapter of their trilogy. With the previous foundations already written and loved by many, it would be financially irresponisble for the company to revolutionize their franchise this late in the game since it would only be usable once. They can't drastically change the visual look and feel of the series with the final game. It would be stupid and financially irresponsible. Why would they put so much time and money into the new game and product for something that they would only use once?

But, there is another Halo trilogy that is being made by Peter Jackson that will be launched on the 360. If you are wanting a developmental breakthrough in graphics and gameplay, I would look there.

[Vandenh]

so while im playing a good game like say LOZ: TT or Okami, i just laugh at all those suckers.

Well good to see that, while you are very busy playing good games, you apparently care enough about Halo to make an account and post your hate. Good stuff... keep it up!

[Zeal]

The graphics actually look good for once, so I don't know what EvilAvatar.com's talking about when it comes to anti-aliasing issues. I haven't even heard it brought up anywhere else.

The game looks and plays extremely solid.

[H.Bogard]

Why do people always troll about how gameplay is better than graphics in a thread with the word "HALO 3 GRAPHICS" as the title?

[DaedalusFolly]

The game looks and plays extremely solid.
Having played the beta for the first time last night, I agree. My first death was reminiscent of a recent PA strip. "Hey, that infrared beam is pretty cool looking... BAM (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/05/16)"

[Schnoogs]

Why do people always troll about how gameplay is better than graphics in a thread with the word "HALO 3 GRAPHICS" as the title?

Gee I wonder :rolleyes:

[Mista Mafiosi]

I've read several reviews and rants that people didn't like the way Halo 2 ended. For me it was too easy to finish the game in a few hours. Hopefully they end the series on a epic story line in single player mode.

[Manzy]

The graphics actually look good for once, so I don't know what EvilAvatar.com's talking about when it comes to anti-aliasing issues. I haven't even heard it brought up anywhere else.

The game looks and plays extremely solid.


Weren't you saying earlier that everyone's going to be dissapointed in this game? Maybe it was someone else...

[Zeal]

No, that was me. The alpha stage of this game was actually very disappointing. Bungie clearly hadn't balanced or added any new weapons, and the overall gameplay and physics were nothing more than a placeholder engine from Halo 2.

I was amazed to see all the things that were added before the beta was released. They balanced the weapons, completely redid the physics engine, and significantly cleaned up the graphics. It now plays like a different game.

I would advise them to to stick to the original Halo's campaign formula, with large, roaming, sand-box like environments, allowing the player to beat the stage as he pleases. If they could do that, this game could be the true successor of the original Halo.