Black & White Gone Alpha

[Evil Avatar]

Lionhead has announced (http://www.lionhead.com/bw2/bwalpha.html) that their upcoming (2006?) God game, Black & White 2, has entered Alpha stage.

So, now developers announce that their game is 'in the beginning stages of being complete, but not even in a fully playable state'???

[Phades]

Now that's just odd.

[if76]

Well I'd rather hear that a game is in alpha than "we're working on it" or "it'll ship when it's ready"

[Heretic Machine]

I'd rather hear, "We fired the lead developer and he's been forbidden by law from ever making games again."

[Phades]

I'd rather hear, "We fired the lead developer and he's been forbidden by law from ever making games again."

Yeah, because Peter has contributed absolutely nothing to gaming!

Sorry that you didn't care for his last couple games, how about you just stop buying them instead of saying something so stupid?

[GrinR]

Give Me More Tribes 2 Screenshots!!!

[eatme]

Play the hype game or sell 10 copies.

You're giving them coverage for saying this, so it's obviously working.

[sTubbs]

I like hearing when games have gone alpha, as it means the developers have a game that can be played through from start to finish, albeit in an incomplete state.

[DeadPixel]

Is this game about the Rodney King riots?

[Klade]

MMOs have been announcing pre-alpha, alpha and beta stages for years now. Its nice to hear that an alpha build is indevelopment for a game as it gives you an idea that progress is being made. I don't know if it needs a lot of coverage but fans should certainly take notice.

[johnperkins21]

This just in. A 10 year old in Michigan has just begun the design doc for his next great game for the PS4, Alpha Omega SuperTron: Revenge. The game is expected to be released in the fall of 2012.

Yeah, I think releasing news of an Alpha is a little too much. But then again, who didn't love reading Carmack and Romero's .plan files that described early development of Quake?

[Evil Avatar]

You're giving them coverage for saying this, so it's obviously working.

It fell into the "Point and Laugh" category more than the "Gaming News" category. So, naturally... I couldn't resist.

[Evil Avatar]

Yeah, I think releasing news of an Alpha is a little too much. But then again, who didn't love reading Carmack and Romero's .plan files that described early development of Quake?

Carmack and Romero's previous title changed the face of video gaming forever... Lionhead's last title is considered by most to be a complete and total flop. Carmack IS a gaming god, Peter is just a wannabe living off his old glories.

[Royal Fool]

Call me stupid but I had thought this game was in alpha stage a long time ago... what were all those screenshots and previews for then? We saw concept screenshots using the B&W engine at E3 2002, and in early 2003 we saw the new engine with cool creatures and landscapes...

[sTubbs]

Call me stupid but I had thought this game was in alpha stage a long time ago... what were all those screenshots and previews for then? We saw concept screenshots using the B&W engine at E3 2002, and in early 2003 we saw the new engine with cool creatures and landscapes...

Alpha means that the game can be played through from start to finish, but not every texture, animation, sound effect, etc has been added. When everything is added, and no more content is left to put in, the game enters Beta stage, where it is thoroughly tested and any found bugs are fixed [although we all know this is rarely done to the point that it should be]. Once testing is completed and the game is approved, it has gone Gold.

[I am sure many people already know this, I just thought I should lay it out anyways.]

[B_Money]

Is this game about the Rodney King riots?

No, it's about Michael Jackson. Original title "Am I black or white?"

[Heretic Machine]

Yeah, because Peter has contributed absolutely nothing to gaming!

Sorry that you didn't care for his last couple games, how about you just stop buying them instead of saying something so stupid?

He hasn't even been involved with a decent game since Dungeon Keeper II, and he's now become almost as bad as a certin Sony executive who can't keep his mouth shut. So why don't you just set a good example for them, and shut the fuck up?

[Chandler]

Give Me More Tribes 2 Screenshots!!!
http://images.google.com/images?q=tribes%202&hl=en&hs=xIN&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=N&tab=wi

[Pancake]

Here’s a dialog my friend and I just had on this comment:

Carmack and Romero's previous title changed the face of video gaming forever... Lionhead's last title is considered by most to be a complete and total flop. Carmack IS a gaming god, Peter is just a wannabe living off his old glories.

Todd: Fable may have flopped…but that certainly doesn’t mean he's a bad designer. And Carmack and Romero? Gods? Let’s not forget the brilliant originality that was Doom 3…and…well what was Romero’s last game?

Andrew: Something shitty for the pocket PC.

Andrew: Didn’t Peter make Magic Carpet and Dungeon Keeper?

Todd: Yeah

Andrew: Evil Avatar is an Evil Avatard.

Todd: I hate the hate on Evil Avatar now…it’s not really gaming with an attitude anymore; it’s basically the equivalent of getting your gaming news from a drunk guy at a football game.

Andrew: Just a bunch of lame ass fan boys who think that aggregating and plagiarizing RSS feeds makes them knowledgeable

I registered an account just to post this. I’ve been a loyal reader for a long time, but today is the last day I’ll ever come back to your site again, it’s removed from your favorites after I hit reply.

It doesn’t really have to do with your comment slamming a great designer (I seem to recall Peter going insofar as apologizing for hyping Fable…which might I add is something a Sony exec would NEVER do; he’s just a designer excited about his work), but more to do with the inane trolling flooding from your forum into your news posts. Congratulations, your site has turned into the FoxNews on video gaming websites.

Cya.

[Royal Fool]

Damn, this guy's hardcore.

[Draft]

Hahaha. This thread is taking a turn for the excellent.

[Draft]

Andrew: Evil Avatar is an Evil Avatard.
oh that andrew.

[Murmillo]

oh no.. somebody posts their views on two developers and now we've turned into a FoxNews ..
lol, I love stupid people who register to complain.

[Draft]

It doesn’t really have to do with your comment slamming a great designer (I seem to recall Peter going insofar as apologizing for hyping Fable…which might I add is something a Sony exec would NEVER do; he’s just a designer excited about his work), Good point. What a stand up guy for admitting Fable kind of stunk after he already got my $50 and I could verify for myself it was a Zelda clone without any of the charm or the fun. It did have farts though. Oh man, the farts.

[BlueAlias]

Um....Yeah, hi. This isn't Blue. I used to come here a lot because I hate this site but I never registered because I couldn't figure out how until now. By the way, this isn't Blue.

I just wanted to say how much I hate this site that I come to all the time. Yeah. Oh! Here's a conversation I had with a friend of mine the other day:

Me (not Blue): I used to like this site, but now I hate it.

Friend: Yeah, me too.

Me: Want to get a sandwich?

Friend: Yeah, okay.

See what I'm trying to say? It's like I'm reading the Bill O'Rilley version of gaming news. Or should I say the Bill O'Rilleytard news. OH! BURNED!!!

I hate this site. I have a sandwich. Tard.

[yutt]

After his first disillusioning experience with sardonic comments on an online forum, Todd (a.k.a "Pancake"), quits the Internet. He was later seen sobbing outside of EB Games, while softly mumbling, "I always thought those guys were hooked in with Microsoft big time."

[Murmillo]

Carmack and Romero's previous title changed the face of video gaming forever... Lionhead's last title is considered by most to be a complete and total flop. Carmack IS a gaming god, Peter is just a wannabe living off his old glories.

I would say at one time, Carmack, Romero AND Peter changed video games forever. Carmack and Romero shaped and changed our views on FPS, while peter shaped and changed our views on "God" games. But back in the late 80's early 90's they were great developers.
But Romero had a run it with crack and made us all his bitches :rolleyes:
Carmack decided we needed to be blessed with 20x versions of Doom/Quake for quite a while: ok ok.. here is my new idea for Doom IV .. Doom remade with you playing as a FEMALE solider.. WITH HUGE BREASTS!!!!"
and Peter hasn't had much luck with his god games... since Dungeon Keeper.

Each were great but can't seem to capture the magic that make people want to play their games anymore, any game they make these days is just an old tired flopped rehash of games we've already played or just really great examples of NOT how to make a game (or advertise one).

Bill (creator of Sims/'Spore') now there is a true visionary....

[TrackZero]

I'd rather hear, "We fired the lead developer and he's been forbidden by law from ever making games again."

Wow. Harsh. Personally I loved B&W and wasted a good 60-80 hours playing it. About the same with Fable.

I'll immediately admit though, Peter doesn't live up to what he dreams. I think he's got a case of foot-in-mouth syndrome. But I still enjoy titles that he works on.

[TrackZero]

After his first disillusioning experience with sardonic comments on an online forum, Todd (a.k.a "Pancake"), quits the Internet. He was later seen sobbing outside of EB Games, while softly mumbling, "I always thought those guys were hooked in with Microsoft big time."

I just laughed so hard I cried. Thanks for that.

[TrackZero]

oh that andrew.

Great, someone let my real name out.

[Redline]

I don't see the problem here. Slow news day?

[51|RandoM]

I've already played populous too much, I don't need it with new graphics and different names.

Most of the people who are known as "designers" in this industry seem to be very narrowly focused on one game archetype, and just rehash it over and over and over again, instead of using their abilities on a different one. Sid Meier(4x type), Peter Molyneux(god type), John Carmack(fps type), etc.

Somebody just make a new version of master of magic for me that doesn't suck(like moo2 ended up sucking)and we can forget about these "designers".

Looking at this post, I guess I'm just sour grapes, because the games I want rehashed over and over again(like MoM), don't get that treatment. Two civs were enough for me, two populous were enough, two quakes were enough, I'm detecting a pattern here...

[Bushido]

Cya.
Last edited by Pancake : Today at 04:59 PM. Reason: A spelling error, seriously, I'm removing Evil Avatar from my favorites right...NOW


Can i have your GOlds before you quit?

[Montgomery_Python]

Sweet! The sequel to the shittiest game of the last decade has gone alpha! Where's the bunker again?

[Mac]

Hahaha. This thread is taking a turn for the excellent.

Hahaha, I absolutely agree.

[eatme]

It fell into the "Point and Laugh" category more than the "Gaming News" category. So, naturally... I couldn't resist.

Yeah, but it's Molyneux, and he's a whore for every bit he can get. :) If he could guarantee "point and laugh" coverage for the rest of his life, he'd go for it. Hmm, he may be studying Michael Jackson's technique right now....

[Redline]

If any of you wastes of biological matter can say you've worked on Populous, Dungeon Keeper, Magic Carpet, Sydicate then you have my respect.

Oh wait, none of you can. Shut the fuck up morons.

[Kentor]

Alpha means that the game can be played through from start to finish, but not every texture, animation, sound effect, etc has been added. When everything is added, and no more content is left to put in, the game enters Beta stage, where it is thoroughly tested and any found bugs are fixed [although we all know this is rarely done to the point that it should be]. Once testing is completed and the game is approved, it has gone Gold.

[I am sure many people already know this, I just thought I should lay it out anyways.]
Somewhat of a tangent, but from the code side of things, the alpha phase also should accompany a feature freeze, however, it seems a lot of game company's like to skip that vital point hence the massive number of bugs which propagate into beta. You'll note a vast majority of game developers are still adding features well into alpha and even during the beta phase, which is ridiculous. What most game company's call an alpha is usually just a technical preview. When a typical software company states it has reached alpha, they usually mean that the software in question has all the final features implemented (though not necessarily completely) and no more features will be added, hence the term feature freeze. The alpha phase is used for internal testing where the only changes allowed to the code base are feature completion of not critical aspects and bug fixes. When a game company states it has reached alpha, they usually mean a game is playable, but will still add major features throughout alpha and even well into beta in some cases. Alpha releases are distributed internally to users and testers, as well as to close partners.

The beta phase begins when all features are finished and the product is deemed stable. Beta releases are then distributed to beta testers that produce feedback such as minor changes and bug reports. When the product is deemed fully functional, incorporating all the necessary changes discovered in beta, the release candidate phase (or gamma phase) begins.

The release candidate phase is accompanied by code freeze, no additional changes will be made to the code base unless major or fatal bugs are discovered. When a release candidate is deemed production worthy it is called a gold or release version (or in Microsoft speak a RTM release).

A lot of PC game company's do not code freeze until the last second... some do not even feature freeze until the product is gold. Hence you'll see a lot of day one patches, and stabilization patches in the first month.

[Heretic Machine]

If any of you wastes of biological matter can say you've worked on Populous, Dungeon Keeper, Magic Carpet, Sydicate then you have my respect.

Oh wait, none of you can. Shut the fuck up morons.

I also didn't work on the holocaust or run a country into the ground in a mindless war, but lemme tell you, Hitler was teh sux. What was that I just said? Oh yeah, I voiced my opinion.

[Draft]

If any of you wastes of biological matter can say you've worked on Populous, Dungeon Keeper, Magic Carpet, Sydicate then you have my respect.

Oh wait, none of you can. Shut the fuck up morons.
Yeah, but I didn't work on those POS games Black and White or Fable, so that's got to be good for something.

[Taco]

What's with the one post haters. Molyneaux, or whatever, have that much of a harcore following? Someone leak this post on another boad?

Its stuff like this that makes me want to come here. Who wants sterile, opinionless news? Shmucks.

[bapenguin]

Last edited by Pancake : Yesterday at 08:59 PM. Reason: A spelling error, seriously, I'm removing Evil Avatar from my favorites right...NOW

The really funny thing about this post is...he logged back on 45 minutes later.

[MosBen]

Games have been announcing Alpha status for as long as I can remember. If you think this is new, you're either really young or just haven't paid much attention to gaming news in the past. I'm not saying either of those are bad things, just letting you know this isn't even remotely a new thing.

And for the record I like hearing when games go alpha, and then beta. It means they have milestones in the development cycle and they're meeting them.

And as always, yeah, the last couple games Peter made haven't lived up to his greatness, but seriously, people that think he sucks/makes shit games/should be banned from the industry/etc., are just stupid. The man's made some of the great games in the history of gaming. Again, my reaction to people hating on Peter is just that they're young kids that have only been gaming for a few years.

[Taco]

The same thinking could be applied to Romero...

[Heretic Machine]

And as always, yeah, the last couple games Peter made haven't lived up to his greatness, but seriously, people that think he sucks/makes shit games/should be banned from the industry/etc., are just stupid. The man's made some of the great games in the history of gaming. Again, my reaction to people hating on Peter is just that they're young kids that have only been gaming for a few years.

His days of greatness are in the past. Just because he used to make good games, doesn't mean he has the ability to make them now. Heck, he hasn't made anything good since Bullfrog disapeared, all of the talent could of been with those guys rather than him for all we know. The point is, he's not making good games now, the games he makes now are mediocre at best.

[Madguy]

Carmack and Romero's previous title changed the face of video gaming forever... Lionhead's last title is considered by most to be a complete and total flop. Carmack IS a gaming god, Peter is just a wannabe living off his old glories.

Yeah, little late in the game, but I figured I'd register just to post on this too...

Evil, you and the haters truly make me sick to my stomach. As an amateur developer (working on changing that status, still in college), it pains me to know that my audience may be comprised in part of such whiny hateful sorts.

First off, Fable is certainly NOT considered by "most" to be a complete and total flop, and it's baffling you'd make that statement. That only seems to be the concensus of a vocal minority hanging around forums such as these. When you spend too much time in a close-knit little group such as this, I suppose one tends to not see the truth of matters at times.. From what I hear there are parts of New York in which people believe Woody Allen movies are all big hits and everyone sees them. Hell Fable has an average user rating of 8.3 on gamerankings and 8.8 on gamespot, my goodness how horrible, a complete bomb of a game. Friends of mine enjoyed the hell out of it, regardless of hype. Similar deal for B&W, which were it as shitty as you'd like the world to believe based on your personal distaste, probably wouldn't have sold half as many expansion packs as it did..

Peter's grand ideas, unique may not always be able to completely match up to the final product, but at least he's got grand, unique ideas in an industry where true innovation is often frowned upon, and has been able to consistently turn them into interesting gameplay experiences. Oh but wait, he hyped up his games to be more than they turned out to be, that's an unforgivable crime, right? I can just imagine you guys reading previews and bouncing around the room in passion, then bawling your eyes out when the game wasn't all you expected. I'm guessing that description isn't too far off... whatever, the fact of the matter is that hype should not play such a large role in your ultimate enjoyment of a game. As someone stated earlier, Peter actually issued an APOLOGY for hyping the game so much, what more do you want from the guy, his head on a platter? Personally I wish he hadn't issued that apology, as it obviously still hasn't worked much in his favor. He's just an enthusiastic guy who can't resist sharing his stuff a bit early, he didn't murder your families.

Anyways, the lack of respect for developers around here is quite disheartening. But just to be clear, from an outsider's perspective, you really do come off like rather pathetic, whiny, and intolerant supernerds. Not saying you ARE, just that's how you come off. Don't even know why I put any effort into posting this.

[Taco]

Hah, another one. Shades of the Homeworld crazies.

Who knew a guy who hasn't done anything over the last decade but promise lies would have such a cult.

[bapenguin]

...
Anyways, the lack of respect for developers around here is quite disheartening. ..

I don't think anybody has a lack of respect. A lot of the developers are doing it to themselves by promising, promising and not delivering. I think that's what most people here are complaining about. The game by itself may stand on it's own, but the game with it's pre-hype doesn't measure up. And that's the difference.

[Mac]

If any of you wastes of biological matter can say you've worked on Populous, Dungeon Keeper, Magic Carpet, Sydicate then you have my respect.

Oh wait, none of you can. Shut the fuck up morons.

You're no better than them now by lashing out. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion, no matter how skewed, stupid, or wrong it may be. I hardly think anyone who's already adept at giving their opinions on things such as this will listen to your decree of 'shut the fuck up morons' to boot.

[Mac]

Anyways, the lack of respect for developers around here is quite disheartening.

I'm not trying to come off as a prick at all, but I don't understand why inherent respect for a game developer is expected. I'd expect as much for a member of the armed forces or perhaps a firefighter for risking their lives daily to help us, but a game developer?

I totally understand where you're coming from as far as having common-decency on the boards here concerning someone else's work, but I think respect might be the wrong word.

But just to be clear, from an outsider's perspective, you really do come off like rather pathetic, whiny, and intolerant supernerds. Not saying you ARE, just that's how you come off. Don't even know why I put any effort into posting this.

To an extent, I agree. I love this website, love most of the members, and love the community, which is why I visit the site like it's my job. However, there are some members that I have noticed riding their high horse of invulnerability around quite often.

[Madguy]

Who knew a guy who hasn't done anything over the last decade but promise lies would have such a cult.

Except for the fact that he's done quite a bit over the past decade which a large number of people found highly enjoyable and unique, the proof is all over the internet outside of this site if you look for it.

I'm not sure why failing to completely deliver on hype should inspire such animosity. I mean really think about it... he's a name and part of his job is to create hype, to build interest in a product. He can't fully predict what's going to ultimately end up in the game and what isn't. He didn't "lie" to you or intentionally try to f-ck you over. The only way he could avoid accidentally "lying" is by being ultra-conservative in pointing out the game's intended features, which probably wouldn't garner much interest on the part of gamers. I suppose the only real solution would be to wait until the game reached "feature lock" before doing any hype, which is none too practical from a business perspective.

So not everything he stated (I guarantee he didn't actually "promise" anything) made it to the game... Big. Deal. Is this that much of a "thing" to anyone? Because let's be honest, it really shouldn't be. And how many games completely live up to the hype anyways? A tiny, tiny percentage. No reason to single out one "shitty" developer. I mean yeah let's disregard all the thousands of hours of hard work he's put into all his stuff and call him a shithead because he hyped up a game or two...

[QueQueg]

Everyone's entitled to thier opinion, and here's mine: I still play B&W occasionally, when I'm not playing CoH or HL2. It's definately something of a niche game, for sure. The mechanic of training a creature by example is very intrigueing, and I think thats what keeps me coming back to it. I don't know how much credit Molyneux deserves for that, so... meh.

There, I presented my opinion without calling anyone a fucktard or asshat.

[Heretic Machine]

As an amateur developer (working on changing that status, still in college),

You and every other no-talent anime junky that drops out of computer science after their second year, if they make it that far.

[Mac]

You and every other no-talent anime junky that drops out of computer science after their second year, if they make it that far.

My God, man, did a misguided developer murder your family or something? What is with the ridiculous amount of hostility here?

[Madguy]

You and every other no-talent anime junky that drops out of computer science after their second year, if they make it that far.

Not only have I completed three years thus far at a pretty presigious school where it's, from what I've heard, the most-dropped major, I've also had one of my games, "AfterShocked!" on the Computer Gaming World CD, where, I really hate to boast because it's not in my nature but you forced me, they had this to say:

"perhaps the finest spiritual successor to the old LucasArts adventure games that has ever been released"

Owned in every possible way, back to your cave now. Oh yes, and I don't like anime.

[TrackZero]

To an extent, I agree. I love this website, love most of the members, and love the community, which is why I visit the site like it's my job. However, there are some members that I have noticed riding their high horse of invulnerability around quite often.

Oh, you mean I wasn't supposed to be riding this horse? Ah well, time to get some exercise and walk anyways. ;)

[yutt]

Do some people just not get this site? This isn't a place to give one another intellectual hand-jobs of mutual respect, at least not that I've noticed.

Titles like DOOM 3, with outrageous system requirements and piss-poor gameplay went further to kill PC gaming than any console system ever could (DOOM 3 was almost unanimously voted by Evil Avatar.com readers as "Worst Game of the Year)...
Carmack IS a gaming god, Peter is just a wannabe living off his old glories.
People are trying to get the lurking-fanboy-nutters to register and make that one crazy rant of a post that makes the thread interesting. If you don't enjoy the resulting conversations, and feel personally offended by what people are saying, well, this probably isn't the best place for you.

[RandomViolence]

Oh, you mean I wasn't supposed to be riding this horse? Ah well, time to get some exercise and walk anyways. ;)

My horse will kick your horse's ass. :D

Oh, and Molyneux sucks, Carmack sucks, Spector should be castrated for bastardizing Deus Ex with that sequel (but I still worship him), Kojima's a lunatic, Sid Meier's lazy, Cliffy B's gay, Miyamato's on drugs... Romero thankfully all but disappeared...

Let me know who I missed.

If anyone insults Tim Schafer though, it's on.

[Taco]

Tim Schafer can't have an orgasm unless he kills a dog. That just what I heard somewhere...

[RandomViolence]

Tim Schafer can't have an orgasm unless he kills a dog. That just what I heard somewhere...

FUCK YOU, BITCH! I collected every figment thingy in psychonauts. That was the best game mechanic ever, powering up by collecting glowing shit around a level. Let's see you come up with something better. If he needs to kill dogs to get off and come up with creative ideas like that, I'll donate an animal shelter myself.

Respect the genius.

[Draft]

Madguy, your game is pretty neat. I dig the art style. Was that on purpose, or can you just not draw ;)

However, you are wrong about "respecting" developers. Creating art is a noble goal. Selling it is a commercial one. If I buy a product that I'm not satisfied with, I have a right, nay, a responsibilty, to complain.

I don't care about a game's hype, I just care about good games. Fable was a crappy game. Psuedo action RPG with shitty combat and lots of fetch quests. I'm pissed because I spent $50 on that POS because it was supposed to be the "next big thing." Peter Moleneuwhal;kjsdf whatever does not get a free ride because he was thinking outside the box or gleaming the cube or shifting paradigms. His first responsibility to me as a consumer is to deliver an entertaining product, and in that respect he failed.

[eatme]

Bullshit. His game was very entertaining to many people (for one, I quite enjoyed it; I know others who did as well). His job is not to guarantee that his game entertains everyone. He made a game that made a lot of people happy.

Whose job is it to make sure you enjoy it? Two people have that responsibility. One, the reviewers: they must present you with the information you need to make your decision. Second, of course, is you. If you weren't aware enough of the game and the market to properly make a decision, well, that's the way it goes.

I notice you're level 60 in WoW. I bought WoW, and thought it sucked. Does that make it a crappy game? No. Does that make Blizzard "irresponsible"? Again, no. It does mean I probably shouldn't have bought WoW. Whoops. We all fuck up from time to time.

[Draft]

I don't think anyone really enjoyed it. They just say so to be contrary. I mean, what did you like better? The asstastic button mashing combat? The super generic storyline? or maybe the uber l33t social interaction stuff? You know, how farts make people hold their noses, or flirting makes girls blush.

[Draft]

Whoops. We all fuck up from time to time.lollerskates. You're a real enlightened gaming pragmatist aren't ya.

[eatme]

I don't think anyone really enjoyed it. They just say so to be contrary. I mean, what did you like better? The asstastic button mashing combat? The super generic storyline? or maybe the uber l33t social interaction stuff? You know, how farts make people hold their noses, or flirting makes girls blush.

No, I loved the tedious, intellect-free level-grinding hour after hour. That, and the 15 minute walks to get where I wanted to go.