Tales from the Dark Side - Indie Game Store Hell

[Evil Avatar]

Following up on their recent launch, Next Generation has posted an article titled, Retail Hell (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=150&Itemid=2), where retail store owner Eric Grissom talks about the heartache of owning an indie gaming store.

It takes a cold dead heart to hand someone $6 for a game they probably shelled out $50 for originally, but you’ll learn to deal with it. This is how you override all that bullshit you go through with the new stuff. That’s the game, that’s the whole stupid cat-and-mouse act. It’s all right there in front of you reflected in the eyes of a 10-year-old and packed into a plastic DVD case. You had better push that guilt down inside you deep and get the product on the floor so you can start the whole mess of a cycle over. If you’re lucky you’ll sell that game and turn a profit, and if you don’t you sink further into an abyss of debt and misery.I think that retail game stores are the bane of the gaming industry. Anyone who gives a consumer $5.00 for a $50.00 game, and then tries to re-sell it for $45.00 should be shot on sight. That is why I purchase all my titles right from Fry's Electronics (usually at a discount) or I snag them used on Ebay.

[kokyunage]

Same here. I usually get my games at Compusa or Bestbuy. Both usually take $10-15 dollars off new games during the first week of them coming out. Sure, they get them a couple days later than say Gamestop, but I can wait 2 days to save 10-15 bucks.

[Dirty Harry]

welll this is embarasing evil......

[Evil Avatar]

welll this is embarasing evil......

Well, you get the idea... I understand the economics of selling used games and from the massive amount of used titles you find on the shelves at EB and Gamestop, it is more than obvious that this is where the stores make their money, but that doesn't make it any less vomit inducing when you know that these stores are just ripping consumers off in order to stay in business.

GunnyMo works at one of these stores also and he is a fantastic guy, but I'm sure he will tell you his store does the same thing and they probably (Gasp!) gut titles before putting them on the shelf as well. (A practice that just makes me cringe.)

I think these stores need to figure out something different. If it was my store, I think I would try selling used titles at more of a realistic price piont, hoping to make up in quantity the money I lost on each individual sale.

[if76]

This is funny because a couple months ago there was an article linked on EA about how selling used games hurts the little guy (the game developer) because they don't gain anything from the sale of a used game.

Now we get an article linked about how used games sales help the little guy (the independed game retailer) because it's the only thing keeping them afloat.

I really don't know what to think.

[doubtingthomas]

It is odd. When you buy new, that helps developer, publisher, etc. who was involved in the creation of that game and bringing it to the public. When you buy used, that benefits some retailer only. Not to advocate piracy, and you can't equate it to used game purchasers exactly, but if person A steals a game, and person B buys it used, neither person benefits the creators or that process, and the differences between the two seem to be minimal.

[Dirty Harry]

Well, you get the idea... I understand the economics of selling used games and from the massive amount of used titles you find on the shelves at EB and Gamestop, it is more than obvious that this is where the stores make their money, but that doesn't make it any less vomit inducing when you know that these stores are just ripping consumers off in order to stay in business.

GunnyMo works at one of these stores also and he is a fantastic guy, but I'm sure he will tell you his store does the same thing and they probably (Gasp!) gut titles before putting them on the shelf as well. (A practice that just makes me cringe.)

I think these stores need to figure out something different. If it was my store, I think I would try selling used titles at more of a realistic price piont, hoping to make up in quantity the money I lost on each individual sale.
I meant that there is infact another news post with 60 responses about the same article.

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3003

[Furious Wang]

I don't see how people are getting ripped off. First, the 5/45 switch you speak of just doesn't exist. If Gamestop is reselling a popular used game for 45, they're buying it for 25-35 bucks.

Second, the people getting ripped off don't *have* to sell their games if they don't want too. You make it sound like its some sort of a scam. These guys can either sell back some games they never play towards a new game they will, or just eat the cost completely and let it gather dust.

Third, the used game market helps gamers with less free money to spend. They can buy used games for cheaper then new and then trade the game back in when they're done for even more savings.

Fourth, stores run trade in specials all the time. Once, EB was running a "Trade in any two games, get 10 bucks bonus credit for each one" special and a "Buy two preplayed games, get one free" special. I made proper use of the deal, traded some games I had bought for new and some I had bought used and walked out with 6 new preplayed games and actually came out 10 dollars ahead in value.

And frankly, if the preplayed market didn't exist game specialty stores just wouldn't exist. The only place to shop would be Walmart, Target and the like.

I've saved tons of cash and played far far more games then I would have if the Preplayed market didn't exist. There's nothing wrong with it.

[ChunderMan]

I think that retail game stores are the bane of the gaming industry. Anyone who gives a consumer $5.00 for a $50.00 game, and then tries to re-sell it for $45.00 should be shot on sight. That is why I purchase all my titles right from Fry's Electronics (usually at a discount) or I snag them used on Ebay.

That is misleading and false. On a new, current-generation game that sells (new) for $50, both EB and GameStop would offer $25-$30. They would then turn around and sell the game for $45. It's still quite a markup, but not as much as you said.

[LilAbner]

I think that retail game stores are the bane of the gaming industry. Anyone who gives a consumer $5.00 for a $50.00 game, and then tries to re-sell it for $45.00 should be shot on sight. That is why I purchase all my titles right from Fry's Electronics (usually at a discount) or I snag them used on Ebay.

Evil, you on crack? Even the likes of EB/Gamestop will give you $20 for relatively new games. If I purchased a game 4 years ago for $50, why the hell would ANYONE give me more than $5? It's simple economics and it's called depreciation. Look it up.

[Dirty Harry]

Evil, you on crack? Even the likes of EB/Gamestop will give you $20 for relatively new games. If I purchased a game 4 years ago for $50, why the hell would ANYONE give me more than $5? It's simple economics and it's called depreciation. Look it up.
Around here pawn shops give you 5 bucks a pop for each game.

[Evil Avatar]

That is misleading and false. On a new, current-generation game that sells (new) for $50, both EB and GameStop would offer $25-$30. They would then turn around and sell the game for $45. It's still quite a markup, but not as much as you said.

The few times I've been to Gamestop and EB to trade in stuff about the maximum they offered for anything - even stuff that had just come out that week - was $20.00 in store credit and store credit is essentially worthless because all they are doing is trading you one trade-in game for another trade-in game or they are giving you $20.00 credit toward a new title that they paid less than $20.00 for and then re-selling your trade-in for $45.00 in cash... which means they are just making bank off your trade in and you are getting screwed.

If you have games to sell, Ebay is the only way to get what they are worth and if you want to buy used games... again Ebay is the only way to pay what they are worth.

[TrackZero]

This is funny because a couple months ago there was an article linked on EA about how selling used games hurts the little guy (the game developer) because they don't gain anything from the sale of a used game.

Now we get an article linked about how used games sales help the little guy (the independed game retailer) because it's the only thing keeping them afloat.

I really don't know what to think.

Technically the independent game retailer is the "middle man" and is not creating content, merely delivering said content to you at a margin of profit for themselves. Not to mention the publisher, which these days is just burning a disc, throwing it in a box and mailing it to a store (remember the days when you got a real manual, a poster and extra stuff in that game box?).

But god forbid (http://www.steampowered.com) the developer tries to sell to you directly.

[Banacek]

Man, who ever shops at places like Best Buy or Fry's has no right saying companies like Electronic Arts are evil...

/just a thought

[mister_slim]

Someone's gotta keep the old stuff in inventory. There's no way Best Buy or Wal-Mart is going to have a copy of some old game lying around. It's hard enough finding some games anyway. To me, the great thing about the Revolution and GameTap is that history won't be abandoned.

[code]

My local indie game shop has an ingenious system where you take your old game back, pay £5 and then get to swap it for any game of a similar age in their second hand section. and when you buy a new game from them you get a voucher which lets you come back and swap it for free.
That way the store gets money for essentially nothing and you get to play a different game each week for a fiver!

[GunnyMo]

Well, you get the idea... I understand the economics of selling used games and from the massive amount of used titles you find on the shelves at EB and Gamestop, it is more than obvious that this is where the stores make their money, but that doesn't make it any less vomit inducing when you know that these stores are just ripping consumers off in order to stay in business.

GunnyMo works at one of these stores also and he is a fantastic guy, but I'm sure he will tell you his store does the same thing and they probably (Gasp!) gut titles before putting them on the shelf as well. (A practice that just makes me cringe.)

I think these stores need to figure out something different. If it was my store, I think I would try selling used titles at more of a realistic price piont, hoping to make up in quantity the money I lost on each individual sale.

lol, thanks, Evil. *sniff*

Btw, for those wondering the reason we "gut" titles is very simple: there are these things in the world called "thieves". They tend to take things that don't belong to them! Can you believe it?! It's a fact that bigger stores (IE: Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.) have astronomical shrink (loss) numbers when it comes to their live product even with all of their Naz like security measures. Truth be told we only gut one copy of a game (two if it's a bigger title) and odds are there are plenty of shrink wrapped copies left for those who like to pay extra for plastic. :)

As far as how much we pay for used games I can almost guarantee you that we pay more than most because we are such a big company. Blockbuster is shooting themselves in the foot right now in their slavering attempt to break into the used business (giving upwards of $10 for very old games and sports titles). They'll never be able to sell these titles and turn a profit. Our prices are very reasonable for the most part, I think.

The used business is very consumer driven. If customers didn't want to trade in at the prices available they wouldn't do so. They also wouldn't buy if our prices were too high. I do have people who refuse to trade because they think a price is too low. However, nine out of ten times it's a clueless parent thinking their Madden '01 is still worth the $50 they paid for it five years ago.

I always use the analogy "It's the same as buying a new car. It's not worth what you paid for it as soon as you drive it off of the lot." It is also worth considering that if you play a new game for a month and then want to trade it in the price differences between the buy back price and what you paid is about what you'd pay to rent the very same game.

I can see both sides of the argument but I think the guy in the article is way too touchy feely to be in any sort of retail business. There's no guilt involved when you leave the final decision up to the consumer as to whether or not they will trade in. There's no jack booted thug at the counter putting a gun to their head forcing them to trade.

[Kefkataran]

Yeah, this is a little bit of a repost. But don't worry, EA, I don't mind. I can't stay mad at that face.

[didragondi]

I know I commented on McVans in the other thread, but this one just serves to distinguish them more from the crowd. THeir used prices are 38 for recent used games as compared to 44 at eb gamestop and when I was trading a lot, you got 30 dollars towards your next game by trading in another recent game. Now, if you arent trading it for a game of equivalent value, you lose some and might have to settle for cash then pay the difference, but I have never seen a situation where they just didnt kick the crap out of eb or gamestop. If you live near Indiana or western OH, or southeastern MI for that matter, they are worth the trip.

[ChunderMan]

The few times I've been to Gamestop and EB to trade in stuff about the maximum they offered for anything - even stuff that had just come out that week - was $20.00 in store credit and store credit is essentially worthless because all they are doing is trading you one trade-in game for another trade-in game or they are giving you $20.00 credit toward a new title that they paid less than $20.00 for and then re-selling your trade-in for $45.00 in cash... which means they are just making bank off your trade in and you are getting screwed.

If you have games to sell, Ebay is the only way to get what they are worth and if you want to buy used games... again Ebay is the only way to pay what they are worth.

Well, that may be. But personally traded in God of War at EB a month after it came out and got $30 for it. I guess I don't consider that getting screwed...

[Kyle Jones]

I just avoid this by never trading in games.

[Kelegacy]

I walked into EB once with Kingdom Hearts (it wasnt still a NEW game, but it had been out for a handful of months) and two others. THey wanted to give me 6 or 7 bucks for ALL of them. i almost shat my pants. I slapped the fucker in the mouth and gave him a dirty sanchez. I took my games back to my indie shop nearby and havent tried to sell anything again to EB. You can get much better on Ebay anyway. I dont know why anyone would sell to those thieves.

[Kelegacy]

Well, that may be. But personally traded in God of War at EB a month after it came out and got $30 for it. I guess I don't consider that getting screwed...

Yes, but then they sell it for 45 bucks. 45 bucks for a used game and 50 for a new one? What the hell is that? I went in trying to pick up GTA3 nearly a year after its release...and they wanted 45 bucks for it. Outrageous. I'll pay the extra 5 for the cellophane, thank you.

[ChunderMan]

Yes, but then they sell it for 45 bucks. 45 bucks for a used game and 50 for a new one? What the hell is that? I went in trying to pick up GTA3 nearly a year after its release...and they wanted 45 bucks for it. Outrageous. I'll pay the extra 5 for the cellophane, thank you.

I guess I look at it this way... in the old days, cartridge-based games did deteriorate over time. But CD/DVD based games do not. If I can save myself $5 by getting the used version I will. To my knowledge, both EB and GameStop guarantee their used stuff.