Video Game Violence IS Real Violence

[bapenguin]

I really have to laugh at this study. (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=581&e=2&u=/nm/20050622/tc_nm/science_videos_dc) But apparantly the brain reacts to video game violence the same way it does when a person commits real violence.
Wired up to a scanner, they were asked to play a game involving navigating through a complicated bunker, killing attackers and rescuing hostages.

Mathiak found that as violence became imminent, the cognitive parts of the brain became active and that during a fight, emotional parts of the brain were shut down.

The pattern was the same as that seen in subjects who have had brain scans during other simulated violent situations.
So...while playing a violent simulation, their brains reacted the same as they do during a violent simulation?!?!?! Now that's SCIENCE!

[DeadPixel]

While reading this post, I punched throught my screen. Now I can only see the logo in the top left corner. Help please!!!!

[Mrbunchypants]

It was only 13 males. why only male?

On the flip side. Does this mean when my wife places the sims the emotional parts of the brain were more active?

[Phades]

"We've discovered that simulating something causes the same reaction in the brain as simulating it."

Amazing! I know I'm impressed by their research abilities.

[crashedout]

Why is this so hard to believe? If you can suspend belief to get into a book, movie or game then your brain has to be doing something as if the experience is real.

I just hope they don't jump to the conclusion that this means games make gamers violent. That is unsupported here.

[abso]

Who the hell funded that guy is what I want to know. I've got some great studies that I'll take money like that for.

I really wish this country would start listening to rational arguments and data as opposed to sensationalism. We need people in power that will start recognizing this and do something about it. All we do is breed followers and dependent thinkers right now, which is why video games are a so called 'problem' but movies and tv are not.

crashed: The thing about it that people are reacting to is that the study looked at a various violent simulations and said the brain reacts the same way to all violent simulations. There was NO link made to violent simulations and violent acts in the real world, which is the point that many advocacy groups are trying to make right now.

[Phades]

Who the hell funded that guy is what I want to know. I've got some great studies that I'll take money like that for.

I really wish this country would start listening to rational arguments and data as opposed to sensationalism. We need people in power that will start recognizing this and do something about it. All we do is breed followers and dependent thinkers right now, which is why video games are a so called 'problem' but movies and tv are not.

I really hope it was government funded so that I had some part, however small, in this amazing breakthrough.

[TheWookieeHasNoPants]

so which part of the brain reacts to a giant sticky ball picking up things like cars, bridges, and dinosaurs?

[Steve_Erhardt]

Good lord.

Somebody needs to beat old Klaus with a simulated hickory stick.

[Zurik]

Finally, now we have a study that finally shows why millions of video gamers are running around shoot and killing people everywhere. Oh wait, we're not out there doing that? Well crap then.

[Ernst_Jager]

Someday maybe all these people that think video games are the root of all that is evil will meet what most of like to call.....reality.

[EternalGamer]

When I get hungry the cognitive part of my brain for food takes over shuting down any emotional responses I might otherwise be having. Conclusion: Eating food is teh violence!!!

Note to you vegans: Even you do not escape teh violence of food.

Dan

[Wayfarer]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2005/20050622l.jpg

/Penny Arcade ;-)

[kickmybum]

There was also a study that that indicates that the adrenaline level of males preparing to go shopping is the same as the adrenaline levels of soldiers preparing for a battle in war.

The only thing studies like this are good for is..... um.... well..... someone help me out?

[Varsity]

"We've discovered that simulating something causes the same reaction in the brain as simulating it."

Amazing! I know I'm impressed by their research abilities.
You are assuming you know what their aims were. They could have been researching the effect of violent simulations in general.

[HotCoffeeDude]

This just seems like more proof about the conditioning argument.

The army has known about such conditioning for a while. You can use conditioning via computer simulation to improve an indvidual’s ability to handle all kinds of tasks - whether it be driving, flying, negotiating, or even killing (i.e. handling violent situations). There are tons of government-funded studies that show playing battle simulations can help prepare one for the real thing.

A lot of your knee jerk reactions are funny, but this is real. Playing a violent video game can improve your ability to handle a violent situation. If you are already a violent person with violent impulses, well, it stands to reason this could make you better at acting on them. Doesn't mean they can plant violent impulses in you, or make you a violent person.

[Testcase]

Finally, now we have a study that finally shows why millions of video gamers are running around shoot and killing people everywhere. Oh wait, we're not out there doing that? Well crap then.

OH.. We will. We willlllll.....

[vornskr]

Whether violent videos make people more aggressive though is hard to prove, the magazine noted. Studies have suggested players of violent games are in fact more aggressive but have left open the question of whether the games made them that way.

Nothing amazing or revolutionary in this article. Move along.

And a word of warning: before you judge others as foolish or narrow-minded for attacking video games as a source of violence, remember that you're immidiately on the defensive by association. Don't be so quick to shut out those who call your entertainment medium dangerous. It might be dangerous in a different way..

If your brain reacts the same way to simulated violence the way it does to real violence, and real violence causes your body and mind to undergo increased stress, then it's entirely reasonable to hypothosize that you may be digging yourself an early grave by staying up late weekday nights playing your favorite FPS online.

[yutt]

Everytime I read something like this, it makes me want to kill someone. Just like I do in GTA3 and DOOM.

And since simulating violent situations has such a profound impact, I wonder what actually acting them out would do! I pray every high school drama club shut down today, as "Oedipus the King" has caused innumerable children to fuck their own mothers!

[Goronmon]

Wow, I can't believe they were able to compare the brain's reaction to violence in video games to the brain's reaction when someone actually does commit a violent act in real life.

Oh wait...they weren't able to...

...

So what exactly does this prove again?

[Goronmon]

If your brain reacts the same way to simulated violence the way it does to real violence,
But all this study showed was that your brain reacts the same towards video game violence as towards simulated violence. Which is a pretty stupid thing to try to prove if you ask me.

[Varsity]

Why don't you go and look up the brain's reaction to real violence before you carry on arguing about it. For all you know, it is the same as in the tests.

[Phades]

Why don't you go and look up the brain's reaction to real violence before you carry on arguing about it. For all you know, it is the same as in the tests.

Well that would put some validity into their research which was our WHOLE POINT!!!!!!

[Varsity]

And on that note, it might be helpful if someone found the actual paper instead of a 500 word summary by Yahoo.

[Thenetcase]

Well... I play Farcry, Joint Operations, GTA 3, Vice City, San Andreas, and a lot of other very violent games... Mostly shooters with lots of blood.
But recently when I was a witness at the scene of an accident where a lady had her arm cut up badly, it effected me in a way that is hard to describe. It is horribly different than seeing it in a game.
This so-called "research" is a bunch of f'ing B.S. People react WAY DIFFERENT to real violence than to simulated violence. That's why so many people freaked out when 9/11 happened instead of just passing it off as another big explosion (like they see in movies and games every damn day).

Man I hate humans.

-TNC-

[Offworlder]

I agree Thenetcase. I play violent video games only day, and the only thing they desensitize me to is video game violence. Real violence, however, is another thing entirely. The few times I've experienced real violence firsthand, I've been completely appalled. It hits you deep in the gut in a totally different way.

Anyone out there that actually has trouble distinguishing between the two needs professional help, stat.

[JamesGatz]

Hey Kids! Knock Knock!
"WHO"S THERE?"
Reality.

The mind is a delicate, intricate creature. We have pieces in all our noggins designed to differentiate broadly between sensations of temperature; we have ingrained face-matching technology upon which current and upcoming police profiling software is based; and we have what might best be termed an "awareness" of the difference between imagined, conceptual experience (day dreams) and actual real-world experience (one based upon tangible, physical stimuli). In this final instance, it is speculated that dreams, (and hallucinations) and the reality they present, are a product of this awareness switching off. It is what allows us to feel, taste, touch, and hear the imagined stimuli of our dreams. Further, researchers have proposed that different forms of mania and psychosis are brought on by the degradation of this awareness in the waking state -- allowing day dreams and flights of fantasy to be experienced as real and physical events.

Now, let's apply this perception of the division between conscious and unconscious man to video gaming. What in our DNA tells us that objects projected on a television screen are not real? Perhaps that we are unable to effect them draws this line for us. But what about when we are able to effect change on televised objects? The monitor present in our brain that distinguishes between real and imagined experiences is an automatic process--like temperature sensation or facial recognition, it operates separate of our conscious plane. That means, then, that it is not enough to simply think "this is not real," there must be some automatic, consistent trigger present in the stimuli to engage it. Nothing in a video game is imagined. All stimuli enters from an external source, is acted upon, and changed in unpredictable ways. This is the central division between the real and the imagined. It is not hard to believe that video games mimic accurately the experience of violence, and through that mimicry, fool the mind.

Video games are a powerful medium. One day, they will accurately approximate our experiences in the world. It is not hard to imagine a future in individuals are permanently inserted into simulated worlds in preference to our own. Essentially, games are in the business of remaking reality until you can't tell the difference. What does this mean? It means parental supervision is important. It means caution and discretion must be displayed by vendors. It means that game makers must take responsibility for the effects of their products -- (this is contentious, I know. But if you build and tank, you must share in some fraction of the blame when that tank treads over the skull of a 19-yr old conscriptee). And gamers must accept that while the individuals who go on game inspired rampages, jump from buildings, and die of starvation were very likely "messed up way before they played the game," the game was the catalyst to their deeds. All potentially influential, harmful substances carry this self-similarity. Many actions committed while drunk, high, and in love are results of preexisting states, but would not have been committed had the individual not been drunk, high, or enamoured. The solution is not to ban games or regulate their allowable content (a person can make any movie they choose, but not necessarily get it passed through the MPAA), but to strictly enforce, and in many cases re-write, the laws that govern their dispersal and usage.

Senator Joe is a little right. Vilification is bad, but no worse than self-imposed ignorance.


Knock Knock, kids.

[Cha-Ka]

To me, this study proves once and for all that actors who play the roles of violent criminals should be incarcerated before they turn on society.


Senator Joe is a little right. Vilification is bad, but no worse than self-imposed ignorance.

You had me agreeing with you until this last comment. What part of Senator Joe's call to HALT THE RETAIL RELEASE OF "25 to life" meets with your approval. That would seem to run contrary to the opinions you put forward in the rest of your post.

[Sion]

Why do you people attack stuff like this? a man in an airplane droping bombs on people is causing violence without even seeing what he is attacking and he does to acomplish it is press buttons and flip switches. I dont think it's THAT far removed.

[DarthCarto]

Violent Reactions as it realates to Video Games Study: The Scientific Method

1. Observation: teenager slaughters a few people and claims GTA:SA made him do it.

2. Hyothesis: violent video games appear to make people more violent.

3. Predicted outcome: playing GTA:SA will make 19 boys act like murderers.

5. Conclusive Proof Beyond Shadow of Doubt! (Theory): Violent video games make people more violent.

4. Experiment: Compare brain patterns of Violent Criminal acts to simulated violent criminal acts as they happen. Results: Criminally insane patterns = A; Real Violent Criminal Act Patterns = X; Violent Simulations = Y; Violent Video Game patterns = Z ... Okay, then X = A, Y = Z, but X ≠ Y, so X ≠ Z ... CRAP! OK, umm... Let's see... X^3*8/Square-root of Pi...Carry the 1...LOG of airspeed of a coconut laden swallow... Eureka! A ≠ X = Y = Z. Violent video game players are murderers! Hallelujia, somebody get me a beer!

Looks like good science to me!

[Sion]

Game glorify violence and desensatize kids to violence and teach how to be more effective with violence(to a point).

What about that boy who shot 2 police and stole a cop car to get away in less than 1 min. Im not saying that GTA caused him to do it, but im sure that it played a role on what went off in his brain. He sure didnt have to think about it very long to decide to aim for the head(both cops were shot in the head), then imeadiatly look for a car to get. Im not saying it caused him to comit that crime, but I think it caused him to be more dangerous.

I think it's stupid how all of you go to extreams and say lol so stupid, they think games are turning everyone into murderers lol

[Goronmon]

Want to know my main problem I have with the article?

Title of article:
Brain sees violent video games as real life

Explaination of actual study:
The pattern was the same as that seen in subjects who have had brain scans during other simulated violent situations.

Now, I wish I had the actual report from the study sitting in front of me, because when I am reading that article all I end up seeing is:

Virtual violence effects the brain the same as virtual violence

[Furious Wang]

The Science is about as solid as it can get. I'm not sure why you guys are skeptical. You fight someone in reality the brain works the same as it does in virtual reality. Now its proven.

And I honestly don't understand how you guys don't understand what the article is saying.

They simulated violence in reality. Monitored brain functions. Then they had people play violent video games. Monitored brain functions. Found the same thing.

[Goronmon]

They simulated violence in reality. Monitored brain functions. Then they had people play violent video games. Monitored brain functions. Found the same thing.
Simulated violence != actual violence.

I just don't see how you can directly relate how someone's brain reacts to fake violence to how someone's brain reacts to actual violence.

Sure, there may be some correlation, but how much?

[Heretic Machine]

They simulated violence in reality. Monitored brain functions. Then they had people play violent video games. Monitored brain functions. Found the same thing.

But the people they were sampling likely viewed the "real" violence simulation in the same way they would view a video game, meaning that when they played the video game they -would- come up with the same readings. But that doesn't mean it would happen in reality, since appearently we don't have samples of what happens in reality.

My suggestion: Hook up some cops and hope for the best. Better yet, stop trying to pretend that violence causes stupid people to do stupid things.

[JamesGatz]

to sharpened monkey:
Joe is partly right. giving up ground doesn't constitute a concession.

No minds will be changed by a post on a game forum. But maybe some will be opened. Just because you enjoy something, it doesn't automatically qualify as harmless. Just because someone is attacking something you enjoy, it doesn't make them wrong.

edit: and, as for 25-life - the game looks terrible and should be shelved, but not for the reasons Joe proposes. Any game that lacks a compelling story and strong characters should be put down before it reaches pre-production. The industry of interactive entertainment is in a sorry state; 25-Life will only make things worse.

I'm all for incendiary content, as long as it is in service to a compelling narrative and supported by well developed characters. . But if its just an excuse to make a few bucks off an adolescent (in mind or body) GTA addict...well come on now kids, that dog don't hunt.

[Garthilk]

You know what is retarded. The video game industry keeps ranting and raving that video games are educational tools that can help teach individuals to become better at certain tasks. But then in the next breath they say that it can't teach violence.

[Cuba]

Carry the 1...LOG of airspeed of a coconut laden swallow... Eureka!Wait a minute... are you talking about an African swallow or European swallow?

[Eon]

This is unmitigated bullshit. Most soldiers who have been forced to kill in combat at close quarters have suffered immense psychic trauma as a result of it.

Yesterday I killed about 30 Germans in Brothers in Arms. I also jammed a knifeblade into about a shit-ton (that's a metric shit-ton) of Trandoshans in Republic Commando.

I feel fine today, so either I'm the biggest psycho that ever lived, or game violence is not the same as real violence.

[Dracula-X]

Wait a minute... are you talking about an African swallow or European swallow?

An African swallow maybe, but not a European swallow. :)

[DannoHung]

Here's a link to the BBC article because that Reuters one is written poorly and highly loaded: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4119408.stm

I think the other *simulated* acts were performed physically by subjects in a controlled environment. I'm going to bet that there's a certain real validity to the study based on people, like soldiers, who fight for a living and have been highly trained to make combat as controlled and precise as possible, while in the case of violent brawls that erupt and brutal non-planned slayings, the brain patterns would be different.

I think, perhaps, this could be said more accurately as: Videogames don't necessarily make you more likely to go and act violently, but when you decide that you need to do so, you will be ready to apply force in a more effective manner. This effect would be due to the fact that cognition about violence, just like other forms of cognition, can be trained. As for games that are less violent, they would train peoples cognition in more general ways.

[Goronmon]

Like I said, the main problem stems from the fact that there is no degree of correlation between the brains reaction to the violence they simulated in the study and the brain's reaction to actual violence.

Anyone have any articles or anything that might answer this question?