Peter Moore is Having a Good Day

[bapenguin]

At least he is according to Next-Gen.biz (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5599&Itemid=2&limit=1&limitstart=0). Next-Gen goes on to question Mr. Moore in regards to the PS3, Halo 3, The XBox 360 Elite, and even Playstation Home. Okay, but Sony does have other advantages, what about PlayStation Home? “Four years ago, we looked at the concept of a lounge where your avatar could wander around. We looked at an area where people could play their music, show people their videos. But it was not something that we felt worth pursuing. We made a decision that the user interface that we would put in to Xbox Live was one that got you in quickly, that allowed you to navigate where you wanted to go, and to do what you wanted to do. The concept of hanging out was something that, while we looked at it, we just didn’t think was something that our users wanted to do.

I'll be curious to see the NPD Numbers on the XBox 360 in the next couple of days. I wonder how many Elites have actually sold.

[Heretic Machine]

Peter Moore: "We totally thought of that first, but the idea sucks, and we did something so totally better! Seriously!"

*cough*Jackass*cough*

[jeffool]

I still don't get the big deal about Home. (Aside from showing your virtual 'home' to give them an inkling of an idea to who you are as a person.) But 3d desktops where you have to walk around a world to get to places instead of just click on an icon suck.

But hey, just becuase I don't like something doesn't mean others won't.

[CaptStu]

Didn't the head of MS Game Studies (the guy before Shane Kim) leave MS to go to Sony? That was about 3 or 4 years ago. I wonder if he took that idea with him.

[Mr.Green]

Home lost a ton of interest when they mentioned it was 64 "players" only.

[Murtaug]

But hey, just becuase I don't like something doesn't mean others won't.

Oh, others will, and for what it is worth it is a cool idea; the question is how they will impliment it in a way that makes it worth while. Not having used it, or anything like it before, I can not say honestly what my opinion on it will ultimately be. I do not even own a PS3, and do not plan on owning one in the near future.

As is though, I like Live, and for the most part the way it is set up. I could write a list of things I dislike, or what I would change and how, but it is rather moot as Live works as is, and works well.

[alienchild]

lol, 64 players...

[Karmakin]

The problem with Home is that so many possibilities jump into mind, but the likely result is that few of those possibilities will be realized. It's kinda like the iPhone in that regard.

[Ph00p]

Home appealed to me in the demo they showed until the guy basically said it was a new advertising medium, another place for them to make money, I guess they need to though judging by their losses heh.

[CrashCart]

I'll be curious to see the NPD Numbers on the XBox 360 in the next couple of days. I wonder how many Elites have actually sold.
I think they're kind of hard to find, right? At least in my area. A friend of mine finally decided he wanted a 360 and figured he might as well get an Elite (80 bucks for 100 gigs more, as opposed to potentially having to spend $180 later if he needed more space), but had some trouble finding one.

Granted, he still got one the same week he started looking which is more than you can say about the Wii situation around here. And lack of availability in central PA probably isn't indicative of huge sales or widespread shortages. Are they still limited edition items or was that just the black paintjob?

[CaptStu]

I think they're kind of hard to find, right? At least in my area. A friend of mine finally decided he wanted a 360 and figured he might as well get an Elite (80 bucks for 100 gigs more, as opposed to potentially having to spend $180 later if he needed more space), but had some trouble finding one.

Granted, he still got one the same week he started looking which is more than you can say about the Wii situation around here. And lack of availability in central PA probably isn't indicative of huge sales or widespread shortages. Are they still limited edition items or was that just the black paintjob?

I tried looking for one this past weekend. Looked and called everywhere. No one has them. Absolutely no one. When asked when the next batch would arrive, no one knew that either.

[atariv8]

Home is like Second Life to me, I really don't see the purpose. Maybe my sons will be interested in something like that when they get older but I'd rather them be working in a motion design, editing, art, sound design or 3D program if they want to do something with their extra time on the computer. And if they want to meet people, go outside or, if they can't, go to Evil Avatar! Wait a minute, Evil Avatar @ Home...I've changed my mind!

[Heretic Machine]

Home is like Second Life to me, I really don't see the purpose. Maybe my sons will be interested in something like that when they get older but I'd rather them be working in a motion design, editing, art, sound design or 3D program if they want to do something with their extra time on the computer.

I'm sure you would. Why aren't you doing any of those things right now? Come to think of it, why do you play video games at all if you think that spare time MUST be spent on productivity?

[Johan]

...why do you play video games at all if you think that spare time MUST be spent on productivity?

Video games ARE productive! :) It's brain training! Visual acuity development! Reaction time improvements!

/someone help me out here...

[beefyjr]

I saw a few Elites in a local Walmart last weekend. I still have yet to see a Wii in the wild, though.

[bgivnin]

Video games ARE productive! :) It's brain training! Visual acuity development! Reaction time improvements!

/someone help me out here...

I can agree with that! On Monday night I was pitching on my softball team and this guy hit the ball really hard, really fast, right at my face. In a split second, I dropped to the ground as it zinged over my head and I could literally see the threads and hear the whizzing sound as the ball passed me by.

My wife then quipped "you sure have fast reflexes!" and I replied back "it's all those video games!" :)

[Johan]

My wife then quipped "you sure have fast reflexes!" and I replied back "it's all those video games!" :)

I'm very glad she didn't say something like "damn, it missed!" :)

[Psykoboy2]

From all I can tell on the Elite's, they had a more limited first run than the 360 did when it was released. Most Gamestops/EBs here in town got about 3 or 4 units, saying they wouldn't be getting any more till about mid-May.

[Morratut]

I agree with Mr Moore. I don't see the point of Home either. I don't want to move a 3d avatar around in a 3d virtual world to get to a 3d arcade cabinet in my house. Only then can I play it. It reminds me of SIMS,mmo's and Second Life :rolleyes:

I'd just rather choose a game by pressing a button within a blade.

[Heretic Machine]

I agree with Mr Moore. I don't see the point of Home either. I don't want to move a 3d avatar around in a 3d virtual world to get to a 3d arcade cabinet in my house. Only then can I play it. It reminds me of SIMS,mmo's and Second Life :rolleyes:

I'd just rather choose a game by pressing a button within a blade.

Maybe you do prefer to get straight down to business. But things like Home have been highly successful in the past, so it is something that people want. Microsoft is just pissed off that they didn't dedicate any resources to developing a similar application. I mean don't get me wrong, Sony and Nintendo bullshit about stuff when their competition one-ups them too, but there is no reason to treat Moore's comment as anything but FUD. His company fucked up, now they're trying to save face.

Doesn't really matter, Home isn't going to make much of a dent in the big picture.

[51|RandoM]

Home will appeal to people for some of the same reasons they flock to myspace. I find it to be mildly interesting, something I at least want to check out. I might not "get it" any more than I get "gamerscore", but I'm not the only enduser.

At the end of the day, if you don't like Home, don't bother with it. The same functionality will be available via the XMB so you can pick whichever method you want.

The naysayers don't seem to realize that, though. Not sure why...

On the other hand, maybe they should've asked Peter Moore if they'd also looked into the idea of building a reliable console and decided that like Home, that too was something their customers didn't want. We're getting multi-pronged FUD attacks on Home as it nears release, lol.

[Klade]

Sorry but didn't Microsoft say exactly the same thing about the Wiimote?

Oh yeah we thought of using motion sensitive controllers and ultimately decided it just wasn't a good way to go.................

[Gorvi]

Home could be interesting, it could be a complete waste of time. Either way, I'll still give it a try, it's not like you have to pay for it or anything.
/em predicts retarded comments that Home costs $600.

[bapenguin]

Sorry but didn't Microsoft say exactly the same thing about the Wiimote?

Oh yeah we thought of using motion sensitive controllers and ultimately decided it just wasn't a good way to go.................

No, that was the SIXAXIS. And they actually DID release a product that was the exact same thing as the sixaxis for the PC year ago.

[Bone]

You know he's right- the whole virtual reality concept was played out in 1995, when people realized it took just as long to walk around a "virtual" mall as it did a real one. The more efficient use of the Internet proved to be simple clickable interfaces, with the least amount of clicks to achieve a goal considered the holy grail.

To me, it's a lot more futuristic to quickly access features through buttons (or waving a wand, natch) than to approximate a physical location in which I still have to wait for my avatar to reach a destination. That said, there are lots of other things that have been considered novelties that turned out to be just what the public wanted. We'll see.

[LongStepMantis]

By now you think they would stop asking people questions about their competitors.
WTF do you think he's gonna say? That ANYTHING Sony or Nintendo did/is doing/will do is any good? Yea right.
It's like walking up to the CEO of Pepsi and asking him if he likes Coke. Gee, wonder what he'll say...

Same goes for asking someone from Sony or Nintendo about Xbox. You're not gonna get unbiased opinions. period.

[PsychoticVile]

As far as I know they made an initial run of 100,000 Elites and most major retailers are sold out.

[Heretic Machine]

You know he's right- the whole virtual reality concept was played out in 1995, when people realized it took just as long to walk around a "virtual" mall as it did a real one. The more efficient use of the Internet proved to be simple clickable interfaces, with the least amount of clicks to achieve a goal considered the holy grail.

To me, it's a lot more futuristic to quickly access features through buttons (or waving a wand, natch) than to approximate a physical location in which I still have to wait for my avatar to reach a destination. That said, there are lots of other things that have been considered novelties that turned out to be just what the public wanted. We'll see.

From what I understand, Home's primary appeal is not to be a user interface for your PS3. It is a social environment, like a MOO/MUCK. People enjoy socializing if you give them some freedom to play around as they do it.

[MaiXu]

Peter Moore: "We totally thought of that first, but the idea sucks, and we did something so totally better! Seriously!"

*cough*Jackass*cough*

Yeah, because there's no way they could have actually protoyped that and realized that is DID suck. No, he's obviously lying.

Seriously. I don't want my console's online component to be a second-rate Second Life, where I have to naviagte some clumsy avatar around some virtual environment just to get simple things done. A few menus and buttons are all I want, because the whole thing is, after all, meant to be a springboard into the game you wanna play. I don't wanna play my interface.

[Zaro]

Only the future will tell if people want Home not Peter Moore.
I'm sure Sony is able to make it interresting for a lot of people.

[Ozymandias]

Peter Moore: "We totally thought of that first, but the idea sucks, and we did something so totally better! Seriously!"

*cough*Jackass*cough*

Whether or not you like how he answered the question, I can tell you the facts Peter stated are true. I even have old specs on my desk I dug up a few weeks ago to review.

And his point about our investigations into the space leading us in the direction we took are also very true. Mark my words - Home will release, and some subset of people will enjoy using it as a chat room, and occasionally getting into games. But the XMB media bar will be the primary tool most users use to play.

[Ozymandias]

I tried looking for one this past weekend. Looked and called everywhere. No one has them. Absolutely no one. When asked when the next batch would arrive, no one knew that either.

I understand this weekend may be a good time to look.

[bapenguin]

Whether or not you like how he answered the question, I can tell you the facts Peter stated are true. I even have old specs on my desk I dug up a few weeks ago to review.

And his point about our investigations into the space leading us in the direction we took are also very true. Mark my words - Home will release, and some subset of people will enjoy using it as a chat room, and occasionally getting into games. But the XMB media bar will be the primary tool most users use to play.

I know a few members of our site were actually on the project.

[silv]

Home is utterly un-interesting to me. Then again, I do not have a myspace profile, or facebook profile, or any of that type of thing. So I'm probably not the target demographic.

2nd, Wii's are actually *in supply* in the philly area here. Elite's are not anywhere to be found. Go figure?

[Yeti2005]

Home has a lot of potential and I'm looking forward to checking it out on my buddy's PS3. I just hope the 64 person limit it just for the Beta though cause that sort of defeats the purpose.

[Gorvi]

Whether or not you like how he answered the question, I can tell you the facts Peter stated are true. I even have old specs on my desk I dug up a few weeks ago to review.

And his point about our investigations into the space leading us in the direction we took are also very true. Mark my words - Home will release, and some subset of people will enjoy using it as a chat room, and occasionally getting into games. But the XMB media bar will be the primary tool most users use to play.
It comes off as arrogant though the way that he answered. Saying "It's not a direction we fell we want to go in." would have been a better answer.

I do agree, though, that the majority of people will still use the XMB for most functions, but that's mostly because they'll be primarily playing single player games. I can't see the 64 person limit, though, working in any way other than a guild or clan style format, and that's where I think they're hoping people go to access and join multiplayer games with their friends. Of course, they'll need to have some way for people to use it who aren't a member of a group, probably random public "servers", but it could still work fine.

Like I said earlier though, any real judgement on it is really going to have to be reserved until it's actually out there in the wild and we can actually mess with it and see how it works.

[motor]

Whether or not you like how he answered the question, I can tell you the facts Peter stated are true. I even have old specs on my desk I dug up a few weeks ago to review.

It's true Microsoft worked on a project very close to Home, but the actual facts about why they closed it down are much more complicated then he stated. And they were no where near a prototype, it was all just a bunch of ideas. The project was killed right when they were starting to write the engine. So any idea that they prototyped it and didn't like it is ridiculous.

As for Home's viability, it depends a lot on how developers and users integrate it. There are two ways in which Home could become huge:

1) When the PS3 price comes down it could become Myspace 2.0 which would be huge.
2) Home could become a very easy API for game devlopers to add persistent MMO-like lobbies to their games which could become a huge differentiator for the PS3.

It's hard to predict how likely either of those two things are (I think good developer support can make #2 pretty likely, but Sony isn't known for that), but business is about risk, cost and potential reward. I think it's worth investing several millions of dollars on the chance you'll win of this front, because if you do, it will be extremely difficult for your competitor to catch up.

[CaptStu]

I understand this weekend may be a good time to look.

Thanks, but MS graciously added an extra year to my 360's warranty for no apparent reason at all, so it's being fixed. I will be getting the larger hard drive upon its return though.

Question for you: When will ABC be added to the Marketplace? I believe you have NBC and CBS, but no ABC. I'm almost ashamed to admit this, but the wife is a huge Grey's Anatomy fan, and misses episodes quite a bit. Downloads would be nice for her.

[Telefrog]

1) When the PS3 price comes down it could become Myspace 2.0 which would be huge.

This would be exactly the reason I would never want to be a part of the Home experience. MySpace makes me want to kill people.

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

1) When the PS3 price comes down it could become Myspace 2.0 which would be huge.
2) Home could become a very easy API for game devlopers to add persistent MMO-like lobbies to their games which could become a huge differentiator for the PS3.
1) A Myspace for hardcore gaming nerds? How attractive. This very idea will keep more people away than it drives toward Home. Not to mention that Sony has to compete with Myspace for costs, and Myspace access can be done from any computer, rather than from the most expensive gaming console in existence. The costs of policing the environment will quickly outgrow the budget.

2) Opening up the API also lets in hacking, much tighter general security will be needed especially if online transactions are being made. The costs of that are not trivial, yet the service is free?

I simply don't see where they will make enough money to keep the system viable. Advertising might be part of it, but there will need to be a great deal of it, otherwise it becomes a money pit. Look at Vanguard; Sony isn't even keeping the staff since they took over the project and that game had a purchase price and monthly fee's, and it is barely worth keeping running.

This is an MMO with no entry fee, no monthly fee's, advertising, and a reason to do what? Leave. You go there so you can go somewhere else, or chat with randomly selected people in 64 person instances of a 5 million person potential. I would want to see it working under real life stress; Beta won't even touch what it will be like once everyone and their PS3 sign on for "free".

[motor]

2) Opening up the API also lets in hacking, much tighter general security will be needed especially if online transactions are being made. The costs of that are not trivial, yet the service is free?


I said for developers (meaning game developers), not the general public.

[Butters66]

Peter Moore: "We totally thought of that first, but the idea sucks, and we did something so totally better! Seriously!"

*cough*Jackass*cough*

They did think of it first. It was called Microsoft Bob. They idea sucked then, and it sucks now.

Do you really want to play the sims to download a movie? Really? This is just like voice recognition. It sounds cool and futuristic, but you really are much slower. Who wants to talk to a PC all day? There is a reason a keyboard and mouse are still our input devices, and until somebody invents a jack to plug your brain directly in, they still will. And we like it!

/stops being an elderly gentleman waving his cane.

[Ozymandias]

Thanks, but MS graciously added an extra year to my 360's warranty for no apparent reason at all, so it's being fixed. I will be getting the larger hard drive upon its return though.

Question for you: When will ABC be added to the Marketplace? I believe you have NBC and CBS, but no ABC. I'm almost ashamed to admit this, but the wife is a huge Grey's Anatomy fan, and misses episodes quite a bit. Downloads would be nice for her.

Sorry, but I don't have much insight into specific properties coming to Marketplace. :(

[CaptStu]

Sorry, but I don't have much insight into specific properties coming to Marketplace. :(

Oh well. Thanks anyway.

[Arthen]

They did think of it first. It was called Microsoft Bob. They idea sucked then, and it sucks now.

Do you really want to play the sims to download a movie? Really? This is just like voice recognition. It sounds cool and futuristic, but you really are much slower. Who wants to talk to a PC all day? There is a reason a keyboard and mouse are still our input devices, and until somebody invents a jack to plug your brain directly in, they still will. And we like it!

/stops being an elderly gentleman waving his cane.


Scotty picks up the mouse

"computer.... oh computer"

[score]

Sorry but didn't Microsoft say exactly the same thing about the Wiimote?

Oh yeah we thought of using motion sensitive controllers and ultimately decided it just wasn't a good way to go.................

I also recall a little something about "wireless controllers? who wants those?" around the time of the wavebirds release...

hehe... this stuffs almost an endorsement of how good it'll be.

[fitbabits]

Would it be bad if I edited the title of this thread to "Peter Moore was Having a Good Day (Until Bungie Ruined It)"?

[Johan]

Would it be bad if I edited the title of this thread to "Peter Moore was Having a Good Day (Until Bungie Ruined It)"?

It's Halo. They could coat the seats of Halo fans with razor blades and salt, and people would scream for a chance to sit in order to play! :D

[Guy Mariano]

You can use the XMB for all the major functions and never have to use Home. Haters fail to grasp that concept.

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

I said for developers (meaning game developers), not the general public.
Microsoft's developers are in the general public with XNA. Sony can try to do the same, or they can limit the extent to which their access is granted. The more restricted the access, the less powerful the idea.

Plus, no developers ever quit their jobs nor sell knowledge to other sources, and documentation is never copied. Once the door is opened all you can hope for is that your signed documents were actually signed, and have validity in a worldwide marketplace.

Yours is a partial solution that leads to greater risk.

[Trazzlo the Magnificant]

You can use the XMB for all the major functions and never have to use Home. Haters fail to grasp that concept.
Then why waste time on Home? Its fluff, even by the Lovers group criteria.

Edit: You know, that got me thinking. It comes down to which way you want system development to go. Sony is banking on Home, and MS on XNA. Home is a pretty front end that gets you advertising or access to the games your really want to play. XNA lets creative people build more content and opens up development to the hobbyist.

If you had to pick one or the other due to time/budget constraints, for myself the choice is very easy. I would rather that MS spent the time and energy on a project like XNA than Home.

[mister_slim]

Peter Moore: "We totally thought of that first, but the idea sucks, and we did something so totally better! Seriously!"
Man, is Microsoft doing the anti-Wiimote spin again? I suppose it just sounds the same. I bet MS has an internal PR template program, MS PR Tool 2007 or something.

[atariv8]

I'm sure you would. Why aren't you doing any of those things right now? Come to think of it, why do you play video games at all if you think that spare time MUST be spent on productivity?

Whoops, you must be a Second Lifer, sorry if I stepped on any toes. My statement meant that if my kids are on Second Life or dolling around in fake 3D land they're not playing games, so why not do something else. Hell I'd rather them burn up time playing video games than being productive, even if someone thinks making films or music is productivity. I personally, the key word here, get nothing out of building a life in a virtual world. I guess it's the same reason I don't play Sims games. After about the 3rd day of playing the Sims (sleep, get paper, burn breakfast, go to work, try to play games, piss self, sleep, repeat), I was like, "wait a minute what am I doing?" I guess it's just easier to jump in a forum piss off Perigon and jump off. :D

[Greymane]

The only thing that makes Second Life at all interesting is that it's a contained toolset for creating objects and their semantic meanings - in some respects, it has that XNA-esque aspect to it. Admittedly, Second Life's general implementation is shoddy - the fundamental idea is very interesting, though. It's essentially a means of transposing ideas into a virtual medium - not too dissimilar to any other toolset necessarily, but it's all in one neat package so you can have creation and use occur in the same space.

Arguably, that isn't very different from what a computer represents as is; you get a computer and learn C (Or C++, or Java, or whatever language floats your boat) and you can solve any computable problem. All Second Life brings is that it accelerates the process of transposing ideas, at the cost of having those ideas only have meaning within the context of Second Life (and that which Second Life can inherently interact with).

From everything I've seen of Home however, there is no such toolset attached; if Home ends up nothing more than a virtual chatroom - with some vaguely defined abilities to put objects in your little personalized room - it's just a novelty item. It does nothing in that light to provide for user creativity or ingenuity, and it does nothing to accelerate human thought - in short, it would be utterly useless save as a means of socializing.

[Johan]

in short, it would be utterly useless save as a means of socializing.

Hence, I am extremely excited for XNA, but not at all for Home!