Are we really just posting "virulent, cruel muck?"

[GunnyMo]

Gamers with Jobs (http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/32155) has put up an interesting editorial about the current state of discourse within the online world we all inhabit.

Massively multiplayer environments of all sorts are under attack from within. Gankers and vultures of all sorts litter the landscape of any MMO that allows for player-vs-player combat, we have griefers a-plenty for the ones that don't. Unless you're playing Neopets, online servers are full of foul-mouthed, racist junk-monkeys. The hate-filled miasma they spatter around them has reached the point where many people who could be on those services won't go, and those who do brave it won't go without a posse and riot gear. Virtual community sites, blogs, message boards and lists spawn their own sort of virulent, cruel muck with moderators scrambling to keep things scrubbed down to a socially acceptable level.

Is this the brave new digital world? Why do we put up with this? What do we do to stop it?

The author brings up some good points. I turn off general chat in World of Warcraft and keep the volume down or turned off when playing with unknowns in just about any XB Live game for exactly the reasons she talks about.

Halo 3's Insta-Mute function is a godsend.

[Gorvi]

Man, am I thankful that this kind of crap never really found root in FFXI. I guess the party system weeded out most of the assholes. :)

On the other hand, this kind of shit is the reason why I stay away from most online gaming. Life is stressful enough, I don't need some 12 year old (or worse, 30 year old) moron slinging racial slurs my way when I'm trying to enjoy my leisure activity of choice.

[Discobob73]

I really hate the 13 year olds that try to talk trash and cuss more than I ever would.

[Johan]

It's the reality of anonymity on the Internet.

And yes...it does suck. It's why I have an incredibly SHORT 360 friends list and generally only play online against people on it.

[Typical_Michael]

Barrens Chat omgftl.

Some of the stuff that people say on online games (because nobody knows who they are, where they live, and cant tell their mothers) would make sailors blush.


Although I did think the Chuck Norris facts on Barrens were funny for awhile.

[Adam Blue]

Eh...I don't play MMO's, but I honestly rarely come across crap that would actually offend to the point of affecting me.

[BrainDrain]

It's the reality of anonymity on the Internet.

I was going to post the same thing. What are we going to do, reach through the tv and bitch slap the kiddies? Are we going to call their parents and complain? Will it really make a difference if we cuss back at some obnoxious, or vulgar, indivudual online?

Nope, we can only mute then, maybe submit feedback, and move on. That's why it's so bad, IMO, is there are no "real" consequences. I feel 99% of the people online would never say, in person, what they say online.

Now if they ever do devise a way where such bitch slapping could actually occur, I think we would see a drop in said behavior :)

(Edit: My thoughts are more attuned to Xbox Live)

[Typical_Michael]

I was going to post the same thing. What are we going to do, reach through the tv and bitch slap the kiddies? Are we going to call their parents and complain? Will it really make a difference if we cuss back at some obnoxious, or vulgar, indivudual online?

Nope, we can only mute then, maybe submit feedback, and move on. That's why it's so bad, IMO, is there are no "real" consequences. I feel 99% of the people online would never say, in person, what they say online.

Now if they ever do devise a way where such bitch slapping could actually occur, I think we would see a drop in said behavior :)

(Edit: My thoughts are more attuned to Xbox Live)

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mH_Sl_gk4ck

[TheFlyingOrc]

Everything I say on the internet is always informative and has a very deep point behind it.

[Tentaro]

LOTRO has had a surprisingly polite user base in my experience so far. Refreshing after WoW and all.

[TheFlyingOrc]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b350/theflyingorc/DrDoomChap.gif

[shnastybiznastic]

I recently started playing on an RP server in WoW. It's a refreshing experience. People are talking in complete sentences almost all the time.

[carneconcarne]

Cockmonkey Penis Gobblers

[digitalErich]

Meh, they seem to be blowing this out of propotion. There will always be asshats on the internet, this is nothing new. There are asshats in life and many can now afford computers. Sure, games like WoW and Halo have their moments, but it's not like it's terrible 99% of the time like the article is suggesting.

[Kid Moxie]

Mute/ignore is my best friend online. It's amazing how much less powerful annoying people are when you stop paying attention to them!

[Gorvi]

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b350/theflyingorc/DrDoomChap.gif
I really need to start posting a picture of The Fantastic Four just to be contrary.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I really need to start posting a picture of The Fantastic Four just to be contrary.
Not...RICHARDS!!!!!!!!

edit: Also, my post would be funnier if someone hadn't hit the 30 second window required to RUIN MY JOKE.

[Grimmjow]

I feel 99% of the people online would never say, in person, what they say online.


You need to conversate with me more often :D :D

[Discobob73]

LOTRO has had a surprisingly polite user base in my experience so far. Refreshing after WoW and all.
Voice chat has been ok, That OOC chat though......omfg...

[spacemanspiff757]

Halo 3's Insta-Mute function is a godsend.

I couldn't agree more. I don't know how many times I've been in the lobby of the Rumble Pit and here some jackass who wants the rest of the people to know "how good of a singer he is". Needless to say, I found that mute function very quickly

[Doctor Setebos]

I really need to start posting a picture of The Fantastic Four just to be contrary.Or a better villain. :rolleyes:

[TheFlyingOrc]

Or a better villain. :rolleyes:
Heh...next time there's a REALLY bad Sony story, I'll put up a picture of Apocalypse. :)

[Doctor Setebos]

Obviously no one so far has read the full article.

Since the link provided goes to "Submit New Thread". :D

[TheFlyingOrc]

Obviously no one so far has read the full article.

Since the link provided goes to "Submit New Thread". :D

EvAv: We have standards. Somewhere.

[Gorvi]

Obviously no one so far has read the full article.

Since the link provided goes to "Submit New Thread". :D
Wait, you mean we post links in the news stories now? When did that start?

[torrefaction]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040319h.jpg

[TheFlyingOrc]

I knew that picture was coming.

[torrefaction]

I knew that picture was coming.

I was shocked it wasn't here yet.

[Doctor Setebos]

I knew that picture was coming.Man, and it took 26 posts to show up! I guess that's just the EvAv community showing some well-deserved restraint.

Thank god for torrefaction's complete lack of self-control. :D

[51|RandoM]

What a non-issue. It is just hormone-filled teenagers doing what they've done since the dawn of time. The anonymity of the Internet just makes it even easier to act that way and be free of any consequences.

[GunnyMo]

Obviously no one so far has read the full article.

Since the link provided goes to "Submit New Thread". :D

Uhhh no it doesn't! Shut up, penis gobbler! :P Wow, that "intertron anonymity" thing is really cool! Wait, I'm not anonymous here. Damn.

[Kamalot]

Here's my thing on Multiplayer gaming.

I like playing with my friends. I don't like playing with strangers.

Would you invite a complete stranger in off of the street to play some game with you? If I wouldn't invite you into my home to sit on my sofa and play video games, then I don't want you in my game.

[snugglebearofdeath]

Would you invite a complete stranger in off of the street to play some game with you? If I wouldn't invite you into my home to sit on my sofa and play video games, then I don't want you in my game.

Well, not again. I learned my lesson after the dude squated at my place like the Jim Varney Carny character on that Simpson's episode...

I agree the mute is a Godsend but what would be great is having someone's voice chat disabled for a round (or longer) after so many, say 5 people, put you on mute. If more than 2 or 3 people are muting you it must be because you are annoying. That way there would accountability for one's actions. (Since we haven't invented an actual way to physically bitch-slap the annoying.)

[Gorvi]

(Since we haven't invented an actual way to physically bitch-slap the annoying.)
Electroshock through the controller. I'd pay large sums of cash (and play online a hell of a lot more) if I could activate that for people being dicks.

[theguido]

Well, online games, especially MMO's, add some more dimensions to the problem of dealing with asshats online.

1. People who are higher level/more experienced/more advanced in content etc. etc. often use that as leverage in discussion in order to disparage other people's views on various matters. WoW is, obviously, the most egregious example, the place where the overuse of L2P became overly common.

2. Unfortunately, to get to certain content in these games, you not only have to deal with but frequently deal with people with these sorts of inflated e-egos, not to mention people who are just plain rude.

Thost two facts combined make MMO's a proverbial hive of scum and villainy. I can't tell, at least with WoW, whether the forums or the game is worse.

[BigJonno]

I recently started playing on an RP server in WoW. It's a refreshing experience. People are talking in complete sentences almost all the time.

A lot of the problems on RP servers are caused by fuckwits on standard servers. Many non-RPers realise that the maturity level is generally higher on RP servers and move there just to get away from leetspeak and characters with incredibly stupid names. This then dilutes the roleplaying population, which can spoil things for the people who do want to roleplay.

That said, I do think that immature thirteen year old roleplayers are worse than standard immature thirteen year olds. Torrents of abuse can be ignored, but some kid sulking because you won't accept that his seventh level warrior is actually a half-angel half-demon half-dragon cyborg saiyen pirate ninja vampire werepanther demigod is agonising.

And I confess, I only read this thread to see how long it would be before someone posted that PA strip.

[Apex]

I dunno, from my experience playing MMO's (Ultima Online, DAoC, Eve Online and now LOTRO) I've found that those kind of things are in the minority and to be few and far between. UO was prolly the worst of the ones ive just listed but even then it wasnt that big a deal.

[Goronmon]

SHITCOCK!!!
On a more serious note, this is one of those problems that people are only concerned with during those, hopefully short, periods where they have just dealt with the annoying, immature and offensive players. I've spent lots of time in WoW and online communities and for the most part, people behave, but it just takes one or two annoying people to ruin your outlook on the community as a whole sometimes.

[Venkman]

I canceled LIVE because of it.

I also joined the 25 yr old+ teamxbox clan for Halo 2 and that a huge difference. Mainly we had to play against each other to avoid the idiocy. Games without clans was about equal to 1 in 10 games being decent. The rest were crap.

[TrackZero]

Meh, I've never had too bad a problem in online MMOs. The shit-talkers are just in general chat which is always turned off for me, and it only usually takes about 1-2 messages when dealing one on one or in a party to know if someone is below the age of 17, which is my general cut-off. I'll boot them out of the party or put them on ignore, as they're never worth the time to deal with (always greedy for loot/exp, don't follow directions, and generally have their thumb up their ass), especially if you're going into a dungeon. Punks simply can't be trusted.

[Exodus]

Here's my thing on Multiplayer gaming.

I like playing with my friends. I don't like playing with strangers.

Would you invite a complete stranger in off of the street to play some game with you? If I wouldn't invite you into my home to sit on my sofa and play video games, then I don't want you in my game.

I would if she had long legs, great eyes and understood the random sense of humour that is rampant in todays geek society. :D

[Johan]

Would you invite a complete stranger in off of the street to play some game with you? If I wouldn't invite you into my home to sit on my sofa and play video games, then I don't want you in my game.

That's how I feel about it as well. It works quite well that way!

I do jump into random multiplayer matches at times, but I expect there to be a bunch of crap, and when that occurs, I find it more amusing than disturbing, as it only reinforces what I had expected all along.

[snugglebearofdeath]

Electroshock through the controller. I'd pay large sums of cash (and play online a hell of a lot more) if I could activate that for people being dicks.

Heh, then what keeps the assholes we're talking about from calling you a shitcock, shocking you, laughing in that high pitched screech they all seem to have before running over to the nearest corpse (that they didn't kill, usually) and tea bagging it until it disappears like it's something that is still remotely funny or original?

[Zacharai]

Typing 'virulent, cruel muck' is the only rational action in a lot of these games. After all, it's an arms-race to be noticed (he only used the word 'fuck', that's sooo last week), and there's almost no downside to it. In economic terms, the transaction cost is virtually nil and the repercussions are nonexistent, so the expected value on 'virulent, cruel muck' is usually above 0.

Besides, swearing a lot confers a second advantage — that the poster is not engaged in rational debate, and thus is immune to irrelevant attacks on his spelling/grammar. If someone types "ur an asscunt whos to stupid to...", you're not gonna score points by correcting their mistakes.

[Gorvi]

Heh, then what keeps the assholes we're talking about from calling you a shitcock, shocking you, laughing in that high pitched screech they all seem to have before running over to the nearest corpse (that they didn't kill, usually) and tea bagging it until it disappears like it's something that is still remotely funny or original?
Because I'd be the only one who could do it. Hey, it's my dream. ;)

[bKangy]

I gank because pissing other people off gives me some pleasure sometimes. It's selfish but oh well, fuck that, I pay my sub fee to have a good time.

[YoungAlCapone]

I gank because pissing other people off gives me some pleasure sometimes. It's selfish but oh well, fuck that, I pay my sub fee to have a good time.

Very nice....

I tend to stay away from online games because of lamers. One of the reasons I play videogames is to get away from the assholes that plague this world, not surround myself with them. That said, getting at least partied up with people on my friends list can make a huge difference in the level of enjoyment I get from gaming online. Everytime I go to play the Halo 3 beta, I make sure at least one person from my friends list is on and willing to party up, and I have been enjoying it considerably.

[snugglebearofdeath]

Because I'd be the only one who could do it. Hey, it's my dream. ;)

Damn all of you GENIUSES!!! DAMN YOU TO HELL!!!
(I'm tea bagging a Gorvi voodoo doll I made here in my office out of paper clips, postIt notes and a tape dispenser at this very moment!)

[bKangy]

To be honest I wouldn't bother with it if it wasn't so fun, but most MMORPGs make it hideously easy to just gank for an hour or two without any strain.

[Taiso]

In FF XI, my regular group (static) is made up of people I know in real life. Because of that, we all have some respect for one another. We all have families, lives, jobs, bills and all the shit that goes with that and we're aware of that because, y'know, we can relate.

But even when I get into pickups on FF XI and play with strangers, I usually run into one of three situations. People that are nice, people that are bossy know-it-alls and people that just don't talk and do their part. When I do pickups, I generally fall into the 'friendly' category or the 'don't talk' category. If the group is being friendly and they're giving advice on how I am playing that job because they're more experienced at it than I am and they may have tips, I'm good with that. Likewise, if everyone is joking, talking about movies and whatnot, I open up. But when people get really bossy I just generally shut out the personality and do as instructed. I don't need the grief that MMO drama brings. I am there for experience points, and if somebody wants to take charge and be pushy, that's fine with me as long as they aren't getting me killed.

As for FPS style games and head to head games, I generally don't play with people I don't know. If my XBL friends invite me to a game and I'm the 'new guy' but they all know one another, I generally expect them to be decent peeps and that always turns out to be the case. The only time I hate playing in this environment is when people exploit the glitches of online play, such as with Gears of War. I don't know many of the glitches, I don't CARE to know many of the glitches and I think they shouldn't be taken advantage of. If you have to glitch the game to win, are you really any good at the game? Some will argue that exploits are part of the experience, but fuck that. It's cheating, no matter how you want to slice it. If the developers didn't want it in the game, it is an unfair advantage dickheads are taking advantage of in order to inflate their wins and stroke their very fragile egos.

But sometimes I end up in games with people I don't like, no mater how inclusive those games may be. And, as has been said in other posts, this kind of immature behavior, along with the streams of cursing and filth that come with losing, are really just a result of anonymity removing the accountability. Account suspensions aren't going to stop them from being idiots. Only real discipline will do that, and even that's not a guarantee. You can only find ways to deal with it. Choose your coping mechanism and get back in the fight. Playing, losing and being called names by someone who will one day no longer be wasting your oxygen is better than hiding in a hole and trying to avoid getting your feelings hurt.

[kid cabelgo]

To be honest I wouldn't bother with it if it wasn't so fun, but most MMORPGs make it hideously easy to just gank for an hour or two without any strain.


ahh, so you're the guy we've all been complaining about.

It's nice to meet you. :rolleyes:

[Karmakin]

I LIKE BARRENS CHAT

You heard me. I said it. Maybe it's just my server, but when I was playing the Barrens, and you know something. Yeah, there was a lot of smartassery. But it was cordial. It was kinda funny every now and then. And it was a good distraction when running the HUGE length of that zone. Barrens chat is the whole idle hands thing :)

Maybe it's just the servers I'm on. But I've never had a problem with it. Now, I've met problematic people. But really, they seem to be in the minority.

But MMORPG forums? Yeeeesh. Hives of scum and villanry. *raises a toast to Tseric*

[Evil_SPanKY]

That said, I do think that immature thirteen year old roleplayers are worse than standard immature thirteen year olds. Torrents of abuse can be ignored, but some kid sulking because you won't accept that his seventh level warrior is actually a half-angel half-demon half-dragon cyborg saiyen pirate ninja vampire werepanther demigod is agonising.

I just found my new sig! And that PA comic is the absolute truth.

[Sloth]

i think the woman who stopped blogging because of threats is a pussy. No amount of threats on this forum would make me stop posting. I mean seriously is anyone here capable of doing anything besides some kind of computer related attack? Yeah there might be someone here capable of hacking into my computer or maybe photoshopping my head onto the goatse guy, but really if I met anyone here on the street , they'd be too much of a pussy to start anything.

[YoungAlCapone]

i think the woman who stopped blogging because of threats is a pussy. No amount of threats on this forum would make me stop posting. I mean seriously is anyone here capable of doing anything besides some kind of computer related attack? Yeah there might be someone here capable of hacking into my computer or maybe photoshopping my head onto the goatse guy, but really if I met anyone here on the street , they'd be too much of a pussy to start anything.

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Its not the proper one, but it makes basically the same point and I am at work.

[LongStepMantis]

inflate their wins and stroke their very fragile egos.


I had to snip that part out, because I think most tards in online gaming do it for one of two reasons mostly.

1)Some 12 year old whose mommy doesn't hug them enough, that can act like a big shot when they're on the net.
I find it so fucking sad that people look to complete strangers to boost their self-esteem, often by ridiculing others, most likely because in the REAL WORLD, they are the ones being ridiculed. So they take out their frustration on other players. People in this group will grow up and work at McDonald's.

2) Or you're one of those morons who acts like you think they give out cash prizes for video games, so if you are the best EVA, you're somehow the leader of the pack. These are the guys who talk about how good they are, even when no one asks. Also, if you make a mistake, they ride your ass for it. If THEY make a mistake, then you should just get over it. I call these guys Hydiots. Hypocritical AND idiots.

But regardless of what you think, i would bet money that most gamers who act like complete pricks on the net, are doing so because they are such losers in real life. Always been the case with people I know. A friend of a friend is a bipolar pothead, who bitches out his wife and leaves home about once a week. And they have a one year old. The reason i mention this is because the guy spends like 10 hours a DAY playing Halo and GoW, instead of working.
And he talks shit while he plays, telling people they're losers and the like. Maybe if he'd devote the same energy to having a JOB or caring for his FAMILY, he wouldn't be so pathetic...Hydiot.

It's a fair trade though, because these people might excel in a VIDEO GAME, but they fail horribly at LIFE.

[ToeBot]

And even if they're not profane, people are still Idiots (hey, you know it's true!). Ignore, chat filters, mute, they keep the online game market alive.

[Beelzebud]

I don't know who the fucking asshole was the wrote the article, but I'd like to drown them in their own bile.

What were we talking about?

[YoungAlCapone]

But regardless of what you think, i would bet money that most gamers who act like complete pricks on the net, are doing so because they are such losers in real life.

It's a fair trade though, because these people might excel in a VIDEO GAME, but they fail horribly at LIFE.

While I thought most of your post was virulent, cruel muck, I wanted to quote these two things for the truth contained within each.

[bean19]

This has been around for 10 years and so has the /ignore feature and language filters. With Xbox Live, you have the ability to avoid players by giving them a bad review, AND you can mute them.

As far as grief play, well most MMOs build their games so that you have to choose servers that allow griefing, so again, it is avoidable except for a very tiny set of games that were built on griefing as the main draw (and were honestly really crappy).

[LongStepMantis]

While I thought most of your post was virulent, cruel muck, I wanted to quote these two things for the truth contained within each.

I'll admit my post was a lot of rant, but I've been playing online since Doom, and the communities just get worse and worse every year.
Mostly because video games will always be GAMES to me.
To me, there's absolutely no difference between talking shit playing Halo, and talking shit while playing checkers. Both make you look like a moron. My 2 cents.

[Evil_SPanKY]

upon further reflection, some of the forum speak has made it way into my daily vocabulary. In traffic, I routinely use asshat, assclown, or my personal favorite, good ole fucktard. You should see some of the looks I get from people, who have probably never heard these terms before.

[TrackZero]

but really if I met anyone here on the street , they'd be too much of a pussy to start anything.

Well, considering I almost kicked some asshole down an escalator on Friday, I don't think that's quite the case. But certainly I don't think any of us would try to start fights IRL without good reason.

[LongStepMantis]

upon further reflection, some of the forum speak has made it way into my daily vocabulary. In traffic, I routinely use asshat, assclown, or my personal favorite, good ole fucktard. You should see some of the looks I get from people, who have probably never heard these terms before.

I had to jump in just to say that "fucktard" has been forged into my vocabulary since the first time it was uttered. It's like a fine wine of curses, combining retards and fuckers into one all-inclusive term. Thank you intertubes! :D

Plus, I wouldn't try and pick fights with people over the net, to be concluded in a real life meeting. There's far too many unstable people out there. My ex-friend went completely bonkers, and now thinks all of his former friends are demons in human bodies...for REAL. He still plays on xbox live, so if anyone meets him, have fucking fun with that. Oh yea, he was arrested for pulling a knife on his mother, so good luck.

[Digital Outlaw]

im from the XBAND days when there was no mic and the only time you talked (typed) was before and after a game. Much better in those days but when you wanted to play across the country your modem had to dial their number which was a toll call and stay on for the entire match. XBAND was the original live with leaderboards and GT's. Still remember when I was ranked 2nd in NBA Jam but there is lot more people playing now than there was. Nobody ever really shit talked in those days....... Just good games against True Hardcore Players because only Hardcore players had the XBAND.......

[Sandman]

im from the XBAND days when there was no mic and the only time you talked (typed) was before and after a game. Much better in those days but when you wanted to play across the country your modem had to dial their number which was a toll call and stay on for the entire match. XBAND was the original live with leaderboards and GT's. Still remember when I was ranked 2nd in NBA Jam but there is lot more people playing now than there was. Nobody ever really shit talked in those days....... Just good games against True Hardcore Players because only Hardcore players had the XBAND.......

I had xband for my Genesis and MK3. My phone bill was high those days.

[Goronmon]

...they'd be too much of a pussy to start anything.Cause you'd pop a cap in their ass? Man, you are so tough. Can I have your babies? Pretty please?

[Johan]

Cause you'd pop a cap in their ass? Man, you are so tough. Can I have your babies? Pretty please?

You can have mine, already pre-manufactured. I've got a few extra around here somewhere! :D

[Wolvie]

Personally, I avoid message boards unless they have a community of people I can deal with. EvAv has that, GameFaqs does not.
I'm also the type of gamer that uses a headset in FPS games to help my team mates, but I'm all too ready to turn the volume off, yank the head set out of my ear, or if I'm cranky, not even bother to use the damn thing.
People in competitive games are assholes more often then not when your dealing with strangers. They piss and moan about losing rank/levels, they whine about the team not picking up the pace, and they sling insults like high school bullies. For the most part, I try to stay as disconnected from other humans in cyber-space as possible. And only come out to chat when I know it's safe to do so.

Thank you EvAv for giving me such a safe haven to let my opinion be heard. And also thank you for putting up with my bitching about silly shit like the Transformers movie. :D

[Vulture]

which is why clan owned fps servers tend to be nicer places that some Corporate MMOs. The clan's website and forums make it clear that you should repsect your fellow players. Unless he is cheating, then it's open mic put downs from all on the fucktard until a mod ban's him.

Been playing online since the beginning, and even the MODs around here can be a jerk in a game (a EA BF2 incident still irks me)

As for Anonymity in gaming, why do we have it? Seriously ***,EA, Sony should take a stand and create permanent gmaing identities that are tied to a person. And people should be able to ban or friend you based on who you are. But not just who you are in this particular game, but the same "who" was in some other online game and what you did there.

I try to always use Vulture in my handle no matter which online gaming environment I am in, it has helped mostly. Been Vulture since '83